Luminous Landscape Forum
Raw & Post Processing, Printing => Printing: Printers, Papers and Inks => Topic started by: alifatemi on January 18, 2014, 06:43:12 am
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hi. My almost new 11880 prints unwanted parallel line( picture attached) . I have power clean it several times besides alignment but still I have it. Any solution please?
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Hi,
I am thinking about paper thickness, I presume you can change 'platen gap'? Just an idea, probably not a good one.
Best regards
Erik
hi. My almost new 11880 prints unwanted parallel line( picture attached) . I have power clean it several times besides alignment but still I have it. Any solution please?
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gap is wide
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If possible could print a solid box 8" x 8" on either a new 8 1/2 x 11 sheet or a 24inch roll? It looks like from the picture you trying to print an alignment pattern. I am curious what the printer does on just a solid.
You mention it's almost new I would also get Epson involved if there is warranty left.
Paul Caldwell
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I get some slanted printing from my 3880 head striking the edge of the curled paper. Some thick BC paper curls badly from the sides and the head knocks it sideways while passing through the rollers. Sometimes it looks like a ghost or double image. I've since retired the BC Silverada paper too as the ink also seems to bleed into other colors as well on it when I make the profile charts.
Try printing the square box idea above, and with a very flat thinner paper, and see if it improves.
SG
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Mostly printing on Hanemuehle 60" canvas with wide gap that problem accrued then shifting to simple thin plain paper, after some test the problem solved but when getting back to canvas, it started printing those lines again, cleaning the head for several times but did not improve it just sometimes even in canvas, there is no problem at all sometimes there is. it seems it is randomly happens. maybe some software bugs!?
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Heres how I see it, printed lines have nothing to do with a clog, i.e you are getting ink out. You either have some ink that has gotten over the head (possible with too many cleanings especially power type), and the pad where the head rests is totally saturated with ink. To fix this, you need to pull the head off the resting pad and literally soak up the excess. Pec pads do very well for this as they leave no residue. Excessive number of cleans IMO do more to damage the printer than help.
Or, you are seeing head strikes due to the platen gap being set to wide. On the 9900 you have standard, wide, wider, widest. With canvas you need to be at wider or even widest or you will have head strikes in the non printed part of the print or even over your print as it seems like you have in the alignment pattern.
Move the platen gap to widest or wider and see if that helps.
The only downside I have found to the wider platen gaps is that you can get faint banding in the darker colors but head strikes are much worse looking.
Set the platen gap on the printer's end, not in the computer as I have always felt one will over ride the other. Don't mess with the platen gap setting in the driver when you print. Also make sure your media setting is Canvas. I believe this allows on the 11880 with the latest driver, but I may be wrong as I don't have one.
This is one reason I have standardized on one canvas company and use both their glossy and matte canvas varieties. Once you get the printer dialed into a specific type/brand a leading company should be able keep the canvas pretty much the same over time (exception to this is glossy). Remember also, Epson makes no paper, i.e. they don't run a mill. Their branded paper/canvas is all jobbed out and it does change over the years. Epson Exhibition matte/glossy canvas is an example. My point is standardizing on a Epson paper/canvas is moot since Epson doesn't make them and they will change them without notice. Epson glossy canvas since 2007 has made by many different companies and has totally changed it's look and feel since the canvas was shipped in 2007. I still have a roll from 2008 and it was made by a Swiss company, I am very certain that throughout most of 2012 and 2013 it was made by a U.S. company.
Working with a company that owns a mill is always a good idea if possible.
Paul Caldwell
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Paul,
How do we find out information on which companies own mills
I'm having issues with my epson R3000 printer and is in the shop for repair.,
Cost of this repair,is 1/2 the total cost of the printer,yes,I was out of warranty.
My 3 favorite papers are:
Ilford Galeria Gold fiber silk
Canson Platine
Harman{Hahnemhuhle} Gloss Art Fiber.
I was advised by the repair tech ,to use a wider Platen setting when using theses papers?
Mike
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Breathing Color has their own mill, they sell both paper and canvas, both under their name and possibly re-branded for other companies. From talking with various company officials over the years, I know they make their own:
Canvas matte and glossy
Matte paper, Optica 1 and their latest offering without OBA's
Fine art 600W paper matte
It's my understanding they don't make either of their RC line or metallic line of papers.
I also don't know if they are milling the latest version of the Vibrance Rag, now called Vibrance Baryta and made from Alpha cellulose instead of 100% cotton.
The other paper company I use the most is Canson and I don't know if they own a mill or not, but over the last 4 years, their paper has been very consistent.
Moab is my main RC paper source but I don't know about their milling either.
Paul Caldwell
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Thanks Paul,
I know Canson paper comes from one of the oldest paper mils in France,and has been in existence for a few hundred years?{correct me if I'm wrong on this},at least ,thats what I read on LL.
I've also started playing with Moab/RedRiver papers,and I like them a lot,especially,the Moab Entrada Rag Natural
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That's my understanding on Canson also at least on the paper side. Not sure on the canvas side, but for me their cost is just way too high on canvas.
Paul
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Not sure on the canvas side, but for me their cost is just way too high on canvas.
Paul
Hi Paul, it depends on geographic location, here in Australia I can buy Canson Infinity PhotoART HD Matte Canvas 10% cheaper than BC Lyve.
That may be the case elsewhere outside the USA in Europe for example.
Brian.
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Erik,
Why do you feel that changing the platen gap to wide ,is a bad suggestion?
The repairman ,whose doing my R3000,strongly suggests that I widen the gap on most of my selected papers,especially the Platine ,and the Harmon.
What am I missing here???
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under warrantee... CALL EPSON ...this is not a platen gap or dirty head problem
I really wish people would see and read what the OP has said in this post and quit giving wrong advice!
A dirty head dragging on the paper or head strikes due to a wrong platen gap, would leave gobs and smears, not even parallel lines!!
David
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I actually did read it and I agree he should call Epson. However head strikes I have gotten from this family of prior printers look just like what he is showing. They don't leave globs but instead lines or brief streaks when the head hits the material. This is especially true on canvas where if the platen gap is too narrow the head is dragging on the media. On pure white media where the majority of them show then you will get faint ink marks as even though the nozzles may not be firing there is bike around the head that creates the mark. If this is new printer there should be a smaller amount of ink build up.
Paul Caldwell
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David,
First,maybe you should calm down a bit.
I did read the OP,3x's.
I called Epson a number of times,regarding the huge blobs of black ink that were being deposited on my paper,and the Epson customer service rep,had no idea what the cause of this could be
As you probably know,epsons customer service people,while some are very good to great,others,well-SUCK.
On my R3000,one of the parts had to be replaced,{I think it is called the ink advanement switch??}Many service people have notified Epson of this issue,and,for some unknown reason,they have failed to do anything about it,except advise customers to send the printer in for repair.,which can be a heavy/expensive ordeal.
My printer was /is out of warranty.
The name of my repairs service is:
Ardito's/ Epson Repairs,located about an hour from my home.,in West Islip,NY
When I explained the issue over the phone,prior to my actually driving out there,he knew exactly what the issue was ,before I even finished,telling him the problem.
When I got there,the entire shop was loaded with Epson printers,of all varieties and sizes,most,with the same issue as the OP posted.
2 technicians,including the owner of the shop-Ronald Ardito,told me"If you continue to use these heavier papers,you MUST adjust the platen gap to wide/wider ,or,use thinner paper"
If anyone would like to talk/e-mail Ronald Ardito,here is his info
phone- 631-661-7281
e-mail-ron@arditos.com
Might I suggest,that some people in this thread call Arnold,he is a pleasure to deal with,more than likely he will isolate this problem and,advise from there
He will want to see what paper you are using,& see the prints that are damaged,with streaks/blobs of ink-so.don't discard
For the original poster--as suggested before,contacting Epson might be your only choice-Good Luck.
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Thanks Paul, I chose widest and canvas on printer side but didn't help just strange matter is that it just happens with Hahnemuehle 60" and not Hahnemuehle 24" or sheet. we test several times the same results. Just that my inks are almost 6 month out of date.
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UPDATE PLEASE!
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A technician from Epson checked the machine, he is suspicious of main board . it takes a week or so to order new one and change it to see if it can solve. I still have no problem on up to 44"print but still when I load 60" paper, it starts again no matter if I send full width photo or cropped smaller one, say 20"
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Hi again,
I believe the first mention of this problem ONLY showing on 60" material was in your post before the latest one. That had not been mentioned before and is very likely a major point to be considered. Again, just a thought..have you tried increasing the paper suction setting when using 60" paper or canvas. If this is indeed a head strike problem it seems reasonable that perhaps the wider material isn't as flat as is should be as it travels through the print path. Therefore the higher suction setting might possibly help. I'll admit that perhaps my thinking on this is way off base, but somehow it seems logical to me. I'm not familiar with that printer, but if it resembles the 9900 at all the paper suction can be set either in the driver or on the printer control panel. In the driver the the default setting is "Standard" and from there you go to minus numbers. Not sure about the control panel, I've never had to reset that. Something to consider perhaps.
Gary
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thanks Gary, I will try it again and keep U posted.
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I have found Increased suction only works during the loading of the paper. You can easily hear the machine ramp back down as soon as the paper loading process is done. This is true at least on 9880 and 9900, can't speak for sure on the 11880 but I figure it's the same.
If the increase suction was working during the print, you would hear the louder noise of the fans during the print and as soon as the paper is finished, the fans ramp back down.
Paul
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I dealt with this issue on Epson HotPress Natural.
The solution from Epson's East Coast specialist after 2 D1 techs replaced everything. Some parts twice.
Platen Gap has to be set for Standard. Run the job at 2880.
Frustrating and not a perfect fix, but it did solve the issue in areas with heavy ink coverage.
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what do you mean by everything? even headblock ?
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I dealt with this issue on Epson HotPress Natural.
The solution from Epson's East Coast specialist after 2 D1 techs replaced everything. Some parts twice.
Platen Gap has to be set for Standard. Run the job at 2880.
Frustrating and not a perfect fix, but it did solve the issue in areas with heavy ink coverage.
Very much the same experience a friend had some years ago with his 11880. Uses it still in that setting when he can not do the (repeat) job on his iPF9400 that does all jobs in any print resolution setting and way faster then.
--
Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst
http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
January 2014, 600+ inkjet media white spectral plots.
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I find this very interesting.
As the mention of hot press natural. See my thread "7900 headache" I had no problem with my printer until loading it with a roll of cold press natural and it seems to look like the same thing only yours (i am sorry to say seems to be worse).
I have got mine better with head alignment but still thing something more is wrong
Hope you get it sorted
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I finally found the problem: UPS! after about 2 months of Epson technicians coming and going, talking pictures from the faulty print sample and send them to all the world for help, they decided on changing printer main board that maybe a chance to solves the problem. meanwhile quite by chance, I had my UPS battery changed; the guy who were changing the battery was keep telling me that UPS is not good for laser printer and while I was keep telling him that this big printer is not laser one, he was repeating himself all the time! when he did his job and changed the batteries, I tought maybe because of old corrupted UPS batteries, when I was printing 60" because of high suction drawing lots of current from UPS, UPS couldn't have supply enough current to printer. I bypassed the printer and conect it to outlet directly; to my surprise, the problem solved. I tried and tried several times with 60' paper but no problem at all. again, I run the printer via UPS but this time with new batteries, again no problem!. God knows how happy I am. I informed Epson of the matter, but not any feedback from them since yesterday that I have informed them. anyhow, thanks everybody here who tried to help me. change your UPS battery sooner than later!
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Ali, thanks for the update, makes sense now that we know what the issue was, glad to see you finally have it sorted.
Brian.
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Interesting is Epson QUALIFIED PERSONEL(!) could not even guess what is the problem and order for new main board one month ago and even after one month, Epson Japan could have not provide them a main board; they said they have to order one to the vendor and we don't have it in stock! Assume that after another month waiting, Epson would change the main board and still there was a problem, then what else Epson wanted to do?! change the head block? Epson support is really ridiculous, really shame on them, I don't know if it is the same with Canon printer or not.
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"Epson support is really ridiculous, really shame on them"
+1 on the above.
Sorry your having so much trouble-hope you get it worked out
Recently I had to take my R3000 in for service,out of warranty,so,I payed.
You wouldn't believe what the owner & his son,had to say about Epson tech support.
Half of all the printers that he had to service were Epson's,mostly for the same issue
And,After dozens of e-mails to them,they refused to make any changes to the ink clog problems
On some of his e-mails,they didn't even bother to send a reply.
Thanks to these guys {Aldito's Repair,LI,NY},my R3000 is working perfectly
Mike
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Why are you blaming the support techs for something in your environment about which they have no knowledge or control?
They have to make a basic assumption that you are connected to a functioning, working, power supply (be it UPS or otherwise). You know what happens when you start telling customers that the reason their product (any product) isn't working is because of the environment or some other piece of equipment they are using? 99% of the time they get defensive, upset, angry and start telling you to take long walks off short piers.
It's a lose/lose situation, so without clear evidence (like a UPS that's screaming because it has a fault), they have to assume it's something wrong with the printer. It sucks, and perhaps you wouldn't have reacted badly to being told it might be something else (and sure, there are good ways and bad ways of going down that path) but at the end of the day, it's the responsibility of the user/owner to ensure that everything else is up to scratch before calling and saying "hey, I think your product is faulty, please come and fix it".
That can be very difficult, we're most of us not experts in these things, but these are commercial products and there is an expectation that you have suitably expert advice to call upon.
Honestly I sympathise with the issues and I think your whole approach to fixing it and posting up etc is great - this really isn't directed at you, per se, but I see it so often I just can't let it pass without comment to balance up the view.
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This Looks and sounds similar to my problem, I don't really understand what you have done though to fix it can someone please explain to me.
Excuse me stupidity
UPS battery ??
I have an epson 9700
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A UPS is an Uninterruptable Power Supply. Basically, it's a big battery that sits between your power supply and your electrical device and if the power drops, it keeps the device running on the battery. They do other things (condition the line, protect against spikes, etc, depending on the model) but basically that's what they are.
The batteries are generally replaceable and when they get older they don't perform as well and as a result the power being delivered can be below expectation and below requirement. The reduced power can cause electrical devices, including printers, to fail to operate correctly and can be very difficult to diagnose as an issue (for all parties concerned).
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Farmer, support technicians should know about UPSs, without a doubt.
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What kinds of adjustment do you have on your printer?
Is it like on my 4900, you have to buy a separate adjustment utility?
I am surprised how much I can adjust the printer by.
Seems to me your 11880 can only do "more" than mine?
/ Roger
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Yes, they should know they exist. But when you tell a customer it's something other than the vendor's product, a lot (most?) react badly, so it becomes difficult. When you say to someone, "hey, the UPS might be an issue" and the customer says, "but it's not beeping at me or showing any problem" they're also implying "hey, are you trying to pass the blame on to someone/something else?".
It's a sad but true fact and it does impact on how techs often deal with these things.
Sure, "disconnect your product from anything and everything and then just get it running bare-bones" should be the first thing to try, but even then customers frequently push back and complain about it or expect the tech to do it and then blame the tech if anything goes wrong with the other equipment :(
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Why are you blaming the support techs for something in your environment about which they have no knowledge or control?
They have to make a basic assumption that you are connected to a functioning, working, power supply (be it UPS or otherwise). You know what happens when you start telling customers that the reason their product (any product) isn't working is because of the environment or some other piece of equipment they are using? 99% of the time they get defensive, upset, angry and start telling you to take long walks off short piers.
It's a lose/lose situation, so without clear evidence (like a UPS that's screaming because it has a fault), they have to assume it's something wrong with the printer. It sucks, and perhaps you wouldn't have reacted badly to being told it might be something else (and sure, there are good ways and bad ways of going down that path) but at the end of the day, it's the responsibility of the user/owner to ensure that everything else is up to scratch before calling and saying "hey, I think your product is faulty, please come and fix it".
That can be very difficult, we're most of us not experts in these things, but these are commercial products and there is an expectation that you have suitably expert advice to call upon.
Honestly I sympathise with the issues and I think your whole approach to fixing it and posting up etc is great - this really isn't directed at you, per se, but I see it so often I just can't let it pass without comment to balance up the view.
I didn't mean to attack all tech support people-some of them are very good
What I am complaining, about is ,how the the /repair people have let it known,to Epson is totally aware of the issue,and refuse to address it.
It is not just a problem with the R3000,but many much more expensive models,with maybe an exception for the 3880?
Mike
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Everyone is entitled to report their own experiences, so your comments are absolutely valid, Mike.
It's usually not nearly as crystal clear or obvious as people think, though, when you start dealing with entire populations of products around the world. A problem to you may be statistically non-existent to a manufacturer. Of course we know and have all heard of situations in which known problems were denied. There are many reasons for it, not least of which the overly litigious nature of some groups these days which has the net effect of making corporations say nothing when they might otherwise be quite happy to discuss something to reach a conclusion. Sometimes, of course, it's just very bad decisions from management.
For every reported "customer service failure", there are almost certainly 40 or 50 satisfied customers who never comment publically (because they're happy). That doesn't mean you shouldn't complain about bad service, it just means we should avoid drawing too long a bow. Once again, data is not the plural of anecdote :-) But you should still tell your story for others to know and be aware.
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I'd like to know just what kind of UPS you have. In a standby UPS system the printer is powered directly by input mains and the backup power circuitry is only invoked via relay when the utility power fails. The condition of the batteries is moot unless you have some weird setup that is using the clipped sine wave output of the UPS all of the time and you've somehow disabled the alarm. Regardless, the Epson tech needs only to scope the input to the main board to determine it's "cleanliness" and suitability for the purpose of running the printer. This test should always be performed immediately after the classic "on/off" switch test. - Jim
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I'd like to know just what kind of UPS you have. In a standby UPS system the printer is powered directly by input mains and the backup power circuitry is only invoked via relay when the utility power fails.
I agree. There are some which work differently, but the majority just pass standard AC power unless it drops and then switch to the battery. Most UPS backups work for years and in many of them the batteries are worthless and people still keep using them. I pulled some out of a location that were so old I couldn't even find replacement batteries, and the batteries in the would keep the computer up for about 10 seconds ... very dead. Worked fine until the power actually went out. Some have alarms or lights to warn you when the battery needs replaced, but those seem to be pretty unreliable as well.
I don't think any technician for any company would think about a battery backup to be a problem in such a unique situation where only 60" paper is a problem. They're not engineers, they just trouble shoot they way they've been trained. I'm having a hard time believing it myself ... don't misunderstand, I believe what you are saying, it's such and oddity that no one would ever think of it and it's certainly a very unique situation. I don't know why the printers power consumption would change much because of the paper size and how in the world that could actually create lines on the paper. Certainly a very weird circumstance. Lucky you stumbled across it.
I see these UPS for printer threads and I guess I'm not quite seeing why. I suppose if you live somewhere that gets hit by frequent brownouts or power bumps all the time maybe, but where I live if the power dies, I"m done for a while. My backup keeps my computer on long enough to execute a safe shut down. Yeah I might lose a little paper, but I think you would be better off investing in a very high quality surge protector, instead of a battery backup.
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Why are you blaming the support techs for something in your environment about which they have no knowledge or control?
They have to make a basic assumption that you are connected to a functioning, working, power supply (be it UPS or otherwise). You know what happens when you start telling customers that the reason their product (any product) isn't working is because of the environment or some other piece of equipment they are using? 99% of the time they get defensive, upset, angry and start telling you to take long walks off short piers.
It's a lose/lose situation, so without clear evidence (like a UPS that's screaming because it has a fault), they have to assume it's something wrong with the printer. It sucks, and perhaps you wouldn't have reacted badly to being told it might be something else (and sure, there are good ways and bad ways of going down that path) but at the end of the day, it's the responsibility of the user/owner to ensure that everything else is up to scratch before calling and saying "hey, I think your product is faulty, please come and fix it".
That can be very difficult, we're most of us not experts in these things, but these are commercial products and there is an expectation that you have suitably expert advice to call upon.
Honestly I sympathise with the issues and I think your whole approach to fixing it and posting up etc is great - this really isn't directed at you, per se, but I see it so often I just can't let it pass without comment to balance up the view.
Phil, I totally understand your logic here and accept it but my point is first, why they order to change expensive main board($1200) when they can't find any fault in it (or they are not experienced and knowledgeable to check it correctly) and second, even if problem is with main board, why ordering a new one should take this long assuming that most 11880 printers are working in professional environment were owner have lots of contract with customers waiting for their prints to deliver on time, some of them preparing for exhibition with very close deadline? I think the correct sequence to finding such a fault is when the technician can't recognize the problem, he should start systematically from printer power supply and check the input and output voltage of its components then step by step moves to next parts. they did not check the power supply at all, if they had done it, I am sure they could have found that there is a problem in input voltage; that's what I expect from Epson technician as a professional. Regarding other friends' comment on UPS that should work properly even with faulty battery,I have contacted the vendor and waiting for their reply, but I have to mention that even with those bad batteries, printer and computers connected to it were working as usual and UPS could supply them and keep them working but it seems just when UPS was under high current demand, output deficiency was showing itself as noise in printer head, triggering those parallel lines but in normal use of UPS, one could not sense any problem with UPS, it maybe gets back to every UPS design topology that vary from one manufacturer to another that's why various UPS reaction to such a situation is quite deferent but I'll post here UPS maker feedback as soon as I get their reply. I still really hope that that problem was because of UPS and never shows itself again! Thanks everybody here for commenting ...
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There are many reasons they may have suspected a mainboard, not least of which the fault didn't suggest to them (with their knowledge) that it might be a power issue. Indeed, from what you're saying, it was only at certain times and the rest of the time the UPS performed normally - so it's possible that they wouldn't have noticed an issue with the power anyway.
Honestly, I would have asked the technician why he thought it was the mainboard, because otherwise we're just guessing.
As to availability? Again, no idea - you'd need to ask the technician. Unfortunately, things do go wrong at times - mis-deliveries, out of stock due to unforseen issues and so on. The best starting point is to put the questions directly to the people involved, rather than guessing :-)