Luminous Landscape Forum

Equipment & Techniques => Cameras, Lenses and Shooting gear => Topic started by: Fine_Art on April 07, 2013, 02:40:52 pm

Title: Samyang 24 T-S f3.5
Post by: Fine_Art on April 07, 2013, 02:40:52 pm
Has anyone seen this beast in the wild yet?

My replacement Sig 35 1.4 USM seems to be slow on order so I might cancel for this T/S lens if it is good. Recent Samyang lenses have a good reputation.

T/S functionality would be a big benefit to me.
Title: Re: Samyang 24 T-S f3.5
Post by: jwstl on April 07, 2013, 02:43:26 pm
Has anyone seen this beast in the wild yet?

My replacement Sig 35 1.4 USM seems to be slow on order so I might cancel for this T/S lens if it is good. Recent Samyang lenses have a good reputation.

T/S functionality would be a big benefit to me.

The release date was pushed back to May I believe. I've been looking for early reviews but haven't found any yet.
Title: Not seen in wild yet: Samyang 24 T-S f3.5 (May due date?)
Post by: NancyP on April 08, 2013, 06:27:29 pm
I am curious about this lens, but will wait for quite a while, as I am thinking about buying a Canon 6D for my first digital FF camera. Drat this Gear Acquisition Syndrome. I should not read detailed reviews.
Title: Re: Not seen in wild yet: Samyang 24 T-S f3.5 (May due date?)
Post by: ErikKaffehr on April 09, 2013, 01:05:53 am
Hi,

I have one on order since october. They are supposed to become available early may.

Best regards
Erik


I am curious about this lens, but will wait for quite a while, as I am thinking about buying a Canon 6D for my first digital FF camera. Drat this Gear Acquisition Syndrome. I should not read detailed reviews.
Title: Re: Samyang 24 T-S f3.5
Post by: RFPhotography on April 10, 2013, 11:23:59 am
There may not be reviews until people actually get the lenses in hand once it starts shipping.  I contacted the N.A. distributor about getting a loaner to do a review and they responded saying that response has been so strong the lens is oversold and they have none to provide for review purposes.  Can't verify validity, but that's what I was told.
Title: Re: Samyang 24 T-S f3.5
Post by: Ellis Vener on April 10, 2013, 01:21:20 pm
I got the same message from the distributor Bob.
Title: Re: Samyang 24 T-S f3.5
Post by: jwstl on April 10, 2013, 01:36:08 pm
If it's a good lens you would think that they would designate some for reviews in order to get positive press. However, if you are pre-selling a high number who needs positive reviews. I want the lens but I won't order until I see some real world results.
Title: Re: Samyang 24 T-S f3.5
Post by: RFPhotography on April 11, 2013, 07:42:23 am
At least they're consistent, Ellis.  :)
Title: Re: Samyang 24 T-S f3.5
Post by: lhodaniel on April 16, 2013, 03:01:11 pm
I've seen pics and rather poorly worded verbage from Samyang (probably translated) that suggests that this lens will have independently rotatable tilt and shift. I hope this is the case. I'd much rather have that capability than the electronic coupling of the Nikon PC-E's. Do any of you know whether or not the tilt and shift mechanism is relatively fixed on this lens?
Title: Re: Samyang 24 T-S f3.5
Post by: Fine_Art on April 16, 2013, 04:58:20 pm
The review I read said it is independent. Given it is a manual lens that is much easier then something to move an AF powered lens group while tilt/shift is used.
Title: Re: Samyang 24 T-S f3.5
Post by: mcbroomf on April 16, 2013, 07:52:03 pm
The photos also make it very clear that T and S are independent...I'm looking forward to my BH order to be fulfilled...  :)
Title: Re: Samyang 24 T-S f3.5
Post by: markmullen on April 17, 2013, 06:34:59 pm
I saw one (possibly the only one) at Photokina in Cologne in September. It looked a well made piece of kit but they wouldn't let me play with it.
Title: Re: Samyang 24 T-S f3.5
Post by: ACH DIGITAL on April 28, 2013, 04:54:34 pm
This is a Samayan 24mm TS lens sample page from Lenstip.com

I think is not a very good test or the lens is very bad. See for yourself and comment.

http://www.lenstip.com/2043-news-Samyang_T-S_24_mm_f_3.5_ED_AS_UMC_-_sample_images.html (http://www.lenstip.com/2043-news-Samyang_T-S_24_mm_f_3.5_ED_AS_UMC_-_sample_images.html)
Title: Re: Samyang 24 T-S f3.5
Post by: Kirk Gittings on April 28, 2013, 05:26:38 pm
Damnation! Shifted that lens is terrible. Can it possibly be that bad?
Title: Re: Samyang 24 T-S f3.5
Post by: ACH DIGITAL on April 28, 2013, 06:43:43 pm
Or is that bad or the guy accidentally tilted the lens..
Title: Re: Samyang 24 T-S f3.5
Post by: mcbroomf on April 28, 2013, 07:49:42 pm
On some of the photos there are 2 set, one set with shift only that are sharp edge to edge and another set where he has deliberately tilted the lens to go for the miniature effect.  Look for 2 photos with F8 for example and you'll see the difference.  He has not made any effort to take photos with a tilted focal plane to get near and far in focus.
eg
shifted but tilted OOF
http://pliki.optyczne.pl/sam24TS/2/sam24k_fot10.JPG
shifted only
http://pliki.optyczne.pl/sam24TS/2/sam24k_fot16.JPG
Title: Re: Samyang 24 T-S f3.5
Post by: ACH DIGITAL on April 28, 2013, 09:18:18 pm
Oh I see the second one you posted looks alright. Just needs some sharpening.

ACH
Title: Re: Samyang 24 T-S f3.5
Post by: BernardLanguillier on April 29, 2013, 05:57:55 am
Seems soft at f5.6 without any movement applied.

Difficult to know how well the focus was adjusted, but these samples are far behind what the Canon 24mm T/S and Nikon 24mm T/S can achieve when used correctly.

Part of it could also be the strength of the AA filter on the 1ds3 though, not sure.

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: Samyang 24 T-S f3.5
Post by: torger on April 29, 2013, 06:22:10 am
I think sharpened pictures are easier to compare. I think they shoot hand-held too (seen the shadow of the photographer in some other of their wide angle test shots, and not shooting at base ISO for these samyang test shots suggest hand-holding), so I don't think they're really into maximizing the quality in their test shots, unfortunately.

The Samyang has as many lens groups/elements as the Canon TS-E 24II and thus a bit more than the Nikon PC-E, hopefully this means that it's a highly corrected lens which exceeds Nikon PC-E performance so the D800 gets a better tilt-shift lens. But it's not only about design, it's about precision in manufacturing too. It shall be very interesting to see what it can do together with the D800.
Title: Re: Samyang 24 T-S f3.5
Post by: ErikKaffehr on April 29, 2013, 03:43:55 pm
Hi,

I tried some sharpening, but it seems that the images are out of camera JPEGs, they don't sharpen well.

Best regards
Erik


Seems soft at f5.6 without any movement applied.

Difficult to know how well the focus was adjusted, but these samples are far behind what the Canon 24mm T/S and Nikon 24mm T/S can achieve when used correctly.

Part of it could also be the strength of the AA filter on the 1ds3 though, not sure.

Cheers,
Bernard

Title: Re: Samyang 24 T-S f3.5
Post by: mcbroomf on April 29, 2013, 03:51:18 pm
http://www.ephotozine.com/article/samyang-t-s-24mm-f-3-5-ed-as-umc-lens-review-21853?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Ephotozine+%28ePHOTOzine%29
Title: Re: Samyang 24 T-S f3.5
Post by: RFPhotography on April 30, 2013, 07:29:35 am
Seems to perform pretty well in that write-up.  He says there is no auto-metering but other Samyang/Rokinon lenses have the option of a metering/auto-aperture chip for Nikon so I'd expect this one will too.
Title: Re: Samyang 24 T-S f3.5
Post by: jwstl on April 30, 2013, 12:41:09 pm
Here are some sample images from this lens via Pop Photo:

http://www.popphoto.com/gear/2013/04/sample-image-gallery-rokinon-t-s-24mm-f35-tilt-shift-lens
Title: Re: Samyang 24 T-S f3.5
Post by: Quentin on April 30, 2013, 01:11:32 pm
It looks remarkably like the Nikon equivalent.  Surely it must be made in the same factory. 
Title: Re: Samyang 24 T-S f3.5
Post by: RFPhotography on April 30, 2013, 02:55:41 pm
I'd highly doubt it. 
Title: Re: Samyang 24 T-S f3.5
Post by: BernardLanguillier on April 30, 2013, 07:09:19 pm
It looks remarkably like the Nikon equivalent.  Surely it must be made in the same factory. 

I believe that the Nikon 24mm t/s is manufactured in Nikon's Tochigi factory.

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: Samyang 24 T-S f3.5
Post by: Quentin on May 02, 2013, 11:49:22 am
Its is quite obviously the same design as the Nikon, so one wonders why that is the case - same designer, shared IP,  who knows?
Title: Re: Samyang 24 T-S f3.5
Post by: Paul2660 on May 02, 2013, 12:05:12 pm
Not quite the same design, as the Samyang will allow tilt and shift in the same plane by default. :D  Nikon's 24 has to be modified for this, either by Nikon or user. 

Are the number of elements/groups the same?  I have not checked on that yet. 

Still have high hopes for this lens.

Paul Caldwell

Title: Re: Samyang 24 T-S f3.5
Post by: Paul2660 on May 02, 2013, 01:00:56 pm
KLaban:


Thanks, excitement grows!

Paul
Title: Re: Samyang 24 T-S f3.5
Post by: langier on May 02, 2013, 01:18:02 pm
As I would say..

If you need one now, rent or buy the Nikkor and move on. If you can wait, try them both and then decide.

In the mean time, rather than sitting around in anticipation, go out and use what you have getting more practice and experience on what you already have and become a better photographer!
Title: Re: Samyang 24 T-S f3.5
Post by: Quentin on May 02, 2013, 01:46:21 pm
I have the Nikon but if the Samyung is better, I'd be interested.
Title: Re: Samyang 24 T-S f3.5
Post by: jwstl on May 06, 2013, 01:35:43 pm
Here's a "First Look" report from Lensrentals.com. It sounds like it's not great wide open but quite good stopped down to f/8-f/11.

http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2013/05/first-look-at-the-rokibowyang-24mm-f3-5-tilt-shift-lens-part-1#more-13648
Title: Re: Samyang 24 T-S f3.5
Post by: RFPhotography on May 06, 2013, 02:51:16 pm
Difficult to really tell what he's doing.  The sample images on PBase have no explanation of how they were shot.  There is no aperture information.  In a few of the images it appears nothing is in focus on the full size versions so what was he doing for focus?  Whatever it was, it apparently wasn't very good.  Can't put a lot of stock in this evaluation, I don't think.
Title: Re: Samyang 24 T-S f3.5
Post by: indusphoto on May 08, 2013, 06:49:19 pm
the digital picture has the resolution chart up along with shift (click on focal length drop-down to see shift options).

http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/ISO-12233-Sample-Crops.aspx?Lens=841&Sample=0&FLI=0&API=0&LensComp=0&CameraComp=0&SampleComp=0&FLIComp=0&APIComp=0 (http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/ISO-12233-Sample-Crops.aspx?Lens=841&Sample=0&FLI=0&API=0&LensComp=0&CameraComp=0&SampleComp=0&FLIComp=0&APIComp=0)

Pretty soft wide open, but by f/8 pretty good. Comparing to Nikon, Nikon shifted up and Samyang shifted down, are very good and very close.

http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/ISO-12233-Sample-Crops.aspx?Lens=841&Camera=453&Sample=0&FLI=1&API=3&LensComp=632&CameraComp=614&SampleComp=0&FLIComp=4&APIComp=3 (http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/ISO-12233-Sample-Crops.aspx?Lens=841&Camera=453&Sample=0&FLI=1&API=3&LensComp=632&CameraComp=614&SampleComp=0&FLIComp=4&APIComp=3)
Title: Re: Samyang 24 T-S f3.5
Post by: stevesanacore on May 09, 2013, 07:29:17 pm
It sounds to me that the Samyang is quite inferior to both the Nikon and Canon equivalent. I can say from experience with both camera systems and shift lenses that construction quality is of paramount importance with a shift lens. Optical quality is of course most important, but if a shift lenses doesn't lock or stay put with solid knobs and positive locks, they are awful to use. I just don't see a market for a cheap shift lens.

I guess time will tell...
Title: Re: Samyang 24 T-S f3.5
Post by: free1000 on May 10, 2013, 11:36:46 am
Completely agree. The performance would need to be stellar to overcome problems with tricky knobs.

I'm intrigued by the lens rentals test more for its implied comparison of the Canon 24 TS-E and the Nikon PC-24, the resolution numbers are very close in those tables, but I'd heard that the Nikon lens was inferior.

That article fails to mention whether he was testing the I or II version of the Canon TS,  the II is far superior.

Also the locking mechanism on the II is great. I had some real problems with the version 1  tilt knob coming unstuck on jobs when I was in a tight time situation, very dodgy.
Title: Re: Samyang 24 T-S f3.5
Post by: Glenn NK on May 10, 2013, 02:28:05 pm
That article fails to mention whether he was testing the I or II version of the Canon TS,  the II is far superior.

I believe that it's a Mark II.  I can see (barely) the II just below where the hood attaches.

It reads:  "CANON LENS  TS-E  24mm  1:3.5 L  II

Also, I'm sure that the original doesn't have a "I".

At least it sure looks like mine (a II).

One feature I really like is that it's just about as good at f/3.5 as it is stopped down - which can be useful to keep shutter speeds up on low light situations (it actually falls off a f/8).

http://www.photozone.de/canon_eos_ff/603-canon24f35tse2?start=2

Glenn
Title: Re: Samyang 24 T-S f3.5
Post by: NancyP on May 10, 2013, 03:55:21 pm
Due to the poor performance wide open, this lens would seem to be a one trick pony, the one trick being tilt for deeper focus for landscapes, which is a large part but not all of my interest in trying TS. I am put off a bit by Cicala's observation about the tiny plastic components in the tilt-shift-rotate components, and his crack that there may be a 3D printer fabrication market for these tiny bits in a few years. The Samyang-origin lenses don't have authorized repair in the US, so potentially frail tilt-shift-rotate components make me very nervous about buying this at present, particularly because I have never had a TS lens before. If a year from now there are no reports about the lens breaking, I might reconsider - but I may have saved more for the Canon 24TS by then. And it is possible that Samyang may fine-tune the design.

All that said, I have a lot of fun with the Samyang 14mm f/2.8.
Title: Re: Samyang 24 T-S f3.5
Post by: jwstl on May 10, 2013, 05:09:24 pm
Due to the poor performance wide open, this lens would seem to be a one trick pony, the one trick being tilt for deeper focus for landscapes, which is a large part but not all of my interest in trying TS. I am put off a bit by Cicala's observation about the tiny plastic components in the tilt-shift-rotate components, and his crack that there may be a 3D printer fabrication market for these tiny bits in a few years. The Samyang-origin lenses don't have authorized repair in the US, so potentially frail tilt-shift-rotate components make me very nervous about buying this at present, particularly because I have never had a TS lens before. If a year from now there are no reports about the lens breaking, I might reconsider - but I may have saved more for the Canon 24TS by then. And it is possible that Samyang may fine-tune the design.

All that said, I have a lot of fun with the Samyang 14mm f/2.8.

I decided to pass on this one. I love my Rokinon 14 and like the 85, and 35 but those were purchased for less than $400 ea. That I can justify not having a repair facility. Based on reviews, the tilt/shift isn't in the same class optically or mechanically as the 3 I have and it will cost me as much as I paid for the 3 others combined. It's just not worth it. I'll either put that $1000 toward the Nikon 24 PC_E or wait for Nikon to update it and buy the new one.
Title: Re: Samyang 24 T-S f3.5
Post by: RFPhotography on May 23, 2013, 08:20:14 am
The first part of the Lens Rentals write up wasn't overly helpful but they've added a second part where they take the lens apart to look at what's inside (http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2013/05/first-look-rokinon-24mm-f3-5-tilt-shift-part-2).

Generally they were pleased with the build quality and materials.  The plastic tabs are, apparently, plastic sheaths over metal tabs inside.  They could still break but if they're made of the high quality plastic other parts of the lens are then it shouldn't be a huge concern. 
Title: Re: Samyang 24 T-S f3.5
Post by: kers on May 24, 2013, 07:54:30 pm
I would say that with the sensors getting better en better it is obviously the lens is bound to be a one trick pony looking at pixel level..
In the case of this samyangTS lens - I think it is a good thing if they designed it to perform perfectly at f8 and f11..
flat field ( not sure) - really sharp corner to corner even shifted...good coatings...  would already be a very beautiful outcome...
After all you buy a 24mm MF lens in a way for only 1000€
Title: Re: Samyang 24 T-S f3.5
Post by: RFPhotography on June 06, 2013, 08:33:16 am
Ephotozine has posted their review of this lens (http://www.ephotozine.com/article/samyang-t-s-24mm-f-3-5-ed-as-umc-lens-review-21853).  Their resolution figures seem to be out of step with some of the others.  Given the possible issues with focusing I saw in one of the other reviews in this thread, I think I'd put more stock in the ephotozine results.  It may also point to manufacturing QC issues.

Not familiar with the Lenstips site so don't know how reliable it is.  If you can get past the hackneyed English, their results (http://www.lenstip.com/372.1-Lens_review-Samyang_T-S_24_mm_f_3.5_ED_AS_UMC_Introduction.html) seem more in line with ephotozine than The Digital Picture.

EDIT:  Sorry, forgot that the ephotozine review has already been posted.
Title: Re: Samyang 24 T-S f3.5
Post by: kers on June 06, 2013, 11:14:19 am
"Ephotozine has posted their review of this lens (http://www.ephotozine.com/article/samyang-t-s-24mm-f-3-5-ed-as-umc-lens-review-21853). "...


from this review i want to quote this:  ... for this review, the lens was tested on a Nikon D700 using Imatest..."

So excellent results on a 12 MP body...
Also you really have to do some very delicate testing for the differences are in the details among these 3 shift lenses   (nikon, Canon. samyang)
is all about field curvature etc etc... A simple Imatest result is not enough to rely on.
Title: Re: Samyang 24 T-S f3.5
Post by: RFPhotography on June 06, 2013, 07:37:42 pm
Yes, I know they used a D700.  The Digital Picture used, I believe, a 1Ds MkIII.  An additional 9 MP isn't much and shouldn't account for the significant differences in image quality results. 

As I noted, the results from the Lenstip site are more consistent with ephotozine than TDP and they also used a 1Ds MkIII.  They also tested the lens shifted.

Unless TDP got a bad sample, I don't think this lens is as bad as they make it out to be.

Has anyone done the more 'delicate' testing you mention?
Title: Re: Samyang 24 T-S f3.5
Post by: stevesanacore on June 06, 2013, 08:32:47 pm
I would think a real test would be on a D800E between the Nikon and the Samyang.
Title: Re: Samyang 24 T-S f3.5
Post by: qwz on June 16, 2013, 04:22:36 am
People on Dyxum report that on Sony A850/900 pentaprism blocks vertical rise around 9,5mm (of 12). Pity.
Title: Re: Samyang 24 T-S f3.5
Post by: jwstl on June 16, 2013, 12:15:38 pm
Here's another review of this lens:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/indepth/photography/hands-reviews/hands-review-new-rokinon-24mm-f35-tilt-shift-lens
Title: Re: Samyang 24 T-S f3.5
Post by: RFPhotography on June 18, 2013, 07:32:12 am
Good results.  He didn't seem concerned that the knobs and tabs were going to break imminently. 
Title: Re: Samyang 24 T-S f3.5
Post by: qwz on September 27, 2013, 03:25:31 am
Yesterday i bought Samyang 24mm Tilt-Shift F3.5 lens.
It's only option of wide-angle TS lens for Minolta|Sony A Mount (except cosmic-pricey 28mm SK).
Immediately i've discovered that i cannot use shift-RISE function more than 9.5mm (of total 12mm) because lens base barrel touching a pentaprism housing of my Sony Alpha a900 (the same will be at least with a700 and 850). Do they ever ever test this lens on this cameras?  Because User Manual shows only operation with oldish aps-c alpha 350.
Second discover is not so camera-specific: you forgot or miss or mis-design a counter-clockwise rotation. I CANNOT use diagonal shift movement fully. Not only because of Pentaprism.
I only can SHIFT top right corner OR lower left.
I have to rotate my camera and mount my tripod on the ceiling to proper use of DIAGONAL shift?
I think this is major fault, more significant than wide-open sharpness.
Title: Re: Samyang 24 T-S f3.5
Post by: robdickinson on September 27, 2013, 06:02:22 pm
Sorry but the fault is with the camera body not your new lens.

Look at nikons PCe 24mm it has the same problem with the d800.
Title: Re: Samyang 24 T-S f3.5
Post by: NancyP on September 27, 2013, 06:06:11 pm
Has anyone tried the Arax 35mm T/S lens?
Title: Re: Samyang 24 T-S f3.5
Post by: qwz on September 28, 2013, 01:02:09 am
Nikon D800 has onboard flash.
Nikkor PC 24mm has proper shift rotation.
Title: Re: Samyang 24 T-S f3.5
Post by: qwz on September 28, 2013, 01:06:09 am
Arax 35mm is not so good.
Much better is separate T|S adapter and 35-40mm Medium Format lens.
Pentacaon Six| Kiev mout has very good 55mm shift lens (under Mir or Arax name).
Title: Re: Samyang 24 T-S f3.5
Post by: ErikKaffehr on September 28, 2013, 10:42:54 am
Hi,

I have not tested the Arax 35. I have some experience with Arax tilt adapters, they work as advertised but have problems with flare. Just fine in studio/lab but not so good in real world.

I would consider Mirex adapters as they have a different construction.

Best regards
Erik


Arax 35mm is not so good.
Much better is separate T|S adapter and 35-40mm Medium Format lens.
Pentacaon Six| Kiev mout has very good 55mm shift lens (under Mir or Arax name).

Title: Re: Samyang 24 T-S f3.5
Post by: qwz on September 30, 2013, 01:25:43 am
(http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5472/10012435644_9ab4e2fa57_b.jpg)
Title: Re: Samyang 24 T-S f3.5
Post by: qwz on October 01, 2013, 02:15:59 pm
(http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5452/10038177664_4f6647e4e0_b.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/qwz/10038177664/)
DSC00480 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/qwz/10038177664/) by qwz (http://www.flickr.com/people/qwz/), on Flickr

(http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2881/10038181314_5975bdea2d_b.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/qwz/10038181314/)
DSC00495 (1) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/qwz/10038181314/) by qwz (http://www.flickr.com/people/qwz/), on Flickr