Luminous Landscape Forum

The Art of Photography => The Coffee Corner => Topic started by: Slobodan Blagojevic on September 11, 2013, 09:17:02 PM

Title: Photography is unlawful and a sin
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on September 11, 2013, 09:17:02 PM
Rob, you must be onto something in your tirade against street photography ;D

You are fully vindicated here, and then some:

Now Fatwa against photography! (http://bdnews24.com/bangladesh/2013/09/11/now-fatwa-against-photography)
Title: Re: Photography is unlawful and a sin
Post by: Rob C on September 12, 2013, 11:15:25 AM
Rob, you must be onto something in your tirade against street photography ;D

You are fully vindicated here, and then some:

Now Fatwa against photography! (http://bdnews24.com/bangladesh/2013/09/11/now-fatwa-against-photography)


I wonder if that puts some Moslem photo-selfies into sinful selfie territory, then?

Parts of the world are going nuts - have always been nuts. It illustrates the futility of meddling with the mores of countries so different to our own. Religion and politics are best left at the Departure Lounge. Let's just buy their oil and sell them our fighter jets and Rollers.

Rob C
Title: Re: Photography is unlawful and a sin
Post by: Eric Myrvaagnes on September 12, 2013, 01:32:46 PM
I could understand and even support a fatwa against selfies, but not against other kinds of photographs.
Title: Re: Photography is unlawful and a sin
Post by: RSL on September 12, 2013, 01:37:38 PM
Anybody still wonder why these people are so backward?
Title: Re: Photography is unlawful and a sin
Post by: WalterEG on September 12, 2013, 01:46:52 PM
Depicting people in illustrations contravenes the laws of all the People Of The Book.  Nothing new in this.

W
Title: Re: Photography is unlawful and a sin
Post by: Chairman Bill on September 12, 2013, 02:06:48 PM
Anybody still wonder why these people are so backward?

Firm adherence to supernaturalist mumbo-jumbo?
Title: Re: Photography is unlawful and a sin
Post by: Isaac on September 12, 2013, 02:08:16 PM
Quote
Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.

Exodus 20:4 KJV

Hence the role of calligraphy in Islamic art.
Title: Re: Photography is unlawful and a sin
Post by: Rand47 on September 12, 2013, 05:14:24 PM
Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.

Exodus 20:4 KJV

Numbers 21:9
And Moses made a bronze serpent and set it on the standard ....

Hummmm... seems like old Mose didn't read that part of what he wrote...  ;D   or maybe what it meant was not to make idols to worship in lieu of YHWH.

Rand
Title: Re: Photography is unlawful and a sin
Post by: Isaac on September 12, 2013, 07:45:39 PM
Or maybe what it meant was exactly what it said, unless the Lord thy God explicitly commands you otherwise ;-)

Quote
And the Lord said unto Moses, Make thee a fiery serpent, and set it upon a pole...

Numbers 21:8 KJV


You definitely win this months selective quotation competition.
Title: Re: Photography is unlawful and a sin
Post by: Eric Myrvaagnes on September 13, 2013, 12:23:45 AM
You definitely win this months selective quotation competition.
My brother's favorite bible quote is from Psalm 137: "Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones." KJV

Title: Re: Photography is unlawful and a sin
Post by: Rob C on September 13, 2013, 05:07:20 AM
My brother's favorite bible quote is from Psalm 137: "Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones." KJV




All in all, photography seems the least of many evils!

Actually, I think that the ban doesn't really apply to photography: it just applies to bad pictures. Shit! That's where we came in...

Rob C
Title: Re: Photography is unlawful and a sin
Post by: Robert Roaldi on September 13, 2013, 01:21:15 PM
Anybody still wonder why these people are so backward?

As it stands, that's offensive. You might want to rephrase.
Title: Re: Photography is unlawful and a sin
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on September 13, 2013, 01:29:46 PM
As it stands, that's offensive. You might want to rephrase.

Ooops! Somebody must have called 199, the PC Police ;)
Title: Re: Photography is unlawful and a sin
Post by: NancyP on September 13, 2013, 04:06:18 PM
Well, Mr Antony Wiener might have been better off if he had obeyed that fatwa.....his selfies earned the OTHER "S" word, stupid.
Title: Re: Photography is unlawful and a sin
Post by: David Eckels on September 13, 2013, 04:33:48 PM
Now Fatwa against photography! (http://bdnews24.com/bangladesh/2013/09/11/now-fatwa-against-photography)
But then how would you advertise heinous crimes via Al Jazeera?
Title: Re: Photography is unlawful and a sin
Post by: RSL on September 13, 2013, 05:49:54 PM
As it stands, that's offensive. You might want to rephrase.

What's offensive about it, Robert? These folks are trying hard to turn back the clock to the seventh century. I'll admit that sometimes I get  a bit nostalgic about some things I enjoyed in the fifties, but longing for the seventh century is a bit much.
Title: Re: Photography is unlawful and a sin
Post by: Rocco Penny on September 13, 2013, 06:51:30 PM
nothing gets a girl going like when you talk about the fatwa on your head...
hey I thought this was a photography website?
The people that come around this place continue to fill me with awe and wonder.
Seriously,
we all need to take a good look at just what is what,
because if I can't make fun of god in any meaningful way - or see that the sun is coming up tomorrow just because there are men,
men that just don't change,
you know,
Like RSL or RobC or even probably and I hope, to a much lesser degree, me.
So in the hopes that men will stay in with men they throw in with,
I suggest you take your censorship and shove it up gods,
well

I am outta here...my one good thing awaits...
Title: Re: Photography is unlawful and a sin
Post by: David Sutton on September 13, 2013, 07:15:52 PM
What's offensive about it, Robert? These folks are trying hard to turn back the clock to the seventh century. I'll admit that sometimes I get  a bit nostalgic about some things I enjoyed in the fifties, but longing for the seventh century is a bit much.
Hello Russ.
I'll have a go at an answer. No doubt others could do better though.
It's that the question "Anybody still wonder why these people are so backward?" comes across as breathtakingly arrogant. I'm not suggesting that you or any member of this forum think you are more important than other people, it's just how the question appears.
If I call someone backward it implies I am in some way superior, and people are entitled to ask in what manner this manifests. I'll use the USA as an example, but Europe or any other place would do.
Are folks in the USA morally superior? What do their divorce rates, crime statistics and imprisonment rates, care of the poor and sick show?
Are the better stewards of their environment?
Are they better stewards of their financial system and use it for the betterment of all?
In their day to day actions do they, as a nation, do the things that please God?
To say that those folks "over there" are worse is not an excuse for our own failings.
I think it a question of respect. So one Muslim cleric somewhere issues an opinion about photography. So what. If he advocates violence that's another matter. Hezekiah had the bronze sepent mentioned above destroyed because it became an object of superstitious veneration. If for religious reasons, in their corner of the world, some folks are concerned about such use and misuse of images, I have no problem with that. I won't knowingly photograph them.
But I may make them the subject of a little gentle humour.
Title: Re: Photography is unlawful and a sin
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on September 13, 2013, 07:30:19 PM
The opposite of superior is inferior, not backward.

The opposite of backward is advanced.

So your pontificating is missing the target.
Title: Re: Photography is unlawful and a sin
Post by: RSL on September 13, 2013, 07:45:28 PM
Hello Russ.
I'll have a go at an answer. No doubt others could do better though.
It's that the question "Anybody still wonder why these people are so backward?" comes across as breathtakingly arrogant. I'm not suggesting that you or any member of this forum think you are more important than other people, it's just how the question appears.
If I call someone backward it implies I am in some way superior, and people are entitled to ask in what manner this manifests. I'll use the USA as an example, but Europe or any other place would do.
Are folks in the USA morally superior? What do their divorce rates, crime statistics and imprisonment rates, care of the poor and sick show?
Are the better stewards of their environment?
Are they better stewards of their financial system and use it for the betterment of all?
In their day to day actions do they, as a nation, do the things that please God?
To say that those folks "over there" are worse is not an excuse for our own failings.
I think it a question of respect. So one Muslim cleric somewhere issues an opinion about photography. So what. If he advocates violence that's another matter. Hezekiah had the bronze sepent mentioned above destroyed because it became an object of superstitious veneration. If for religious reasons, in their corner of the world, some folks are concerned about such use and misuse of images, I have no problem with that. I won't knowingly photograph them.
But I may make them the subject of a little gentle humour.

Oh, my! Frankly that's More PC than I can deal with all at one time. I have no problem with their desire to avoid images, David, but I have a big problem with their intention to force me to avoid images. They can go back to the seventh century as far as I'm concerned, but if they do I'd expect them not to try to force me go back to the seventh century along with them. They've made it clear that their objective is a seventh century Caliphate that encompasses all of us. Uh uh. Sorry, going along with that idea is more PC than I can stomach.
Title: Re: Photography is unlawful and a sin
Post by: David Sutton on September 13, 2013, 09:48:16 PM
Strange how what was old is new again.
Long ago I was taught by my betters to show respect. It involves courtesy and kind regard, and took a long time to learn.
So this is now "PC"? How we have labels for everything. Well, if you like.
Title: Re: Photography is unlawful and a sin
Post by: David Sutton on September 13, 2013, 11:23:31 PM
The opposite of superior is inferior, not backward.

The opposite of backward is advanced.

So your pontificating is missing the target.


I find it curious that as I get older am not afraid to speak my mind. I don't care so much what people think about that, so am going to reply direct.
I am happy to go with the word "advanced".
That word will be defined by each culture according to what they value, and no doubt to show themselves in the best light.
I like having good food on the table, I like being warm in winter, I like it when people are moved by my photos or music. But the only thing I really value now is what lies in the heart.
According to what I value, are you more advanced?
I can't see it.
Title: Re: Photography is unlawful and a sin
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on September 14, 2013, 12:46:10 AM
Being backward/advanced is a temporal statement of fact... like in 7th vs. 21st century. It is not a moral judgment. A society could be advanced and decadent or backward and moral, or any other combination. By the way, we are talking about societies, and you keep referring to individuals. Once again, you are missing the target.
Title: Re: Photography is unlawful and a sin
Post by: David Sutton on September 14, 2013, 01:28:02 AM
Being backward/advanced is a temporal statement of fact... like in 7th vs. 21st century.
QED

By the way, we are talking about societies, and you keep referring to individuals. Once again, you are missing the target.
A problem with English, Slobodan. I was using "you" in the plural. In fact, "we" would be more accurate I suspect. No moral judgements intended or implied.
Title: Re: Photography is unlawful and a sin
Post by: kaelaria on September 14, 2013, 01:38:31 AM
But, but...MY invisible man in the sky says something different than YOUR invisible man in the sky...I KILL YOU!

Title: Re: Photography is unlawful and a sin
Post by: David Sutton on September 14, 2013, 02:11:25 AM
But, but...MY invisible man in the sky says something different than YOUR invisible man in the sky...I KILL YOU!


Indeed. There is a lot of that going on in Syria, and you'll find a thread on what should be done about that here in Coffee Corner.
This is a discussion about a cleric in India issuing a legal opinion about photography. An unpopular one as well, judging by local opinion there.
Title: Re: Photography is unlawful and a sin
Post by: Rob C on September 14, 2013, 04:52:26 AM
Indeed. There is a lot of that going on in Syria, and you'll find a thread on what should be done about that here in Coffee Corner.
This is a discussion about a cleric in India issuing a legal opinion about photography. An unpopular one as well, judging by local opinion there.


No wonder! Bollywood is a lifeline to millions: their jollies, just as Hollywood and Tin Pan Alley are/were to the rest of us. I remember being taken to the movies when we lived on the outskirts of London during WW2... Betty Grable still flickers in my mind. Folks braved being buried alive in rubble to get some relief.

Many, many years later, long after London had become a forgotten part of my juvenile mind, I happened to have reason to go back for a while; as fortune would have it, I returned to the very same local cinema (still not rubble!) and saw Dr No. On the whole, I'd have been happier with old Betty.

I don't think that any 'system' will ever crush the human spirit and its need for expression and/pleasure of some sort.

What's left when you take it away? You might just as well risk your life to get some of it back.

Rob C
Title: Photography is unlawful and a sin ... say some muslims, not all
Post by: BJL on September 16, 2013, 02:35:50 PM
Depicting people in illustrations contravenes the laws of all the People Of The Book.  Nothing new in this.
Not all muslim groups hold that, even when it comes to images of humans: note that shiites often carry photographs of religious leaders at public religious events, and some parts of the islamic world have produced some wonderful representational art. For example, visit Google Images and search for "islamic miniatures", or better yet see an exhibition of some of that amazing, finely detailed artwork.