Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs – and Large Sensor Photography => Topic started by: Jeffery Salter on April 01, 2013, 03:58:09 pm
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Is it possible to have a Medium format Digital forum just for photographers who actually use and appreciate the format?
I come to the MF section of Lu_La to improve my MFD skills. Most photographers time is valuable, we really don't need to hear how a Go-pro or Nikon or Yashica camera is the new Viagra.
Is it possible that posters and writers who simply are trying to convert MFD users to 35mm do so in another area?
I'm not trying to step on the moderators toes or deny anyone an open forum. But the question begs to be answered that if you are so satisfied with your own 35mm system why spend so must time trying to convince others that they should use only 35mm. Go shoot some great pictures.
Regards,
Jeffery
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Try GetDPI.com. The MFD forums are excellent there.
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Is it possible to have a Medium format Digital forum just for photographers who actually use and appreciate the format?
I come to the MF section of Lu_La to improve my MFD skills. Most photographers time is value, we really don't need to hear how a Go-pro or Nikon or Yashica camera is the new Viagra.
Is it possible that posters and writers who simply are trying to convert MFD users to 35mm do so in another area?
I'm not trying to step on the moderators toes or deny anyone an open forum. But the question begs to be answered that if you are so satisfied with your own 35mm system why spend so must time trying to convince others that they should use only 35mm. Go shoot some great pictures.
Regards,
Jeffery
I don't think it's just about other formats, because we've seen this go on in this forum before and most people have multiple formats so there is some commonality.
I think this started up in the last few months as a crusade that is truly never ending.
IMO
BC
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Yeah, it will go away eventually. In the meantime shooting tethered with a D800 sucks compared to my H4D60 let alone the H3D31 ;D
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Is it possible to have a Medium format Digital forum just for photographers who actually use and appreciate the format?
I come to the MF section of Lu_La to improve my MFD skills. Most photographers time is value, we really don't need to hear how a Go-pro or Nikon or Yashica camera is the new Viagra.
Is it possible that posters and writers who simply are trying to convert MFD users to 35mm do so in another area?
I'm not trying to step on the moderators toes or deny anyone an open forum. But the question begs to be answered that if you are so satisfied with your own 35mm system why spend so must time trying to convince others that they should use only 35mm. Go shoot some great pictures.
+1
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I don't think it's just about other formats, because we've seen this go on in this forum before and most people have multiple formats so there is some commonality.
I think this started up in the last few months as a crusade that is truly never ending.
IMO
BC
Exactly,
The intrusion to other formats and comparatives and wars have always existed that I know here, and as James point, most users have multiple formats and systems (as it should be), included motion cameras because this industry-business isn't still only anymore.
The good thing of allowing this is that it avoids fanboyism, cultism of all kinds and I think that the moderators of this forum are doing a perfect balance not restringing topics too much.
The thing is that the overall tone changed to no fun, it becames most of the time a crusade, and IMO got to the point of really-non-sense.
It's to the point that now I almost feel sorry for the MF vendors. Not kidding. And to the point that I got such an indigestion of this magical D f.....k 800 that I simply refuse to buy one, even if it was the very ultimate best cam ever built, just for that! You know, too much advertising kills the ads. As we say in french: je peux plus la voir ni en peinture!
It's like people would jump into the Red forum with all the fanfare and would bomb the Red users with Alexas files and metadatas, it wouldn't last 5 minutes with JJ ;D
Ps: and also, I'd like to ad that after those D800 gamechangercultismadulation, what I see are big japanese trusts mass market products, and really, if there are still some people who make gear the craft way, even if it's for a bunch of old fashioned shooters that do not understand anything, and even if it's more costly, I wish we still can have that, otherwise this world would become really boring.
It seems that we have lost Aaton now in the digital transition. Yeah, a small Factory that was doing top cameras praised in Hollywood. What a shame!
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Exactly,
The intrusion to other formats and comparatives and wars have always existed that I know here, and as James point, most users have multiple formats and systems (as it should be), included motion cameras because this industry-business isn't still only anymore.
The good thing of allowing this is that it avoids fanboyism, cultism of all kinds and I think that the moderators of this forum are doing a perfect balance not restringing topics too much.
The thing is that the overall tone changed to no fun, it becames most of the time a crusade, and IMO got to the point of really-non-sense.
It's to the point that now I almost feel sorry for the MF vendors. Not kidding. And to the point that I got such an indigestion of this magical D f.....k 800 that I simply refuse to buy one, even if it was the very ultimate best cam ever built, just for that! You know, too much advertising kills the ads. As we say in french: je peux plus la voir ni en peinture!
It's like people would jump into the Red forum with all the fanfare and would bomb the Red users with Alexas files and metadatas, it wouldn't last 5 minutes with JJ ;D
Intrusion of other formats? Interesting that you bring this up when you posted this in another thread in the MF section titled: MF Entry with PhaseOne ? ... about an hour earlier...
I have filmed with a GF2 that I gifted to a friend who broke his camera. It was a very nice camera. They even made a hack for it with different flavours as the GH2 and it could climb to pretty high bitrates, takes PL lenses. Unfortunatly the footage even hacked couldn't stands with the Hacked GH2 and a real hassle to mix with because outputs were too different animals, but for a web it was perfect as I was doing 25p. I had one GF2 unit for filming in remote Little corners like inside a fridge etc...it worked brilliantly and now I sort of miss it because it was really usefull and could fit in a pocket and allowed crazy takes. (the kit lens, as for being a kit lens, is not as garbage as other brands kit lenses IMO). It also had some fancy color modes that could really look nice pre-graded footage just out-of the box with a Little bit of tricking the menu.
I by-passed the AVCHbloodyD because this horrible codec bands more than a Vasarely painting and hacked it in motion jpeg and it had a fantastic cine 16mm look. But the buffer didn't like it at all and takes had to be short.
Nice cameras the GF line.
It's a discussion forum, that is written... it has to be read. No one has to read what they are not interested in.
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Intrusion of other formats? Interesting that you complain about this when you posted this in another thread in the MF section titled: MF Entry with PhaseOne ?
Again, put your glasses and re-read. You don't read. You just interpretate. You got someone in your radar and bang, Needs big glasses?
I wrote "the intrusión of other formats always existed" then added "The good thing of allowing this is that it avoids fanboyism"
I got the adress of a good ophtalmologist in the US.
But I'm afraid that it is some other kinds of treatment that you'd need.
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It's a discussion forum and all sorts of things go on.
How about this.
Someone asked about moving to MF from 35mm DSLR for shooting stitched panos and asked about making bracketing adjustments.
I replied with information on electronic leaf shutters were in production and that are in development for MF lenses.
The next response was from a dealer that chose to "pre-emtively attack me" ... rather silly
Here are the three posts in order.....
Thinking about making the move into large format from a DSLR and have the following questions...
I shoot mainly panoramic with a pano head, I'd like to continue shooting panos this way so I don't require movements, portability is a major factor so I have been looking at the alpa TC and the arca swiss compact solutions. I don't have any experience with LF systems, but from what I have read it seems that the digital back cannot talk to the lens/vice versa, so A) lens exif data is not passed into raw file and B) you cannot control shutter and aperture from the back.
If this is the case how would you go about shooting HDR with AEB? Important for pano work. Also how would you do multi pass shoots where you need to change exposure settings without touching the camera?
I researched the electronic shutter lenses available, which suggests this is possible, but seemingly only via a laptop tether. Phase One tell me what I am trying to achieve is only possible with a system such as the Phase One DF camera which is able to interface with the lens.
Elliot Newman
www.elliotnewman.com
Rollei is comming out with an electronic shutter that has a control unit that it connected
to the camera via a wire. This may work for you. The controller does bracketing etc.
http://www.dhw-fototechnik.de/en/bellows-camera/lenscontrol-s.html (http://www.dhw-fototechnik.de/en/bellows-camera/lenscontrol-s.html)
http://www.dhw-fototechnik.de/en/bellows-camera/electronicshutter.html (http://www.dhw-fototechnik.de/en/bellows-camera/electronicshutter.html)
Have you had a chance to take actual photos with a medium format system yet? You may well find your desire/need to do HDR bracketing is greatly reduced or even eliminated when shooting with a good DB rather than a dSLR. There are tests (I'm sure Fred will be happy to jump in and post links to the 2-3 same tired tests he always does) which imply the usable dynamic range of a digital back can be matched with a dSLR. In my shooting, and in my experience working with hundreds of photographers on such dSLR>LFD transitions I can tell you this is not the case (though I'd greatly prefer to have you take your own tests to show yourself). There are scenes which still require multiple exposures to capture properly with an IQ180 for instance, but they are far less frequent than when using a standard dSLR.
All that said if you want to do AEB you will need an electronic shutter and a laptop or a MF system like the DF+. There are options out on the horizon for shutters which may allow iPhone control, but I suggest against relying on such promised/announced/possible systems; today there is no such option.
The Arca Swiss Factum (https://digitaltransitions.com/blog/dt-blog/arca-swiss) by the way would provide you several advantages above and beyond the Alpa TC:
- tilt on every lens, no adapter or special lens mount required
- rise/fall for perspective correction, whether or not you plan on using lateral movement for stitching you may still enjoy the ability to offset the horizon without introducing ill-perspective
- ultra precise focusing bayonet for both precision focusing and also for highly repeatable focus presets like hyperfocal
Why go and attack me while I am helping out with a solution from a MF manufacturer to one of his questions regarding his move to MFD.
I think with Copal getting out of the shutter buisness I think DHW will have a bigger market and that should lead to success for this electronic shutter.
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I think the forum is missing a good suddivision on threads. There should be a place for Professional Photography, IMAGES ONLY, regardless of format, where one can discuss creativity, etc.
And there should be the technical ones with camera oriented discussions.
This would be more healthy..
ACH
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I think the forum is missing a good suddivision on threads. There should be a place for Professional Photography, IMAGES ONLY, regardless of format, where one can discuss creativity, etc.
And there should be the technical ones with camera oriented discussions.
This would be more healthy..
ACH
Good point about subdivisions. The forum is very well made, but with the dramatic increase in quality of cameras the format differences are becoming less relevant.
I think that the real point to make is that it is about images and the technical discussions should be focused getting these images by any technical means
and one should be able to discuss this freely without any format fundamentalism and financial gains getting in the way.
No one has to read every post. There is even an option to ignore/hide certain users posts. Easy to setup and easy to reverse.
I also think that it is useful to readers to know about equipment that is in many ways up there with MF.
This is particularly of interest to many due to the very high cost of MF.
Times change and the discussion goes along with the times.
Heck... my first cell phone was a brief case with a handset. Now my cell phone sounds 10 times better, plays movies and costs 10 times less.
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Fred,
It's got nothing to do with your personal talent. You are and always will be a much better photographer than me and a lot of people. And I'm not in still business anyway.
It's got nothing to do with your technical apportations that can be truly interesting.
It's got nothing to do with the fact that one can honestly critise, give advice etc etc...
In my modest opinion, it's got a lot to do with the how. That's what, for me, is really painfull and brings a climate of tension in many of your posts and specially the ones related to MF.
I read your repply because I was almost sure you would have read what you wanted and started an attack, and I was right.
After my harsh attack on Testino's party, you deducted that was homophob and that it wasn't worth arguing with me. But the thing is that in the end you couldn't help it, because (IMO again) you generaly look for confrontations. Not only with me, each time you can. The tone of your posts with others MF have been sometimes in the same league and in the end people know you as the D800 "killer" or the Nikon agent.
Now, this ridiculous "ignore this user" (because it's hidden victimism) shows that you are playing a doble game and shows that something's wrong somewhere.
The result of that is that many people here, instead of taking your posts as they should, or feel advertion for them, or don't read them, or would smile thinking of the Nikon saga.
That's what I think, it only concerns my own position. But I think that you have a lot to bring, it's just the how and your personal motivations on MF that end to be too personal and frankly suspicious.
I don't care of the Nikon, or Phase, I don't shoot still anymore for sometime now as I'm involved into a different industry and I'm Brand agnostic. But I can understand why so much MF users are fed-up of the dslr saga.
You didn't create the dslr saga, it was there way before you, but you perfectionned it and brought it to some levels, I must admit, with a swiss watch precision.
But again, I think it's about the attitude with many other MF members that don't think like you about equipment, don't have the same motivations or agendas and simply aren't concerned about switching to dslrs.
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Why go and attack me while I am helping out with a solution from a MF manufacturer to one of his questions regarding his move to MFD.
I think with Copal getting out of the shutter buisness I think DHW will have a bigger market and that should lead to success for this electronic shutter.
I'm just curious, Fred, but how did Doug attack you when he wrote, "I'm sure Fred will be happy to jump in and post links to the 2-3 same tired tests he always does"? Isn't that what we have come to expect from you?
You do provide some good advice at times, but it does appear that you have a mostly negative bias toward anything other than your choices, the D800 or Fuji GX680.
Ed
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I'm just curious, Fred, but how did Doug attack you when he wrote, "I'm sure Fred will be happy to jump in and post links to the 2-3 same tired tests he always does"? Isn't that what we have come to expect from you?
You do provide some good advice at times, but it does appear that you have a mostly negative bias toward anything other than your choices, the D800 or Fuji GX680.
Ed
You missed part of his quote:
(I'm sure Fred will be happy to jump in and post links to the 2-3 same tired tests he always does) which imply the usable dynamic range of a digital back can be matched with a dSLR.
"tired tests"... what is that supposed to mean?
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Not really. I just forgot the ellipsis.
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You do provide some good advice at times, but it does appear that you have a mostly negative bias toward anything other than your choices, the D800 or Fuji GX680.
Ed
Hmm how about the bias towards gear many posters here SELL or is sold by companies they work with.
Interesting that I took a lot of flack for praising the Pentax 645D for it's weather sealing, despite I choose not to buy one.
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Do digital transitions sell Rollie products? ::)
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Bravo Jefferey! Some (actually quite a few) like to keep shouting "MF Moribund".
It gives them great satisfaction instead of going out to shoot some good pics...
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A discussion forum where everybody thinks the same and there is no criticism is not healthy. While I do like getdpi, I appreciate lula for allowing more diverse opinions.
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I appreciate lula for allowing more diverse opinions.
Yes, but at which expense?
Knowledgeable MFD users hardly post anymore because they don't want to get caught up in the D800 evangelism of Fred and a few others.
Respected members like bcooter seem to have left the forum. While diverse opinions are good fundamentalism is not.
I quite frankly don't understand these people. What are they trying to achieve? They have taken all the fun out of the forum.
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Yes, but at which expense?
Knowledgeable MFD users hardly post anymore because they don't want to get caught up in the D800 evangelism of Fred and a few others.
Respected members like bcooter seem to have left the forum. While diverse opinions are good fundamentalism is not.
I quite frankly don't udnerstand these people. What are they trying to achieve? They have taken all the fun out of the forum.
I agree, I only hope this blows over, the crazies leave soon and the real pros come back.
I really cant stand reading post from someone who does not truly understand the system.
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That's exactly what I think. No fun anymore and like you,
I don't understand what they trying to acheive.
Criticisms are always good, this Forum would loose a lot
If it was bunkered, Imo the story is not to transform it
Into a cultism either. But the tone and frecuency have
Become a never ending nonsense.
If some really want to campaign the magical Nikon
Over and over again, why don't they create threads
In other sections? Why in mf Forum ? Probably
Because there are personal involvements here.
I see a recurrent desperation to proove something at any
Price. Even if the dudes are right, or more exactly if it's
Right for them, it's gona be wrong for others.
I think that there is much more involved behind the scene
Than just gear attacks.
Ps: Cooter left ? Are you kidding me ?
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Yes I have an 8 x 10. Yes I have a 35mm. Yes I have a Go Pro. But this is what I F@#KING enjoy about my MFD. Currently a P40+ soon to be IQ260.
I can have a blast and shoot some action.
(http://www.jefferysalter.com/FTP/Salter_022113_253_LW.jpg)
No hyper sync. Just a good old fashion leaf shutter lens.
Turn around and shoot some "Beauty"
(http://www.jefferysalter.com/FTP/Salter_110312_231_LW.jpg)
Pack my camera, pack my clothes and a shower cap. Catch a flight to someplace dusty and wet. (With a touch of social upheaval)
(http://www.jefferysalter.com/FTP/Salter_071610_244_LW.jpg)
And by going to this MFD forum I learn and appreciate what the noted architectural, fashion and landscape photos who actually shoot do with their gear....
Enda Cavanagh, BCooter, Libby, KD, Torger, Joe Kitchen, CB, theguywitha645d, Guy Mancuso,Gerald D, Keith Laban, Paul Ozzello and many more who actually do more than photograph their mailboxes....
Thanks for sharing!
Regards,
Jeffery
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Do a search through the "recent images" topics (either pro or non-pro). There are hardly any (if at all) images posted there that were taken with a deeeighthundred or deeeighthundrede.
Can't think of any real explanation and TBH I don't care much. It seems as if the only images we see from the camera are ugly/ random/ repeated/ boring/ meaningless test shots posted all over the MF forums mostly by professional trolls or pseudo technical experts.
Those who actually USE the camera appreciate it for what it is and do not try to shove it down the throat of everyone else, most likely because they have the basic respect for other people's opinions and respect for the forum's community. They don't feel obliged to prove anything and would rather spend their time (and their investment) on taking pictures
Those of us who have been here long enough, we're just going to sit this one out and patiently wait for the baddies to go away...they always do. In the meantime perhaps we can all write to the moderators and suggest that they bring back the "Ignore" button...
Great stuff Jeffery!
Yair
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Yes I have an 8 x 10. Yes I have a 35mm. Yes I have a Go Pro. But this what I F@#KING enjoy about my MFD. Currently a P40+ soon to be IQ260.
I can have a blast and shoot some action.
(http://www.jefferysalter.com/FTP/Salter_022113_253_LW.jpg)
No hyper sync. Just a good old fashion leaf shutter lens.
Turn around and shoot some "Beauty"
(http://www.jefferysalter.com/FTP/Salter_110312_231_LW.jpg)
Pack my camera, pack my clothes and a shower cap. Catch a flight to someplace dusty and wet. (With a touch of social upheaval)
(http://www.jefferysalter.com/FTP/Salter_071610_244_LW.jpg)
And by going to this MFD forum I learn and appreciate what the noted architectural, fashion and landscape photos who actually shoot do with there gear....
Enda Cavanagh, James Cooter, Libby, KD, Torger, Joe Kitchen, CB, theguywitha645d, Guy Mancuso, Keith Laban, Paul Ozzello and many more who actually do more than photograph their mailboxes....
Thanks for sharing!
Regards,
Jeffery
Nice shots Jeffery. Pretty soon no more crop sensor. You'll love it.
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This is always the irony of the gear talk. Sure, I can make photographs with other cameras. But I don't enjoy it as much. Somehow that joy-deficiency does impact the results and the motivation. Can someone else recognizes what camera I used? Probably not, and if they do, they really need to get out more. But I see the difference, and an image has to get by me first.
I think GetDPI has made a great forum, you see images posted every day. Most of the questions are directly related to problems with gear. Yes, occasionally you get the MFD is dead threads. But you also get more threads on advice and help.
There are not a lot of places where you can find MFD photographers. LuLa is one, maybe the only other one. But is seems the folks at LuLa are still arguing if MFD is good enough. All the technical arguments just ignore that photography is subjective, just like any art. One data point does not define an image. Photography is more than optimizing MTF. And work is not viewed by an audience on a monitor at 100%, except on photography fora.
NOTE: I am starting to feel sorry for Fred. He has dug such a large hole that any comment he makes is taken so negatively, but not all his comments are negative.
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As I'm not involved anymore into the still imagery, and even when I was I used MF only during a very short time because we were shooting only Canons at the studio, wich doesn't give me any credit to actively
participate in a MF forum and should indeed stay gently in the motion forum of this site (and that's what I'll do from now) wich is were my world is.
However, as a reader, this MF forum has always be a great source of inspiration, good imagery that I enjoy to watch, relevant profesional knowledge, and even if I'm not involved into stills anymore, I could find lots of usefull posts worth the Reading for anybody interested in imagery and a general atmosphere of respect.
The wars between systems are not new at all. How many of those threads MR closed in the past when things were going too far and started to be meaningless, you remember? Graphics, bombings of pseudo-scientific stuff, attempts to demozided MF or trying to convince MF users to join the good side of the dslrs force have been on air forever.
However, the tones were very differents, sometimes even ridiculously funy. And all the wars of the past never provoqued such a heartily sick that many of the MF users are experiencing now, and readers like me too. It's because it's everywere now. Not just in special war threads like before but it smells from all pores in all the MF forum.
Now, each time someone posts something here, I'm waiting when will show-up something related with the f.....g bloody Nikon peice of s...t or some sort of dslr magicality to bomb the MF gear and demostrate how crap it is and how corrupted are the vendors etc etc... and a general suspicious on MF...That's just sick.
And now, hoppe I'm wrong, but it seems that Cooter was so fed-up of all this BS and left. Very nice! If people like Coot start to leave this forum, something's very wrong somewhere.
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Thanks Photography gear is and ALWAYS will be about what you need , what your comfortable with and what gets the job done to your enjoyment or to fulfill a client needs. It has no name tag. Somedays I wish like you can with a car take the names off the back end, I wish we could do that and just remove the name. Be nice if people could actually think like that , but than the world would be a better place so forget that idea. I have a lot of spirit for photography and pushing good data out to give back what I learned along the way but I'm not going to waste the little precious time i have arguing this shit with trolls. I dont feel sorry for anyone you dig your own grave here on the internet and i have been around a long time on them and you learn a few things but people forget them as in life. Respect, Integrity, Honesty and living up to the reputation of being a good person. Unfortunately people lose there way and put there ego in front of the good values. Until than catch you all later I'm with BC enough is enough.
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As I'm not involved anymore into the still imagery, and even when I was I used MF only during a very short time because we were shooting only Canons at the studio, wich doesn't give me any credit to actively
participate in a MF forum and should indeed stay gently in the motion forum of this site (and that's what I'll do from now) wich is were my world is.
However, as a reader, this MF forum has always be a great source of inspiration, good imagery that I enjoy to watch, relevant profesional knowledge, and even if I'm not involved into stills anymore, I could find lots of usefull posts worth the Reading for anybody interested in imagery and a general atmosphere of respect.
The wars between systems are not new at all. How many of those threads MR closed in the past when things were going too far and started to be meaningless, you remember? Graphics, bombings of pseudo-scientific stuff, attempts to demozided MF or trying to convince MF users to join the good side of the dslrs force have been on air forever.
However, the tones were very differents, sometimes even ridiculously funy. And all the wars of the past never provoqued such a heartily sick that many of the MF users are experiencing now, and readers like me too. It's because it's everywere now. Not just in special war threads like before but it smells from all pores in all the MF forum.
Now, each time someone posts something here, I'm waiting when will show-up something related with the f.....g bloody Nikon peice of s...t or some sort of dslr magicality to bomb the MF gear and demostrate how crap it is and how corrupted are the vendors etc etc... That's just sick.
And now, hoppe I'm wrong, but it seems that Cooter was so fed-up of all this BS and left. Very nice! If people like Coot start to leave this forum, something's very wrong somewhere.
You don't have to be a user of MF to enjoy reading and participating in a format that you have interest in. You need no excuses to be here. Have fun
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Thanks Photography gear is and ALWAYS will be about what you need , what your comfortable with and what gets the job done to your enjoyment or to fulfill a client needs. It has no name tag. Somedays I wish like you can with a car take the names off the back end, I wish we could do that and just remove the name. Be nice if people could actually think like that , but than the world would be a better place so forget that idea. I have a lot of spirit for photography and pushing good data out to give back what I learned along the way but I'm not going to waste the little precious time i have arguing this shit with trolls. I dont feel sorry for anyone you dig your own grave here on the internet and i have been around a long time on them and you learn a few things but people forget them as in life. Respect, Integrity, Honesty and living up to the reputation of being a good person. Unfortunately people lose there way and put there ego in front of the good values. Until than catch you all later I'm with BC enough is enough.
Couldn't agree more. Enough is enough.
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I'm in agreement with this thread, this has gone on too long and too far, to the point where it's just ruined the spirit of the forum. I'm starting to think Fred has some sort of OCD, because frankly it's not normal spending this much time on a MEDIUM FORMAT DIGITAL forum bashing that very same thing in pretty much every thread. I've lost count of how many times I've seen the very same tired arguments, same pictures, and same "tests", even in threads where the OP specifically said he's interested in knowing about MFD, not Canikon D800Ds.
There's a fine line between playing the devil's advocate and just plain trolling. The repetitive, relentless nature of Fred's posts and his complete lack of respect and understanding of other people's needs/opinions just comes off as mentally unstable to me.
Seriously Fred, give it a rest already. Go live that amazing life of yours that you keep telling us about instead, I'm sure your wife & kids would appreciate it.
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A discussion forum where everybody thinks the same and there is no criticism is not healthy. While I do like getdpi, I appreciate lula for allowing more diverse opinions.
As JV said too, diversity is good. This forum as a whole has an excellent mix of diversity, but when one or two personal agendas are constantly belabored in a negative way in a section of the forum devoted to MFD, well, that's not good and that's not constructive criticism. It does seem that the participation of some who had much to offer has waned - that's not good.
What would be beneficial is for those who don't appreciate what most of us see in our choices of MFD format is to at least respect that, like it or not, this section - this one section of the forum - is devoted to those who use, like and want to learn more from others who use, like and want to share about MFD.
Ed
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who use, like and want to learn more from others who use, like and want to share about MFD.
+1 Well said Ed!
Thank you Yaya.
Thanks Guy. I definitely have a bunch of MF questions for you. My wife is trying to drag me to Colo.NewMex.Ariz. but right now I'm happy with the "No Landscapes" just gold diggers scene of Miami.
any comment he makes is taken so negatively, but not all his comments are negative
When a topic poster is asking a specific question about MFD, why tell him/her about recomposing and depth of field fall off? And multiple focus points? If you have ever held a MFD and looked through the viewfinder you can see that. I learned how to zone focus or recompose and focus a speed graphic in my High School photography class. No biggie.
Why not start a new topic like "top ten reasons to buy a konica" on a another section of the forum. Then while sneaking a break during an assignments, if I wonder about say" If a Konica has more DR than my MFD" I can simply click on that topic. No need to interrupt the natural flow of topic. Just start your own "topic" on whatever floats your boat.
Recently some freaking fantastic "established" (with websites to back their words) architectural photogs were duking it out about using Natural light or strobes or European style vs Australian vs US approaches to light. Now that was pure fun and deep. I learned so much. Great reading. Even microwaved some popcorn to enjoy while reading. I could imagine Chris Barrett and Iwan Baan sitting in cafe arm wrestling. Wonderful insights from the global community of architectural photogs who gave their valuable time to share on the forum.
But then....a photog who frequently posts about his hollywood and celebrity photography started chirp in.....And for the life of me I couldn't see how his opinion was relevant or apropos... Yes visitors are free to post to this open forum. But like the saying goes...Just because you can, doesn't mean you should.
Regards,
Jeffery
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There's a fine line between playing the devil's advocate and just plain trolling. The repetitive, relentless nature of Fred's posts and his complete lack of respect and understanding of other people's needs/opinions just comes off as mentally unstable to me.
But you are thinking Fred's comments are worth replying to. True, it is really annoying that he can only see his point of view, but, really, it is not worth getting that bothered by. I am actually getting tired of every thread becoming about Fred. It is like MFD is all about the D800 and Fred.
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I am actually getting tired of every thread becoming about Fred. It is like MFD is all about the D800 and Fred.
Which in many ways actually what's intended
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And by going to this MFD forum I learn and appreciate what the noted architectural, fashion and landscape photos who actually shoot do with their gear....
Enda Cavanagh, BCooter, Libby, KD, Torger, Joe Kitchen, CB, theguywitha645d, Guy Mancuso,Gerald D, Keith Laban, Paul Ozzello and many more who actually do more than photograph their mailboxes....
Thanks for sharing!
Regards,
Jeffery
Thanks for the props Jeffery ;)
Some new images from a recent trip to NYC
(http://paulozzello.com/ExternalImages/Chelsea1Framed.jpg)
(http://paulozzello.com/ExternalImages/Chelsea2Framed.jpg)
Paul
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Thom Hogan has been running a "best Nikon" poll on his site perhaps a pertinent comment came in the last posting, where the D800 was disqualified BTW ,
"D800 owners perceive it as the top dog. Owners of something other than a D800 don't"
http://www.bythom.com/madness.htm
BTW perhaps a limit on re-posting the same image might help?
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Some new images from a recent trip to NYC
You are welcome Paul. I enjoy your work as well. And my question to you would be when you shoot MFD B&W, do you use a digital zone system? How often do you print your B&Ws? I ask because you have a very strong sense of monochrome and your images are very nice.
regards,
Jeffery
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I'm not trying to step on the moderators toes or deny anyone an open forum.
Actually, yes you are. You are trying to dictate the form and function of the subforum (this one) to your own desires...fact is, even if a new forum was created, it would still behave like this one unless: somebody banned certain members from posting (ain't gonna happen) or had the moderators (read Mike & Chris) heavily moderate the subforum (ain't gonna happen).
If you aren't happy with the way LuLa is run, ask for your money back–oh, wait, you didn't pay anything to come here...
Let's see, you've been a registered user here for about 6 months and have 42 posts? Sorry, I'm not sure you really have the seniority to be so critical. Read, don't read...post, don't post–that's all you can personally control here on LuLa. (unless you have certain friends North of the border)
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You are welcome Paul. I enjoy your work as well. And my question to you would be when you shoot MFD B&W, do you use a digital zone system? How often do you print your B&Ws? I ask because you have a very strong sense of monochrome and your images are very nice.
regards,
Jeffery
Hi Jeffery,
I'm glad you like my work and appreciate the positive feedback :) I'm a bit of a dinosaur and still shoot film (gulp)... I tried the zone system and loading several backs for different development times but I prefer keeping it simple and use an incident light meter (and bracket for tricky lighting). I have years of darkroom experience but currently scan my negs with an old Epson flatbed and print with a Canon Pro 9000 (the first version) in grayscale mode and the combination is surprisingly good for prints up to A3+ (and it's also quite affordable). I'm trying to change careers to work full time as a photographer making fine art prints and am preparing a series of 40" images of my work. The equipment needed for those large prints is above my means so I'm working with a custom printer in San Francisco (Eiger Studios - I plug Lenny Eiger whenever I can because his drum scans are outstanding, and he's a really nice guy). Unfortunately I haven't gone very far with the prints yet because I spend a lot of my time taking care of my dying father... Lenny uses a Roland printer with a custom inkset based on the ones from Piezography and the results are spectacular.
I'm not sure what you mean by the digital zone system ? When I shoot digital I usually ETTR...
Paul
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I didn't mind the "critical of MFD" posts at first, as there was lots of Kool Aid being consumed regarding MFD's SUPERIORITY. At the base of all of the criticism there is some truth. Then it got WAY out of hand. Way Way out of hand. Criticism beyond reason.
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I didn't mind the "critical of MFD" posts at first, as there was lots of Kool Aid being consumed regarding MFD's SUPERIORITY. At the base of all of the criticism there is some truth. Then it got WAY out of hand. Way Way out of hand. Criticism beyond reason.
I've come across this thing before here: what is Kool Aid and what's its property? I simply don't get the references...
Rob C
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I've come across this thing before here: what is Kool Aid and what's its property? I simply don't get the references...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drinking_the_Kool-Aid
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Debate is not the same as a diatribe.
Criticism is not the same as a witch hunt.
Information is not the same as misinformation.
I welcome debate, criticism, and information — regardless of format.
I despise diatribes, witch hunts, and misinformation — regardless of format.
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See? Again this hateful behavior - somebody is airing a perfectly understandable gripe about the forum members and Nikon and equipment nerds, some juicy character assassination is done with the required vim and vinegar, and then BANG - comes Paul and suddenly it's all about actual images and real world technique. Yuck, can't even have a decent trollfight in this forum without getting bit in the ass by working artists :)
Edmund
Thanks for the props Jeffery ;)
Some new images from a recent trip to NYC
(http://paulozzello.com/ExternalImages/Chelsea1Framed.jpg)
(http://paulozzello.com/ExternalImages/Chelsea2Framed.jpg)
Paul
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I'm working with a custom printer in San Francisco (Eiger Studios - I plug Lenny Eiger whenever I can because his drum scans are outstanding, and he's a really nice guy). Unfortunately I haven't gone very far with the prints yet because I spend a lot of my time taking care of my dying father... Lenny uses a Roland printer with a custom inkset based on the ones from Piezography and the results are spectacular.
Paul
Crazy, Lenny and I used to chat all the time back when I was in the market for a drum scanner. He was so helpful and informative. I was also doing Piezography at the time. The all carbon inkset makes damn beautiful prints. I ended up buying a refurbished Howtek 4500, nothing else I tried (including the Imacons) could do black and white negs right. That beast churned out some beautiful images. These two series were all scanned on it from 35mm Tri-X
Street Work (http://christopherbarrett.net/personal/street_work_01/)
More Street Work (http://christopherbarrett.net/personal/street_work_02/)
CB
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Actually, yes you are. You are trying to dictate the form and function of the subforum (this one) to your own desires
Thank you I appreciate your thoughts. Perhaps if you like you can PM me exactly what you mean by "form and function of the sub forum"
If you aren't happy with the way LuLa is run, ask for your money back–oh, wait, you didn't pay anything to come here...
Hmmm do you mean....Not in my backyard? Or love it or leave it? I apologize I didn't know it was required to have 4200 posts before you could post. How does one go from 42 to 4200 posts without posting?
Sorry, I'm not sure you really have the seniority to be so critical.
Really? It's critical to Lu-La to express the thought that it might be a good idea to have a topic or forum section or sub forum or space where to quote another poster "is devoted to those who use, like and want to learn more from others who use, like and want to share about MFD."
Luminous Landscape is a valuable resource to many photography lovers both pro and enthusiasts.
Regards,
Jeffery
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Jeffrey!
If you had just stuck with Diana cameras and film think of all the time you would have saved reading the responses of pixel peepers who's biggest issue is whether they should photograph the lens chart instead of the mailbox.
Joking aside - this forum has a pretty high signal to noise ratio but occasionally someone posts something invaluable. You just have to be willing to sift through the garbage. I just lurk these days as I no longer have skin in the game (sold my P45+ 2 years ago) but I've always found there to be some really helpful people on Lu-La. What keeps me coming back is seeing photographers like you pop up here from time to time. It means these forums are still relevant.
You're work is awesome as always. Hope you're well.
Bob
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Hi Paul,
I was curious about your digital/film/bw workflow. Thanks for sharing. I rarely shoot with the idea of a B/W print or output. I really appreciate a finely crafted B/W print. My question about digital zone system was perhaps not the right question. Some photographers inherently pick the right subjects, with textures, tone and contrast which will convert beautifully to B&W. I can clearly see that's what you do.
Thanks for sharing the information about your printer. In Miami we have a master printer named Randy Mitchell who has printed for Helmut Newton and many other high fashion photographers.
My best in regards to your father.
Jeffery
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Thanks Bob. Love your stuff. Now I know why I never get in gigs in Tampa anymore!
regards,
Jeffery
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Really? It's critical to Lu-La to express the thought that it might be a good idea to have a topic or forum section or sub forum or space where to quote another poster "is devoted to those who use, like and want to learn more from others who use, like and want to share about MFD."
Check the forum you are posting in...it's name is Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs – and Large Sensor Photography. The fact that YOU don't think it's large format enough says a lot more about you than the forum (think elitist?). What you are trying to do (with now your 45th post) is to try to control what is, Mike's house...you know, Michael Reichmann the guy that hosts this site? You don't sit down in Mike's living room and fart (by complaining about the organization of the forums) and not expect some people who have been here a while taking umbrage?
Look, all ya gotta do is be a bit selective...selective in the threads you start or post to. It's far easier to control your own actions than the actions of others. You want to start a thread about topics you are interested in? Do so... Bitching about the forums or the behavior of others here is less useful.
You don't like it here, start your own forum and play dictator there. Don't come here and try to dictate, it doesn't go over too well, ya know?
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Check the forum you are posting in...it's name is Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs – and Large Sensor Photography. The fact that YOU don't think it's large format enough says a lot more about you than the forum (think elitist?). What you are trying to do (with now your 45th post) is to try to control what is, Mike's house...you know, Michael Reichmann the guy that hosts this site? You don't sit down in Mike's living room and fart (by complaining about the organization of the forums) and not expect some people who have been here a while taking umbrage?
Look, all ya gotta do is be a bit selective...selective in the threads you start or post to. It's far easier to control your own actions than the actions of others. You want to start a thread about topics you are interested in? Do so... Bitching about the forums or the behavior of others here is less useful.
You don't like it here, start your own forum and play dictator there. Don't come here and try to dictate, it doesn't go over too well, ya know?
I believe you believe that.
Thank you for your thoughts.
regards,
Jeffery
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See? Again this hateful behavior - somebody is airing a perfectly understandable gripe about the forum members and Nikon and equipment nerds, some juicy character assassination is done with the required vim and vinegar, and then BANG - comes Paul and suddenly it's all about actual images and real world technique. Yuck, can't even have a decent trollfight in this forum without getting bit in the ass by working artists :)
Edmund
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRom-BYrAGI
LOL Edmund, LOL ;)
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Goodnight Gracie.
Michael