Luminous Landscape Forum
Site & Board Matters => About This Site => Topic started by: fike on August 28, 2013, 12:47:05 pm
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I am tired of the amount of trivial dross we are seeing on LuLa. No, I don't want to talk about it. I don't want to point fingers. I don't want to even define what I mean. Instead, I want to make a suggestion. The Simple Machines mod called Good Post/Bad Post might help to reduce two problems:
1) People junking up threads with no-content posts that say only "+1" or similar
2) Trolls continuously disrupting threads with rants
The Good Post/Bad Post mod is a nice tool. similar post ranking has proven itself at Reddit.
Here is a link to the mod: http://custom.simplemachines.org/mods/index.php?mod=1890
The Good Post/Bad Post mod is configurable to remove unnecessary troll shaming and could be used to help promote the most helpful and knowledgeable contributors. The crux of the tool is that if enough people down-vote a posting, it would disappear. If our host is uncomfortable with that much (negative) power in the hands of the hive, then you can simply count positive feedback towards a "respect" score that would act as positive reinforcement of good behavior.
I hope my suggestion is taken as a constructive idea. I really enjoy LuLa forums and think this sort of enhancement would help everyone in the community to get more out of it.
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1) People junking up threads with no-content posts that say only "+1" or similar
I personally think that's helpful. If looking for guidance and finding 10 people supporting someones concept, it seems to support that viewpoint without taking much time in reading.
But your suggestion does seem to improve on this, a "like" button for a post does serve pretty much the same purpose and will probably get many more responses for people that agree ... perhaps even more useful.
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I personally think that's helpful. If looking for guidance and finding 10 people supporting someones concept, it seems to support that viewpoint without taking much time in reading.
But your suggestion does seem to improve on this, a "like" button for a post does serve pretty much the same purpose and will probably get many more responses for people that agree ... perhaps even more useful.
Totally agree. The problem was that I couldn't find a premade "like" plugin to Simple Machines forums that LuLa forums uses, but this "Good Post/Bad Post" plugin IS a premade plug-in to the software, so the work effort to implement it would be small. It does look like Good Post/BadPost could be implemented in basically the same way as a like button.
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+1
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This one is a lot less subtle, but terribly funny.
http://custom.simplemachines.org/mods/index.php?mod=799
No, I am not suggesting we use this one.
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+1
That is so bad ;D
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In my years of reading of this forum I've had little or no problem with trolls or rants or +1's. Such posts are easy to skip when reading a thread, or not, as the reader chooses.
Serious trolling or uncivil behavior can be dealt with by utilizing the report-post function already present in the forum. I've rarely done that, on the contrary, I've found the forum to be well behaved compared to many other online forums.
In sum, I don't see what benefit would accrue to this forum from a Facebook-style "like/don't like" ("good post/bad post") voting function.
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+1
+2
;-)
Rob C (Self-appointed czar of freedom of speech.)
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That is so bad ;D
Am I to assume that, in this case at least, "bad" is the new "good"? Jes askin.
Roy
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I agree with daws. Not sure what the benefit to this forum would be Most of us know which posters we usually skip and which treads have gone bad.
Les
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No go I'm afraid. We tried to install and it doesn't work with our version of the SMF software, it only works with the 2.x (unstable) versions and very old 1.x versions. Sorry.
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No go I'm afraid. We tried to install and it doesn't work with our version of the SMF software, it only works with the 2.x (unstable) versions and very old 1.x versions. Sorry.
That's too bad. Have you guys considered turning on Karma. I think that is in your version.
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+1
*Like*
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bump
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In my years of reading of this forum I've had little or no problem with trolls or rants or +1's. Such posts are easy to skip when reading a thread, or not, as the reader chooses.
Serious trolling or uncivil behavior can be dealt with by utilizing the report-post function already present in the forum. I've rarely done that, on the contrary, I've found the forum to be well behaved compared to many other online forums.
In sum, I don't see what benefit would accrue to this forum from a Facebook-style "like/don't like" ("good post/bad post") voting function.
+1
(No, seriously!)
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Given that the OP is in favor of a Like button (in absence of his wet dream, a WMD, a.k.a. Bad Post button), the question arises (now seriously, again) what is the difference between Like and +1? After all, +1 is Google's equivalent of FB's Like.
What's not to like about +1?
- it is shorter than Like, thus saving trees, bandwidth, planet ultimately
- it saves me from retyping what someone else already said, usually more eloquently than I could (saving, again, trees, bandwidth, etc.)
- it gives a poster an indication that people read his post, let alone a confidence boost that someone actually agrees with him or likes his pictures
- I've been known to argue for quite some time against "constructive criticism," arguing instead that every criticism should be accepted as constructive. My people say that, for a smart head, even a mosquito buzz is music (and you can't get a shorter buzz than +1).
You know, the type of "constructive" criticism that is RedwoodGuy long and detailed, the one where, in order to tell you what they really think of your work, they have to go on and on, but first have to give you three feel-good things (i.e., more tree-distroying fluff). Like telling a writer that what they like about his new book is the lovely font he chose for it.
Ooops, I just realized I embarked on yet another rant of mine. Which brings us to another OP topic, rants.
What's wrong with rants*? One man's rant is another man's gem of skillful writing, stream of consciousness, humor of absurd, tidbits of real life. As much as I benefit from them, god save me if all I could read in the future are those dry, serious, technically and politically correct, posts. Some people take themselves, and the world, too seriously.
'Good post' button? This site used to have a star-rating system. Guess what? I had, at some point, before people knew better, all five stars. At the same time, Schewe had... three! Every time someone would give him five stars for expertise, someone else would give him one for... his debate style. So, whose expertise would you trust more, especially if you are a newbie?
* EDIT: The same applies to "trolls"
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I am tired of the amount of trivial dross we are seeing on LuLa. No, I don't want to talk about it. I don't want to point fingers. I don't want to even define what I mean. Instead, I want to make a suggestion. The Simple Machines mod called Good Post/Bad Post might help to reduce two problems:
1) People junking up threads with no-content posts that say only "+1" or similar
2) Trolls continuously disrupting threads with rants
The Good Post/Bad Post mod is a nice tool. similar post ranking has proven itself at Reddit.
Here is a link to the mod: http://custom.simplemachines.org/mods/index.php?mod=1890
The Good Post/Bad Post mod is configurable to remove unnecessary troll shaming and could be used to help promote the most helpful and knowledgeable contributors. The crux of the tool is that if enough people down-vote a posting, it would disappear. If our host is uncomfortable with that much (negative) power in the hands of the hive, then you can simply count positive feedback towards a "respect" score that would act as positive reinforcement of good behavior.
I hope my suggestion is taken as a constructive idea. I really enjoy LuLa forums and think this sort of enhancement would help everyone in the community to get more out of it.
One can that it but it wont reduce trolling at all. Thats just how the internet (a disconnected, not a face to face experience) works.
Also the like behaviour is erratic. Posts/videos/whatever with many likes dont mean that they have neccessarily a high quality. Sometimes a whole forum seems to consist of trolls, and everybody can also be a troll. Everybody has his bad times thats just normal. Personally, if something disturbs me too much I just go.
So such a feature can be nice and handy but it wont better discussion culture/climate. The basic problem of fruitless discussions is everywhere more or less the same no matter what the circumstances are. Good moderators (in the sense of the word, moderators, as opposed to escalators) can make a difference as is the case at Lula.
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Given that the OP is in favor of a Like button (in absence of his wet dream, a WMD, a.k.a. Bad Post button), the question arises (now seriously, again) what is the difference between Like and +1? After all, +1 is Google's equivalent of FB's Like.
What's not to like about +1?
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Thanks for your substantive reply. When you actually articulate your opinion instead of mocking people, we can learn from one another, and I can address your skepticism..
You know, the type of "constructive" criticism that is RedwoodGuy long and detailed, the one where, in order to tell you what they really think of your work, they have to go on and on, but first have to give you three feel-good things (i.e., more tree-distroying fluff). Like telling a writer that what they like about his new book is the lovely font he chose for it.
You mean people being disingenuous? Yes it happens. This has nothing to do with my suggestion.
What's wrong with rants? One man's rant is another man's gem of skillful writing, stream of consciousness, humor of absurd, tidbits of real life. As much as I benefit from them, god save me if all I could read in the future are those dry, serious, technically and politically correct, posts. Some people take themselves, and the world, too seriously.
Rants can be fine...if they are relevant. Let the community decide what makes a rant genius or confused.
So why would we want to use a rating system instead of +1 or like in individual posts. When you use a ranking of a posting that is tagged as metadata in the database you are given new tools to reward good contributors and discourage bad contributors. For example, if a person takes lots time to write a really thoughtful and useful tutorial on color theory and we all love it, it might be nice for that person's investment to be recognized. If you capture the data that people liked his posting, the forum can then create an index that shows all the highest rated posts of the week, and that entry on color theory might be on the top. This promotes good behavior. On the other hand if a person makes an unhelpful reply, people can downvote it and hide it from view. This would discourage the person from continuing this type of posting. There is no need for heavy-handed moderating. There is no need for people to tangle-up in a distracting off-topic back and forth. threads stay on topic and the LuLa community polices itself. Would it be perfect? No. Is this model working well in other places? Yes: Karma at Reddit is probably the most notable success of the hive reinforcing good behavior with upvoting and downvoting.
Of course this technology can't be implemented here because the software versions are incompatible. So, Slobodan, you needn't worry your little head one bit about needing to do something new and different.
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... So, Slobodan, you needn't worry your little head one bit about needing to do something new and different.
#Bad Post
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+1.
OP starts thread espousing more civil behavior, doesn't get support, gets panties in bunch.
And that, ladies and gents, is the internet. ;)
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Not being able to simply 'like' a post makes forum seem clunky once you've used FB or G+.
It's a simple and very effective way of acknowledging what someone has said was useful/interesting/informative etc.
Whereas writing a reply to post which may be nowhere near post in question to try and communicate your approval is clumsy and often not worth doing.
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It's a simple and very effective way of ...
...feeling that you've expressed yourself when you have nothing whatsoever to say, or were just confused or mistaken or... ;-)
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+1
Naughty naughty!
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...feeling that you've expressed yourself when you have nothing whatsoever to say, or were just confused or mistaken or... ;-)
No, it's exactly as I said - It's a simple and very effective way of acknowledging what someone has said was useful/interesting/informative etc.
Just because you don't get it, doesn't mean others also struggle.
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Saying something again still doesn't make it The Only TruthTM :-)
+1 and Like fill more than one role.
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Saying something again still doesn't make it The Only TruthTM :-)
Obviously it is not 'the only truth' because [as usual] you interpret things in your own unique way. But for the rest of us, its meaning is nothing like your cynical view.
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You can hide people so that you don't see their posts. Only takes a few minutes to silence all the annoying culprits.
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This forum is the most civilised place of any online forum I have posted on (especially photog ones).
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You can hide people so that you don't see their posts. Only takes a few minutes to silence all the annoying culprits.
The point is not to hide bad people (there really aren't any of those here), but to hide bad posts...and more importantly to promote great posts.
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The point is not to hide bad people (there really aren't any of those here), but to hide bad posts...and more importantly to promote great posts.
That is subjective. I am sure there are some who think your original post was bad but you think it is good.
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That is subjective. I am sure there are some who think your original post was bad but you think it is good.
YES! Yay! You finally get it. Of course that post would be hidden if it was tagged as a bad post by lots of people. That is the whole point.
In practice, these things aren't really used to censor something people disagree with. They are used more to hide irrelevant or grossly inflammatory statements. We are all adults and we understand disagreement--that is how we learn and grow.
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This forum is the most civilised place of any online forum I have posted on (especially photog ones).
I find FB far, far more civilised. But then I don't befriend lunatics. ;D
Only one or two percent are people I've not met in the real world and I befriended them because we had mutual friends so I had interacted a fair bit with them online first and got on.
Somehow I don't think any of my friends will be appearing on this FB page (https://www.facebook.com/WSOTD?fref=ts). Which is a real insight into a whole other world, sometimes scary, sometimes jaw-droppingly bad and sometimes plain bonkers.
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Of course that post would be hidden if it was tagged as a bad post by lots of people. That is the whole point.
Majority rule, with neither constitution nor law enforcement. Sounds like a recipe for disaster.
In practice, these things aren't really used to censor something people disagree with. They are used more to hide irrelevant or grossly inflammatory statements.
Report to moderator - they can ban as they see fit, and they do.
We are all adults and we understand disagreement--that is how we learn and grow.
Well, no. I would suggest that we learn by well reasoned debate and discussion; not necessarily by the majority view.
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Getting away from the mob rule is the very reason I am here.
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This sort of voting can end up being like an online lynch mob, or at best a high school clique, with the in-crowd "like"ing each others posts and voting down the odd-balls. Personally I don't want to take part in a forum like that.
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This sort of voting can end up being like an online lynch mob, or at best a high school clique, with the in-crowd "like"ing each others posts and voting down the odd-balls.
Exactly right. The various flavors of "like/dislike" forum voting features are no more informative than school popularity contests -- they don't tell you anything about the candidate. Even if the goals set forth in the Opening Post of this thread were needed on this forum (which I and others have argued they are not), such forum features are incapable of accomplishing those goals.
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Did not DP Review have the same experiment with thumbs up/down recently? The thumbs-down button disappeared quicker than you can say "bad idea." Even "thumbs up" is rarely used.
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An interesting peek into the range of personality, I suppose. Come upon something mundane and pre-existing, with an established structure and form (this forum, your bank's website, the local school board, the placement of the benches in the town square, the trash pickup schedule, the layout of your cell phone statement, etc., etc.) and set out to change it.
Noting some 'flaw' or 'deficiency', some folks just shrug or move on, others feel compelled to make suggestions, lobby for change, write a strongly-worded letter, etc.
My dad was the former, my mom the latter.
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If it ain't broke, don't fix it ;)
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You can hide people so that you don't see their posts. Only takes a few minutes to silence all the annoying culprits.
How does one do this? I've seen it on other BBS but wasn't aware of this feature on LuLa forum?
Rand
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I little bit hidden feature... go to your own profile... anyway, the picture tells it all:
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Slobo, This says "..message options." Does it apply to posts and messages, or does it block only messages?
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Slobo, This says "..message options." Does it apply to posts and messages, or does it block only messages?
Both.
As I mentioned, it is not only hidden, but also obscure and confusing, but in reality it blocks both.
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I think that only blocks messages from individuals, not forum posts.
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I think that only blocks messages from individuals, not forum posts.
Why reply if you don't know? It works just fine as was stated. Here's what it looks like when you block someone.
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I stand corrected. I suggest you permanently block me.
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I little bit hidden feature... go to your own profile... anyway, the picture tells it all:
It works!!! Thank you very much.
Rand
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Yes, it works. I have found it very useful several times in the past. Currently, deportment seems pretty good, so I don't have anybody currently blocked.