Luminous Landscape Forum
Raw & Post Processing, Printing => Adobe Lightroom Q&A => Topic started by: Rhossydd on March 30, 2013, 08:34:27 am
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Lots of people seem to like Nik plug-ins, so as the price has just dropped I thought I'd try them out, but I have been totally under whelmed.
I've used Snapseed on Android and like the U point style of applying image corrections, but it seems that's only possible with a rendered image out of LR.
Once I've had to render the image and go into Photoshop the advantage of U points seems less compelling as I've the full range of normal editing options available anyway. So that seems to negate most advantages of Viveza and ColorFlex.
SilverEfex doesn't really seem to have many advantages over the B&W options in LR, but again it needs the image rendering, so there seems no reason to use that. Define and ProSharpener don't seem to offer much more than LR's existing options either.
HDRflex Pro is the only plug-in that works directly in LR and offers anything new.
I'm not interested in the eye searing surreal HDR nonsense, but do use the Enfuse plug-in to blend multiple exposures to increase DR in a natural looking way.
What I've found is that the Nik plug-in seems very variable in the quality of it's output. A few sets have blended beautifully and it's ghost removal options can be a real help. However quite often there are curious artefacts left that spoil the image. Despite a lot of experimentation it also seems to always have a 'crunchy' look to the blends that's impossible to loose. A bit like too much clarity and contrast in LR. The HDR method settings just seem too coarse to get a really smooth look to the output.
A bizarre omission is that the plug-in isn't even capable of generating a true 32bit image you can save.
Overall I can't see any compelling reason to buy the package to use in LR. LR4's existing capabilities seem to cover almost everything and keep it all within a standard convenient workflow.
Have I missed something fundamental here ? or is this just a package that's past it's usefulness now ?
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I was thinking of doing the same and only use LR for processing, I thought the plug in would work effectively ?
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... or is this just a package that's past it's usefulness now ?
That would explain the fire sale pricing and giving it away.
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Lots of people seem to like Nik plug-ins, so as the price has just dropped I thought I'd try them out, but I have been totally under whelmed.
I wouldn't describe myself as overwhelmed, just slightly whelmed ( ;D ;D ).
At the previous price the Nik stuff was just way, way outside consideration for me, but at $149 it was on the margins, and I've bought it.
The reason I bought it: I want to experiment more with colour effects of various sorts, and I thought having spent money on Color Efex Pro would motivate me to do it!
On a quick couple of tests, Dfine is no better than LR's noise reduction, HDR Efex Pro is slightly easier (for me) to get useful results than CS5, Viveza might be useful as I quite like the control points (having used them in Nikon Capture NX2), and find they can sometimes be a quicker alternative to LR's local adjustment brush. I've not tried Sharpener or Silver Efex.
Not a must-have for me, marginal at $149, but I think I'll be trying Color Efex on quite a few images where I want a bit of drama and impact.
If I could rewrite history, I'd have had Adobe buy Nik (rather than Google buying them) and build the Nik plugins into LR, so all the functions could be implemented within LR in the usual non-destructive way.
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I pretty much agree. Except for HDR, the rest I can do as well or better and certainly faster in Lightroom. I had thought of buying Silver Efex a year ago or so, but I didn't really see anything I could do with it that can't be done in LR, especially at its previous price. Well, ok, frames. I have DxO film Pack if I need a faux film effect. $150 for something with a very uncertain future and not much benefit to me? I am less than whelmed too, but I'll play with the trial and see if there is something that I am missing.
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If I could rewrite history, I'd have had Adobe buy Nik (rather than Google buying them) and build the Nik plugins into LR,
Agreed. I wonder how far reaching Nik/Google's patents are on the U point idea ?
Similar functionality could be achieved in LR by just adding the HSL panel's options to the adjustment brush's options (as has been asked for).
Watching some of the tutorials I get the impression that the U point idea is fine until you need to get really refined edits, then it becomes so complicated with multiple points you might as well have just used the existing tools in PS anyway.
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I pretty much agree. Except for HDR, the rest I can do as well or better and certainly faster in Lightroom. I had thought of buying Silver Efex a year ago or so, but I didn't really see anything I could do with it that can't be done in LR, especially at its previous price. Well, ok, frames. I have DxO film Pack if I need a faux film effect. $150 for something with a very uncertain future and not much benefit to me? I am less than whelmed too, but I'll play with the trial and see if there is something that I am missing.
Oh boy, this is starting to sound familiar.
I too jumped in and bought the package (albeit with the discount), and was keenly anxious to create wonders on my images (perhaps they're no D good in the first place).
So far (admittedly I'm much more familiar with LR), I'm struggling with NIK, and hopefully there will be some breakthroughs.
What I'm really puzzled by is why Google purchased NIK in the first place. Was it a misguided blunder by Google? Is Google actually going to be able to use NIK? Will they be interested/able to take NIK to the next step?
Surely the purchase of NIK by Google was not a philanthropic move. Does anyone have some better insights into the whole affair?
Glenn
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I jumped on the deal as well. The only thing I was really interested in was Silver Efex however. I played with Viveza a little bit and it's okay, but I do like Silver Efex better minus the need to render the image beforehand. I open it as a smart object to preserve some ability for future changes. I think basically the same effect could be achieved in Lr, but I do think the Upoint selection process is a little faster.
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The news about this included a note that if you had bought NIK software products within the last 5 years then one would be eligible to get a new license. I can't find anywhere how to get such a license. I bought the NIK bundle for Lightroom about 2 years ago.
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... I can't find anywhere how to get such a license...
I got an email from them.
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The news about this included a note that if you had bought NIK software products within the last 5 years then one would be eligible to get a new license. I can't find anywhere how to get such a license. I bought the NIK bundle for Lightroom about 2 years ago.
Send an email to customer service. They'll reply within a day. You'll need some of your version and key numbers, but you should be "recognizable" through your email.
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This was the first I did via the customer contact form but have received no reply.
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In your spam folder? That's where mine was on my Mac.
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No, I always check my spam folder. One thing I dislike about gmail is that I cannot turn the spam filter off. I sent a new e-mail via their contact form as I don't have a direct e-mail address for their customer service.
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I had Viveza before I bought LR and very much prefer it to using the Adjustment brush in LR. The point is you can use it on a layer and it is more flexible than LR. I suspect Adobe tried to copy some of Viveza's functionality but weren't too successful. It is imo the one that worth buying. :)
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The point is you can use it on a layer
Which means you have to come out of LR
it is more flexible than LR
It's different certainly, but I don't think it offers anything more in flexibility.
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For years everyone was happily using PS and editing Tiffs to their heart's content and then came along ACR/ LR which is a good thing. They brought many benefits which I use and understand. Now it seems to some that they cannot bear to leave ACR/LR and do some work in PS anymore. There are many things that PS can do that ACR/LR can't do and layers is one that is still useful. The usual retort is you are working on a rendered version of the raw in PS. Some don't understand you are doing that in ACR/LR. Again the retort is it is non destructive in ACR/LR. If you use smart objects in PS it is non destructive. To sum up there seems to be an elitist attitude attached to ACR/LR with regards to them and PS and before anyone states it I reiterate that I know the benefits of ACR/LR. Rant over. I am now going to enjoy the rest of Easter Sunday, despite being an atheist. :)
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For years everyone was happily using PS and editing Tiffs to their heart's content and then came along ACR/ LR which is a good thing. They brought many benefits which I use and understand. Now it seems to some that they cannot bear to leave ACR/LR and do some work in PS anymore. There are many things that PS can do that ACR/LR can't do and layers is one that is still useful. The usual retort is you are working on a rendered version of the raw in PS. Some don't understand you are doing that in ACR/LR. Again the retort is it is non destructive in ACR/LR. If you use smart objects in PS it is non destructive. To sum up there seems to be an elitist attitude attached to ACR/LR with regards to them and PS and before anyone states it I reiterate that I know the benefits of ACR/LR. Rant over. I am now going to enjoy the rest of Easter Sunday, despite being an atheist. :)
I agree. I use LR extensively but don't hesitate to edit in PS. In fact I almost always go to PS for images that call for the LR adjustment brush since it isn't a great tool, IMO.
But this thread is about Nik plugins. I downloaded the suite and I'm very happy with them. Once you understand their strengths and weaknesses and learn how to use them they can work well. But they aren't necessarily a replacement for standard LR features, particularly for B&W conversions. Also ones personal style of photography will probably dictate what plugin (if any) you may use.
I purchased Enfuse for LR and wasn't over whelmed with the capability for blending images, I've found Nik HDR Efex Pro 2 and Photomatix 4 to be more effective in my hands. Most of the time I really don't want to keep the 32 bit HDR image file since it's easy to recreate and not often reused later.
Don Bryant
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I originally posted this in the "Digital Image Processing" section, but thought I'd drop it here as well, so please forgive me if you've already read this elsewhere. If any or all of you kind folks think I am indeed being paranoid, please don't be shy, I can take it. I'm simply looking for opinions and perhaps some good reasons not to be concerned about what may be lurking in the dark.
"This may sound like a bit of paranoia on my part, but I am somewhat skeptical of the intent and/or possible ramifications of this offer from Google. I usually read all of the terms of use etc included with the installation of any software package. I have indeed downloaded the "free" NIK/Google collection, having been a registered user for many years. However, after reading the "Terms of Service" I have some minor reservations about the install. Google refers to this software as a "Service" and there are several items in the "Terms" that I find questionable and perhaps troublesome. Therefore, I'm going to refrain from installing until I've had more time to completely digest the information in the "Terms of Service". One of the sentences related to downloadable software is as follows - "You may not copy, modify, distribute, sell, or lease any part of our Services or included software, nor may you reverse engineer or attempt to extract the source code of that software, unless laws prohibit those restrictions or you have our written permission". I have no issue with most of that statement, except for the reference to "copying". Generally the first thing I do after downloading any software is to make several backups of the installation package. In this case, three backups on three separate drives, plus a DVD. I take NO chances on losing downloaded software. My concern is how Google would know if I have copied the install package of the NIK/Google Collection. In my opinion that information can only be made available to Google through a thorough scan of my computer, and that is a very disturbing possibility to consider. And of course there's also the fact that at any time Google can make the "Service"(software) unusable on any computer, according to the "Terms". I may be way out in left field on this, but I'll exercise caution at this point and keep an eye on this thread until I'm satisfied that no one else harbors such concerns.
Gary
P.S. One of my favourite quips - "Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean someone isn't out to get me"
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I may be way out in left field on this,
IMO, you are.
Don Bryant
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IMO, you are.
Don Bryant
This from my previous post:
What I'm really puzzled by is why Google purchased NIK in the first place. Was it a misguided blunder by Google? Is Google actually going to be able to use NIK? Will they be interested/able to take NIK to the next step?
Surely the purchase of NIK by Google was not a philanthropic move. Does anyone have some better insights into the whole affair?
I'm still trying to figure out their (Google's) motive - any suggestions?
Glenn
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This from my previous post:
What I'm really puzzled by is why Google purchased NIK in the first place. Was it a misguided blunder by Google? Is Google actually going to be able to use NIK? Will they be interested/able to take NIK to the next step?
Surely the purchase of NIK by Google was not a philanthropic move. Does anyone have some better insights into the whole affair?
I'm still trying to figure out their (Google's) motive - any suggestions?
Glenn
Because they are competeing against Apple and Microsoft. As you know they now produce hardware (or sell hardware made for them) and they need to bouy these hardware products with cloud based software which includes image editing tools. Viola! That's why they purchased Nik. Why try to make a good tool when one can be purchased. I think their purchase makes great sense and Nik will be the better for it.
Come on folks, quit being so cynical!
Don Bryant
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I used PS for ~8 years.
Once I started using LR I found I was using PS less and less. As LR as evolved I find I can do 90% of what I want with it.
I'm probably not as sophisticated as some here. ;)
I've found the Nik plug-ins to be a reasonable addition to LR with the $149 price and an additional 15% discount.
I'm happy with the control points in Viveza and find I'm using Silver FX for most of my BW.
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What I'm really puzzled by is why Google purchased NIK in the first place. Was it a misguided blunder by Google? Is Google actually going to be able to use NIK? Will they be interested/able to take NIK to the next step?
They bought it for Snapseed, not for the Nik Collection, I'm sure.
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Hello,
and this is also my personal opinion :
They bought the whole package for one little detail and now they are trying to get as much mmoney as possible from the parts of the cake they aren't really interested in.
I cannot imagine that there will be huge improvements in future. You you take the suite as it is, if it fits your needs, useit, and if not, don't expect for changes.
But, this is just my personal opinion.
Robert
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Hello,
and this is also my personal opinion :
They bought the whole package for one little detail and now they are trying to get as much mmoney as possible from the parts of the cake they aren't really interested in.
I cannot imagine that there will be huge improvements in future. You you take the suite as it is, if it fits your needs, useit, and if not, don't expect for changes.
Robert
You will be right if Google sits on these products and only pushes Snapseed. Nik needs to aggressively improve their products to keep up with OnOne. There hasn't been little new from Nik in the past couple years. Besides, once LR puts in layers and few other tweaks, these other products will be under even more pressure.
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You will be right if Google sits on these products and only pushes Snapseed. Nik needs to aggressively improve their products to keep up with OnOne. There hasn't been little new from Nik in the past couple years. Besides, once LR puts in layers and few other tweaks, these other products will be under even more pressure.
Looks like one side effect of the new Nik plugin suite offer is that OnOne has decided to match prices for their plugin suite.
http://www.ononesoftware.com/landing/nik/
You can watch Matt Kloskowski's plug for the suite. :)
http://player.vimeo.com/video/58646359
Don Bryant
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No, I always check my spam folder. One thing I dislike about gmail is that I cannot turn the spam filter off. I sent a new e-mail via their contact form as I don't have a direct e-mail address for their customer service.
This time it worked and I got a download of the suites for the Mac. No licenses codes, which was weird.
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This time it worked and I got a download of the suites for the Mac. No licenses codes, which was weird.
I think there would be possibly two reasons for no licenses/codes. First the possibility that Google has preregistered each suite to the email address, and secondly, they have no intention of producing any upgrades, so it doesn't matter. Either way you do get the suite free as a registered user, so why not just use it while you can? Most, if not all plugins are simply a condensed version of what can be done in LR or PS, so if upgrades were no longer available we'd all have to spend some more time learning how to make our own "plugins", correct? Perhaps not a bad idea overall.
Gary
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Besides, once LR puts in layers and few other tweaks, these other products will be under even more pressure.
hmmmm... and how exactly layers in PS that I use and where layers were for ages are supposed to hurt Nik ColorEfex plugin for me ?
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Besides, once LR puts in layers and few other tweaks, these other products will be under even more pressure.
I didn't know that layers were planned for LR.
Glenn
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so if upgrades were no longer available we'd all have to spend some more time learning how to make our own "plugins", correct?
Gary
Does that mean that those plug-ins somehow wear out and have to be upgraded or they will stop working?
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Does that mean that those plug-ins somehow wear out and have to be upgraded or they will stop working?
I don't think so! What NIK support reported to me was that there would be a notice when you open a plugin about updates just like so many other apps today. The license is connected to your e-mail from what they told me.
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I think there would be possibly two reasons for no licenses/codes. First the possibility that Google has preregistered each suite to the email address, and secondly, they have no intention of producing any upgrades, so it doesn't matter. Either way you do get the suite free as a registered user, so why not just use it while you can? Most, if not all plugins are simply a condensed version of what can be done in LR or PS, so if upgrades were no longer available we'd all have to spend some more time learning how to make our own "plugins", correct? Perhaps not a bad idea overall.
No issue really and the license is connected to my e-mail adress and will be notified of updates. So that's ok. I didn not even upgrade to from my initial Lightroom bundle since I felt I could essentially do it all in Lightroom or with other Lightroom plugins. But when I could get the upgrade for free I wanted to have it, of course. In general I think Lightroom is taking a huge bite out of various smaller software packages...
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Looks like one side effect of the new Nik plugin suite offer is that OnOne has decided to match prices for their plugin suite.
Any discount codes?
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Discount Code
northlight
from Canon Rumors
http://www.canonrumors.com/2013/03/nik-collection-bundle-for-126-65/
Says 4/2 only but worked for me today
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Discount Code
northlight
from Canon Rumors
http://www.canonrumors.com/2013/03/nik-collection-bundle-for-126-65/
Says 4/2 only but worked for me today
I meant for the OnOne software, but thanks for the thought!
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I meant for the OnOne software, but thanks for the thought!
STUCKINCUSTOMS - 10%
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STUCKINCUSTOMS - 10%
Worked like a charm. Thanks!
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I've been playing around with Silver Efex for a few days now, and I must say I'm impressed with it. The control points method of selection works really well in most cases, speeding up the work flow. I also tried out Dfine on some shadow noise this evening using the Ps version of the plug-in. Just a first impression but it seems to get the job done really well also.
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I don't know why Nik didn't merge Vivezia with ColorFX? Maybe it was marketing to push more products, and tie you into the platform, then sell the other apps?
Vivezia is a nice addition to their apps, but it surely could have been merged into ColorFX and making it much more powerful by giving ColroFX Upoint capability. After all the originality is in using the Upoints to a specific controled region of the image. Otherwise it is less conveniet but can be done in Photoshop. In fact they also needed to centralize the interface toools. Some had the same tools but setup in a different way. This was a problem. I liked using Nik earlier on in my photography. Obviously for shoots involving the right subject matter.
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I don't know why Nik didn't merge Vivezia with ColorFX? Maybe it was marketing to push more products, and tie you into the platform, then sell the other apps?
Vivezia is a nice addition to their apps, but it surely could have been merged into ColorFX and making it much more powerful by giving ColroFX Upoint capability. After all the originality is in using the Upoints to a specific controled region of the image. Otherwise it is less conveniet but can be done in Photoshop. In fact they also needed to centralize the interface toools. Some had the same tools but setup in a different way. This was a problem. I liked using Nik earlier on in my photography. Obviously for shoots involving the right subject matter.
At the time of the purchase, it was reported that Google really wanted Snapseed very badly, and wasn't interested in the rest. Of course, that was on the rumor sites, so it could be BS.
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That makes sense for Google, but for Nik not to merge the two apps from before was a breakup in how the apps are used separately....this creates instability in user expereince and with competition breaks up your user base.
I liked Nik, and did like SilverFx for sometime, and now hardly use them in my work. I have had OnOne also, and they recently updated me with the latest as the 6 or before was powerful in idea, but horrible in execution(multi effect layers).
I also have Topaz. For some work I find Topaz to be helpful, otherwise, they all are additional tools. If you can use them to aid processing time, that is great.
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I now remember what I didn't like about Nik....
You can do color adjustments in Viveza or Color FX, but not side burn edges or frames like in SilverFX, and you can't bring the file into SilverFX without it getting a treatment, so you can't add any of the effects you get to the file with Silver FX without it going BW or other effect.
I fully understand that they can sell more plugins by having more, but this is such a hack job...They should grow up and be a real plugin and merge the 3 (Color, Viveza, SilverFX) into 1, and charge a bit more. Or at least have a Main plugin app, as Silver has the most features, make that the main(I guess, or rewrite from zero), and then have the other plugins snap into the main, so we CAN ad a simple frame or edge burn on the images...or add paper color, or lens filter...
Even when you own all three of these, you CAN"T use them to their full extent...This is a major fail...it keeps the overall ending experience more of a hack and doodad plug in rather than finish off as a tool.
Come on Nik, how many years have you guys been around...I had color FX back when it was Extensis...Get it together!
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Similar functionality could be achieved in LR by just adding the HSL panel's options to the adjustment brush's options (as has been asked for).
Close, but not quite, even if the request had been granted - as I guess it still could be in the final version of LR5. The U-points select by color or tone within a variable space. You can get the same result using the adjustment brush with auto mask in Lightroom but it takes longer - or at least, it takes me longer. You can also invert the selection with U-points - something I was hoping for in Lightroom 5, but which I can find only in the new circular gradient tool.
Watching some of the tutorials I get the impression that the U point idea is fine until you need to get really refined edits, then it becomes so complicated with multiple points you might as well have just used the existing tools in PS anyway.
Multiple points can be added very quickly and points can be duplicated, overlapped and inverted. Once you get the hang of it I find this speeds up a lot of edits. For the ultimate in refinement Photoshop is still top of the heap, but I wouldn't be too dismissive about U-points merely on the basis of the tutorials.
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Multiple points can be added very quickly and points can be duplicated, overlapped and inverted. Once you get the hang of it I find this speeds up a lot of edits. ... but I wouldn't be too dismissive about U-points merely on the basis of the tutorials.
U-points are very powerful and convenient to use.
I'm predicting that Google will purchase Adobe and Evernote! :)
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I'm predicting that Google will purchase Adobe and Evernote! :)
Not sure about Evernote, Google already offer 'Keep' which is a very similar product.
Google buying Adobe ? I would have laughed at that two years ago, but today I could see that happening now. Nothing to do with buy imaging division, but when you see what Adobe are doing with their Marketing Cloud products you can see why Google might want those. It's easy to understand why Jeff Schewe keeps pointing out that imaging isn't very important to Adobe any more when you appreciate the scope of AMC.