Luminous Landscape Forum
Raw & Post Processing, Printing => Printing: Printers, Papers and Inks => Topic started by: EinstStein on November 02, 2013, 02:37:44 pm
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I was impressed by the metallic prints seen in some photo galleries. Brilliant for landscape. I want to print panoramic landscape.
It seems Kodak's metallic paper has the best and much better price. I believe it's also Kodak who started the metallic paper.
Any experience and comment to use Kodak metallic paper on Epson R3880?
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I was impressed by the metallic prints seen in some photo galleries. Brilliant for landscape. I want to print panoramic landscape.
It seems Kodak's metallic paper has the best and much better price. I believe it's also Kodak who started the metallic paper.
Any experience and comment to use Kodak metallic paper on Epson R3880?
Prints on metal or on metallic paper? Both are possible. If on paper they may well have been on Kodak Endura Metallic, a wet process paper, not an inkjet paper.
Metallic paper is available for Breathing Color, InkPress, itSupplies/Atlex, Kodak, Moab, RedRiver, and Mitsubishi/Pictorico; and most if not all of it seems to be made by Mitsubishi and sold under different brand names.
I haven’t used the Kodak version and haven’t seen any reviews of it. It is only available in US letter and 13 x 19 inch sheets, but in many roll sizes. It is certainly inexpensive, in fact cheap enough that buying a box and trying it out would be the way to go, if you like that sort of thing.
Brian A
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Kodak has metallic ink jet paper, 17" role only Costs $90 from b&h.
But, I just realize r3880 does not take roll paper, and only prints up to 17"x22". True?
I hope the Spec on B&H is wrong.
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Kodak has metallic ink jet paper, 17" role only Costs $90 from b&h.
But, I just realize r3880 does not take roll paper, and only prints up to 17"x22". True?
I hope the Spec on B&H is wrong.
You might want to have a look at Moab Slickrock Metallic if you need sheets
http://moabpaper.com/slickrock-metallic/
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Kodak has metallic ink jet paper, 17" role only Costs $90 from b&h.
But, I just realize r3880 does not take roll paper, and only prints up to 17"x22". True?
I hope the Spec on B&H is wrong.
It prints up to 17" x 37.4", without a RIP. And no, it doesn't have roll paper support.
If you were going for the Kodak, 13" x 19" sheets are a great buy at $26.
Brian A
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Can R2000 or R3000 take 10" roll paper? That's my next option to print 2.7x panorama,
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I have some samples of the Kodak Professional (Brand Management) inkjet metallic paper coming in. I suspect that the Kodak metallic will be much the same as current inkjet metallic offerings: nice pearlescent metallic media with good *pop* but not the same as printing with Kodak Endura Metallic at a pro lab. We'll see.
ken
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I have experimented with the new "Kodak"? metallic inkjet paper on my 7900 and was extremely disappointed. It doesn't come anywhere close to the luminous dimentional qualities that Pro Endura gives .I got samples from Atlex.com
None of the inkjet metallic I've tried do! As a matter of fact I found the inkjet metallics rather dull!
US distributor and available ICC profiles at page bottom...
http://www.brandmanagementgroup.com/kodak/professional/kodak-professional-inkjet-photo-paper-metallic-255g
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The Kodak inkjet metallic I've seen is very impressive. I've seen the wet/chemical print metallic years ago, but can't remember how to compare.
Anyway, the inkjet metallic looks amazing to me, at least compare to the other inkjet papers.
In fact, I think the matt or luster paper look much more "dull" (meaning, different "artistic") to me. At this level I think it's pretty personal.
What I'm asking is more of your experiences in terms paper handling and non-artistic characteristics.
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Can R2000 or R3000 take 10" roll paper? That's my next option to print 2.7x panorama,
Only if it comes on a two inch core, otherwise you would have to unwind it onto an old two inch core. If you have to do that, then you may as well just cut sheets and feed them into the 3880. If you get into larger format printers, you will find a rotary trimmer almost essential.
I have't seen any documentation anywhere that mentions the core size of the Kodak (actually Brand Management Group now) paper.
Brian A
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I noticed they have "driver" and "plug-in" profiles. How do you know which to use? I print with Q-Image.
Mike
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I noticed they have "driver" and "plug-in" profiles. How do you know which to use? I print with Q-Image.
QImage isn't RIP, it uses the driver.
Brian A
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I do also,
use the ICC profiles for Epson Prem Luster 260, it is I exactly the same as the download ICC profile from Brand Marketings page for the Kodak.
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I have experimented with the new "Kodak"? metallic inkjet paper on my 7900 and was extremely disappointed. It doesn't come anywhere close to the luminous dimentional qualities that Pro Endura gives .I got samples from Atlex.com
None of the inkjet metallic I've tried do! As a matter of fact I found the inkjet metallics rather dull!
US distributor and available ICC profiles at page bottom...
http://www.brandmanagementgroup.com/kodak/professional/kodak-professional-inkjet-photo-paper-metallic-255g
Not familiar with the Kodak quality but for the metallic media that I know, dye ink delivers the most spectacular effect. The dyes bring it closer to the chromogene metallic medias of the past, transparency is better so the metal effect gets through, dye ink also keeps the gloss at a high level overall. There are of course disadvantages in the use of dye inks.
In SpectrumViz I separated the Pearlescent effect papers from the Metallic effect papers. The names of the papers often do not describe the visual difference that good. The Sihl Masterclass Metallic Pearl HIGH Gloss Photo Paper 290gsm shows a higher reflectance than the other metallic and pearlescent papers that I measured. It shows in the print as well compared to for example a Moab's Slickrock print. Would love to measure more of that category for SpectrumViz. I wonder though whether an i1Pro is suitable for measuring metallic surfaces.
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Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst
http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
July 2013, 500+ inkjet media white spectral plots.
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Kodak has metallic ink jet paper, 17" role only Costs $90 from b&h.
But, I just realize r3880 does not take roll paper, and only prints up to 17"x22". True?
I hope the Spec on B&H is wrong.
You can cut sheets from rolls and feed them to the 3880 (up to the length limit). I print 17x30 on my 3880 quite often.
Sal
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My understanding is that pearlescent effect pigment applications require a multi-angle spectrophometer such as the Xrite MA9X series, BYK mac-i series, or Konica Cm512 series device.
This is a URL from Konica regarding multi-angle spectrophotometry:
http://www.konicaminolta.com/about/research/core_technology/optical/instrument_001.html
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The Kodak “Metallic” that most refer to and offers by far the best metallic “look” is a chromogenic paper (chemical processed) , not an inkjet paper. There is not an inkjet paper that can equal it, partially because of the almost pure polished gloss of the paper adding to the metallic look. A pigment printer cannot offer this finish. the closest I have seen to Kodak Metallic is from Moab’s metallic offering, but side by side the Kodak metallic is still superior.
A metallic paper using a dye based printer would probably come much closer to the look of the Kodak metallic, if the inkjet paper was designed to handle that type of printing. I haven’t tried any of the metallic papers on a dye based printer.
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The Kodak “Metallic” that most refer to and offers by far the best metallic “look” is a chromogenic paper (chemical processed) , not an inkjet paper. There is not an inkjet paper that can equal it,
That's just about what I said earlier.
Inkjet metallics suck big time compared to Endura ;-) I don't think to OP knew what he was comparing to, that he had seen before
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Solvent printers on metallic are probably the closest inkjet process you're going to get to the chemical process and there are a wide variety of substrates available, plus some solvent printers with metallic ink as well. Not related to the OP, but just a side note perhaps of interest to some folks.
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A metallic paper using a dye based printer would probably come much closer to the look of the Kodak metallic, ...
I don't have a comparison to the Kodak wet process paper, but I can attest to the superiority of dyes to pigments on at least the Red River metallic inkjet paper, particularly with respect to black and white.
I don't know what all the factors are that make dyes + metallic so special, but it appears the surface of the paper is part of the secret. It may have a lower reflection than matte under Tru Vue glass. One gets the feeling you're "looking into" the image much more than looking at a piece of paper. Pigments and even a spray like Print Shield decrease the effect one sees. They tend to put a veil over the image. B&W dyes and Lascaux Fixativ (lower viscosity -- appears to go into the paper and not coat the outside) are the combination that seems to optimize what at least this Red River paper can do. Anyone with a 1400/30 can see effect. (QuadToneRip is required.) I have a write-up of the 1400 OEM Claria B&W printing approach at http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/1400-Claria-BW.pdf. The combination I used for a recent show, using an old Epson 4000, is written up at http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/4000-Noritsu-5K-Plus.pdf for those interested.
Paul
www.PaulRoark.com
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I've confirmed the Kodak Metallic papers I saw are the wet print ones, not inkjet.
For that transparent, glassy look, it seems I could go through adoramapix. It's about $15 per 20x20, not bad.
It's a big relief that I don't have to put much thought on this to choose the ink jet printer.
R3880 still the choice, in general, for ink jet?
I'm still splitting between
-- R2000 (13x19 or 13x44, with roll supported)
-- R3000 (13x19 or 13x44, roll supported), and)
-- R3880 (80mm tank, 17x22, no roll support)
Any objection?
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R3880 still the choice, in general, for ink jet?
I'm still splitting between
-- R2000 (13x19 or 13x44, with roll supported)
-- R3000 (13x19 or 13x44, roll supported), and)
-- R3880 (80mm tank, 17x22, no roll support)
I really don’t see roll feed support being a major advantage on a 13 inch printer. There just isn’t that much roll paper available in a 13 inch width and 2 inch core. Even if you are not located in the US (you don’t list your whereabouts in your profile), go to the B&H site, look at roll paper, and check the 13 inch box. There are 30, most of which will not have a two inch core – and if you are going to have to rewind the paper, you may as well cut it into sheets.
Compare that to the 181 papers available in 17 inch rolls, or 275 available in 24 inch rolls.
The only advantage I see, in this regard: the r3000 will print to 44 inches, the 3880 to only 37.4 inches.
Brian A
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I have fooled around quite alot with metallic papers with both pigment printers (Epson 3880 and 9900) and dye,Epson 1430.
Photochrome metallic and Lexjet mettallic are about the same. They are the papers I started with and the results on the pigment printers are quite good.
I recently did a large batch of 12x18's for a client that wanted a super high gloss. I had been using the Pictorico Hi Gloss Film with the pigment printers and then facemounting on acrylic with good results.
I knew that the results with this paper with a dye printer would be even better. Purchased the Epson 1430 and ran the Pictorico paper. The results with dye on Pictorico are just stunning. Only problem was these prints were super delicate. (Couple of threads here discussing that issue.)
Mark Linquist suggested I try Ilford Prestige High Gloss,very similar to the Pictorico but it has a slight metallic tint in its bright white base.
To answer Wayne Fox the stuff is just off the wall gorgeous printed with a dye printer. Talk about that glassy look,this is it. Only problem is that I have been printing almost daily with this printer and the inks were just killing me. ($21.00 for a 13ml cart.)
I spent about $200.00 for the Jon Cone CL Dye inks and refillable cart system and that solved that.
You may want to look into purchasing both a dye and pigment printer. Just cannot beat the 3880 for pigment ,mine has been great although it does not get much use.
You can get a 13" dye printer with rebates for several hundred dollars. Quite a few guys here are talking up the small Canon,sorry cannot think of the model number.
My next step is to find a 24" roll printer that I can convert to dye,maybe something like the Epson 7890. Dye on these glossy films are just second to none.
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I see that Kodak is now selling an inkjet metallic paper now that is supposed to mimic the Endura. Anyone tried it and would like to share their experience?
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I see that Kodak is now selling an inkjet metallic paper now that is supposed to mimic the Endura. Anyone tried it and would like to share their experience?
I just don’t think you can’t mimic the endura with a pigment based process. Just a difference between laying semi opaque dyes down on top of paper vs dyes encapsulated in the emulsion. Pretty sure Kodak is just sourcing the paper from the same places all the other vendors are.
Not that ink jet metallics can’t look good, just won’t look the same. I print of ton of Kodak Metallic and several of my clients who own Epsons have tried metallic papers and haven’t been happy, and continue to buy from me.