Luminous Landscape Forum

Equipment & Techniques => Compact System Cameras => Topic started by: Guillermo Luijk on August 01, 2013, 11:25:52 AM

Title: New Panasonic GX7
Post by: Guillermo Luijk on August 01, 2013, 11:25:52 AM

New 16Mpx sensor, 2,7Mpx tiltable EVF, body stabilisation, 1/8000, focus peaking, and beautiful...

(http://i1266.photobucket.com/albums/jj524/picrumors/picrumors042/005_zps47eed163.jpg)
Title: Re: New Panasonic GX7
Post by: Vladimirovich on August 01, 2013, 11:54:10 AM
abomination... hopefully GH5 will not have any IBIS (as it is intended to be also a camera for videographers).
Title: Re: New Panasonic GX7
Post by: BJL on August 01, 2013, 12:27:58 PM
It looks like a wonderful choice -- if the new Panasonic sensor performs well enough, this could lure me away from the E-M5, or at least entice me to add it to my kit, for those times when I would like to have two lenses ready for immediate use.

Vladimirovich: I would not worry about Panasonic _adding_ the _option_ of IBIS, which it clearly intends to increase the utility of non-OIS lenses (Olympus MFT, adaptor-mounted ones, and some from Panasonic itself), not to replace OIS.

P. S> The best preview I have seen so far is at Imaging Resource: http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/panasonic-gx7/panasonic-gx7A.HTM One new feature that I have been asking for is the "pinpoint focusing mode", where the magnified view for manual focus occupies just part of the preview display, with the framing still visible around it.
Title: Re: New Panasonic GX7
Post by: Remo Nonaz on August 01, 2013, 01:30:06 PM
It looks to me like Panasonic has leap-frogged their own top-of-the-line camera, the GH3, in many ways. The GH3 is just becoming available in the US. Are they going to go to some newer version of the GH before the GH3 even gets off the ground and incorporate some of these features?
Title: Re: New Panasonic GX7
Post by: Vladimirovich on August 01, 2013, 01:58:40 PM
Vladimirovich: I would not worry about Panasonic _adding_ the _option_ of IBIS, which it clearly intends to increase the utility of non-OIS lenses (Olympus MFT, adaptor-mounted ones, and some from Panasonic itself), not to replace OIS.

thank you, but I prefer to avoid a shutter induced shock for a suspended sensor (@ certain shutter speeds), which IBIS simply can't handle as it is designed to counteract hands tremor...
Title: Re: New Panasonic GX7
Post by: Vladimirovich on August 01, 2013, 02:02:58 PM
The GH3 is just becoming available in the US.

I purchased my GH3 w/o any issues from Adorama in Nov 2012... we are living in different US's apparently.

Quote
Subject: Your Adorama order (11622452) is on its way.
From: Adorama Customer Service (Adorama@e.adorama.com)
To: ... ;
Date: Wednesday, November 28, 2012 6:03 PM

So it is already a ~1 year old camera (will be 1 year by the time GX7 actually ships)
Title: Re: New Panasonic GX7
Post by: fike on August 01, 2013, 02:49:28 PM
this looks compelling. Some reviewers have commented that this is ideal for right-eyed people with big noses....keeps nose prints off the screen.  

I like the 10 second timer 3-shot mode. Looks great for bracketing. My E-M5 lacks this and it drives me nuts.

I like all the programmable buttons--all four of them.

I like the two wheels (dials, whatever).

built-in flashes suck, but they are useful to have in a pinch, so I like its inclusion.

Contoured grip looks good.  Appearance is attractive. It has a nice Leica 'L' too.  Yay! ;-)

I like the custom modes on the mode dial.  My E-M5 hides the custom settings in the most bizarrely arcane way.

The sample shots I saw looked promising, but only time will tell on IQ.  Unfortunately Panasonic hasn't really been a leader in sensors, so low-light and dynamic range may be the Achilles heal of a camera with excellent handling.  

Title: Re: New Panasonic GX7
Post by: Dale_Cotton2 on August 01, 2013, 07:41:25 PM
Fike wrote:
> The sample shots I saw looked promising, but only time will tell on IQ.  Unfortunately Panasonic hasn't really been a leader in sensors, so low-light and dynamic range may be the Achilles heal of a camera with excellent handling. 

Totally share your concern. Here's what we know about the new sensor from the Panasonic press release:

"Panasonic developed a new 16.00-megapixel Digital Live MOS Sensor for LUMIX GX7 that achieves both high resolution and high sensitivity image recording with minimum noise by utilizing cutting-edge Semiconductor Fine Technology to improve color saturation by approx. 10% and a redesigned on-chip lens that enhances light condensation to achieve approx. 10% higher sensitivity. Noise generation is minimized in both pixel circuit and digital signal readout circuit for better S/N ratio by approx. 25% and detail reproduction by approx.10% compared to the LUMIX DMC-GX1, making it possible to capture clear images even in low lit situations.  The image processor Venus Engine features advanced noise reduction systems, including Multi-process NR (Noise Reduction) and Detail Reproduction Filter Process, which enhances the limit resolution. The combination of the digital Live MOS Sensor and the Venus Engine achieves max. ISO 25,600."

Background to this: last time I paid any attention to Panasonic, sensor noise was still their Achille's heel, including a long tradition of really awful shadow-area banding. If we look at the DxO numbers on the GX1, which they're using as a point of comparison:

http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/Cameras/Compare-Camera-Sensors/Compare-cameras-side-by-side/%28appareil1%29/842|0/%28brand%29/Panasonic/%28appareil2%29/816|0/%28brand2%29/Panasonic/%28appareil3%29/754|0/%28brand3%29/Panasonic#toggleBookmarks (http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/Cameras/Compare-Camera-Sensors/Compare-cameras-side-by-side/%28appareil1%29/842|0/%28brand%29/Panasonic/%28appareil2%29/816|0/%28brand2%29/Panasonic/%28appareil3%29/754|0/%28brand3%29/Panasonic#toggleBookmarks)

We see that the GX1's DR and low-light are behind what other manufacturers are now doing. The GH3 has more reasonable numbers, but apparently that's because it's the only Panasonic micro-4/3 to use a non-Panasonic sensor (Sony). And the press release tells us the GX7 will be using a Panasonic sensor, not a third-party one. (I threw the GF6 into the comparison because it's the latest Panasonic reviewed by DxO with one of their own sensors.)

So -- question for those of you with the relevant technical competencies:

If we take their 10% this and 25% that and apply it to the GX1 scores, what theoretical improvement in scores would that result in? Given that a one-stop increase is a 100% increase, I'd guess we're talking at most a half-stop improvement, such as from DR 10.6 to DR 11.

I'm spoiled by having used a D7000 for the past two years and would find it hard to take a significant step backward in SNR-related IQ parameters. It seems there's roughly a one-stop hit just by dropping down from APS-C to 4/3 in sensor size, so any further IQ hit really hurts. But any camera that combines a smaller body size with an actual adult control interface plus a well-reputed lens line-up plus IS plus a built-in EVF is such a rare thing. So please tell me I'm all wet on this IQ thing. ;)
Title: Re: New Panasonic GX7
Post by: Paulo Bizarro on August 02, 2013, 02:09:43 AM
This looks like a great little camera, a very good addition to this segment, and a straight shot at the EP5. One of the things I already like about it is that the price of the Fuji XE-1 decreased to the point that I bought one yesterday, the kit with the 18-55 lens. And they even included a free fuji leather half-case, nice.

Now, of course I not sure if Fuji reduced the prices due to the coming into the market of this camera, or even the EP5, but competition is good.
Title: Re: New Panasonic GX7
Post by: Vladimirovich on August 02, 2013, 10:06:35 AM
It seems there's roughly a one-stop hit just by dropping down from APS-C to 4/3 in sensor size

it is less than 1 stop, even for 1.5x crop it is not 2 times bigger area, but just 1.7x times bigger...
Title: New Panasonic GX7: 1/2 to 2/3 stop sensor size effect compared to EF-S, DX, etc.
Post by: BJL on August 02, 2013, 12:05:01 PM
I'm spoiled by having used a D7000 for the past two years and would find it hard to take a significant step backward in SNR-related IQ parameters. It seems there's roughly a one-stop hit just by dropping down from APS-C to 4/3 in sensor size ...
Going by sensor area, and ignoring the likelihood that a smaller sensor with smaller pixels has somewhat less dark/read noise (measured in electrons), Four Thirds format should be about 2/3 stop slower that Nikon/Sony "DX" format and 1/2 stop slower than Canon's EF-S format. Of course, anytime lens or aperture choice is limited by weight or size or the desire for adequate DOF, the smaller format can end up using a lower f-stop, and thus a lower ISO speed to get the same shutter speed, reducing or eliminating the noise disadvantage when equal shutter speed is needed. The full noise/DR advantage is still present for the larger sensors when they can be used at base ISO speed.
Title: Re: New Panasonic GX7
Post by: Telecaster on August 02, 2013, 03:03:43 PM
I tend to ignore lab numbers when it comes to judging image quality. I just look at photos, processed by me through my workflow and viewed via my prefered media (prints, calibrated display, iPad). If, for example, I can't see objectionable chroma noise at my max print size then AFAIC it doesn't exist. Of course this means that to properly judge IQ I have to use the camera, which takes time and $$. I've bought quite a bit of gear over the years that still sees serious use...just not by me.   ;)

I like the look of the GX7 and I like the specs. Hopefully I'll still like it after evaluation.

-Dave-
Title: Re: New Panasonic GX7
Post by: fike on August 02, 2013, 03:39:49 PM
I tend to ignore lab numbers when it comes to judging image quality. I just look at photos, processed by me through my workflow and viewed via my prefered media (prints, calibrated display, iPad). If, for example, I can't see objectionable chroma noise at my max print size then AFAIC it doesn't exist. Of course this means that to properly judge IQ I have to use the camera, which takes time and $$. I've bought quite a bit of gear over the years that still sees serious use...just not by me.   ;)

I like the look of the GX7 and I like the specs. Hopefully I'll still like it after evaluation.

-Dave-

I agree that lab numbers aren't much good.  What I do like are repeatable lab photos. If I compare benchmark test images from a new camera to one I already have and find the new one to be comparable or better, then I consider upgrading or buying it if it meets my other needs. 

A good example of this is the E-M5 and the 7D, both cameras I use.  When I was considering the diminutive E-M5 I evaluated its independent test images against the same 7D benchmark images on review sites, and I found the differences to be trivial--maybe slightly in favor of the E-M5.  If you look at the performance numbers, it looks like the 7D is a piece of crap (which it isn't).  If you look at images, that difference is quite subtle.  I now happily use both cameras.

Title: Re: New Panasonic GX7
Post by: Vladimirovich on August 02, 2013, 04:40:26 PM
from Poland (use translate.google.com)

http://www.optyczne.pl/328.1-artyku%C5%82-Panasonic_Lumix_GX7_-_pierwsze_wra%C5%BCenia.html
Title: Re: Re: Re: New Panasonic GX7: 1/2 to 2/3 stop sensor size effect compared to EF-S, DX, etc.
Post by: Guillermo Luijk on August 04, 2013, 06:21:19 AM
The full noise/DR advantage is still present for the larger sensors when they can be used at base ISO speed.

Even in that case, if the same DOF is desired at the same shutter speed, the larger sensor will need to be stopped down to a higher f-number, again reducing or eliminating the noise advantage through higher photon collection.

When there is a shutter speed constraint, the real noise advantage of large sensors only comes when there are no min. DOF constraints at all, and viceversa.

For me the choice of a large sensor vs a smaller one is justified in any of these situations:
- Shallow DOF is a priority
- No shutter speed constraints (e.g. tripod applications)
- No min. DOF constraints (e.g. low light applications at high ISO and max. lens aperture)
- 35mm lenses must be used (for any reason: you already have them, you need a specific lens with no equivalent in smaller systems,...)
Title: Re: Re: Re: New Panasonic GX7: 1/2 to 2/3 stop sensor size effect compared to EF-S, DX, etc.
Post by: Vladimirovich on August 04, 2013, 11:43:06 AM
Even in that case, if the same DOF is desired at the same shutter speed
and more often it is not actually, but an artificial argument of small sensor camera owners (who always insist that only their DOF is the right one for a shot)...

Title: Base ISO speed and equal DOF requires a longer exposure time in a larger format
Post by: BJL on August 04, 2013, 01:04:10 PM
Even in that case, if the same DOF is desired at the same shutter speed, the larger sensor will need to be stopped down to a higher f-number ...
Agreed: I was referring to situations where it is acceptable to use the longer exposure time needed to get the same DOF at base ISO speed in the larger format, so making the need for a tripod, or good light, or artifical light more common in a larger format when wanting to use base ISO speed.

The irony is that this was well understood with film cameras, where as format size increased from 36x24mm to medium format to large format, the overall trend was towards greater usage of tripods and/or artifical lighting in order tp keep using the best, low ISO speed films. With digital, this trade-off for realizing the increased IQ potential of a larger format is often overlooked.
Title: Re: Re: Re: New Panasonic GX7: 1/2 to 2/3 stop sensor size effect compared to EF-S, DX, etc.
Post by: BJL on August 04, 2013, 01:12:28 PM
... small sensor camera owners (who always insist that only their DOF is the right one for a shot)...
What insulting nonsense: Guillermo just listed "shallow DOF is a priority" and "no min. DOF constraints" as amongst the situations where larger formats have an advantage, and at a guess, most or all small sensor camera owners in this forum agree. Please abstain from counter-factual straw-man stereotypes of people you disagree with, or whose camera choices differ from yours, and try instead to read and understand what they are actually saying before you reply.
Title: Re: Re: Re: New Panasonic GX7: 1/2 to 2/3 stop sensor size effect compared to EF-S, DX, etc.
Post by: Vladimirovich on August 04, 2013, 01:55:59 PM
What insulting nonsense: Guillermo just listed "shallow DOF is a priority" and "no min. DOF constraints" as amongst the situations where larger formats have an advantage, and at a guess, most or all small sensor camera owners in this forum agree. Please abstain from counter-factual straw-man stereotypes of people you disagree with, or whose camera choices differ from yours, and try instead to read and understand what they are actually saying before you reply.
may be you need to take your regular medicine (whatever it is) first and reread my post... in most cases (not for a lab test where you intend to have the same DOF by design) owners of smaller format cameras insist on having the same DOF whereas in most cases it is not necessary and just suits them (or they just do not have an alternative of having it less)... for the record at this moment my camera is m43 one.
Title: Re: New Panasonic GX7
Post by: fike on August 04, 2013, 01:58:57 PM
NOOOOOOOOO........NOOOOOOTTTT the depth of field equivalence debate again. I gouge my eyes out!!! [sticking fingers in ears.] nananannanananananannanana. I can't year you people.  The GX7 looks like a lovely little camera doesn't it?
Title: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: New Panasonic GX7: 1/2 to 2/3 stop sensor size effect compared to EF-S, DX, etc.
Post by: Guillermo Luijk on August 04, 2013, 05:16:47 PM
and more often it is not actually, but an artificial argument of small sensor camera owners (who always insist that only their DOF is the right one for a shot)...

I own FF, APS and M4/3 cameras, and was just describing reality.
Title: Re: New Panasonic GX7
Post by: Telecaster on August 04, 2013, 05:26:22 PM
NOOOOOOOOO........NOOOOOOTTTT the depth of field equivalence debate again. I gouge my eyes out!!! [sticking fingers in ears.] nananannanananananannanana. I can't year you people.  The GX7 looks like a lovely little camera doesn't it?

 ;D   ;)

Placed my order this morning. We shall see...and shall have much fun in the seeing!

-Dave-
Title: Re: Re: Re: New Panasonic GX7: 1/2 to 2/3 stop sensor size effect compared to EF-S, DX, etc.
Post by: BJL on August 04, 2013, 08:49:04 PM
may be you need to take your regular medicine (whatever it is) first and reread my post
I read your post, and quoted these words of yours, underlining added this time:
"... small sensor camera owners (who always insist that only their DOF is the right one for a shot)... ".
Unless you have proof that owners of small sensor cameras "always" make this claim, you are talking nonsense.
Title: Re: New Panasonic GX7
Post by: RFPhotography on August 06, 2013, 11:28:58 PM
thank you, but I prefer to avoid a shutter induced shock for a suspended sensor (@ certain shutter speeds), which IBIS simply can't handle as it is designed to counteract hands tremor...

You don't have to use the in-body stabilisation.  If an OIS lens is mounted, it takes precedence and the sensor becomes locked.
Title: Re: New Panasonic GX7
Post by: RFPhotography on August 06, 2013, 11:30:34 PM
abomination... hopefully GH5 will not have any IBIS (as it is intended to be also a camera for videographers).


The in-body stabilisation in the GX7 isn't enabled for video capture.
Title: Re: New Panasonic GX7
Post by: Vladimirovich on August 07, 2013, 01:11:12 PM

The in-body stabilisation in the GX7 isn't enabled for video capture.

I (others are fully entitled to their own, different, wishes) do not want to have the sensor which is not one solid mass with the camera and the mere fact that it is "disabled" does not mean that it is in fact fixed to a frame, we do not know how it is implemented and "disabled" might simply mean that IBIS is still keep it floating and just passively counteracting shifts of sensor from the "center" position instead of keep it floating with active shifts away from a "center" position to counteract hands tremor or other low freq movements of a camera's body...  and I am talking about stills, not video... I do prefer no IBIS for stills, as you might prefer a top level Gizro (or similar) carbon tripod (or a big wooden one) vs a $50 aluminum one for obvious reasons
Title: Re: New Panasonic GX7
Post by: RFPhotography on August 07, 2013, 05:34:48 PM
According to what I've read, the sensor becomes locked in place and doesn't move.
Title: Re: New Panasonic GX7
Post by: Vladimirovich on August 07, 2013, 06:18:20 PM
According to what I've read, the sensor becomes locked in place and doesn't move.
with all due respect you just read a word "locked", but not how exactly it is "locked" technically... a hint - get Olympus E-M5 (w/ that glorious 555-axis IBIS) switch it on w/ stabilization off and try to clean the dust from the sensor... you shall see how solid it is actually "locked"  ;)
Title: Re: New Panasonic GX7
Post by: RFPhotography on August 07, 2013, 07:31:33 PM
with all due respect you just read a word "locked", but not how exactly it is "locked" technically... a hint - get Olympus E-M5 (w/ that glorious 555-axis IBIS) switch it on w/ stabilization off and try to clean the dust from the sensor... you shall see how solid it is actually "locked"  ;)

OK, you're going to piss and moan no matter what.  You, also, don't know what is being done in the camera.  You're making assumptions in order to justify your preconception.  Your mind is made up.  So be it.
Title: Re: New Panasonic GX7
Post by: donbga on September 06, 2013, 11:57:25 PM
with all due respect you just read a word "locked", but not how exactly it is "locked" technically... a hint - get Olympus E-M5 (w/ that glorious 555-axis IBIS) switch it on w/ stabilization off and try to clean the dust from the sensor... you shall see how solid it is actually "locked"  ;)

I've looked at the output from the new GX7 in JPG format and the results were excellent (though I normally shoot RAW.) The camera handles and plays well in my palms. The new EVF is pretty impressive; having it integrated into the body puts the camera in a new class of Lumix rangefinder style cams. Video is excellent as you would expect from Panasonic (I'm not really interested in video either.) The camera is larger than the GX1 and G6 but not by much.

Since the camera hasn't officially been released in the wild how can anyone judge the stabilization features first hand? However the two Lumix Luminaries doing the public presentation acknowledged that in their opinion the IBIS of the GX7 isn't as robust as the OMD but is still very capable at any rate.

I'm predicting the GX7 is going to be a big hit.

Comments provided by a Lumix/Olympus fanboi.

Don Bryant


 
Title: Re: New Panasonic GX7
Post by: scooby70 on September 09, 2013, 10:54:50 AM
So, if the sensor isn't locked in place is it possible to manually clean the sensor?

If you can't I wouldn't ever consider buying a camera like this as sooner or later it'll need a clean.
Title: Re: New Panasonic GX7
Post by: AFairley on September 09, 2013, 12:22:11 PM
I believe they all have sensor cleaning modes.
Title: Re: New Panasonic GX7
Post by: scooby70 on September 09, 2013, 04:57:45 PM
I believe they all have sensor cleaning modes.

They do and they're good and the sensors do seem to be very resistant to dust bunnies but I've certainly had to wet clean my G1's sensor when the cleaning cycle wouldn't budge the contamination and neither would a rocket blower.

I have been waiting for a small form body with IS but if manual cleaning isn't possible there's no way I'd buy one of these cameras. This is something I'm going to have to look into.
Title: Re: New Panasonic GX7
Post by: stever on September 10, 2013, 11:26:54 PM
this is an issue that hasn't received all that much discussion
 - are the warnings overblown (as were the warnings from most digital camera manufacturers initially)?
 - are most users of these cameras not paying any attention to spots?
 - have production methods improved so much that production oil/film on the sensor is no longer a problem?
 - has ultrasonic sensor cleaning reached a new level

ultrasonic cleaning of my 5D3 is extremely effective, but it still occasionally requires manual cleaning even though the mirror is in front of the sensor during lens change.  I remain skeptical of any camera that does not have a user - cleanable sensor and would like to hear a lot more discussion from Olympus users before buying a camera with sensor stabilization - as attractive the prospect may be of sensor stabilization with fast primes.
Title: Re: New Panasonic GX7
Post by: scooby70 on September 11, 2013, 08:38:21 AM
My 5D requires manual wet cleaning quite often. My Panasonic G1 gets a lot more use and I change lenses a lot and yet it hardly ever suffers dust bunnies. I assume that this is for a number of reasons, I'm guessing here...

- Better "non stick" coating on the sensor?
- No oil lubricated moving mirror flapping about inside and shedding bits?
- Effective ultrasonic/whatever it is self clean system?
- A combination of all these things and nore.

In the several years I've had the G1 it's only needed a wet clean perhaps two or at the most three times but the key here is that it has required wet cleaning, I assume when something sticky has got into the camera and on to the sensor.

I'm not a fan of sending cameras away to be cleaned, I once sent a 20D to Canon and it came back in a worse state and then there's the cost and the time the camera is away.

I'd love a camera with IBIS but I think I need the reassurance from owners that it's possible to clean the sensor, even if it only needs it once a year.
Title: Re: Re: Re: New Panasonic GX7
Post by: Guillermo Luijk on September 11, 2013, 01:07:28 PM
My 5D requires manual wet cleaning quite often. My Panasonic G1 gets a lot more use and I change lenses a lot and yet it hardly ever suffers dust bunnies. I assume that this is for a number of reasons, I'm guessing here...

- Better "non stick" coating on the sensor?
- No oil lubricated moving mirror flapping about inside and shedding bits?
- Effective ultrasonic/whatever it is self clean system?
- A combination of all these things and nore.

Add to your list: 5D sensor's surface 4 times G1. Statistically that means four times the chances of dust falling on the sensor.
Title: Re: New Panasonic GX7
Post by: Telecaster on September 11, 2013, 01:18:35 PM
In six months of ownership I've cleaned my E-M5's sensor twice with Eclipse fluid. No problem doing so and no issues afterward. Both cleanings followed my loaning the camera to friends with no prior mirrorless ILC experience. They've since been educated re m43 sensor ettiquette.   :o

I've noticed that the camera's sensor vibration technique does a real good job of eventually getting rid of debris. Sometimes a dust mote doesn't come off immediately...but after a few vib cycles it usually lets go. And I realize as I'm typing this that over the past two months or so I haven't noticed any new dust spots at all.

-Dave-
Title: Sensor cleaning
Post by: OldRoy on September 11, 2013, 01:42:51 PM
I have an E M5. About 6 months ago I noticed serious sensor pollution well within the warranty period. I investigated the options. Inevitably, asking for other people's experience on internet forums produced a blizzard of contradictory responses (what did I expect?) But at least one user online reported that he'd successfully wet cleaned the sensor himself, IBIS notwithstanding.

The Olympus dealers who supplied the camera offered to clean it for me as a chargeable service although they came up with at least 3 different sets of prices and turnarounds. Olympus indicated that it was a return to factory requirement and not dealer serviceable: I suggested they notify dealers of this fact. Jeeze!  I returned it to Olympus who sent it to their Portuguese centre.

It came back two weeks later, as promised. A few hours later I took it out and shot some casual snaps. The camera began behaving extremely unstably within a couple of dozen actuations - freezing up in a variety of different ways as well as various other weird manifestations. I tried a range of tests including using different lenses and warm-up periods as well as playing around with operating modes however I could detect no obvious correlations. I called Olympus and, of course, was asked to return it. Each courier visit eats up at least half a day.

When I got it back it began behaving oddly almost immediately although not quite as severely as previously. However I noticed that the sensor was covered in dead pixels which could even be seen via the EVF! I called Olympus and was asked to return it again. Cue impotent fury.

Eventually after clawing my way up Olympus' European food chain I managed to get the camera swapped (as I'd repeatedly requested) for a new replacement - after all I'd sent in a perfectly serviceable camera which they had broken and failed to rectify. To Olympus' credit they gave me an extended new warranty by way of compensation. Two months of headache. At least my D700 got some exercise.

Sometimes even taking the safe option doesn't necessarily work out as planned.

Roy
Title: Re: New Panasonic GX7
Post by: budjames on September 14, 2013, 07:12:04 AM
The initial post shows an all black model. BH Photo and Adorama show a silver/black body only available for preorders.

Does any one know when the all black body will be available in the US?

Also, what is the highest quality zoom to get?

Thanks.

Bud
Title: Re: New Panasonic GX7
Post by: SZRitter on September 14, 2013, 08:17:55 AM
Currently available, the Panasonic 12-35 f2.8 and 35-100 f2.8. I believe that the Olympus 12-40 f2.8 will be out in November. All of these are a little on the larger side for m43, but extremely competent glass.
Title: Re: Re: New Panasonic GX7
Post by: Guillermo Luijk on September 14, 2013, 02:09:53 PM
The zuiko 40-150 f/2.8 for MFT coming soon:

(http://www.photographyblog.com/images/uploads_ee2/news_gallery_images/2013/olympus_40_150mm_hands_on_04.jpg)
Title: Re: New Panasonic GX7
Post by: stever on September 14, 2013, 06:57:25 PM
for now, at least it appears that the black GX 7 is not coming to the US - unfortunately
Title: Re: Re: New Panasonic GX7
Post by: BJL on September 14, 2013, 07:04:24 PM
The zuiko 40-150 f/2.8 for MFT coming soon:

(http://www.photographyblog.com/images/uploads_ee2/news_gallery_images/2013/olympus_40_150mm_hands_on_04.jpg)
Unfortunately, the latest word from Olympus on the 40-150/2.8 is "by the end of 2014. This one place where getting decent PDAF on the main sensor will be a step forward, given all the nice Four Thirds SLR lenses that become more usable options.
Title: Re: New Panasonic GX7
Post by: bluekorn on September 18, 2013, 04:01:49 PM
I discovered the black GX7 to soon be available at Henry's in Toronto and placed my order for the kit with the 20mm. They also have body only and a kit with the 14-42.
Title: Re: New Panasonic GX7
Post by: fike on September 18, 2013, 04:20:21 PM
The four thirds 50-200 looks very interesting in the context of the new E-M1. 

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/527566-REG/Olympus_261015_50_200mm_f_2_8_3_5_ED_SWD.html

It will be interesting to see how these old Four Thirds lenses work on the E-M1.  Then, of course, there is the 300 f/2.8 at $8K or so.  I can't quite get my head wrapped around spending that on the Olympus system. Is it possible that I still don't trust the longevity of the MFT family?  I already have a heck of a lot of money balled up in MFT gear.
Title: Re: New Panasonic GX7
Post by: Telecaster on September 18, 2013, 04:57:37 PM
The four thirds 50-200 looks very interesting in the context of the new E-M1.

The 50-200mm is a helluva nice lens. Even when used with the four-thirds 1.4x TC it wipes the floor resolution- and clarity-wise with the Panasonic 45-200mm, particularly at the long end. Granted, not really a fair comparison...and the Panasonic is smaller & much lighter. But still I'm impressed. The TC takes you to 280mm (my E-M5 reports 283mm...okay), which gives me all the reach I need.

-Dave-
Title: Re: New Panasonic GX7
Post by: scooby70 on September 18, 2013, 08:07:50 PM
The four thirds 50-200 looks very interesting in the context of the new E-M1. 

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/527566-REG/Olympus_261015_50_200mm_f_2_8_3_5_ED_SWD.html

It will be interesting to see how these old Four Thirds lenses work on the E-M1.  Then, of course, there is the 300 f/2.8 at $8K or so.  I can't quite get my head wrapped around spending that on the Olympus system. Is it possible that I still don't trust the longevity of the MFT family?  I already have a heck of a lot of money balled up in MFT gear.

I avoid this by only having two AF lenses, 20mm f1.7 and 14-42mm, and 99% of my shots are taken with old Rokkor primes which will fit any of the new CSC's via a cheap adapter.
Title: Re: New Panasonic GX7
Post by: leuallen on September 18, 2013, 09:49:20 PM
Quote
The four thirds 50-200 looks very interesting in the context of the new E-M1

So damn interesting I ordered one, the adapter, a E-M1 and a GX7. I have been waiting for a sharp long lens and hope this is it. Got it and it a little bigger than I am used to so I will have to grow into it. I may try the 1.7 extender cause I like to go long.

I tried it on the E-M5. Focus is slow and slower as expected. I was shooting car dirt track races and got good results if I prefocused on a spot in the corner and banged them when they got there.

Larry
Title: Re: New Panasonic GX7
Post by: Stephen Davies on September 28, 2013, 07:41:21 AM
I just ordered the black GX7 w/20 from Henry's. Now that the horse has left the barn, does anyone know if there are any potential issues with compatibility or warranty? (I'm in the U.S.).
My experience with M43 has been the G2, the GX1, the GH2 and the EM-5.
The most "comfortable" cameras, as far as holding them and convenience of controls and menus, are the G2 and the GH2.
I really like the solidity and quality construction of the EM-5 but I can't seem to get accustomed to the feel of the camera in my hands. It's just wrong somehow (for me). And the menus make me crazy. However, I love the customization options and the IBIS. And it looks cool (not that that is important . . .)
I was hoping the EM-1 would address some of the issues but the price is just excessive to me.
I liked the size of the GX1 but realized I just can't do without an LVF.
So, I hope the GX7 will be "the camera" and I can sell the others and quit looking.
I'm disappointed about no mike (sp?) and I wish the IBIS worked with video, but video is secondary for me so I guess I can live with that.
Sometimes I get the feeling the camera companies leave features like that lacking just so they can include them in a later model and keep us on the upgrade path.
But that's probably just my cynicism kicking in.
Anyway, the real purpose of my post was to find out about any possible problems with ordering from a Canadian store - if anyone has any insight into that, I'd appreciate it.
Thanks and Aloha.
Title: Re: New Panasonic GX7
Post by: Mjollnir on October 01, 2013, 01:43:07 PM
The photo at the top of this thread bespeaks quite a nice DR.

http://www.mu-43.com/showthread.php?t=53131&page=5
Title: Re: Re: New Panasonic GX7
Post by: bcooter on October 02, 2013, 09:18:22 PM
The zuiko 40-150 f/2.8 for MFT coming soon:

(http://www.photographyblog.com/images/uploads_ee2/news_gallery_images/2013/olympus_40_150mm_hands_on_04.jpg)

This is the lens that would sell me the em1 camera.   I can't count the number of times shooting full frame with a 80 to 200 that I've needed 50mm more.

The only thing that would make it better is if it was a 2.0.

IMO

BC
Title: Re: Re: Re: Re: New Panasonic GX7
Post by: Guillermo Luijk on October 05, 2013, 04:59:16 AM
The only thing that would make it better is if it was a 2.0.
That for sure would make it more expensive, bulkier, heavier and a bit more luminous. Not necessarily better for all users.
Title: Re: New Panasonic GX7
Post by: jjj on October 05, 2013, 11:06:31 AM
The photo at the top of this thread (http://www.mu-43.com/showthread.php?t=53131&page=5) bespeaks quite a nice DR.


(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7340/9901824084_b24e203cc1_h.jpg)

Very impressive DR indeed.

Title: Re: New Panasonic GX7
Post by: tom b on November 14, 2013, 12:55:25 AM
Got my GX7 three weeks ago, here are some of my observations:

The build quality compared to my GH2 is flimsy, I had to buy a new backpack with dividers to feel comfortable about doing any extensive travel with it.

The battery life isn't very good and the battery is smaller than the GH2's, which annoyed me as I was hoping to use them as backups. It also adds another battery charger to the list.

The rotating viewfinder appears to be gimmicky but the view is fine and I love the horizon line in the middle (for some reason I tend to tilt the horizon down 1.5 to the right).

The LCD rotates rather oddly so if you are one of those who use it as a viewfinder I would check it out first. On the other hand the LCD images are in my view, much better than the GH2.

I haven't done any serious testing of its low light ability but indoor shots I shot in Sydney seemed to quite fine.

Oh, thanks to the poster who mentioned the second rotating wheel.

It's a cool little camera and it looks great with a 25mm or 45mm Leica lens on it.

Cheers,