Luminous Landscape Forum

Equipment & Techniques => Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs – and Large Sensor Photography => Topic started by: Lust4Life on May 02, 2013, 07:21:18 am

Title: To leave Hasselblad H4D 50?
Post by: Lust4Life on May 02, 2013, 07:21:18 am
I've developed a degenerative neuromuscular disease.  As such, my days of long hikes down rough trails hauling my Hasselblad H4D 50, 28mm, 50-110mm, HTS, tripod, etc are over.

Just trying to tote the H4D 50 with one lens on it while trying to stroll down a city street is impossible.

No, my photography days are not over - I just have to adjust and work on finding my issue "entertaining" rather than limiting.

That's the given.

The question is what camera do I transition to that is dramatically lighter than the above - in short, even my wife could tote it for me with one or two lenses.

Having been sooo pleased with the images I have been getting from my Hassie, I expect it will be impossible to find anything to equal the files that I'm used to working on, but I'll learn to adjust - I just want what as close to what I've had without all of the weight issues.

Suggestions are appreciated as I've only been using the Hassie series of digitals for many years.  (Did take a quick journey with the Canon 5DMk II several years ago and did not like it!  Afraid the lack of 16 bits and low resolution was the biggest problems for me in my B&W work - lost those smooth gradations in the clouds, etc.)

Thanks


Title: Re: To leave Hasselblad H4D 50?
Post by: design_freak on May 02, 2013, 07:27:33 am
Leica Monochrom is perfect for you ( for B&W )
Title: Re: To leave Hasselblad H4D 50?
Post by: torger on May 02, 2013, 07:39:46 am
The question is what camera do I transition to that is dramatically lighter than the above - in short, even my wife could tote it for me with one or two lenses.

How heavy can you carry? Was the 5Dmk2 light enough? If so take a look at the 36 megapixel D800, make sure to lookup which lenses are good (as always with 135 systems, some lenses are good, some not so good). You will unfortunately not find a good replacement for the 50-110 zoom, there is no 35-80mm zoom for the 135 formats which is unfortunate as they could probably be of quite high optical quality (much higher than the typical 24-70 zooms). Of the small formats Canon is still the farthest away from medium format file quality, not as good dynamic range, less accurate color. For color looking at Sony A99 could be it, but it's only at 24 megapixel. When I carry the 135 system my favourite lens is the 70-200/2.8, but that's not exactly light...

Also make sure that you take some time on finding a good post-processing workflow. These small format files with default settings will not come out the same as MF files with default settings. Most think that more work is required with the D800 files, but if you put in the effort good results can be had.

Or, you could look into Leica M, don't know so much about those cameras though but others here do.

You will have to compromise in some way.
Title: Re: To leave Hasselblad H4D 50?
Post by: Lust4Life on May 02, 2013, 07:51:33 am
Planning for the future, it's not really how much I can carry but what will my wife will be comfortable with toting for me in the foreseeable future.

Any DSLR would work fine - she would have no problem with that.  Medium format with 2 lenses is just too much to ask of her.

My focus is landscape, but will become scenes from the roadside in the future.

Has anyone contrasted the Leica M9 or Leica S2 with with the Nikon D800-E?
Title: Re: To leave Hasselblad H4D 50?
Post by: BernardLanguillier on May 02, 2013, 08:07:15 am
Sorry to hear about your disease, I hope they will be able to keep it as much under control as possible.

I have not used one myself, but I would consider the Fuji X-Pro 1 and its excellent lenses.

The D800 is of course the best option by far from an image quality standpoint, but it still is a pretty bulky camera and so are the lenses.

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: To leave Hasselblad H4D 50?
Post by: Guy Mancuso on May 02, 2013, 08:45:58 am
Sorry to hear about your disease, I hope they will be able to keep it as much under control as possible.

I have not used one myself, but I would consider the Fuji X-Pro 1 and its excellent lenses.

The D800 is of course the best option by far from an image quality standpoint, but it still is a pretty bulky camera and so are the lenses.

Cheers,
Bernard


Agree there is really not much in bulk or weight savings from MF to a D800 per say. In your case a lot of folks are shooting the Fuji X1 Pro or Ex-1 which I have and really like to which is very lightweight and compact plus you still get some nice imagery from it. You can look at the Sony Nex cams also but I found the Fuji lenses better. Leica Ms are nice and smaller but they are still pretty heavy. If weight is the biggest issue than look at the Fuji. I carry mine around just because its exactly that light and compact. Also the zoom is really good on it too. I have the Nikons for work but having the Fuji it gives me a chance to carry a cam more often in times I don't want the bulk or weight of the Nikons. Frankly my Nikon kit as a whole is more bulky and weighs more than my DF kit. Obviously I got more Nikon stuff too but its really not much different overall.

Good luck and stay well.
Title: Re: To leave Hasselblad H4D 50?
Post by: chaosphere on May 02, 2013, 08:46:18 am
Hi Lust, sorry for your disease, what about the Sigma DP'x ? they have very good image quality and are very light. Are you planning to sell your HTS btw ?
Title: Re: To leave Hasselblad H4D 50?
Post by: Lust4Life on May 02, 2013, 08:50:42 am
Yes, will be selling HTS, etc in the near future.
Title: Re: To leave Hasselblad H4D 50?
Post by: FMueller on May 02, 2013, 09:14:58 am
I am very sorry to hear of your reduced mobility. I understand your frustration

4 years ago I was in an accident that hurt my mobility, I am now what they call a "walking paraplegic" and while I look pretty normal to most except for a limp, hauling heavy bags or walk over rough ground is not easy.

Post accident, I began using an M9 and a light tripod (I'd been an M film user years ago) and the capabilities of the M digital system are quite remarkable by any measure.

Recently I've been toying with the idea of a Cambo or Alpa TC with a MF back and a couple lenses as a lightweight alternative, but that project is in its nascent stages.

Furthermore, I always remind myself that Ansel Adams and many other noted photographers made some excellent and iconic work only steps away from the trunk of their automobile.

I've developed a degenerative neuromuscular disease.  As such, my days of long hikes down rough trails hauling my Hasselblad H4D 50, 28mm, 50-110mm, HTS, tripod, etc are over.
Title: Re: To leave Hasselblad H4D 50?
Post by: Lust4Life on May 02, 2013, 09:17:43 am
Amend to the "Trunk Photographer" paradigm - that's what my wife keeps telling me, and this time she is right!  :-)
Title: Re: To leave Hasselblad H4D 50?
Post by: Ken R on May 02, 2013, 11:23:10 am
Amend to the "Trunk Photographer" paradigm - that's what my wife keeps telling me, and this time she is right!  :-)


Hi! Sorry to hear about your condition. Thankfully there are PLENTY of awesome landscape shots to be made just steps from the car. Here are a few that I made literally almost next to my car and only on the Maroon Bells shot did I have to walk a tad (about 150 ft) Also, there are some amazing cameras available nowadays that are small and lightweight. The Leica M is just one of them. You can't really go wrong with any of them.

Title: Re: To leave Hasselblad H4D 50?
Post by: Lust4Life on May 02, 2013, 11:27:55 am
Wow - with those images you are proving the concept!
Beautiful shots.  Thanks for sharing!
Title: Re: To leave Hasselblad H4D 50?
Post by: EricWHiss on May 02, 2013, 11:37:28 am
Jack,
Sorry to read about your disease.  The tech cams and lenses are quite light, compared to a MFDB and you don't give up anything in quality. I was shown a new M (240) with the optional viewfinder recently and was quite impressed, though I'll bet its not as light weight as something like a sigma dp2.    It's really a turn around to recommend film, but its very light.  I have a Rollei 2.8F TLR and its incredibly light  - no batteries, etc.    I'm always impressed with the images this old camera can make.      
Regards,
Eric Hiss
Title: Re: To leave Hasselblad H4D 50?
Post by: Lust4Life on May 02, 2013, 11:48:50 am
I'm leaning toward the Nikon D800E at only 2.2# for the body.
I can handle that and a lens while my wife could carry a couple of lenses and my trusty light meter.

Before going to the Hassie 500cm years ago, I always shot Nikon F's - liked their glass!
Actually worked with Nikon many moons ago when their were developing the first digital camera.
Got to do this as a result of my working with a team out of MIT that formed Eiknoics.
At this point I have no interest in getting back into film as I have long ago sold my Howtek 8K drum scanner.

Leica S2 would be nice, but I'm thinking with the weight at 3.1# and their heavy glass I'd not gain much from the Hassie.

Thus Nikon D800E is running out front, assuming their glass is still as good as it was in the past.
Title: Re: To leave Hasselblad H4D 50?
Post by: EricWHiss on May 02, 2013, 12:29:52 pm
Yes, I didn't think you would be interested in film with all your tech background, but it does travel light.  I wouldn't be doing much of it myself, were I not involved with the excellent photo center in San Francisco where I can easily process and print. http://harveymilkphotocenter.org/     

The D800 is a great camera... better than the 5d2 you sold me  :D , and I would have suggested it too, but its still pretty heavy.
Title: Re: To leave Hasselblad H4D 50?
Post by: Guy Mancuso on May 02, 2013, 12:59:25 pm
I'm leaning toward the Nikon D800E at only 2.2# for the body.
I can handle that and a lens while my wife could carry a couple of lenses and my trusty light meter.

Before going to the Hassie 500cm years ago, I always shot Nikon F's - liked their glass!
Actually worked with Nikon many moons ago when their were developing the first digital camera.
Got to do this as a result of my working with a team out of MIT that formed Eiknoics.
At this point I have no interest in getting back into film as I have long ago sold my Howtek 8K drum scanner.

Leica S2 would be nice, but I'm thinking with the weight at 3.1# and their heavy glass I'd not gain much from the Hassie.

Thus Nikon D800E is running out front, assuming their glass is still as good as it was in the past.

It maybe not much diffrent than your Hassy in total system weight. It really will depend on what you can handle though. I would try to get to a store and play around a little and see what fits you and what weight your willing to handle. Now if you did go Nikon you can certainly wind up with a load of primes . I have 5 and a zoom which is not light weight but even the 24-120 stopped down a bit would be a good candidate for you. Again see what works the best in your court. Quality wise the D800/E is the closet you will get to your Hassy. But again though the Nikon is not that much a bulk or weight savings as some would think. Maybe start adding the weights up on the Internet. B&H does list weights in there specs.
Title: Re: To leave Hasselblad H4D 50?
Post by: Lust4Life on May 02, 2013, 01:27:15 pm
The Hassie gear I own is:
H4D 50
28mm
80mm
50-110
HTS

Now of that, I must admit to using the 28mm 98% of the time.
Never used the HTS as I find I just stitch with the 28mm.

Hindsight says I've a lot of cash tied up in gear I've never used.
Thus on any DSLR, expect I'd go with a wide and a short tele only - never liked the 50mm.
Thus it should be a whole lot lighter than the Hassie - heck, almost 2 pound just on the body saved.
And have you ever lifted the 50-110?  Could use it to clonk a gorilla over the head with to knock him out!
 ;)


Hassie with 28 & 50-110 weight is approx. 9.52
Nikon D800 with 24 PC-ED and 180mm Ed is approximately 5.41

Near 1/2 weight reduction.
Title: Re: To leave Hasselblad H4D 50?
Post by: Ken R on May 02, 2013, 01:45:58 pm
Thx!

Depending on your style you won't need much lenses for landscape. The D800e is the best DSLR ever made for landscape and pretty much equals or beats most lower end MFDB's if you use the best glass.

I spent a week in Glacier National Park with just three lenses. The 24mm TSE, 40mm pancake and the 70-200L f4 non-IS. I mostly used the 24 and then the 40. Its a pretty light setup (with the 5D3) and I honestly never felt the need for anything else. The 70-200 was key for this shot however:
Title: Re: To leave Hasselblad H4D 50?
Post by: Guy Mancuso on May 02, 2013, 02:43:04 pm
Nice wides for Nikon are the Zeiss 18mm , Zeiss 25f 2 and Sigma 35 1.4. Zeiss 50 macro is nice. Nikons actually both 85 1.4 and 1.8 are very good. Also the 70-200 F4 is really nice and light
Title: Re: To leave Hasselblad H4D 50?
Post by: Gandalf on May 02, 2013, 07:42:20 pm
I agree with Guy and disagree with Guy. His first post is spot on. If you want to reduce weight, the Fuji XE-1 is an amazing camera and likely my next photographic purchase. Guy's last post is correct too, sort of. You can buy a D800e with a small wide angle lens and an 85/1.8 and have pretty flexible kit that weighs about 6 lb. or so, but realistically that probably isn't what you are going to do. If you go with the Fuji, you can have a few lenses and still be light and portable. Add a couple zooms to the Nikon kit and you are pretty close in weight to the Hassy.

The D800e is a great way to go if you are trying to buy quality on a budget, but since you already have the Hassy, add a kit that will be truly light and portable. If you want to shoot with long lenses, you can't beat a DSLR, but for anything else there are better options. The combination of MF and a small mirrorless camera is tough to beat.
Title: Re: To leave Hasselblad H4D 50?
Post by: Guy Mancuso on May 02, 2013, 08:30:22 pm
I agree with Guy and disagree with Guy. His first post is spot on. If you want to reduce weight, the Fuji XE-1 is an amazing camera and likely my next photographic purchase. Guy's last post is correct too, sort of. You can buy a D800e with a small wide angle lens and an 85/1.8 and have pretty flexible kit that weighs about 6 lb. or so, but realistically that probably isn't what you are going to do. If you go with the Fuji, you can have a few lenses and still be light and portable. Add a couple zooms to the Nikon kit and you are pretty close in weight to the Hassy.

The D800e is a great way to go if you are trying to buy quality on a budget, but since you already have the Hassy, add a kit that will be truly light and portable. If you want to shoot with long lenses, you can't beat a DSLR, but for anything else there are better options. The combination of MF and a small mirrorless camera is tough to beat.

I agree and the real issue with getting a Nikon and guilty as hell is one or two lenses just is a tease. Lol

It's more like how many you can stuff in your bag. I'm a pig when it comes to glass and have a bunch . Why I like the Fuji even though you may buy 3 or 4 lenses it still fits in a small Domke bag. Why I said total system weight by the time you get the Nikon mount glass you want your right back to a MF kit in bulk and weight give or take some here. Also the D800e really wants you to have good glass which usually means some fast heavy primes. Like I said its my work kit so weight and bulk means little to me but just to get out for the weekend or something like that the Fuji is hard to beat plus you can mount Leica M lenses on it with adapters and I have a Nikon adapter and use some Nikon mounts sometimes. Now both manual focus and stop down mode but still fun. It really depends on how desperate you are to trim bulk and weight. The compacts do it in a big way. Nikon not so much but still a good choice if your not a lens whore like me. LOL
Title: Re: To leave Hasselblad H4D 50?
Post by: FredBGG on May 02, 2013, 08:30:42 pm
Hi Jack.

I helped a friend make some gear choices. He too suffered from limited mobility, he was hit by s speeding car while standing next to his motorcycle on the sidewalk.
He damaged both knees badly and walking or carrying weights is difficult.
He too had a passion for high IQ. Had to go from 4x5 to 35mm.
I advised his to get zooms as it would make it far easier for him to compose his shots better as moving forward and backwards would be much more work
for him.
I hope your mobility isn't that bad, but something to consider.

On the wide angle side the Nikon 14-24mm is a very good zoom.
In the midrange the 24-70mm 2.8 is very good, but a bit heavy.
I recently bought a 24-85mm and it is remarkably good for the price and size. Corners are not "state of the art", but the overall look of the lens
is much better then I expected. Only 465 g
The 70-200 f4 is great and quite light 860g

I also think that a Leica and a couple of lenses would be a very good choice.
Lighter and sits nicer on the body. Lenses are really nice and small. Your wife will appreciate the small size. However no zooms.
I think you would be far better off with the new color version rather than the monochrome.
Title: Re: To leave Hasselblad H4D 50?
Post by: Lust4Life on May 02, 2013, 10:22:53 pm
Fred - would you define for me which model Leica you are thinking of?

Thanks,
Jack
Title: Re: To leave Hasselblad H4D 50?
Post by: mtomalty on May 03, 2013, 01:17:53 am
Jack,
What is the endgame with your photography?
Are you printing your selects large? Or web galleries,slideshows,etc?

After looking at your website,I think the best bang for your buck when considering size,weight,
and portability would be an M9 with 21 3.4 asph,28 2.8asph,and 50 2.0 Summicron
This kit would cover most of what I see on your website and the 4 pieces combined would
not weigh much more than your Hass 28 alone.
Sharpness is excellent and dynamic range is probably a shade less than you're accustomed
to with medium format but I don't think you would be disappointed.
The new 'M' would probably offer a little more dynamic range but if you are not on a list you would
likely not find one at a dealer for 12-15 months.

D800/D800e would trump the M9 for dynamic range and resolution but once you add 2-3 of the
select lenses that take advantage of the cameras potential you are not far away from your
Hasselblads bulk and weight.

Mark
Title: Re: To leave Hasselblad H4D 50?
Post by: Lust4Life on May 03, 2013, 06:34:20 am
Mark,

I'm now wanting to share more of my work in a printed manner.
Have printed in the past on the Epson 4800 but only as give aways to family, friends and my personal enjoyment.
Plan is to approach a few galleries over the next two months and see what response I get.

See max print size being what ever a Canon/Epson printer at 24" can handle.

Jack
Title: Re: To leave Hasselblad H4D 50?
Post by: ErikKaffehr on May 03, 2013, 06:48:38 am
Hi,

Do you want to leave the tripod behind? If not, a tecnical camera with just a wide anngle may be an interesting option?

The new Leica M seems to be worth looking into.

Full frame DSLRs and zooms tend to be bulky, perhaps little gain over the blad regarding weight.

Sony NEX, Fuji-X, 4/3 may be worth considering, too.

Best regards
Erik
Title: Re: To leave Hasselblad H4D 50?
Post by: Lust4Life on May 03, 2013, 07:02:06 am
Eric,

Tripod I have is very light and my wife can handle that easily.
She is in great shape and can handle a tripod, my light meter and a lens or two.

I used to have the Cambo with several lenses - must admit I didn't care much for it.  Too much to fiddle with.

I'm thinking I'd carry a camera body with a prime wide angle on it - my norm - and wife can handle one short tele prime lens, light meter and tripod.

My eye gravitates to an image that has high dmax and smooth gradations (love the work of Brett Weston and Cole Thompson). Look of images I like is with a lot of contrast BUT with details in the shadows and highlight.  Need lots of dmax to accomplish that or mild use of HDR - HDR with a tech camera is no fun as far as I'm concerned.
 
Jack
Title: Re: To leave Hasselblad H4D 50?
Post by: Ken R on May 03, 2013, 11:32:18 am
Eric,

Tripod I have is very light and my wife can handle that easily.
She is in great shape and can handle a tripod, my light meter and a lens or two.

I used to have the Cambo with several lenses - must admit I didn't care much for it.  Too much to fiddle with.

I'm thinking I'd carry a camera body with a prime wide angle on it - my norm - and wife can handle one short tele prime lens, light meter and tripod.

My eye gravitates to an image that has high dmax and smooth gradations (love the work of Brett Weston and Cole Thompson). Look of images I like is with a lot of contrast BUT with details in the shadows and highlight.  Need lots of dmax to accomplish that or mild use of HDR - HDR with a tech camera is no fun as far as I'm concerned.
 
Jack

As far as image quality goes you will love the D800E. It has amazingly clean shadow detail, even in the very deep shadows. I know it has been discussed a lot in forums and at times it has been a controversial subject but the performance is real. The files one can produce with it are incredibly malleable and one can get the HDR look and feel (or almost any look) with single image capture no problem. That was something only possible with medium format digital before this camera came out. For color photography the top end MFDB's still produce better and more manipulable files. But the D800e is close.
Of course the sensor is not there by itself, you need to consider the lenses and body and if you want camera/lens movements still the tech cameras are king. If I were you I would rent a D800e and a few lenses (lensrentals.com is good) and or any of the other systems you are looking at if you can't go somewhere and test them out before making a final choice.
Title: Re: To leave Hasselblad H4D 50?
Post by: Paul Ozzello on May 03, 2013, 12:11:50 pm
Eric,

Tripod I have is very light and my wife can handle that easily.
She is in great shape and can handle a tripod, my light meter and a lens or two.

I used to have the Cambo with several lenses - must admit I didn't care much for it.  Too much to fiddle with.

I'm thinking I'd carry a camera body with a prime wide angle on it - my norm - and wife can handle one short tele prime lens, light meter and tripod.

My eye gravitates to an image that has high dmax and smooth gradations (love the work of Brett Weston and Cole Thompson). Look of images I like is with a lot of contrast BUT with details in the shadows and highlight.  Need lots of dmax to accomplish that or mild use of HDR - HDR with a tech camera is no fun as far as I'm concerned.
 
Jack

Have you considered the Sigma DP1/DP2 Merrills ? They're a little quirky but I've seen some 30" prints that are mind blowing.
Title: Re: To leave Hasselblad H4D 50?
Post by: FredBGG on May 03, 2013, 12:46:03 pm
The new M with 24MP Cmos sensor and live view.
Very nice discreet urban/street photography camera.

Range finder as well as live view focusing.

Brilliant lenses.

Sits very nicely on the body while walking.

A long time Leica user director of photography friend of mine says it's the best digital Leica without doubt.

Dynamic range is better than their CCD versions. That's going to be important for your sky work.

Another gadget you might want to consider as a side kick to this is the Photodiox Rhino camera.
It is a stitching camera that used for example old Hasselblad lenses and a Nex & camera to produce much higher
res than a MFD SLR. Stitching is easy as it is rectalinear and without moving the lens.
The setup is really really light for the IQ you get.

(http://fotodioxpro.com/RhinoCam_Images/website/vrc-crop-demo-4up.jpg)

IQ is outstanding, but you would need a tripod. However there are some really nice super light carbon tripods
like the brenro c21902.

Title: Re: To leave Hasselblad H4D 50?
Post by: RVB on May 03, 2013, 03:16:44 pm
Hi all ,just my two cents.. I have also had difficult health problems for a long time and weakness is one of the problems,If weight is an issue then it's tough to beat the Leica M,the new M is almost the same weight as the D800E but the glass is lighter and better than Nikon glass,the high performance glass for canon and nikon that is arriving soon from Zeiss will be excellent but heavy,just look at the size of the 55mm 1.4,

I have a Leica S and it's a little easier to transport than a hasselblad even though the lenses are heavy (they are optically excellent).what about an alpa with the H4d-50 back and rodenstock glass?that would be lighter than the Hassy and HTS with lenses?
Title: Re: To leave Hasselblad H4D 50?
Post by: ErikKaffehr on May 03, 2013, 03:32:54 pm
Hi,

You are lucky to have a great person on your side!

Regarding DR I would suggest that late generation Sony sensors are great, and I don't think the M9 is far behind. To get the results you want you need to make best use of that DR. Whatever your choice, it is mostly about making best use of it.

A larger format sensor can collect more light and needs less magnification for a given size of prints. Smaller sensors need t work a lot harder to keep up with demands.

Best regards
Erik


Eric,

Tripod I have is very light and my wife can handle that easily.
She is in great shape and can handle a tripod, my light meter and a lens or two.

I used to have the Cambo with several lenses - must admit I didn't care much for it.  Too much to fiddle with.

I'm thinking I'd carry a camera body with a prime wide angle on it - my norm - and wife can handle one short tele prime lens, light meter and tripod.

My eye gravitates to an image that has high dmax and smooth gradations (love the work of Brett Weston and Cole Thompson). Look of images I like is with a lot of contrast BUT with details in the shadows and highlight.  Need lots of dmax to accomplish that or mild use of HDR - HDR with a tech camera is no fun as far as I'm concerned.
 
Jack
Title: Re: To leave Hasselblad H4D 50?
Post by: theguywitha645d on May 03, 2013, 04:03:28 pm
If weight is the issue and I assume your problems will get worse, I might go for the Leica M and some Leica glass. It will be smaller that the D800, which I have.

If you shoot with one focal length primarily and think you could live with that, an Alpa TC and a digital back might be small and light enough for your wife.

Have you explained the benefits of weight training to your wife? It would seem to solve two problems with one solution and you could keep your Hasselblad...
Title: Re: To leave Hasselblad H4D 50?
Post by: FredBGG on May 03, 2013, 04:19:45 pm
Eric,
My eye gravitates to an image that has high dmax and smooth gradations (love the work of Brett Weston and Cole Thompson). Look of images I like is with a lot of contrast BUT with details in the shadows and highlight.  Need lots of dmax to accomplish that or mild use of HDR - HDR with a tech camera is no fun as far as I'm concerned.
Jack

For this aspect of your photography the D800E has the best sensor for you in a relatively light camera.
Shadow and highlight detail is excellent as is shadow and highlight recovery.

Here are two examples:

Shadow detail recovery:
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8105/8633809552_a0a67ee815_b.jpg (http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8105/8633809552_a0a67ee815_b.jpg)

Highlight detail recovery:
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5340/7412274614_0ab5f4bf2f_c.jpg (http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5340/7412274614_0ab5f4bf2f_c.jpg)

The new Adobe Camera Raw process does a very nice job in handling blacks and shadows as well as whites and highlights.
Title: Re: To leave Hasselblad H4D 50?
Post by: Lust4Life on May 03, 2013, 10:43:08 pm
Both images shot on the D800?
What lens?
Quite impressive!

Jack


For this aspect of your photography the D800E has the best sensor for you in a relatively light camera.
Shadow and highlight detail is excellent as is shadow and highlight recovery.

Here are two examples:

Shadow detail recovery:
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8105/8633809552_a0a67ee815_b.jpg (http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8105/8633809552_a0a67ee815_b.jpg)

Highlight detail recovery:
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5340/7412274614_0ab5f4bf2f_c.jpg (http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5340/7412274614_0ab5f4bf2f_c.jpg)

The new Adobe Camera Raw process does a very nice job in handling blacks and shadows as well as whites and highlights.
Title: Re: To leave Hasselblad H4D 50?
Post by: ErikKaffehr on May 04, 2013, 12:49:15 am
Hi,

From what I have read and seen Nikon D800, or rather the Sony sensor they use is a real champ in DR. Handling the clouds is more about correctly exposing for the highlights. A larger sensor collects more photons and all other things kept equal gives smoother highlights and midtones. What Sony sensors do really well is to push down the dark noise.

Here are a couple of pages I wrote comparing D800E and Phase One IQ 180, not based on my images but raw images I attained and I have all reasons to think that those images are OK. This may give an idea on the DR issue.

http://echophoto.dnsalias.net/ekr/index.php/photoarticles/71-mf-digital-myths-or-facts?start=2
http://echophoto.dnsalias.net/ekr/index.php/photoarticles/71-mf-digital-myths-or-facts?start=3


The new Leica M sensor is quite similar to the Sony sensor. It is CMOS with massively parallell AD-converters. It has something like 1.3 EV less DR than the Nikon but it is still very good.

I use a Sony Alpha 99, which essentially has the same sensor as the D600 (AFAIK), here are some samples. The samples were chosen to show tonal separation in sky, needing a bit short exposure, and lifting shadows. Those are single exposures processed in Lightroom 4.

(http://echophoto.smugmug.com/Travel/Stuff/i-JnGb9Pw/0/L/20130119-_DSC0692-L.jpg)
Original: http://echophoto.smugmug.com/Travel/Stuff/i-JnGb9Pw/0/O/20130119-_DSC0692.jpg

(http://echophoto.smugmug.com/Travel/Stuff/i-s6RWMPw/0/L/20130119-_DSC0706-L.jpg)
Original: http://echophoto.smugmug.com/Travel/Stuff/27603520_zJWRhh#!i=2492064327&k=s6RWMPw

(http://echophoto.smugmug.com/Travel/Stuff/i-fCBvvvx/0/L/20130406-_DSC1240-L.jpg)
Original: http://echophoto.smugmug.com/Travel/Stuff/i-XcK9qSZ/0/O/20130406-_DSC1241.jpg

The last image is taken with a Sigma 12-24/4.5-5.6 at 15 mm, it has really bad corners, I know.
Best regards
Erik



Both images shot on the D800?
What lens?
Quite impressive!

Jack


Title: Re: To leave Hasselblad H4D 50?
Post by: Lust4Life on May 04, 2013, 06:55:38 am
OK, so let's say I go with the D800E as I'm obsessed with sharp landscape details.
I noted on the link above to the Phase/D800 comparison that he was using a Leica 50Cron lens on the D800.

Search shows there are several Adapters for the Leica to Nikon lenses.
Any favorite brands?

Has anyone compared the Leica lenses with an adapter to the Nikkor ED or like lenses?

In short, what I'm hoping to define is what wide angle (I live with the 28 Hassie as my main lens) and shot tele lenses, regardless of price, would be considered the optimum to mate with a D800E shooting landscapes.

Jack
Title: Re: To leave Hasselblad H4D 50?
Post by: ErikKaffehr on May 04, 2013, 09:18:09 am
Leitax, but it is not exactly an adapter but a replacement bayonet. Leitax is here: http://leitax.com


Regarding lenses, your 28 mm on the D50 corresponds to about 20 mm on full frame 135 (based on image diagonal). So I guess 18 mm is closest.

I would also consider Zeiss lenses and some of the Nikon lenses. Sigma 35/1.4, Sigma Macros are said to be awesome.

Zeiss has a new generation of lenses built for full frame 135, Distagon 25/2, Distagon 55/1.4 and Apo Sonnar 135/2.

I'm pretty sure many of Nikon's lenses are perfectly good for the job.

I am not sure that Leica lenses are better than say Zeiss, Nikon or Sigma. They may be better in some cases or some aspects.

Most lenses are quite OK when stopped down, so much of the effort is going into designing lenses that perform well at large apertures.

Photozone has a lot of lens test. They are good tests as long as we agree with their testing methods. They "work around" field curvature and it may be OK or it may not.

I have not seen a lot of comparisons between Leica and Nikon.

Marc McCalmont (who uses Leica lenses on Nikon D800E) is very helpful, you can consider PM-ing him with your questions.

Best regards
Erik

OK, so let's say I go with the D800E as I'm obsessed with sharp landscape details.
I noted on the link above to the Phase/D800 comparison that he was using a Leica 50Cron lens on the D800.

Search shows there are several Adapters for the Leica to Nikon lenses.
Any favorite brands?

Has anyone compared the Leica lenses with an adapter to the Nikkor ED or like lenses?

In short, what I'm hoping to define is what wide angle (I live with the 28 Hassie as my main lens) and shot tele lenses, regardless of price, would be considered the optimum to mate with a D800E shooting landscapes.

Jack
Title: Re: To leave Hasselblad H4D 50?
Post by: ErikKaffehr on May 04, 2013, 09:24:30 am
Hi,

Nikon 14-24/2.8, Zeiss 15/2.8, Zeiss 18/3.5, Zeiss 21/2.8, Samyang 14/2.8. Regardless of price.

Check this site: http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2012/03/d800-lens-selection

And this one: http://tashley1.zenfolio.com/blog/keyword?k=D800E

I guess that authors are happy to comment.

Best regards
Erik
Title: Re: To leave Hasselblad H4D 50?
Post by: hasselbladfan on May 04, 2013, 02:08:31 pm

Having been sooo pleased with the images I have been getting from my Hassie, I expect it will be impossible to find anything to equal the files that I'm used to working on, but I'll learn to adjust - I just want what as close to what I've had without all of the weight issues.


Before making the step of downgrading your equipment, have you considered taking a dog?

I recently saw a dog (men's best friend) carrying a backpack for his master. It was resting on his back and attached to his belly, so that it could not slip. I am not sure what was in it, but any big dog can carry a Hassie and some lenses on his back.

I am sure your wife can walk the dog next to you and you can still use your favorite brand (mine also by the way). Leicas are great, but not the same.
Title: Re: To leave Hasselblad H4D 50?
Post by: Lust4Life on May 05, 2013, 07:00:22 am
Nice idea about the dog, but I have a wife!
She is better looking, I don't need to walk here several times a day and pick up after her, she can cook, IF I ask nicely I'm sure she would wag her tail!

Now, do I really need a dog???
 ::)

PS:  We have a monster cat that would protest if he had to share the domain with another 4 legged critter.
Title: Re: To leave Hasselblad H4D 50?
Post by: BlasR on May 05, 2013, 07:40:12 am
Then eat your cat, in get the Dog...So yes you need the dog, the cat its just there to eat...
look when u give food to the cat, I bet, never look at you.

Bad, I idea to have monster cat, they just like to get fat, because they are just cat!

 :'(
Title: Re: To leave Hasselblad H4D 50?
Post by: eronald on May 05, 2013, 09:27:35 am
A photographer friend of mine with MS had a Contax G and film.
He could move in slow mo, but on a bad day he was very much as they say "challenged".
He claimed to take photos of "things that didn't run away from him".
And produced stunning Cibachrome images printed by a specialist lab.

Also, frankly the only thing which means heavy or bulky is "pro gear" and "pro zooms". A 5D2 and a prime 50/1.8 weigh almost nothing. Plastic cameras and lenses can be surprisingly good when used with care. In particular the Canon consumer cameras are astonishingly good when fitted with primes. Stitching and super-resolution can be done by software.

Edmund
Title: Re: To leave Hasselblad H4D 50?
Post by: douglasboyd on May 05, 2013, 09:38:27 am
You can get down to under 1 pound with any of the new mirror-less APS-C cameras with 24mp sensors.  You will be amaz==ed at the quality that is possible with these cameras.  All you give up in the end is 36mp (Nikon D800E) or 50mp (Hassey).  But you can still print big with only 24mp, and have great features that Hassey and Nikon are misssing-- such as a tilting screen for low-angle or high-angle shots, focus peaking for using Leica lenses, etc.  I personally use the Nex7 for this, but there are plenty of alternatives.
==Doug Boyd


Title: Re: To leave Hasselblad H4D 50?
Post by: jerome_m on May 06, 2013, 02:19:52 am
Since you use mainly the 28mm, you could simply limit yourself to the H4D and that lens and consider a well designed backpack for your wife. The H4D + 28mm weight about 2,5 Kg, not much more than a D800 and pro zoom.

Your problem is that there is no lens comparable to the 28mm for 24x36 SLRs if you want that level of IQ... You could get a Leica M and a 21mm f3.5, that would be half the weight (and half the resolution), but the handling is completely different.
Title: Re: To leave Hasselblad H4D 50?
Post by: Lust4Life on May 06, 2013, 06:46:58 am
Since you use mainly the 28mm, you could simply limit yourself to the H4D and that lens and consider a well designed backpack for your wife. The H4D + 28mm weight about 2,5 Kg, not much more than a D800 and pro zoom.

Your problem is that there is no lens comparable to the 28mm for 24x36 SLRs if you want that level of IQ... You could get a Leica M and a 21mm f3.5, that would be half the weight (and half the resolution), but the handling is completely different.

Good idea.  Before giving up completely on the Hassie, the H4D50 with the 28 is what I'm going to try first.  Maybe bring the 80 as it is very light.
I can tote the H4D with the 80 on it and wife can carry the 28 with tripod. 

For the fun of it, this week I'm going to rent from the source above a Nikon D800 with a wide angle and do some comparison test shot against the H4D.  Thus, next weekend we can drive up to Hillsboro, NC and do a walk around catching shots with both cameras, them come home and see if I can feel comfortable with the Nikon level of digital file compared to what I'm used to from the Hassie.

Will post an update on my thoughts after I'm done with my test.

Jack
Title: Re: To leave Hasselblad H4D 50?
Post by: jerome_m on May 06, 2013, 08:28:44 am
Don't underestimate the effect of a well designed backpack for your wife. With a shoulder worn photo bag, 5 Kg of equipment is heavy to carry on. With a well designed backpack, one which distributes the weight on the hips, 10 Kg is something one barely feels.

The problem with backpacks is, normally, that one needs to take them off to access the equipment. But that would not be a problem if you wife carries the bag: you can just access the camera on her back.

This does not mean that you can load your wife with tons of equipment (she will have things of her own to fit in the bag), just that her ideal carry weight could fit the H4D and the 28mm lens.

Have a look at the bags in a store selling trekking stuff. Your ideal bag should have a compartment usable for the camera and one for your wife's stuff, a large, comfortable belt which is where all the weight go, and a flexible frame so that the bag is separated from the carrier back for ventilation. The shoulder straps do not carry much weight (the belt does) they are just there to keep the bag balanced. Plan to try a few bags until you find one which fits your wife body. It pays.
Title: Re: To leave Hasselblad H4D 50?
Post by: RVB on May 06, 2013, 12:56:35 pm
Good idea.  Before giving up completely on the Hassie, the H4D50 with the 28 is what I'm going to try first.  Maybe bring the 80 as it is very light.
I can tote the H4D with the 80 on it and wife can carry the 28 with tripod. 

For the fun of it, this week I'm going to rent from the source above a Nikon D800 with a wide angle and do some comparison test shot against the H4D.  Thus, next weekend we can drive up to Hillsboro, NC and do a walk around catching shots with both cameras, them come home and see if I can feel comfortable with the Nikon level of digital file compared to what I'm used to from the Hassie.

Will post an update on my thoughts after I'm done with my test.

Jack


I think you will be hard pushed to find a lens for the D800E that can match the H4d50+hcd28,I have both the Zeiss 15mm and the Nikkor 14-24 and neither can touch the Hcd28mm....plus the D800 with zoom is only half a kilo less the the blad with 28mm,the Zeiss combo is 750 grams less but manual focus only..
Title: Re: To leave Hasselblad H4D 50?
Post by: EricWHiss on May 06, 2013, 01:51:56 pm
The d800 has very good luminous detail - meaning if you convert to black and white -you'll probably be pleased.  When I compared the d800 to my digital back, the color tonality was the area it was weakest in. So subtle changes in color  (which I believe contributes to the perception of depth in an image) were not as well represented.  I've posted this before, the d800 is a great camera, but I think they have used a selection of color filters with the purpose to increase their high iso ability of the camera at the trade off of color definition between pixels and small regions.
Renting one as only you can determine how it will suit your requirements.

Title: Re: To leave Hasselblad H4D 50?
Post by: RVB on May 06, 2013, 02:38:00 pm
For some time now I've been looking for a system that would become an addition to my Hasselblad H Series but with reduced girth and heft. The obvious candidates were the Nikon D800/E and the Leica M.

My problem has been finding a lens for either system in the range 14mm to 21mm that matches the performance of the Hasselblad HCD 28/4. I've looked at so many files including those from the Zeiss 15/2.8, the Zeiss 18/3.5, the Zeiss 21/2.8, the Nikon 14-24/2.8, the Samyang 14/2.8, all for the Nikon, and the Leica 16-18-21/4, the Leica 18/3.8, the Leica 21/3.4, all for the Leica. Unfortunately I haven't found anything that comes close to the performance of the Hasselblad HCD lens and I'm now resigned to continuing exclusively with the Hasselblad until such time that Canon introduces a sensor that takes full advantage of the performance of the superb TS-E lenses.
    

I have the tse 17mm and tse 24mm mk2,they're both very good with excellent build quality but the HCD is still better and now Hassy has the HCD24mm which is equivalent to a 17mm... overall i prefer the EF mount to the F mount,it's 10mm wider and i think stronger.I am not sure if it's possibile to make a tse17mm for nikon
Title: Re: To leave Hasselblad H4D 50?
Post by: jerome_m on May 06, 2013, 02:50:21 pm
Indeed the HCD 28mm is an impressive lens and the one the O.P. uses 99% of the time. So there is little choice for him...
Title: Re: To leave Hasselblad H4D 50?
Post by: ErikKaffehr on May 06, 2013, 03:19:46 pm
I would be much interested if someone has made a comparison using same raw converter and perhaps generating profiles using Color Checker Passport or something similar for different cameras. Not sure how much of the difference is depending on sensors, profiles or raw conversion.

Best regards
Erik

The d800 has very good luminous detail - meaning if you convert to black and white -you'll probably be pleased.  When I compared the d800 to my digital back, the color tonality was the area it was weakest in. So subtle changes in color  (which I believe contributes to the perception of depth in an image) were not as well represented.  I've posted this before, the d800 is a great camera, but I think they have used a selection of color filters with the purpose to increase their high iso ability of the camera at the trade off of color definition between pixels and small regions.
Renting one as only you can determine how it will suit your requirements.


Title: Re: To leave Hasselblad H4D 50?
Post by: FredBGG on May 06, 2013, 07:11:41 pm
I would be much interested if someone has made a comparison using same raw converter and perhaps generating profiles using Color Checker Passport or something similar for different cameras. Not sure how much of the difference is depending on sensors, profiles or raw conversion.

Best regards
Erik


Michael Hezra did just that a while ago:

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?topic=69391.0 (http://www.luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?topic=69391.0)

(http://www.luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=69391.0;attach=64261;image)

Using the files from Alex Koloskov's side by side test:http://www.photigy.com/nikon-d800e-test-review-vs-hasselblad-h4d40-35mm-against-medium-format/ (http://test:http://www.photigy.com/nikon-d800e-test-review-vs-hasselblad-h4d40-35mm-against-medium-format/)

Target shots are here:

http://www.photigy.com/nikon-d800e-v-s-hasselblad-h4d40-the-end-of-medium-format-superiority-round-two/ (http://www.photigy.com/nikon-d800e-v-s-hasselblad-h4d40-the-end-of-medium-format-superiority-round-two/)
Title: Re: To leave Hasselblad H4D 50?
Post by: ErikKaffehr on May 06, 2013, 11:32:56 pm
Hi,

Thanks for the links. I did check out color reproduction using imatest, and the Nikon was a bit more accurate using standard LR 4 processing. Accurate is not the same as pleasant. I was not able to produce color profiles on the CC card, as it was a bit overexposed on both Nikon and Hassy.

The reason I suggesting this is that to begin with any one using a given camera and a given raw convertor is tuned to that camera. Building your own profiles may give some insight and perhaps illuminate the differences between the two cameras. Insight is always good.

Best regards
Erik
Title: Re: To leave Hasselblad H4D 50?
Post by: hasselbladfan on May 07, 2013, 09:32:21 am
Looks cute no?

And your H4D50, a 28mm and a tripod fits in there !

I heard you about your cat and your wife, but I would not like anything to influence the photography I / you like.


Title: Re: To leave Hasselblad H4D 50?
Post by: FredBGG on May 07, 2013, 11:21:21 am
Hi,

Thanks for the links. I did check out color reproduction using imatest, and the Nikon was a bit more accurate using standard LR 4 processing. Accurate is not the same as pleasant. I was not able to produce color profiles on the CC card, as it was a bit overexposed on both Nikon and Hassy.

The reason I suggesting this is that to begin with any one using a given camera and a given raw convertor is tuned to that camera. Building your own profiles may give some insight and perhaps illuminate the differences between the two cameras. Insight is always good.

Best regards
Erik

The important thing here is that the OP isn't going to really miss anything IQ wise. Erganomics will be a bit different, imo better.
Leica or Nikon D800e and he'll be well on his way.

Add stitching and he'll be way above single frame capture with an MF
Title: Re: To leave Hasselblad H4D 50?
Post by: RVB on May 07, 2013, 01:14:24 pm
The important thing here is that the OP isn't going to really miss anything IQ wise. Erganomics will be a bit different, imo better.
Leica or Nikon D800e and he'll be well on his way.

Add stitching and he'll be way above single frame capture with an MF

I have a D800E with a 14-24nikkor and a Zeiss 15mm.also a H4D50 with HCD28mm and I can tell you with 110%certainty that the HCD28 with h4D50 is far superior to either the Zeiss or Nikkor on the D800E...
Title: Re: To leave Hasselblad H4D 50?
Post by: hasselbladfan on May 07, 2013, 01:19:10 pm
Fully agree.

The 28mm is awesome. As well as the new 50mm II and the 100mm F2.
Title: Re: To leave Hasselblad H4D 50?
Post by: RVB on May 07, 2013, 01:22:47 pm
Fully agree.

The 28mm is awesome. As well as the new 50mm II and the 100mm F2.


The HC 50mk2 is my next lens,and I will probably sell the Nikkor 14-24 and Zeiss 15mm to pay for it,Jerome on Getdpi posted a shot with it last week,and it's clearly a gem,superb contrast and sharp all over the frame... add in Leaf shutters and it's a must have for me..  :)
Title: Re: To leave Hasselblad H4D 50?
Post by: bcooter on May 07, 2013, 01:57:20 pm
I
No, my photography days are not over - I just have to adjust and work on finding my issue "entertaining" rather than limiting.



Sorry to here about your health issues, but great your continuing.

Nobody can tell you the camera to use, because it's al so personal, but I was at Samy's and they have this Leica Boutique and man those cameras are so, so pretty.

They are hard to resist.

I keep my old m8 and a small manfroto tripod in the boot of our cars and can't tell you how many times I've stopped and shot a background plate of something just interesting.

I think the tripod and the camera, lenses weighs just a few pounds.

Just a thought.

IMO

BC
Title: Re: To leave Hasselblad H4D 50?
Post by: TMARK on May 07, 2013, 02:55:10 pm
Sorry to here about your health issues, but great your continuing.

Nobody can tell you the camera to use, because it's al so personal, but I was at Samy's and they have this Leica Boutique and man those cameras are so, so pretty.

They are hard to resist.

I keep my old m8 and a small manfroto tripod in the boot of our cars and can't tell you how many times I've stopped and shot a background plate of something just interesting.

I think the tripod and the camera, lenses weighs just a few pounds.

Just a thought.

IMO

BC

I'm with Cooter.  A Leica M and a lens or two + a carbon tripod weigh almost nothing.
Title: Re: To leave Hasselblad H4D 50?
Post by: FredBGG on May 07, 2013, 03:32:40 pm
I'm with Cooter.  A Leica M and a lens or two + a carbon tripod weigh almost nothing.

Leica's are wonderful cameras, but with a muscular ailment having the option of image stabilization
could be an important factor. None with Leica. Plenty of options with Nikon and Canon. Canon is even adding it to it's newer wide angles.

The D800e the OP is gravitating too also has more dynamic range more color depth and higher MP count as well as no anti alias filter.
Title: Re: To leave Hasselblad H4D 50?
Post by: FredBGG on May 07, 2013, 03:35:54 pm
Jack...

I saw it was nice and cloudy today so I took a camera out with the dogs and shot some clouds for you.
I thought I'd do so with the lightest general purpose lens.. 24-85mm and D800 (Sorry did not have a d800E handy)
Very light lens with IS, but not as sharp as the 24-70 2.8 or the better primes, but for an all round compact zoom from 24-85
it's a nifty little lens.

(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7320/8718609388_9af7d2bd5c_o.jpg)

Title: Re: To leave Hasselblad H4D 50?
Post by: FredBGG on May 07, 2013, 05:38:12 pm
Here is another shot underexposed to show what the D800 is capable of in the shadows.
Having such good shadow recovery allows you to shoot coud and land scenes that have very strong extremes in lighting.

original file:

(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7399/8717833953_7f824916e9_o.jpg)

After processing

(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7391/8718951702_e172ed7d37_o.jpg)
Title: Re: To leave Hasselblad H4D 50?
Post by: FredBGG on May 07, 2013, 10:56:32 pm
One more:

(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7302/8718528039_b3372c449f_o.jpg)
Title: Re: To leave Hasselblad H4D 50?
Post by: RVB on May 08, 2013, 03:52:37 am
One more:

(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7302/8718528039_b3372c449f_o.jpg)

The D800 has a fantastic sensor,no doubt about it.I think the DR is more concentrated in the shadow's and I think that Phase one and Hasselblad/Leica S sensor's are stronger in the highlight's.
Title: Re: To leave Hasselblad H4D 50?
Post by: FredBGG on May 08, 2013, 04:06:59 am
The Sony/Nikon sensor preforms well in both highlights and shadows.
It has the largest dynamic range for now and has more room for making ones own profiles.

Shadows and highlights have plenty of data in them.

Shadows:
original and recovered. ACR

(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8105/8633809552_a0a67ee815_b.jpg)

Highlights:
original and recovered. Shadow highlights correction in PS. ACR would be better.

(http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5340/7412274614_0ab5f4bf2f_b.jpg)

The dynamic range is there from shadows to highlights. Different defaults of the raw converters may make it look like
Phase/Hasselblad sensors have more strength in the highlights. I have found both shadows and highlights are both good.
The d800 slightly better but also faster and more versatile.. not to mention the whole motion image side of things...
Phase/Hasselblad/Nikon all good sensors.
Title: Re: To leave Hasselblad H4D 50?
Post by: RVB on May 08, 2013, 07:43:31 am
The strength of the Exmor sensor is undeniable,and as you say different raw converter's will alter the result's,I still have a slight preference for CCD highlight's but it could be subjective,color response is also subjective,phase and Leica S are a little more neutral and Hassy more saturated,this will be about personal perference's,http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/i_will_not_buy_that_camera_i_promise.shtml (http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/i_will_not_buy_that_camera_i_promise.shtml) this link discuss's the color vs the new M...  the biggest challenge of the D800 and even more the D800E is to get the glass that can extract the best of the sensor,everything Ihave seen falls short of good medium format glass,the new Leica 135APO looks decent,I have the Zeiss 15mm and it's not bad but not a match for the HCD-28 or Leica S24mm and Schneider or rodie's would also be mush better...

But if we think of it as a value proposition then the Nikon is a fabulous package,great performance for a very good price,it's like high end Audio,you pay a lot more to get the extra last drop of quality..  :)
Title: Re: To leave Hasselblad H4D 50?
Post by: jerome_m on May 08, 2013, 07:44:22 am
This appears to have turned into another "the D800e is the best thing that came to photography after Nicéphore Niépce", but in the particular case of the o.p. there is a catch: he mainly uses the HCD 28 and there is simply no lens of the same IQ giving the same angle of view that one can mount on the Nikon.

It's not the camera, it's the lens.
Title: Re: To leave Hasselblad H4D 50?
Post by: Lust4Life on May 08, 2013, 07:57:35 am
Fred,

What a kind gesture!!
Thank you!

I'm studying your images and appreciating the D800 even more.

Just said to my wife/AKA "Serpa of High Priced Camera Gear" that I must get out and test the
concept of my carrying the H4D with the 80 and she carrying the 28, HTS and Tripod.

I'm hoping to get a few more walks in with this configuration but this weekends test will tell.

Again, a big Thank You for the kindness and time you spent to share.

Jack
Title: Re: To leave Hasselblad H4D 50?
Post by: RVB on May 08, 2013, 08:33:20 am
This appears to have turned into another "the D800e is the best thing that came to photography after Nicéphore Niépce", but in the particular case of the o.p. there is a catch: he mainly uses the HCD 28 and there is simply no lens of the same IQ giving the same angle of view that one can mount on the Nikon.

It's not the camera, it's the lens.

Not really,we can acknowledge that its a great sensor but we know that as a system it is not as good as Hasselblad ,Leica S or phase as the glass is not up to the same standard.. so it is as the glass that makes the final difference,if it was me looking for a lightweight system with high quality I would choose the Leica M
Title: Re: To leave Hasselblad H4D 50?
Post by: Lust4Life on May 08, 2013, 08:52:30 am
I agree with your observation that "it's the glass".

When I first started having neuromuscular problems a couple of years ago I purchase the Canon 5DMkII and an array of the TSE lenses plus a couple of primes that were top rated for Canon.  Hope was to get away from the heavy, expensive and rapidly depreciating Hasselblad gear.

What a dramatic degradation of the Canon from the Hassie images I was used to looking at.  Couple that with the delta in quality between 14 bit and 16 bit resulted in my promptly selling the whole system.

Now I have to admit that there is a vast array of beautiful work being done by many photographers using Canon and pre-D800 Nikon equipment.
My hat is off to all of them and many of their works I personally admire.  Now with the advent of the D800, WOW, what a great cost effective way to advance the image quality of all photographers choosing to shoot SLR, and what a challenge to Canon to step up their game.

Time now has forced me to have to learn how to get the results so many others have beautifully demonstrated on SLR gear.

Jack

  
Title: Re: To leave Hasselblad H4D 50?
Post by: ErikKaffehr on May 08, 2013, 09:15:02 am
Hi,

Regarding the advantage of 16 bit over 14 bit I am pretty sure it is myth, as the signal from the CCD-s used on MFDBs has about four bits of noise. Maximum signal is about 60000 electrons and readout noise is around 16 electrons that is about 12 bits of signal bandwidth.

Obviously, MF has an advantage of size. A smaller sensor need much better technology to keep up with a larger sensor.

On the lens front some Nikon lenses are very good, and Zeiss seems to develop some leading edge designs, but good lenses for DSLRs tend to be big and heavy.

Best regards
Erik

Couple that with the delta in quality between 14 bit and 16 bit resulted in my promptly selling the whole system.

 
Title: Re: To leave Hasselblad H4D 50?
Post by: jerome_m on May 08, 2013, 09:27:46 am
My point is that we should not be not discussing the cameras in a vacuum. Taken alone, the D800 and H4D-50 may be similar. But Jack is not using his camera without a lens. His line of business appears to be dependent on delivering very high resolution prints of landscape and architecture taken with a wide-angle lens, the HCD 28.

We can discuss dynamic range or shadows till the end of time, but the limiting factor here is that there is no 20mm lens to be put in front of the D800 which will give the same level of IQ across the frame than the HCD 28mm on the H4D. And the best 20mm for the D800 weight a ton, so the objective of saving on weight would not be met.
Title: Re: To leave Hasselblad H4D 50?
Post by: Doug Peterson on May 08, 2013, 10:26:47 am
I always love reading about reading about an evaluation of "Phase One" image quality based on a few months with a P25+ from six years ago which was based on a sensor released ten years ago. 

This is like making comments today about "Nikon quality" based on using a Nikon D70s for a few months.

Even so I'd still take a P25+ on a tech camera vs. a D800 except where very high ISO, video, or fast shooting speed is preferred. The quality of lenses cannot be matched and with a Schneider wide the kit size/weight is comparable to a nikon kit.

To the OP: I don't think you could possibly do better than an M8 or M9 (budget dependent). Wonderful image quality, incredibly small pack size/weight, enjoyable to use. A tech camera kit would be a good alternative but it's additional weight would be hard to recommend based on your specific situation, and you'd probably want to switch to a digital back that has it's own battery which would stretch your budget.
Title: Re: To leave Hasselblad H4D 50?
Post by: Doug Peterson on May 08, 2013, 10:29:42 am
Regarding the advantage of 16 bit over 14 bit I am pretty sure it is myth, as the signal from the CCD-s used on MFDBs has about four bits of noise. Maximum signal is about 60000 electrons and readout noise is around 16 electrons that is about 12 bits of signal bandwidth.

Numbers and electronics terms aside the poster is saying he has found an advantage in the color and tonal rendering; the specific technological underpinnings of this are relatively unimportant (except to engineers looking to improve them).
Title: Re: To leave Hasselblad H4D 50?
Post by: Guy Mancuso on May 08, 2013, 12:17:55 pm
My point is that we should not be not discussing the cameras in a vacuum. Taken alone, the D800 and H4D-50 may be similar. But Jack is not using his camera without a lens. His line of business appears to be dependent on delivering very high resolution prints of landscape and architecture taken with a wide-angle lens, the HCD 28.

We can discuss dynamic range or shadows till the end of time, but the limiting factor here is that there is no 20mm lens to be put in front of the D800 which will give the same level of IQ across the frame than the HCD 28mm on the H4D. And the best 20mm for the D800 weight a ton, so the objective of saving on weight would not be met.

+1 I have done a lot of testing between my IQ 160 and IQ 140 with a tech cam and the Rodie 28 and Schneider 60mm XL against the Nikons and the tech cam wins on every level. Bottom line if you want to meet or exceed what your getting today with your Hassy 50 and 28mm than keep your back get a small Alpa TC or Cambo compact and a Rodie 28mm. It's still a small system that will punch holes into anything. I shoot the Nikon daily and its a nice system but if you want the best glass for it it will be big and heavy and still will not beat your Hassy 28 with that back. If your trying to save money sure the Nikon is a nice choice but you get what you pay for not the quality of a tech cam and 28 Rodie nor your setup today. Again its your money and you need to decide if its worth the extra costs or not but don't expect a cheaper system will meet what you have today, it will not and one should not expect it too either. If I had life my way I would still have a tech cam and back and a Leica M system but I'm a working Pro and my choices don't always match my clients needs to get there job done. If I was ONLY a landscape shooter than tech cam all the way. They just rock and are fun to shoot.

You need real help contact me offline. I no longer participate here but always willing to help someone make the right choices on there needs.
Title: Re: To leave Hasselblad H4D 50?
Post by: RVB on May 08, 2013, 02:14:11 pm
I figured this would help,I shot these just half an hour ago,the intention to give an idea of the different quality of each system.. the focus may not be perfect but it looks ok to my eyes (FWIW),the light was falling fast so exposures vary a little..

https://www.yousendit.com/download/UVJoK2VzNnlTSUExZXNUQw (https://www.yousendit.com/download/UVJoK2VzNnlTSUExZXNUQw)
Title: Re: To leave Hasselblad H4D 50?
Post by: TMARK on May 08, 2013, 02:46:12 pm

Has anyone contrasted the Leica M9 or Leica S2 with with the Nikon D800-E?

I've done the M9/M/MM comparo with the D800e.  They all look different. 

The M9 versus D800e:  The Nikon has more depth to the file, almost like negative film.  More resolution than I need.  Weighs nothing but is bulky.  No complaints with resolution.  Took me a while to find a workflow I like for color.  Brilliant B&W camera.  Really chaulky blacks and grays.  A maliable file.  The raws are "thick", like a negative with lots of density.

The M9 has a more fragile file, meaning less headroom, limited shadow recovery.  Beautiful color from LR4 and C1-7.  It is so small and light, I can fit an entire kit in jacket pockets (35 summicron, 28 elmarit, two batteries, charger, and a body).  Resolution is much better than one would expect from 18mpx, and in fact enlarges rather well.  The raws aren't TOO sharp but the acuity is there. 

New M:  See comments for the D800.  Very similar file.  Color is different than the 800e.

MM:  better than the D800 for B&W, maybe.  Really an amazing file.  You can mimic almost any emulsion with the MM in post.  I am shocked at how close (or identical, almost) to TMax it can get.

S2:  I've handled one a few times, looked at lots of files.  The files are, to my eye, very similar to D800 files, but have a different look to them.  Lenses are better.  handles better than a D800.  GREAT viewfinder.

I'm sure you will try them all out to find what works for you, in terms of weight.  I think they all make quality images. 

Title: Re: To leave Hasselblad H4D 50?
Post by: RVB on May 08, 2013, 03:21:08 pm
I've done the M9/M/MM comparo with the D800e.  They all look different. 

The M9 versus D800e:  The Nikon has more depth to the file, almost like negative film.  More resolution than I need.  Weighs nothing but is bulky.  No complaints with resolution.  Took me a while to find a workflow I like for color.  Brilliant B&W camera.  Really chaulky blacks and grays.  A maliable file.  The raws are "thick", like a negative with lots of density.

The M9 has a more fragile file, meaning less headroom, limited shadow recovery.  Beautiful color from LR4 and C1-7.  It is so small and light, I can fit an entire kit in jacket pockets (35 summicron, 28 elmarit, two batteries, charger, and a body).  Resolution is much better than one would expect from 18mpx, and in fact enlarges rather well.  The raws aren't TOO sharp but the acuity is there. 

New M:  See comments for the D800.  Very similar file.  Color is different than the 800e.

MM:  better than the D800 for B&W, maybe.  Really an amazing file.  You can mimic almost any emulsion with the MM in post.  I am shocked at how close (or identical, almost) to TMax it can get.

S2:  I've handled one a few times, looked at lots of files.  The files are, to my eye, very similar to D800 files, but have a different look to them.  Lenses are better.  handles better than a D800.  GREAT viewfinder.

I'm sure you will try them all out to find what works for you, in terms of weight.  I think they all make quality images. 



The large viewfinder of the S/S2 and H4D are important points,these viewfinders are huge compared to canon or nikon and a pleasure to use..
Title: Re: To leave Hasselblad H4D 50?
Post by: ErikKaffehr on May 08, 2013, 03:22:54 pm
Hi,

More important in my view. The OP wants to replace MF DSLR with a smaller option, my guess is that he is willing to live with say 24x36 but APS-c or 4/3 is nothing he would regard. He also expressively ruled out technical cameras. I would suggest that it is important that he choses the compromises he makes based on realities and not marketing figures.

Regarding the color issue, I would say it is problematic. For one, anyone using a camera/raw converter is familiarised with the color rendition of that combo. Switching to another combo will be an effort. It may be that there are rendition differences that are hard to overcome, the best way to find out is probably to rent equipment and test.

It is my understanding that the OP is very satisfied with his present equipment, except for the weight. He also shoots the way that MFD has best advantage, that sets the ribbon at some height.

Best regards
Erik

Numbers and electronics terms aside the poster is saying he has found an advantage in the color and tonal rendering; the specific technological underpinnings of this are relatively unimportant (except to engineers looking to improve them).
Title: Re: To leave Hasselblad H4D 50?
Post by: FredBGG on May 08, 2013, 04:25:41 pm
Fred,

What a kind gesture!!
Thank you!

I'm studying your images and appreciating the D800 even more.

Just said to my wife/AKA "Serpa of High Priced Camera Gear" that I must get out and test the
concept of my carrying the H4D with the 80 and she carrying the 28, HTS and Tripod.

I'm hoping to get a few more walks in with this configuration but this weekends test will tell.

Again, a big Thank You for the kindness and time you spent to share.

Jack

Hi Jack

I think keeping your Hasselblad is a good move.
What you use to transport it and support it can make a big difference.

A few things that can help.

This tripod is really nice as far as transporting it goes.

(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7303/8720492493_8742a946b5_c.jpg)

(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7302/8721612062_7f6de37e2f_c.jpg)

The way it folds down to a nice flat shape and the fact that it's very light
makes it nice to transport and it sits comfortably on the side of the body.
Used with the right ball head it makes for a good travel tripod.
It's not rock solid rigid, but using the mirror up function of the Hasselblad it's just fine.

For the cameras if you get "just the right size" fanny packs that you can wear on the hips
I think you will feel the weight of the Hasselblad much less. One fanny pack for the camera and one for the
other lens and HTS.

I have one of these that I use with the d800 and 70-200. You'll need a smaller one.

(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7305/8720489757_655f409da7_c.jpg)

They sit nicely on the small of the back and actually offer some support.

This one has a nice double strap that makes the pack sit nice and flat
and allows me to turn it around to the front for access.

(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7387/8721615128_61b5b0fdc6_c.jpg)

They make loads of different sizes of these. I think that with the right hip packs you will
be moving around better. Just keeping hands free to move as you walk and centering any carried load
should help you significantly.

I also think that getting a high IQ compact such as the Sigma Merrill for those days when you don't feel up to carrying the Hasselblad,
rather than "losing the Hasselblad.
I also think that keeping the challenge of getting around with the Hasselblad will encourage you to "keep on trucking".
Title: Re: To leave Hasselblad H4D 50?
Post by: ErikKaffehr on May 08, 2013, 04:33:05 pm
Hi,

I am sure Fred appreciates the feedback!

Regarding the options you have, I just hope that you find somethings that works out fine!

Best regards
Erik

Fred,

What a kind gesture!!
Thank you!

I'm studying your images and appreciating the D800 even more.

Just said to my wife/AKA "Serpa of High Priced Camera Gear" that I must get out and test the
concept of my carrying the H4D with the 80 and she carrying the 28, HTS and Tripod.

I'm hoping to get a few more walks in with this configuration but this weekends test will tell.

Again, a big Thank You for the kindness and time you spent to share.

Jack
Title: Re: To leave Hasselblad H4D 50?
Post by: bcooter on May 09, 2013, 02:50:01 am
I'm not trying to go off topic here, because I think this has some relevance.

Lately I've been looking at 4/3's cameras for video secondary cams and to fit in small areas.  Doing this I also looked at their still still quality and it's pretty good.  Not 80mpx mfd, or 30mpx 35mm but still very good for such a small sensor.

The one thing that strikes me is where cameras are going.   If you ever tried the Panasonic touch screen focus on the gh3 I think you'd be amazed, I know I was.  Even in low light it locked and tracked as well as my35mm cameras.

I did a video test touch screen racking from subject to subject and in video mode it looks like professional focus pull.  Really surprising;

This along with dedicated wi-fi to computers or ipads, with our without an adhoc network, smaller sharper lenses, faster frame rates and it's possible camera tech is not leveled out, it's just beginning.

I know if the Olympus or Pansonic mft's cameras had just a little more detail, they would probably be perfect for the op.

Also in stills they shoot a native 4:3 format just like his Hasselblad.


IMO

BC
Title: Re: To leave Hasselblad H4D 50?
Post by: ErikKaffehr on May 09, 2013, 03:50:42 am
Hi,

I absolutely agree with James. My take is that DSLR-s with big lenses are still heavy. The only small full frame 135 option is really the Leica, but I guess the smaller formats can be attractive. But, there is a but, a larger sensor gives better image quality all other factors being similar.

Best regards
Erik


I'm not trying to go off topic here, because I think this has some relevance.

Lately I've been looking at 4/3's cameras for video secondary cams and to fit in small areas.  Doing this I also looked at their still still quality and it's pretty good.  Not 80mpx mfd, or 30mpx 35mm but still very good for such a small sensor.

The one thing that strikes me is where cameras are going.   If you ever tried the Panasonic touch screen focus on the gh3 I think you'd be amazed, I know I was.  Even in low light it locked and tracked as well as my35mm cameras.

I did a video test touch screen racking from subject to subject and in video mode it looks like professional focus pull.  Really surprising;

This along with dedicated wi-fi to computers or ipads, with our without an adhoc network, smaller sharper lenses, faster frame rates and it's possible camera tech is not leveled out, it's just beginning.

I know if the Olympus or Pansonic mft's cameras had just a little more detail, they would probably be perfect for the op.

Also in stills they shoot a native 4:3 format just like his Hasselblad.


IMO

BC
Title: Re: To leave Hasselblad H4D 50? Regarding color rendition.
Post by: ErikKaffehr on May 09, 2013, 03:56:58 am
Hi,

A lot of the color rendition depends on the raw processor and it's color profiles.

I made a small experiment with same image processed by Camer Raw and LR4. With LR 4 I used different profiles, Adobe Standard, profile generated by DNG Editor and ColorChecker Passport and also one of Adobe "Camera Profiles". It's presented here as an animated gif, far from ideal. A PDF version is here: http://echophoto.dnsalias.net/ekr/Articles/Color_profiles/Movie/ColorProfiles.pdf .

(http://echophoto.dnsalias.net/ekr/Articles/Color_profiles/Movie/ColorProfiles.gif)

Check the green of the grass and the blue of the foreground flowers.

I will try to improve the samples, if I have the time.

Best regards
Erik


Title: Re: To leave Hasselblad H4D 50?
Post by: FredBGG on May 09, 2013, 10:15:13 am
Very nice Erick.  Thanks for going to the trouble to make this test.
Perfect illustration of what I have been getting at before.
Sensors, both MF and the best 35mm dslr, have reached very high quality levels
and it's more about color profiling and processing if you are using these sensors.
Then there is the whole area of color grading (term taken from motion picture) and color or B+W
stylizing.

Erick... I opened the pdf and the C1 image is small compared to the others... just thought I'd let you know.

It's also interesting to see how richer the passport checker and DNG profile editor are compared to the C1.

I think it's safe to say that great sensor quality determines technically high IQ, but the look is by far more determined by
the profiles and custom look profiles. After that color grading/styling and effects being even more important for much of the
more artsy world.
Title: Re: To leave Hasselblad H4D 50?
Post by: ErikKaffehr on May 09, 2013, 10:57:14 am
Hi Fred,

I am not familiar with Capture One, although I have a paid for version. I just used same exposure correction in WB (by the numbers) as on LR 4.4.



I may try to redo the PDF, I'm just going for five weeks of travel (leisure) so I am a bit stressed.

Best regards
Erik



Very nice Erick.  Thanks for going to the trouble to make this test.
Perfect illustration of what I have been getting at before.
Sensors, both MF and the best 35mm dslr, have reached very high quality levels
and it's more about color profiling and processing if you are using these sensors.
Then there is the whole area of color grading (term taken from motion picture) and color or B+W
stylizing.

Erick... I opened the pdf and the C1 image is small compared to the others... just thought I'd let you know.

It's also interesting to see how richer the passport checker and DNG profile editor are compared to the C1.
Title: Re: To leave Hasselblad H4D 50?
Post by: FredBGG on May 11, 2013, 08:19:59 am

We can discuss dynamic range or shadows till the end of time, but the limiting factor here is that there is no 20mm lens to be put in front of the D800 which will give the same level of IQ across the frame than the HCD 28mm on the H4D. And the best 20mm for the D800 weight a ton, so the objective of saving on weight would not be met.

Lets look at the weight difference first:

Hasselblad H4D-50 plus 28mm
2,650g

Nikon D800E and Carl Zeiss 21mm
1,600g

That puts the Hasselblad at 65% heavier.

I think it is safe to say that if someone has muscular problems it's a very significant gain for handling.

80mm Hasselblad vs 50mm Nikon 1.4

475g vs 281g.... Hasselblad 69% heavier.

Corner image quality of the Zeiss 21mm

(http://media.the-digital-picture.com/Images/Lens-Tests/ISO-12233/Zeiss-21mm-Distagon-f-2.8-ZE-Lens/Crop3/2010-12-02_09-05-34.jpg)

Nikon 50mm 1.4G cornar image quality:
(http://media.the-digital-picture.com/Images/Lens-Tests/ISO-12233/Nikon-50mm-f-1.4G-AF-S-Lens/Crop3/2009-10-23_15-38-42.jpg)
Title: Re: To leave Hasselblad H4D 50?
Post by: Lust4Life on May 11, 2013, 09:01:06 am
Fred,

You are on the same page I am - weight as a trade off to image quality.
At this point, the D800E is my main focus - Looks like it's array is quite adequate.
Key will be mating that to the best quality lens that is not raising the weight combination
to the level of the Hassie.

Jack




Lets look at the weight difference first:

Hasselblad H4D-50 plus 28mm
2,650g

Nikon D800E and Carl Zeiss 21mm
1,600g

That puts the Hasselblad at 65% heavier.

I think it is safe to say that if someone has muscular problems it's a very significant gain for handling.

80mm Hasselblad vs 50mm Nikon 1.4

475g vs 281g.... Hasselblad 69% heavier.

Corner image quality of the Zeiss 21mm

(http://media.the-digital-picture.com/Images/Lens-Tests/ISO-12233/Zeiss-21mm-Distagon-f-2.8-ZE-Lens/Crop3/2010-12-02_09-05-34.jpg)

Nikon 50mm 1.4G cornar image quality:
(http://media.the-digital-picture.com/Images/Lens-Tests/ISO-12233/Nikon-50mm-f-1.4G-AF-S-Lens/Crop3/2009-10-23_15-38-42.jpg)

Title: Re: To leave Hasselblad H4D 50?
Post by: ErikKaffehr on May 11, 2013, 09:52:20 am
Hi,

Tim Ashley has some good writing on the lenses, he used to have an IQ180 so I presume he knows some stuff.

Erik
http://tashley1.zenfolio.com/blog/2013/3/dxo-mark-lenses-on-d800---my-real-world-response


Fred,

You are on the same page I am - weight as a trade off to image quality.
At this point, the D800E is my main focus - Looks like it's array is quite adequate.
Key will be mating that to the best quality lens that is not raising the weight combination
to the level of the Hassie.

Jack




Title: Re: To leave Hasselblad H4D 50?
Post by: RVB on May 11, 2013, 10:07:44 am
Jack,I own a D800E and a Zeiss 15mm and have had a Zeiss 21mm,I also have the 24mm 1.4G,35mm 1.4G,84mm 1.4G and it's a damn good camera,But of you are used to a h4D-50 with a HCD 28mm then you will be stepping down in IQ... the main benefit to you will be weight loss...  Try a D800e out first before you commit to it..

best

Rob
Title: Re: To leave Hasselblad H4D 50?
Post by: FredBGG on May 11, 2013, 10:16:08 am
I figured this would help,I shot these just half an hour ago,the intention to give an idea of the different quality of each system.. the focus may not be perfect but it looks ok to my eyes (FWIW),the light was falling fast so exposures vary a little..

https://www.yousendit.com/download/UVJoK2VzNnlTSUExZXNUQw (https://www.yousendit.com/download/UVJoK2VzNnlTSUExZXNUQw)

Here's a closer look at these files:

Crops from RVB's test shots.

(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7282/8728936242_ae8e595882_o.gif)

(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7307/8728937602_42a023db34_o.gif)

ORRECTION: The frames labled Hassy/Fuji are Leica S2/Leica Elmarit

Exposure adjusted.

ACR Zeiss profile applied with no distortion or vignetting correction.

I think it should be reassuring to that with the strong gains in IQ is 35mm DSLRs
that moving to a significantly lighter camera with not have a significant impact on image quality
with the exception of very large enlargements made with a tech camera setup.

MF DSLR to 35mm DSLR today is not that big of a difference.

Best thing is that the much lower prices of 35mm DSLR may mean that Jack can keep both
the Hasselblad and add the Nikon as a second option.
Title: Re: To leave Hasselblad H4D 50?
Post by: RVB on May 11, 2013, 11:18:16 am
The best way to look at these file's is download the raws from the link and view them in a raw converter,the Blad and nikon file's can be compared in Phocus,when the Blad file is sharpened it is very detailed.. imho more than the nef. I used the protein powder bag as a focus reference ..
Title: Re: To leave Hasselblad H4D 50?
Post by: FredBGG on May 11, 2013, 11:26:05 am
The Nikon D800e and the Zeiss 21mm are available for rent from www.lensrental.com

5 days
D800E $133
Zeiss 21mm $68

$ 231 with 5 day round trip shipping.

They have a rent to try deal where they will discount the rent to a sale of Zeiss lenses.

Title: Re: To leave Hasselblad H4D 50?
Post by: FredBGG on May 11, 2013, 11:31:29 am
The best way to look at these file's is download the raws from the link and view them in a raw converter,the Blad and nikon file's can be compared in Phocus,when the Blad file is sharpened it is very detailed.. imho more than the nef. I used the protein powder bag as a focus reference ..

How did you make the DNG for the Hasselblad file?
Title: Re: To leave Hasselblad H4D 50?
Post by: jerome_m on May 11, 2013, 11:49:34 am
Here's a closer look at these files:

Crops from RVB's test shots.

(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7282/8728936242_ae8e595882_o.gif)

(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7307/8728937602_42a023db34_o.gif)

Exposure adjusted.

ACR Zeiss profile applied with no distortion or vignetting correction.

I won't do animated comparison, just crop from the raw file with no correction and a bit away from the center:

Title: Re: To leave Hasselblad H4D 50?
Post by: ErikKaffehr on May 11, 2013, 12:29:49 pm
Hi,

What lenses do you compare and which raw processor? Is it full aperture or best aperture? I see a lot of chroma in the Nikon shot. Axial chroma is hard, but lateral chroma should be handled in raw processing.

What sharpening parameters are use dor each image?

Best regards
Erik


I won't do animated comparison, just crop from the raw file with no correction and a bit away from the center:


Title: Re: To leave Hasselblad H4D 50?
Post by: FredBGG on May 11, 2013, 12:40:16 pm
Phocus automatically applies DAC.
In ACR you just have to turn it on.
Title: Re: To leave Hasselblad H4D 50?
Post by: RVB on May 11, 2013, 01:43:43 pm
Hi,

What lenses do you compare and which raw processor? Is it full aperture or best aperture? I see a lot of chroma in the Nikon shot. Axial chroma is hard, but lateral chroma should be handled in raw processing.

What sharpening parameters are use dor each image?

Best regards
Erik

Erik,it's a Carl Zeiss 15mm  on the D800e and a HCD28mm on the H4D50.. I posted the link to the files in the previous page.. It's a yousend it link...

Title: Re: To leave Hasselblad H4D 50?
Post by: FredBGG on May 11, 2013, 02:42:15 pm
I won't do animated comparison, just crop from the raw file with no correction and a bit away from the center:



Same area, but processed Nikon file with ACR lens profile turned on and corrected for exposure difference.

(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7449/8728502109_2aab41bfd6_o.gif)
Title: Re: To leave Hasselblad H4D 50?
Post by: jerome_m on May 11, 2013, 03:46:20 pm
My comparison was without lens corrections for both pictures. You will notice that the chromatic aberration is much better contained for the HCD 28 than for the Zeiss lens.

On your comparison, which tries to level the playfield by reducing the resolution of the H4D-50 to the lower one of the D800, the interested reader will notice that the fine details are better resolved on the H4D (e.g. the text on the Macbook Air).

Quite simply, the HCD 28 is a better lens than the Zeiss. I have the pleasure to own that lens. I am absolutely stunned by its level of excellence. The Leica 24mm is even better, as also apparent from the posted files, but is limited by the relatively low resolution of the Leica S.
Title: Re: To leave Hasselblad H4D 50?
Post by: RVB on May 11, 2013, 03:53:37 pm
My comparison was without lens corrections for both pictures. You will notice that the chromatic aberration is much better contained for the HCD 28 than for the Zeiss lens.

On your comparison, which tries to level the playfield by reducing the resolution of the H4D-50 to the lower one of the D800, the interested reader will notice that the fine details are better resolved on the H4D (e.g. the text on the Macbook Air).

Quite simply, the HCD 28 is a better lens than the Zeiss. I have the pleasure to own that lens. I am absolutely stunned by its level of excellence. The Leica 24mm is even better, as also apparent from the posted files, but is limited by the relatively low resolution of the Leica S.

I fully agree with this,the HCD and Leica are better color corrected and render more detail over the frame.. I own the Zeiss and HCD so have no axe to grind,the nikon is a great camera and Zeiss lenses are very good but the medium format camera's still render more detail...
Title: Re: To leave Hasselblad H4D 50?
Post by: RVB on May 11, 2013, 03:59:33 pm
How did you make the DNG for the Hasselblad file?

Fred,in Phocus you can export as DNG,this option only applies to Hasselblad raw's...
Title: Re: To leave Hasselblad H4D 50?
Post by: FredBGG on May 11, 2013, 04:25:09 pm
My comparison was without lens corrections for both pictures. You will notice that the chromatic aberration is much better contained for the HCD 28 than for the Zeiss lens.

On your comparison, which tries to level the playfield by reducing the resolution of the H4D-50 to the lower one of the D800, the interested reader will notice that the fine details are better resolved on the H4D (e.g. the text on the Macbook Air).

Quite simply, the HCD 28 is a better lens than the Zeiss. I have the pleasure to own that lens. I am absolutely stunned by its level of excellence. The Leica 24mm is even better, as also apparent from the posted files, but is limited by the relatively low resolution of the Leica S.

The image is a Leica file. s far as the scaling to overlay the two images it is to put the same crop on the subject onto the same screen area.
It scaled down from 100% to 85% so it's a very small 15% down sampling. We also all know that the down sampling helps make n image look better, not worse. Overlaid they look virtually the same. Also it's not really leveling the playing field, because the framings are different. In the Nikon shot the subject is much smaller with a wider angle of view. I'm sure that if the two were framed with a much closer composition the difference would be even smaller as the Leica is 37.5MP and the Nikon is 36MP. Only 1.5 MP difference.

I fully agree with this,the HCD and Leica are better color corrected and render more detail over the frame.. I own the Zeiss and HCD so have no axe to grind,the nikon is a great camera and Zeiss lenses are very good but the medium format camera's still render more detail...

I have no axe to grind on this issue either. Simply giving the OP some realistic advice.

Yes the Leica lens has better CA in the corners, but it is very well correctable on the Zeiss as it is corrected by Hasselblad on some of their lenses with automatic DAC.

The truth of the matter is that the difference in the real world is today far far smaller than it was before the Nikon D800 came out.

Put it this way. The Leica S@ and lens is really really really good while Nikon and Zeiss 21mm is really really good.

IF you are going to print very large and observe the prints very close you will see the difference, but it's not huge.

Here is a comparison between the D800E with a ts 24mm and the Phase One IQ180 with a schneider digitar lens on a tech camera.
Test done by an IQ180 owner.

http://www.circleofconfusion.ie/d800e-vs-phase-one-iq180/ (http://www.circleofconfusion.ie/d800e-vs-phase-one-iq180/)

Quote
At 30×20 inches, you can see subtle but clear differences between the IQ180 and the D800E. Not all of them weighted in favour of the medium format camera, though. For instance, the D800E produced much more pleasing shadow areas on the prints of the photographs produced to test dynamic range.

Resolution and detail of the IQ180 prints was better than that of the D800E prints – but not massively. Again, the difference was there, but it wasn’t huge. Certainly not €30,000 huge.

And we were stunned just how close the D800E ran the IQ180 when the files were printed at 60×40 inches, which is bigger than many dining room tables.

Put simply, Nikon has produced a phenomenal camera.


Jack can rent the D800e and lens and see how it works out both IQ wise and weight/ergonomics wise.
Title: Re: To leave Hasselblad H4D 50?
Post by: RVB on May 11, 2013, 04:35:31 pm
The image is a Leica file. s far as the scaling to overlay the two images it is to put the same crop on the subject onto the same screen area.
It scaled down from 100% to 85% so it's a very small 15% down sampling. We also all know that the down sampling helps make n image look better, not worse. Overlaid they look virtually the same. Also it's not really leveling the playing field, because the framings are different. In the Nikon shot the subject is much smaller with a wider angle of view. I'm sure that if the two were framed with a much closer composition the difference would be even smaller as the Leica is 37.5MP and the Nikon is 36MP. Only 1.5 MP difference.

I have no axe to grind on this issue either. Simply giving the OP some realistic advice.

Yes the Leica lens has better CA in the corners, but it is very well correctable on the Zeiss as it is corrected by Hasselblad on some of their lenses with automatic DAC.

The truth of the matter is that the difference in the real world is today far far smaller than it was before the Nikon D800 came out.

Put it this way. The Leica S@ and lens is really really really good while Nikon and Zeiss 21mm is really really good.

IF you are going to print very large and observe the prints very close you will see the difference, but it's not huge.

Here is a comparison between the D800E with a ts 24mm and the Phase One IQ180 with a schneider digitar lens on a tech camera.
Test done by an IQ180 owner.

http://www.circleofconfusion.ie/d800e-vs-phase-one-iq180/ (http://www.circleofconfusion.ie/d800e-vs-phase-one-iq180/)


Jack can rent the D800e and lens and see how it works out both IQ wise and weight/ergonomics wise.

It might be worth considering the S/S2 with a S24mm or S30mm lens.. the S camera is only 200grams heavier than the D800,the lens is heavy but worth the effort,S2's can be picked up at good price's now,and they are weather sealed and also have the same big bright viewfinder as the H camera..
Title: Re: To leave Hasselblad H4D 50?
Post by: Lust4Life on May 11, 2013, 05:05:42 pm
Please define what you have seen as a "good price" for the S2?

Jack
Title: Re: To leave Hasselblad H4D 50?
Post by: Ed Foster, Jr. on May 11, 2013, 07:43:07 pm
I fully agree with this,the HCD and Leica are better color corrected and render more detail over the frame.. I own the Zeiss and HCD so have no axe to grind,the nikon is a great camera and Zeiss lenses are very good but the medium format camera's still render more detail...
Those are my exact conclusions after my own hands-on comparisons that I'm conducting and will be continuing over the next 3-4 days. I've used Nikons since the F1 in the late 60's and continue to use them today for most PJ work, so I've not axe to grind either. But, I've yet to obtain as good of files with the D800 as I do with the Hasselblads.

What with all the hype though about the D800, I have been wondering if my choice of WA zoom obtained around 2002, was just not up to snuff for the D800, so I'm looking into some new lenses and have rented a Nikkor 14-24mm f/ 2.8 AFS ED and Zeiss 21mm f/ 2.8 ZF2 to test against my go-to Nikkor 17-35mm f/2.8 AFS ED. I thought I may as well toss my H4D-31 and HCD 28mm into the equation for fun.

This was my first test today - slightly overcast - testing sharpness near the edge. The D800 images were all exposed at 160 sec. @ f/ 5.6 at ISO 100 and were focused with 100% Live View manually - which I would not normally use - as opposed to my normal auto focus or manual focus. The Hasselblad shot was focused manually in the viewfinder and was exposed at 1/125 second at f/ 5.6 at ISO 100.

All files are as converted with only auto lens corrections and slight WB adjustment and the same amount of capture sharpening using PhotoKit. The raw Nikon files were converted with the latest version of ACR and the raw Hasselblad file was converted with Phocus.
The D800's were processed in the latest version of ACR with only auto lens correction and WB, but no other adjustments. The Hasselblad exposure was 125 sec. at f/ 5.6 and was processed in Phocus with WB and lens corrections only. All files were given a capture sharpening with PhotoKit Capture Sharpening.

At the moment, I am not seeing appreciable difference in the three lenses on the D800, and still believe the HCD 28 is a superb lens. Over the next three to four days, I plan to continue testing lenses.

Here are the results:

(http://www.edfoster.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Zeiss_21mm_EJF2716.jpg)

(http://www.edfoster.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/nikon_17-35_edge.jpg)

(http://www.edfoster.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/nikon_14-24_edge.jpg)

(http://www.edfoster.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/nikon_zeiss_21_edge.jpg)

(http://www.edfoster.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/hasselblad_edge.jpg)

Ed

PS - Please, please don't convert to animated gifs, anyone, if I had wanted to, I could've done that myself.



Title: Re: To leave Hasselblad H4D 50?
Post by: RVB on May 11, 2013, 11:18:47 pm
Please define what you have seen as a "good price" for the S2?

Jack

I have seen them at $10k with very low actuation's and like new.... here is one in Germany for an asking price of 8600euro's,my dealer in the UK has offered my one with just over 1000clicks for 8500euro's... and another on GETDPI,(I'm sure you could get it cheaper.. )
http://photography.forumsee.com/a/m/s/p12-21375-0167849--for-sale-germany-leica-body.html (http://photography.forumsee.com/a/m/s/p12-21375-0167849--for-sale-germany-leica-body.html)

http://www.getdpi.com/forum/gear-fs-wtb/45380-leica-s2-w-warranty.html (http://www.getdpi.com/forum/gear-fs-wtb/45380-leica-s2-w-warranty.html)
Title: Re: To leave Hasselblad H4D 50?
Post by: RVB on May 11, 2013, 11:26:29 pm
Those are my exact conclusions after my own hands-on comparisons that I'm conducting and will be continuing over the next 3-4 days. I've used Nikons since the F1 in the late 60's and continue to use them today for most PJ work, so I've not axe to grind either. But, I've yet to obtain as good of files with the D800 as I do with the Hasselblads.

What with all the hype though about the D800, I have been wondering if my choice of WA zoom obtained around 2002, was just not up to snuff for the D800, so I'm looking into some new lenses and have rented a Nikkor 14-24mm f/ 2.8 AFS ED and Zeiss 21mm f/ 2.8 ZF2 to test against my go-to Nikkor 17-35mm f/2.8 AFS ED. I thought I may as well toss my H4D-31 and HCD 28mm into the equation for fun.

This was my first test today - slightly overcast - testing sharpness near the edge. The D800 images were all exposed at 160 sec. @ f/ 5.6 at ISO 100 and were focused with 100% Live View manually - which I would not normally use - as opposed to my normal auto focus or manual focus. The Hasselblad shot was focused manually in the viewfinder and was exposed at 1/125 second at f/ 5.6 at ISO 100.

All files are as converted with only auto lens corrections and slight WB adjustment and the same amount of capture sharpening using PhotoKit. The raw Nikon files were converted with the latest version of ACR and the raw Hasselblad file was converted with Phocus.
The D800's were processed in the latest version of ACR with only auto lens correction and WB, but no other adjustments. The Hasselblad exposure was 125 sec. at f/ 5.6 and was processed in Phocus with WB and lens corrections only. All files were given a capture sharpening with PhotoKit Capture Sharpening.

At the moment, I am not seeing appreciable difference in the three lenses on the D800, and still believe the HCD 28 is a superb lens. Over the next three to four days, I plan to continue testing lenses.

Here are the results:

(http://www.edfoster.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Zeiss_21mm_EJF2716.jpg)

(http://www.edfoster.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/nikon_17-35_edge.jpg)

(http://www.edfoster.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/nikon_14-24_edge.jpg)

(http://www.edfoster.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/nikon_zeiss_21_edge.jpg)

(http://www.edfoster.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/hasselblad_edge.jpg)

Ed

PS - Please, please don't convert to animated gifs, anyone, if I had wanted to, I could've done that myself.





HCD easily looks the best here and this is with a 31MP H?Nikkor 17-35 seems to beat the Zeiss and 14-24
Title: Re: To leave Hasselblad H4D 50?
Post by: ErikKaffehr on May 12, 2013, 01:36:05 am
Hi,

Thanks for the samples, seems to be a good and careful test. They look very similar on my iPad. Hopefully, I can have a better look later. I would try to use LR 4 instead of Phocus. Just as an example, Phocus certainly eliminates lateral color fringing while LR 4 needs a checkbox, even with lens profiles. Both programs may apply different amount of sharpening.

Best regards
Erik

Those are my exact conclusions after my own hands-on comparisons that I'm conducting and will be continuing over the next 3-4 days. I've used Nikons since the F1 in the late 60's and continue to use them today for most PJ work, so I've not axe to grind either. But, I've yet to obtain as good of files with the D800 as I do with the Hasselblads.

What with all the hype though about the D800, I have been wondering if my choice of WA zoom obtained around 2002, was just not up to snuff for the D800, so I'm looking into some new lenses and have rented a Nikkor 14-24mm f/ 2.8 AFS ED and Zeiss 21mm f/ 2.8 ZF2 to test against my go-to Nikkor 17-35mm f/2.8 AFS ED. I thought I may as well toss my H4D-31 and HCD 28mm into the equation for fun.

This was my first test today - slightly overcast - testing sharpness near the edge. The D800 images were all exposed at 160 sec. @ f/ 5.6 at ISO 100 and were focused with 100% Live View manually - which I would not normally use - as opposed to my normal auto focus or manual focus. The Hasselblad shot was focused manually in the viewfinder and was exposed at 1/125 second at f/ 5.6 at ISO 100.

All files are as converted with only auto lens corrections and slight WB adjustment and the same amount of capture sharpening using PhotoKit. The raw Nikon files were converted with the latest version of ACR and the raw Hasselblad file was converted with Phocus.
The D800's were processed in the latest version of ACR with only auto lens correction and WB, but no other adjustments. The Hasselblad exposure was 125 sec. at f/ 5.6 and was processed in Phocus with WB and lens corrections only. All files were given a capture sharpening with PhotoKit Capture Sharpening.

At the moment, I am not seeing appreciable difference in the three lenses on the D800, and still believe the HCD 28 is a superb lens. Over the next three to four days, I plan to continue testing lenses.

Here are the results:

(http://www.edfoster.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Zeiss_21mm_EJF2716.jpg)

(http://www.edfoster.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/nikon_17-35_edge.jpg)

(http://www.edfoster.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/nikon_14-24_edge.jpg)

(http://www.edfoster.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/nikon_zeiss_21_edge.jpg)

(http://www.edfoster.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/hasselblad_edge.jpg)

Ed

PS - Please, please don't convert to animated gifs, anyone, if I had wanted to, I could've done that myself.




Title: Re: To leave Hasselblad H4D 50?
Post by: JV on May 12, 2013, 01:56:48 am
At the moment, I am not seeing appreciable difference in the three lenses on the D800, and still believe the HCD 28 is a superb lens. Over the next three to four days, I plan to continue testing lenses.

The D800 is not even close...
Title: Re: To leave Hasselblad H4D 50?
Post by: HarperPhotos on May 12, 2013, 03:14:09 am
Hello JV,

If there wasn’t any brand names on these images you wouldn't be able to know what camera and lens it was. I conclude that you a Hasseblad fan boy.

Cheers

Simon
Title: Re: To leave Hasselblad H4D 50?
Post by: RVB on May 12, 2013, 03:45:22 am
I have to agree that the Blad is better..
Title: Re: To leave Hasselblad H4D 50?
Post by: jerome_m on May 12, 2013, 05:13:07 am
If there wasn’t any brand names on these images you wouldn't be able to know what camera and lens it was.

Indeed, at that size, the difference is not obvious. But we have files from RVB to see the difference between these cameras at their native resolution and, from these files, the Hasselblad system is clearly superior, if only by its higher resolution.

Now, it may well be that the level of IQ from the D800/Zeiss or Leica camera is sufficient to "lust4life". But the decision is not ours, but his.

As to weight:
H4D-50 + HCD 28mm: 2665g
Leica S2 + 24mm: 2660g
Nikon D800 + Zeiss 21mm: 1720g

Title: Re: To leave Hasselblad H4D 50?
Post by: Lust4Life on May 12, 2013, 06:41:21 am
I believe from reading this thread that from a pure technical perspective - the Hassie with 28mm wins.

But as the last post indicates, I have the problem of defining what is priority:
Simply put, the equation is: As weight increases, the ability to walk any distance decreases.

It's that simple.

Three days ago I had trouble walking 20 yards, and that was without carrying a camera.
Other days I can do substantially better, but not near what I used to do - run Marathons
and hike all over the planet with no issue on control of the legs.

A chap must learn to find this change in personal physical limits "entertaining" rather than
devastating.

What this tread has shown me to date is the Nikon D800 can do an acceptable job, while not
what I'm used to in image RAW data, but at a weight that will allow me to continue to gather images in
accessible areas - not distant hikes to waterfalls up steep hills.  Those days are gone even
without a camera.  Thus, I'm thankful that the D800 at 36.2MP and great Dmax is now in
the marketplace!

Like with many progressive neurological diseases, it is a downward slope you are
living on.  Thus I figure it will be a slow progression from the use of a Hassie AND Nikon D800, then gradually taking the Hassie out of the equation and going with D800 and Leica M.  Leica being the final tool
that will allow me continue to capture images.

Thus, at this point in the journey I think I will sell off my 50-110 lens as it is just too heavy, use the Hassie with 28 for very short (close to where the car is parked) scenes and buy a Nikon D800 with a wide angle
and short tele to use for scenes where I need to walk any appreciable distance to shoot it (and which
my wife could carry D800, a wide angle and my RRS carbon tripod with no problem).

I'm also finding it interesting to evaluate the need to move from Landscape photography, which in my experience does require hiking and stamina in your legs, to other areas of interest.  Yes, I'll still pursue landscape scenes as a "trunk photographer", but I think that focusing on
Abstracts, Architecture and possible Portraits will be a transition that I will have to shift my focus.

The transition will be "entertaining" to say the least.
Title: Re: To leave Hasselblad H4D 50?
Post by: Ed Foster, Jr. on May 12, 2013, 09:09:40 am
Hi,

Thanks for the samples, seems to be a good and careful test. They look very similar on my iPad. Hopefully, I can have a better look later. I would try to use LR 4 instead of Phocus. Just as an example, Phocus certainly eliminates lateral color fringing while LR 4 needs a checkbox, even with lens profiles. Both programs may apply different amount of sharpening.
Erik,
I don't employ LR, but use the latest version of Adobe Camera Raw (ACR) with all sharpening turned off and in Phocus, sharpening is elective, and was turned off as well. Once these files were opened in PS, I applied the same level of Capture Sharpening with PhotoKit Sharpener. That way I thought I would achieve relatively similar results.

Are not the raw converters in ACR and LR essentially the same? And, are you saying that both ACR and Phocus both apply some level of sharpening even when sharpening is turned off?

If that's the case, I can always covert the Hasselblad file in ACR as well and compare. I am trying for a real world comparison and not trying to fool myself. I too have a need to lighten the load, and would really luv to have the D800 and Zeiss combo be a winner (those two Nikkors I used are quite bulky).

Regards,
Ed


Title: Re: To leave Hasselblad H4D 50?
Post by: Ed Foster, Jr. on May 12, 2013, 09:27:32 am
Jack,
I understand well where you are coming from and admire your tenacity and determination. Your 5th paragraph rings well with me.

I just happened to be testing one of the lenses mentioned in this thread, the Zeiss 21, and thought I would share a comparison. Since purchasing the D800, I can certainly tell you that it does outperform the D1 and D3. I have, IMHO, produced some excellent files with it. But, now, my quest is to find the right combination of optics in order to obtain the best results and, hopefully, reduce the weight. During this testing period, I am also going to rent a Leica M series and do some comparisons.

I would be curious of your thoughts as you try other gear.

Regards,
Ed
Title: Re: To leave Hasselblad H4D 50?
Post by: ErikKaffehr on May 12, 2013, 10:53:30 am
Hi,

ACR and LR are the same.

Yes, raw converters may do apply sharpening, even if it is set to zero, Capture one was know to that. Hasselblad raw files work well with Camera Raw and LR, AFAIK. So using same raw converter gives like bananas to bananas comaprison.

Best regards
Erik

Erik,
I don't employ LR, but use the latest version of Adobe Camera Raw (ACR) with all sharpening turned off and in Phocus, sharpening is elective, and was turned off as well. Once these files were opened in PS, I applied the same level of Capture Sharpening with PhotoKit Sharpener. That way I thought I would achieve relatively similar results.

Are not the raw converters in ACR and LR essentially the same? And, are you saying that both ACR and Phocus both apply some level of sharpening even when sharpening is turned off?

If that's the case, I can always covert the Hasselblad file in ACR as well and compare. I am trying for a real world comparison and not trying to fool myself. I too have a need to lighten the load, and would really luv to have the D800 and Zeiss combo be a winner (those two Nikkors I used are quite bulky).

Regards,
Ed



Title: Re: To leave Hasselblad H4D 50?
Post by: Ed Foster, Jr. on May 12, 2013, 10:54:09 am
HCD easily looks the best here and this is with a 31MP H?Nikkor 17-35 seems to beat the Zeiss and 14-24

Well, that's exactly what I'm seeing, much to my chagrin. And yes, it's the 31mp sensor. My 17-35 Nikkor is about 10 years old, so I thought that might be why my files are not fully crisp. So, I was surprised that the Nikkor 14-24 and Zeiss 21were on the same level as the 17-35. However, I will continue comparisons with center and corner sharpness this week.

Regards,
Ed
Title: Re: To leave Hasselblad H4D 50?
Post by: Ed Foster, Jr. on May 12, 2013, 10:55:46 am
Hi,

ACR and LR are the same.

Yes, raw converters may do apply sharpening, even if it is set to zero, Capture one was know to that. Hasselblad raw files work well with Camera Raw and LR, AFAIK. So using same raw converter gives like bananas to bananas comaprison.
I'll convert the Hasselblad file in ACR tomorrow and see.

Thanks,
Ed
Title: Re: To leave Hasselblad H4D 50?
Post by: Ed Foster, Jr. on May 12, 2013, 10:57:16 am
The D800 is not even close...

Well, this week I will try a center and corner comparisons and see how that compares to the edge comparison.

Regards,
Ed
Title: Re: To leave Hasselblad H4D 50?
Post by: Ed Foster, Jr. on May 12, 2013, 10:58:35 am
Simon,

Your work with the D800 is always stellar. What lenses to find to work well for you with the D800?

Thanks,
Ed
Title: Re: To leave Hasselblad H4D 50? Regarding RVB:s samples
Post by: ErikKaffehr on May 12, 2013, 01:09:15 pm
Hi,

I checked out the samples. Exposures differ a lot. My main issue is that the images don't have the same field of view. So any detail on Nikon needs something like 50 procent more enlargement compared with the others. Things could be made more similar by moving in closer with the Zeiss  or using a more equivalent focal length. It should be noted that it is very much more difficult to build a 14 mm lens than a 19 or 21 mm lens. Another observation is the the MFD images contain a lot of Moiré and the Nikon doesn't have. Tablecloth, shoestrings for instance.

If you process the images in LR4.4 with no lens corrections both lenses show color fringing (lateral chroma). Nikon is OLP filtered, so it needs more sharpening. Comparing detail is not possible because of different scales.

Enclosed, actual pixel views with and without lens corrections.

I would expect that a larger format camera would come out on top in any such comparison. Having a larger format gives just so many advantages.

Best regards
Erik
Title: Re: To leave Hasselblad H4D 50?
Post by: FredBGG on May 12, 2013, 01:55:48 pm
Here are the results:

(http://www.edfoster.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Zeiss_21mm_EJF2716.jpg)

(http://www.edfoster.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/nikon_17-35_edge.jpg)

(http://www.edfoster.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/nikon_14-24_edge.jpg)

(http://www.edfoster.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/nikon_zeiss_21_edge.jpg)

(http://www.edfoster.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/hasselblad_edge.jpg)

Ed

PS - Please, please don't convert to animated gifs, anyone, if I had wanted to, I could've done that myself.


Nicely done test, but a test between Full Frame Zoom lenses that offer a wide focal length range compared to a
prime lens that is being used on a crop sensor so not really showing edge performance of the MF lens.
I would also add that the difference I see between the Zeiss 21mm and the Hasselblad is more about the contrast as well as exposure
and that is more of a raw converter difference. Also the Nikon shots are all about one stop brighter than the Hasselblad shot.
With a light subject (the statue) the more correct exposure will have more mid tones and hence shot more detail. 
I did a quick of the jpeg through ACR with sharpening lens correction etc off and made the exposure adjustment and it shows the same level of detail as the Hasselblad. The visual appearance of detail has a lot to do with exposure and tone too.

I think it's worth looking at the difference between a zoom on a Nikon and a prime on a Nikon.
Also testing rental gear is not a very reliable method.... I've seen all sorts of lens cleaning "methods"
used by pro's assistants and enthusiasts. Here are controlled tests with new gear and no lens corrections.

Nikon 17-35mm @ 5.6
(http://media.the-digital-picture.com/Images/Lens-Tests/ISO-12233/Nikon-17-35mm-f-2.8D-AF-S-Lens/Crop3/2009-11-23_15-39-07.jpg)


Zeiss 21mm @ 5.6
(http://media.the-digital-picture.com/Images/Lens-Tests/ISO-12233/Zeiss-21mm-Distagon-f-2.8-ZE-Lens/Crop3/2010-12-02_09-05-05.jpg)

The difference is huge.

This also indicates that lens correction software can be very effective.
Title: Re: To leave Hasselblad H4D 50?
Post by: Ed Foster, Jr. on May 12, 2013, 02:26:09 pm
Thanks, Fred.

First off, the comparisons are to evaluate potential lens candidates for my D800. I didn't feel as though my 10-year-old 17-35mm was up to par. Thus, I rented the Nikkor 14-24mm and Zeiss 21mm to begin evaluation against my 17-35mm. And, yes, your point is well taken with respect to rental equipment. Once I narrow my selection, I will only purchase where I can try multiple copies, either through an in person purchase or a no quibble 14 to 30 day return policy. As we know, not all lenses are equal.

I thought I may as well include the Hasselblad in the comparison as a benchmark as to what I hope to achieve with the D800 and not as a comparision to the Hasselblad. I don't call this a test, as I'm not trying to evaluate lenses in a controlled scientific manner but, under more real world conditions using the same workflow that I use near daily. After all, that's the way we work.

I think I've seen the chart slices you have posted before, which gave rise to my including the Zeiss (and my respect for Zeiss) in the comparisons. But,at the moment, I am not seeing this profound difference between my copy of the 17-35 and the Zeiss 21. But, then again I'm just beginning the comparison of these three lenses and, hey, maybe I have a great 17-35 and the Zeiss is a poor copy.

We'll see as I move along with this during the week.

Regards,
Ed
Title: Re: To leave Hasselblad H4D 50?
Post by: Lust4Life on May 12, 2013, 02:48:05 pm
Ed,

I am keenly interested in your "non-scientific" test results and await your "opinions".
My main focus is in primes as I've rarely seen a zoom I liked compared to a prime.

Jack
Title: Re: To leave Hasselblad H4D 50?
Post by: FredBGG on May 12, 2013, 02:48:14 pm
Hi Ed

Another thing to keep in mind when making such "HiFi" lens choices in a methodical manner as you are is the effect of distortion correction.

With most lens correction software one can choose what aspects to use in the correction. When correcting a landscape of rolling irregular hills for example it's not very important to correct for lens distortion thus not losing both composition and resolution.
It's important to remember that any movement of pixels results in interpolation and as a result of that a loss of resolution.

When looking to the very best IQ it's worth using ones lenses with different levels of lens correction.

Using or not using lens distortion correction will make a bigger difference with zooms that tend to have more distortion.

Another interesting point that was pointed out to me by a leading Hollywood DP who is also an excellent
stills photographer is that with equipment with very high IQ the difference in IQ is nearly always masked by other
factors such as haze, thermal distortion through the air, dust in the air etc. That said there are many locations where the air is so rediculously
crisp such as Arizona that even small high end differences can be seen, however the type of images that are taken in such super crisp
conditions start to get creepy sharp.

Then there's are a few images in my portfolio that has been repeatedly pointed out by my clients as the one's that tipped their choice in  my favor...
One is a studio shot where I shot with one strobe and one tungsten light because it was all I had and I accidently touched the stand durring the exposure moving it a bit, the other is a rather unsteady hand held shot with that giant brick of a Fuji gx680.

But I still think the quest for high IQ is of importance.
Title: Re: To leave Hasselblad H4D 50?
Post by: FredBGG on May 12, 2013, 03:02:43 pm
Thanks, Fred.
....
But, then again I'm just beginning the comparison of these three lenses and, hey, maybe I have a great 17-35 and the Zeiss is a poor copy.
....

Regards,
Ed

No... the 17-35mm is like a fine wine... it needs to age a bit. ;)

However I think you are right that if one is looking for the very highest in quality with these sensors with such high pixel density
for the tougher lenses to make testing several copies can show a difference that would be seen with the largest enlargements.

I think it's safe to say that this is more the case for standard to wide angle lenses that medium tele.
I've always found medium tele lenses to be the best and most consistent even between brands.
Makes life easier for portrait/fashion photographers I guess.
Title: Re: To leave Hasselblad H4D 50? Regarding RVB:s samples
Post by: RVB on May 12, 2013, 04:49:24 pm
Hi,

I checked out the samples. Exposures differ a lot. My main issue is that the images don't have the same field of view. So any detail on Nikon needs something like 50 procent more enlargement compared with the others. Things could be made more similar by moving in closer with the Zeiss  or using a more equivalent focal length. It should be noted that it is very much more difficult to build a 14 mm lens than a 19 or 21 mm lens. Another observation is the the MFD images contain a lot of Moiré and the Nikon doesn't have. Tablecloth, shoestrings for instance.

If you process the images in LR4.4 with no lens corrections both lenses show color fringing (lateral chroma). Nikon is OLP filtered, so it needs more sharpening. Comparing detail is not possible because of different scales.

Enclosed, actual pixel views with and without lens corrections.

I would expect that a larger format camera would come out on top in any such comparison. Having a larger format gives just so many advantages.

Best regards
Erik

Exposure does differ but it was natural light in the evening and the light was falling fast,what I did hope to achieve was to illustrate the different look of MF images,and also the better color correction and corner performance..

Rob
Title: Re: To leave Hasselblad H4D 50?
Post by: RVB on May 12, 2013, 04:53:06 pm
Nicely done test, but a test between Full Frame Zoom lenses that offer a wide focal length range compared to a
prime lens that is being used on a crop sensor so not really showing edge performance of the MF lens.
I would also add that the difference I see between the Zeiss 21mm and the Hasselblad is more about the contrast as well as exposure
and that is more of a raw converter difference. Also the Nikon shots are all about one stop brighter than the Hasselblad shot.
With a light subject (the statue) the more correct exposure will have more mid tones and hence shot more detail. 
I did a quick of the jpeg through ACR with sharpening lens correction etc off and made the exposure adjustment and it shows the same level of detail as the Hasselblad. The visual appearance of detail has a lot to do with exposure and tone too.

I think it's worth looking at the difference between a zoom on a Nikon and a prime on a Nikon.
Also testing rental gear is not a very reliable method.... I've seen all sorts of lens cleaning "methods"
used by pro's assistants and enthusiasts. Here are controlled tests with new gear and no lens corrections.

Nikon 17-35mm @ 5.6
(http://media.the-digital-picture.com/Images/Lens-Tests/ISO-12233/Nikon-17-35mm-f-2.8D-AF-S-Lens/Crop3/2009-11-23_15-39-07.jpg)


Zeiss 21mm @ 5.6
(http://media.the-digital-picture.com/Images/Lens-Tests/ISO-12233/Zeiss-21mm-Distagon-f-2.8-ZE-Lens/Crop3/2010-12-02_09-05-05.jpg)

The difference is huge.

This also indicates that lens correction software can be very effective.


We need to empty a healthy level of caution with test charts when wide angles are used,field curvature will play a hand in most cases.. Having said that most people who have used the zeiss 21mm have good things to report,I used one with a D3X a few years ago and it was pretty good although it does have the tricky mustache distortion ,but even that can be dealt with by PT lens...

Rob
Title: Re: To leave Hasselblad H4D 50?
Post by: Ed Foster, Jr. on May 12, 2013, 07:01:32 pm
Ed,
I am keenly interested in your "non-scientific" test results and await your "opinions".
My main focus is in primes as I've rarely seen a zoom I liked compared to a prime.
This week I'll be continuing with the two I've rented. When I was doing more photojournalism, the zooms were a bonus, but now that type of work is more documentary where I have time and space and am not needing to lug two or three bodies, so I can utilize primes, which I have always believed to be superior. Plus, weight is a factor. I thought my 17-35 was a beast, but that 14-24 feels like a bazooka, especially compared to the diminutive Zeiss.

Regards,
Ed
Title: Re: To leave Hasselblad H4D 50?
Post by: HarperPhotos on May 12, 2013, 08:39:38 pm
Hi Ed,

Yes I use Nikon lenses on my Nikon D800 and Nikon D800E. I've tried the Zeiss primes and I found them not that good personally I think its all marketing bs when it comes to Zeiss.

My Nikon lenses I use are:

Sigma 15mm F2.8 Fisheye lens
Nikon 14-24mm F2.8 G lens
Nikon 16-35mm F4.0 VRII G lens
Nikon 70-210mm F2.8 VRII G lens
Nikon 24-85mm  F3.5-4.5 VRII G lens
Nikon 24mm F3.5 PC-E lens
Nikon 28mm F1.8 G lens
Nikon 35mm F1.4 G lens
Nikon 35mm F2.8 shift lens
Nikon 45mm F2.8 PC-E lens
Nikon 50mm F1.4 G lens
Nikon 60mm F2.8 G lens
Nikon 85mm F1.4 G lens
Nikon 85mm F2.8 PC-E lens
Nikon 300mm F4.0 D lens
Nikon TC-14E Teleconverter
Nikon TC-17E II Teleconverter

And some old Nikon manual primes.

There are only two other lenses I would like but Nikon haven't made them yet which would be a Nikon 28mm F1.4 lens and my dream lens would be a Nikon 17mm PC-E lens.

The new G lenses from Nikon are simply superb in resolution with there new Nano coatings.

I also use a Horseman VVC adaptor for my table top work, art reproduction and some car shots. This adaptor for me is indispensable the lenses I use on it are,

Rodenstock 60mm, 135mm, 150mm Rodagon lenses
Rodenstock 75mm, 80mm, 105mm, 120mm Apo Rodagon lenses

All these lenses I bought second hand on EBay and are fantastic.

Cheers

Simon
Title: Re: To leave Hasselblad H4D 50?
Post by: ErikKaffehr on May 13, 2013, 03:11:24 pm
Hi Simon,

Lens Rentals have done a lot of tests, and they seem to have found that the Zeiss lenses have some benefits. It depends on much how you shoot. Most good lenses are pretty good at f/5.6 or so, past that diffraction may come into play. For instance the new Apo Sonnar 135/2 is very sharp at full aperture but at f/5.6 the Canon 135/2 is as good as the Zeiss, according to some testing at lens renatl.

I have tested four Zeiss lenses of my own, two ZA-zooms for Sony and two Zeiss lenses for Hasselblad. All those lenses are good, but I don't see the magic.

Best regards
Erik


Hi Ed,

Yes I use Nikon lenses on my Nikon D800 and Nikon D800E. I've tried the Zeiss primes and I found them not that good personally I think its all marketing bs when it comes to Zeiss.

My Nikon lenses I use are:

Sigma 15mm F2.8 Fisheye lens
Nikon 14-24mm F2.8 G lens
Nikon 16-35mm F4.0 VRII G lens
Nikon 70-210mm F2.8 VRII G lens
Nikon 24-85mm  F3.5-4.5 VRII G lens
Nikon 24mm F3.5 PC-E lens
Nikon 28mm F1.8 G lens
Nikon 35mm F1.4 G lens
Nikon 35mm F2.8 shift lens
Nikon 45mm F2.8 PC-E lens
Nikon 50mm F1.4 G lens
Nikon 60mm F2.8 G lens
Nikon 85mm F1.4 G lens
Nikon 85mm F2.8 PC-E lens
Nikon 300mm F4.0 D lens
Nikon TC-14E Teleconverter
Nikon TC-17E II Teleconverter

And some old Nikon manual primes.

There are only two other lenses I would like but Nikon haven't made them yet which would be a Nikon 28mm F1.4 lens and my dream lens would be a Nikon 17mm PC-E lens.

The new G lenses from Nikon are simply superb in resolution with there new Nano coatings.

I also use a Horseman VVC adaptor for my table top work, art reproduction and some car shots. This adaptor for me is indispensable the lenses I use on it are,

Rodenstock 60mm, 135mm, 150mm Rodagon lenses
Rodenstock 75mm, 80mm, 105mm, 120mm Apo Rodagon lenses

All these lenses I bought second hand on EBay and are fantastic.

Cheers

Simon

Title: Re: To leave Hasselblad H4D 50?
Post by: Ed Foster, Jr. on May 13, 2013, 04:45:09 pm
Simon,

Thanks for the list. I am trying the 14-24 at the moment. The Horseman VVC Adaptor looks interesting especially for tabletop work.

Regards,
Ed
Title: Re: To leave Hasselblad H4D 50?
Post by: RVB on May 15, 2013, 06:04:38 am
Please define what you have seen as a "good price" for the S2?

Jack

http://www.getdpi.com/forum/gear-fs-wtb/45377-fs-eu-germany-leica-s2-body.html (http://www.getdpi.com/forum/gear-fs-wtb/45377-fs-eu-germany-leica-s2-body.html)
Title: Re: To leave Hasselblad H4D 50?
Post by: Gigi on May 15, 2013, 09:06:11 am
A different recommendation, as it seems weight issue is really key.

Leica M
Sony RX1 (fixed lens)
and if you really want quality above all else, Alpa TC with a back.

One goal is to shoot with a single lens, if possible. If not, Leica is your friend.
Alternatives for the RX-1 include the Fuji and Sigma.
Title: Re: To leave Hasselblad H4D 50?
Post by: RVB on May 15, 2013, 09:47:12 am
Hi Ed,

 I've tried the Zeiss primes and I found them not that good personally I think its all marketing bs when it comes to Zeiss.

Cheers

Simon


I was curious about Zeiss compared to Nikkor..  here is a link with an aperture series from the Zeiss 15mm compared to the Nikkor 14-24.. the Zeiss benefits from less CA in general and better flare control as well as no focus shift and the Nikkor has AF and covers a Zoom range....

https://www.yousendit.com/download/UVJnZUNqVEhWRDlwdmNUQw (https://www.yousendit.com/download/UVJnZUNqVEhWRDlwdmNUQw)
Title: Re: To leave Hasselblad H4D 50?
Post by: Ed Foster, Jr. on May 15, 2013, 07:43:04 pm
I was curious about Zeiss compared to Nikkor..  here is a link with an aperture series from the Zeiss 15mm compared to the Nikkor 14-24.. the Zeiss benefits from less CA in general and better flare control as well as no focus shift and the Nikkor has AF and covers a Zoom range....

https://www.yousendit.com/download/UVJnZUNqVEhWRDlwdmNUQw (https://www.yousendit.com/download/UVJnZUNqVEhWRDlwdmNUQw)
Thanks for the files, they make for a good comparison. The Nikkor does have more aberration but both clean up rather well with the lens profile in ACR. The Zeiss does appear to have a touch more inherent contrast and a touch better detail in the fabric of the sofa, but from what I'm seeing, there is not really an appreciable difference. From what I'm seeing here I would tend to opt for the Nikkor 14-24mm - for my needs - considering the AF advantage. I really thought I would see a notable difference between a prime and a zoom.

At the moment, I am seeing about the same thing comparing a Zeiss 21mm against a Nikkor 14-24mm, however, the Zeiss 21mm has a nasty handlebar moustache distortion (though it mostly is corrected with the lens profile). I am continuing to shoot with those two and comparing them to my 10-year-old AF-S Nikkor 17-35mm 1:2.8D ED, and the 28mm on a Hasselblad H4D-31 for reference.

Thanks again for the files,
Ed
 

Title: Re: To leave Hasselblad H4D 50?
Post by: RVB on May 15, 2013, 11:15:32 pm
Thanks for the files, they make for a good comparison. The Nikkor does have more aberration but both clean up rather well with the lens profile in ACR. The Zeiss does appear to have a touch more inherent contrast and a touch better detail in the fabric of the sofa, but from what I'm seeing, there is not really an appreciable difference. From what I'm seeing here I would tend to opt for the Nikkor 14-24mm - for my needs - considering the AF advantage. I really thought I would see a notable difference between a prime and a zoom.

At the moment, I am seeing about the same thing comparing a Zeiss 21mm against a Nikkor 14-24mm, however, the Zeiss 21mm has a nasty handlebar moustache distortion (though it mostly is corrected with the lens profile). I am continuing to shoot with those two and comparing them to my 10-year-old AF-S Nikkor 17-35mm 1:2.8D ED, and the 28mm on a Hasselblad H4D-31 for reference.

Thanks again for the files,
Ed
 
Hi Ed

I think the advantages of the Zeiss are better flare control when shooting into the sun,backlighting etc,slightly higher resolution in the center of the frame and the ability to use a filter,it also transmits more light,at the same aperture's the Zeiss is a little brighter,But the Nikkor zoom is a great lens and very versatile as well as a lot cheaper ...

Rob

Title: Re: To leave Hasselblad H4D 50?
Post by: FredBGG on May 15, 2013, 11:54:06 pm
Thanks for the files, they make for a good comparison. The Nikkor does have more aberration but both clean up rather well with the lens profile in ACR. The Zeiss does appear to have a touch more inherent contrast and a touch better detail in the fabric of the sofa, but from what I'm seeing, there is not really an appreciable difference. From what I'm seeing here I would tend to opt for the Nikkor 14-24mm - for my needs - considering the AF advantage. I really thought I would see a notable difference between a prime and a zoom.

At the moment, I am seeing about the same thing comparing a Zeiss 21mm against a Nikkor 14-24mm, however, the Zeiss 21mm has a nasty handlebar moustache distortion (though it mostly is corrected with the lens profile). I am continuing to shoot with those two and comparing them to my 10-year-old AF-S Nikkor 17-35mm 1:2.8D ED, and the 28mm on a Hasselblad H4D-31 for reference.

Thanks again for the files,
Ed

It's remarkable how the 14-24mm zooms holds up against the Zeiss prime despite being both 2.8 lenses.
Similar size and weight, but the zoom is about $ 1,000 less expensive
 


Title: Re: To leave Hasselblad H4D 50?
Post by: ErikKaffehr on May 16, 2013, 12:26:29 am
Hi,

I really hope that you find a workable solution.

Best regards
Erik

I believe from reading this thread that from a pure technical perspective - the Hassie with 28mm wins.

But as the last post indicates, I have the problem of defining what is priority:
Simply put, the equation is: As weight increases, the ability to walk any distance decreases.

It's that simple.

Three days ago I had trouble walking 20 yards, and that was without carrying a camera.
Other days I can do substantially better, but not near what I used to do - run Marathons
and hike all over the planet with no issue on control of the legs.

A chap must learn to find this change in personal physical limits "entertaining" rather than
devastating.

What this tread has shown me to date is the Nikon D800 can do an acceptable job, while not
what I'm used to in image RAW data, but at a weight that will allow me to continue to gather images in
accessible areas - not distant hikes to waterfalls up steep hills.  Those days are gone even
without a camera.  Thus, I'm thankful that the D800 at 36.2MP and great Dmax is now in
the marketplace!

Like with many progressive neurological diseases, it is a downward slope you are
living on.  Thus I figure it will be a slow progression from the use of a Hassie AND Nikon D800, then gradually taking the Hassie out of the equation and going with D800 and Leica M.  Leica being the final tool
that will allow me continue to capture images.

Thus, at this point in the journey I think I will sell off my 50-110 lens as it is just too heavy, use the Hassie with 28 for very short (close to where the car is parked) scenes and buy a Nikon D800 with a wide angle
and short tele to use for scenes where I need to walk any appreciable distance to shoot it (and which
my wife could carry D800, a wide angle and my RRS carbon tripod with no problem).

I'm also finding it interesting to evaluate the need to move from Landscape photography, which in my experience does require hiking and stamina in your legs, to other areas of interest.  Yes, I'll still pursue landscape scenes as a "trunk photographer", but I think that focusing on
Abstracts, Architecture and possible Portraits will be a transition that I will have to shift my focus.

The transition will be "entertaining" to say the least.

Title: Re: To leave Hasselblad H4D 50?
Post by: jerome_m on May 16, 2013, 08:25:14 am
Three days ago I had trouble walking 20 yards, and that was without carrying a camera.
Other days I can do substantially better, but not near what I used to do - run Marathons
and hike all over the planet with no issue on control of the legs.

A chap must learn to find this change in personal physical limits "entertaining" rather than
devastating.

I am sorry to read that, but if this is the state of things, you may simply want to keep your present H4D and 28mm lens and get some help to lug it around.

There have been some well known photographers who concentrated themselves on finding the right place to take the picture from and used an assistant to mount the camera on a tripod and press the release.
Title: Re: To leave Hasselblad H4D 50?
Post by: Lust4Life on August 11, 2013, 10:06:11 pm
On Friday, August 11 I received my Nikon D800E, 24mm PC-E and 85mm/1.8 Nikkor lenses.
Today, Sunday, I finally got time to shoot off a couple of frames to study.

First impressions:
1.  Don't care for the Nikon ViewNX2 RAW Converter - getting far better results from CS5.
2.  Quite impressed with the images shot today.  In the next couple of days I'll shoot off some difficult scenes and see what I get.
3.  Totally impressed with the weight reduction of the Nikon with 2 lenses verse the Hassie gear!  This I can handle and not be
completely dependent upon my Camera Sherpa (AKA: Wife) to transport my gear.

In short, first impression is the D800E is a keeper.  Will do more research on lenses that are optimized for Landscape work.
So far, I like the 24mm PC-E.

Suggestions for best RAW converter appreciated.

Jack
Title: Re: To leave Hasselblad H4D 50?
Post by: ErikKaffehr on August 12, 2013, 12:03:25 am
Great news.

Regarding Capture 1 this thread may be of some interest: http://www.luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?topic=79952.0

Personally I have both LR5 and C1 and just start to 'warm up' to C1

Regarding optics, there are couple of good sites:

http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2012/03/d800-lens-selection

Lloyd Chambers has much good info on his sites (those are pay sites):

http://diglloyd.com/index-dap.html
http://diglloyd.com/index-zf.html

Photozone has lot of lens tests:
http://www.photozone.de

Best regards
Erik

On Friday, August 11 I received my Nikon D800E, 24mm PC-E and 85mm/1.8 Nikkor lenses.
Today, Sunday, I finally got time to shoot off a couple of frames to study.

First impressions:
1.  Don't care for the Nikon ViewNX2 RAW Converter - getting far better results from CS5.
2.  Quite impressed with the images shot today.  In the next couple of days I'll shoot off some difficult scenes and see what I get.
3.  Totally impressed with the weight reduction of the Nikon with 2 lenses verse the Hassie gear!  This I can handle and not be
completely dependent upon my Camera Sherpa (AKA: Wife) to transport my gear.

In short, first impression is the D800E is a keeper.  Will do more research on lenses that are optimized for Landscape work.
So far, I like the 24mm PC-E.

Suggestions for best RAW converter appreciated.

Jack
Title: Re: To leave Hasselblad H4D 50?
Post by: Ajoy Roy on August 12, 2013, 09:36:33 am
Unless you want to print big, a Nikon d600 with a set of primes is a light weight solution. The DR is shade less than d800 and if you are not averse to manual focus, some primes are quite light in the 250-300g range.
Title: Re: To leave Hasselblad H4D 50?
Post by: Lust4Life on August 12, 2013, 09:43:44 am
I will print up to 22" wide on my Canon iPF6400, so I'm taking the D800E route.

Really like the camera so far, as mentioned above. But a couple of weeks living with it will be the determining factor.

Jack
Title: Re: To leave Hasselblad H4D 50?
Post by: Ajoy Roy on August 12, 2013, 09:55:57 am
I will print up to 22" wide on my Canon iPF6400, so I'm taking the D800E route.

Really like the camera so far, as mentioned above. But a couple of weeks living with it will be the determining factor.

Jack
Actually you can print 22" with D600 also. That will save 150g of weight.
Title: Re: To leave Hasselblad H4D 50?
Post by: ErikKaffehr on August 12, 2013, 10:20:22 am
Hi,

Jack is coming from MF, so he is accustomed to lots of MP and no OLP filter, so I guess he appreciated the 800E. A wise choise of lenses may save some weight. Keep in mind that everything has a weight, camerabags not the least. Need to find the optimal package...


I started shooting MFD recently, a p45+ on a Hasselblad V series camera and I feel the pixels matter, at least on screen.

Best regards
Erik

Actually you can print 22" with D600 also. That will save 150g of weight.