Luminous Landscape Forum

Equipment & Techniques => Cameras, Lenses and Shooting gear => Topic started by: BernardLanguillier on June 11, 2013, 08:24:04 pm

Title: Hasseblad Lunar in stock!
Post by: BernardLanguillier on June 11, 2013, 08:24:04 pm
Hurry up, at 7,000 US$ it is a real bargain!

http://photorumors.com/2013/06/10/hasselblad-lunar-mirrorless-camera-now-shipping-in-the-us/

Really... what were they thinking.

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: Hasseblad Lunar in stock!
Post by: Gary Brown on June 11, 2013, 08:45:25 pm
Really... what were they thinking.

From Thom Hogan: Howling at the Moon (http://www.sansmirror.com/newsviews/howling-at-the-moon.html)
Title: Re: Hasseblad Lunar in stock!
Post by: design_freak on June 12, 2013, 04:14:36 am
Thinking  ???

It is insane   :o
They need a new CEO...
Title: Re: Hasseblad Lunar in stock!
Post by: BernardLanguillier on June 12, 2013, 05:12:32 am
Thinking  ???

It is insane   :o
They need a new CEO...

Trying to reach a wider audience in order to secure bottom up revenue is obviously a smart strategy... they just missed completely the part where the masses buy a product because it delivers a reasonable value... the guy must have been sick the day they covered that part in his MBA.

It is pretty puzzling that a move of such idiotic proportions passed through the various validation layers within Hasselblad. That is the part that paints the company in the worst light in fact.

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: Hasseblad Lunar in stock!
Post by: woof75 on June 12, 2013, 05:17:50 am
Fingers crossed every banker in town wants to own one which will support the development of something decent.
Title: Re: Hasseblad Lunar in stock!
Post by: BernardLanguillier on June 12, 2013, 05:26:53 am
Fingers crossed every banker in town wants to own one which will support the development of something decent.

Those guys are very far from being stupid. Why on earth would they buy a pale copy of a Sony NEX-7?

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: Hasseblad Lunar in stock!
Post by: hasselbladfan on June 12, 2013, 05:42:27 am
Fingers crossed every banker in town wants to own one which will support the development of something decent.

If they don't sell, it will take money away from Medium Format innovations !!

Write-off costs of a project like this, is money down the drain.
Title: Re: Hasseblad Lunar in stock!
Post by: design_freak on June 12, 2013, 06:20:02 am
That's right, there is no such suckers on earth. I guess no one ever did recognize. Please, here is the solution: http://www.gariz.com/front/php/category.php?cate_no=299
Cheap, even nicer  ;D

The worst part was that speech of CEO: the history of the brand, recourse to the roots, MFDB DNA. And it turned out to be a simple NEX-7  :'(
Total disgrace!!!
Title: Re: Hasseblad Lunar in stock!
Post by: design_freak on June 12, 2013, 06:32:58 am
Trying to reach a wider audience in order to secure bottom up revenue is obviously a smart strategy...

Exactly as I think.
There is a lot of scandinavian designers...
I don't know who is more insane, VC company or CEO.
Title: Re: Hasseblad Lunar in stock!
Post by: design_freak on June 12, 2013, 06:39:46 am
If they don't sell, it will take money away from Medium Format innovations !!

Write-off costs of a project like this, is money down the drain.

For sure. They will take money away!!!

I really do not know what's really going on. Maybe VC figured out that none of this business will  be and it was a good way to draw cash from the company. Now I think everyone is waiting for miracle...
Title: Re: Hasseblad Lunar in stock!
Post by: Rob C on June 12, 2013, 08:20:37 am
Those guys are very far from being stupid. Why on earth would they buy a pale copy of a Sony NEX-7?

Cheers,
Bernard


Heysoos, Bernard! Because it costs more, of course! Just like the rest of the output.

Rob C
Title: Re: Hasseblad Lunar in stock!
Post by: woof75 on June 12, 2013, 09:08:19 am
It could be perceived as being pretty.. I guess. A few well placed nice add's in the right magazine telling people it's a must have luxury item.
Title: Re: Hasseblad Lunar in stock!
Post by: hasselbladfan on June 12, 2013, 10:02:58 am
Those guys are very far from being stupid. Why on earth would they buy a pale copy of a Sony NEX-7?

I bought many times barely used M film cameras / lenses from bankers, who had returned them because they could not use them. Go to Kurland and you will still find many.

They are not stupid, but they like so much to show off, even after the crisis.
Title: Re: Hasseblad Lunar in stock!
Post by: OldRoy on June 12, 2013, 10:08:07 am
The first reaction I had, like most people outside Hasselblad, was that this is a spectacularly ill-judged product. Then I reflected for a moment on the immense profitability of corporations like LVMH which markets items whose utility is identical or even inferior to  competitors' products costing a tiny fraction of the price. And then there's Leica, whose latest offering defies comprehension and whose profitability is, it's said, is rock-solid.

Roy
Title: Re: Hasseblad Lunar in stock!
Post by: BernardLanguillier on June 12, 2013, 07:08:45 pm
The first reaction I had, like most people outside Hasselblad, was that this is a spectacularly ill-judged product. Then I reflected for a moment on the immense profitability of corporations like LVMH which markets items whose utility is identical or even inferior to  competitors' products costing a tiny fraction of the price. And then there's Leica, whose latest offering defies comprehension and whose profitability is, it's said, is rock-solid.

True, but the products LVMH sell are very carefully, scientifically I might say, tuned to the needs and expectations of the target customers. They only use the finest material and the whole distribution chain is, again, masterly managed.

I don't see anything of that with the Lunar. Is is simply rebadged.

Sure, some idiots will fall in the trap.

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: Hasseblad Lunar in stock!
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on June 12, 2013, 07:30:32 pm
... corporations like LVMH which markets items whose utility is identical or even inferior to  competitors' products costing a tiny fraction of the price...

Well, the utility might be the same, after all a purse is a purse and a watch is a watch, but the quality and look & feel ain't identical, let alone inferior.

What's more, LVMH is not taking, say a Timex watch, replacing the winding crown with a ridiculously looking contraption, and slapping, say, a Bulgari name on it.
Title: Re: Hasseblad Lunar in stock!
Post by: SeanBK on June 13, 2013, 10:33:27 am
Slobodan, Check this brand new watch by Ralph Lauren. It is just stamped over a possibly Timex, ... watch as there are just couple of co. actually make the watches. This watch is selling @ RL stores for $3,250.
  http://www.ralphlaurenwatches.com/en-us/watches/Pages/Sporting.aspx
Title: Re: Hasseblad Lunar in stock!
Post by: design_freak on June 13, 2013, 06:58:00 pm
Of course there are many bad examples of design  ;)
Title: Re: Hasseblad Lunar in stock!
Post by: design_freak on June 13, 2013, 07:14:50 pm
Sacrificed V system. Icon photographic equipment. Would not it be better if it was this model has become an exclusive. Very expensive and only on request. Bankers could continue to brag about, because it's a very nice item. Cash spent on the project "Lunar" peacefully by enough to achieve this effect.
Title: Re: Hasseblad Lunar in stock!
Post by: BernardLanguillier on June 13, 2013, 08:38:39 pm
Sacrificed V system. Icon photographic equipment. Would not it be better if it was this model has become an exclusive. Very expensive and only on request. Bankers could continue to brag about, because it's a very nice item. Cash spent on the project "Lunar" peacefully by enough to achieve this effect.

If you think about this from the angle of environmental impact and opportunity cost, this is in fact infuriating.

Think of how many solar panels could have been given away to African countries with the money wasted on the development of this born dead product?

...I think I have just had a TED like, ideas that change the world, kind of breakthough genius idea...

How about a worldwide board of project reviews that would review all the a-la-Hassy-Luna projects with high idiocy potential, forbid their production kick off before big capital expenditure is committed, cease the corresponding funds and allocate them to democratically elected eco projects?

Since the projects are born dead anyway, it wouldn't make any difference for the company about to fund a lost cause, we wouldn't clutter online store shelves with products never going to sell, and some good would be done to the world.

How about that?

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: Hasseblad Lunar in stock!
Post by: Eric Myrvaagnes on June 13, 2013, 11:41:28 pm
I'm holding out for the Titanium model with embedded Cubic Zirconium Googaws. I plan to buy it with the proceeds from my investments with Bernie Madoff.  ::)
Title: Re: Hasseblad Lunar in stock!
Post by: Scott O. on June 14, 2013, 12:44:40 am
Quite possibly the ugliest camera ever made...
Title: Re: Hasseblad Lunar in stock!
Post by: bcooter on June 14, 2013, 05:31:26 am
Quite possibly the ugliest camera ever made...

Everybody that doesn't like this camera isn't Hasselblad's market.

As T says, it's for people that speak Mandrian or I think  to sit on the dash of Karl Lagerfeld's grey Hummer.

Same the Leica Mini.   It's not meant for working photographers, or even serious amateurs, but it will sell, if only because it has an auto setting and autofoucs . . . and almost looks like a M.

Still, if you love Leicas or Blad's hope these cameras sell like crazy so we still have camera companies left.

Personally, what I'd love to see from all cameras, still and motion, small and large, pro and amateur is an actual shutter speed dial and an F stop ring on the lens.

It's like one of my cars that has a dangerous and redundant touch screen to do everything like change a radio station, or up the fan speed and requires you to take your eyes off the road 4 times to complete a function.

It's an answer to a question nobody asked.

As I mentioned I recently bought two GH3's and an Olympus omd.   They are marvelous little cameras (the pana more useful, the OMD a jewel)  and do so much it's fasciating. 

You can really build your own film within the camera and shoot directly to an Ipad for client review. 

They also have a very complete lens line.

The problem is they have menus that take at least a day to fully learn and weeks to become knowledgeable, though still never will be intuitive.

I can appreciate the ability to modify a camera to your liking, but honestly when your working fast and professionally, simple is much better.

IMO

BC

Title: Re: Hasseblad Lunar in stock!
Post by: TMARK on June 14, 2013, 07:34:34 am
Coot,

"Personally, what I'd love to see from all cameras, still and motion, small and large, pro and amateur is an actual shutter speed dial and an F stop ring on the lens."

Fuji does this well.
Title: Re: Hasseblad Lunar in stock!
Post by: michael on June 14, 2013, 08:08:46 am
Indeed.

If one wants the directness of both a shutter speed dial and an aperture ring in a contemporary camera than the X Fujis are hard to beat.

Michael
Title: Hasseblad Lunar in stock!
Post by: Jason DiMichele on June 14, 2013, 08:26:22 am
At least it's a better camera and potentially looks nicer (I don't think so but tastes vary) than the Sigma SD1. Remember that initial sticker price ridiculousness?

Cheers!
Title: Re: Hasseblad Lunar in stock!
Post by: bcooter on June 14, 2013, 10:57:38 am
Indeed.

If one wants the directness of both a shutter speed dial and an aperture ring in a contemporary camera than the X Fujis are hard to beat.

Michael


Agree on most points.   Had my money out for the X1 and then backed out.

Great camera, a little lightweight for it's size, but beautiful skin tones and files, excellent high iso.

Downside is the hybrid finder takes a while to get use to, the autofocus a little iffy, the video functions limited.

Still, would have bought it except for the lens mount.  I'm already carrying, Leica, mft's, Canon, Nikon, Contax, PL lens mount cameras.  One more seemed a little insane, not that I have anything against insanity.

I think the x1 pro needs one more complete generation to be there, but personally I would buy it before I'd buy the new Leica M.

One thing I've noticed by adapting (couldn't wait) my Leica lenses to my mft's bodies.  Truth be told, I don't find them prettier than the Panasonic lenses, sharper than the olympus mft lenses and see a lot of ca and some softness.

Now it all can be fixed in post, but the Leica lenses weren't a magic bullet.  I assume the Pana and Oly lenses were doing some in camera magic to fix some issues, where the Leica lenses were what they were.

The Olypus OMD is the sharpest camera lens combos I've ever used, except for my Contax, Zeiss Phase.   Almost identical in tone and look and the OLY lenses are gems, not as heavy or well built as leica lenses but damn close.

Do like the x1 pro though and nobody get me started to buy another camera system.

Not the next few months at least, been buried day and night and loath learning one more menu on any camera.  

Maybe forever.

Remind me I said that and maybe I'm more than a camera junkie that I thought, but the mft, especailly the omd is really the most exciting camera I've used in years.

The OMD without a winder seems small to me, but with a winder only 5% too small in physical size, but wow what a nice, nice camera.  I really love it and to me it works like a film camera.  Build a film type, then shoot with less thought about post production color and look.

I love it other than the layers of menus, (which is better and easier than the gh3, but then again learning how to fly the space shuttle has to be easier than mastering  the gh3 menu system).

Thx.

BC

Title: Re: Hasseblad Lunar in stock!
Post by: TMARK on June 14, 2013, 12:17:43 pm

I think the x1 pro needs one more complete generation to be there, but personally I would buy it before I'd buy the new Leica M.



Agree 100%.  I had an X100, which has the same drawbacks a sthe XPro1.  I loved it, really, but the EVF was too slow and the way you selected an AF point ruined it for me.  Its not that the pain of selecting an AF point is the end of the world, as I usually MF anyway, but the MF functionality was useless to me.  I sold it.  I recently tried the X100s, and all my gripes have been addressed.  You select the AF point with the right thumb, keeping an eye in the VF.  The EVF is MUCH improved, and teh MF virtual split screen is usable.  When tehse improvements hit the XPro(2) I will get one.  The 35 1.4 is a fantastic lens, the color is second to none, in my book. 

Waiting on an Xpro2 is keeping me away from the MFT cams, as I (still) have too many cameras, only two of which I actually like using, the M9 and the H 501cm with film.  The problem with these cameras is that I'm limited to about 1000 iso, which is where the Nikon comes in, or eventually the M or Xpro2.  maybe an MFT system if it fits me.  An Xpro system at under $3k sounds good, as I'm not exactly turning a profit on these editorials and I can't shoot anything commercial due to conflicts etc. 
Title: Re: Hasseblad Lunar in stock!
Post by: bcooter on June 14, 2013, 08:20:11 pm
Agree 100%.  I had an X100, which has the same drawbacks a sthe XPro1.  I loved it, really, but the EVF was too slow and the way you selected an AF point ruined it for me.  Its not that the pain of selecting an AF point is the end of the world, as I usually MF anyway, but the MF functionality was useless to me.  I sold it.  I recently tried the X100s, and all my gripes have been addressed.  You select the AF point with the right thumb, keeping an eye in the VF.  The EVF is MUCH improved, and teh MF virtual split screen is usable.  When tehse improvements hit the XPro(2) I will get one.  The 35 1.4 is a fantastic lens, the color is second to none, in my book. 

Waiting on an Xpro2 is keeping me away from the MFT cams, as I (still) have too many cameras, only two of which I actually like using, the M9 and the H 501cm with film.  The problem with these cameras is that I'm limited to about 1000 iso, which is where the Nikon comes in, or eventually the M or Xpro2.  maybe an MFT system if it fits me.  An Xpro system at under $3k sounds good, as I'm not exactly turning a profit on these editorials and I can't shoot anything commercial due to conflicts etc. 


The good thing is we have a lot of options with good image quality we didn't have a few years ago.   Actually amazing image quality considering.

The things on any camera that are a quirk or workaround to me would be a disaster for someone else.  I love the OMD, I have friends that would hate it and there is no reason to ever try convince anyone of what they should buy. 

One of the few lessons I try to learn.

The x1 pro wasn't for me, even though the files at high iso are stunning and skin tones are beautiful.

The mft pana is great for work, great for video, not so appealing as a camera that I fell in love with it, though the video is killer.

The OMD is ok for video, pretty good actually, great for stills and to me very appealing.

The OMD still needs one more generation.  Slightly better track/continuous focus, the evf is pretty and detailed, the lcd has a kind of strange cast to it like a mid curve has been pulled wrong.   It also needs input and output sound, maybe an Olympus not Panasonic zoom or two, but other than that it works.

Olympus really needs a 25mm 1.2 or 1.4 lens, rather than the larger and much cheaper looking Leica/Panasonic 25mm (which is a great lens, just kind of big and ugly).

Now, I don't consider myself a brand guy, I dunno maybe I am, but I'd love a real M with the evf and autofocus (I know heresy), but the M with a center point manual focus is interesting but limiting.

Anyway, bottom line is today the most interesting cameras I see are smaller in size.

What I'd really like to see is less limits.  How hard would it be to add sound in and out on the OMD, in camera stabilizaiton on any camera, even an in camera nd filter because these little cameras need nd filters in bright light, still or motion.

I know the electronic model is to send us drips of upgrades every 18 months, but it gets old regardless of the price.

You'd think a company like Olympus, who needs the profit on the camera ledger would understand that.

I'm afraid Olympus might just screw the pooch and decide amateur is the only way to go, which makes no sense in the fact they have all those larger 4/3's professional lenses sitting on the shelf, but hey, I'm just a buyer, but I've worked a lot of files and the potential of this camera is there to really make a statement.

How this relates to the Lunar.  I dunno, other than the OMD is really pretty, the lunar a little pimped out for my taste, especially if I was writing a check.  (Not).

IMO

BC



Title: Re: Hasseblad Lunar in stock!
Post by: BernardLanguillier on June 14, 2013, 08:30:40 pm
At least it's a better camera and potentially looks nicer (I don't think so but tastes vary) than the Sigma SD1. Remember that initial sticker price ridiculousness?

The image quality of the SD1 at base ISO is vastly superior though. So the SD1 has at least one photographic attribute that clearly justified a certain price differentiation (not that I thought its initial pricing was reasonnable).

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: Hasseblad Lunar in stock!
Post by: thierrylegros396 on June 20, 2013, 12:38:14 pm
Similarly Leica propose a new special G-Star Raw camera edition  ;D ;D ;D

Money, money, money  ::) ::) ::)

Thierry