Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Computers & Peripherals => Topic started by: Christoph C. Feldhaim on November 02, 2013, 09:30:10 am
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Hello everybody!
Working with 4000 ppi scans from my MF film work my PC is choking quite a bit.
My files sizes go up to 10 gigs when using multiple layers, working with Photoshops Large File Format.
In the moment I have an Asus Mainboard P5Q, 8 Gigs RAM and a Quad Core CPU from the pre-I3/I5/I7 time (Q6600).
Graphics card is a Radeon HD 6670.
I am using a 64 Gig SSD for acceleration purposes (PS 6 workdisk, system cache files on Windows 7 64 bit)
I am thinking of adding another SSD and upgrading Mainboard, CPU and Memory, maybe graphics card.
Some specific questions:
- Should I go for 16, 32 or 64 Gigs of RAM? Which type/brand of RAM?
- Processor: i5, i7 ? Which type and features give me what?
- Mainboard: I have no clue what to look for, only that ATX form factor fits my current rig.
- Firewire: Would e good to have for my scanner, but I can add a card later if necessary.
- Second SSD: Size? Brand?
I have not set an absolute cost limit, but would like to stay below 1500 Euro, better around the 1000 Euro range.
Any recommendations on what to replace would help greatly to spend my money efficiently and not for useless stuff would be appreciated.
Thank you very much
~Chris
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I have no specific advice but I can add some perspective (just in case).
I have a very similar system: Asus P5Q-Pro, Q9550, 16 GB RAM, and SSD as the system drive. I am looking maybe to buy a new laptop (it's probably going to be a new Macbook Pro, even if I have no interest in switching to MacOS they are the best laptops), so I was curious what's the performance of my system, processor mainly. I ran Geekbench and the single core is 1658 and multicore is 5777 (all this with antivirus, etc running in background). The single core is worse than even the new Airs, the multicore is comparable to the 13" but about half of the 15".
Your processor it's probably not much better than mine, so if you use more processor intensive tasks I would look at something at least as powerful as the new processors from Macbook Pro 15". 16 GB RAM is adequate for my files than can go to 0.5 GB (it's used up to 70-80%) so I would look for about 32 GB if you can.
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You made me curious and I just looked in Newegg.
While there are boards that theoretically support 64 GB I didn't find 16GB sticks of RAM so you cannot really fit more 32 GB (on a Haswell board), at least not at a reasonable cost.
A quick configuration, almost top of the line would cost: Haswell proc 300, Asus motherboard 300, 32GB RAM 300. You can add GPU (I guess one generation older might make sense if you are not gaming) and another SSD (256-512 GB + 200-400).
Another idea would to look at the previous gen Intel proc as the new doesn't look that added that much performance.
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Intel Sandy-bridge or ivy-bridge core i7 quad or hex core, 32-64 GB corsair ddr3 1600 memory, ASUS motherboard (ws - workstation version if you want firewire on board), sata III ssd os drive, scratch drive, working drive, windows 7 pro 64 bit, pretty much any pci-e 2 video card with at least 512mB memory if you are only doing stills.
Should be a good starting point. Not a lot of difference in cpu between sandy to haswell, so you have some budget flexibility. Memory size and sata III ports and ssds will make more difference. PS can use 6 cores, but it depends an what you are doing if it will make a difference.
Wikipedia has a good set of tables outlining all of the cpu options for each generation.
Frank
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Thanks !
Thats a good starting point I think.
I'll do some digging now.
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Here is some extra food for thought. It relates to Mac but you can from here the difference in processors: http://browser.primatelabs.com/mac-benchmarks
If you look also here: http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1653728 there are some user tests for the new iMacs that have the desktop version of the Haswell.
To my surprise the desktop version of Haswell doesn't really seem to add more than 10% relative to the laptop version.
I also built a pretty good configuration on Newegg, starting from scratch. In the attached photo there is missing a 512 GB Samsung 840 Pro (for about $430), the total being a higher than expect 2000-2100$. If you don't need the storage, have the case and power source, etc you can easily get it under 1500$. You can also choose a cheaper motherboard that doesn't have thunderbolt (save 50 there).
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I am still wondering if I should go with a 6 core machine or 4 core and a graphics card like an Nvidia Quadro 2000. All in all I should get a good setup within my price range. I also will definitely opt for a mainboard which allows a possible 64 Gig of Ram (8 slots), though I will start with a 32 Gig Quad kit.
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I thought I couldn't see any of the consumer boards that can support 64GB and one of the newer processors, meaning you could go up to Ivy Bridge-E.
see these:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131802
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131801
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131800
and the processors:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=100007671%20600458197&IsNodeId=1&name=Ivy%20Bridge-E
I have much interest in your result as I am in a similar position. Considering I will not get a big improvement from the desktop over a maxed out Macbook pro unless I really go up a lot on the budget I'm still on the fence. It's not that much a question of budget but practicality and maximum return. I don't feel for MacOs but Win 8 doesn't do anything for me either. And it's much easier to resell the laptop when going for an upgrade ;)
Another configuration (from scratch) makes up for about $2500 (already has 64 GB RAM, adding 6-core or higher graphic card will increase it, subtracting things you have will get it lower but I doubt it will be under $1500).
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Perhaps the most important things out of the way first because they're often not included in initial estimates. A quality power supply (Seasonic Gold or Platinum) and UPS device. Absolute musts.
The new Gigabyte Z87 Chipset motherboard: GIGABYTE Z87X-OC This is a $200 motherboard of very high quality and will OC great if that's your thing. If not, the power regulation reinforcements are desirable for any system. I have the GIGABYTE Z87X-OC Force which adds more ports but is twice the price. If you don't need that number of ports then the $200 version is great. This MB has 2 FW 400/800 ports.
The Haswell 4770k is great if you plan to OC, if not the 4771 (exact same speeds/specs as the 4770k, but cannot be OC'd) will save you $40 or so. Haswell gives you about 10% faster performance across the board, but uses even less power generating less heat. It's incredible how cool a system you can make with this CPU and a decent cooler. I use the Nocturna NH-U12P SE2 Very quiet and cools great. My idle temps are right around 23-25c. Pushing the system using Furmark for instance and you won't see 50c.
At current RAM prices 32gb isn't really excessive for still imagery and is a fair amount for video rendering. But if you do a lot of video go for 64gb and the six-core processor Ivy-E. I like simple lifetime warranty memory from Crucial when possible: Crucial Ballistix Tactical Low Profile 32GB Kit (8GBx4) DDR3-1600 1.35V UDIMM 240-Pin Memory Modules BLT4C8G3D1608ET3LX0 The profiles for 1600 are bullet proof at stock and any OC speeds. You can buy faster RAM but I consider 1600 the sweet spot at current prices.
If budget is at issue the built in video of the Haswell's is fine. You can run two 30" monitors if you must. But if you want performance and speed, especially when rendering video.. I chose this new card from Gigabyte: very quiet and again in the sweet spot of price/performance: Gigabyte GTX 770 GDDR5-2GB 2xDVI/HDMI/DP OC WINDFORCE 3X Graphics Card GV-N770OC-2GD
Add a 256gb Samsung Pro 840 (currently the top SSD performer depending on which benchmarks most closely match your personal work flow) and you're still south of your budget. A 512gb Samsung Evo makes for a great work drive but will take you over budget.
And a surprising benefit of these exact components? They are 100% compatible for a Hackentosh dual boot.. just sayin..
Good luck.
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Thanks a lot for all the advice - now I've some things to think about.
Definitely helpful posts
Thanks a lot
~Chris
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You made me go back to the days when I was reading and preparing weeks to months to build a computer, haven't done it for many years now.
And while we are at it here is what you can expect from a 6 core i7-4930K on the motherboard that I selected earlier and with 64 GB RAM: http://browser.primatelabs.com/geekbench3/172328 . Competitive to a entry level 8 core Mac Pro (the older ones) on the multicore and much better on the single core.
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Thanks for that comparison.
I thought I'd go for a 6-core Sandy Bridge - don't want to waste money for a later upgrade and I can still add a Quadro later (if necessary - I doubt it - I don't liquify that much ...)
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I don't know how are the prices in Europe but in US on Newegg (my usual go to site) there is minimal difference price wise between a 6 core Sandy Bridge-E and Ivy Bridge-E
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116939
vs
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116492
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I'll check again before I finally buy.
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Thanks for that comparison.
I thought I'd go for a 6-core Sandy Bridge - don't want to waste money for a later upgrade and I can still add a Quadro later (if necessary - I doubt it - I don't liquify that much ...)
For comparison this is a newly built (not yet tweaked) standard clocked Haswell build (http://bangkokdigitalimaging.com/photos/GB1.jpg). Not that much less than the six-core with twice the memory.
You don't say what you process the most of, but if you process mostly images you wouldn't realize much if any benefit going to the six-core Sandy-E. In fact, if it meant not getting the graphics card you would probably get less performance overall when compared to the Haswell WITH the graphics card.. because the graphics card power is used more evenly across the board than are the last two cores of the Sandy - E..
Something else.. you said yo were using the 64gb SSD for "acceleration purposes.." Not sure what that means. A work drive? Cache drive? Light system drive? I dunno.. But if you're not using it for a system drive then for sure get at least a 256gb Samsung Pro 840 for use as a system drive and use your current SSD for a light wokr drive or whatever.
Looking at your current system overall.. you're going to be stunned by either a Haswell 4 core or a Sandy E 6 core. It's hard to guess, but your current system is probably in the 5000-6000 realm. So don't think you need to get the 'most' powerful to get stunning performance. My previous system, a 5 year old 950 Intel with 12gb or RAM and a 6870 video card, and 256gb SSD (older generation). I routinely processed 5d2 and 5d3 200-400 image sessions without bottlenecking to point it slowed my personal work flow. It wasn't bad for video either. It scored 10,xxx points on this benchmark.. A quad core ivy Lenovo 530W I just built with 32gb of RAM and nice video card was in the 13,500 realm. So 18,770-22,770. You're off the chart.
Good luck..
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I was thinking 6 cores because I see my current 4 cores choking at operations like blur, sharpening, size changes and such. The Quadro if I'm not mistaken would help with certain filters, but I don't know which, just of liquify - which I hardly use - I know of. it just makes sense to me go for the cores now and update the card later (if at all) and not ugrade the CPU later to 6 cores and throw away the old one. Just don't wanna waste money.
Do the math: Scanned at 3x16=48 bit per pixel, 4000 ppi, 6x7 cm negatives - my Tiff files with dimensions of something like 9400x11000 pixels are in the 100 MP range, so 600 Megs for an unprocessed Image without layers. What I do is the usual tone adjustmants, Soft Light Layers, Luminosity masked layers, localized adjustments and such. The files easily reach 6-10 gigabyte in size. I'd prefer to keep the layers and not to flatten all time to save space. They are printed at about 300 ppi, 24x28 inch wide.
The current only SSD in my system houses the /temp file folder, the ready boost cache, the swap file and the Photoshop working directory - but I often run out of space - its too small. I want to give Photoshop a dedicated drive.
I'm quite sure that the planned upgrade with blow away my old machine - looking forward to it. In the moment - waiting for Photoshop operations to finish I am browsing the LuLa forums, reading about the new Nikon DF, reading about Fuji-X+metabones speedbooster+old Minolta glass and this kind of stuff.
So - what I need is a lot of memory to avoid swapping operations and a CPU which can handle the operations, especially certain brushes in PS lag behind when I draw.
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With your explanation, which is very useful, I just can't see the Haswell "choking." It will plough through your files like a hot knife through butter, especially with an adequate video card.
If you had said your budget was unlimited and money wasn't an issue, then sure, get the six-core for the small advantages it may offer in your current operations and possible future operations you have yet to detail. But I do think the Haswell/32gb/770 combination will perform better overall for the operations you detail, but sure.. it's easier to add a video card to boost performance but maybe not cheaper depending on the card. Do you buy a $350 770 of a $500 790 a $750 Quadro 4000 or a $1800 Quadro 5000.. just to be sure.
And there is always the 8 core Xeons, duals if dare.. :)
What we're really talking about is where the point of marginal returns are related to cost of a machine designed to process still files related to speed..
You know, it might be educational for all of us if you created an action for Photoshop CC and put up a file.. and let us run that action for you. Get some hard numbers on exactly how much time we're talking about? Then you could make an informed decision based on fact and recommendation. It might help others out too.
Back to your SSD's. This is another area where steep gains can be made.. But one which that pesky point of marginal returns cautions. Conventional use for imaging is to use a 256gb fast SSD w/TRIM for your system drive where the 256gb number leaves at least half the disk free to designate for caches. And then another, perhaps slower more economical SSD as a work drive for current files. I do this myself with a Synology 1813+ hooked up to my LAN ports for archiving at 120-140mbps. One could go further: If a Lightroom user a dedicated cache/preview SSD speeds things up. Some don't mind the cost of putting two SSD's in a RAID 0..
One more consideration while we skim this topic: Heat Kills. Noise Deafens. Manufacturers always knew this but because design all too often butted heads with performance they didn't talk a lot about it I don't particularly like Apple's new Pro design, but it really makes sense from the heat and noise perspective. Taking all but two SSD's out of case means either a TB or LAN array depending on need. Haswells are very cool CPU's even when compared to Ivy'. By keeping the mechanical hard drives out of the case, or even limiting it just one, you can easily run a sub-30c machine at idle and sub-50c loaded. With a well designed case (I prefer Lian-li) and cooler you can have all that with very little noise. In fact some would say it's silent depending on how good their ears are.
We live in good times with even better choices in technology.
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Btw, did you try overclocking? Inspired by this thread I just gave it a try (first time ever overclocking) and I got mine to 3.96 GHz (from 2.83) just by increasing the FSB, everything else is on auto. On Geekbench that's a 38% increase and the proc temp stays under 30 at idle and only very short bursts to 52-53 Celsius when Photoshop does a pano. I guess I could still push it but I can see the difference already.
If this works for you it should buy some time until you find cheaper stuff (or the next best thing is on the market).
PS. for me it means I might buy a new printer instead, one that can actually print on thicker canvas.
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Btw, did you try overclocking? Inspired by this thread I just gave it a try (first time ever overclocking) and I got mine to 3.96 GHz (from 2.83) just by increasing the FSB, everything else is on auto. On Geekbench that's a 38% increase and the proc temp stays under 30 at idle and only very short bursts to 52-53 Celsius when Photoshop does a pano. I guess I could still push it but I can see the difference already.
If this works for you it should buy some time until you find cheaper stuff (or the next best thing is on the market).
PS. for me it means I might buy a new printer instead, one that can actually print on thicker canvas.
I leave overclocking settings to "auto" in BIOS.
I never benchmarked it.
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Btw, did you try overclocking? Inspired by this thread I just gave it a try (first time ever overclocking) and I got mine to 3.96 GHz (from 2.83) just by increasing the FSB, everything else is on auto. On Geekbench that's a 38% increase and the proc temp stays under 30 at idle and only very short bursts to 52-53 Celsius when Photoshop does a pano. I guess I could still push it but I can see the difference already.
If this works for you it should buy some time until you find cheaper stuff (or the next best thing is on the market).
PS. for me it means I might buy a new printer instead, one that can actually print on thicker canvas.
Armand - There seems to be a general consensus among those who use this forum to not over clock. I have but don't any longer because I get 95% of what I need from the stock speeds of current chips. In my opinion their reluctance is roughly 50% grounded in fact, 50% misunderstandings. Let me explain.
The longevity of a electronic component is dependent to the greatest extent on two factors, heat and stable power. Unfortunately as we over clock heat increases across the board (just not the places with sensors, though a decent MB will have 12-15 sensor points) and power becomes less stable. A lose lose for the sake of a few faster clock cycles.
However, if you are careful and purchase a motherboard designed for over clocking it will be fortified to withstand a great deal more heat, and their power regulations circuits are also beefed up. Add a top quality power supply, like designed video card, a top CPU cooler, and a CPU that does well over clocking (some over clock better and safer than others) and with the understanding you'll be upgrading every 3-4 years and not trying to push it's use long after that..and you can over clock with relative safety.
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Well, I was secretly hoping it will brake so I have a very good reason to upgrade ;)
But as I said right now with usual use the CPU temperature stays under 30 C, and with heavier use goes into the 40s with rare short bursts into the lower 50s.
If it lasts I'm ok as it added just enough extra snap to the system (and LR in particular) to keep me happy: Geekbench 64bit - S 2287, M 7961, comparable to a 13" Haswell retina. I'll make sure I make daily backups. If it breaks I'll have to change the entire thing anyway, it has more than 4 years by now and I have several laptops and iPads to keep me running short term.
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Well, I was secretly hoping it will brake so I have a very good reason to upgrade ;)
But as I said right now with usual use the CPU temperature stays under 30 C, and with heavier use goes into the 40s with rare short bursts into the lower 50s.
If it lasts I'm ok as it added just enough extra snap to the system (and LR in particular) to keep me happy: Geekbench 64bit - S 2287, M 7961, comparable to a 13" Haswell retina. I'll make sure I make daily backups. If it breaks I'll have to change the entire thing anyway, it has more than 4 years by now and I have several laptops and iPads to keep me running short term.
That's a healthy way to look at things.
Keep in mind, all components are heat sensitive. Not just the CPU. Try to find a program that picks up as man of your MB's sensors as possible.. it's possible your CPU is sitting at 30c because its' got a big cooler strapped to it, but one of your bridges could be twice that.. probably isn't, but you get the point.
Also, you should know that the hotter a component runs, the worse it performs right up to the point of failure.
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I would suggest starting with quick analysis of the bottlenecks. You can use Task Manager, check activity of your hard drives watching their led diodes or you can use perfmon to get detailed view of your computer's activity. Identify if your computer runs out of physical memory, if it is hard drive activity (which can be caused with both file saving and lack of physical memory) that bothers you or the CPU. Then address the area that is the biggest impact on your workflow. If there are multiple factors and limited resources, I would personally give highest priority to a RAM upgrade - this can improve performance by an order of magnitude, next one would be an SSD drive - the performance gain is huge as well. Take a look at the Samsung EVO drives, you can get up to 1 TB. I would be considering CPU/GPU upgrade if the tools (brush etc.) were lagging or if all issues with memory and HDs were resolved. I am not sure about going to more cores vs. higher CPU frequency, though. I think it would depend on the most frequently used PS tools in your workflow and their ability to use multiple cores simultaneously.
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Already done:
- CPUs: All flat filled
- RAM: Full
- Disk activity: Insane lot
This PC is completely overloaded.
I'll work on an action to make benchmark that makes sense.
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- Should I go for 16, 32 or 64 Gigs of RAM? Which type/brand of RAM?
This depends on your file sizes, number of levels, bit depth, number of cache levels, history states, memory allocation % etc. Task Manager could give you a clue how much memory is needed as well as the efficiency indicator (http://www.thegraphicmac.com/observe-photoshops-scratch-disk-use-with-the-efficiency-monitor)
Some generic reading is here:
http://helpx.adobe.com/photoshop/kb/optimize-performance-photoshop-cs4-cs5.html#main_Memory_Usage
- Processor: i5, i7 ? Which type and features give me what?
The latest generation is called Haswell. It does not do much more than the previous generation in desktops, but apparently generates less heat. i7 is higher performance than i5 and is generally available with more cores. Besides number of cores and frequency, another interesting parameter is cache size. Bigger cache means that the CPU can process some memory - intensive task faster, because accessing cache is faster than accessing RAM. CPUs with greater cache are also more expensive and I suspect the performance boost is most likely not as big as to justify the cost increase (compared to SSD, for example). I haven't done any comparisons, though.
- Mainboard: I have no clue what to look for, only that ATX form factor fits my current rig.
Look at something form reputable brand that supports the Haswell chips and has a 5 star rating on newegg. If you want 32G or more memory, make sure your selected motherboard actually supports it. Buy the motherboard before you buy memory - some motherboards may support special memory configurations where you can get better performance if you use specific number of memory modules (e.g. quad channel).
- Second SSD: Size? Brand?
Again, I would look at ratings at newegg and other sites. My favorite is the Samsung EVO 840. You can get 1TB for $600 and the performance is pretty good.
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Already done:
- CPUs: All flat filled
- RAM: Full
- Disk activity: Insane lot
This PC is completely overloaded.
I'll work on an action to make benchmark that makes sense.
Reading your wish list, perhaps the best upgrade would be to leave your computer as is and switch over to Leica M (or the new Sony Alpha 7). Your current computer could handle the files just fine. Not what you wanted to hear, but trying to think out of the box...
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Reading your wish list, perhaps the best upgrade would be to leave your computer as is and switch over to Leica M (or the new Sony Alpha 7). Your current computer could handle the files just fine. Not what you wanted to hear, but trying to think out of the box...
My Mamiya smokes these .... no way to change.
My .plan for cameras is a Fuji X and a Digital back+Tech camera in the future.
:D
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Some reading on the subject from Adobe: http://blogs.adobe.com/crawlspace/2012/10/how-to-tune-photoshop-cs6-for-peak-performance.html
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Was watching this thread for some time.
Will you please sum up with the final configuration, so that I too can 'build' one system?
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It will take some time, but I will post.
In the moment I am thinking about a possible PCI-E SSD, but these are terribly expensive.
I'll most likely go for a 6 core i7, 64 Gigs RAM and a some SATA SSDs.
With the RAM I am not entirely sure if I should go for speed or latency, probably speed helps more than latency with my large files.
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The more I think about the more it looks that you might be overdoing it, besides the fact I'm not sure you would be able to stay within your budget. If you really want to go this direction I would look at a motherboard that has thunderbolt also.
This link posted in another thread here is pretty eye opening: http://anandtech.com/bench/CPU/25
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The more I think about the more it looks that you might be overdoing it, besides the fact I'm not sure you would be able to stay within your budget. If you really want to go this direction I would look at a motherboard that has thunderbolt also.
This link posted in another thread here is pretty eye opening: http://anandtech.com/bench/CPU/25
For many years, decades even, we've been conditioned to buy the most powerful computer out there.. and still not have enough. But over the last 4-5 years hardware has outpaced software to the point where using the old mindset it's easy to exceed the point of marginal returns as related to productivity. I use the "point of marginal returns as related to productivity" phrase because no one should be telling anyone else what they "need" or "want", because it can always be taken in a negative way. It's simply easier to say "for your uses, running your software, you won't notice any appreciable gains past this much power... " And even then they look at you like selling Dr. Nechams Spirit Water out of a covered wagon down by the train depot..
It's tough when the persons last frame of reference is a 3-5 year old system that takes then the better part of a cheese sandwich to render a pano, and you're working with the newest/fastest every day. But hey, if you're got the funding then get the best and enjoy.
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I have always bought technology 1 or 2 generations behind, usually at an edge where a next generation was about to come, so things got cheap.
Since I don't have to do everything in one step I can upgrade bit by bit and see what it helps.
The first step will be Mainboard, CPU and Memory.
After that I'll check my disc configuration.
These PCIe discs are quite expensive, but incredibly fast in the same moment.
I expect them to drop in price in future.
So - no need to worry about my purse. ;)
Cheers
~Chris
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Did you consider SSD in RAID0?
You might get close speed wise and maybe cheaper?! Use 2 smaller ones (120 GB or so for each) for the system (if your motherboard supports booting from a RAID) and 2 larger ones for the work drive, or at least where you will have the most used files.
As I said before for me overclocking the CPU by 40% and 2 SSD in RAID0 as a work drive are doing the trick ( and changing some fans to make the damn thing quiet again). Looking at the link from anand the 4770k seems to be around the sweet point unless the apps that you have really know how to use more than 4 cores.
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I have always bought technology 1 or 2 generations behind, usually at an edge where a next generation was about to come, so things got cheap.
Since I don't have to do everything in one step I can upgrade bit by bit and see what it helps.
The first step will be Mainboard, CPU and Memory.
After that I'll check my disc configuration.
These PCIe discs are quite expensive, but incredibly fast in the same moment.
I expect them to drop in price in future.
So - no need to worry about my purse. ;)
Cheers
~Chris
In that case consider a server class MB with a couple 12 core CPU's and 256gb of RAM.. ::)
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I don't know about Christoph but as un update for my part I will likely order this configuration in the next week:
Intel i7-4790
Noctua NH-U12S
Asus Z97 Pro
GSkill Ripjaws X series 32 GB @ 1600
Samsung 840 EVO 500 GB *
WD Black 3TB x2 (in RAID 1)
Asus GTX 750 Ti (I think it was Asus, I don't have the exact list in front of me)
SeaSonic SS-KM3 750W
Asus ThunderboltEX
Win 8.1 Pro (not excited about it but it's probably faster and more future proof than 7)
* still some uncertainty regarding the SSD configuration.
I was set on the Samsung 840 Pro 256 GB but for 20% more money I get double the capacity and 3-5% less performance. Unlikely that I'll keep it long enough for the shorter life expectancy to be an issue.
Another option for the boot drive would be to use the m.2 interface from Crucial or Intel or a PCI express from Plextor or Asus, with small improvement in the real world performance.
The second SSD issue is if I'm still going the use the 2 Crucial M500 960GB that I have right now in RAID 0 as a work drive, I'm tempted to just use them in an external enclosure for a fast shockproof travel backup drive ( in RAID 0 or 1)
Right now the entire thing ends up around $2200.
PS. No gaming. LR mostly and probably more Photoshop. Occasional 1080p video editing, up to few hours in a month.
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I just put together the following high end system, for photo and video editing.
The first three components in this list were hand picked to work together, CPU-Motherboard-Memory and water cooling is a must, if your planning to overclock.
The G.SKILL Ripjaws Z Series 64GB (8 x 8GB) 2133 OC is a match to the CPU and motherboard, its important to use this Ram as other brands may have problems.
When you purchase ram, always buy a matched set, you should never buy say 32GB and then add more down the road.
I've been researching this system for almost a year now, and with tax return money in hand, I pulled the plug and sent off my order to Newegg a few weeks ago.
Don't even think about the Sandy Bridge-E the Ivy Bridge-E replaced it, its more or less the same price as well.
All for under $3000.00 But to be honest I've already added two more SSD and a 3TB HD
Intel Core i7-4930K Ivy Bridge-E 3.4GHz
LGA 2011 130W Desktop Processor
ASUS Rampage IV Black Edition LGA 2011 Intel X79
SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 Extended ATX Intel Motherboard
G.SKILL Ripjaws Z Series 64GB (8 x 8GB)
240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 2133 (PC3 17000)
Desktop Memory Model
F3-17000CL11Q2-64GBZLD
NVIDIA® Quadro® K2000
SeaSonic Platinum SS-860XP2 860W ATX12V / EPS12V SLI Ready CrossFire Ready
80 PLUS PLATINUM Certified Full Modular
Active PFC Power Supply New 4th Gen CPU Certified Haswell Ready
SAMSUNG 840 Pro Series MZ-7PD256BW
2.5" 256GB SATA III MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD)
Thermaltake Water 2.0 Extreme/All In One Liquid Cooling System CLW0217
Cooler Master HAF X - Full Tower Computer Case
with High Airflow Windowed Side Panel and USB 3.0
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Mine is coming tomorrow, I'll post some benchmarks when I get it settled.
I was quite tempted by an Ivy Bridge-E with 64GB but seemed a little excessive, time will tell. I would have taken the 64 GB but not the 6-core, but then again I won't do much video editing.
Btw, my configuration would have gone above 3k as far as I recall.
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Here is the Geekbench scoring: http://browser.primatelabs.com/geekbench3/585246
Most of the software installed, antivirus running.
On a side note the Samsung EVO 500GB read speed in Samsung Magician was 700, I'm not sure how it's possible, should be lower.
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From the described builds on this thread, I would note that most people are putting in power supplies that are way overboard in terms of wattage. If you are only running a single GPU you honestly don't need more than 600W PSUs (550W PSUs are probably the sweet spot here). the higher wattage PSUs are really only for those who are running dual CPUs.
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You are right that for my build is way more than needed.
I was initially set on a 500 to 620 range, but I changed the rationale and went overboard so that the fan doesn't get activated too often - it does only when it gets over 50%, so I can have it as little noise as possible.
I was tempted by one of the silent versions but the complains about the coil whine made me reconsider.
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You are right that for my build is way more than needed.
I was initially set on a 500 to 620 range, but I changed the rationale and went overboard so that the fan doesn't get activated too often - it does only when it gets over 50%, so I can have it as little noise as possible.
I was tempted by one of the silent versions but the complains about the coil whine made me reconsider.
Personally I think a few dollars more spent on a better quality and then a larger capacity power supply is the single best thing they can do for themselves. Not having the fan come on is a bonus.. I enjoy that as well. What this is telling you is that your power supply is operating under 50% capacity.. and 50% capacity it where a power supply is most efficient and produces the cleanest power.. it gets worse the more you use. And if you get a Platinum or even a Gold you won't be using hardly any more electricity in the process.. I say a wise decision.
Now.. if you're buying PC's for a office and you're buying 1200 of them.. then saving $30 on a power supply whose capacity is "nice to have but not essential" starts to make economic sense. But heck, our personal machines are personal.. this is the time to splurge a bit and drive the Veyron of computers if you're so inclined. Its just not enough money to worry about.. But if you don't have to hear a fan going on/off and whirring away. PRICELESS. My fan never goes on unless I hit 90% of greater overall load.
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Initially I thought my build is not quieter than my old one (an Antec case where I placed some very heavy foam on the side panels) but now after the fans ran for a little it is quieter towards practically silent. The current case is a Fractal Design Define R4, everything else I already mentioned in an earlier post. It also helps the main system and the work drive are only on SSDs, probably the video card and the front case fan make the most noise.
Also the newer Asus motherboards have this 5 engine optimization. I don't know exactly what it does but after I ran it the 64-bit Geekbench score went from 3955/15031 (single thread/multithread) to 4050/16107 which is better than any iMac on the market.
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Personally I think a few dollars more spent on a better quality and then a larger capacity power supply is the single best thing they can do for themselves. Not having the fan come on is a bonus.. I enjoy that as well. What this is telling you is that your power supply is operating under 50% capacity.. and 50% capacity it where a power supply is most efficient and produces the cleanest power.. it gets worse the more you use. And if you get a Platinum or even a Gold you won't be using hardly any more electricity in the process.. I say a wise decision.
Now.. if you're buying PC's for a office and you're buying 1200 of them.. then saving $30 on a power supply whose capacity is "nice to have but not essential" starts to make economic sense. But heck, our personal machines are personal.. this is the time to splurge a bit and drive the Veyron of computers if you're so inclined. Its just not enough money to worry about.. But if you don't have to hear a fan going on/off and whirring away. PRICELESS. My fan never goes on unless I hit 90% of greater overall load.
My thoughts exactly Steve. This system sits on top of my desk right now, and its so quiet, I'm thinking about leaving it there permanently.
The CoolerMaster case was purchased for its large interior with lots of room for the water cooling and radiator, and great air flow with 4 case fans.
But it also has a window, and the fans have LED lights on them. To be honest, I didn't really care about the lights and window when I chose this case, but there kind of cool, and then there's the overclocking panel that comes with the motherboard, fits in one of the 5.25" slots, shows CPU temp, fan speed overclocking info, all gamer stuff I guess.
Just started working on a 60 image pano, compared to my old machine (vintage 2004) well, goes without saying.
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Initially I thought my build is not quieter than my old one (an Antec case where I placed some very heavy foam on the side panels) but now after the fans ran for a little it is quieter towards practically silent. The current case is a Fractal Design Define R4, everything else I already mentioned in an earlier post. It also helps the main system and the work drive are only on SSDs, probably the video card and the front case fan make the most noise.
Also the newer Asus motherboards have this 5 engine optimization. I don't know exactly what it does but after I ran it the 64-bit Geekbench score went from 3955/15031 (single thread/multithread) to 4050/16107 which is better than any iMac on the market.
Armand - Did you know most foam of this nature is flammable? And they excise chemicals for a long time. Far better is something like this (http://www.frozencpu.com/products/10246/snd-39/Lian_Li_PT-SI02_Noise_Reduction_Foam_Kit_-_Full_Tower_-_3_Piece.html?tl=g33c117s1171)(this site has several different types) as you can seal 4 of the six sides. With some of the 1" stick on foam you can seal drive bays and isolate noise and air flow even further.
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Armand - Did you know most foam of this nature is flammable? And they excise chemicals for a long time. Far better is something like this (http://www.frozencpu.com/products/10246/snd-39/Lian_Li_PT-SI02_Noise_Reduction_Foam_Kit_-_Full_Tower_-_3_Piece.html?tl=g33c117s1171)(this site has several different types) as you can seal 4 of the six sides. With some of the 1" stick on foam you can seal drive bays and isolate noise and air flow even further.
I'll rephrase it, I used something like this: http://www.homedepot.com/p/Apache-Mills-Gray-24-in-x-36-in-Commercial-Vinyl-Foam-Cushion-Mat-60-160-0700-20000300/100671773?N=5yc1vZc9a5Z1z13zy8
While I don't how resistant is to fire it's not that flammable. It is effective for noise cancellation and my last computer had no weird work done that made it more prone to fire.
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I'll rephrase it, I used something like this: http://www.homedepot.com/p/Apache-Mills-Gray-24-in-x-36-in-Commercial-Vinyl-Foam-Cushion-Mat-60-160-0700-20000300/100671773?N=5yc1vZc9a5Z1z13zy8
While I don't how resistant is to fire it's not that flammable. It is effective for noise cancellation and my last computer had no weird work done that made it more prone to fire.
Totally different than what I envisioned reading your post.. this works. Probably not as effective (db reduction measured in relation to thickness) as dedicated sound deadener but good enough.
It's surprising how effective these dedicated stick on sheets are. I use bits and pieces of automotive Dynamat left over from car projects on each build to stop vibration.. if I was after the most effective reduction at any cost I'd use it on all sides. Pretty amazing stuff.