Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs – and Large Sensor Photography => Topic started by: nad54 on August 07, 2013, 03:34:11 am
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Was told by Hasselblad last week that they are no longer servicing H3D (or earlier) digital backs. Just don't scratch that sensor cover whilst cleaning it, or get condensation behind it, or break the firewire port or...
I have bailed out on MFD, a very, very expensive exercise.
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Thanks for clarifying. I was told by the Pro Centre in London the IR replacement had been discontinued.
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Just to be clear, H3D11 cameras/backs are still fully suported and can be serviced by Hasselblad. H2D-22, H2D-39, H3D-22, H3D-39 and other older cameras/backs can still have IR Filter and Linkboard replacements.
Full details http://hasselbladbron.com/index.php?option=com_easyblog&view=entry&id=59&Itemid=128 (http://hasselbladbron.com/index.php?option=com_easyblog&view=entry&id=59&Itemid=128)
That statement may be true for the USA but it could be different for other countries. The fact that Hasselblad have closed some of their support centres does not mean that authorised servicing has ceased, it may be supported by independents.
Classic V has provided authorised service for the V system since closure of the UK service department in November 2012 in the UK and I have put in a request for my authorised status to extend to the H cameras. In other countries this has already happened, www.B23.dk in Denmark for example.
Check the status in your own country on the relevant Hasselblad website.
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For the record: I had an IR window exchanged by Hasselblad on and H3D-31 4 months ago. No problem. Hasselblad in Göteborg still services most of the H3D: the camera mechanics, basic features like the IR window and adjustment. The announcement concerns the electronics of some backs.
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Anyone could confirm if this is a Hasselblad official statement? Because i am in panic...i made a huge investement in the H3DII system
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Anyone could confirm if this is a Hasselblad official statement? Because i am in panic...i made a huge investement in the H3DII system
Since you've already made the investment, I suggest using it until it's unservicable. Panic isn't going to change your investment or the ability to get parts & service.
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I can confirm the authenticity of the post.
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I have it straight from the horse's mouth, AKA Hasselblad UK service, that the H3D11 is still supported and serviced by Hasselblad.
Thanks KLaban ! i have the H3DII 39MP and its great news that the complete system (body and digital back) are continued to be full supported and serviced by Hasselblad.
But i am afraid that for the future anyone with a old H3D are hurt very much in the price if they decide to sell it...because the parts serviced are now very limited in the digital back
H2D-22, H2D-39, H3D-22, H3D-39
- Service is available for analogue repair of the H body.
- Service is limited to IR Filter and Linkboard replacements.
- HBI will provide limited technical support
Its sad to see a great H3D 39MP 15.000$ digital back to turn in to a brick or a paper weigh because of just a small tecnical malfunction like a broke lcd or a bad button contact...so sad.
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"The discontinuation of Repair & Support Services due to the complexity and expense involved, as well as limited parts availability from our partners and suppliers, also goes along with the cessation of software and firmware development for these products.
Repair & Support for Ixpress backs, Flextight Precision and Flextight 343 scanners will continue via an authorised third-party repair centre: B23. B23 is a Danish repair centre founded by former Hasselblad Service Manager Jimmy Bjaaland. Contact details can be found within the Service & Support section of the Hasselblad website."
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Makes me glad I got my 132c done only last year, new filter and port! They even were even so kind to put a new casing on it as it had taken a few hits.
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Anyone could confirm if this is a Hasselblad official statement? Because i am in panic...i made a huge investement in the H3DII system
The statement is on Hasselblad-Broncolor site:
http://hasselbladbron.com/index.php?option=com_easyblog&view=entry&id=59&Itemid=179
It does not concern the H3DII.
Edit: changed "Hasselblad-Bronica" to "Hasselblad-Broncolor". I don't know why I wrote, "Bronica", except that it used to be a manufacturer of MF cameras...
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I’m just glad I never invested a cent in the Hasselblad system.
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So a camera purchased in 2007 now now longer has full support?
That's a poor show from Hblad, maybe their policy is now chasing new markets as it costs to much to offer a service to existing customers.
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it´s the same like Sinar - I wanted to buy a nearly new EMotion 75LV when I had to hear that by the end of this march 2013 Sinar stopped all service for these backs.
About the same Age, this one was bought new 2008 when I take the sellers saying about his purchase. So I dropped the deal.
Greetings from Germany
Stefan
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So a camera purchased in 2007 now now longer has full support?
That's a poor show from Hblad, maybe their policy is now chasing new markets as it costs to much to offer a service to existing customers.
Do you know any company manufacturing cameras which include digital electronic parts and which warranties service for longer than 5 years? Serious question.
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I know some folks who bought CF39 MS backs. The word from Hasselblad was that they'd support those backs for ten years. Perhaps a class action suit will materialize. Just another sign that H's future is uncertain.
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Leaf are still supporting their backs from 2005.
To the best of my knowledge all Aptuses are still serviceable.
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I know some folks who bought CF39 MS backs. The word from Hasselblad was that they'd support those backs for ten years. Perhaps a class action suit will materialize. Just another sign that H's future is uncertain.
The wording from Hasselblad can be found here:
http://www.hasselblad.com/service--support/after-sales-policies/spare-parts-for-discontinued-products.aspx
(http://www.hasselblad.com/service--support/after-sales-policies/spare-parts-for-discontinued-products.aspx)
Spare parts for scanners, digital backs and integrated cameras can be supplied for at least 5 years after production stops. Hasselblad will to the best of its ability supply spare parts for such products up to 10 years after production stops.
It says "5 years warranty", not "10 years". Make sure you find the exact wording they used 5 years ago before you sue them.
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Leaf are still supporting their backs from 2005.
To the best of my knowledge all Aptuses are still serviceable.
The question was: Do you know any company manufacturing cameras which include digital electronic parts and which warranties service for longer than 5 years? You are not answering that question. Of course there are electronic cameras which are still serviceable after 5 years.
A positive answer would be from a company that would warranty now that their cameras will be serviced in 10 years (or would have written so in the past).
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Warranty and support are two different issues. Support implies that they cannot be repaired.
The message, as perceived, is that H3D and earlier models can't be fixed if they go bad. That is not what they are saying, but that is the perception. As stated earlier, they should have set up the third party service in all their markets and been very clear about what limited service Blad will provide.
This is another fumble. I bet they are all smiles at Phase/Leaf today.
The wording from Hasselblad can be found here:
http://www.hasselblad.com/service--support/after-sales-policies/spare-parts-for-discontinued-products.aspx
(http://www.hasselblad.com/service--support/after-sales-policies/spare-parts-for-discontinued-products.aspx)
Spare parts for scanners, digital backs and integrated cameras can be supplied for at least 5 years after production stops. Hasselblad will to the best of its ability supply spare parts for such products up to 10 years after production stops.
It says "5 years warranty", not "10 years". Make sure you find the exact wording they used 5 years ago before you sue them.
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Leaf are still supporting their backs from 2005. To the best of my knowledge all Aptuses are still serviceable.
The question was: Do you know any company manufacturing cameras which include digital electronic parts and which warranties service for longer than 5 years? You are not answering that question. Of course there are electronic cameras which are still serviceable after 5 years.
A positive answer would be from a company that would warranty now that their cameras will be serviced in 10 years (or would have written so in the past).
Since you asked...
- Phase One provides guaranteed service on all P, P+, IQ, and IQ2 backs. The first of these was released in 2004. I see no signs of this support ending anytime soon.
- Phase One discontinued guaranteed service of H series (not to be confused with backs which mount to an H body) backs last year, the first of which was released in 1998 and the last of which was released in 2003. They will still gladly take such a back and do a service check and can do a variety of repairs for them like sync port replacements, but they cannot guarantee it will be repairable as they lack certain internal components which can no longer be sourced.
- Phase One provides (via their dealers) up to a five year initial warranty on new IQ and IQ2 backs and up to a three year initial warranty on new P+ backs.
- Phase One will gladly provide (via their dealers) warranty extensions in increments of one year for as long as the user wishes to extend it. This applies for all P, P+, IQ, and IQ2 backs, so, if it made sense for your business, you could continue warranty on a P20 or P25 released in 2004. In practice I don't know any of our customers that have a warranty still on a P25, but I do know a small number that have continued their warranty on P45 units (released in 2005); all are product/catalog shooters for whom the back is still a daily workhorse and the cost of the warranty is more like a form of insurance which guarantees they won't have to make room in their budget for an unexpected camera-replacement or camera-repair cost.
- Phase One has also provided continued software support for every single-shot back they have ever produced. You can use Capture One v7 in Windows 64 or OSX 10.8 with a Lightphase back released in 1998; in fact because of improvements to the underlying raw processing math the image quality will be significantly better with that combination than it was the day it was released.
Leaf provides service on Valeo 17 and later (released 2003). This of course includes the more recent Aptus, Aptus S, Aptus II, and Credo lines.
Both Leaf and Phase backs can be used on any compatible body (not just "matched" pairs) with a pretty good history of both forward and backward compatibility. For instance a P25 from 2004 works on a DF+ from 2012 an IQ from 2011 works on an AFD1 from 2002 (this combo is not officially supported and is a bit buggy sometimes, but given the age difference it works pretty darn well). This is relevant to the discussion at hand because if a body becomes unserviceable (i.e. is dropped off a cliff) a replacement body can be had from any source (KEH, eBay, forums, dealer, rental house etc) – this increases the long term viability of a given back or body.
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At least a few regional hassey reps assured folks that their backs would be supported for ten years. Just 'sayin.
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The statement is on Hasselblad-Bronica site:
http://hasselbladbron.com/index.php?option=com_easyblog&view=entry&id=59&Itemid=179
It does not concern the H3DII.
That's Hasselblad "Bron" not Bronica. As in Broncolor.
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They seem to be flailing around. Lunar, the Steller. Now this. They make a fine product, no doubt, but the impression is that the company is screwy and desperate. I'm not sure if that's the case, but giving that Italian gentlement who was head of product marketing at DeLonghi might not have been the best idea.
Actually this announcement was made over a month ago and the discussion since has been heated, but yes, it can only benefit Phase/Leaf.
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There are good reasons and bad reasons for a company closing support for a certain model and I cant list them all here and I don't know what factors played a part in these changes.
But there are other things that are not under the control of a company that effect long term plans. For example changes in health and safety regulations among other things can effect the supply of components and a redesign of the product might not make commercial sense, you cant look into a crystal ball to see what legislation or ground-breaking technology is coming.
Service and support must be profitable where the product has a long life with a supply of components continuously made or set aside, the standard of the servicing must maintain the original standards of the product. If these are not fulfilled it will be a drain on the company and is untenable. The standard of service enjoyed by V system owners was a direct result of the longevity of the design and continuous production.
All the readers of this forum know what their equipment is and how it differs from the mainstream of photography and is is not realistic to compare it to mass produced items.
With the coming of 3D printing mechanical servicing may actually become cheaper (unlikely) but niche electronic designs are something else.
I don't think anybody with any affection for medium format will be smiling.
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Since you asked...
- Phase One provides guaranteed service on all P, P+, IQ, and IQ2 backs. The first of these was released in 2004. I see no signs of this support ending anytime soon.
- Phase One discontinued guaranteed service of H series (not to be confused with backs which mount to an H body) backs last year, the first of which was released in 1998 and the last of which was released in 2003. They will still gladly take such a back and do a service check and can do a variety of repairs for them like sync port replacements, but they cannot guarantee it will be repairable as they lack certain internal components which can no longer be sourced.
- Phase One provides (via their dealers) up to a five year initial warranty on new IQ and IQ2 backs and up to a three year initial warranty on new P+ backs.
- Phase One will gladly provide (via their dealers) warranty extensions in increments of one year for as long as the user wishes to extend it. This applies for all P, P+, IQ, and IQ2 backs, so, if it made sense for your business, you could continue warranty on a P20 or P25 released in 2004. In practice I don't know any of our customers that have a warranty still on a P25, but I do know a small number that have continued their warranty on P45 units (released in 2005); all are product/catalog shooters for whom the back is still a daily workhorse and the cost of the warranty is more like a form of insurance which guarantees they won't have to make room in their budget for an unexpected camera-replacement or camera-repair cost.
- Phase One has also provided continued software support for every single-shot back they have ever produced. You can use Capture One v7 in Windows 64 or OSX 10.8 with a Lightphase back released in 1998; in fact because of improvements to the underlying raw processing math the image quality will be significantly better with that combination than it was the day it was released.
This is obviously a better service than the one Hasselblad provides, but is still not an answer to the original question: Phase one never committed to repair any digital back beyond 5 years after date of sale. And as Douglas Fairbank pointed out a post above, it is unlikely that any company is doing that, because 5 years is a very long time for electronic products.
Don't misread me: I am very impressed by the level of support provided by Phase one and quite disappointed by Hasselblad announcement. But I know that support for electronics is usually pretty poor after a few years and that does not only concerns MF cameras.
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Warranty and support are two different issues. Support implies that they cannot be repaired.
The message, as perceived, is that H3D and earlier models can't be fixed if they go bad. That is not what they are saying, but that is the perception.
Indeed this is not what they are saying. Hasselblad will still repair the mechanics on the bodies and still services backs on some H3D models (e.g. the H3D-31). The backs are still supported by Phocus. Backs like the 22 and 39 mpix can still be adjusted or their IR window can still be exchanged.
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Service and support must be profitable where the product has a long life with a supply of components continuously made or set aside, the standard of the servicing must maintain the original standards of the product.
I do not agree.
Service and support should be set up efficiently such that it's not a huge resource-drain for the overall company, but it need not turn a profit.
It's a perfectly viable business model to say that your service and support departments function to reinforce customer loyalty and insure brand value is maintained. Ideally a service/support department functions so well, and is needed so infrequently, that customer interactions with that department are so positive they serve as defacto marketing.
I've personally had experiences with service/repair on products I owned (outside my day job) where I was so impressed that my likelihood of recommending the product to others, or to personally buy more in the future, was influenced in a way no marketing campaign could ever could. I think about these personal experiences anytime I'm involved with one of our customers in a repair/service/support situation.
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This will be a big hammer in the price of the used hasselblad market...we will see a big price drop of the H3D 39MP for example.
And its very important because for a vast number of photographer they start in the DMF with used systems.
After this we will see again anyone pushing 4500$ for a used H3D 39MP mark I ????
I love hasselblad, i start DMF with a used H3D 22MP 2 years ago and now a H3DII 39MP and the experience and the support have been 5***** stars, super great and fast feedback of my questions allways.
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Gosh, what a very strange day this is, I now find myself in complete agreement with Doug ;-)
Well we both post frequently enough it was bound to happen sometime :).
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What's the situation in the DSLR world on this kind of thing? Not that you can compare it, at those prices it's not that big a deal. This is more in comparison to the car world.
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This will be a big hammer in the price of the used hasselblad market...we will see a big price drop of the H3D 39MP for example.
Good news then! The armchair experts on this forum are always asking for cheaper MFDB..
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I do not agree.
Service and support should be set up efficiently such that it's not a huge resource-drain for the overall company, but it need not turn a profit.
It's a perfectly viable business model to say that your service and support departments function to reinforce customer loyalty and insure brand value is maintained. Ideally a service/support department functions so well, and is needed so infrequently, that customer interactions with that department are so positive they serve as defacto marketing.
I've personally had experiences with service/repair on products I owned (outside my day job) where I was so impressed that my likelihood of recommending the product to others, or to personally buy more in the future, was influenced in a way no marketing campaign could ever could. I think about these personal experiences anytime I'm involved with one of our customers in a repair/service/support situation.
Doug,
I agree, but really I don't think it works that way.
I just bought a car last year. Great dealer service, actually more than perfect. The dealer's margins had to be tiny in the way they worked with me.
Had a friend ask about my car, gave them the dealers card, explained how they went above and beyond and he went and paid more for another brand and now doesn't like what he bought.
I've seen this a lot, in cameras, cars, computers . . .
People buy what they want to buy, no matter how much info you furnish, unless it's negative.
IMO
BC
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Yeah but I went back to my dealer multiple times when I was buying cause they didn't quibble on service. Perhaps others will ignore me but I know what brands and stores I prefer to buy from when I'm dealing professionally, i.e. when I can't afford to lose service.
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Hooray, another wise move ;D
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Hooray, another wise move ;D
That's really not a fair statement.
I guess it's easy for me to say since I don't own a h3d, but nobody services electronic stuff forever. I'm amazed my p21+ and my p30+ are even allowed in Phase One's software and that they continue to improve their files. OK I guess I should say real lucky.
Anyway, the high end market . . . actually the market for all cameras has taken a hit in the last couple of years. The camera of choice of the millenials and their parents is a cell phone and those amateurs that use to load up one roll of neg film a week in their Bronicas, Blads and Nikons kept us all in professional equipment.
Lately Hasselblad has taken a lot of heat for the lumina and in a way I can see some of it is justified, but they're just pushing for a market that a lot of companies is going for. I saw on the Wall Street Journal Yesterday, $5,000 lingerie with real gold stitching. There market is Russia and some of the Arab states. I would imagine that is the same for the lumina.
The only thing I can really fault hasselblad for is their software. It's not bad, it's not great and honestly if you buy an h5d at this point it really should be great.
Other than that, they're just trying to turn a profit.
What I find more interesting is the fact that a large percentage of the younger assistants I work with all want to shoot some kind of film camera. I guess they feel they missed something (maybe they did) and film cameras are cheap, but their next choice is a cell phone.
That can't be good for any of us.
IMO
BC
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Hi,
I don't really think that keeping support for old cameras is much of an effort, unless there is a disruptive change like Apple switching software platform to 64-bit, and even a disruptive change can be handled with good coding practices.
I nevertheless feel that the present way with inconsistent raw formats is crazy. In film days we had a lot of slide film options but a single process, E6. Well, except for Kodachrome, of course. No one invented a new process for each film.
Best regards
Erik
I guess it's easy for me to say since I don't own a h3d, but nobody services electronic stuff forever. I'm amazed my p21+ and my p30+ are even allowed in Phase One's software and that they continue to improve their files. OK I guess I should say real lucky.
IMO
BC
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Owning old mf gear is a risk. The system is designed to stay with the upgrade programs. For a professional I would not recommend to enter mf if you cannot motivate the cost of staying with the latest and have the proper service programs. For an amateur like myself, second hand market has never been better, but don't buy for more than you can lose. Phase and Leaf should have credit for their long term support though, but electronics cannot be serviced forever, spare parts stop being manufactured.
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The Hasselblad have a large number of DMF user that still use the olds H1/H2/H3D and several love the H body system and lenses and use Phase backs.
Anyone looking to enter in DMF, could start with a old H1/H3D body and invest lost of money in Hasselblad lens, and them upgrade for a new generation system like the H3DII or H4D.
But with this news of no longer servicing H3D (or earlier) digital, maybe the new DMF user chose to start with other systems...
Anyone now if its possible to buy a H4Dx with good trade in price if anyone with a old H1/H2/H3D have a fatal malfunction with no repair?
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The electronic components themselves have a very short obsolescence period. Think about getting ram for an old MAC or getting a replacement disk drive reader. I guess these parts fail less often, but it might be hard for a company to keep a stock of say sensor chips sitting around where the cost is really high so I can understand the service problems on something like a digital back.
But you have to wonder what is going on at the top of Hb just looking at the trajectory ... the lunar, the discontinuation of the V, news about another consumer camera instead of new MF backs, and now the service thing. Hmmm... Hopefully they will offer people with these non serviceable backs a nice trade in price.
For me, I have a CF-528 which I use on my Rollei 6008AF and not a H camera, so even if they offered me a big trade in value on that back I wouldn't be able to take it.
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That's really not a fair statement.
I guess it's easy for me to say since I don't own a h3d, but nobody services electronic stuff forever. I'm amazed my p21+ and my p30+ are even allowed in Phase One's software and that they continue to improve their files. OK I guess I should say real lucky.
Anyway, the high end market . . . actually the market for all cameras has taken a hit in the last couple of years. The camera of choice of the millenials and their parents is a cell phone and those amateurs that use to load up one roll of neg film a week in their Bronicas, Blads and Nikons kept us all in professional equipment.
Lately Hasselblad has taken a lot of heat for the lumina and in a way I can see some of it is justified, but they're just pushing for a market that a lot of companies is going for. I saw on the Wall Street Journal Yesterday, $5,000 lingerie with real gold stitching. There market is Russia and some of the Arab states. I would imagine that is the same for the lumina.
The only thing I can really fault hasselblad for is their software. It's not bad, it's not great and honestly if you buy an h5d at this point it really should be great.
Other than that, they're just trying to turn a profit.
What I find more interesting is the fact that a large percentage of the younger assistants I work with all want to shoot some kind of film camera. I guess they feel they missed something (maybe they did) and film cameras are cheap, but their next choice is a cell phone.
That can't be good for any of us.
IMO
BC
it was sarcasm ...
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Anyone knows if its possible to buy a H4Dx with good trade in price if anyone with a old H1/H2/H3D have a fatal malfunction with no repair?
The H1/H2/H3D bodies can still be serviced without problem. The H4x can only be traded in against a H1 or H2/H2F, not an H3.
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I am still hoping that the collaboration between Sony and Hasselblad will eventually result in something great...
but it is true that every time Hasselblad has been in the news lately the message was not exactly hopeful...
Some communication that emphasizes that HB is committed to its MFDB offerings would probably be appreciated by lots of people...
Most software companies typically only support the last 2 major releases, in HB terms that would be H4 and H5...
See also communication last year about Leica no longer replacing the LCD screen of the M8:
http://lavidaleica.com/content/storm-brewing-over-m8-lcd-issue
It is very sad... If you have an M1 to M7 chances are that it will still work a long time from now, if you have a M8 or M9 most likely not.
Same for Hasselblad. The V cameras risk outliving the H cameras...
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Due to the pricing people expect longer term support and service than for typical electronic products, and they should. So while I do think the long-term support from some of the MFDB manufacturers is impressive I think it's something you should expect for a product costing $30K at its release.
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Same for Hasselblad. The V cameras risk outliving the H cameras...
I think a lot of older stuff was designed to last a lifetime - just needing service or an adjustment every now and then. Products now are designed to be replaced every few years - its part of a business plan that also downplays service when they will have a new one to offer you when your current one breaks. Funny how that is - I live in an old victorian house. People said it would be expensive with all the old things that would need fixing. But actually its the opposite... all the old things, light fixtures, etc. just keep going, but all the new stuff breaks every few years and has to be replaced. Makes me angry because the cost of the parts is cheap the time and effort to replace stuff is not. I'd rather pay more for something that lasts.
Love my Rollei's for this. My TLR keeps working like new and its a lot older than I am. Plus all of their cameras can be serviced. Same for the Linhof's. I would have said that for the Leica too but the DMR already not so sure, but the older ones are fine. I kind of love the old stuff for all that.
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Who cares, the H3D is a disastrous, I'd say unusable system with horrible skin tones. Just get a D600 already. (and yes, I've used almost everything on the market)
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Who cares, the H3D is a disastrous, I'd say unusable system with horrible skin tones. Just get a D600 already. (and yes, I've used almost everything on the market)
This is a stunningly ill-informed comment. Are you suggesting that all the H3D cameras with both Dalsa and Kodak chips produce horrible skin tones? That doesn't make any sense.
There are 1000's of photographers shooting people with these cameras are you suggesting that none of them have noticed that they are using disastrous/unusable cameras with horrible skin tones?
???
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Yes, maybe I spoke a little rashly. However, the skin tones are so red, it struggles with anyone who isn't whiter than white.
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Hi,
Which raw converter did you use?
Best regards
Erik
Yes, maybe I spoke a little rashly. However, the skin tones are so red, it struggles with anyone who isn't whiter than white.
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Hasselblads own software.
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Do you have the latest version (2.7.4) and are you 100% sure that there are no adjustments being applied to the imported images, it's very easy to overlook.
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Yep, I did very extensive tests, Hasselblads skin tones are just kind of red. Also, as a camera I just didn't get on with it, actually, I've never hated a camera more. I owned it for about 2 weeks, sold it, lost 2 thousand dollars on it when I sold it and I was still super happy because I didn't own it anymore. Bought a Nikon D600 and was shocked at how good the files are. Couple that together with an massively better shooting experience and you can see why Hasselblad are struggling.
N.B. I have always previously shot Medium format phase backs and Leica M9's which used to be superior until this latest generation of Nikons came out.
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Exactly.
I think a lot of older stuff was designed to last a lifetime - just needing service or an adjustment every now and then. Products now are designed to be replaced every few years - its part of a business plan that also downplays service when they will have a new one to offer you when your current one breaks. Funny how that is - I live in an old victorian house. People said it would be expensive with all the old things that would need fixing. But actually its the opposite... all the old things, light fixtures, etc. just keep going, but all the new stuff breaks every few years and has to be replaced. Makes me angry because the cost of the parts is cheap the time and effort to replace stuff is not. I'd rather pay more for something that lasts.
Love my Rollei's for this. My TLR keeps working like new and its a lot older than I am. Plus all of their cameras can be serviced. Same for the Linhof's. I would have said that for the Leica too but the DMR already not so sure, but the older ones are fine. I kind of love the old stuff for all that.
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I kinow its off topic and someone will get mad, but: did you look at the D600 versus the D800? The D800, while a beautiful file, is choking my workflow. I wonder if teh D600 is like a scaled down D800 in terms of IQ. I've looked all over and haven't seen anything convincing one way or another.
And to keep it MF and Hasselblad: The old V lenses are incredible on the D800 if your stylle allows for slow shooting. I usually use the 150 and 80 for portraits, but I slapped on a 50mm c and loved it. Smooth and sharp at teh same time, not aggresive like a modern lens.
As to the H3D-39, I've seen very nice files out of it, really nice skin tones. Your H probably needed service, but oh yeah, they aren't servicing them anymore.
I like the M9 files better than the D800, but its just taste. They feel less digital to me.
Yep, I did very extensive tests, Hasselblads skin tones are just kind of red. Also, as a camera I just didn't get on with it, actually, I've never hated a camera more. I owned it for about 2 weeks, sold it, lost 2 thousand dollars on it when I sold it and I was still super happy because I didn't own it anymore. Bought a Nikon D600 and was shocked at how good the files are. Couple that together with an massively better shooting experience and you can see why Hasselblad are struggling.
N.B. I have always previously shot Medium format phase backs and Leica M9's which used to be superior until this latest generation of Nikons came out.
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I kinow its off topic and someone will get mad, but: did you look at the D600 versus the D800? The D800, while a beautiful file, is choking my workflow. I wonder if teh D600 is like a scaled down D800 in terms of IQ. I've looked all over and haven't seen anything convincing one way or another.
And to keep it MF and Hasselblad: The old V lenses are incredible on the D800 if your stylle allows for slow shooting. I usually use the 150 and 80 for portraits, but I slapped on a 50mm c and loved it. Smooth and sharp at teh same time, not aggresive like a modern lens.
As to the H3D-39, I've seen very nice files out of it, really nice skin tones. Your H probably needed service, but oh yeah, they aren't servicing them anymore.
I like the M9 files better than the D800, but its just taste. They feel less digital to me.
I have heard the D800 files are a little digitally over sharpened as a default. Maybe that is making them look digital? I didn't test the D800. I really didn't want more resolution than the D600 because of workflow issues and shooting ease and speed.
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to H3d39- I use this back as a back up and it is a great back. It works at longer exposures better than my leaf aptus 12 and the all over quality of the files is like 5x7 inch film. OK, phase 45 can much longer exposures but I never need more. Anyway is the same chip as phase one 45 and the H3d Body has great AF. One thing: the finder makes allways problems- the contact were changed but something wrong with the software...The red cast problem of the H3D can be solved for about 700 euro, after the service the back give great and natural skin color.
The H - backs have problems when used on tech cam with copal shutters- my back can only be used till1/15 sek, at 1/60 the image quality is horrible- only kapture one cable could resolve this synchronisation problem, cost 300 USD, but when used in field with centerfilter I neved need faster times.
If backs like H3d39 becomes so cheap it will be an option to buy one as a back up, even when it can not be repaired.
I would agree that the digital technology is nothing for a longer time period: cameras like Linhof Technika works great even after 50 years, all parts can be changed to new. All mechanical parts can be repaired, thats no problem, but how to repair a electronic part?
Even the digital leica can be serviced as long leica get the parts from china, were all electronic parts are made.
It would be interesting when there would exist a company like in the car industry that made parts for cameras- not only mechanical parts like lens boards, adapters, filters ..- but electronic like mainboards ect...
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I understand not everything can be maintained and repaired for ever.... but, in the case on MF backs, there is a marketing strategy involved and Hasselblad seems to forget about it. Very few of us start in the MF world buying a DF+ and a IQ180 (or any brand equivalent).... most of us start with a second hand something and then.... if we can afford it and like it, we will consider changing cameras, backs or both. Who would take the risk of spending US$5000 or more in something that may be not repaired if it fails???? not many people. This means that manufacturer loses this "affordable learning school" of future new material buyers and also loses the possibility to see people upgrading material if they do not succeed reselling their camera / back for enough money.... I am sure a healthy and "future secure investment" second hand market makes Hasselblad (and Leica in this price and product philosophy) sell a lot more new material than if old gear meant possibly dead gear.
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I understand not everything can be maintained and repaired for ever.... but, in the case on MF backs, there is a marketing strategy involved and Hasselblad seems to forget about it. Very few of us start in the MF world buying a DF+ and a IQ180 (or any brand equivalent).... most of us start with a second hand something and then.... if we can afford it and like it, we will consider changing cameras, backs or both. Who would take the risk of spending US$5000 or more in something that may be not repaired if it fails???? not many people. This means that manufacturer loses this "affordable learning school" of future new material buyers and also loses the possibility to see people upgrading material if they do not succeed reselling their camera / back for enough money.... I am sure a healthy and "future secure investment" second hand market makes Hasselblad (and Leica in this price and product philosophy) sell a lot more new material than if old gear meant possibly dead gear.
Aren't you trying to apply the film camera ethic in a digital world?
Film cameras would work for decades if you treated them right; they were always valid for the work and it was film itself that improved or not. Without film, it's all in the gift of camera and sensor manufacturers, and they change (improve...) all the time. It's become the hardware, in essence, that's the new problem that keeps getting solved, over and over again.
And high numbers are a very seductive selling aid.
DMF cameras are really out of and over the old MF camera demographics price barriers. To buy new and good today, you have got to be pretty comfortably off, have a very good business or be quite crazy; crazy helps. It often does.
Rob C
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I do own a H3D39 with seven lenses and I don´t think this is good news.
I bought the body with the 80mm second hand for 18.000,- EUR by the end of 2007. I like the camera for its image quality. Few problems with skin tones.
I must say I am really shocked. You just don´t expect to hear something like this. Makes me loose a lot of confidence in the company.
Bernd
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Well Rob, I think that you are only partly right seeing that there are some Nikon D70 still running perfectly... so electronic goods don't always die that fast
I think that when prices are that high, maintaining camera parts available for many years should be part of a strategy. If my 5D MKII stops working tomorrow and cannot be fixed, I'll buy another US$2000+ slr..... but if a US$15.000 digital back stops working, even if I want, I may not be able to pay for it when needed and will just step of the MF wagon.... MF manufacturer will have lots a client probably for ever.
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It is not as doom and gloom as people think. I just sent my Hasselblad H3D-39 in to Hassleblad/Bron in New Jersey and they just replaced the IR filter. Seems like 3rd party support is still strong.
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It is not as doom and gloom as people think. I just sent my Hasselblad H3D-39 in to Hassleblad/Bron in New Jersey and they just replaced the IR filter. Seems like 3rd party support is still strong.
Note this is clearly stated in the repair & service discontinuation notice (http://hasselbladbron.com/index.php?option=com_easyblog&view=entry&id=59&Itemid=128):
H2D-22, H2D-39, H3D-22, H3D-39
- Service is available for analogue repair of the H body.
- Service is limited to IR Filter and Linkboard replacements.
- HBI will provide limited technical support
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Note this is clearly stated in the repair & service discontinuation notice (http://hasselbladbron.com/index.php?option=com_easyblog&view=entry&id=59&Itemid=128):
Lol sorry I missed that.
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That statement may be true for the USA but it could be different for other countries. The fact that Hasselblad have closed some of their support centres does not mean that authorised servicing has ceased, it may be supported by independents.
Classic V has provided authorised service for the V system since closure of the UK service department in November 2012 in the UK and I have put in a request for my authorised status to extend to the H cameras. In other countries this has already happened, www.B23.dk in Denmark for example.
Check the status in your own country on the relevant Hasselblad website.
Last week B23 cleaned my 528C back and replaced the IR filter. Great job, quick turn around (NL-DK-NL within two weeks, including shipping) and very reasonable price.
Just to let you know that service is no problem for using of these great older backs.