Luminous Landscape Forum

The Art of Photography => User Critiques => Topic started by: RSL on April 14, 2013, 09:53:24 am

Title: In Castillo de San Marcos
Post by: RSL on April 14, 2013, 09:53:24 am
It's a quick snapshot but I couldn't have improved it even if I'd been able to set up lights.
Title: Re: In Castillo de San Marcos
Post by: Eric Myrvaagnes on April 14, 2013, 12:31:11 pm
Very nice, Russ, and perfect background.
Title: Re: In Castillo de San Marcos
Post by: amolitor on April 15, 2013, 09:28:59 am
Very very nice. You're right, I don't think this can be improved, it is what it is as well as can be imagined.
Title: Re: In Castillo de San Marcos
Post by: William Walker on April 15, 2013, 02:31:42 pm
A really good portrait.

I like the light on his face and the clarity too.

I might be inclined to do something about the blue bench, I don't think cropping (yes, I said "crop"!) the bench and a bit of his elbow would detract from the picture at all.

William

I hope you don't mind me taking the liberty of illustrating what I had in mind?
Title: Re: In Castillo de San Marcos
Post by: WalterEG on April 15, 2013, 04:11:42 pm
I am normally strongly in favour of context if it means anything.  But in this case the bench detracted rather than enhanced and so I far prefer William's rendering.

W
Title: Re: In Castillo de San Marcos
Post by: amolitor on April 15, 2013, 05:50:35 pm
I much prefer the more generous frame on the gentleman in question. Clone the blue out, or alter its color to be less obtrusive, if you must.
Title: Re: In Castillo de San Marcos
Post by: RSL on April 15, 2013, 07:38:23 pm
Hi William, Not only do I not mind that you're illustrating what you had in mind, I find the fact that we can do that one of the most satisfying things about LuLa. I've dealt with other fora where this is prohibited, and requiring contributors to try to explain what they mean instead of demonstrating it in a digital environment where criticism is invited and demonstration is easy seems to me the height of asininity.

But I don't agree with the crop. Cropping the arm kills the triangular composition of the picture and turns it into a fairly ho-hum face shot. As Andrew pointed out I could drop the saturation on the blue stool or even clone it out, but it's far enough out of the zone of focus back there that it doesn't bother me. It even helps to complete the triangle. You might want to do some reading on the elements of composition and spend some time looking at well-composed paintings. I know that it's all the rage to talk about violating the "rules" of composition, but you can't really do that until you know what those rules are.
Title: Re: In Castillo de San Marcos
Post by: Eric Myrvaagnes on April 15, 2013, 08:02:11 pm
I would be tempted to darken the top surface of the bench (or desaturate it) until it comes closer to the shadowed area, but I would NOT CROP at all.
Title: Re: In Castillo de San Marcos
Post by: Patricia Sheley on April 15, 2013, 09:12:51 pm
Russ...Help me, is there a way, or even permissable, to soften his strong teeth...I wish he hadn't trimmed his mustache...I love the aura of his expression and keep feeling the battle with the teeth...would a low opacity layer of his beautiful face hair be a wrong thing to do...or somehow toning them to less self importance over his wonderful gaze...help me think this through please...I've been unable to figure the way...
Title: Re: In Castillo de San Marcos
Post by: RSL on April 15, 2013, 09:27:05 pm
Hi Patricia, Here's a crop -- 100% from a 36mpx original reduced to 12 mpx -- that shows the center of his face. You're not seeing his teeth at all. You're seeing light on his lower lip. It might be worthwhile to reduce the highlight on the lip. I'll take another look at it tomorrow if I get some time to do it. Good point.
Title: Re: In Castillo de San Marcos
Post by: Eric Myrvaagnes on April 15, 2013, 11:55:07 pm
It sure looks like teeth to me, both uppers and lowers.
Title: Re: In Castillo de San Marcos
Post by: Michael West on April 16, 2013, 12:34:32 am
It sure looks like teeth to me, both uppers and lowers.


I dont know what to make of this one. on close inspection the lips do indeed appear to be teeth.
 
Perhaps the photographer will post another image of this man to help clarify the matter
Title: Re: In Castillo de San Marcos
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on April 16, 2013, 01:43:47 am
It sure looks like teeth to me, both uppers and lowers.

Now, that's ambiguity! ;)
Title: Re: In Castillo de San Marcos
Post by: Rob C on April 16, 2013, 04:13:05 am
Now, that's ambiguity! ;)



And at his age, optimism.

He's simply got an underbite.

Rob C

P.S. This never happened with film.
Title: Re: In Castillo de San Marcos
Post by: RSL on April 16, 2013, 09:38:19 am
Unfortunately I only had time to click the shutter twice with this guy. In the other shot he's turned farther away from the camera so his lips don't show. Also unfortunately, in this shot the highlight on his lower lip is bright enough that there's not much I can do about bringing it under control. I was wrong. I could have done better if I'd been able to control the light. Until Patricia pointed it out, his lower lip never looked like teeth to me, probably because I already knew what I was looking at (believing is seeing). But this is a lip that's been around for a long time and out in all kinds of weather. Here's a small improvement -- very small.
Title: Re: In Castillo de San Marcos
Post by: amolitor on April 16, 2013, 10:28:22 am
You might consider doing a tiny bit of cloning just to break up the tooth-like pattern while retaining the weathered look, rather than trying to reduce the brightness.
Title: Re: In Castillo de San Marcos
Post by: RSL on April 16, 2013, 02:56:00 pm
Okay, Andrew, here's the final product.
Title: Re: In Castillo de San Marcos
Post by: nemo295 on April 16, 2013, 04:28:27 pm
That guy seriously needs to get his eyebrows trimmed.  :D
Title: Re: In Castillo de San Marcos
Post by: Eric Myrvaagnes on April 16, 2013, 08:10:15 pm
Okay, Andrew, here's the final product.
Ouch!!!
Title: Re: In Castillo de San Marcos
Post by: Patricia Sheley on April 16, 2013, 10:06:00 pm
I am in love with his eyebrows!
I think with some time spent using an area from around the eyes and maintaining some of the structure you could probably get that lower lip reconstructed. Took me forever to figure out where it might actually have fit...could not shake the anatomy of teeth...wish I'd never mentioned it ...it's the eyebrows that brought me like a moth to flame...I played with the patch tool a bit here, but away from the computer so defining the area fought my efforts...but think you can see the idea...maybe going for coffee with him would be more rewarding...do you know him...looks like he has a story behind those eyes, (and more...)
Title: Re: In Castillo de San Marcos
Post by: Dale Villeponteaux on April 17, 2013, 06:37:11 am
  Might try adding a transparent layer and paint 50% gray on the lips and fade to taste.  I think that is a technique described by Mr. Shewe in one of the video tutorials, though he used black to tone down highlights.

Thanks,
Dale
Title: Re: In Castillo de San Marcos
Post by: RSL on April 17, 2013, 08:36:12 am
Hi Patricia, hi Dale, Yes, I could spend the rest of my life working on this picture in Photoshop. In the end I'd have essentially what I already have, and I'd much rather spend that time shooting new pictures.

This guy is an actor at Castillo de San Marcos, a national monument my wife and I visit nearly every time we visit St. Augustine in Florida, one of my favorite places in all the world to do street photography. He was acting as an information booth guy at the time I shot this picture, and my wife was chatting with him. St. Augustine is the oldest continuously occupied city in the United States. It was built and settled by the Spanish in 1565, occupied by the English in 1763, re-occupied by the Spanish in 1783, and finally occupied permanently by the United States in 1821. The Castillo is the harbor fort that was built by the Spanish in the late 1600's. You can read all about the Castillo at http://www.nps.gov/casa/index.htm.
Title: Re: In Castillo de San Marcos
Post by: Patricia Sheley on April 17, 2013, 12:06:08 pm
Appreciate that sentiment Russ. The jpg4 I posted was an example of sliding the selection around in the eye area trying to find an area approximating lower lip structure, and with what I imagined the light falloff might have been. Certainly has given me a new appreciation of the work the volunteer restorers for victims of Sandy Hook, New Orleans etc are up against. Certainly not my skill set, but does feed none the less into what light forms for us. Thank you for providing an image I like for thinking about the whys and hows of something new to me...
Title: Re: In Castillo de San Marcos
Post by: Rob C on April 17, 2013, 01:35:46 pm
Hi Patricia, hi Dale, Yes, I could spend the rest of my life working on this picture in Photoshop. In the end I'd have essentially what I already have, and I'd much rather spend that time shooting new pictures.

This guy is an actor at Castillo de San Marcos, a national monument my wife and I visit nearly every time we visit St. Augustine in Florida, one of my favorite places in all the world to do street photography. He was acting as an information booth guy at the time I shot this picture, and my wife was chatting with him. St. Augustine is the oldest continuously occupied city in the United States. It was built and settled by the Spanish in 1565, occupied by the English in 1763, re-occupied by the Spanish in 1783, and finally occupied permanently by the United States in 1821. The Castillo is the harbor fort that was built by the Spanish in the late 1600's. You can read all about the Castillo at http://www.nps.gov/casa/index.htm.




Hot damn, Russ! The Unitred States lives there - much easier to occupy and then keep occupied than from Britain or Spain... Think of the problems we two monarchies already have with the Falklands-cum-Malvinas.

;-)

Rob C

P.S. Which is confusing: Spain has nothing to do with the Falklands, but it does with Gibraltar. And that's on the same bit of land (in Europe!). Thing is, why would anyone want it? It's one of the ugliest places I've ever been to in my life. Strategic? In today's world? About as stategic as my stockphoto plan for my old age! Worthless.

Title: Re: In Castillo de San Marcos
Post by: RSL on April 17, 2013, 02:32:16 pm
Right, Rob, but things still were somewhat touch-and-go here less than ten years after the war of 1812. The Unites States actually bought Florida from Spain. By the way, the Castillo still was a U.S. military installation, called Fort St. Mark, right up until I was 3 years old.

Just for fun, here are some tourist snaps from the Castillo.
Title: Re: In Castillo de San Marcos
Post by: Rob C on April 17, 2013, 05:36:16 pm
Like the Barracks piccy; reminds me of my boarding school, except that the atmosphere in the barracks was possibly more congenial. I have always thought of boarding school as punishment for the innocent: your punishment for thinking there's a better side to man than you see.

Rob C