Luminous Landscape Forum
Raw & Post Processing, Printing => Printing: Printers, Papers and Inks => Topic started by: JRSmit on February 08, 2014, 12:24:04 pm
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I published a post on my blog: http://wp.me/p3e0fn-k1 in which I have written down the test I did to see if two alternatives (from Innova and Mediajet) to the now gone Ilford Gold Fibre Silk (IGFS) are indeed worthwhile alternatives. In short, my conclusion is: they are!
Would like to see other's experiences with alternatives to the so popular IGFS.
Addendum: the article is in Dutch but google translate should do a good job.
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Carson Bryata I actually like this more then the ilford
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Interesting, can you explain why?
Is it the surface or the quality of the image print?
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I too have switched to Canson Infinity Baryta Photographique. It's basically the same as IGFS but better packaged and less expensive. Lots of prior threads here on it.
Neil
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I switched to Canson Baryta Photographique a couple of years ago, It is a very similar paper, the base paper is more differrent than the surface.
Brian A
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I heartily agree with the recommendations about Canson Infinty Baryta Photographique - a magic paper and very good ICC profile from Canson too.
I also seem to recall several individuals making mention of the fact they used the Canson IBP ICC profile for the IGFS and it gave them better results than the profile from Ilford itself.
The two papers seem to print almost identically.
Tony Jay
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No experience with with now-gone Ilford, but I've made close to 1000 prints on the Canson Baryta from HP Z3200, Epson 4900 and Epson 9900 machines, since the Canson Baryta was introduced several years ago. While I do have custom ICC profiles for each of these printers, the canned Canson profiles were all pretty good. The Canson is a very nice paper and a decent dollar value. It does contain OBA compounds, as you'll be able to read here, but the prints I've had on display for a few years, in naturally lit environments, look fine (for what little that's worth). The Canson Baryta is my go-to paper for the "fine art poster" projects I do, all of which receive a laminate after Gator foam mounting. They look quite nice, honestly. But the Canson prints also look just fine under Museum glass with traditional framing also of course.
John Caldwell
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The Bonjet Atelier Fibre, Canson Baryta Photographique, Ilford Galerie Prestige GoldFibre Silk, MediaJet PhotoArt White Baryta and the Innova IFA69 FP Baryta Satin have identical spectral plots and the same 310 gsm weight. So it does not surprise me that the ICC profiles can be exchanged for them. I thought the Innova IFA69 paper was no longer in the Innova catalog, I shifted it to the Obsolete Inkjet Media list of SpectrumViz.
The big question remains which papers were depending on the Ilford Imaging coating facilities. If there was a second source for this paper then I would bet it was Innova, the company that introduced Fiber/Baryta inkjet paper types quite early.
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Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst
http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
January 2014, 600+ inkjet media white spectral plots.
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The Bonjet Atelier Fibre i have not had in my hands.
The Canson Baryta Photograpique i do have had, and to me however the top surface looks slightly different.
So i suspect the ink receptive coating is different.
Will see if i can get hold of a sample and add it to the test.
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When i add the Canson Baryta to the test i will also add the spectrum plots of Ernst's SpectrumViz to the article.
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Is it definitely confirmed,that Ilford GFS ,is no longer in production?
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Has anyone tried the Epson Exhibition Fiber as replacement for the Ilford GFS?
I have a box of it coming my way to do some testing
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Has anyone tried the Epson Exhibition Fiber as replacement for the Ilford GFS?
I have a box of it coming my way to do some testing
I have a box of it coming in next week,and,
I have a friend with the Epson 2880 uses it on a regular basis ,-loves the stuff,I'm reading, it is very heavy ,thick paper,but is one of Epson's finest papers,
Also,the brightness might be a little over the top for me
In my case,I will go back to the Canson Baryta,as a replacement for the Ilford GFS
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Has anyone tried the Epson Exhibition Fiber as replacement for the Ilford GFS?
I have a box of it coming my way to do some testing
It has a much higher OBA count and a more textured surface. There are plenty of close replacements for GFS, but Epson Exhibition Fibre (Espson Trad Photo) isn't one of them. And unless you are running an Epson printer, you will have to create custom profiles for it.
Brian A
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It has a much higher OBA count and a more textured surface. There are plenty of close replacements for GFS, but Epson Exhibition Fibre (Espson Trad Photo) isn't one of them. And unless you are running an Epson printer, you will have to create custom profiles for it.
Brian A
Hugo,
What is your opinion on the Epson profile ,for the Exhibition Fiber --any good?
Is a custom profile still recommended?
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Hugo,
What is your opinion on the Epson profile ,for the Exhibition Fiber --any good?
Is a custom profile still recommended?
I have an old Epson 9600 and not all the papers have profiles for it available.
I much rather profile every paper or canvas using a color munki.
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Hugo,
What is your opinion on the Epson profile ,for the Exhibition Fiber --any good?
Is a custom profile still recommended?
The Epson profiles for the 3880 and 9890 where fine, but it has been a while. It isn't a paper I would turn to often.
Brian A
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I have an old Epson 9600 and not all the papers have profiles for it available.
I much rather profile every paper or canvas using a color munki.
I,ve never had much luck withe colormunki profiles.
If the epson profile doesn't,t work,I,ll ask Eric Chan to make me one.
He has made a few profiles for me ,for some of my other papers,they were all ,right on the money,and he is a pleasure to work with.
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The Epson profiles for the 3880 and 9890 where fine, but it has been a while. It isn't a paper I would turn to often.
Brian A
I,m a bit concerned about the thickness,and the brightness.
Just thought I,d give it a shot?
It was a little pricey too.
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I,ve never had much luck withe colormunki profiles.
If the epson profile doesn't,t work,I,ll ask Eric Chan to make me one.
He has made a few profiles for me ,for some of my other papers,they were all ,right on the money,and he is a pleasure to work with.
Eric stopped making profiles a year or so back.
Brian A
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Eric stopped making profiles a year or so back.
Brian A
Brian,
Who would you recommend?
Mike
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Has anyone tried the Epson Exhibition Fiber as replacement for the Ilford GFS?
I have a box of it coming my way to do some testing
Not a good alternative for IGFS but also the paper that shifts its white the fastest of all fibre/baryta papers tested by Aardenburg Imaging. I would not touch it with a barge pole. Epson has some very nice art papers like the Hot and Cold presses mattes but this is not the one that deserves the Signature Worthy label.
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Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst
http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
January 2014, 600+ inkjet media white spectral plots.
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Brian,
Who would you recommend?
There is everything from itSupplies for about $25 to the more bespoke ones from Andrew Rodney (aka the Digital Dog) for $100.
http://digitaldog.net/services.html
To be honest, I would wait and see how the Epson profiles work for you; and even whether you like the paper or not. That fading white point did it for me. It would be a bit pointless paying for custom profiles for a paper you may not like.
Brian A
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There is everything from itSupplies for about $25 to the more bespoke ones from Andrew Rodney (aka the Digital Dog) for $100.
http://digitaldog.net/services.html
To be honest, I would wait and see how the Epson profiles work for you; and even whether you like the paper or not. That fading white point did it for me. It would be a bit pointless paying for custom profiles for a paper you may not like.
Brian A
Good point Brian,yes,I think I will wait
Like I said,brightness/thickness could ,& now fading,might kill it for me
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Good news:
Hahnemühle is about to start selling a paper that may be a good (or excellent) substitute.
I have a printed sample on my hands and it looks very good.
Alpha cellulose, 310gsm, with optical brighteners (as Ilford GFS and Canson IBP), subtle (almost non existent) texture, almost matt on unprinted areas and satin gloss on printed areas.
The name will be "Photo Silk Baryta 310", and the use of the "silk" is no coincidence for sure.
I am waiting a sample roll to print and test but I can tell you for sure that it is a beautiful paper.
Best regards.
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Good news:
Hahnemühle is about to start selling a paper that may be a good (or excellent) substitute.
I have a printed sample on my hands and it looks very good.
Alpha cellulose, 310gsm, with optical brighteners (as Ilford GFS and Canson IBP), subtle (almost non existent) texture, almost matt on unprinted areas and satin gloss on printed areas.
The name will be "Photo Silk Baryta 310", and the use of the "silk" is no coincidence for sure.
I am waiting a sample roll to print and test but I can tell you for sure that it is a beautiful paper.
Best regards.
Went on the Hahnemuhle site,couldn't find any info on this paper
Geraldo,do you know if it uses photo black ink?
Mike
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Looks like it will be part of their "Hahnemüle Photo" line of papers, but it is not on their site yet, heard it and got my printed sample yesterday directly from Hahnemühle´s top staff.
I did not ask, but I am sure it uses Photo Black ink. It should hit the market in a month or two, I think.
Here is a picture of it (sorry for the crappy iphone picture, i tried to catch a reflection to show the surface and the glossiness of the paper):
Edit: looking at the posted picture I noticed that the apparent texture is exaggerated on the area where the glare is. The paper is really smooth.
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Thanks Geraldo,
This explains the email I got from Hahnenmuhle about the WPPI show coming up
Any quick impressions you'd like to share?
Mike
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From the printed sample I got all I can say is that it is a beautiful paper, quite similar to Ilford GFS and Canson IBP. It is slightly whiter and glows a bit more under UV light, so it surely has a bit more OBA (FBA) than the other two. Nice deep blacks and vivid colours.
As soon as I get my sample to profile and print on, I will be able to tell more.
Best regards.
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From the printed sample I got all I can say is that it is a beautiful paper, quite similar to Ilford GFS and Canson IBP. It is slightly whiter and glows a bit more under UV light, so it surely has a bit more OBA (FBA) than the other two. Nice deep blacks and vivid colours.
As soon as I get my sample to profile and print on, I will be able to tell more.
Best regards.
Thanks Geraldo,
I went ahead and ordered a box of Ilford GFS,couldn't resist the low price,now I have about a years supply
I'll be using this paper with the Canson photographique profile,I seem to be getting good results with that combo.
Geraldo,I look forward to your comments after you've had time to test the Hahnemuhle.
Mike
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This sounds like the unique characteristics of their Photo Rag Satin but with less texture.
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Although the new "silk" is not super-glossy, it is way glossier than Photo Rag Satin on the printed areas.
Another good thing about it that I forgot to mention is that it does not have that magenta cast of the baryta FB.
Best regards.
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Too bad if Hahnemulhe seems to be headed in the direction of more OBA use rather than less. The more I study white point stability issues of media containing OBAs the more I'm convinced those media should not be described freely in the same context with "archival" fine art printing. It's not just that light exposed OBAs eventually lose their fluorescence. There is mounting evidence in my light faded print sample collection that the OBA degradation products do not always remain colorless once the prints are retired from continuous display to a low intensity or dark stored location. The widely held assumption that the OBA containing papers will simply revert to their "natural" white state after the OBAs fade may very well be wishful thinking. It's easy to understand why the phenomenon has had little discussion in the scientific literature. Accelerated light fade test procedures normally don't include a subsequent recheck of the sample after a relatively long extended dark storage cycle. One has to do the experiment >:(
best,
Mark
http://www.aardenburg-imaging.com
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Mark,
Your point makes a lot of sense, I always had that feeling/fear about OBA decay having other effects than reverting the paper to its natural colour, but was never able to find any solid evidence of that.
On the other hand, Hahnemühle´s marketing director told me personally they face contradictory demands from clients: one crowd wants OBA free papers while the other crowd demands the brightest paper possible, so they are trying to have products to satisfy both. As long as they keep good OBA free options that is fine with me.
Best regards.
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I made a print last night on Canson Baryta Photographique and compared the same image I had printed with GFS, a small difference on the surface color on the Canson, seems just a bit brighter, other than that, its a beautiful print and compares very well with the one made in GFS
Hugo
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+1,you can also use the Canson Profile on the GFS
Then compare the 2 prints
Canson profile on GFS,works better for me,on my R3000
The two papers are almost identical,I said,almost
Both exceptional papers,the Canson paper is more delicate-handle with care.
Mike