Luminous Landscape Forum
The Art of Photography => The Coffee Corner => Topic started by: FredBGG on April 04, 2013, 12:23:40 am
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I saw this article in the Independant:
http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/nature/the-wrong-kind-of-photo-shoot-nikon-in-the-line-of-fire-over-rifle-sights-for-big-game-hunting-8556123.html (http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/nature/the-wrong-kind-of-photo-shoot-nikon-in-the-line-of-fire-over-rifle-sights-for-big-game-hunting-8556123.html)
The Japanese camera manufacturer makes a rifle scope designed specifically for killing large game, the £170 “Monarch African”.
Nikon’s marketing literature boasts that the scope is perfect “for those seeking their dangerous game adventure on the dark continent”
and is “the proven choice for dangerous big game hunting”, adding: “Africa has long been a continent of dreams for hunters around the world.”
First of all the term Dark Continent is plain offensive.
I was born in Africa and have seen the devastation caused by these rich "first world" tourist hunters, most of whom hide behind the guides they hire
and sometimes get killed.
These trophy hunters will pay $10,000 to go and kill an Elephant.
What is worse is that most of these hunts are what is known as "Canned Hunts" with bread animals
that are then setup in the wild to be shot by these so called hunters.
I'm posting this here because there are landscape photographers here that I know love Africa.
We also know that it takes more skill and courage
to take photographs of wildlife than shoot them with a high power rifle from a huge distance.
Also viewing Safaris have a far better impact on the local economy.
They are more involved with the local community doing far more good.
These people are a fine example:
http://www.safariprofessionals.com/pages/responsible-travel/impactonafrica.php
IF you tweet:
http://twitter.com/#!/@NikonUSA
Facebook:
http://www.facebook.com/nikon
Nikon makes great camera... They have a slogan I AM NIKON.
IF you don't like their support for Big Game Trophy Hunting,
Tell them they make great cameras, but that due to their support of Big Game Trophy Hunting you don't feel "I AM NIKON".
This is the Nikon we want:
(http://www.kruger-2-kalahari.com/images/gdt-iam-nikon_elephant.jpg)
(http://www.kruger-2-kalahari.com/images/gdt-iam-nikon_lion.jpg)
Big Game Trophy Hunting is more like:
I AM DEAD
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Hi Fred,
I share your views on the issue. At least in the sense that viewing is preferable to killing, and also that Africa is much more than a place to go and kill animals.
Today it is a different world than 100 years ago, or at least it should be another world.
Best regards
Erik
I saw this article in the Independant:
http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/nature/the-wrong-kind-of-photo-shoot-nikon-in-the-line-of-fire-over-rifle-sights-for-big-game-hunting-8556123.html (http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/nature/the-wrong-kind-of-photo-shoot-nikon-in-the-line-of-fire-over-rifle-sights-for-big-game-hunting-8556123.html)
First of all the term Dark Continent is plain offensive.
I was born in Africa and have seen the devastation caused by these rich "first world" tourist hunters, most of whom hide behind the guides they hire
and sometimes get killed.
These trophy hunters will pay $10,000 to go and kill an Elephant.
I'm posting this here because there are landscape photographers here that I know love Africa.
We also know that it takes more skill and courage
to take photographs of wildlife than shoot them with a high power rifle from a huge distance.
Also viewing Safaris have a far better impact on the local economy.
They are more involved with the local community doing far more good.
These people are a fine example:
http://www.safariprofessionals.com/pages/responsible-travel/impactonafrica.php
IF you tweet:
http://twitter.com/#!/@NikonUSA
Facebook:
http://www.facebook.com/nikon
Nikon makes great camera... They have a slogan I AM NIKON.
IF you don't like their support for Big Game Trophy Hunting,
Tell them they make great cameras, but that due to their support of Big Game Trophy Hunting you don't feel "I AM NIKON".
This is the Nikon we want:
(http://www.kruger-2-kalahari.com/images/gdt-iam-nikon_elephant.jpg)
(http://www.kruger-2-kalahari.com/images/gdt-iam-nikon_lion.jpg)
Big Game Trophy Hunting is more like:
I AM DEAD
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You are asking a company that comes from a country that supports killing whales in the Antarctic. I feel the Japanese care less about animals, and more about killing wild animals.
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What's the best trophy?
An image like this:
(http://images.nationalgeographic.com/wpf/media-live/photos/000/275/cache/cub-leaning-over-mother_27529_600x450.jpg)
National Geographic
Or this:
http://planetofthemonyets.blogspot.com/2010/04/how-to-skin-tiger.html (http://planetofthemonyets.blogspot.com/2010/04/how-to-skin-tiger.html) Tiger being skinned.
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You are asking a company that comes from a country that supports killing whales in the Antarctic. I feel the Japanese care less about animals, and more about killing wild animals.
Actually the majority of Japanese do not support killing of Dolphins or Whales.
http://www.takepart.com/cove (http://www.takepart.com/cove)
(http://www.takepart.com/sites/default/files/cove_infographic_thumb_480x315.png)
Just a few months ago I was out kitesurfing and several Dolphins chose to play around me bumping my board deliberately several times.
Several Dolphin Safari Viewing businesses have been started in the area where the cove was made.
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That's funny because the government pays for a good part of the whale hunts, and more then a few Japanese support it. its also sad donation from the US to help victims from the tsunami where funneled to the whale hunt security.
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Why is this posted in the medium format thread?
If OT, as it surely is, that's what the Coffee Corner is for. That's where you can get on the soap box, or high horse, and break the news to the rest of us that life is not fair or that the world is not just.
Or, perhaps, any reason is a good reason to insert Nikon, once again, into the medium format thread?
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Why is this posted in the medium format thread?
If OT, as it surely is, that's what the Coffee Corner is for. That's where you can get on the soap box, or high horse, and break the news to the rest of us that life is not fair or that the world is not just.
Or, perhaps, any reason is a good reason to insert Nikon, once again, into the medium format thread?
Slobodan. No need for sarcasm. No second motives here. I would think this puts Nikon in negative light if anything.
I don't think I can move it. Only option I can find is to lock it.
Maybe the moderators can move it or remove it as they see fit. It's OK by me either way.
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Nikon's marketing has never been the forte of the company... in this case it is pretty idiotic to have let that slip through in our age of ultra political correctness.
Most optics companies provide similar devices, the only difference is in the wording of their ads.
I also don't understand why this thread was started here.
Cheers,
Bernard
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Note to self: next time you go game hunting in Africa leave that Nikon rifle sight at home...
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Pentax and Zeiss make riflescopes (the Zeiss are very good too)
Maybe those upset with Nikon should start lobbying them too?
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Nikon's marketing has never been the forte of the company... in this case it is pretty idiotic to have let that slip through in our age of ultra political correctness...
Actually idiocy far outweighs the issue of political correctness.
Africa is not the Dark Continent there are probably more useful and productive things going on there than anywhere else in the world.
This is not an attempt to minimize the issues of the continent as a whole - I lived there for 30 years in South Africa that had much more than its share of problems, which are not resolved by any stretch of the imagination.
Wildlife photography is definately hunting with a camera, and historically ex big-game hunters have sometimes made very fine wildlife photographers, but the bigger philosophies behind hunting and photographing wildlife are just irreconcilable.
I shoot wildlife in the knowledge that many others, potentially, will have the pleasure of doing the same with the same animal.
In the context of Africa this is a much more sustainable and honest use of an extremely important resource.
Bluntly put, killing the animal as a trophy is selfish, no more and no less.
The amount of money changing hands does not alter this.
For Nikon they should be castigated for sheer stupidity and lunacy - ignorance should not be a defence here.
One billion residents of Africa, and countless animals, are owed an apology.
Tony Jay
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Why is this posted in the medium format thread?
+1
This place starts to look like a private blog.
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"First of all the term Dark Continent is plain offensive."
Antiquated yes, but offensive: I suppose if you don't know the history of the term. It was originally coined in the 19th century bu a European to describe a place Europeans knew very little about. Later is was used because of a lack of electricity made the continent dark on satellite images. Contrary to popular belief, it has nothing to do with race.
As for Nikon, yes it would be nice if they re-think their hunting products and marketing but picking on one company when so may are to blame is ridiculous.
The article states: "South Africa earns around $100m a year by sanctioning the hunting (which it classes as “eco tourism”), leading to the deaths of approximately 54,000 animals."
Where's the outrage against South Africa? Stop Nikon from selling this scope and you save a few hundred animals. Stop this "eco-tourism" and stop many thousands.
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Why is this posted in the medium format thread?
If OT, as it surely is, that's what the Coffee Corner is for. That's where you can get on the soap box, or high horse, and break the news to the rest of us that life is not fair or that the world is not just.
Or, perhaps, any reason is a good reason to insert Nikon, once again, into the medium format thread?
How dare you Sir!!!
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"First of all the term Dark Continent is plain offensive."
Antiquated yes, but offensive: I suppose if you don't know the history of the term. It was originally coined in the 19th century bu a European to describe a place Europeans knew very little about. Later is was used because of a lack of electricity made the continent dark on satellite images. Contrary to popular belief, it has nothing to do with race.
As for Nikon, yes it would be nice if they re-think their hunting products and marketing but picking on one company when so may are to blame is ridiculous.
The article states: "South Africa earns around $100m a year by sanctioning the hunting (which it classes as “eco tourism”), leading to the deaths of approximately 54,000 animals."
Where's the outrage against South Africa? Stop Nikon from selling this scope and you save a few hundred animals. Stop this "eco-tourism" and stop many thousands.
I know the history of the term. I was born in South Africa. There are plenty of words and traditions that are today unacceptable.
As far as outrage with South Africa like all countries there are different lobbies each with their own agenda.
While it's claimed that South Africa earns $100m a year for permitting the hunting thanks to the organized lobbying
(lobbying that is also financed by the gun companies) there is a huge buisness of viewing Safaris.
Being born in South Africa and in light of my family having taken in wild life that was in need of help I have protested the government many times.
I grew up with wild life around me as well as on our furniture. My father helped people rehabilitate wild animals and one performed
a cesarean on a big cat that had been run over by a truck saving one of the cubs that was later released in the wild.
I can still remember the loud rattling sound of it's purring.... my parents said I would always laugh and giggle when the rattling purring started.
My interest in photography has it's roots in my father being an amature wild life photographer...
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... our age of ultra political correctness...
Unfortunately, you are right.
However, whenever tyranny rears its ugly head, it's time for freedom fighters to rise and defend the freedom of speech and expression.
I am getting tired of those UPC high-horse riders. They seem to be everywhere, offended by anything. No word or action seems safe from their righteous indignation. There is always someone, somewhere, offended by something.
As long as hunting is legal, there will be companies supplying the tools for it. And not only it is legal, it is a legitimate activity just as well, up to a point, of course. Leave it to countries and their governments to determine the scope of it. And let them pursue illegal hunting mercilessly.
For the record, I do not hunt. I actually despise hunting with rifle scopes as cowardly. But I respect that other people have a different opinion and the right to exercise it.
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There are at least two people bound to be offended by something any given moment of any given day and thanks to social media and the general desperation for content, it'll be headline news no matter what the subject, or the validity of the offense.
PETA has become an opportunistic joke. Movie stars in fur coats and a corporation on safari, but funny I've not heard one word of outrage aimed at the FDA of the U.S. for trapping, shooting the adults and incinerating alive coyote pups in their dens. No food, no clothing, no trophy- just pointless butchery followed by an out of control increase in the smaller animal / rodent population.
I'll bet the anti Nikon group plays the soundtrack from the Lion King while they pontificate. I'd support using the Nikon scopes to hunt poachers- there are people who would pay big bucks to legally hunt humans- -and kill them - but no one wants to go that route. Pity. Animals thrive. Poachers die. Hunters get to kill something. Win win win.
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I grew up in Africa, I am Canadian, I don't like guns, and I don't like killing anything unless I am going to eat it. But a bit of a reality check...
Hunting license for an elephant is in the 40-100K range, depending on tusk size, NOT 10K. In most cases 50% goes to the local villages towards infrastructure programmes and the the remainder goes to the government. This is about putting value on something -- harsh, but true. Elephants are also culled in most sub-Saharan parks. Since hunting licenses with direct benefits to local villages was initiated some time ago, poaching rates declined as there was interest in protecting the "resource".
Before we judge, walk a mile in that old shoe...
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Unfortunately, you are right.
However, whenever tyranny rears its ugly head, it's time for freedom fighters to rise and defend the freedom of speech and expression.
I am getting tired of those UPC high-horse riders. They seem to be everywhere, offended by anything. No word or action seems safe from their righteous indignation. There is always someone, somewhere, offended by something.
As long as hunting is legal, there will be companies supplying the tools for it. And not only it is legal, it is a legitimate activity just as well, up to a point, of course. Leave it to countries and their governments to determine the scope of it. And let them pursue illegal hunting mercilessly.
For the record, I do not hunt. I actually despise hunting with rifle scopes as cowardly. But I respect that other people have a different opinion and the right to exercise it.
Slavery was legal and perfectly accepted by much of society.
The north was considered tyrannical for wanting the south to ban slavery.
Fighting dogs was legal.
Mixed race marriage was illegal.
Times change and progress is made.
Also I'm not advocating a boycott or anything against Nikon.
Just suggesting people tell them it's not cool if they don't
think it is.
I'm sure there are differences of opinion in Nikon itself.
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I grew up in Africa, I am Canadian, I don't like guns, and I don't like killing anything unless I am going to eat it. But a bit of a reality check...
Hunting license for an elephant is in the 40-100K range, depending on tusk size, NOT 10K. In most cases 50% goes to the local villages towards infrastructure programmes and the the remainder goes to the government. This is about putting value on something -- harsh, but true. Elephants are also culled in most sub-Saharan parks. Since hunting licenses with direct benefits to local villages was initiated some time ago, poaching rates declined as there was interest in protecting the "resource".
Before we judge, walk a mile in that old shoe...
My mother is South African, I was born there and lived in SA, Zimbabwe and Zambia. My family was involved with wildlife.
Don't believe what is put out by the Professional Hunters. They run these outfits for tourist hunters and have little or no respect for the animals or the locals.
After many years of action by reformists some progress has been made.
It is now illegal to drug animals to make it safer and easier for the so called hunters, but now what they do is "track" the animals with trucks and SUVs until
they are so exhausted that they slow down somewhat like a bull in a bullfight. Then to keep things legal they have the tourist hunter step a foot or two from the truck
to shoot the animal. However the new law makes an exception for shooting from the car if the animal is wounded. This is because these tourist hunters
often shoot so badly that the animals being hurt try desperately to get away and become very dangerous. So these animals once wounded
they can be hunted down from multiple vehicles. Wounded animals from trophy hunts have attacked villagers even days after being wounded.
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If you REALLY want to consider value-adding with wildlife then hunt with a camera.
That way the same animal can be hunted multiple times with no harm.
MASSIVE amounts of revenue can be generated as well as teach both locals and tourists about the value of wildlife as a resource - which it is.
Trophy hunting is a selfish exercise and contrary to any conservation principle because there is an essential disconnect between the hunter and the owner of the resource. The amount of money that changes hands is irrelevent and you can be sure that the money will not go where it is advertised to go nor have the beneficial effects you would like.
I am also South African so have some insight into this.
Tony Jay
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Slavery was legal and perfectly accepted by much of society.
The north was considered tyrannical for wanting the south to ban slavery.
Fighting dogs was legal.
Mixed race marriage was illegal.
Times change and progress is made.
Also I'm not advocating a boycott or anything against Nikon.
Just suggesting people tell them it's not cool if they don't
think it is.
I'm sure there are differences of opinion in Nikon itself.
What happened to the shades of gray?
Progress for some might not be so for others. Organic progress and mandated are too different things. Why stop with Nikon? Why not tour operators, air companies, God, etc?
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If you REALLY want to consider value-adding with wildlife then hunt with a camera.
That way the same animal can be hunted multiple times with no harm.
MASSIVE amounts of revenue can be generated as well as teach both locals and tourists about the value of wildlife as a resource - which it is.
Trophy hunting is a selfish exercise and contrary to any conservation principle because there is an essential disconnect between the hunter and the owner of the resource. The amount of money that changes hands is irrelevent and you can be sure that the money will not go where it is advertised to go nor have the beneficial effects you would like.
I am also South African so have some insight into this.
Tony Jay
Well put Tony.
It's also interesting that most of the people that run these Trophy Hunt Businesses
in Africa are not African. Some are shady characters that ran from their own country to escape prosecution
for hunting violation in Europe, the US and Canada.
Many animals are wounded but get away.
Here is one example. A lion that was so seriously wounded that it could not be released
back to the wild. He had back and nerve damage. My father treated this lion for it's back problems.
He made special tools to manipulate the lions spine.
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8535/8621485513_b33341119f_z.jpg[/url]It took a while to build up a relationship so as to let my father use the tools and a hammeron the lions back.[img]http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8532/8622597994_1e29b67f96_c.jpg)
Here is a Cheetah that was saved with an emergency cesarean from it's dying mother.
That's my father visiting the cheetah after it had to be transferred from out home to a center.
It was the last visit because the bond had to be broken. They are very affectionate cats!
I will never forget the loud rattling pure.
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8256/8621480735_d5c62b7f0c_c.jpg)
Another guest in hour house sharing a snack with out dog.
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8243/8621481733_e493ee8f33_c.jpg)
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What happened to the shades of gray?
Progress for some might not be so for others. Organic progress and mandated are too different things. Why stop with Nikon? Why not tour operators, air companies, God, etc?
Let me tell you something about shades of grey.
My father was one of the first Chiropractors in South Africa.
He was from a modest background and while his living was from treating white patients and he was not allowed to treat
both white and black patients. He continued to treat all patients, except those that would leave him due to him treating Blacks too.
This got him into trouble more than once eventually leaving South Africa. I like to think that it was people like my old man that contributed to change in South Africa.
I remember about one case where a Doctor left his practice to be substituted by another Doctor who took inspiration from my old man and he too treated all
patients. He had a rough time, but was eventually accepted.
Times change because people take a stance.
No one is saying to single out Nikon. The tour operators are the real problem, but I don't buy cameras from them, so they would not care what I or many other customers think.
Also large corporations have to justify their moves with the share holders. IfF Nikon decided to no longer back Trophy Hunting they could justify this with their share holders
by referencing the public opinion of their clients.
This also does not mean that Nikon has to get out of the scope market. They are not only used to shoot big game.
Both my father and elder brother were marksmen, my father having been in the Marines, but they both chose to shoot at targets with guns and
animals with cameras.