Luminous Landscape Forum
Raw & Post Processing, Printing => Printing: Printers, Papers and Inks => Topic started by: David Eckels on April 14, 2013, 09:04:36 am
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From another thread (http://www.luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?topic=77386.msg619422#new), the question was raised regarding the best way to print digital B/W images that have been warmed up some. Any suggestions or "rules of thumb" for us?
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I don't know of any way to do this other than to print them as "color" images, otherwise you are limited to the tonality of you black and gray inks.
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From another thread (http://www.luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?topic=77386.msg619422#new), the question was raised regarding the best way to print digital B/W images that have been warmed up some. Any suggestions or "rules of thumb" for us?
You can used the Epson ABW driver and its toning options. You have more predictive ability and control over the toning most easily if you print from Lightroom and use the Split Toning panel. Apart from these elementary pointers, this is largely a matter of taste. Experiment and see what looks best and is most easily manageable for you.
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Check Paul Roark's PDFs on B&W printing. Most are starting from custom B&W ink sets but at least it gives a good indication which black/grey inks and papers are already warm without any color ink addition. Think about solutions with QTR as the driver and your normal Epson inkset, there are complete setups + B&W profiles included in the package. A warm paper is a start.
--
Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst
http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
December 2012, 500+ inkjet media white spectral plots.
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Any Epson Printer from the R2880 up with the Jon Cone Piezography inks. http://www.inkjetmall.com (http://www.inkjetmall.com)
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Ilford Galeria Gold Fiber Silk http://ilford.com/en/products/photo-inkjet/galerie-prestige/gold-fibre-silk/
also read this article of Michael:
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/printers/baryta.shtml
I hope it helps.
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in the traditional darkroom tone as often as not came from the paper (at least the non-garish tones).
for my buck there is NO comparison to a piezo print when you want a toned BW, they are drool inducing pretty.
I can't have two printers and need to do color so I do my own prints as tritone or quadtone images that are printed in color. works well for me until I can have a piezo dedicated printer in addition to the ipf.
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in the traditional darkroom tone as often as not came from the paper (at least the non-garish tones).
for my buck there is NO comparison to a piezo print when you want a toned BW, they are drool inducing pretty.
I can't have two printers and need to do color so I do my own prints as tritone or quadtone images that are printed in color. works well for me until I can have a piezo dedicated printer in addition to the ipf.
With the Jon Cone inking system you can do both. I just use a simple flush, switch out the inking cartridges and do a quick fafter flush print to ensure the inks are set...Jon's inks are superior to anything else I've used out there in piezo land.
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I use Quad Tone RIP it a great tool for the price. check it out here: http://www.quadtonerip.com/html/QTRoverview.html
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Quadtone Rip is a must, even with Cone.
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Fully agree with Jon Cone Piezography inks. http://www.inkjetmall.com
They can range from cold to quite warm.
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Quadtone Rip is a must, even with Cone.
Actually, I would say Quadtone Rip is a must especially with Cone inks...
:~)
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Cone Piezography used to be linearized and partitioned with the expensive and fairly complex rip Studio Print by ErgoSoft. That is still is probably the most precise platform for doing monochrome blends and splits and plenty of people still go that route for highly specialized set ups.
However, these days most of us are using Quad Tone Rip with the K7 inks. I have the K7 Carbon Sepia set up in a 9890 and it is by far the most beautiful, dimensional, and stable warm tone pigment workflow that I've ever seen. The Ardenburg test results done years ago shows this set to be as permanent as anything there is and I use it with the Canson papers that have pigment whiteners. From my drum scans of 100 iso 4x5 film these inks with Jon's custom curves made for QTR really capture everything I can see on the film. Same is true of the dslr work I do with them, nudes, landscapes, portraits and my still life work all look amazing with this many dilutions of gray.
I can use others too like Epson Vivid Magenta set out of Quad Tone Rip, or the Canon 8300 out of True Black and White, or the HPZ as an RGB device out of Lightroom or Photoshop, toned for very nice single hue prints. But it isn't the same as K7. If it were I wouldn't have a new 44" printer sitting over there with only one ink color in it. Is it worth it? It is to me and the people I do work for. I can and have matched the print color with some effort with all three color ink set ups but I can't duplicate that dimensionality of K7, I just can't.
john
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Can anybody suggest a complete workflow set up and run through for QTRip on a Windows system. The description that comes with the s/w has me scratching my head at various stages particularly setting up the curves and linearisation process. The instructions seem to have been pieced together with older versions of s/w with assumptions made etc. I have seen various step by step guides for MacOS but the differences mean I lose the 'plot' along the way. I have an i1pro spectro so can use that with my 3880 for custom profiles and color management, so I am by no means clueless
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I appreciate its not expensive by any means and perhaps this sets an expectation of the documentation, but I am sure
I have tried trawling the forums and the yahoo group but really would benefit from a complete step by step (an idiots guide) where I can fully understand the process
TIA
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I have been thinking of diving into the K7 system, but am not sure about which inkset to consider. With my current toning in either Photoshop or Lightroom I like to do a warm shadow, less warm midtone and approaching a neutral highlight. I like the split tone look as I prefer to have brighter, more brilliant whites.
Which inkset to choose for something like a 7890 or 9890 printer?
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+1 for the LR split tone panel. The ability to keep highlights clean is a big deal to me and the ability to control "where that starts" as well as the color & saturation of the "tone" is excellent. Papers that work for me to preserve warmth are: Epson Hot Press Natural, Ilford Gold Fibre Silk, Harmon Gloss Baryta.
Here's an example that I consider "subtle" application of split tone - my little homage to Edward Weston.
(http://rsadams.smugmug.com/Motorcycles/Misc/i-4q5xQKL/1/X2/Nautilus-Edit-X2.jpg)
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I have been thinking of diving into the K7 system, but am not sure about which inkset to consider. With my current toning in either Photoshop or Lightroom I like to do a warm shadow, less warm midtone and approaching a neutral highlight. I like the split tone look as I prefer to have brighter, more brilliant whites.
Which inkset to choose for something like a 7890 or 9890 printer?
the Special Edition set may be what you are after, or some similar combination. You have to see this stuff for yourself, I'd talk to them and get some samples of the different sets.
Tyler
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There are a number of good guides for QTR. Check the files section of the QTR Yahoo group. Tom Moore wrote an excellent guide which i windows based. Amadou Diallo's guide is good as is Lou Dina's They may be Mac based, but once you get a basic handle on QTR they all are helpful. There are some other floating around which are also helpful.
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I have been thinking of diving into the K7 system, but am not sure about which inkset to consider. With my current toning in either Photoshop or Lightroom I like to do a warm shadow, less warm midtone and approaching a neutral highlight. I like the split tone look as I prefer to have brighter, more brilliant whites.
Which inkset to choose for something like a 7890 or 9890 printer?
Jon Cone will send you a full set of sample inks on different papers. They are a decent size and quite accurate to final output.
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With the advent of Bill Atkinson's profiles for the Epson 7600/9600 I simply figured the best approach for my B&W was to print warm tone and be done with it.
The main key is to keep the image in RGB for printing and archiving.
Back in the good old days, I printed on Portriga Rapid paper that I would selenium tone. Going long in the toner, the print would split in color between the quarter tones and three-quarter tones. They worked for my images.
By keeping things in RGB and printing using all the colors of the printer, not only can you print warm-tone, but cools, metals, and more. The possibilities are endless for your b&w toning and with the current versions of printers (manufactured in the past 5-7 years), you can print dead-on neutral, depending upon your paper.
Keep it in RGB and print warm or cool on a recent printer, whatever your heart desires!
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The most sophisticated and variable way to do these kinds of splits is with Studio Print since you can partition each channel in the software and and blend various hues right in the software with corresponding values in the prints. This is what Tyler does along with custom mixing hues by hand before they are put in the ink carts. This is amazing and can be super subtle, but there is a huge learning curve and a lot of experimentation involved and it is not for most people. The advantage of doing it that way would be to develop several hue/split combinations ( environments ) to choose from on the fly for different projects. Unless you have a lot of time and a lot of patience I wouldn't suggest getting involved with this kind of work flow.
What you can do though is load various hues from different sets into various ink carts and blend them in printing. Since you have 7 of them you have a lot of possibilities there and that is easy and you only need the shareware QTR. That is essentially what the Special Edition set is. I find the Special Edition set very beautiful but also too warm for most of what people like. For me I like the pure carbon warm set on matte papers only. That has a kind of platinum-palladium feel but with much greater dmax.
What you could do is start with the Carbon set ( if your making only matte prints ) or the Warm Neutral set ( both matte and gloss ) and progressively become more neutral by mixing the neutral set or the Selenium into it. The Selenium set will give you a little more pinkish highlights, like traditional selenium toning and thus a more noticeable split. Something like 1-2-3- carbon or warm neutral, 4 -5 50% carbon or warm neutral and 50% neutral and 6 and 7 neutral or selenium. The smartest and easiest way to come up with such a formulation is to by a cheap used 2200 or 2400 or something like that and use the refillable ink carts for it. Inkjet mall sells some small ones that are very easy to deal with. I bought the inexpensive continuous flow ink system for a 2200 from MIS with the little bottles and it has worked perfectly for years. The advantage to the smaller carts though is you use a lot less ink to experiment with. You can buy buy the various hues in different size bottles. If you try all this with a big printer you are going to go through a lot of ink before getting there. With a small printer hardly any at all.
Others can comment more than me but I find the gloss fiber prints with Piezography are much warmer than with matte papers with all the inksets. I don't know if you will find a pure neutral that way, but you can certainly do that with matte papers.
john
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Jon was working on a dual quad set that you could mix at will with the qtr sliders. Select one or the other, blend at will, including highlight, mid, and shadow exclusive percentages. This would be ideal for most wanting hue flexibility. I don't think it's official yet, but I might recall they can set you up on it with an inquiry.
Yes, any of these sets on a PK paper, then treated with GO, are much more "colorful" than the same set on matte. Since most sets are warm, even the selenium is reddish, gloss prints are warmer for sure.
Tyler
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I was just wondering why they hadn't set up something like with the QTR sliders since they are so variable. If they had presets it could be easy.
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well, for Ergosoft Switzerland.. I'd like to say us few mono ink users are much more than a minor irritant for them but I'd be a liar. Their approach all along seems to have been.. give us every conceivable control over the hadrware they can, without having much interest in what we do with it..
I'd be lost without it, but we're pretty much on our own making it work for unusual setups.
Another aspect of using it "unusually", is to assign a spot channel to an ink tank and control how that ink is used tonally in the in the spot channel in PS.. Ashes and Snow stuff was done that way, and what Jon was doing with those beautiful splits when we were all there together was also done that way. My figure study in "taste like chicken" was also done that way.
Fun printmaking stuff.
Tyler