Luminous Landscape Forum

Raw & Post Processing, Printing => Digital Image Processing => Topic started by: Jack Hogan on October 08, 2013, 05:27:52 am

Title: Adobe CC: any compelling features to make one WANT to upgrade to it?
Post by: Jack Hogan on October 08, 2013, 05:27:52 am
As some of you know I mainly do landscapes for myself and I used to upgrade every other PSCS cycle.  I am currently at CS5.  Since I am happy with CNX2 as a raw converter and Windows as a DAM - and I am not planning to start using LR - I figure my PS costs averaged out at around $5/month for the last several years.

The current time-limited $9.99/month offer for CC+LR is twice my historical cost - but low enough that I could grin and bear it.  The question then becomes whether there is an actual reason for me to buy into CC. 

In other words, are there any compelling features that would make a photographer want to upgrade to CC from CS5/6?  Shake reduction and new/improved Smart Sharpen are neither here nor there to me, so I can't say I see anything that appears like a must-have feature that I don't already have (perhaps through a plug-in or third party software).   But maybe I'm missing something.  What was the killer feature that made you take the plunge?

Or is this really like Word 2007 and 2010 - the difference in functionality between the two is so limited as to appear immaterial to most people?

Cheers,
Jack
Title: Re: Adobe CC: any compelling features to make one WANT to upgrade to it?
Post by: jjj on October 08, 2013, 06:14:16 am
The improvement to your DAM functionality by using a database programme like LR over Windows is phenomenal and because LR seamlessly links into PS they work fantastically well together. And combining your processing software with your asset managing software is a huge leap in efficiency and time saving.
Do you use Bridge at all for your file management?

In my experience, every version of PS has been nicer and easier to use than previous versions. Don't just look at the fancy headline features, many times it's the small refinements that make the biggest difference in everyday use. If you use say CS6 and then go back and use CS5, you suddenly realise how much nicer the new version is to use. And one of the less obvious benefits of CC will be the fact that the engineers can spend more time on the everyday 'ordinary' features as opposed to the fancy make people upgrade whizz bang features to help market a new version.
Title: Re: Adobe CC: any compelling features to make one WANT to upgrade to it?
Post by: Simon Garrett on October 08, 2013, 06:16:12 am
As some of you know I mainly do landscapes for myself and I used to upgrade every other PSCS cycle.  I am currently at CS5.  Since I am happy with CNX2 as a raw converter and Windows as a DAM - and I am not planning to start using LR - I figure my PS costs averaged out at around $5/month for the last several years.

I used to upgrade every 2-3 PS updates but took every Lightroom update.  Even before CC, they stopped the ability to upgrade other than the latest Photoshop, so I'd stopped at CS5 like you. 

But for me, even if I could update every other PS CSx release (perhaps every 3 years) and every LR update (every 18 months or so) then the cost would be about the same as the Photoshop CC package.  In UK prices, just over £100 per year.  The fact that I use Lightroom (and update that every time) probably tips the balance for me. 

Given that this is a time-limited offer, I've gone ahead with it.  I don't like renting software.  What happens when they lose credit card details (like last week) and I have to get a new card?  If I don't update my card details online by the next billing cycle, my software gets switched off.  But I've still got my CS5 licence and an LR5 licence for that, or if I change my mind after a year. 


The current time-limited $9.99/month offer for CC+LR is twice my historical cost - but low enough that I could grin and bear it.  The question then becomes whether there is an actual reason for me to buy into CC. 

In other words, are there any compelling features that would make a photographer want to upgrade to CC from CS5/6?  Shake reduction and new/improved Smart Sharpen are neither here nor there to me, so I can't say I see anything that appears like a must-have feature that I don't already have (perhaps through a plug-in or third party software).   But maybe I'm missing something.  What was the killer feature that made you take the plunge?

In terms of features probably not.  There's not much new that's useful to me in CS6 or CC over CS5.


Or is this really like Word 2007 and 2010 - the difference in functionality between the two is so limited as to appear immaterial to most people?

Oddly, I thought the Office 2010 update was useful.  Microsoft seem to alternate good and bad releases of software; they introduce something half-baked, and sort it out next release.  Office 2007 introduced the ribbon interface.  I don't much like that, but more to the point they did it badly.  Office 2010 has few new features, but gets the ribbon sorted out better.  Office 2013 appears to be a waste of space for most people. 

So you get:
Office 2000: good
Office XP: bad
Office 2003: good
Office 2007: bad
Office 2010: good
Office 2013: bad

And:
Windows XP: good
Windows Vista: bad
Windows 7: good
Windowss 8: bad
Title: Re: Adobe CC: any compelling features to make one WANT to upgrade to it?
Post by: Simon Garrett on October 08, 2013, 06:18:32 am
If you use say CS6 and then go back and use CS5, you suddenly realise how much nicer the new version is to use.

Hm... I did just that - got to use CS6 for two weeks, then back to CS5 on my normal machine.  Apart from white-on-black UI instead of black-on-white I barely noticed the difference.  Maybe I'm just unobservant. 
Title: Re: Adobe CC: any compelling features to make one WANT to upgrade to it?
Post by: jjj on October 08, 2013, 06:25:42 am
Hm... I did just that - got to use CS6 for two weeks, then back to CS5 on my normal machine.  Apart from white-on-black UI instead of black-on-white I barely noticed the difference.  Maybe I'm just unobservant.  
Maybe you just kept using it the same way, so you wouldn't notice the differences. Two weeks really isn't very long with software as complex as PS. And you have to spend time specifically learning and finding out the new features and tricks to get the best of it. I recall looking at 'How to Use PSx' books where an author showed how to do so and so and thinking there's no point in that anymore as that's a technique you needed to do several versions back and is now no longer relevant as the programme has improved so much. All the author did was add the new whizz bang features to a 'how to..' book from  previous versions and didn't look into the details or didn't notice them as they had set habits in how to do certain things.

Oh and the dark interface was a loooong overdue improvement.
Title: Re: Adobe CC: any compelling features to make one WANT to upgrade to it?
Post by: Martin Kristiansen on October 08, 2013, 10:10:35 am
Enhancements to the pen tool are great, I use that a lot with deep etching. A little thing but saves a lot of time.

I could be wrong but I think to use the camera raw editing tools in photoshop you had to convert to a smart object. Anyway I use the colour correction tools of CR quite a lot and they are under the filter menu. Sorry if I am wrong about that.
Title: Re: Adobe CC: any compelling features to make one WANT to upgrade to it?
Post by: kjkahn on October 08, 2013, 11:32:42 am
Two features in CC I really like:

1. I always liked the ACR sharpening tools better than those in PS. Now, with the ability to use ACR as a filter, I can use the ACR sharpening tools, along with the adjustment brush, for output sharpening as well as for capture sharpening.


2. I really like the new tools for removing perspective distortion (also accessed by Filter|Camera Raw Filter).
Title: Re: Adobe CC: any compelling features to make one WANT to upgrade to it?
Post by: Jack Hogan on October 08, 2013, 01:11:23 pm
Hmmm, mostly nice to haves.  Any MUST haves?
Title: Re: Adobe CC: any compelling features to make one WANT to upgrade to it?
Post by: Martin Kristiansen on October 08, 2013, 01:41:02 pm
It is PS. Not food. There are no "must haves" in PS. There are only things that save you time and things that make you money. If the time saved equates to a saving greater than the cost of the software then it becomes "sensible to have" or perhaps even a "stupid not to have".

Depends on your workflow and charge out rate really.
Title: Re: Adobe CC: any compelling features to make one WANT to upgrade to it?
Post by: chez on October 08, 2013, 02:22:10 pm
It is PS. Not food. There are no "must haves" in PS. There are only things that save you time and things that make you money. If the time saved equates to a saving greater than the cost of the software then it becomes "sensible to have" or perhaps even a "stupid not to have".

Depends on your workflow and charge out rate really.

Yeh, for $10/month, saving just 10 minutes in processing time over the entire month pays back the cost. People squabbling about the cost really need to look at how they value their time.
Title: Re: Adobe CC: any compelling features to make one WANT to upgrade to it?
Post by: Jack Hogan on October 08, 2013, 04:46:54 pm
Yeh, for $10/month, saving just 10 minutes in processing time over the entire month pays back the cost. People squabbling about the cost really need to look at how they value their time.

Yes, and that's exactly my point.  Money is no longer an issue.  So what time saving features (photography) made you want to subscribe versus what you had before?
Title: Re: Adobe CC: any compelling features to make one WANT to upgrade to it?
Post by: Simon Garrett on October 08, 2013, 04:49:16 pm
Yeh, for $10/month, saving just 10 minutes in processing time over the entire month pays back the cost. People squabbling about the cost really need to look at how they value their time.
For professionals, yes - provided CC really does save them time.  But amateurs don't value their time at $60 an hour. 

Title: Re: Adobe CC: any compelling features to make one WANT to upgrade to it?
Post by: Jack Hogan on October 08, 2013, 04:51:31 pm
It is PS. Not food. There are no "must haves" in PS. There are only things that save you time and things that make you money. If the time saved equates to a saving greater than the cost of the software then it becomes "sensible to have" or perhaps even a "stupid not to have".

Depends on your workflow and charge out rate really.

Fair enough, although time is not of the essence in my case as my 'clients' are patient :-)  Is there a specific feature you desired (or that saves you time if you prefer) that made you want to upgrade?
Title: Re: Adobe CC: any compelling features to make one WANT to upgrade to it?
Post by: Rhossydd on October 08, 2013, 05:02:34 pm
If you're curious about what CC has to offer you, why not just download the trial version and see for yourself what improvements it has ?
Title: Re: Adobe CC: any compelling features to make one WANT to upgrade to it?
Post by: chez on October 08, 2013, 09:03:46 pm
For professionals, yes - provided CC really does save them time.  But amateurs don't value their time at $60 an hour. 



Really? My free time whether I'm a professional or not is still my free time. If I can spend less time behind a computer and more time out shooting or watching the game on the tube...is that not worth something to you? Sometimes amateurs have even less time to spend on their hobby making savings in processing even more important.
Title: Re: Adobe CC: any compelling features to make one WANT to upgrade to it?
Post by: LesPalenik on October 08, 2013, 11:22:43 pm
In contrast to the OP, I thought that the Camera Shake reduction might be the thing that would entice me to switch.
I have seen Adobe demo with the pink flower and that looks quite impressive. On the other hand, I heard that this tool doesn't work everytime and often introduces artifacts and too much sharpening.

I have some less than optimal images taken handheld with a long lens and wonder how effective this tool would be in fixing slight camera motion blur and ghosting.


 
Title: Re: Adobe CC: any compelling features to make one WANT to upgrade to it?
Post by: Martin Kristiansen on October 09, 2013, 04:12:45 am
Generally I don't use the camera shake filter, I usually use tripods. Actually I pretty much always use tripods unless I am using the large studio camera stand.

I used it on one occasion when the client asked a model to jump and before I could adjust shutter speed she jumped, I shot and we got a great image I couldn't replicate despite trying. Problem was it had a bit of motion brur on her face hands and feet. I gave it a try with camera shake, although it wasn't technically camera shake, and it saved the shot. Paid a few months of CC subscription that image did.

It's not a bad filter at all. Has sliders for artifact suppression and so on. Also with a bit of a brain you can figure out to put it on a layer and blend back the bits you want and leave out those that are not working.

Anyway, as I said, the pen tool enhancements alone more than save me the subscription price per month.
Title: Re: Adobe CC: any compelling features to make one WANT to upgrade to it?
Post by: Bart_van_der_Wolf on October 09, 2013, 04:35:29 am
I have some less than optimal images taken handheld with a long lens and wonder how effective this tool would be in fixing slight camera motion blur and ghosting.

Hi,

There are several alternatives for attempting to salvage those isolated cases. You could try DeblurMyimage (http://www.adptools.com/en/deblurmyimage-description.html).

Cheers,
Bart
Title: Re: Adobe CC: any compelling features to make one WANT to upgrade to it?
Post by: smahn on October 09, 2013, 10:55:14 am

Anyway, as I said, the pen tool enhancements alone more than save me the subscription price per month.

Could you elaborate a bit on these pen tool enhancements. My google prowess seems inadequate. Something about moving an anchor point with the space bar?
Title: Re: Adobe CC: any compelling features to make one WANT to upgrade to it?
Post by: Martin Kristiansen on October 09, 2013, 11:56:35 am
It is a feature that I believe the pen tool in illustrator has had for a while. It occurs when working quickly with the pen tool that you place an anchor point a few pixels out. In the past you have have to go to the select point tool and move it into place or nudge it using the arrow keys. With the new behavior you simply hold down the space bar before dropping the point and you can move it into place. This works even if you have the anchor point by the handle.

Sounds like no big deal but as I said. Saves seconds every time and that quickly becomes minutes and hours.
Title: Re: Adobe CC: any compelling features to make one WANT to upgrade to it?
Post by: Rhossydd on October 09, 2013, 12:06:03 pm
Saves seconds every time and that quickly becomes minutes and hours.
IF you use the pen tool.

I've never used it.
Title: Re: Adobe CC: any compelling features to make one WANT to upgrade to it?
Post by: Simon Garrett on October 09, 2013, 12:24:25 pm
Really? My free time whether I'm a professional or not is still my free time. If I can spend less time behind a computer and more time out shooting or watching the game on the tube...is that not worth something to you? Sometimes amateurs have even less time to spend on their hobby making savings in processing even more important.
Trading time saved against the cost of the means to save that time makes sense only if you can sell that time you have saved.  If it means you spend 10 minutes less using Photoshop and 10 minutes more earning at a rate of an additional $60 an hour then it's a good business decision. 

If you're not paid for your time, but you choose to value your free time at $60 an hour, fine - but you're still $10 a month worse off in cash terms. 

Title: Re: Adobe CC: any compelling features to make one WANT to upgrade to it?
Post by: smahn on October 09, 2013, 12:51:23 pm
It is a feature that I believe the pen tool in illustrator has had for a while. It occurs when working quickly with the pen tool that you place an anchor point a few pixels out. In the past you have have to go to the select point tool and move it into place or nudge it using the arrow keys. With the new behavior you simply hold down the space bar before dropping the point and you can move it into place. This works even if you have the anchor point by the handle.

Sounds like no big deal but as I said. Saves seconds every time and that quickly becomes minutes and hours.

I'm a big-time pen tool user, so I'd like to understand this, but I don't want to waste a CC trial yet as I don't plan on subscribing for quite some time (Like until they advance the whole pen pallet (path groups and colors, for instance) and make the paths more visible, to make me run to subscribe).

As things stand now as soon as you lay down a point it can be nudged with the arrow tools. Similarly, one can use the cmd/ctl key to turn the pen into the direct select tool on the fly, select a point and then nudge.

So I'm just not getting how introducing the spacebar into the mix is an advantage.  

And again, I'm not trying to challenge or debate you on this, just to wrap my head around it. How did you learn of this, is there a good tutorial on it you could point me to?
Title: Re: Adobe CC: any compelling features to make one WANT to upgrade to it?
Post by: Martin Kristiansen on October 09, 2013, 01:33:54 pm
My finger is constantly hovering over the space bar to quickly move the canvas anyway as I deep etch. Instead of having to use the command key to move the point you have just dropped you simply press the space bar before releasing the point. This allows you to reposition it. I usually notice the point is slightly out as I drag out the handles. While I have hold of the handle I press the space bar and can now move the anchor point, handles and all in one simple movement.

Hope that helps.
Title: Re: Adobe CC: any compelling features to make one WANT to upgrade to it?
Post by: eddy1234 on October 09, 2013, 02:21:44 pm
I'm currently using Photoshop CS5, and to be honest, i could probably work with Adobe Photoshop 7, there isnt a MASSIVE need to upgrade every single time
Title: Re: Adobe CC: any compelling features to make one WANT to upgrade to it?
Post by: smahn on October 09, 2013, 02:52:11 pm
Thanks Martin, that helps. I'll just have to mess with it myself sometime.
Title: Re: Adobe CC: any compelling features to make one WANT to upgrade to it?
Post by: chez on October 09, 2013, 08:28:55 pm
Trading time saved against the cost of the means to save that time makes sense only if you can sell that time you have saved.  If it means you spend 10 minutes less using Photoshop and 10 minutes more earning at a rate of an additional $60 an hour then it's a good business decision. 

If you're not paid for your time, but you choose to value your free time at $60 an hour, fine - but you're still $10 a month worse off in cash terms. 



I think most people value their free time....I know I sure do. There are many things in life that we spend money on for just enjoyment...do you value spending money on things you enjoy as being worse off in cash terms. Is that how you look at things when you have a nice cold beer on your deck or that nice coffee in the morning. They just make you "worse off in cash terms"?
Title: Re: Adobe CC: any compelling features to make one WANT to upgrade to it?
Post by: ButchM on October 10, 2013, 03:47:27 am
I think most people value their free time....I know I sure do. There are many things in life that we spend money on for just enjoyment...do you value spending money on things you enjoy as being worse off in cash terms. Is that how you look at things when you have a nice cold beer on your deck or that nice coffee in the morning. They just make you "worse off in cash terms"?

Well ... there are a few glaring issues with your comparison ... first, if there were only one source for coffee or beer and they manipulated their business model into only one option to purchase those items ... with the deck stacked in their favor, not the customer's interests ... how would that method fly? Even if it was affordable on the surface for the short term.

There is much more to consider here than the cost of entry. Even if we have an appreciation for Photoshop and desire to use it in the future, CC really isn't a modest commodity purchase you can accurately equate with buying coffee or beer ... there are many, many more options available to consumers than Starbucks and Anheuser-Busch ... they both must compete head-to-head with many other outlets that offer similar quality products ... for that reason alone, they could never force a 'til death do us part subscription model ... yet so many would have us believe that we should avail ourselves to such a model for Photoshop without question.

It would be nice if you could address the OP's question with specifics as to how features only available in Ps CC have enhanced your bottom line ... instead of the general platitudes of cost comparisons to disposable commodities. We are already well aware of the current price tag ... what would be helpful is if you shared, in detail, how you save time using CC ... That information would go much further in shaping our decisions rather than only equating CC with your beverage of choice ...
Title: Re: Adobe CC: any compelling features to make one WANT to upgrade to it?
Post by: Martin Kristiansen on October 10, 2013, 05:12:22 am
We were, well some of us were, explaining what features we use in CC that save us money. Mine is the pen tool. Have a bunch of deep etching I am off to do today and will save another chunk of time.

What isn't useful is when someone like myself explains how I save time with a CC feature to have a bunch of people explain how I could do that in another program. Or to say so what there time isn't that valuable. Or to get into a debate about coffee.

Good grief.
Title: Re: Adobe CC: any compelling features to make one WANT to upgrade to it?
Post by: Simon Garrett on October 10, 2013, 07:49:30 am
Is that how you look at things when you have a nice cold beer on your deck or that nice coffee in the morning. They just make you "worse off in cash terms"?

Of course not; I'll admit to enjoying both beer and coffee.  But having a beer or a coffee doesn't save me money. 

Similarly, spending $10 a month on Photoshop CC (or the UK equivalent in my case) doesn't save me money by providing me with better tools and thus saving me time.  But, like the beer and coffee, I've bought it anyway!

I'm just making the (obvious) point that for an amateur there's a whole different value equation in judging whether spending $10 a month on Photoshop CC is a good idea.  Time does not usually equate to money for an amateur user.  In fact it sometimes doesn't for businesses either: I've seen many silly arguments about how an investment could pay back in saved time, when that saved time isn't going to lead to more money-earning business.  Been there, done that, got the war wounds from people keen to waste company money on new toys. 
Title: Re: Adobe CC: any compelling features to make one WANT to upgrade to it?
Post by: chez on October 10, 2013, 08:01:30 am
Well ... there are a few glaring issues with your comparison ... first, if there were only one source for coffee or beer and they manipulated their business model into only one option to purchase those items ... with the deck stacked in their favor, not the customer's interests ... how would that method fly? Even if it was affordable on the surface for the short term.

There is much more to consider here than the cost of entry. Even if we have an appreciation for Photoshop and desire to use it in the future, CC really isn't a modest commodity purchase you can accurately equate with buying coffee or beer ... there are many, many more options available to consumers than Starbucks and Anheuser-Busch ... they both must compete head-to-head with many other outlets that offer similar quality products ... for that reason alone, they could never force a 'til death do us part subscription model ... yet so many would have us believe that we should avail ourselves to such a model for Photoshop without question.

It would be nice if you could address the OP's question with specifics as to how features only available in Ps CC have enhanced your bottom line ... instead of the general platitudes of cost comparisons to disposable commodities. We are already well aware of the current price tag ... what would be helpful is if you shared, in detail, how you save time using CC ... That information would go much further in shaping our decisions rather than only equating CC with your beverage of choice ...

Butch...here you are again running off about  CC...you are missing out on the conversation at hand. Try clear your head out of CC for a moment, it seems to be eating you alive.

We are discussing what saving processing time means to people. I said if CC can save time in processing images, then it certainly worth the $10 per month...at least for me. others claim if you are not a professional charging out your time, then the time savings is not worth anything monetarily.

Why don't you join into this conversation rather than coming on complaining about CC once again. We've heard your complaints already...we understand CC is not for you...go have fun with your Gimp.
Title: Re: Adobe CC: any compelling features to make one WANT to upgrade to it?
Post by: ButchM on October 10, 2013, 08:48:10 am
Butch...here you are again running off about  CC...you are missing out on the conversation at hand. Try clear your head out of CC for a moment, it seems to be eating you alive.

We are discussing what saving processing time means to people. I said if CC can save time in processing images, then it certainly worth the $10 per month...at least for me. others claim if you are not a professional charging out your time, then the time savings is not worth anything monetarily.

Why don't you join into this conversation rather than coming on complaining about CC once again. We've heard your complaints already...we understand CC is not for you...go have fun with your Gimp.

Still you are speaking in generalities of theory ... long on advice and short on the substance of actual real world examples.

It would be nice if you could provide examples (in detail) of how exactly the new features in Ps CC ARE saving you time and therefore money. That would answer definitively for those of us who speculate, that there is little to gain by signing up.

I am not arguing that your theory is invalid. I am simply asking you to offer specific examples for consideration that you have experienced to support your theory. It shouldn't be difficult to share and certainly would offer much more value to the process than than taking shots at Gimp ... which I don't use currently but I would not be ashamed to consider if it could serve my needs. I quit worrying about basing my personal status on what the "cool kids are doing" back in junior high school.
Title: Re: Adobe CC: any compelling features to make one WANT to upgrade to it?
Post by: Manoli on October 10, 2013, 08:51:20 am
It would be nice if you could address the OP's question with specifics as to how features only available in Ps CC have enhanced your bottom line ... instead of the general platitudes..

Response

We are discussing what saving processing time means to people ... you are missing out on the conversation at hand.

Er, no we're not.
The title of the thread is ' Adobe CC any compelling features ...? '
Anything concrete to say, for once ?
Title: Re: Adobe CC: any compelling features to make one WANT to upgrade to it?
Post by: chez on October 10, 2013, 09:27:18 am
Response

Er, no we're not.
The title of the thread is ' Adobe CC any compelling features ...? '
Anything concrete to say, for once ?

I've been very busy with work, away on business for the last few months, but from my use of CC, I have found the smart sharpening enhancements really reduces the time I spend applying sharpening to my images before I print them. How much time is debatable, but this new sharpening is very smart and I have not seen any of the halos you can quickly generate using previous versions.

I've also looked into the conditional actions which can take on different actions given certain conditions being met. I use custom actions quite extesively and I think being able to have conditions within an action will allow me to build more complex actions, streamlining more of my processing.

The ability to put RAW processing as a filter on a layer is very interesting, especially if you want to tweak processing after you have done some other work on the image. I have not used this yet, but I can see the flexibility it offers being very powerful.

I am sure there are more features I will make use of...not to mention some streamlining of existing processing. Once I get more proficient with these features, I can see saving time in processing images. The smart sharpen has already shown to save me time.

I suggest rather than asking others what features are new in CC, just download a full trial version for yourself. Everyone approaches processing differently and what is important to me might not be to you...so YOU need to do the work and try it out yourself.
Title: Re: Adobe CC: any compelling features to make one WANT to upgrade to it?
Post by: chez on October 10, 2013, 09:30:26 am
Still you are speaking in generalities of theory ... long on advice and short on the substance of actual real world examples.

It would be nice if you could provide examples (in detail) of how exactly the new features in Ps CC ARE saving you time and therefore money. That would answer definitively for those of us who speculate, that there is little to gain by signing up.

I am not arguing that your theory is invalid. I am simply asking you to offer specific examples for consideration that you have experienced to support your theory. It shouldn't be difficult to share and certainly would offer much more value to the process than than taking shots at Gimp ... which I don't use currently but I would not be ashamed to consider if it could serve my needs. I quit worrying about basing my personal status on what the "cool kids are doing" back in junior high school.

Butch, rather than sitting in your nice leather chair and "armchair quarterbacking", why don't you get out of that chair, download the trial version of CC and see for yourself what you are missing. Why do you expect others to waste time trying to convince you one way or another on CC?
Title: Re: Adobe CC: any compelling features to make one WANT to upgrade to it?
Post by: ButchM on October 10, 2013, 09:44:07 am
Butch, rather than sitting in your nice leather chair and "armchair quarterbacking", why don't you get out of that chair, download the trial version of CC and see for yourself what you are missing. Why do you expect others to waste time trying to convince you one way or another on CC?

Well ... perhaps I expected someone so enamored with CC, and who is already using same, wouldn't mind sharing their experience. Folks do that on forums all the time. It is not unusual or without precedent to expect early adopters to share their experiences with those folks who are only considering venturing forth or questioning the need to take a deeper look at an offering. I'm surprised you find the concept so unappealing. When you believe in something, it shouldn't be difficult to offer depth of insight on the matter to support your findings.

Thank you though, for finally offering a substantive appraisal of your use of Ps CC thus far ...
Title: Re: Adobe CC: any compelling features to make one WANT to upgrade to it?
Post by: Philmar on October 10, 2013, 12:24:02 pm
And one of the less obvious benefits of CC will be the fact that the engineers can spend more time on the everyday 'ordinary' features as opposed to the fancy make people upgrade whizz bang features to help market a new version.

I hope you are right. My take on CC is different. I fear that once Adobe no longer needs new revenue in the form of a purchased upgrade that there would be less economic imperative to make upgrades. Subscribers are paying $10 a month to use the program and probably won't unsubscribe over a lack of program improvements. Subscribers have to continue to pay the monthly fee to use the program as is. With this guaranteed income stream i see less reason for the company to invest resources in to upgrades since the benefits would be lessened. In the past program upgrades were an economic imperative in order to sell upgrades, now CC will provide regular income stream.
Title: Re: Adobe CC: any compelling features to make one WANT to upgrade to it?
Post by: digitaldog on October 10, 2013, 01:14:05 pm
Well ... perhaps I expected someone so enamored with CC, and who is already using same, wouldn't mind sharing their experience.
OK, I'll say that yes, there are a number of useful new features in CC (and a few coming soon I can't talk about) that make it a very worthwhile upgrade. For me. I'm not sure what you do in Photoshop. It's had a clone tool since version 1 and if you do a lot of cloning work, you might be fine running a 15 year old version although it's been refined in the UI department over the years. So for example, the new feature which allows us to use links, much like InDesign for working with Smart Objects is a very worthwhile feature for me based on how I build complex layered doc's. There's new functionality in the Pen tool. You may not use either SO's or the Pen tool so guess what, you'll think I'm nuts to spend the money on the upgrade. Which again begs the question why you don't download the demo and see for yourself if there are features that you find useful. What I find useful and what you find useful may be diametrically opposed.
Title: Re: Adobe CC: any compelling features to make one WANT to upgrade to it?
Post by: jrsforums on October 10, 2013, 01:34:17 pm
I hope you are right. My take on CC is different. I fear that once Adobe no longer needs new revenue in the form of a purchased upgrade that there would be less economic imperative to make upgrades. Subscribers are paying $10 a month to use the program and probably won't unsubscribe over a lack of program improvements. Subscribers have to continue to pay the monthly fee to use the program as is. With this guaranteed income stream i see less reason for the company to invest resources in to upgrades since the benefits would be lessened. In the past program upgrades were an economic imperative in order to sell upgrades, now CC will provide regular income stream.


It is quite possible that at some point they might look at the PS/LR combo as a "cash cow". 

Hopefully they are smarter than that.  Every other instance like that has eventually resulted in business failure as some bright person takes advantage of the situation and comes up with a better widget.
Title: Re: Adobe CC: any compelling features to make one WANT to upgrade to it?
Post by: Wayne Fox on October 10, 2013, 02:41:59 pm
I didn't take the time to read the entire thread so please forgive if this repetitive, but one PS CC feature I can no longer live without is using camera raw as a filter.  If you convert the layer to a smart object first it then becomes editable/non-destructive.  Being able to use local adjustments to dodge/burn are much faster and simpler than various layer techniques.

There are new features in ACR that can be useful such as visualize spots and the radial adjustment tool.

I also like the new larger dialog boxes for many of the functions, much more useful.

Regarding the use of Lightroom, it is far more than a DAM, and it's functionality incorporated into a work flow is a tremendous time saver.  Maybe you should give the 30 day trial of a Lightroom a real work out.

$10 a month for a subscription to use such powerful apps as well as have  20 GB of cloud based storage (like dropbox) is great value.
Title: Re: Adobe CC: any compelling features to make one WANT to upgrade to it?
Post by: ErikKaffehr on October 10, 2013, 04:14:51 pm
Hi,

The reason I may considering CC is being up to date. The downside is essentially that I see Photoshop as a legacy application. My lifeline is Lightroom, and having Lightroom integration is worth a lot to me.

You could say I see Photoshop as a necessary evil. Both necessary and evil.

Best regards
Erik


I didn't take the time to read the entire thread so please forgive if this repetitive, but one PS CC feature I can no longer live without is using camera raw as a filter.  If you convert the layer to a smart object first it then becomes editable/non-destructive.  Being able to use local adjustments to dodge/burn are much faster and simpler than various layer techniques.

There are new features in ACR that can be useful such as visualize spots and the radial adjustment tool.

I also like the new larger dialog boxes for many of the functions, much more useful.

Regarding the use of Lightroom, it is far more than a DAM, and it's functionality incorporated into a work flow is a tremendous time saver.  Maybe you should give the 30 day trial of a Lightroom a real work out.

$10 a month for a subscription to use such powerful apps as well as have  20 GB of cloud based storage (like dropbox) is great value.

Title: Re: Adobe CC: any compelling features to make one WANT to upgrade to it?
Post by: Manoli on October 10, 2013, 04:51:24 pm
I have found the smart sharpening enhancements really reduces the time I spend applying sharpening to my images ... this new sharpening is very smart and I have not seen any of the halos you can quickly generate using previous versions.

Thanks Chez - that's informative. Of the 'new and improved' features, the one feature that I'm finding compelling is the Smart Object Liquify. Lr is my 'core' application, Ps is principally for pixel editing.

Quote
rather than asking others what features are new in CC, just download a full trial version for yourself

(a) I'm already running CS6, Lightroom, both with various plug-ins, 3 RAW converters Iridient, C1Pro & Lr, plus evaluating Ps CC (and others) on a separate machine.
(b) Again, the question was what you find compelling, not what's new. If you need to find out what's new, just follow the link below

https://creative.adobe.com/products/photoshop
Title: Re: Adobe CC: any compelling features to make one WANT to upgrade to it?
Post by: Manoli on October 10, 2013, 04:54:40 pm
... having Lightroom integration is worth a lot to me.

+1
Title: Re: Adobe CC: any compelling features to make one WANT to upgrade to it?
Post by: daws on October 10, 2013, 07:41:09 pm
...In other words, are there any compelling features that would make a photographer want to upgrade to CC from CS5/6? 

There's nothing in CC that makes me want to upgrade from CS6. I'm happy with Focus Magic's Camera Shake plugin that comes with its convolution sharpener, both of which which serve me well, along with an array of plugins from Topaz Labs and others.

Title: Re: Adobe CC: any compelling features to make one WANT to upgrade to it?
Post by: LesPalenik on October 11, 2013, 11:07:00 pm
Hi,

There are several alternatives for attempting to salvage those isolated cases. You could try DeblurMyimage (http://www.adptools.com/en/deblurmyimage-description.html).

Cheers,
Bart

Thanks Bart, I ordered that plugin. The cost was only 15Euro (about $20), now I have something to experiment with.
Title: Re: Adobe CC: any compelling features to make one WANT to upgrade to it?
Post by: Bart_van_der_Wolf on October 12, 2013, 05:36:38 am
Thanks Bart, I ordered that plugin. The cost was only 15Euro (about $20), now I have something to experiment with.

You're welcome. The Adobe Camera Shake correction probably works reasonably good as well, but if that's the only compelling reason to switch to a subscription model, then alternatives like this will be much cheaper. I'd rather spend my money on better lenses and task dedicated plug-ins, than having to pay indefinitely to enable access to my work-in-progress files.

Cheers,
Bart
Title: Re: Adobe CC: any compelling features to make one WANT to upgrade to it?
Post by: Simon J.A. Simpson on October 12, 2013, 01:42:32 pm
If you need to find out what's new, just follow the link below

https://creative.adobe.com/products/photoshop

If you've only had CSX ‘Standard’ the added ‘Extended’ features might be of interest ?  3D, analysis anyone ?

Following Michael's essay suggesting that we all loosen–up a bit, and in the spirit of poking a bit of fun, I am puzzled about the following features:

•   Real-time image asset generation and Adobe Edge Reflow CC connectivity powered by Adobe Generator – what on earth is this ? (rhetorical question); sounds like you should connect it to your fridge or something

•  Mercury Graphics Engine – messy; will need a bowl under the desk
Title: Re: Adobe CC: any compelling features to make one WANT to upgrade to it?
Post by: digitaldog on October 12, 2013, 02:30:11 pm
•   Real-time image asset generation and Adobe Edge Reflow CC connectivity powered by Adobe Generator – what on earth is this ? (rhetorical question)
http://blogs.adobe.com/photoshopdotcom/2013/09/introducing-adobe-generator-for-photoshop-cc.html
Not every new feature is aimed at the audience here. For many, this is a feature that will save huge amounts of time and effort (making the subscription a simple choice).
Title: Re: Adobe CC: any compelling features to make one WANT to upgrade to it?
Post by: Simon J.A. Simpson on October 14, 2013, 10:31:46 am
http://blogs.adobe.com/photoshopdotcom/2013/09/introducing-adobe-generator-for-photoshop-cc.html
Not every new feature is aimed at the audience here. For many, this is a feature that will save huge amounts of time and effort (making the subscription a simple choice).

What, no good for my fridge ?!
Title: Re: Adobe CC: any compelling features to make one WANT to upgrade to it?
Post by: John Rodriguez on October 14, 2013, 03:09:37 pm
Just upgraded.  Stuff I'm excited to test:

- Adobe Camera Raw as a filter
- Radial gradient filter
- Conditional action operators
- Preserve Details resize algorithm.  Interested to see if I notice an improvement at modest enlargement sizes (ie under 100%)
- Improved Smart Sharpen

Title: Re: Adobe CC: any compelling features to make one WANT to upgrade to it?
Post by: Jack Hogan on June 20, 2014, 03:07:25 pm
are there any compelling features that would make a photographer want to upgrade to CC from CS5/6?

Ok, now that CNX2 is officially going to be discontinued I have a little more incentive to look at the CC+LR package.  But I was thinking that as far as CC (2014) only is concerned I would probably not feel the need to upgrade from CS6 unless there were some disruptive (as opposed to incremental) improvements to one or more of the following functions dear to my heart:

1) demosaicing
2) tone distributing functions (e.g. highlights, shadows, tonal contrast)
3) sharpening
4) selection tools
5) content aware tools
6) downsizing/upsizing algorithms
7) all-in-one, raw-editable adjustments-rendered image, efficient file system.

I am sure that I am forgetting others (what other ones would you add?) but alas, I don't see any of those today.  And since CNX2 is not completely dead yet I guess I will wait another year before re-evaluating.

Jack
Title: Re: Adobe CC: any compelling features to make one WANT to upgrade to it?
Post by: jjj on June 21, 2014, 07:58:22 am
Ok, now that CNX2 is officially going to be discontinued
That's not a good way to encourage people to buy your products, simply dropping support for software that people have invested money and more importantly a lot of their time into. Good article here (http://www.dslrbodies.com/newsviews/february-2014-nikon-news/capture-nx-d-announced.html) on this daft move by Nikon.
Title: Re: Adobe CC: any compelling features to make one WANT to upgrade to it?
Post by: Simon Garrett on June 21, 2014, 08:23:56 am
That's not a good way to encourage people to buy your products, simply dropping support for software that people have invested money and more importantly a lot of their time into. Good article here (http://www.dslrbodies.com/newsviews/february-2014-nikon-news/capture-nx-d-announced.html) on this daft move by Nikon.

Nikon, like so many companies (Apple being the obvious exception), are good at hardware but very poor at software. Worse: Nikon are not only bad at software, they're stupid as well.  Their pig-headed approach of neither producing properly-supported raw software nor opening up the format so someone else can do it damages both their users and themselves.  

I've seen a number of companies that lock up their IPR (including interface definitions) for fear that opening it up would be "giving away the family silver".  But if you don't use it yourself, you're getting no value from it.  Give it away, and someone else might benefit - and if it's not your competitors, then so what?  It might benefit your users, which expands your own markets.  

Technology IPR is a perishable commodity with a very short shelf life.  Use it, sell it or even give it away, unless you're sure that givng it away helps your competitors.    Nikon don't want to use it, they almost certainly can't sell it without losing control, but they could give it away while keeping control of the format.  

My money is that Nikon keeps to the lock-it-away policy.  "Just in case."  Idiots!
Title: Re: Adobe CC: any compelling features to make one WANT to upgrade to it?
Post by: rovanpera on June 25, 2014, 05:42:50 am
They have updated highlights/midtone/shadows settings in color range with more controls, so you can easily do exact tonal selections.



Title: Re: Adobe CC: any compelling features to make one WANT to upgrade to it?
Post by: jjj on June 27, 2014, 04:05:57 pm
Nikon, like so many companies (Apple being the obvious exception), are good at hardware but very poor at software. Worse: Nikon are not only bad at software, they're stupid as well.  Their pig-headed approach of neither producing properly-supported raw software nor opening up the format so someone else can do it damages both their users and themselves.  
Hmm, yet Apple have done exactly the same as they have given up on Aperture.
And to repeat what I said about C-NX "That's not a good way to encourage people to buy your products, simply dropping support for software that people have invested money and more importantly a lot of their time into.'
Plus Apple also produce some truly awful software, Finder being the worst example. If I wasn't able to bypass Finder with something useful like PathFinder, I'd flatten OSX and use Windows [and have the benefit of an even better file manager Directory Opus].
Basically I replace nearly all Apple software with something grown up and more functional.
Title: Re: Adobe CC: any compelling features to make one WANT to upgrade to it?
Post by: LesPalenik on July 01, 2014, 07:15:52 am
Quote from: BartvanderWolf on October 09, 2013, 03:35:29 AM

Hi,

There are several alternatives for attempting to salvage those isolated cases. You could try DeblurMyimage.

Cheers,
Bart

Thanks Bart, I ordered that plugin. The cost was only 15Euro (about $20), now I have something to experiment with.

I tried DeblurImages, Topaz InFocus, and I also I had an image processed by Photoshop Camera Shake, none of them did anything useful.
Possibly, if there were a very pronounced motion blur in one direction, they would have helped, but in most cases, they don't do much or they apply a very aggressive overall sharpening.  
For forensic analysis, these plugins could make some text or details slightly more readable, but in all other situations they are practically useless.


Title: Re: Adobe CC: any compelling features to make one WANT to upgrade to it?
Post by: Robert Ardill on July 29, 2014, 03:13:40 pm
I guess this isn't too important for photographers, but it you ever want to paint using Photoshop then there is a massive upgrade from CS4 to CS5 (the bristle brushes) and an almost as big upgrade from CS5 to CS6 (the airbrush and erodible tip brush/pencil).  So far no upgrade from CS6 to CC.  For anyone interested in painting digitally using Photoshop, upgrading to CS6 while this is still available would be a really good move!

Robert
Title: Re: Adobe CC: any compelling features to make one WANT to upgrade to it?
Post by: john beardsworth on July 30, 2014, 03:47:39 am
I guess this isn't too important for photographers, but it you ever want to paint using Photoshop then there is a massive upgrade from CS4 to CS5 (the bristle brushes) and an almost as big upgrade from CS5 to CS6 (the airbrush and erodible tip brush/pencil).  So far no upgrade from CS6 to CC.  For anyone interested in painting digitally using Photoshop, upgrading to CS6 while this is still available would be a really good move!

I agree, Robert, the wet media brushes amazed this jaded Photoshop user.
Title: Re: Adobe CC: any compelling features to make one WANT to upgrade to it?
Post by: jerryrock on July 31, 2014, 09:17:57 pm
Photoshop CC (2014) contains a few experimental features. Two of these are for Windows users only, Use Touch Gestures and Scale UI 200% for high density displays. The later is the answer to many complaints about tiny icons and text on 4K displays. The third is available to both Mac and Windows, Enable Multitone 3D Printing.

Select Focus Area, new in CC (2014), uses an algorithm that automatically finds the in focus area of your image and automatically makes an adjustable mask.
Title: Re: Adobe CC: any compelling features to make one WANT to upgrade to it?
Post by: Ann JS on August 01, 2014, 04:18:03 pm
For me it is the little things in each new Upgrade to Photoshop that improve my working-speed, efficiency and comfort which are just as important as newly introduced tools and features.

I have always upgraded immediately and see no point in delaying to do so – particularly now that the subscription price is so reasonable.

ACR and Ps CC 2014 are now faster and more stable than any previous version that I have ever experienced.
Title: Re: Adobe CC: any compelling features to make one WANT to upgrade to it?
Post by: jjj on August 01, 2014, 07:47:14 pm
For me it is the little things in each new Upgrade to Photoshop that improve my working-speed, efficiency and comfort which are just as important as newly introduced tools and features.

I have always upgraded immediately and see no point in delaying to do so – particularly now that the subscription price is so reasonable.

ACR and Ps CC 2014 are now faster and more stable than any previous version that I have ever experienced.
That's always been my view. But too many people can't see past the 'wow' features and never think to look at the refinement aspects, which usually have the most overall impact on PS users ease of use.