Luminous Landscape Forum

Equipment & Techniques => Motion & Video => Topic started by: KevinA on April 08, 2013, 02:42:05 pm

Title: More Blackmagic
Post by: KevinA on April 08, 2013, 02:42:05 pm
http://www.blackmagicdesign.com/uk/products/blackmagicpocketcinemacamera/
Title: Re: More Blackmagic
Post by: fredjeang2 on April 08, 2013, 03:07:44 pm
THIS... is a bomb!
I always wanted a miniature high performance camera and the closest I could get in that spirit was a GH2. But the Panas, because of their pro market protection politics, have some serious limitations on purpose. This is way more what I was looking for. (although instead of Prores I would have frankly prefered DNxHD but at least it's 422). Log, I applaude. Raw, I applaude twice. 220MB/s in Prores, that's more tan enough for broadcast. In CC the image will stands still.

This could even threaten seriously the Canons and cameras like the AF100 and FS100. Price is ridiculous !

It will obliged Panasonic to be less conservative in their comming GH line and force them to accept the current stream. We will all benefit of that.

This is going to sell like pancakes all over the world. The best bang-for-the-buck since years. It could become a cult camera.

No surprise if we won't be able to buy one for months, doubt that BMC will be able to feed the demand.


That's what Panasonic never endeed to understand (that's what the GH3 should have been and not again the same 4.2.0 8bits, no log saga). Now they got it.
If they don't react very soon to that and bring the GH4 to the same league in video is that their strategy dept are monkeys.

Oh, I thought the downside would be the powering but no! There is a 12V Jack.

BRAVO!

Ps: It remains to be seen the LUT support. Maybe NAB will tell.
Title: Re: More Blackmagic
Post by: fredjeang2 on April 08, 2013, 04:25:03 pm
It's going to be the walkarround camera of Red users.


Small, elegant, powerfull, and truly usable for high-end.
Title: yet More Blackmagic: Super 35mm format, EF & ZE mount, US$4000
Post by: BJL on April 08, 2013, 05:49:34 pm
... and it big brother, in Super 35mm format: http://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/blackmagicproductioncamera4k/
For US prices and details all three models, see http://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/
Title: Re: More Blackmagic
Post by: michael on April 08, 2013, 06:08:55 pm
The Black Magic Pocket Cinema Camera (BMPCC) is going to kick some serious ass in the DSLR and CSC marketplace.

If it delivers, and if BM delivers this summer (their track record isn't that good) the majors such as Panasonic are going to have to rethink their video strategy big time. Raw video and MFT lens mount with electronic control and 13.5 stops of DR for $995. Pretty slick and aggressive.

I'll take two please.

Michael
Title: Re: More Blackmagic
Post by: Chris L on April 08, 2013, 06:56:17 pm
If this is anything like the BMCC then I will get it as my B cam. I got my BMCC in December and am blown away by the DR and file quality. It is the only digital capture device that has "looked like film" for me. It looks like 35mm color negative film. And I am only shooting Pro Res.
Title: Re: More Blackmagic
Post by: MrSmith on April 08, 2013, 06:57:38 pm
I want one. The sensor size doesn't bother me, fast lenses are not expensive and I guess it will work with the metabones speed booster. The dynamic range and ability to grade without breaking up will be a big plus compared to working with DSLR. I hope it lives up to the hype.
Title: Re: More Blackmagic
Post by: fredjeang2 on April 08, 2013, 07:07:23 pm
the majors such as Panasonic are going to have to rethink their video strategy big time. Raw video and MFT lens mount with electronic control and 13.5 stops of DR for $995. Pretty slick and aggressive.

I'll take two please.

Michael


My thoughts exactly.

This is going to be a cult camera. I'll take 2 also.

Does someone knows what will be the exact crop factor with m4/3 lenses?



Holy crap! Those specs are profesional specs except the connections at less tan 1000 bucks. The footage will truly be mixable with Alexas and Red cameras for an HD output.
No hassles in color correction. It can be powered by the industry available devices.

And Michael, it will probably be more suitable for interviews also. Now that you use the multicam in FCPx, we will have Lu-La videos like Hollywood prods with cams everywhere.

BMC is also walking on Red Land with the big brother.
Title: Re: More Blackmagic
Post by: KevinA on April 09, 2013, 04:50:32 am
Will Pana's stabilised lenses work with this?
I think I might just order the camera and take a chance on the negatives.
Title: Re: More Blackmagic
Post by: Pete_G on April 09, 2013, 08:35:16 am
Love it. The size and simplicity...and price. This is the movie equivalent of the Sigma DPxM (but no fixed lens).
Title: Re: More Blackmagic
Post by: fredjeang2 on April 09, 2013, 11:23:26 am
The only limitation is that cinema DNG isn't currently supported by a lot of NLE. But that's going to change.

Resolve of course (that acts as a RCX for DNG), and FCPx (no comment Chris, no comment...)

Not always Resolve is the best option for everyone, specially for the transcode. The ideal would be to have Access to the source material
and the metadatas within the editor.
Also, not everybody would choose Resolve to CC (I don't) and it makes it almost an obliged step with DNG wich means a learning curve
just to Access the format. But as the format is open, this situation will fortunatly change soon but this is still the wild west.

We really need the major NLEs to adopt once for awhile this open format as a standart RAW.

Ok, FCPx users have a sweet advantage there. ???
Title: Re: More Blackmagic
Post by: Pete_G on April 09, 2013, 02:01:19 pm
Fred, (Good to see you back here BTW)

Resolve 9 is pretty straightforward now for creating dailies, the more advanced stuff is a bit of a learning curve I'll agree, but I can't see how they could make those kind of features really simple.

Check out the Avid site, they have announced Media Composer 7, available in June. One of the big features seems to be a more advanced AMA, where it seems you
can set Avid to transcode in the background while still editing, and it would seem that linking back and forth to original camera files is far more advanced.

If you are on MC 6.0 then now is a good time to upgrade to 6.5 as you will then be entitled to a free upgrade to 7.00. I just done that.

Oh..and BTW, the RAW support for the Blackmagic camera would appear to be coming later...whatever that means.
Title: Two jello-free global shutter options, BlackMagic and RED
Post by: BJL on April 09, 2013, 03:10:25 pm
Another thing about that $4,000 Super-35mm format Blackmagic Production Camera 4K is that it has a global shutter.
http://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/blackmagicproductioncamera4k/techspecs

Meanwhile, RED has also added a global shutter option through this LCD shutter adaptor (the approach used for super hight speed still cameras)
http://www.engadget.com/2013/04/08/red-unveils-the-motion-mount/
but that adaptor alone costs $4,500, more than the entire BlackMagic Production Camera body!

Before anyone complains, I am sure that RED offers some significant quality advantages which make it preferable for sufficiently high-end applications like motion picture production, and the "BPC 4K" sensor is actually smaller than true Super 35mm, but at the level of television production and such, prices and sizes might be moving down fast as new competitors with new ideas enter the field.

What do the folks in this forum who do videos for commercials think?
Title: Re: More Blackmagic
Post by: fredjeang2 on April 09, 2013, 04:16:54 pm
Fred, (Good to see you back here BTW)

Resolve 9 is pretty straightforward now for creating dailies, the more advanced stuff is a bit of a learning curve I'll agree, but I can't see how they could make those kind of features really simple.

Check out the Avid site, they have announced Media Composer 7, available in June. One of the big features seems to be a more advanced AMA, where it seems you
can set Avid to transcode in the background while still editing, and it would seem that linking back and forth to original camera files is far more advanced.

If you are on MC 6.0 then now is a good time to upgrade to 6.5 as you will then be entitled to a free upgrade to 7.00. I just done that.

Oh..and BTW, the RAW support for the Blackmagic camera would appear to be coming later...whatever that means.

Thanks for the kinds words Pete.

I am on MC 6.5 already.

On the coming 7, wait, this only is on Beta. I've been asking today and there is very Little conclusions yet to take.

What is sure is that the bins would act as a watch folder and you can create custom metadatas to apply batch actions (that shouldn't be limited to transcode, see my post further) to all the material dropped into the bins even with the application closed.

But the remaining questions are the LUT and CDL supports and this point isn't clear yet. Yes there will be LUT and CDL support but how will that be integrated into the new bins structures that's another story
and for now all we can do is wait.

The very good news is that even if it's still HD, at least the Pan&Zoom is reso independant so more than HD is croppable without loosing reso anymore. It was time, but better late tan never.

In fact, I was expecting a DS remake and that Avid would compeat with Autodesk (because the DS CC is better than in Smoke and the platform already exists) but it seems that it's not going to happen and seems that its destiny is to "die". They merged MC with Symphony, now Symphony being a boost option. It was logical, but the DS "abandon" surprised me a lot.

Strategicaly, it Seems that Avid has considered a better bet to replace DS by...Resolve. It's a mixed bag decision IMO. The thing is that Resolve lacks compositing capabilities that has DS. I would have understood more this decision if they did a "replacement" with Scratch, but Resolve is basicaly a CC App. It's still the wild west and for now many questions remain without answers.

About the BMC support, it means for ex that if they've done the homework properly, not only we would transcode DNG from AMA instead of from Resolve, wich is very welcome, BUT (and IF...) also that we could load LUT-CDL generated in Resolve without needing to send the timeline in Da-Vinci, just metadatas Exchange file.  So an operator completly independant can work on individual clips on Resolve and batch apply the generated looks in MC automatically in elected clips (that shared the same color decisión) and applied in the edited log sequence (with just a refresh sequence if they keep the same implementation as current) without the need of roundtripping. So it would reduce the roundtripping necesity to tasks like mask+track etc...but not more for basic CC. It would be a bit like working with RMDs but instead of RCX, with the power of Resolve.
But this is not confirmed yet.
What seems to be more likely is that the roundtrip will be cleaner and easier, but it's probably gona take some time before engineers reach the ideal robustness. So for me, zero rush to upgrade to 7 until they enhance it a bit.
Title: Re: More Blackmagic
Post by: Stefan.Steib on April 09, 2013, 05:38:32 pm
Well it happens faster than I thought. Global shutter with 4 k and at this data rate means a larger res chip with it and slower frame rate is probably coming soon.
And again it is driven by the Video and film people.
And even better: the price tag is amazing.
The screens are on rollout e.g. here and others:
http://store.sony.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CategoryDisplay?catalogId=10551&storeId=10151&langId=-1&identifier=S_4KTV

Maybe prores video has already started killing photography........

Greetings from Germany
Stefan
Title: Re: More Blackmagic
Post by: fredjeang2 on April 09, 2013, 06:03:47 pm
Well it happens faster than I thought. Global shutter with 4 k and at this data rate means a larger res chip with it and slower frame rate is probably coming soon.
And again it is driven by the Video and film people.
And even better: the price tag is amazing.
The screens are on rollout e.g. here and others:
http://store.sony.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CategoryDisplay?catalogId=10551&storeId=10151&langId=-1&identifier=S_4KTV

Maybe prores video has already started killing photography........

Greetings from Germany
Stefan

Hi Stefan, nice to see you here.

So, are we going to have a Hartblei cine gear ? Well sure that Hartblei lenses are killers mounted on a Canon video because their quality is stunning.

I agree that were the buzz is right now is in video engineering.
Title: Re: More Blackmagic
Post by: Stefan.Steib on April 09, 2013, 06:25:50 pm
it´s funny that several journalists are now writing about  how unneccessary 4k or even 8k res  is.
I can as well remember when HD video was starting the prognosis was the same- too expensive, not enough content...... bla, bla. bla

 ::)

Blackmagic is a hot company. I would wish I could talk to them, must be interesting people who are so focused on their own thing.
I can remember when Digital photography was new, there was the same enthusiasm, Leaf comes to my mind and Dicomed and the early Phase One.

And yes, I am looking into something video, but not what people may expect. The Flashes that we sell now are just a start into this direction.

Greetings from Germany
Stefan
Title: Re: Two jello-free global shutter options, BlackMagic and RED
Post by: fredjeang2 on April 09, 2013, 06:26:37 pm
What do the folks in this forum who do videos for commercials think?

I'd go Alexas in rental in Prores workflow. Gorgeous, straightforward.

Not that I don't like Red. On the Contrary, but personaly (again this is just me), I don't really get yet their color science. The way they market it is very weired and still results to me confusing.

The only thing would be that Graeme Nattress write a complete book on that, but Red color science is IMO a Little "weired".

Red users will say noooo of course.
Title: Re: More Blackmagic
Post by: fredjeang2 on April 09, 2013, 06:30:29 pm


And yes, I am looking into something video, but not what people may expect. The Flashes that we sell now are just a start into this direction.

Greetings from Germany
Stefan
That's great to hear. It's what makes it and keeps it alive and the good thing is that you got that push, it will work.

I'm sure that if you do something, it's going to be special, like Hartblei is already in camera still. Specialized camera for special high-end needs.

Really nice to see you're in the fload of all those changes in imagery.
Title: Re: Two jello-free global shutter options, BlackMagic and RED
Post by: Pete_G on April 09, 2013, 06:59:29 pm


What do the folks in this forum who do videos for commercials think?

Well I don't shoot adverts, but I do cut them, and for my money (without going into all the technical stuff) I think Alexa images just look better than other systems, more like film. While, in photography, I have absolutely no problem with digital at all, in motion pictures I'm still sitting on the fence, I love the film look and am waiting for digital to really prove it's worth. Perhaps in film we've had to suffer, for many years, the awful technology of video; a truly second rate imaging system. Only now, in the last couple of years, is electronic motion picture imaging becoming decent.

What I really like about the BM Super 16 camera is, not that it's a good professional tool, but that it (sounds like) a damn good "camcorder", to use a derogatory term.

As for all this 4-5K stuff, it's just marketing gone mad. Who cares? HD is fine for pretty well everything at the moment - I'd like to see better films being made, rather than sharper ones.
Title: Re: More Blackmagic
Post by: KevinA on April 10, 2013, 02:42:30 pm
I'm sure this is not going to be perfect, I'm sure it will need work arounds and will leave me scratching my head in bewilderment. All the same I just ordered one. My big worry is rolling shutter.
Here's a thing, by the time I have bought lenses for a super 16 I will not be a million miles away from the 4k using it with my Canon lenses.
I reckon my Retina and Thunderbolt can handle super 16 prores, I think to handle those 4k would require a lot of investment.
So Super 16 it is.
Title: Re: More Blackmagic
Post by: Stefan.Steib on April 10, 2013, 06:13:29 pm
For those who want to see some more stuff and discussions about Blackmagic and 4+8k see on facebook
https://www.facebook.com/cinema.camera?group_id=0
https://www.facebook.com/UltraHiDef?group_id=0

And then this : Develloped by NHK Japan Television - as a study of technical status.
8K HFR CAMERA NAB Show debut!
It has a 63mm 33million pixels single plate CMOS sensor developed by NHK Engineering System,Inc
with 7680×4320 of active resolution at 120fps (HFR) in a 12bit BitDepth with 60p images a second. And a PL lens mount.
1920×1080 resolution LCOS (Liquid Crystal on Silicon) EVF
http://cinescopophilia.com/astro-design-debuting-an-8k-camera-head-and-1080p-lcos-evf-at-nab/

The infrastructure is also develloped already
http://www.nab.org/documents/newsroom/pressRelease.asp?id=2847

It´s coming. FAST

Greetings from Germany
Stefan
Title: Re: More Blackmagic
Post by: John.Murray on April 11, 2013, 12:58:49 am
The Black Magic Pocket Cinema Camera (BMPCC) is going to kick some serious ass in the DSLR and CSC marketplace.
..I'll take two please...
Very Impressed!  Been on the fence re: Canon vs: M43 (GH2/3) for some time, I'm GILBMR (getting in line behind Michael) and ordering *one*. ;)
Title: Re: More Blackmagic
Post by: fredjeang2 on April 11, 2013, 04:28:30 am
The only thing is that we might not get it
Before december.
The entire galaxy has ordered it.
Don't know how BM will be able to supply
The demand.
Title: Re: More Blackmagic
Post by: Ben Rubinstein on April 11, 2013, 11:48:37 am
What are people going to be doing about wide FOV lenses?
Title: Re: More Blackmagic
Post by: Morgan_Moore on April 11, 2013, 11:57:18 am
panny 7-14

various machine vision lenses
Title: Re: More Blackmagic
Post by: fredjeang2 on April 11, 2013, 01:00:56 pm
Very límited fast wides.
My biggest concern is in the Resolve side dependance.
I know it's really good but I just don't like the
Implementation interface.
I wish it was more like a Nucoda.
I had great expectations on the Nuke Hiero,
But the 5000 euros cost just for Hiero froze
My buzz. The only alternative that I find atractive
Is the new Scratch. Not as specialized in cc than resolve,
But much more versatile.
Title: More Blackmagic: using C-mount 16mm format lenses?
Post by: BJL on April 11, 2013, 03:51:03 pm
What are people going to be doing about wide FOV lenses?
Maybe people with that need will step up to the still quite moderately priced US$4,000 BlackMagic Production Camera: http://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/blackmagicproductioncamera4k/

Also, what about using 16mm format C-mount lenses? These are already being used with adaptors on m4/3 cameras, but with some vignetting problems that this camera's smaller format should avoid.
Title: Re: More Blackmagic: using C-mount 16mm format lenses?
Post by: fredjeang2 on April 11, 2013, 04:06:01 pm


Also, what about using 16mm format C-mount lenses? These are already being used with adaptors on m4/3 cameras, but with some vignetting problems that this camera's smaller format should avoid.

That's where people will look for. But this market is unfortunatly speculative. Already, in the era of the GH2, because of its capacity of recording the center part of the sensor, many people were looking for those (many didn't vignette and are fast so they could get ultra-fast long focal ) and it boosted the C-mount vintage market to over-priced.
No need to say what could happen with this super16mm DNG. If you want to e-bay, it's right now. And the offer is quite limited. The good units are now rares and over expensive for what they are and there are a lot of garbage circulating.
I bet you anything that in a question of weeks, this vintage market will turn crazy because of the BMC.
Title: Re: More Blackmagic
Post by: Ben Rubinstein on April 12, 2013, 03:49:41 am
Are there any pro quality and current production wide C mount lenses?
Title: Re: More Blackmagic
Post by: EgillBjarki on April 14, 2013, 12:15:11 pm
Step forward in affordable high quality gear for sure. Can't wait to see what this thing can do in the hands of a creative talent!
Title: Re: More Blackmagic
Post by: fredjeang2 on April 15, 2013, 06:34:24 am
High quality is each time more affordable.
It happens in softwares too.

All this video business is profundly changing
And the players won't be the same as today's.

The national teevee produces now old fashioned
Series the old way at milionaire costs that nobody
Watch anymore. People prefers wheeler dealer or the first
48 hours
. The mammouth time is gone and only
Survive because of governamental help that desperatly
Need them to control mass minds.

Those huge, highly trade-unioned and costly structures
are so big that very slow to follow the stream that moves at the speed
of light. They still have no rival in big events live coverage,
and quality documentaries but they catch less and less
interest among the viewers.

Things are moving also in the cine. More and more people are
tired of big Hollywood productions content and there is a growing demand
for quality independant filmaking production and distribuition.
The fact that independants will be able to produce motion viewable
in theaters at costs each time lower will IMO change the rule game
as well. Hollywood will still have no rivals in entertainments like Marvels,
but I do think that the concept of talents itself will be profundly
affected.


All those changes are profund and not reversible.

This BM (that represents where the stream goes inevitably)
will force the majors to rebuild their politics
If they want to compeat.
They won't be able anymore to protect on purpose their pro market
because the concept itself of what is "pro" and what it costs is
changing.
We will all benefit. Thank god to creative engineers and small
visionary companies.

Prince (the musician) understood all that many years ago.
Title: Re: More Blackmagic
Post by: Jim Pascoe on April 15, 2013, 10:04:42 am
Isn't a big problem for many people going to be lenses?  The sensor on the camera is 12.48 x 7.02mm, compared to Micro 4/3 at 17.3 x 13mm. Which means that wide-angle is going to be a real problem for me.  I'm sure it is technically great, but I can't see it replacing a GH2 or GH3 for the time being.  Perhaps though it heralds a new era.

Jim
Title: Re: More Blackmagic
Post by: fredjeang2 on April 15, 2013, 12:02:12 pm
Isn't a big problem for many people going to be lenses?  The sensor on the camera is 12.48 x 7.02mm, compared to Micro 4/3 at 17.3 x 13mm. Which means that wide-angle is going to be a real problem for me.  I'm sure it is technically great, but I can't see it replacing a GH2 or GH3 for the time ] being.  Perhaps though it heralds a new era.
 ]
Jim
Talking about the GH2, I have a good news.

Yesterday was digging into the hacks. The intra and GOP1
Are really pushing the bundaries further.
It's particularly noticiable in post. Image doesn't fall appart
So easily as it occurs with avchd. I've been testing one
That's called "cluster moon gop1" from driftwood. No crash on
Scandisk 30MB/s. There are several intra gop1, you should
Give them a try.(with intra no less than 100mb/s).
Title: lenses for Super 16mm format: Zeiss Ultra 16 series, for example
Post by: BJL on April 15, 2013, 12:21:22 pm
Zeiss still offers its Ultra 16 lenses for Super 16mm format, going as wide as 90º with a 6mm lens:
http://lenses.zeiss.com/camera-lenses/carl-zeiss-camera-lenses/cine_lenses/ultra_lenses/ultra_16.html
These are in PL lens-mount: adaptors for m4/3 body-mount exist.

This about matches the FOV of 14mm in Super 35mm format (the sensor format of 12.48 x 7.02mm is very close to half the width of super 35mm cine-camera format), which is as wide as the Zeiss Master primes go, for example. For zooms, the Panasonic 7-14 goes wider (83º) than any super-35mm zoom I know of.

By the way, there are a lot of C-mount lenses for so-called 1 inch format, which is just slightly larger that super 16mm, but most seem to be for surveillance or machine vision, so maybe not of great quality, and not geared for cinematic focusing.
Title: Re: Two jello-free global shutter options, BlackMagic and RED
Post by: Peter McLennan on April 15, 2013, 06:40:07 pm
As for all this 4-5K stuff, it's just marketing gone mad. Who cares? HD is fine for pretty well everything at the moment - I'd like to see better films being made, rather than sharper ones.

Agreed.

Just back from NAB and I must say that 4K looks pretty nice on a big screen, especially if the source material is digital. No projector weave, no noise no grain.  Pristine.

That said, I'd bet that, on the average cinema screen we've been watching the approximate equivalent of 2K imagery.


Title: Re: More Blackmagic
Post by: Chris Barrett on April 18, 2013, 11:06:23 am
It's going to be the walkarround camera of Red users.


Ha!  Exactly.  I've pre-ordered one.  Now I just ahve to decide on glass.  A PL adapter makes sense for me, but am also looking at Voigtlanders f/0.95 Noktons and old Angenieux C Mount Zooms.

This is gonna be fun!
Title: Re: More Blackmagic
Post by: fredjeang2 on April 18, 2013, 12:17:38 pm
Fun ?

Watch out guys! With CB
Involved in the c-mount
Vintage market, prepare
Your wallets.

If there is One good unit
Left we will be lucky. At
Least will know WHO is
The cause.  ;)
Title: Re: More Blackmagic
Post by: KevinA on April 18, 2013, 02:05:33 pm
What is the crop factor of super 16 with full frame (35mm) lenses.
Thanks
Title: Re: More Blackmagic
Post by: Morgan_Moore on April 18, 2013, 05:35:23 pm
about 3?

abelcine.com/fov

Title: Format factor of 2x compared to 35mm movie format
Post by: BJL on April 18, 2013, 08:53:09 pm
What is the crop factor of super 16 with full frame (35mm) lenses.
Why compare to the 36x24mm still camera format that is of little relevance to motion photography? A more interesting comparison is to 35mm movie format, frame width about 24 to 25mm: for one thing Super 35mm format cine-camera lenses are far more likely to be of interest on this movie camera than 35mm still camera lenses.

This camera's 16mm format is about half of Super 35mm format.
Title: Re: More Blackmagic
Post by: John.Murray on April 19, 2013, 01:10:26 am
I'm considering the M.Zuiko 17mm F1.8 - should make for a compact package.  I am curious about barrel distortion on some of these m43 lens' - anybody experience this?
Title: Re: More Blackmagic
Post by: KevinA on April 19, 2013, 06:30:26 am
I asked the question wether 50fps might a possibility, this is the reply:-

"Currently the Pocket Camera is not specified to support 1080p50 frame rates, and at this time we have made no announcement that this may be possible in the future. As such, I would be unable to comment whether this product will, or whether it might be able, to support this video format in the future, until any such formal announcement is made."

Ok, I was with not likely until the last bit " until any such formal announcement is made". :-)

Title: Re: Format factor of 2x compared to 35mm movie format
Post by: KevinA on April 19, 2013, 12:56:47 pm
Why compare to the 36x24mm still camera format that is of little relevance to motion photography? A more interesting comparison is to 35mm movie format, frame width about 24 to 25mm: for one thing Super 35mm format cine-camera lenses are far more likely to be of interest on this movie camera than 35mm still camera lenses.

This camera's 16mm format is about half of Super 35mm format.

'cause I have a lot of lenses for 35mm FF and I wondered what they would convert to on S16, to see if any would be useful.

Kevin.
Title: Re: More Blackmagic
Post by: fredjeang2 on April 19, 2013, 01:16:53 pm
If it's about 3x, it tough because then looong tele are difficult to stabilize in motion and their use is limited by space. Already with m4/3 we are on the usefull limit with the FF lenses.
Wides alternatives are not legion and the good ones expensives.

C-mounts not expensives

http://kevincameras.com/gallery/v/movie_len/angenieux/10_18/

Arri

http://kevincameras.com/gallery/v/movie_len/angenieux/59_18/

etc...

etc...general movie lenses and then you can search (there are 6 pages, see bottom page, each brand with album with lenses)

http://kevincameras.com/gallery/v/movie_len/
Title: Re: More Blackmagic
Post by: Chris Barrett on April 19, 2013, 07:51:29 pm
Those Angie primes look really sweet.  With the BMDPCC and a few of those you could have a high quality HD production package in a shoulder bag  ;)
Title: Re: More Blackmagic
Post by: Peter McLennan on April 19, 2013, 08:55:41 pm
Or in the front pocket of my hoodie. :)
Title: Re: More Blackmagic
Post by: RobertJ on April 26, 2013, 03:47:34 pm
Crop factor for super16 in relation to 24x36 still photography is 2.88 I think.

Look on ebay for Super16 Zeiss SuperSpeeds and Optar Illumina lenses.  They are f/1.2 (T/1.3) lenses.  There is an 8mm Illumina and a 9.5mm Zeiss.
Title: Re: More Blackmagic
Post by: KevinA on April 27, 2013, 07:03:50 am
Thanks,

 I can't think the crop is going to be to big a deal for me. I do use super wide a lot on my still images, that's to tell a story in one shot.
I know I'm a moving image novice but I do have the option of panning to show the environment and honestly I think it should make it more interesting than a super wide (nice option to have). I think a range from 12mm to 200mm will do me for starters without buying more lenses. If the IS works with mtf lenses that could be a reason for buying more. The 12mm ain't a great sharp lens, but I have plenty of decent f1.4 lenses that are very nice and tilt shifts too.
The 17-40mm I can see being the main lens, cropping the extremes on that lens can only be a good thing.
I think I would be more inclined to buy lenses I can use on my 1D X and not have two sets of lenses and work the video around the gear I have.