Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Mirrorless Cameras => Topic started by: LK23 on August 19, 2013, 06:26:10 pm
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I recently sold my Canon EOS 5D Mark II and all lenses. I was finding I wasn't using this system because the camera and lens were too heavy to lug around. I shoot landscape photography primarily. I am considering purchasing a mirrorless camera and currently have my sights on the Sony NEX 7. I would appreciate your thoughts on this camera and others, as well as the best group of lens for landscape photography.
Additionally, I retained my Gitzo tripod. Any suggestions on ball heads and quick release plates for the mirrorless camera?
Thanks,
Rex
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I did the same.
Sold nearly all my Canon gear.
I bought Fuji x-pro1 and Fujinon XF 14mm
That combo is light,easy to use and the combo is sharper than my 5d2 with canon TSE 24mm II .
And i'm a landscape photographer.
I went from 12kg gear and a big backpack to 1.5kg gear and I kept the IQ..
Sorry for bad English
Cheers Daniel
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In the studio, on a tripod, with adapted lenses, I'm quite happy with my NEX-7. As a handheld camera with native lenses (35mm f1.8 OSS) I've not gotten on well with it. I also am not fond of how it renders once light levels start to drop and ISO starts to get above ISO400. I can't quantify this, but the images just look off.
My X-Pro1 I use for portraits and event work and find it handles nicely with consistently good image quality throughout the ISO range.
A friend of mine has an OM-D, which he loves, but I find it too small to hold comfortably.
Just the other day I did a quick and dirty comparison of my three primary cameras (a850, Nex-7 & X-Pro1) with each of their normal lenses (50mm f1.4 Minolta, 35mm f1.8 OSS & 35mm f1.4 respectively). I shot a small still life set-up lit with daylight with each camera on a tripod and set to base ISO. At middle apertures there is little to choose between them in terms of image quality. Wide-open the lenses have clear quality differences.
The point being: IMO instead of image quality, how a camera handles, for you, should be considered most strongly. You might want to play with the cameras in the store rather than buying blind if you can.
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Get yourself a Sigma DP1 or DP2 Merrill.
Both can be had for around $1500.00 ($750 each).
You will not a find a camera that has better image quality when used within their operating windows.
The DP's will easily out resolve anything out there except for a D800 or a MF.
The image of quality of the DP2 in particular is stunning.
The only caution is they are not good low light cameras.
Really do not want to use them above ISO 800.
Read Michael Reichmann's reviews of them.
I absolutely love mine.
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There are lots of great choices in these compact system cameras. I am personally a proponent of Micro Four Thirds. the Olympus OM-D E-M5 has matched any other compact camera out there but it has a much wider selection of high-quality native lenses--when I say native, I mean lenses that don't need adapters and that RETAIN AUTO FOCUS. I don't like working with manual focus because my vision isn't excellent.
In the Olympus environment, the best lenses for landscape are probably their set of excellent primes:
Oly 12mm f/2
Oly 17mm f/1.8
Pan 25 f/1.4
Oly 45 f/1.8
Oly 75 f/1.8
The quality of this set of lenses compares favorably of any other system of lenses.
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There are lots of great choices in these compact system cameras. I am personally a proponent of Micro Four Thirds. the Olympus OM-D E-M5 has matched any other compact camera out there but it has a much wider selection of high-quality native lenses--when I say native, I mean lenses that don't need adapters and that RETAIN AUTO FOCUS. I don't like working with manual focus because my vision isn't excellent.
In the Olympus environment, the best lenses for landscape are probably their set of excellent primes:
Oly 12mm f/2
Oly 17mm f/1.8
Pan 25 f/1.4
Oly 45 f/1.8
Oly 75 f/1.8
The quality of this set of lenses compares favorably of any other system of lenses.
If you are willing to stitch, what you get from the Oly 45 should be spectacular. Unfortunately, the two wides are not as impressive as I understand it because of corner softness, which I would not particularly want in a landscape lens.
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If you are willing to stitch, what you get from the Oly 45 should be spectacular. Unfortunately, the two wides are not as impressive as I understand it because of corner softness, which I would not particularly want in a landscape lens.
I haven't found that to be the case with the 12mm whatsoever.
Stop it down to, say, 4 or 5.6, and it's as sharp as any WA I've ever used.
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I'll echo the first reply. I kept all of my heavier equipment and still use it, but purchased an X-Pro 1 when it first came out.
With the upgrades to the firmware and quality of the lenses, I use it more now than my Nikon cameras and for landscape work I have A1 size prints hanging on my walls that look fine.
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You might consider one of the Sigma DP Merrill cameras which come in 3 different versions (focal lengths). When the conditions are right it's hard to beat the resolution from these compact, Foveon sensor equipped cameras.
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although i'm not giving up my Canon FF system (high ISO, action AF, etc) I've actively followed mirrorless system development for some time (and bought, tested, and returned a couple cameras) as there are lots of times when a lighter, less obtrusive camera is highly desirable (in addition to the air travel with big camera and lenses hassle). But I haven't found anything yet that satisfies my requirements - which are broader than landscape.
micro 4/3 are pretty marginal for big prints, but the lenses are much more compact and lighter than APSC and generally better quality -from the significantly smaller image circle - which is a problem for me as I really prefer the 3/2 format in general and particularly for landscape and stitching. that said, the Pany GX-7 seems to have all the bases covered.
i'm so impressed with the functionality and IQ of my Sony RX 100 that i'm eagerly awaiting the new RX7 and RX9. The issue is that these compact cameras have - and will have - lenses (at least the good ones) that aren't a lot different in size and weight than DSLR lenses. If Sony get's the RX 9 right I could be persuaded to spend real money making it my wide-normal system.
For landscape only - assuming reasonable light and/or tripod the Sigma DP Merrills look hard to beat - Lloyd Chambers - diglloyd.com - has done a fair amount of comparison to the Nikon D800E - you just have to put up with the limitations and workflow (which is not for me). and do the available focal lengths suit your style
the other camera deserving mention is the Ricoh GH - not as sharp as the Sigma, but none of the quirky limitations - if 28mm suits your style - hopefully they will offer a couple more focal lengths.
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i'm so impressed with the functionality and IQ of my Sony RX 100 that i'm eagerly awaiting the new RX7 and RX9.
I would much appreciate a link to information about these. I haven't been able to find anything about a sony rx7 (only the panasonic) or rx9. Like you, I am a big fan of the rx100.
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sonyalpharumors.com and mirrorlessrumors - looks like the announcement will be end of Sept
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I cannot say enough good things about the Panasonic G3 system. True, I have not compared it against any of the other mirrorless systems, but ... I am a photographer, not an equipment reviewer.
You get 16 megapixels in a light and well-designed body. You get the option of using the eye-level viewfinder (electronic, of course) or an articulated LCD screen. The lenses are great, I believe the optics come from Leica. The focal length factor is 2x. I typically carry the 7-14, the 14-42, the 45-200, and the 100-300. I also have an optically stunning Olympus macro that I use with an adapter. So, I have full-frame equivalent of 14 to 600 mm, the longer lenses are VR, and the entire package fits in a modest-sized backpack and does not kill my weary old back. When I was trekking through jungles in Nicaragua last year, I managed to carry all this without a problem.
You can check out my website if you like (URL below). The Nicaragua portfolio photos were all taken with the G3 and the Alaska ones with the G2, the 10 MP predecessor.
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I think based on this thread I know why mirrorless system cameras are doing so poorly in the market.
Arguably there are four (maybe five depending on who you count) serious players in the mirrorless system market: Sony, Olympus, Panasonic, and Fuji are probably the big four.
Of course Canon and Nikon have sewn up the top 3/4ths of the "not-a-compact-camera" market. This leaves these four other manufacturers to a fragmented fight for the Canikon's droppings--that last quarter of the "not-a-compact-camera" market. The fighting is cannibalizing all the players. Panasonic and Olympus only survive because they are using the same system. Sony survives because they have great distribution channels. Fuji is a cool niche player. With all four fighting over the droppings behind Canikon, is is likely to remain a fragmented space without any real leaders.
The only question is who bows out first. My bet would be on Panasonic based on market share, but they have a massive corporate sponsor in Panasonic. Sony has the same thing going for it. Who drops first?
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I seem to remember sales volumes for Canon and Nikon's full size offerings dropping off, but can't remember the source-might have been Lloyd Chamber's blog.
I came from LF, got a D800E, still use it only on a tripod. I don't think mirrorless will do everything it will do, but for less than deadly serious work, the Sony NEX 7 or the Oly OmD-5 are pretty close, and a lot easier to carry around. I just got the sony, and have yet to find a weak spot. I understand they are coming out with some new stuff in a month or so, so I would wait and see what happens to their prices.
If you really want good data, DxO is VERY accurate in their testing of cameras and lenses
for example, they give the Sony RX1R a higher rating than the Leica M9.
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Wait for the Sony mirrorless full-frame camera. It's almost no longer a rumour, with an October announcement likely.
Using an adapter, you'd be able to fit any lens you want to that.
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Get a Sigma DP2 Merril and be done with it! I have 4x5s, 6x7s and a d800e kit, but what I grab 95% of the time is my dp2. Simplify your vision! Sharpness of the dp2 is CRAZY, corner to corner. Only lens that matches that performance in my d800e kit is my manual Samyang 35mm (OMG a killer lens!!). 20" x 30" prints basically same sharpness as the d800e (except to the pixel peeping crowd - that has never actually sold a print! :D). Sigma DP2 + cheap lens hood + 2 lb tripod and your good to go.
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Wait for the Sony mirrorless full-frame camera. It's almost no longer a rumour, with an October announcement likely.
Using an adapter, you'd be able to fit any lens you want to that.
...and the lenses to cover that full frame sensor will be big again and the fact that you have a little body won't matter any more. All the compact full frame cameras have had very 'normal' range fixed lenses. There is a reason for that. Big sensors = big lenses. compact full frame continues to be a niche that I suspect will always be limited either with large lenses or very narrow range of fixed focal length lenses.
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...and the lenses to cover that full frame sensor will be big again and the fact that you have a little body won't matter any more. All the compact full frame cameras have had very 'normal' range fixed lenses. There is a reason for that. Big sensors = big lenses. compact full frame continues to be a niche that I suspect will always be limited either with large lenses or very narrow range of fixed focal length lenses.
Not necessarily.
Sony body plus Leica M lenses with an adapter may be a good combination.
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...and the lenses to cover that full frame sensor will be big again and the fact that you have a little body won't matter any more. All the compact full frame cameras have had very 'normal' range fixed lenses. There is a reason for that. Big sensors = big lenses. compact full frame continues to be a niche that I suspect will always be limited either with large lenses or very narrow range of fixed focal length lenses.
unless the sony has in body stabilization. Probably only help if Sony makes lenses specifically for the full frame NEX, and not design it simply to use sony A lenses.
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I now have converted fully from Canon FF to Fuji X, no regrets. I shoot landscape and travel, and am using two XE-1's and 14 and 35mm lenses. This system is very good and very simple to use.
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I now have converted fully from Canon FF to Fuji X, no regrets. I shoot landscape and travel, and am using two XE-1's and 14 and 35mm lenses. This system is very good and very simple to use.
Surely you can't get the same image quality from a crop sensor, though, unless you're stitching panoramas.
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Surely you can't get the same image quality from a crop sensor, though, unless you're stitching panoramas.
Sensor size is not the only thing which determines the quality. When I first got my X-Pro1 I tested it against Canon 5DII and found it to be equal in image quality and sharpness and better in DR and high ISO, even if the Canon is FF and has more pixels. Sigma Merrills are sharper than any DSLR except D800, and they also have smaller sensors.
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.. against Canon 5DII and found it to be equal in image quality and sharpness and better in DR and low ISO..
.. and at high ISO it 'rocks' too (not only against the 5DII) .
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.. and at high ISO it 'rocks' too (not only against the 5DII) .
My mistake, I meant high ISO...
fixed...
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Surely you can't get the same image quality from a crop sensor, though, unless you're stitching panoramas.
A low to middle ISO's, on screen and in prints up to A3 no one can pick my MFT shots from my 5D shots at anything better than chance.
You really have to try these smaller chip cameras to see the image quality they're capable of.
If I was happy with night time shooting I'd sell all my 5D gear, if there were any buyers... it seems like everyone is moving to smaller systems.
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A low to middle ISO's, on screen and in prints up to A3 no one can pick my MFT shots from my 5D shots at anything better than chance.
You really have to try these smaller chip cameras to see the image quality they're capable of.
If I was happy with night time shooting I'd sell all my 5D gear, if there were any buyers... it seems like everyone is moving to smaller systems.
I think the difference is that I never print as small as A3 - 24x36 is my regular frame, with 32x48 being common, as well as 20x60, 24x72 and 32x96 panoramas (made by shifting a tilt-shift lens).
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The comment still stands - You really have to try these smaller chip cameras to see the image quality they're capable of.
Another point, whenever I think that kit isn't up to the job I look at the results that others are getting with the same kit and I then usually change my mind and realise that the problem isn't the kit, it's me not getting the best out of it :D
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Personally, if I were making McMansion prints I'd go whole hog and invest in an MF back, or even a BetterLight, and a technical camera. (I have a Wista 4x5 but it lacks the movement breadth & precision of a proper tech camera.) But since my largest print size is in the 15x20" range the current m43 sensors are plenty good enough. And the best four-thirds & m43 lenses are truly first-rate. Not to mention that I don't print nearly as much as I used to.
-Dave-
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With proper technique*, the smaller mirrorless can produce excellent large prints, certainly comparable to the older full frame cameras like my 5D2. Pixel-peeping will show some differences, of course, but prints look very good. I'm just about ready to sell my personal Canon gear in favor of my Fuji kit. (I'll keep the Canon 1-series cameras that I use at work; can't shoot a football game with the Fuji, alas.)
(*good tripod, careful focus, cable release -- the usual stuff, in other words.)
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Hi,
Wide angles will probably have issues with lens cast. Leica M uses a specially made sensor + software to handle that.
Best regards
Erik
Not necessarily.
Sony body plus Leica M lenses with an adapter may be a good combination.
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Wide angles will probably have issues with lens cast. Leica M uses a specially made sensor + software to handle that.
I have, among others, noticed that with Fuji-X bodies the excellent Voigtländer wide-angles produce inferior results compared to the dedicated Fujinon XF lenses of similar focal length. This shows very clearly at the corners, even though the Voigtländers are full frame design. They just sit too close to the sensor for comfort.
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I have, among others, noticed that with Fuji-X bodies the excellent Voigtländer wide-angles produce inferior results compared to the dedicated Fujinon XF lenses of similar focal length. This shows very clearly at the corners, even though the Voigtländers are full frame design. They just sit too close to the sensor for comfort.
Yes, and not just the Voigtländers. I've been less than impressed with nearly all of my wide RF lenses both on Fuji X and m43 cameras. The wide I'm using on the X-E1 is the 1980s Leitz 21mm. It's not the sharpest of the bunch but it has the most even performance center to corners. No corner fringing or excessive falloff either.
-Dave-
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May have to do with the angle of incidence of the light ray from the lens and the shape of the microlens . I remember reading about one of the camera manufacturers ( Leica ? ) having to make adjustment in design.
Just a thought,
Frank
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Surely you can't get the same image quality from a crop sensor, though, unless you're stitching panoramas.
Obviously, if you make really large prints, as you seem to, then perhaps not, or maybe yes? You should give it a try, as others have said. I normally do not shot above 1600 ISO, so the little Fujis hold pretty well too. And the lenses are truly fantastic, especially the 14, there is simply no distortion, which for me is very importante (I shot a lot of seascpaes, so I like the horizon straight).
Bottom line, I am saving a lot of weight, without any visible compromises in my photography.
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really? it's better than the Canon D5 2 and 24 TS 2? Do you have some examples to prove that?
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I recently sold my Canon EOS 5D Mark II and all lenses. I was finding I wasn't using this system because the camera and lens were too heavy to lug around. I shoot landscape photography primarily. I am considering purchasing a mirrorless camera and currently have my sights on the Sony NEX 7. I would appreciate your thoughts on this camera and others, as well as the best group of lens for landscape photography.
Additionally, I retained my Gitzo tripod. Any suggestions on ball heads and quick release plates for the mirrorless camera?
Thanks,
Rex
With the right lenses, the NEX-7 is a wonderful performer with a few drawbacks for a landscape photographer. There are a lot of complaints about how bracketing's been implemented. I don't use bracketing, so I don't follow the conversations, but if you use it, you'll want to look into it. There's also the issue of no cabled release. You're dependent on I/R for a remote release, and even with Sony's OEM remote it has to be slightly in front of the camera to be recognized. If you go to the 6, you get wifi, so you can remotely fire via tablet or cell phone, but you lose the resolution of the 24MP sensor.
NEX-7 with Canon FD 50/1.2L @ f/5.6
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7453/10176537735_4a73a29dcf_o.jpg)
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I've been a Canon shooter since high school and my class is having our 40th reunion next weekend. My current Canon bodies are the 1Ds Mark III and 5D Mark III. I have a variety of Canon "L" glass and Zeiss primes. Love them all!
Most of my photography is either street, family or travel. I purchased the Fuji X-E1 a month ago along with the Fuji 18-55 and 55-200 zooms and the Zeiss 12mm and 32mm Touit prime lenses. After playing with these and pixel peeping using Lightroom 5.2 for a few weeks, I'm really impressed with the image quality. The lenses are all tack sharp and the Fuji X-trans sensor is remarkable for color, sharpness and low-noise. I'm in love with the compact size and low weight. I can fit the whole system into a small Tenba Mini Messenger bag and carry it all day long. In contrast, my Canon 5D with 24-105 L lens and 16-35 zoom in a backpack weighs a lot more.
Now, I just listed my Canon 1Ds Mark III for sale in this forum. I will keep the 5D Mark III because the focusing is awesomely fast for action photography. I plan to only take my Fuji X-E1 on my next vacation to Spain next summer. I also just ordered the awesome Fuji X100S as the travel back up camera and to use for very discreet street photography as it is very small and virtually silent.
I did check out the other mirrorless systems, but settled on Fuji X because of the overwhelming amount of good press they are receiving from pros and advanced amateurs for a lighter, more compact solution with no sacrifices in image quality than lugging around FF DSLRs.
Check out this website for firsthand stories: http://fujifilm-x.com/photographers/en/
Cheers,
Bud James
Doylestown, PA