Luminous Landscape Forum
Raw & Post Processing, Printing => Printing: Printers, Papers and Inks => Topic started by: Mike Guilbault on April 09, 2013, 02:15:20 pm
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How long should you let a print cure before placing behind glass to avoid out-basing? (using Epson UltraChrome HDR inks).
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Mike
I have found it varies by ink load in that a print with a lot of solid colors especially blacks will take longer.
I try to wait at least 5 days and set the print up to dry with newspaper on top to help wick out the glycols. Newspaper works great and will not transfer to the print. Laying a sheet of glass on top will also help.
You can try heating the back of the print to speed up the process or set the print in a heat press for about 5 minutes at about 185 degrees.
Out gassing is the only real issue I have with RC paper.
Paul Caldwell
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wow.. that long! I thought it was in the neighbourhood of 24 to 48 hours.
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With Epson luster prints I have found a couple of days seems pretty safe. It depends a little on room humidity and temperature, as well as whether there is anything to assist (such as some type of paper, air circulation, heat, etc). It also depends on the frame/matting combination. We have many that leave our shop that are framed only 4 or 5 hours after printing, and really haven't seen any brought back with the glass fogged. Most are double matted which may help since it can absorb some of the gas and moves the print further from the glass. .
This is one reason I use EEF instead of luster. costs a little more but has a little nicer texture, almost identical look, and because it's fiber I haven't seen the problem even if framing a few hours after printing.
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and because it's fiber I haven't seen the problem even if framing a few hours after printing.
What has fibre got to do with it? Both Epson Lustre and and Epson Exhibition Fiber are wood pulp fibre, and a paper like Canson Platine Fibre Rag is cotton fibre.
Brian A
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What has fibre got to do with it? Both Epson Lustre and and Epson Exhibition Fiber are wood pulp fibre, and a paper like Canson Platine Fibre Rag is cotton fibre.
Luster is an RC/plastic coated paper and the ink on front can not outgas from the back of the paper because of the paper acting like a vapor barrier. EFP is a fiber based paper and the glycols can escape out the back of the paper much like watercolor paper.
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thanks guys.. that helps quite a bit.
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I only stopped having outgassing problems when I started dry mounting Premium Luster. After three days air drying, one press without tissue to flatten and drive out moisture, then the attachment pass a few minutes later.
FWIW, am seeing noticeable fading on acrylic glazed and matted Premium Luster prints displayed in fluorescent lighted offices after about 4 to 5 years. Coated and glue-mounted, OBA canvases in the same offices are still OK.
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@Paul2660 - I would not use newsprint to help in drying your prints. Even though you might not see any ink transfer, newsprint is pretty acidic and could be causing other long term problems. It's far better to get some acid-free interleaving paper and use that instead. You can reuse it and it's not all that expensive.
@bill t - not surprised at all by the fading in an office setting. I've got about 10 prints hanging up in my former employer's office and they are all now at the five year mark. A couple of them are showing some slight fading but the ones on OBA-free paper seem to be doing quite well. Most office lighting is pretty bad in terms of impact on prints.
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Alan:
Thanks for the tip, can you list some brand examples? Newspaper is acidic for sure.
Mike, the post on Epson EFP, is a good point. It's also one of the only papers I have found in large sheets and every once and a while Atlex will have them on sale. Someone already mentioned Canon Platine, I love it 100% cotton with a similar finish to Epson EFP. Platine won't out gas to the front and has a nice semi-gloss finish. You can also consider Canon's Baryta photographique paper, however it's alpha cellulose not 100% cotton. I feel it has a more pure glossy finish, and it is very easy to scratch, either in the printer or when mounting.
Also, Breathing Color's Vibrance Rag, a newer paper. It's also 100% cotton, but has a more aggressive finish.
Of course this is off topic as you are using RC paper. All of them will out gas to some extent. I have pulled back and remounted enough prints that for commercial work I no longer quote it, and use a fiber based paper.
Paul Caldwell
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Alan:
Thanks for the tip, can you list some brand examples? Newspaper is acidic for sure.
Paul Caldwell
Paul, I purchase mine from Archival Methods (http://www.archivalmethods.com/) and they have all popular sizes.
Alan
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Alan,
Thanks for the link, I will pursue these.
Paul Caldwell
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Good points Paul. I'm going to switch to a fibre based paper for this type of work. Now I wish I hadn't bought that 24" roll of Premium Lustre!
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I may be in a minority but I absolutely love Museo Silver Rag, it's all cotton and has the best black of papers I've tested.
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Luster is an RC/plastic coated paper and the ink on front can not outgas from the back of the paper because of the paper acting like a vapor barrier. EFP is a fiber based paper and the glycols can escape out the back of the paper much like watercolor paper.
So the question here is not whether they are 'fibre based', but whether they are RC (plastic coated)? Cotton fibre or wood pulp fibre, it doesn't matter.
Brian A
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Is there a fibre based paper available in 10"x100' (or any other length) rolls? I print tons of 8x10s for corporate clients and have been using the Premium Lustre. What are the alternatives? For the volume I print, I need rolls.
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Is there a fibre based paper available in 10"x100' (or any other length) rolls? I print tons of 8x10s for corporate clients and have been using the Premium Lustre. What are the alternatives? For the volume I print, I need rolls.
Off hand I can't even think of a 13 inch roll paper that isn't resin coated.
Brian A
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That's what I was afraid of.
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Is there a fibre based paper available in 10"x100' (or any other length) rolls? I print tons of 8x10s for corporate clients and have been using the Premium Lustre. What are the alternatives? For the volume I print, I need rolls.
Mike, use your 44" printer as it was designed. 4 up in the ten inch dimension and 5 up in the eight. Works perfectly.
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Problem with that is the cutting afterwards. I don't have a large cutter, so the 10" roll required only one cut across the 10" width to produce perfect 8x10s.
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At one time I was dumb enough to make postcards with my 44" printer. I had a "master page" with 2 pixel "tick marks" around the horizontal and vertical edges. The "Snap" was set up so I could very quickly simply drop properly sized images into the snap grid. Used a 2" wide x 48" Alvin stainless steel cutter to slice them up on a cutting matte. With a little technique it was easy and the cuts accurate enough for a true bleed look. Hint...don't cut all the way to the edges, use that extra 1" border all around to keep the whole thing cohesive, even as you start to lift out prints when you start to do the slices at 90 degrees to the first ones.
There was company a few years ago that specialized in cutting exotic fine art media into 8, 10, 13, etc inch rolls. Bought my 7800 from them. I guess they're gone now.
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Problem with that is the cutting afterwards. I don't have a large cutter, so the 10" roll required only one cut across the 10" width to produce perfect 8x10s.
Mike, it's exactly the same. Only one cut. Print them 5-up, printer cuts off the strip, you use your utility knife and a straight edge for the other cut. Same as you have been except you can actually find 44" stock to use. - Jim
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hmmm... now you got me thinking Jim... but you're still wasting 4" of paper. I set up a paper size on the 10" roll for everything from 1 8x10 to 20 8x10s at at time. So I'm only loosing about and inch of paper even on the 20x 8x10 output using normal cut. With the number of 8x10s I produce, that unused paper adds up.
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So have a look at the price difference between 10 inch and 44 inch paper, per square foot – that four inches maybe taken up by the cost differential.
A good paper trimmer, Dahle or Rotatrim, will outlast your printer by several decades.
Brian A
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Good point... I'll do some checking
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So what if you use 17" for 2at 8" wide at a time and trim them with a small paper cutter... Or 3 wide for 24" if they're not borderless. If a 10" roll will work, it would seem a 24" would, also.
Just a thought...
Stuart
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Guess I'm just lazy. ;) It took me a few days to get the 10" roll printing perfectly, i.e.. perfectly centred without using the Expand printing option (which would throw off the 8" side) including a slight shift of the left margin, again to make it perfect. With finding a roll of 10" paper would be so much easier... but alas, that is not my lot in life. Didn't win the $63M in last night's 649 lottery either. Life's a beach.
Seriously though, I will look more into this once I decide if a need to switch from EPM. thnks for the encouragement.
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Guess I'm just lazy. ;) It took me a few days to get the 10" roll printing perfectly, i.e.. perfectly centred without using the Expand printing option (which would throw off the 8" side) including a slight shift of the left margin, again to make it perfect. With finding a roll of 10" paper would be so much easier... but alas, that is not my lot in life. Didn't win the $63M in last night's 649 lottery either. Life's a beach.
Seriously though, I will look more into this once I decide if a need to switch from EPM. thnks for the encouragement.
Atlex sells 16" EPM rolls. Only have to have one cut and no waste.
http://www.atlex.com/epson-ultra-premium-photo-paper-luster-16-x-100ft-roll.html
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Problem is I'm trying to find something other than Premium Lustre. I'd just go with the 24" rolls in that case. I'll have to order some samples and try a few.