Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Landscape Photography Locations => Topic started by: bellimages on September 09, 2013, 09:58:02 am
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I realize that this is a generalized question, but does anyone know of a good (or really good) website that lists campgrounds throughout the southwest? I plan on spending a few weeks in northern Arizona, southern Utah and northwestern New Mexico. National Parks are a no-brainer, it's the more remote areas that are cause for concern, especially since I will be out of cell phone range most of the time. Therefore I need to know where I will be spending nights BEFORE I depart.
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Northern Arizona is pretty wide open to dispersed camping, i.e. park and camp wherever you want. Southern Utah is a little bit more restrictive but there's still no shortage of dispersed camping. I don't know of any resources that list designated campgrounds, though.
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With respect it appears that National Parks are really a no brainer now. What a pity, such a wonderful resource.
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AAA used to produce CampBooks and Campground Maps for California, which listed both public and private campgrounds. If they made them for AZ and UT, see if you can get ahold of them.
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What does a cell phone have to do with camping? Chuck the phone. Life was primitive prior to 92. There is amazing camping all over, but I'm sure people aren't going to divulge there favorites. The fun is to go and make your own discoveries. Go to Escalante and just get lost out there. You won't regret it. Most camping is free out there on public land. Just don't leave you garbage or tolet paper. Bring five gallons of your own water.
Here is where we camped. Notice we were on a road and not just going where ever.
http://photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=944423
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Chaco Canyon is a pretty fantastic place to camp, but it's federally managed, so likely to be closed now. No cell service needed there.
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Smart phones allow me to do searches (such as campgrounds, etc.).
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Just curious what you call camping? I do a lot of camping in the SW (More south than I think you're looking at). National parks are going to be a big issue this fall.
Found this on some national park openings. http://www.nps.gov/shutdown/index.html
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I guess I need to define "camping." Camping is not my purpose on this trip... the purpose is photography. While I do like to camp and backpack, I do it as a recreational thing. But when I'm shooting, I sleep in the back of my SUV to save on costs, and to be in the landscape where I am shooting.
Going back to my original post, I asked for suggestions of where I might spend some of my nights. I was hoping that someone knew of a website that lists remote places where I can (legally) camp. For example, I have learned that in the Alabama Hills, outside if Lone Pine, CA, I can pull in anywhere, OR, I can pay to use one of two campgrounds.
I'll list a few places where I may shoot. If you've been to any of these locations and know of places to "camp," let me know.
1. Areas around Page, AZ
2. Bisti Wilderness
3. Ship rock
4. Monument Valley
5. Factory Butte (near Hanksville, UT)
6. Taos, NM
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In New Mexico, there are more interesting places to photograph. Try City of Rocks State Park. You could spend a week making photos at City of Rocks, and it only covers maybe 10 acres. Good place to camp too, unless wind bothers you. Galisteo is a cool semi-ruinous town full of weirdness.
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Look on the national forest and BLM sites. I have an old AWD Astro van that I "camp" out of. It's my hotel room I can set up on location. I spend more than a few nites a year on BLM land. Nice thing about the van is it pretty stealthy and works well in walmart parking lots too. I'm never noticed there like an RV would be. I like cheap and often use google earth to scout back roads on blm land for suitable locations to camp and hpotograph. Some of the BLM staff are really helpful if you just talk to them. The rangers know the areas like their own back yard and can often suggest places to camp. Some places like expeditionportal.com have a large community of people that like to get off the beaten path and may have more ideas than the photography community.
Sorry I don't have specific info for the area you're interested in, I generally hang a little further SE centered around West Texas.
I love camping/photography from my van. I tried to get a FB group started of people with similar interests for sharing info but it has gone nowhere. )-:}
Free camping on BLM land 5 minutes from Carlsbad Caverns NP.. It seldom costs me more than $10 for a three day weekend of camping out of my van (excluding fuel cost). Definately a lot of bang for the buck. (-:}
(http://www.pbase.com/arlon/image/147424086/medium.jpg)
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What works best for me is Google Maps. Along the route where I plan to stay or visit I do a "search nearby" for "camping". I also use the BLM website as a great deal of this area is BLM managed land and they have many campsites that are usually a lot less crowded than the RV parks and National Park campgrounds in the area. Some of the camping areas require that you be self-contained and do not allow for tent camping as there are no toilets of any kind.
The books by Laurent Martres are a good resource for planning photography trips in the southwest.
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Most of the public lands in this area are "managed" by the BLM and they have area specific websites with maps. For general travel I also use the USFS maps for each forest in a state. They can be ordered online and mailed to you before you leave. I use both these resources to plan where to camp when in the area. The great thing about the BLM campgrounds is that they are less well known than the national park campgrounds and so it is easier to find a campsite without making reservations in advance.
There are primitive campgrounds and for many of these you need to be fully self-contained so a truck camper or motorhome is OK but not car or tent camping. The flip side is that with no hookups these are less popular for the RV crowd and I do mean crowd.
From a photography and trip planning perspective I like the 3 outstanding books on the area by Laurent Martres. I have used them to decide on routes and places to go to and then for a given area I will use Google Maps and do a search nearby for "camping". Some places like Ship Rock have no camping in the area but it is legal to simply park and sleep in your car or RV in this area.
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Good boondocking sites are a learned skill. Experience tells you where you'll find good spots. Google Earth is the ultimate map, but you'll need Internet access. "Mapster" has excellent topographic and road data and works offline. Free, too.
BLM lands are an excellent resource. I'm no lawyer, but it seems that camping is largely unrestricted. Maps showing the extent and boundaries of these lands are invaluable.
I use infrastructure sites frequently. Cell towers, microwave towers, power transmission lines all have access roads and even if you wind up camping just outside the security gates, you're on public land and you won't get chased off. All provide the three basic requirements: Quiet, Dark and Level.
Invisible is good. Hide. If they can't see you, they can't bother you.
1. Areas around Page, AZ
Walmart lot in town. Marina parking lots.
2. Bisti Wilderness
No idea
3. Ship rock
Native reservations all around. Boondocking difficult
4. Monument Valley
Native reservations all around. Boondocking difficult
5. Factory Butte (near Hanksville, UT)
many small roads into the desert near Hanksville. Otherwise, Capital Reef has a superb campground. Burr Trail and Waterpocket fold has campgrounds.
6. Taos, NM
eastward towards the mountains gets you off the tourist trail
Like arlon, I frequently hide in plain sight. Commercial parking lots, church parking lots (except Saturday night!) casinos, shopping malls, hospitals, anywhere vehicles are likely to be parked overnight.
(http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2844/10322013903_5050228df1_o.jpg)
Happy Hour, somewhere in Central Nevada.
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You might want to check out Expedition Portal. It is a forum focused on exactly this type of question and there is a wealth of knowledge about the areas you are planning on visiting.
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Hello,
Page: There is a commercial campground in Page with camping spots and showers. If you want remote, say, Allstrom Point, drive to Big Water and out into the boonies. Google the map for it. South of Page on the Utah side has some sandy back roads, not recommended.
Bisti: There is a lonely fenced parking area with no facilities, no water, no campsites. You could park and sleep in your vehicle, I've seen people do this.
Ship Rock: Nowhere to officially camp but road by the rock goes for miles. Used to be a favorite drinking area for locals, lots of broken glass near entry road to the east of the hogback.
Monument Valley: Gouldings, and primitive camping right at the entrance. They used to have camp sites with water and facilities at the entrance as well.
good luck,
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The area around Ship Rock is completely unrestricted for camping if you are self-contained. This is true on many wildlife refuge areas as well though you have to be with a specified distance of the "road".
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The area around Ship Rock is completely unrestricted for camping if you are self-contained. This is true on many wildlife refuge areas as well though you have to be with a specified distance of the "road".
But as far as I know you need a Navajo permit for camping, don´t you?
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Arizona's a bit far from the south west, isn't it? If you want campsites around Somerset, Devon & Cornwall, I can give you some suggestions ;)
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For any area where I plan to be I use Google Maps and once I pinpoint a location will use the search nearby to locate campgrounds. It works well for this function and with the satellite view I can see if there is any vegetation or potential shade or water in an area.
Most of the places out in the desert are on BLM land and it is not difficult to find what the restrictions are for camping. I use a slide in camper on a pickup truck so I can stay anywhere. Not unusual in this area to find that all the camping is classified as primitive and so that means only self-contained RV's are allowed and no tent or other camping.
If I was going to spend time in the area I would consider renting a Class B motorhome in Arizona and using it for my travels. Lots of advantages to having a small fridge, a fresh water tank, toilet, and place to sit indoors and work on camera gear or use your laptop to review your images.
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This is how it's done people. :) (Outside Capitol Reef....)
(http://www.luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=81996.0;attach=103146;image)
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pink flamingos are a nice touch-homey!!
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To me, the perfect remote photography camping unit would be the four-door 4X4 of your choice with a roof-top tent, a dual battery system and a 12 volt refrigerator. That way you camp at the location where you're planning to shoot your sunrise shots. When you're finished, you stow your roof-top tent and drive to your next location. No trailer to worry about. You'll have a comfortable bed and a del refrigerator without the hassle of a trailer and with the dual battery system, you run the fridge without fear of being stranded. No air conditioning though.
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To me, the perfect remote photography camping unit would be the four-door 4X4 of your choice with a roof-top tent, a dual battery system and a 12 volt refrigerator. That way you camp at the location where you're planning to shoot your sunrise shots. When you're finished, you stow your roof-top tent and drive to your next location. No trailer to worry about. You'll have a comfortable bed and a del refrigerator without the hassle of a trailer and with the dual battery system, you run the fridge without fear of being stranded. No air conditioning though.
Two words: Bear Country.
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I love the book Photographing The Southwest volume 2 , A
guide to the natural landmarks of Arizona however their are several guides for different areas & are worth a look prior to the trip. The book gives some insight into camping . HTH.
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Two words: Bear Country.
I've camped a lot in bear country, including Alaska where the bears are serious, in ground tents and never had a problem. I'm more inclined to be concerned about humans than bears, but in either case, I've never had a problem.
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In the midwest, primitive camping means "no water, no electricity, no sewage disposal" car (tent) camping, or a backpack-to-get-there site.
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I've camped a lot in bear country, including Alaska where the bears are serious, in ground tents and never had a problem. I'm more inclined to be concerned about humans than bears, but in either case, I've never had a problem.
This was 30 mins from my house, and Utah isn't really considered bear country. When a child is killed, it leaves a lasting impression.
http://www.ksl.com/?sid=1363845
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That is certainly a tragedy and I'm sure it changes your behavior in bear country. Did you know the victim's family?
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Another one today.
http://www.ksl.com/?sid=30935893&nid=148&title=area-closed-to-camping-after-bear-ransacks-2-trailers&s_cid=queue-9
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An unmet friend of mine, Ara, has a website- http://theoasisofmysoul.com/ where he documents his travels over the last few years, more than a few actually. He bases himself out of Terlingua Ranch, TX but hits the road with Spirit once Spring arrives. Once the desert "cools down" he returns to "the oasis" for winter. At the moment the site is somewhat dominated by the release of his book but if you dig in he talks about "cheap" camping throughout the west. I'm really enjoying his book... but that's not why I linked to his site. The site has a lot of little hidden gems on it that, with a little detective work (Google Earth, etc), you should be able to find remote sites.
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Here is a link to a site you might like; http://expeditionportal.com/ The Oasis of my Soul author posts updates in the forum there. There's lots of good information and lots of opinions, just like any good forum.
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Sorry that I didn't respond to all your helpful comments. I thought that I had my setting adjusted to notify my email of new topics. I guess not. Regardless, it just proves how useful this forum is. You are ALL so helpful.
Seeing your travels makes me yearn to get out and explore. From what I saw, it looks like many of you are single guys. While my wife gives me the freedom to get out and see the world (and photograph). I am not able to go for more than a few weeks at a time. I'd love to spend a winter in the southwest .... coming to civilization only to restock. With that said, I guess that I worry too much about all the "what ifs."
As one of you said, it's not the bears that you worry about, as much as the psycho people out there. I'd be concerned spending the night in an open parking area, say at Bisti. I'd feel like a sitting target for vandals and the like.
I'm fortunate for the nights that I've spent off the beaten path. They are DEFINITELY my favorite. On the other end of the spectrum, I drove into the campground at Zion one night. The ranger at the gate told me that I was getting the last spot. I cringed. And yes, it was the worst night of my two week trek!
One more question. Why does the BLM require that people have a self contained unit? That's way more than I want to travel with. I try to pack light, and travel cheap. I use conventional backpacking "toilet etiquette" if you will (burying waste). Isn't that allowed?
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I'm glad you enjoyed being off the beaten path. Here are some good Leave No Trace principles: https://lnt.org/learn/7-principles
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Thanks for this link. I'm proud to say that I abide by these principles. In fact, I take it one step further -- I clean up after people who have not. It's depressing that the general human population doesn't abide by this in their daily lives. If they did, our roadways would be free of litter. I just can't figure out why people toss litter, as if the Earth was their garbage can.
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...I clean up after people who have not...
Thank you!
In general, you can camp anywhere on USFS, BLM, and National Monument land. You cannot camp on Indian reservations unless you have special permission, as it's their land, not ours.
The only time I park my truck/camper at a campground is when there is not convenient public land nearby that is free and private. You should not camp within 200' of streams/lakes or make a fire ring where one is not already established. BLM prohibits building fires on the ground unless you have a fire pan. I assume the BLM requirement for self-contained vehicles is an effort to enforce the leave no trace ethic. Unfortunately the cattle industry has already made a joke out of that.
Also, I hope it goes without saying that despite the fact that 4x4 vehicles can drive right through sand and over sagebrush quite happily, you should never take them "off road" on public land, as the auto manufacturers love to show in their ads. Stay on two-track roads. Sorry this almost turned into a rant.
As for bears... don't attract them! Never dump grey water or bury food or human waste anywhere near your campsite. When I'm in bear country and really concerned, I don't cook - it makes too many smells. You can boil water and then dump in a freeze-dried meal, but nothing more. I'm always careful anywhere there are bears, but I'm extra vigilant farther north. For some reason when you cross the Canadian border the bear situation just changes. Black bears there are just as dangerous as grizzlies - not like Great Smoky Mountains or Yosemite NPs. Don't attract them. I've spent over 50 years camping and hiking in bear country and never had a problem, though I've been very concerned a few times. If you are in serious bear country, you should carry bear spray, know how to use it, and understand how to identify bear behavior... http://www.amazon.com/Encounter-Survival-Guide-James-Shelton/dp/0969809905#
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Buy a Trasharoo. http://trasharoo.com/TRASHAROO%20/About.html
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The problem you will encounter is that you are looking for areas in the tribal nations. BLM lands are simple with camping a minimum distance from highways but the Indian nation lands are off limits unless you get an ok from a chapter house. I camp about a half mile to the west of factory butte on BLM land.
Robert
Www.robert-park.com
Www.nevadaartprinters.com
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Here are some map sources that may be useful -
http://www.fs.fed.us/r3/gis/USFS_Southwestern_Region_MVUM_Repository.html#Carson
http://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/stelprdb5407274.pdf
http://plicmapcenter.org/?st=UT
http://publiclands.org/Get-Books-and-Maps.php?plicstate=NM&site_id=7795
Unfortunately, the BLM doesn't seem to offer any downloadable maps. The publiclands.org site provides a map that has campgrounds and points of interest and if you click on the little checkbox in the lower right corner labeled "Land Status" it will provide information on the map regarding land ownership - BLM, Tribal, National Forest Service, etc.
If you can close in on a specific area you're interested in, you can head over to the USGS web site and download PDF's of all the USGS quad sheets for those areas. The new USGS quad sheets are great because they now have an aerial imagery layer you can turn on or off as you wish - and they are FREE!
Go here for the USGS quads (you can enter the name of a state to zoom into the coverage for that state, then zoom further for specific areas you're interested in). These quad sheets are fairly large with the aerial imagery, but I think worth it.
http://store.usgs.gov/b2c_usgs/usgs/maplocator/%28ctype=areaDetails&xcm=r3standardpitrex_prd&carea=%24ROOT&layout=6_1_61_48&uiarea=2%29/.do