Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs – and Large Sensor Photography => Topic started by: FredBGG on April 06, 2013, 04:32:08 pm
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Transforming Large Format
Very interesting article by Pulitzer prize winning photographer Jack Dykinga.
http://www.outdoorphotographer.com/how-to/shooting/transforming-large-format.html?start=1 (http://www.outdoorphotographer.com/how-to/shooting/transforming-large-format.html?start=1)
He goes over his move from large format film to digital.
While he uses Nikon's the techniques he uses can be applied to other digital formats.
Some stunning imagery in the article.
(http://www.outdoorphotographer.com/images/stories/2010/march/jack-dykinga/Lago-Grey-Iceberg_Panorama1-lg.jpg)
(http://www.outdoorphotographer.com/images/stories/2010/march/jack-dykinga/Horseshoe-Bend-Panorama3-lg.jpg)
He describes how he did them.
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Thanks, nothing new, it is what many of us have doing for years. Glad he found out about these techniques and agrees with our old finding that stitching can help deliver un-matched image quality.
Although it is not the intend of the creators of this forum category, I even agree with you that stitching, by recreating a large virtual sensor is akin the medium/large format shooting.
Now, I feel that you should have posted in the shooting technique category. This is indeed mostly about stitching.
Cheers,
Bernard
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This article caused quite a stir when it came out more than three years ago. Some felt his remarks signaled his departure from Large Format, but he actually said he still shot a lot of his"fine art" images with the LF gear. The article offered an alternative approach using more accessible equipment when larger prints was the goal. Stitching is the way to take smaller captures and make quality larger composites. Obviously, much has changed in the past 38 months.
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Bernard,
Of course it belongs here: it proves again that MF is dead (and apparently has been for more than three years) and that Nikon rules. Isn't that what this forum is about?
Steve
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it proves again that MF is dead (and apparently has been for more than three years) and that Nikon rules. Isn't that what this forum is about?
Everything for the greater cause! :)
Obviously the D800 might be dead soon as well cause the Fuji X forums are filled with wedding photographers who dropped their Nikon gear and are now shooting X-Pro1/X-E1/X100s...
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Isn't the technique that Dykinga is describing (three years ago) essentially what the new Fotodiox Vizelex RhinoCam provides, taking full advantage of the image circle of a medium format lens for a DSLR camera?
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No, no, no, Steve. Medium format digital can't be dead yet. Not until we see the same photos that are posted on every thread like this. And sometimes the same photos get posted more than once in the same thread. Because you never can be too sure.
Only then can we finally conclude that medium format is dead. Just like what seems to happen on just about every thread now in this medium format digital back forum.
::)
Gosh, it's just like all that marketing BS----but from the other side.
;)
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Hi,
It shows that Jack Dykinga now uses Nikon D-series and stitching for some of his work. It may be interesting that he choose Nikon and not a technical camera with an MFDB, but my guess is that he started using Nikon for his high ISO work and was satisfied with the results. Than I guess he found a way of working that gave even better results.
I would guess that if I switched to Nikon it would not turn me into a Jack Dykinga, and I also guess that if I switched to Phase One it would not turn me into a clone of Guy Mancuso. Now, let me see, would I buy a Leica Monochrome, would it turn me into a new HCB?
Best regards
Erik
Transforming Large Format
Very interesting article by Pulitzer prize winning photographer Jack Dykinga.
http://www.outdoorphotographer.com/how-to/shooting/transforming-large-format.html?start=1 (http://www.outdoorphotographer.com/how-to/shooting/transforming-large-format.html?start=1)
He goes over his move from large format film to digital.
While he uses Nikon's the techniques he uses can be applied to other digital formats.
Some stunning imagery in the article.
(http://www.outdoorphotographer.com/images/stories/2010/march/jack-dykinga/Lago-Grey-Iceberg_Panorama1-lg.jpg)
(http://www.outdoorphotographer.com/images/stories/2010/march/jack-dykinga/Horseshoe-Bend-Panorama3-lg.jpg)
He describes how he did them.
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The technique is applicable to both 35mm DSLR as well as MFD.
So once Sgilbert and Ken Doo have finished maybe we can discuss what could be done to add to shift lens stitching.
Adapters to mount the lens to the tripod so you can move the camera or camera and back.
I think two other things would be interesting to.
A rudimentary stitching function in the backs or cameras (35mm) that can give the photographer a quick review of the stitched composition.
It would also be nice to have a rudimentary wide angle adapter to put infront of your tilt shift lens to simulate the wider coverage of a shifted lens/stitch
for composition purposes. This could also be with built in ND for live view on MFDB.
the new IQ260 having a more flexible processor could feasibly incorporate a rudimentary stitch function.
maybe even with a function that toggles from center frame to shifted frames in the overlapping area so as to see if there are any
subject movement issues, such as a tree moving in the wind.
It would be nice to have this on the LCD of the cameras.
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Hi,
I think there some lens mount adapters, at least one from Hartblei.de . Some TS lenses have built in tripod mount. An intriguing concept may be a automatic stitching back that moves the sensor automatically.
Now that we have mirror lens cameras with extremely short flange distances those can be adapted to almost anything. Pair that with some Chinese and Korean innovation and we are going to see a lot of new exiting products.
Best regards
Erik
The technique is applicable to both 35mm DSLR as well as MFD.
So once Sgilbert and Ken Doo have finished maybe we can discuss what could be done to add to shift lens stitching.
Adapters to mount the lens to the tripod so you can move the camera or camera and back.
I think two other things would be interesting to.
A rudimentary stitching function in the backs or cameras (35mm) that can give the photographer a quick review of the stitched composition.
It would also be nice to have a rudimentary wide angle adapter to put infront of your tilt shift lens to simulate the wider coverage of a shifted lens/stitch
for composition purposes. This could also be with built in ND for live view on MFDB.
the new IQ260 having a more flexible processor could feasibly incorporate a rudimentary stitch function.
maybe even with a function that toggles from center frame to shifted frames in the overlapping area so as to see if there are any
subject movement issues, such as a tree moving in the wind.
It would be nice to have this on the LCD of the cameras.
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Hi,
Pretty much, but the RhinoCam needs a Sony NEX camera.
Best regards
Erik
Isn't the technique that Dykinga is describing (three years ago) essentially what the new Fotodiox Vizelex RhinoCam provides, taking full advantage of the image circle of a medium format lens for a DSLR camera?
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Of course it belongs here: it proves again that MF is dead (and apparently has been for more than three years) and that Nikon rules. Isn't that what this forum is about?
Nope, this forum is about MF equipment.
Cheers,
Bernard
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Yawn. Time to go out and create photos with MF gear, not talk about Nikon gear in this forum. Flame bait.
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The D800 was initially exactly like a Mamiya because it had focus issues, unfortunately Nikon seems to have made it unsuitable for professionals with the help of a firmware update :)
Edmund
Yawn. Time to go out and create photos with MF gear, not talk about Nikon gear in this forum. Flame bait.
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So once Sgilbert and Ken Doo have finished maybe we can discuss what could be done to add to shift lens stitching.
So, here's a person calling the kettle black.
Let's see.. You've kept your ongoing diatribe on MF for several months now. You insult people, bully people and have generally made a pest of yourself. You've taken it to the brink then seem to know just when to back off. Almost every post you "contribute" to winds up with Google links and images from other people. These same posts also include how much better Nikon is over MF even when the OP hasn't asked the question. You continually turn just about every post into your ongoing dislike and how medium format is "dead".
And now you have the balls to cry about two people who speak out?
Yeah I might not have been posting much since I joined in 2005 however I've been watching and reading. I can't for the life of me understand why Michael has allowed you to remain here for as long as he has. Then again it's his house and his rules.
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Hi,
I think there some lens mount adapters, at least one from Hartblei.de . Some TS lenses have built in tripod mount.
Erik
Does anyone know if there are any tech cameras with a tripod mount on the shift lens section of the camera.
I know that for distant landscapes it's less important, but for landscapes with foreground elements or significant elements of depth
it would make a big difference.
While MFD has plenty of resolution with the 80mp sensors, but many out there have lower res sensors like the P45+ with long exposure etc that ask themselves if they can afford the upgrade or if it is worth it. Adding features to improve shift stitching would be an advantage to them.
Even if a landscape photographer does not need the extra resolution he or she might need the wider angle of view that a shift stitch can produce
without buying another lens. For example the Schneider 47mm with maximum shift on either side in a two or tree frame shift would produce
a nice wide angle of view.
An ND/wideangle adapter for enhanced composition simulating the wider angle of view and improving live view on older backs would be nice too.
This could be relatively inexpensive as it would not be used for the final photo and could have all sorts of CA and be on the soft side.
Schneiders partner Century optics is already makes various focal length adapters.
I wonder how a 4x5 58mm super angulon would achieve with a multi frame stitch from a P25 or p45.
Another interesting thing with stitching is using it to produce shallow depth of field or very shallow depth of field that can look very nice on landscape
especially if the in focus parts are particularly sharp. I think the possibilities are quite interesting.
Here is a nice example.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sissonphoto/7207597288/sizes/l/in/photostream/ (http://www.flickr.com/photos/sissonphoto/7207597288/sizes/l/in/photostream/)
Imagine this with an MFD sensor on a small image circel 4x5 lens.
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Fred, since when you have become a landscape photographer? You might be surprised how many of us that actually do this have heard of stitching and know all the ins and out about it. Seriously, what is the point of this thread?
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...I think the point of the thread is to continue the bullshit debate of how one format is better than another. In other words, more controversy. Time to ignore and move on.
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Fred, since when you have become a landscape photographer? You might be surprised how many of us that actually do this have heard of stitching and know all the ins and out about it. Seriously, what is the point of this thread?
Additional tools for stitching. I put in a call to Century Optics and they think that the wide angle preview for shift is a neat idea and fits their
marketing area really well as they are distributed by Schneider. I even suggested a crude zoom in the adapter with indicators for corresponding
shift numbers.
I stated at the beginning of the thread that what Dykinga is doing applies to say a D800 doing for Dykinga what his 4x5 did for him
at least in part and that the same can be applied to MFD digital, but going into the realm of the optical look of 8x10.
Regarding landscape photography I have always done a fair bit and have even been hired by the likes of L'Oreal at good commercial rates
to wonder around Hawaii, Miami and New Oreleans for a few days and shoot landscapes for look books I made for L'Oreal. Also early in my career I did a lot of Industrial photography
that included landscapes that included power stations etc.
here are some snapshots of the landscape for L'Oreal.
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8261/8628791950_ec7c295cc6.jpg)
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8115/8628777660_715f2fbc10.jpg)
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8111/8628776762_1d7a17e9cc.jpg)
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8121/8627665887_ee4d28c6bc.jpg)
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8543/8627664721_02632435ac.jpg)
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8406/8628792922_74e9936bf5.jpg)
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8392/8627663591_e6e550a1b8.jpg)
I also am lucky to live here and like to take Puppy landscapes too ;)
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8399/8629045398_6c5113d937_c.jpg)
Same place hiking with the Dogs and the bats....
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8380/8629296908_e7b9353533_c.jpg)
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Does anyone know if there are any tech cameras with a tripod mount on the shift lens section of the camera.
The ALPA Max has this, so yes - the lens stays stationary and the back can be shifted around the image circle of the lens. You can get some very nice high-resolution panos when using lenses with (relatively) large image circles. I've done quite a few.
You might find this interesting -
http://alpa.ch/en/news/2013/alpa-fps-re-using-gear.html?year=2013&num=1
Now. Imagine if someone comes out with a bellows adapter for ALPA that allows old LF lenses to be used on the cameras. A combination of that with the Max and FPS - that could get very interesting indeed :)
Regard,
Gerald.
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Gerald... that's what I'm getting at.
Think of what could be achieved with a 4x5 lens on a compact system like an Alpha Max, but extended for more than three captures.
My 8x10 Toyo has has 120mm of really controllable horizontal shift. The 8x10 actually uses a 4x5 front standard so slinging a nice 4x5 wide angle on it should be a piece of cake.
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Hi Edmund,
I think your European winter has frozen your brain if you think that the Nikon D800 is unsuitable for professionals.
My entire photography business is now solely reliant on my Nikon D800 and D800E cameras as my MF digital systems is now redundant due to the superior functionality and quality of these two cameras.
Cheers
Simon
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Forgive me getting off little off track but can someone point me to a good article, video, or book on shooting for and stitching of panoramas similar to what Mr. Dykinga is doing? I've never used this technique and would like to give it a try this year. It doesn't have to be for tilt/shift lenses only.
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The ALPA Max has this, so yes - the lens stays stationary and the back can be shifted around the image circle of the lens.
almost all tech cams built in the last years do this.... on many cameras the lens is stationary and you use the rear standard for shifting. this way you also can do "flat" stitching within the image circle of the lens and you can easily achieve 80 and more MP with olders backs in the ~33-39MP range. there's nothing new about it...
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Hi Edmund,
I think your European winter has frozen your brain if you think that the Nikon D800 is unsuitable for professionals.
My entire photography business is now solely reliant on my Nikon D800 and D800E cameras as my MF digital systems is now redundant due to the superior functionality and quality of these two cameras.
Cheers
Simon
Simon,
I was trying -unsuccessfully it seems- for humor. Meaning the D800 AF was a bit flaky initially, which I called "professional" by reference to my Mamiya which drove me crazy, and then Nikon went and fixed it with the latest firmware release, and now people are raving about the AF, which I called "unprofessional" to be funny. By the way I know the AF was off on some samples initially because I did my usual portrait tests, and then did not buy a D800, I got a D4 at the time, and that had really good focus and low light capability. My apologies for a somewhat cryptic post, no disrespect intended to the file quality of a camera which clearly rivals MF backs that sell at 10x the price.
As to my brain, I don't get to use it that much these days so I guess maybe I should advertise it out on ebay as "mint" :)
Edmund
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Forgive me getting off little off track but can someone point me to a good article, video, or book on shooting for and stitching of panoramas similar to what Mr. Dykinga is doing? I've never used this technique and would like to give it a try this year. It doesn't have to be for tilt/shift lenses only.
Mastering Digital Panoramic Photography by Harald Woeste is a good start.
Someone told me thare is a great German book too.
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Hi Eronald,
Totally get ya man.
Sorry for the frozen brain comment must be that daylight saving finished here yesterday in New Zealand and the days are getting colder so I am a bit of a crumpie bum this Monday morning. I had brain freeze on Friday night but that was Vodka induced.
All the best.
Simon
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Hi,
You could check out my article here for some ideas: http://echophoto.dnsalias.net/ekr/index.php/photoarticles/panorama-and-stitching
Best regards
Erik
Mastering Digital Panoramic Photography by Harald Woeste is a good start.
Someone told me thare is a great German book too.
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These are very nice Fred.
TM
Additional tools for stitching. I put in a call to Century Optics and they think that the wide angle preview for shift is a neat idea and fits their
marketing area really well as they are distributed by Schneider. I even suggested a crude zoom in the adapter with indicators for corresponding
shift numbers.
I stated at the beginning of the thread that what Dykinga is doing applies to say a D800 doing for Dykinga what his 4x5 did for him
at least in part and that the same can be applied to MFD digital, but going into the realm of the optical look of 8x10.
Regarding landscape photography I have always done a fair bit and have even been hired by the likes of L'Oreal at good commercial rates
to wonder around Hawaii, Miami and New Oreleans for a few days and shoot landscapes for look books I made for L'Oreal. Also early in my career I did a lot of Industrial photography
that included landscapes that included power stations etc.
here are some snapshots of the landscape for L'Oreal.
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8261/8628791950_ec7c295cc6.jpg)
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8115/8628777660_715f2fbc10.jpg)
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8111/8628776762_1d7a17e9cc.jpg)
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8121/8627665887_ee4d28c6bc.jpg)
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8543/8627664721_02632435ac.jpg)
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8406/8628792922_74e9936bf5.jpg)
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8392/8627663591_e6e550a1b8.jpg)
I also am lucky to live here and like to take Puppy landscapes too ;)
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8399/8629045398_6c5113d937_c.jpg)
Same place hiking with the Dogs and the bats....
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8380/8629296908_e7b9353533_c.jpg)
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These are very nice Fred.
TM
Indeed. Bravo.
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Indeed. Bravo.
Also shows how American cars of a certain age have far more dramatic value than most others. Imagine the same shot (second down) using a European one of the same era - maybe an old Mercedes just might pull it off. Rolls, Bentley? Nope, I don't think so.
Rob C
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Also shows how American cars of a certain age have far more dramatic value than most others. Imagine the same shot (second down) using a European one of the same era - maybe an old Mercedes just might pull it off. Rolls, Bentley? Nope, I don't think so.
Rob C
Gullwing Merc, Jag E-type, even open MG? Different composition for sure, but then I don't know why no one ever tries to picture your modern blonde getting out of an Isetta :)
Edmund
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Also shows how American cars of a certain age have far more dramatic value than most others. Imagine the same shot (second down) using a European one of the same era - maybe an old Mercedes just might pull it off. Rolls, Bentley? Nope, I don't think so.
Rob C
The Citroën DS perhaps?
http://www.carbodydesign.com/archive/2009/02/09-citroen-ds-most-beautiful-car/
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Nissan Fiagaro?
BR Erik
The Citroën DS perhaps?
http://www.carbodydesign.com/archive/2009/02/09-citroen-ds-most-beautiful-car/
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Aaah the Citroen DS. Amazing car. Hydrolic self leveling suspension. One set of headlights would turn with the steering.
(http://www.imcdb.org/i152752.jpg)
Such a cool style. Alas I could not afford one.... to many other priorities....
I ended up with the least photogenic car on the planet:
Citroen Dyan
(http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4005/4181356190_1f00c69b4e_b.jpg)
Brilliant clunker. Convertable, hatch back, air cooled two cylinder, electric AND CRANK START.
Never broke down. Went through spark plugs like crazy as it fired both plugs at the same time
wasting a spark on the exhaust stroke and at times creating interesting back fires.
It went well with my first MF a Yashica Mat 124
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The RhinoCam looks interesting - just a shame it's limited to a Sony NEX. And given that Bronica lenses are dirt cheap at the moment, it's also a shame that it doesn't have a Bronica adaptor either.
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Fotodiox is working on something similar for Nikon and Canon bodies.
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Aaah the Citroen DS. Amazing car. Hydrolic self leveling suspension. One set of headlights would turn with the steering.
(http://www.imcdb.org/i152752.jpg)
Bad childhood memories !!! My dad had one and I was always car sick !
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Mastering Digital Panoramic Photography by Harald Woeste is a good start.
Someone told me thare is a great German book too.
I was looking at that book but it's out of print and selling for way too much. I believe the German book you mentioned is the second edition of Woeste's book which appears to be available only in German.