Luminous Landscape Forum

Equipment & Techniques => Mirrorless Cameras => Topic started by: Guillermo Luijk on June 08, 2013, 08:34:56 pm

Title: EVF magnification beats most DSLRs OVF with the Olympus VF-4
Post by: Guillermo Luijk on June 08, 2013, 08:34:56 pm
The new Olympus VF-4 EVF (2.36 Mpx, 100% field of view) with its 1,48x magnification, beats most OVFs found on DSLR cameras, even top FF models:

(http://www.guillermoluijk.com/misc/magnificacion.gif)

Title: Re: EVF magnification beats most DSLRs OVF with the Olympus VF-4
Post by: hjulenissen on June 09, 2013, 01:13:16 am
But pretty it ain't:
(http://www.dailycameranews.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Olympus-v4-evf-specs.jpg)
Title: Re: EVF magnification beats most DSLRs OVF with the Olympus VF-4
Post by: stevesanacore on June 09, 2013, 10:24:06 am
Kind of silly looking and very inconvenient I'll bet. An OMD and Sony NEX will slide in your pocket. This looks like it would be a major obstacle to that. Why not just build it into the body of a new OMD which is what I, and probably a million others are waiting for.

Title: Re: EVF magnification beats most DSLRs OVF with the Olympus VF-4
Post by: Vladimirovich on June 09, 2013, 01:51:09 pm
Why not just build it into the body of a new OMD which is what I, and probably a million others are waiting for.
because there is no new OMD body yet (publicly available)... otherwise it is probably already built in... GH2 had 1.42x EVF back 2+ years ago.
Title: VF-4 EVF magnification beats most DSLRs. And it tilts up!
Post by: BJL on June 10, 2013, 01:39:40 pm
What attracts me more than the VF image size is the ability to swivel these accessory EVFs up. Has anyone here worked with this combination of a Pen body with removable EVF? Also as far as pocketability, I do not find it at all convenient to put my E-M5 into a pocket, partly due to its VF hump, so the option of removing the EVF and then putting it and a sleeker flat-topped body in two pockets seems more viable.

The only other pocketable option I see is a flush-mounted EVF like in the NEX-7, but in that example there is the sacrifice of a less high rear screen, and I suspect that the VF magnification is constrained to keep the total camera body height down.

P. S. I am puzzled by the number of complaints I see here and elsewhere about the appearance of this combo: I care about how the pictures look much more than how the camera does! I also suspect that these objections are more due to it being unusual, and I am all for breaking with conventional appearances if new technological functions (like a VF that can tilt up!) dictate a new form.

Title: Re: VF-4 EVF magnification beats most DSLRs. And it tilts up!
Post by: Guillermo Luijk on June 10, 2013, 07:15:13 pm
Has anyone here worked with this combination of a Pen body with removable EVF?.

This is me taking a picture with an E-P2 and a tilted VF-2:

(http://www.guillermoluijk.com/misc/cazadorcazado.jpg)

and this was the picture taken:

(http://www.guillermoluijk.com/misc/busker.jpg)


Even if I still prefer a well integrated EVF in the camera body, I can find several advantages in a removable EVF:

Title: Re: VF-4 EVF magnification beats most DSLRs. And it tilts up!
Post by: Vladimirovich on June 11, 2013, 12:14:54 am
  • Updatable: the opposite to the previous concept, you can keep your present camera body and just upgrade your EVF to a newer model (if I buy a VF-4 I can use it on my E-P2)
compatibility is not always a guarantee.
Title: Re: VF-4 EVF magnification beats most DSLRs. And it tilts up!
Post by: hjulenissen on June 11, 2013, 03:13:36 am
P. S. I am puzzled by the number of complaints I see here and elsewhere about the appearance of this combo: I care about how the pictures look much more than how the camera does! I also suspect that these objections are more due to it being unusual, and I am all for breaking with conventional appearances if new technological functions (like a VF that can tilt up!) dictate a new form.
My complaint about appearance was more about perceived ergonomy, compactness and robustness.

I agree that a butt-ugly camera that enables great pictures is a great camera.

-h
Title: Re: VF-4 EVF magnification beats most DSLRs. And it tilts up!
Post by: Guillermo Luijk on June 11, 2013, 03:22:35 am
compatibility is not always a guarantee.

In that case we'll have to pay for another body/EVF, like happens 100% of the times with integrated EVF cameras.
Title: Re: VF-4 EVF magnification beats most DSLRs. And it tilts up!
Post by: BJL on June 11, 2013, 10:26:06 am
My complaint about appearance was more about perceived ergonomy, compactness and robustness.
Now we are talking!
- on ergonomics, the ability to tilt up is very appealing, both for the low-level shots the Guilermo illustrates and with the camera on a tripod.
- on compactness, it loses compared to compact system cameras with no EVF, or with a flush-mounted one, but is still smaller than an SLR, and has the option of becoming quite compact if you remove the EVF for storage, or in situations where the rear-screen is enough.
- robustness might be worse ... but if an accessory EVF fails or is damaged, or iis superceded by a new better model, "modularity" in replacement or upgrading might be an advantage. Remember when some high end film SLRs offered swappable VFs?

I am not sure yet, but maybe my next system upgrade might be a combination like the E-P5 (with tiltable rear screen and best available in-body IS and sensor) with a tiltable, removable accessory EVF. But it partly depends on what fraction of situations I get to be comfortable composing on the rear screen.


P. S. who else remembers when the "serious photography credo" included avoiding the flat, bright midday light, working instead earlier and later in the day? Now instead we hear that the occasional problem of bright sun on the rear screen makes it completely unacceptable for composition.
Title: Re: VF-4 EVF magnification beats most DSLRs. And it tilts up!
Post by: armand on June 11, 2013, 12:32:18 pm
P. S. who else remembers when the "serious photography credo" included avoiding the flat, bright midday light, working instead earlier and later in the day? Now instead we hear that the occasional problem of bright sun on the rear screen makes it completely unacceptable for composition.

This is funny, it wasn't that long ago when I last read it. I wonder if it's because the software is so much better, +/- better sensors.
Title: Re: VF-4 EVF magnification beats most DSLRs. And it tilts up!
Post by: uaiomex on June 12, 2013, 04:33:23 pm
Excelente! I still don't understand why so many people disregard or chastise the articulated screen. Me? I don't want to go without them anymore. Articulated EVF's are just as good.
Eduardo

This is me taking a picture with an E-P2 and a tilted VF-2:

(http://www.guillermoluijk.com/misc/cazadorcazado.jpg)

and this was the picture taken:

(http://www.guillermoluijk.com/misc/busker.jpg)


Even if I still prefer a well integrated EVF in the camera body, I can find several advantages in a removable EVF:

  • Reusable: buy the EVF once, use with several camera bodies without integrated EVF (if I buy an E-P5 I can use my VF-2 on it)
  • Updatable: the opposite to the previous concept, you can keep your present camera body and just upgrade your EVF to a newer model (if I buy a VF-4 I can use it on my E-P2)
  • Compact: when not attached to the camera body (and cameras are becoming more and more usable without the EVF), camera size can be kept to a minimum (e.g. the PEN series)
  • Tiltable: making easier to take some pictures

Title: Re: EVF magnification beats most DSLRs OVF with the Olympus VF-4
Post by: AFairley on June 12, 2013, 04:56:14 pm
Reminds me of how I used to use the DW3 finder on my F3hp.
Title: EVF VF-4, and the option of "top-down" viewfinder usage
Post by: BJL on June 12, 2013, 06:25:08 pm
That DW3 finder reminds of another "then vs now":

Then: many photographers praised the top-down ground glass VF of "pre-prism VF" style medium format bodies, with their 54mm wide image, for advantages like keeping eye-contact with a portrait subject, more comfort when the camers is on a tripod or you want to hold it lower than eye level, and not having to hold one eye closed for extended periods of time.

Now: a tiltable LCD gives a similar option (a 4:3, 3" screen is a bit wider, at about 60mm) but is decried as giving an image too small for composing.


P. S. The DW3 even has a 5x magnification option, just like LCDs and EVFs!
Title: Re: EVF magnification beats most DSLRs OVF with the Olympus VF-4
Post by: BobDavid on June 14, 2013, 10:59:47 pm
I love my EPL-1 and VF-2. It's a great combo. I've owned or used nearly every format--digital and analog--over the past 40 years.
Title: Re: VF-4 EVF magnification beats most DSLRs. And it tilts up!
Post by: philbaum on August 10, 2013, 03:48:09 pm
Excelente! I still don't understand why so many people disregard or chastise the articulated screen. Me? I don't want to go without them anymore. Articulated EVF's are just as good.
Eduardo


I agree that tilt/articulated screens are under appreciated - except perhaps that already use them :-)  Most of the complaints seem to be made by those that have not used them.  My first tilting screen was on the Nex 5n.  Some people state that they are too easy to break.  But when i looked at the 5n tilting screen, movement is accomplished by a metal plate hinge that is screwed to both the screen and the body.  Its not something that is easily broken and in 18 months of use has not loosened up at all.  Can;t speak to articulating displays as to their toughness.  The old cliche is that REAL photographers don't hesitate to get down on their bellies to get low pictures.  Well, when getting the picture low in a muddy field of tulips, i would bet most photographers would hesitate to get their clothes that dirty and will resort to hail mary type of shots, hoping to get one right.

As to EVF, in bright weather (yes i know about the magic hour but sometimes travel arrangements don't always allow shooting only at dawn or dusk) on a backpacking hike, i soon got fed up with LCD display shooting on my Nex 5n and bought the Nex 6 with built-in EVF.  I thought about buying an attachable EVF for the Nex 5n, but at 1/3 the cost of the Nex 6, it didn't seem worth the investment on my part.  Between the EVF and Tilt screen options on the Nex 6, its an excellent camera to own, IMO.

I find mirrorless cameras, with their focus peaking and magnified focusing, to be ideal for taking macros.  A macro lens that i bought 5 years ago for my DSLR was collecting dust on a shelf until i found out what fun it is to use it on a mirrorless camera.  Yes, i still have a DSLR and use it for event applications where it has its advantages.

Title: Re: VF-4 EVF magnification beats most DSLRs. And it tilts up!
Post by: bcooter on August 10, 2013, 04:27:34 pm

I find mirrorless cameras, with their focus peaking and magnified focusing, to be ideal for taking macros.  A macro lens that i bought 5 years ago for my DSLR was collecting dust on a shelf until i found out what fun it is to use it on a mirrorless camera.  Yes, i still have a DSLR and use it for event applications where it has its advantages.



At first, I loathed evf's.  When I started with video and the xl1 I thought they looked funny, as I had a lifetime of ovf.  Then well, maybe it's shooting so much video and using the RED's but I started to like them, then with the Olympus omd and the Panasonic gh3's, went from like to love.

WYSIWYG is an amazing system with continuous light.  I know, I've heard, there not there yet and there are some liabilities, but the same can be said for ovfs which has different liabilities.

EVF's are the future.  They allow articulating views, steadier shots and with old legacy lenses like Leica R's or Ms, or those f 095 chinese lense, or metabones, allows for focus that you can't get close to on any modern dslr.

I'd probably feel different if modern dslrs had a viewfinder you could actually manually focus with and removable prisms but they don't.

One other thing I love is shooting a frame, keeping my eye on the viewfinder and seeing everything frozen.  It's the most instant polaroid ever and none of this stopping, clicking a button and looking down at the lcd.  It's just shoot, correct, then shoot.

EVF's have also allowed all the different retro camera styles.  Without a evf a rangefinder would be more difficult, even the omd which mimicks the om1 series, would have been a much more difficult camera to make in a modern world with an ovf.



IMO

BC
Title: Re: EVF magnification beats most DSLRs OVF with the Olympus VF-4
Post by: Paulo Bizarro on August 13, 2013, 04:12:14 am
I am all in favour of a nice high res EVF (such as the one on my Fujifilm XE-1). However, to me nothing beats a nice and bright optical VF on a full frame DSLR, when using a fast prime lens. The latter combination is critical for my landscape and starscape photography in the wee-wee hours.
Title: Re: EVF magnification beats most DSLRs OVF with the Olympus VF-4
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on August 13, 2013, 08:20:40 pm
I was in the B&H mega store in NY the other day, and had a chance to look through several EVF.

HOLY CRAP!l!

No, I seriously mean  HOLY FREAKING CRAP!

They should come with a Surgeon General warning! If I suffered from seziours, I would have certainly got one on the spot. All that flicker, jittery movement, frozen movement when shutter half depressed...

The worst was Fuji XE-1. The best (but still eons away from OVF) was the new Olympus. I guess the only way to find them remotely acceptable is to be born after the digital revolution.
Title: Re: EVF magnification beats most DSLRs OVF with the Olympus VF-4
Post by: Isaac on August 14, 2013, 01:03:50 am
What "flicker, jittery movement, frozen movement when shutter half depressed"?

Auto-focus hunting?

Sony have obsoleted and replaced my SLT-A35 by the A37 and now the A58, so it's not the latest EVF but there's no frozen movement when the shutter is half-depressed.
Title: Re: EVF magnification beats most DSLRs OVF with the Olympus VF-4
Post by: bcooter on August 14, 2013, 03:52:11 am
I was in the B&H mega store in NY the other day, and had a chance to look through several EVF.

HOLY CRAP!l!

No, I seriously mean  HOLY FREAKING CRAP!

They should come with a Surgeon General warning! If I suffered from seziours, I would have certainly got one on the spot. All that flicker, jittery movement, frozen movement when shutter half depressed...

The worst was Fuji XE-1. The best (but still eons away from OVF) was the new Olympus. I guess the only way to find them remotely acceptable is to be born after the digital revolution.




I don't know about Sony or Fuji, but have the OMD and Gh3 with evf.

The OMD, you have to learn the menu and that's not an easy task with 86 something menu options, or more, who knows?

But once done you'll find a big difference.  The GH3 is almost perfect, out of the box and it will take you a while to realize it's not an EVF, except for the fact that WYSIWYG if you so desire.

You can set both to work semi like ovf for strobe work or if you want to see in virtual darkness.

I'm not selling you on an EVF but you can't walk into a store, spend a few minutes and understand without knowing the settings.

I personally like them, especially for manual focus because you can see what's in focus unlike a modern dslr and you can even set a zoom factor so it briefly zooms in on the subject and then backs away to full screen.

Some people find this limiting, though I think EVF are no more limiting than optical finders.  Optical finders in dslrs virtualy can not be focueed manually on moving subjects, suffer from flare, and require most people in set up to shoot a frame, move their head down, hit a button view the image, make an adjustment then spin and repeat.

EVF let you shoot and see exactly what your shooting, never move your eye from the viewfinder adjust exposure and shoot again.

All cameras are different, all have different plus and minuses but next time, give it a moment, set up a menu and try it then.

IMO

BC

Title: Re: EVF magnification beats most DSLRs OVF with the Olympus VF-4
Post by: ErikKaffehr on August 14, 2013, 06:21:22 am
Hi,

BC has a lot of good points. I shoot both OVF and EVF. EVF can look awful at times, but it tends to show what you will get, it is usable for exact focusing (magnified) and has a loot of good perks like live histogram.

The SLR principle has evolved for something like 70 years, we are just at the beginning of EVF evolution.

Best regards
Erik




I don't know about Sony or Fuji, but have the OMD and Gh3 with evf.

The OMD, you have to learn the menu and that's not an easy task with 86 something menu options, or more, who knows?

But once done you'll find a big difference.  The GH3 is almost perfect, out of the box and it will take you a while to realize it's not an EVF, except for the fact that WYSIWYG if you so desire.

You can set both to work semi like ovf for strobe work or if you want to see in virtual darkness.

I'm not selling you on an EVF but you can't walk into a store, spend a few minutes and understand without knowing the settings.

I personally like them, especially for manual focus because you can see what's in focus unlike a modern dslr and you can even set a zoom factor so it briefly zooms in on the subject and then backs away to full screen.

Some people find this limiting, though I think EVF are no more limiting than optical finders.  Optical finders in dslrs virtualy can not be focueed manually on moving subjects, suffer from flare, and require most people in set up to shoot a frame, move their head down, hit a button view the image, make an adjustment then spin and repeat.

EVF let you shoot and see exactly what your shooting, never move your eye from the viewfinder adjust exposure and shoot again.

All cameras are different, all have different plus and minuses but next time, give it a moment, set up a menu and try it then.

IMO

BC


Title: Re: Re: Re: EVF magnification beats most DSLRs OVF with the Olympus VF-4
Post by: Guillermo Luijk on August 14, 2013, 07:42:09 am
I was in the B&H mega store in NY the other day, and had a chance to look through several EVF.

HOLY CRAP!l!

Exactly the same as short minded photographers exclaimed when the first digital cameras appeared on the market!!! focusing on the performance of the very first implementations, and unable to see the revolution taking place in the following decade.
Title: Re: EVF magnification beats most DSLRs OVF with the Olympus VF-4
Post by: SZRitter on August 14, 2013, 09:40:15 am
I was in the B&H mega store in NY the other day, and had a chance to look through several EVF.

HOLY CRAP!l!

No, I seriously mean  HOLY FREAKING CRAP!

They should come with a Surgeon General warning! If I suffered from seziours, I would have certainly got one on the spot. All that flicker, jittery movement, frozen movement when shutter half depressed...

The worst was Fuji XE-1. The best (but still eons away from OVF) was the new Olympus. I guess the only way to find them remotely acceptable is to be born after the digital revolution.


That's why I went Olympus OM-D EM-5 instead of Fuji X-E1 when I sold my Nikon. The X-E1's EVF is just plain horrible...
Title: Re: EVF magnification beats most DSLRs OVF with the Olympus VF-4
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on August 14, 2013, 10:20:45 am
What "flicker, jittery movement, frozen movement when shutter half depressed"?

Auto-focus hunting?

Sony have obsoleted and replaced my SLT-A35 by the A38 and now the A58, so it's not the latest EVF but there's no frozen movement when the shutter is half-depressed.

I believe that can be explained by the use of a translucent mirror for focusing in Sony cameras.

What I noticed with Fuji is that, when tracking a moving subject, depressing the shutter half way to focus will, briefly, freeze the image. Just moving the camera around, exploring the composition of even stationary subjects, results in a jittery image. Once you settle on a composition, and there is no subject movement, all is good.

Most cameras I handled that day had the displayes set to show everything the camera has to offer, ultimately looking like a Christmas tree. Focusing areas were turning from white to green, beeping along the way, warning lights were blinking, horizons tilting, face-detection hunting passerby...an experience not unlike New York traffic ;)

I am sure that can be turned off and viewfinders ultimately adjusted to one's liking though. Just as I am sure that one, including myself, can learn to ultimately live with (and love) EVF. If I would be buying something in that category today, it would be an Olympus EPL-5 with VF-4.
Title: Re: EVF magnification beats most DSLRs OVF with the Olympus VF-4
Post by: AFairley on August 14, 2013, 12:16:33 pm
I was in the B&H mega store in NY the other day, and had a chance to look through several EVF.

HOLY CRAP!l!

No, I seriously mean  HOLY FREAKING CRAP!

They should come with a Surgeon General warning! If I suffered from seziours, I would have certainly got one on the spot. All that flicker, jittery movement, frozen movement when shutter half depressed...

The worst was Fuji XE-1. The best (but still eons away from OVF) was the new Olympus. I guess the only way to find them remotely acceptable is to be born after the digital revolution.


Well, Slobadan, this is sort of like going under the focusing cloth of a view camera and going "WTF, it's upside down!"   ;)  There are upsides and downsides to every viewfinding system, the issue for any particular user is whether the upsides of a particular one outweigh the downsides.  Obviously for you, the downsides predominate with the EVF. 
Title: Re: EVF magnification beats most DSLRs OVF with the Olympus VF-4
Post by: Manoli on August 14, 2013, 12:24:01 pm
... this is sort of like going under the focusing cloth of a view camera and going "WTF, it's upside down!"   ;) 

What a wonderfully appropriate analogy !
Title: Re: EVF magnification beats most DSLRs OVF with the Olympus VF-4
Post by: Isaac on August 14, 2013, 01:00:34 pm
Well, Slobadan, this is sort of like ...

... picking up a split-image focusing screen SLR and going "WTF, the central semi-circle is completely black!"
Title: Re: EVF magnification beats most DSLRs OVF with the Olympus VF-4
Post by: bcooter on August 14, 2013, 02:50:05 pm


I am sure that can be turned off and viewfinders ultimately adjusted to one's liking though. Just as I am sure that one, including myself, can learn to ultimately live with (and love) EVF. If I would be buying something in that category today, it would be an Olympus EPL-5 with VF-4.


Slobodan,

Once again I and you know it's all down to personal preference.

I've known people that love waist level finders and other than at lower positions, I find them very annoying, though I use them on my Contax, so go figure.  (I think I do it because the camera looks better with a wlf and it sounds better). 

But  . . . I've never looked through a camera and seen the perfect view or response.

My Contax, most medium format has a delay and I become familiar with it quickly.   Heck I've shot in studio fast sports with it and just judged the moment.

In fact with all mirrored cameras the rule is if you ever see the perfect image in the viewfinder you probably missed it.

I find it funny and have tested this where I shoot 10 to about 15 fps with the 1dx and you can still miss the perfect expression because the camera and the subject are off sync of each other (that I blame on the photo gods).

I do like EVF and your right the Oly ep4 finder is great, though that camera is tiny, tiny.  It's pretty, but it's not small enough to go into a pocket, not big enough to put a camera strap around your shoulder (well you can but it would make Tom Cruise look like the incredible hulk.)

But once again it's all personal.  Some people love rangefinders like the m series leicas.  I do also as long as I'm using a 35mm lens equivalent but wider and you see the lens in the finder blocking 1/4 of the frame, longer lenses and your peering at a 1/8" image trying to focus.

EVF's fix that and I think will get better and better.

But if you really want to experience fun, try a 16mm Beaulieu.  It's like looking through an old soda bottle.

IMO

BC
Title: Re: EVF magnification beats most DSLRs OVF with the Olympus VF-4
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on August 14, 2013, 11:59:47 pm
What a wonderfully appropriate analogy !

Sorry, kids, but I'll have to rain on your WTF parade. Comments like those can come only from photographic ignoramuses, the digital generation, who's idea of a camera is that thing that can make phone calls too, and which is to be held as far from one's nose as a baby with a dirty diaper.

I, on the other hand, have 40 years of experience of looking through OVF, from SLRs to medium format ground glass (inverted left to right), from Hasselblad prism finders to Pentax articulated ones (for LX). And I was using split image before some of you were born. So, no, you can't compare a WTF comment from someone who's never seen a camera with a WTF comment by someone who's been doing it as long as I have.
Title: Re: EVF magnification beats most DSLRs OVF with the Olympus VF-4
Post by: hjulenissen on August 15, 2013, 06:31:19 am

Slobodan,

Once again I and you know it's all down to personal preference.
OVF contains an inherent set of strengths and weaknesses. EVF contains an inherent set of strengths and weaknesses. Depending on the weight you put on each parameter, the sum might tip in the direction of one or the other. Slobodan may have one such weighting, and I think that is ok.

If camera manufacturers and photographers were all "rational", one might expect the "best" contender to win. I.e. the technology that had the best set of features judged by the largest set of photographers, including a complexity that allowed manufacturers to make the products, sell them at prices outcompeting other manufacturers, while still making a healthy profit.

I don't think that the world is perfectly rational (and it might be a sad world to live in). Still, "let us assume..." may provide some insight into how the world ticks.

For me, I'll just tag along. If the manufacturer of my lens collection choose to release a compatible camera in 2-3 years that has no mirror, I will review it and may purchase it if I am satisfied. If not, I might purchase a new camera featuring a mirror, or just keep my old one.

-h
Title: Re: EVF magnification beats most DSLRs OVF with the Olympus VF-4
Post by: Manoli on August 15, 2013, 08:19:10 am
Sorry, kids, but I'll have to rain on your WTF parade. Comments like those can come only from photographic ignoramuses, the digital generation, who's idea of a camera is that thing that can make phone calls too, and which is to be held as far from one's nose as a baby with a dirty diaper.

I, on the other hand, have 40 years of experience of looking through OVF, from SLRs to medium format ground glass (inverted left to right), from Hasselblad prism finders to Pentax articulated ones (for LX). And I was using split image before some of you were born. So, no, you can't compare a WTF comment from someone who's never seen a camera with a WTF comment by someone who's been doing it as long as I have.

A truly considered, measured and eloquent response to some (sorely lacking) levity !
Title: Re: EVF magnification beats most DSLRs OVF with the Olympus VF-4
Post by: Isaac on August 15, 2013, 11:47:53 am
So, no, you can't compare a WTF comment from someone who's never seen a camera with a WTF comment by someone who's been doing it as long as I have.

Seems completely appropriate to compare a WTF comment from someone who's apparently never looked through a particular EVF before, to a WTF comment from someone who's never looked through a particular OVF before ;-)
Title: Re: EVF magnification beats most DSLRs OVF with the Olympus VF-4
Post by: BJL on August 15, 2013, 11:49:38 am
Comments like those can come only from photographic ignoramuses, the digital generation, who's idea of a camera is that thing that can make phone calls too, and which is to be held as far from one's nose as a baby with a dirty diaper.

I, on the other hand, have 40 years of experience of looking through OVF ...
Slobodan, I very much doubt that any of the people in this thread are photographic ignorami whose only experience of photographic equipment is with modern compact snap-shot taking devices that lack OVF's. Looking at another recent thread, most participants in those forum think of the new mirrorless system cameras as their "small camera", used to complement their SLR or MF or LF gear.

Instead I would say that this forum's participants are divided into two groups:
- people with considerable experience using OVFs on SLRs and such, who also have significant experience with EVFs.
- people with considerable experience using OVFs on SLRs and such, who so far have little or experience with EVFs, and yet many of whom have strong adverse options of them.


I leave it to you to decide where the uncomfortably high ratio of opinion to experience actually lies.
Title: Re: EVF magnification beats most DSLRs OVF with the Olympus VF-4
Post by: telyt on August 16, 2013, 10:03:32 am

The SLR principle has evolved for something like 70 years, we are just at the beginning of EVF evolution.


I believe that there is potenital for great advances in EVF development but for SLRs the implementation of the principle has been devolving for a couple of decades.  A few seconds peering into the viewfinder of a 1968 Leicaflex SL illustrates how the cumulative compromises of a modern DLSR viewfinder have made this essential component nearly useless for one of the primary advantages of the concept.  It's no wonder that some people prefer an EVF over a modern DSLR OVF.  The typical DSLR OVF just plain sucks and it doesn't have to.
Title: Re: EVF magnification beats most DSLRs OVF with the Olympus VF-4
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on August 16, 2013, 10:44:55 am
Slobodan, I very much doubt that any of the people in this thread are photographic ignorami ...

Correct. But I never claimed otherwise. My phrase "comments like those" referred to the WTF comments ("image upside down" or "split image half black").

As for opinion vs. experience ratio...I thought it was clear I was talking about my FIRST IMPRESSION, for which, by definition, you do not need experience. You might have also noticed that I never disputed any of the advantages of EVF, well elaborated by others. In other words, I do not have a "strong, adverse opinion" of THEM, but of one particular aspect of them (i.e., jittery image).
Title: Re: EVF magnification beats most DSLRs OVF with the Olympus VF-4
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on August 16, 2013, 11:18:39 am
Seems completely appropriate to compare a WTF comment from someone who's apparently never looked through a particular EVF before, to a WTF comment from someone who's never looked through a particular OVF before ;-)

Once again you sem to prefer to engage in semantic hairsplitting and sophisms, rather than make an effort to understand what I was saying. Your comparison above would be valid for two photographic ignoramuses, both of which are ignorant of basic elements of photographic history and technique. Your comparison loses its sophistic seductiveness, however, if one of them isn't.
Title: Re: EVF magnification beats most DSLRs OVF with the Olympus VF-4
Post by: Isaac on August 16, 2013, 12:40:40 pm
Once again I and you know it's all down to personal preference.
Title: Re: EVF magnification beats most DSLRs OVF with the Olympus VF-4
Post by: Guillermo Luijk on August 16, 2013, 03:02:55 pm
I, on the other hand, have 40 years of experience of looking through OVF, from SLRs to medium format ground glass (inverted left to right), from Hasselblad prism finders to Pentax articulated ones (for LX). And I was using split image before some of you were born. So, no, you can't compare a WTF comment from someone who's never seen a camera with a WTF comment by someone who's been doing it as long as I have.

That is a good example of ad hominem argument (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a7/Graham%27s_Hierarchy_of_Disagreement1.svg). Another example could be: since you have been 40 years using OVF's, you are too biased towards that kind of device to objectively judge in the OVF vs EVF debate.
Title: Re: EVF magnification beats most DSLRs OVF with the Olympus VF-4
Post by: bcooter on August 16, 2013, 03:14:56 pm
All of this will become a mute point when we have motion cameras that shoot a sharp, frozen 5 or 6 k image.

Then just scrub through find it no problem, other than the data size is 1 terabyte an hour.

At least the viewfinder will be smooth.

You can see the development in something like the panasonic gh3.  Good viewfinder, touch screen focus, even photograph a face, put it in the menu and the camera will find them in a crowd.   Honestly amazing.

IMO

BC
Title: Re: EVF magnification beats most DSLRs OVF with the Olympus VF-4
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on August 16, 2013, 11:07:20 pm
...you are too biased towards that kind of device to objectively judge in the OVF vs EVF debate.

Ok, let's say, for the sake of argument, that I am biased. I'll let you then "objectively judge." I made a single observation, that the image of moving objects is jittery... Are you objectively disputing it?

Besides, I did not realize we are having an OVF versus EVF debate, especially not one that is to be "objectively judged," the result of which then should be a binding verdict in favor of one or the other!? It's been noted several times, by several posters, that all comes down to personal preferences. I expressed mine. I have no problem that you apparently have a love affair with yours.
Title: Re: EVF magnification beats most DSLRs OVF with the Olympus VF-4
Post by: Manoli on August 17, 2013, 12:54:48 am
I made a single observation, that the image of moving objects is jittery...

NO,  YOU DID NOT !

You made a somewhat humorous, light-hearted comment about EVF's and got an equally, if not more, humorous riposte. It wasn't personal in any way - but you just HAD to turn this into another confused ruckus over a perceived (non-existant) personal slight.

In case you've forgotten, part of your original HUMOROUS post:
"
HOLY CRAP!l!
No, I seriously mean  HOLY FREAKING CRAP!
They should come with a Surgeon General warning! If I suffered from seziours, .. "
"
And by the way 'seziours', is spelt seizures ..
Title: Re: EVF magnification beats most DSLRs OVF with the Olympus VF-4
Post by: bcooter on August 17, 2013, 04:02:02 am
This forum could argue about air.

Slobodan has a right to not like a evf and if he thinks it's jittery then fine, for him it is.

Sloboda is quite outspoken and usually that's refreshing, though I still don't see where the argument is.

The only vote that counts is with your wallet.  If you like traditional ov finders there are still about 12 billion of them new, another 12 billion laying around used. 

If you like the new evf, then they're making them better every day.

What I like is the options, what I loathe is the complex menus.   

Now I briefly looked at the fuji, it didn't bother me, though it wasn't as good as some others. 

What I like about the fuji is the file, it's pretty good for a cmos sensor what I don't like about the fuji is the limited lenses.

I'm still a little bit in love with the 4.3's systems.  The gh3 is amazing when used properly, the Olympus is built like a fine watch.

The file quality from both is very good, better than anyone would have expected from any digital camera under $7000 even a few years ago.

We've been running thousands of files in still and video form the gh3's the olympus, the RED 1's and honestly the panasonic is so good it's kind of scary.

I mean, a $1,000 camera should not be close to a $6,000 1dx or a $22,000 RED, but the GH3 is.

Anyway sorry to get off topic, but the one thing I really wish the makers could figure out is how to simplify the menus.  They are so deep and complicated (also can be useful) that it takes forever to learn the camera.

The RED is simple compared to an OMD. 

The problem with all of the settings is you never know exactly how a camera will react (including the viewfinder and the file) until you shoot a certain scenario with it, then you find out the good, or  . . . the bad.

This wouldn't be an issue if there wasn't 500 combinations of options.

One other thing.

Slobodan, If you think about it, (and I grew up with traditional cameras, from 8x10 on down) what would anyone have given in the film years to have an 8x10 ground glass (ok lcd) that had the fidelity of a Ipad retinia and was right side up?

Think about how cool that would have been?

IMO

BC
Title: Re: Re: Re: EVF magnification beats most DSLRs OVF with the Olympus VF-4
Post by: Guillermo Luijk on August 17, 2013, 06:02:19 am
Ok, let's say, for the sake of argument, that I am biased. I'll let you then "objectively judge." I made a single observation, that the image of moving objects is jittery... Are you objectively disputing it?

I was exclusively commenting the 40 years bla bla bla... argument here.

Regarding jittery, that is actually one of the weaknesses of EVF's and I value your impression about it. And yes, I think it's a OVF vs EVF debate, and I find it very interesting as long as there is no clear winner yet.
Title: Re: EVF magnification beats most DSLRs OVF with the Olympus VF-4
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on August 17, 2013, 08:35:07 am
... And by the way 'seziours', is spelt seizures ...

Thanks. Looks like my spellchecker got one of its own :)

Or perhaps I was still not seeing clearly, after looking through too many jittery EVFs that afternoon ;D
Title: Re: EVF magnification beats most DSLRs OVF with the Olympus VF-4
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on August 17, 2013, 08:52:14 am
... If you like the new evf, then they're making them better every day...

Indeed, and the VF-4 is already better than some from just months ago.

Now, I did find one feature that I think is outstanding. It is probably limited to Olympus, but the ability to not only recognize faces, but to focus on eye is truly helpful. And not just any eye, but the one closest to camera, as it should be. And, as you move away from the subject, the camera returns to face detection automatically. Truly amazing.
Title: Re: EVF magnification beats most DSLRs OVF with the Olympus VF-4
Post by: uaiomex on August 17, 2013, 11:16:37 am
I really like my Nex6 EVF. Sony will be approaching perfection soon in this department. I truly enjoy this small camera fitted with an EVF but I also love my 6D OVF. The difference between both systems and its advantages and disadvantages depends on the photog, the kind of work and the camera. I just hope we have the choice for years to come.
Eduardo
Title: Re: EVF magnification beats most DSLRs OVF with the Olympus VF-4
Post by: bcooter on August 17, 2013, 03:10:59 pm
Indeed, and the VF-4 is already better than some from just months ago.

Now, I did find one feature that I think is outstanding. It is probably limited to Olympus, but the ability to not only recognize faces, but to focus on eye is truly helpful. And not just any eye, but the one closest to camera, as it should be. And, as you move away from the subject, the camera returns to face detection automatically. Truly amazing.

Slobodan,

I think, who knows when, you'll eventually find that evf's give you more than you could ever get traditionally with an optical viewfinder.   Waist level, zoom in for focus, smooth view, see color changes even maybe (let's hope) real in camera view calibration to match the computer.

Understand I love the look of a ground glass (or plastic) or I did, but with digital optical finders just got too hard to focus, too something that I can't explain.   

You should really try a gh3 in the real world.    In testing a gh3 and the omd (stills) I was positive that the file was 1/2 that of a 1dx.  In side by side real world work at medium to high iso, I am positive the difference is less than 10% if that.

Now I shoot people that move and a lot on location, so that changes the equation, but I just don't see much difference, other than in your head you gotta remember a 17 is a 35 a 25 is a 50 etc. etc.

You also have to keep the thought that F8 is F4, F3.5 is F2. 

Other than that these little cameras are pretty amazing.

IMO

BC
Title: Re: EVF magnification beats most DSLRs OVF with the Olympus VF-4
Post by: Fritzer on August 18, 2013, 03:53:51 am
Regarding articulating displays or view finders, there is one thing that baffles me , and I'd be interested in your thoughts.

Personally, I find integrated, articulating electronic displays a great composition and shooting tool , it's even my favourite kind of finder solution by far .

I know the advantages of different finder systems fairly well, if I say so myself, I've used them all and still do, but ever since my Canon G3 I love tilting displays more than anything else .
There are limitations for certain purposes, and personal preferences , and by no means do I suggest it's the best tool for everyone .

What I don't get, and it bothers me to no end, is why many digital cameras with tilting screens only allow display movement for horizontal format shooting .
Did I miss the memo about portrait format being dead ?
I understand horizontal works best for video, and everyone shooting mainly for the web/display viewing; but who decided all the high-end MFT and APS-C mirrorless cameras should have that limitation for general still photography ?
Title: why do most rear screens tilt only on the long edge (for "horizontals")?
Post by: BJL on August 19, 2013, 07:34:51 pm
Regarding articulating displays or view finders, there is one thing that baffles me , and I'd be interested in your thoughts.
...
What I don't get, and it bothers me to no end, is why many digital cameras with tilting screens only allow display movement for horizontal format shooting .
A good question, since I sometime wish the rear screen of my E-M5 could be tilted on the other axis when I am taking "verticals". My guess it that it is a combination of two things:
1. Having articulation on two axes adds to bulk, so the pressure to keep these "CSC" bodies compact favors one-axis-only hinging, and horizontals are a lot more common than verticals, so hinging long-edge--only wins.
2. Maybe the articulated screens are overall used far more for video than stills, with stills more often done with the "one-eyed" EVF (you and I notwithstanding), which increases the dominance of horizontal usage of the "two-eyed" rear screen mode.
Title: Re: Re: Re: EVF magnification beats most DSLRs OVF with the Olympus VF-4
Post by: Manoli on August 21, 2013, 08:45:50 am
Slobodan ,

I was thinking about your aversion to EVF's and two thoughts came to mind.

Firstly, as far as I know, it's impossible to have a flicker-free electronic display. Even from the very first CRT's through to todays LCD and LED  tv's and monitors, flicker, in some form, was always there. Today it's mainly governed by the refresh rate which, in the case of tv,  has risen from 60 Mhz to over 240Mhz in some models. Dealing with movement, whether fast motion or panning, referred to as 'motion blur', is minimised by using a technique called 'frame insertion'. How all this relates to the issues camera makers face with EVF's beats me but ..

Secondly, in the case of the Fujifilm XE-1, I was surprised.  I'm no techie but the X-E1 has one of the highest resolution EVF's, a 2,360k LED whilst the rear screen is only a 460k LCD. I don't know whether the model you saw had the latest firmware, but last month Fuji updated their firmware to include focus peaking – which you can turn on and off. When on, it seems more like an acute shimmer than a simple flicker- not so good for simple viewing but, IMO, great for manual focusing. I haven't compared many other EVF's but as far as I'm concerned, it's God-sent when it comes to critical manual focus, shallow dof,  and with either the 3x or 10x zoom.

How this compares to the Olympus, and the new Oly in particular, I'll leave to others to comment on.

Just my 2 cents …
M



..  and I find it very interesting as long as there is no clear winner yet.

I suspect there will be no clear winner for some time yet. It surely depends on your usage.
Title: Re: EVF magnification beats most DSLRs OVF with the Olympus VF-4
Post by: telyt on August 21, 2013, 10:14:00 am
Understand I love the look of a ground glass (or plastic) or I did, but with digital optical finders just got too hard to focus, too something that I can't explain.    

Combine a viewfinder optimized for autofocus and a narrower depth of focus of a sensor (vs. film) and it's easy to see how manual focus became so difficult.  An optical viewfinder optimized for manual focus is much easier to use than the (expletive deleted) viewfinders most of us have taken for granted.  Unless people vote with their currency of choice, those are the only viewfinders camera makers will sell us.

I'm using what must be the only DSLR with a viewfinder optimized for manual focus, my eyes are 61 years old, and I find it's easier to focus accurately with this camera than with an EVF with focus peaking.
Title: Re: EVF magnification beats most DSLRs OVF with the Olympus VF-4
Post by: hjulenissen on August 21, 2013, 03:02:45 pm
What I don't get, and it bothers me to no end, is why many digital cameras with tilting screens only allow display movement for horizontal format shooting .
Did I miss the memo about portrait format being dead ?
I understand horizontal works best for video, and everyone shooting mainly for the web/display viewing; but who decided all the high-end MFT and APS-C mirrorless cameras should have that limitation for general still photography ?
I have tested the remote capture mode of my Sony RX100M2. Briefly, you enable wifi on the camera, launch an app on your Android/iOS phone, and suddenly your cellphone works as a "viewfinder" and shutter remote. Controls are very limited, the image occasionally stutters etc but I see this as being occasionally useful (images on concerts and similar).

-h
Title: Re: EVF magnification beats most DSLRs OVF with the Olympus VF-4
Post by: BJL on August 21, 2013, 06:55:08 pm
I'm using what must be the only DSLR with a viewfinder optimized for manual focus, my eyes are 61 years old, and I find it's easier to focus accurately with this camera than with an EVF with focus peaking.
Agreed that most modern OVFs are not ideal for manual focusing, in part due to being optimized for AF (as are the focusing mechanisms of most modern lenses, to make it worse).

But I am also curmudgeonly about focus peaking for still photography (I can see its attraction for video); my point of reference is manual focusing with magnified live view, be it squinting one-eyed through a "peep-hole" EVF or viewing two-eyed on the rear screen. Note that with 7x magnification, which is about "100% pixels" on the EM5, the image size on the rear screen is as big as if you were looking through a small window at the whole image being displayed on a 21" diagonal screen, of 16MP resolution. No ground glass ever gave an image as big and detailed as that, even in 14x11” view cameras.

Have you made that comparison to your OVF?
Title: Re: EVF magnification beats most DSLRs OVF with the Olympus VF-4
Post by: telyt on August 21, 2013, 09:26:02 pm

my point of reference is manual focusing with magnified live view, be it squinting one-eyed through a "peep-hole" EVF or viewing two-eyed on the rear screen. Note that with 7x magnification, which is about "100% pixels" on the EM5, the image size on the rear screen is as big as if you were looking through a small window at the whole image being displayed on a 21" diagonal screen, of 16MP resolution. No ground glass ever gave an image as big and detailed as that, even in 14x11” view cameras.

Have you made that comparison to your OVF?

Nope.  I doubt magnified view would be useful in the situations I often encounter.  My subjects move quickly and can be anywhere in (or out of) the field of view, for example a crop from the lower-left corner of the image area:

(http://wildlightphoto.com/birds/falconidae/webster02.jpg)


or a full-frame image where the bird's head was stationary for a split-second:

(http://wildlightphoto.com/birds/phasianidae/rnphea02.jpg)


or an image (cropped from horizontal) where the bird's head was caught while rising from pond level to full height:

(http://wildlightphoto.com/birds/anatidae/trswan01.jpg)


focussed on the eye as the bird was dancing around the marsh (nearly full-frame):

(http://www.wildlightphoto.com/birds/ardeidae/snegre02.jpg)


This is a small example of what can be done with a good optical viewfinder optimized for manual focus.  With eyes that are well over 50 years old.
Title: EVF magnification: future potential and new feature hopes
Post by: BJL on August 25, 2013, 11:16:03 am
Nope.  I doubt magnified view would be useful in the situations I often encounter.  My subjects move quickly and can be anywhere in (or out of) the field of view, for example ...

This is a small example of what can be done with a good optical viewfinder optimized for manual focus.  With eyes that are well over 50 years old.
Douglas,

    those are wonderful photos, that I could not achieve with manual focus on any gear whatsoever!

And yes, the strategy of "enlarged view around a selected focus area" is not suited to fast-changing scenes; selecting an off-center magnification zone on the E-M5 takes me several seconds at best.

But let me look forward to what EVF technology can hopefully do for us, even if current implementations are not quite there yet. To focus quickly on a specific off-center feature like a bird's eye, we lose the focusing aids at the center of an OVF or the "magnify when focus ring is turned" mode of an EVF, so have to rely on judging the sharpness of the VF image itself (unless focus peaking can still help off-center; I have not tried it). So the main virtue we want is a large, sharp image -- something that has gone downhill in the transitions from high magnification OVFs designed for manual focus to the somewhat smaller OVF images of autofocus 35mm format SLRs and then to the even smaller OVF images of digital SLR's in the now-dominant "smaller-than-film" formats. Compared to that, my guess is that old manual focus SLR OVF are still the best, but the best of the new EVFs (like the Olympus VF-4 accessory EVF, and maybe the forthcoming Olympus OM-D E-M1) are about on par with the OVFs of 35mm format digital SLRs and ahead of the OVF's on the smaller mainstream format digital SLRs.

Since an EVF can be designed to give an image at any combination of size and brightness, regardless of sensor size, my hope is that some future EVFs will offer images at least as large as any OVF has ever offered. My guess is that this will never be a mainstream option even in 35mm format, since even digital SLRs all have OVF image sizes smaller than the best of the older manual focus OVFs, but there is hope that some high-end accessory EVFs could be targeted to this more specialized market.

Meanwhile, I wish that there were milder magnification options like 1.4x and 2x on the OM-D E-M5: that would greatly enhance manual focusing, giving an image bigger and more detailed than any SLR OVF ever did, while still covering most parts of the scene where I am likely to want to focus. And I want the option to keep an outline of the full scene around the magnified image, so I can still check the overall framing at the same time!


P. S. Here is how I use magnified live view to focus manually on an off-center subject; the traditionalists will probably not like it!
With appropriate settings in advance:
1. use the rear screen initially, and select the focus area by touching it on the screen
2. press the "magnify" button (and swap to the EVF if desired)
3. focus manually, on the magnified view of the selected region
4. if needed, touch the magnify button again to return to the overall view.
Title: Re: EVF magnification: future potential and new feature hopes
Post by: telyt on August 25, 2013, 03:14:47 pm

But let me look forward to what EVF technology can hopefully do for us, even if current implementations are not quite there yet. To focus quickly on a specific off-center feature like a bird's eye, we lose the focusing aids at the center of an OVF or the "magnify when focus ring is turned" mode of an EVF, so have to rely on judging the sharpness of the VF image itself (unless focus peaking can still help off-center; I have not tried it). So the main virtue we want is a large, sharp image -- something that has gone downhill in the transitions from high magnification OVFs designed for manual focus to the somewhat smaller OVF images of autofocus 35mm format SLRs and then to the even smaller OVF images of digital SLR's in the now-dominant "smaller-than-film" formats. Compared to that, my guess is that old manual focus SLR OVF are still the best, but the best of the new EVFs (like the Olympus VF-4 accessory EVF, and maybe the forthcoming Olympus OM-D E-M1) are about on par with the OVFs of 35mm format digital SLRs and ahead of the OVF's on the smaller mainstream format digital SLRs.

Since an EVF can be designed to give an image at any combination of size and brightness, regardless of sensor size, my hope is that some future EVFs will offer images at least as large as any OVF has ever offered. My guess is that this will never be a mainstream option even in 35mm format, since even digital SLRs all have OVF image sizes smaller than the best of the older manual focus OVFs, but there is hope that some high-end accessory EVFs could be targeted to this more specialized market.

Yes I am hopeful that future developments in EVF technology will bring everything you suggest and more to the market.
Title: Re: EVF magnification beats most DSLRs OVF with the Olympus VF-4
Post by: org1969 on February 07, 2015, 11:46:34 am
NONSENSE  :)
That supposed viewfinder size "comparison" assumes "magnification" can be compared directly, by "dividing by the crop factor," which is BS. The viewfinder "coverage" and "magnification" "covers" and "magnifies" something - it's called the sensor! "Dividing by the crop factor" assumes that with MFT you started with something half as big as a FF sensor, but you didn't - you started with something about 1/4 the size.

Magnifying something 1/4 the size by a factor of 1.48x doesn't give you something bigger than magnifying something 4 times the size by a factor of 0.7x - the Oly EVF is about 55% of the size of the FF OVF. The Oly magnification would need to be about 2.68x to be as big as the 0.7x FF viewfinder.

Look again at the BS illustration of (supposed) viewfinder sizes in the link you posted. Conveniently, they have a "magnification 1.0x" Oly viewfinder shown, and if you compare with the supposed size difference between the 1.0x and the 1.48x viewfinders, you'll find they multiplied EACH SIDE of the viewfinder rectangle by 1.48x, making the 1.48x magnification magically turn into more than 2.19x magnification! It's the MFT math!!
Title: Re: EVF magnification beats most DSLRs OVF with the Olympus VF-4
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on February 07, 2015, 01:40:12 pm
NONSENSE  :)...

And... a warm welcome to our new forum member, whose first word here is all-caps, bold, sheer kindness ;)
Title: Re: EVF magnification beats most DSLRs OVF with the Olympus VF-4
Post by: BJL on February 07, 2015, 01:59:26 pm
org1969,

    The illustration in the OP is corrected for sensor size, so that the 1.48x with the 17.3x13mm Four Thirds format comes out roughly comparable to 0.72x for a sensor in the 36x24mm "35mm film legacy" format.  To be pedantic, the VF4 image height is comparable to 0.8x with a 24mm high sensor, and the image width is comparable to 0.71x with a 36mm wide sensor; as the OP's illustrations show.

So the VF4 gives an image that is:
- a bit higher and less wide that the 0.76x OVF magnification of the Canon 1D X,
- higher and about as wide as for the 0.7x of the Nikon D4, D800 etc. or the 0.71x of recent Canon 5D models, and
- distinctly higher and wider than with the OVF of any "APS-C" DSLR.


P. S. The VF magnification (1.48x or whatever) is a _linear_ measure, so it does indeed increase both the height and width of the image by that factor.  That's just regular math.
Title: Re: EVF magnification beats most DSLRs OVF with the Olympus VF-4
Post by: barryfitzgerald on February 07, 2015, 06:33:08 pm
What "flicker, jittery movement, frozen movement when shutter half depressed"?

Auto-focus hunting?

Sony have obsoleted and replaced my SLT-A35 by the A37 and now the A58, so it's not the latest EVF but there's no frozen movement when the shutter is half-depressed.

They're getting better though, but still I find a really good OVF is really nice to use whilst an EVF is great for manual focus but at times I wish I had the clarity of an OVF
I've been a reluctant EVF user (my film 7's still have excellent OVF's superior to many Canon FF bodies in clarity and size) If Sony offered an OVF model I would buy it without hesitation. I don't like all my eggs in one basket as they say