Luminous Landscape Forum

Site & Board Matters => About This Site => Topic started by: tom b on October 21, 2013, 08:45:04 pm

Title: A plague of double spaces
Post by: tom b on October 21, 2013, 08:45:04 pm
Forty years ago when I started B&W printing dust spots were evil and had to be spotted out.

Twenty years ago when I started basic typography on a computer double spaces especially after a period were also evil. If you look at any professionally designed book, magazine or website it is the same, one space after a period.

For some reason there seems to be an outbreak of users of this site that think we are in the age of the typewriter.

Please, one space after a period, you are hurting my eyes.

Cheers,
Title: Re: A plague of double spaces
Post by: BernardLanguillier on October 21, 2013, 09:37:16 pm
Agreed!

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: A plague of double spaces
Post by: Robert Roaldi on October 21, 2013, 10:16:29 pm
That's only true in the English speaking world. Others may be used to 2 spaces.
Title: Re: A plague of double spaces
Post by: tom b on October 21, 2013, 10:29:52 pm
That's only true in the English speaking world. Others may be used to 2 spaces.

This is an English speaking site.

Cheers,
Title: Re: A plague of double spaces
Post by: Wayne Fox on October 21, 2013, 10:50:30 pm
hmmm.  having a bad day?  Sorry but I learned to type in 1969, and double spacing after a period was ingrained and a habit impossible to break by the time computers came along in the early 80's for me.  I guess you can set me to ignore so you don't have to see my doubles spaces.

I think  when writing posts most people don't worry too much about such things, and intersperse it with shortcuts and acronyms to save time.  At least LuLa isn't full of #hashtag addicts ... I assume you don't hang out on twitter much ... you'd prob. want to slit your wrists.
Title: Re: A plague of double spaces
Post by: tom b on October 21, 2013, 11:43:57 pm
hmmm.  having a bad day?  Sorry but I learned to type in 1969, and double spacing after a period was ingrained and a habit impossible to break by the time computers came along in the early 80's for me.  I guess you can set me to ignore so you don't have to see my doubles spaces.

I think  when writing posts most people don't worry too much about such things, and intersperse it with shortcuts and acronyms to save time.  At least LuLa isn't full of #hashtag addicts ... I assume you don't hang out on twitter much ... you'd prob. want to slit your wrists.

I worked as an illustrator for fourteen years, mainly the type of illustrations that you would find in a Science textbook. If I sent out an illustration with a double space in it then it would bounce back to me very quickly for correction.

Two spaces after a period was designed for monospaced type such as in typewriters. I haven't used a typewriter in over twenty years as I guess have the vast majority of LuLa users. What I don't understand is why over the last month or so there seems to be an increase in the number of people using double spaces not a decrease.

So please, use one space, think of all the keystrokes you will save…

Oh, an ellipsis (…) is one character, alt 0133 on a PC and option ; on a Mac, but I will leave that rant alone as it is a war that I will never win.

Cheers,
Title: Re: A plague of double spaces
Post by: Eric Myrvaagnes on October 21, 2013, 11:54:26 pm
To … or to ... ; that is the question.
Title: Re: A plague of double spaces
Post by: SunnyUK on October 22, 2013, 01:53:01 am
This is why HTML ignores superfluous white space.  It was designed to separate layout and content.  So instead of moaning about people who write the way they want and like, moan about crappy forum software which can't even do the simplest presentation conversions. 

In the word processor age, I still like to double tap the spacebar after a full stop, and double tap the enter key after a paragraph.  Completely unnecessary as the software can format really well on its own, but the audible and sensory feedback of the double tap is very pleasing.  It feels final. 
Title: Re: A plague of double spaces
Post by: Floyd Davidson on October 22, 2013, 02:21:23 am
Twenty years ago when I started basic typography on a computer double spaces especially after a period were also evil. If you look at any professionally designed book, magazine or website it is the same, one space after a period.

Sorry, but I just can't buy into the claim that it was "evil".  I started doing typography (nroff, groff and TeX) on computers 30 years ago and to this date I still see nothing "evil", either with 2 spaces. 1 space, or 1-1/2 spaces (granted I distinctly dislike no space).  Which I use depends on what the work is supposed to look like.  I'm the kind of guy that literally goes over things with a magnifying glass, and might move parens up or down a point or two, commonly moves the dash in a telephone number up or down a point or two, and yes I use different spacing between sentences.

Which is to say that I am extremely critical about the form of work that I produce.

Quote
For some reason there seems to be an outbreak of users of this site that think we are in the age of the typewriter.

Please, one space after a period, you are hurting my eyes.


Oh, Puleeze!

I could care less whether someone else uses two spaces or one after a period. It's a matter of personal style, there is no right or wrong as such.  If the boss, or the specified style guide, says this or that, do it.  Otherwise, take your pick.  Who cares!

And note that almost all style guides will say that 1 space is more common, and 2 spaces is not wrong.

Title: Re: A plague of double spaces
Post by: daws on October 22, 2013, 03:51:27 am
A screenwriter friend of long acquaintance doublespaces at the end of every sentence, and proudly proclaims that it fills pages faster with fewer words.

For 29 years it has been my honor and duty to scrupulously single-space, just to piss him off.  ;D
Title: Re: A plague of double spaces
Post by: OldRoy on October 22, 2013, 04:43:41 am
Compared to the typographical atrocity constituted by a layout of 100+ sans serif characters per line, WOB, the odd double space after a stop hardly registers.
 :)
Is  :) allowed?
Roy
Title: Re: A plague of double spaces
Post by: john beardsworth on October 22, 2013, 04:43:50 am
I happen to prefer single spaces, but the lines here are much wider than in a newspaper column, so double spaces are much less liable to produce the gaps on successive lines which negatively impact a paragraph's readability. So I find it hard to see how they bear comparison with dust spots. However, misused apostrophes....
Title: Re: A plague of double spaces
Post by: Chairman Bill on October 22, 2013, 05:09:50 am
I could care less ...

No, it's 'I couldn't care less', as in 'I care so little that it would be impossible to care less about this topic'. As for how many spaces you have after a full-stop/period, I couldn't care less.
Title: Re: A plague of double spaces
Post by: BernardLanguillier on October 22, 2013, 05:34:21 am
That's only true in the English speaking world. Others may be used to 2 spaces.

Nope, it is the same in French for example.

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: A plague of double spaces
Post by: Floyd Davidson on October 22, 2013, 06:08:14 am
No, it's 'I couldn't care less', as in 'I care so little that it would be impossible to care less about this topic'. As for how many spaces you have after a full-stop/period, I couldn't care less.

I could care less about that too, but as with the previous situation it's more trouble than I'm willing to exert.
Title: Re: A plague of double spaces
Post by: Floyd Davidson on October 22, 2013, 06:10:38 am
Compared to the typographical atrocity constituted by a layout of 100+ sans serif characters per line, WOB, the odd double space after a stop hardly registers.

And that actually is something to be concerned about!
Title: Re: A plague of double spaces
Post by: JeanMichel on October 22, 2013, 10:57:43 am
To anyone interested in typography, I suggest obtaining a copy of The Elements of Typographic Style by Robert Bringhurst. It is a most useful reference, written by a typographer and poet.
Jean-Michel
Title: Re: A plague of double spaces
Post by: Alan Klein on October 22, 2013, 11:01:47 am
I like two spaces.  The pause that refreshes.
Title: Re: A plague of double spaces
Post by: Alan Klein on October 22, 2013, 11:13:50 am
Which program adds a period automatically if you double space?  The program assumes you missed typing the period.
Title: Re: A plague of double spaces
Post by: rosswarner@rosswarner.com on October 22, 2013, 11:29:31 am
iPhone translates double space as period + space.
Title: Re: A plague of double spaces
Post by: jjj on October 22, 2013, 12:59:00 pm
iPhone translates double space as period + space.
A very handy tweak I find. One I miss when using my computer now.
Using the spacebar and not the enter key for autocorrect in iOS though, that was a special kind of stupid (http://www.damnyouautocorrect.com/66049/best/). And why I keep it turned off.
Title: Re: A plague of double spaces
Post by: jjj on October 22, 2013, 01:04:39 pm
If you are the sort of person who cares about typography, double spaces look like poor kerning and make text on this forum, even clumsier to read.
Title: Re: A plague of double spaces
Post by: kaelaria on October 22, 2013, 02:12:06 pm
Some people here be like:

(http://payload87.cargocollective.com/1/6/222050/4044817/tumblr_m8exgqjbJ01rdr8ooo1_400.jpg)
Title: Re: A plague of double spaces
Post by: Jeremy Roussak on October 22, 2013, 02:41:17 pm
If you are the sort of person who cares about typography, double spaces look like poor kerning and make text on this forum, even clumsier to read.

I do, which is why I like this (http://xkcd.com/1015/). Spurious commas are pretty annoying, too, unless of course they're ironic.

Jeremy
Title: Re: A plague of double spaces
Post by: jjj on October 22, 2013, 03:19:08 pm
Nope, just a dumb typo.
Oh and nice XKCD.
Title: Re: A plague of double spaces
Post by: AFairley on October 22, 2013, 05:28:20 pm
Sorry, but I just can't buy into the claim that it was "evil".  I started doing typography (nroff, groff and TeX) on computers 30 years ago and to this date I still see nothing "evil", either with 2 spaces. 1 space, or 1-1/2 spaces (granted I distinctly dislike no space).  Which I use depends on what the work is supposed to look like.  I'm the kind of guy that literally goes over things with a magnifying glass, and might move parens up or down a point or two, commonly moves the dash in a telephone number up or down a point or two, and yes I use different spacing between sentences.

Which is to say that I am extremely critical about the form of work that I produce.

Oh, Puleeze!

I could care less whether someone else uses two spaces or one after a period. It's a matter of personal style, there is no right or wrong as such.  If the boss, or the specified style guide, says this or that, do it.  Otherwise, take your pick.  Who cares!

And note that almost all style guides will say that 1 space is more common, and 2 spaces is not wrong.



Thank you, Floyd. I was a typesetter for years both pre- and post the advent of the personal computer, and I could give a toss about two spaces or one space or whatever.  Now can we get back to discussing important things like the D800E vs. MFDB....
Title: Re: A plague of double spaces
Post by: RobbieV on October 22, 2013, 05:38:01 pm
(http://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/images/a/a2/kerning.png)

Why try to instill your grief amongst others?
I'm a graphic communicator, and while it annoys me, I have learned to let it go.
Why waste your life getting tightly wound over a small space?


Title: Re: A plague of double spaces
Post by: jjj on October 22, 2013, 05:55:28 pm
Indeed, why bother worrying about anything in fact?
It's not like doing things well is really that important and if your composition is a bit off and people complain you cropped their head off, simply tell them to chill out.
Title: Re: A plague of double spaces
Post by: Floyd Davidson on October 22, 2013, 06:22:34 pm
Indeed, why bother worrying about anything in fact?
It's not like doing things well is really that important and if your composition is a bit off and people complain you cropped their head off, simply tell them to chill out.

It's not like those are equivalents either, and anyone who's perspective is that poor has a much bigger  problem to worry  about than pointless typography style selections.
Title: Re: A plague of double spaces
Post by: tom b on October 22, 2013, 06:29:11 pm
It's not like those are equivalents either, and anyone who's perspective is that poor has a much bigger  problem to worry  about than pointless typography style selections.

Two double spaces in one sentence, goes to to prove my point elegantly.

Cheers,
Title: Re: A plague of double spaces
Post by: Rand47 on October 22, 2013, 06:36:44 pm
 ;D  To a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

Rand
Title: Re: A plague of double spaces
Post by: jjj on October 22, 2013, 06:42:10 pm
It's not like those are equivalents either, and anyone who's perspective is that poor has a much bigger  problem to worry  about than pointless typography style selections.
Except they are equivalent, the fact you don't care about how things look/good design only means that such things do not matter to you. A quick glance at your website shows that good typography or design is very obviously of no interest to you. Or composition looking at the photos.
Title: Re: A plague of double spaces
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on October 22, 2013, 06:43:32 pm
Ah, the first-world problems! ;)