Luminous Landscape Forum
The Art of Photography => The Coffee Corner => Topic started by: Rob C on March 15, 2013, 11:46:37 am
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I find that over recent years I've made returns to this site (linked below) at times when the batteries feel a little worn, that there's a fear that the charge might perhaps have gone for ever. Then, listening to several voices in a row, the truth of the matter comes through loudly and clearly again, confirmation of what's been known to me for all of my life.
Should you have the interest, it can make you understand why you do what you do and, perhaps as importantly, whether you should be doing it in the first place.
http://www.pixchannel.com
Rob C
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Great grab, Rob. Good for Elliott: "It's not about thinking. It's about discovering." Exactly! Thanks.
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... the truth of the matter comes through loudly and clearly again, confirmation of what's been known to me for all of my life....
Sorry to ask again, but what is that "truth of the matter"? Or, at least, what is it for you?
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Great insight Rob! Thanks for the link. It really is all about the discovery, the adventure of life.
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Dear old Ruth, She does it for me every time.
"You're ALWAYS a photographer ...... even if you don't have a camera with you."
Thanks fopr thew link Rob!!
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Sorry to ask again, but what is that "truth of the matter"? Or, at least, what is it for you?
Two truths: first, I received an e-mail from my accountant chap this evening and realised I had to do something pretty damned quickly and, consequently, it’s a quarter to eleven at night, my brain is scrambled and I just realised I’d become so engrossed with sums that I’d forgotten to switch on the blanket to heat the goddam bed; the other truth?
Well, the other truth is borne out in the collective sentiment expressed in the interviews: you do it because you have no option, you just have to do it regardless of the chances, the penalties and financial risk to everything in your life and almost that of the others you love more than yourself.
Retirement? Yes, you do and probably have to retire from active service in a business sense, if only because you start to look out of context within an ever younger working group unless you have become an icon at the Avedon level, in which case it matters not a jot: age then looks like added gold, the sum of the glories heaped upon the star. (Like rich old guys with yachts and Italian sports car, there’s some magic at play, regardless of the cynicism of those without the goodies.) But that’s just the photographic business: the love continues, and with the change of status arrive fresh problems. Money makes a lot of photography possible; do you want to blow back what the work already brought you?
You certainly could, but then you’d still lose the validation: it’s the assignment that hits the spot just as much as being there in the Bahamas or wherever the thing takes you. There’s the joy of landing the big fish and then the absolute magic of shooting the shoot and seeing what you did printed big and hanging on an office wall. That somebody thought enough of you to spend all that money with you is really a buzz all of its own: the only sort of positive “+1” that really counts.
As I’ve quoted before, the difference between pro and am status is huge: like Terence Donovan said, the most difficult thing for the amateur is finding a reason to make a picture. I’m now that amateur and from that perspective, I can only agree: it’s the greatest photographic problem I face. Unlike the amateur, there isn’t this drive, the hope of improving, doing something good. Regardless of how this sounds, I don’t believe ex-pros suffer from any of that: ability is taken for granted, especially the ability to do the things one wants to do, which if your pro work was also what you wanted, it’s probably still what you want to do, but without clients…
If you have the patience to read interviews, there are some great ones in Frank Horvat’s site:
http://www.horvatland.com
I just tried to check the Horvat site: I got a danger warning of infection: maybe now's not the best time to try it!
Ciao – and good night!
;-)
Rob C
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Great grab, Rob. Good for Elliott: "It's not about thinking. It's about discovering." Exactly! Thanks.
And lunch. Had myself a chuckle there.
Thanks for sharing Rob.
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"why you do what you do [so far as your interest in photography is concerned]"
Because, at least fleetingly, photography allows me an escape from the ordinary concerns of life which, in the main, I find mundane, banal and more or less meaningless.
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"why you do what you do [so far as your interest in photography is concerned]"
Because, at least fleetingly, photography allows me an escape from the ordinary concerns of life which, in the main, I find mundane, banal and more or less meaningless.
I understand perfectly. Except that now I do it as 'amateur' most of the so-called buzz has gone, and I'm experiencing the dull every day.
This could be explained away as age, lack of interesting exercise, poor health, but I really think that the fact of the matter is that it's just as you described. I believe there always has to be something more than just the self if one seeks balance; otherwise, you only find it by spinning very quickly like a top and you know what happens when the momentum dies. That's why many people live through parties, discos and all of that stuff (even the Internet, perhaps) and don't dare face slowing down. I know a couple of ex-alcoholics: they struggle every day with avoiding the fix to forgetting it all. It's seldom an easy ride, not even for the rich who have so many other problems to face.
Several famous photographers have rung the curtain down when photography was no longer enough to sustain them. I guess it's the sense of having been cheated, mostly by themselves to have thought they'd stumbled upon the Fountain of Life. I think you need love to hack it, not obsession.
Sombre times, if you let yourself think.
;-)
Rob C
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.. you do it because you have no option, you just have to do it regardless of the chances, the penalties and financial risk to everything in your life and almost that of the others you love more than yourself.
That sounds just awful, Rob. Who would want to be like that! That's pure slavery, or complete addiction.
Freedom is having the choice to do something because it give one pleasure, is entertaining or interesting or meaningful in some way.
One may find many examples of artist-types who are unable to sell their work and who choose to live in poverty rather than get a boring job which would pay the bills and raise their material standard of living, but which would also prevent them from continuing with their unpaid work, whether artistic or not, which they presumably find much more satisfying and meaningful than alternative employment.
If such people continue in their plight of poverty, one would hope it's because they choose to do so, not because they have no option. Time is a valuable resource. One may choose to make money, or one may choose to do something more meaninglful. Of course, to make money whilst simultaneously doing what is most meaningful and interesting is an ideal situation that most people fail to reach.
like Terence Donovan said, the most difficult thing for the amateur is finding a reason to make a picture. I’m now that amateur and from that perspective, I can only agree: it’s the greatest photographic problem I face. Unlike the amateur, there isn’t this drive, the hope of improving, doing something good. Regardless of how this sounds, I don’t believe ex-pros suffer from any of that: ability is taken for granted, especially the ability to do the things one wants to do, which if your pro work was also what you wanted, it’s probably still what you want to do, but without clients…
You've seem to have contradicted yourself in the above statement, Rob. You begin by agreeing that the most difficult thing for the amateur is finding a reason to make a picture, then you describe your own situation in retirement as not having the drive of the amateur, the hope of improving, of doing something good.
The meaning I'm getting from this is that the prime motivation of the professional photographer is to produce a picture which pleases the client to the extent that the client pays for the job. Remove that motivation and the professional photographer, like yourself, struggles to find an alternative motivation to continue taking pictures.
I think a distinction has to be made between the amateur who has always taken pictures to record events, subjects and situations simply because they are personally interesting and meaningful, and the professional who finds himself in the position of the amateur, after retirement, without that strong motivation to take photos to earn a living.
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To paraphrase:
you need love not obsession.
;-) Rob C
A "pro" in any field is primarily a social definition made by others and not an individual one made by you alone for your purposes alone.
If so then, perhaps, your task now is to think long and hard about what is truly deserving of love.
Perhaps you need to redefine your relationship to photography in an entirely new and novel way, at least for you, or failing that, move on to something else.
It's one of those painful bumps in life we have to get through now and again but not fatal.
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The meaning I'm getting from this is that the prime motivation of the professional photographer is to produce a picture which pleases the client to the extent that the client pays for the job. Remove that motivation and the professional photographer, like yourself, struggles to find an alternative motivation to continue taking pictures.
I think a distinction has to be made between the amateur who has always taken pictures to record events, subjects and situations simply because they are personally interesting and meaningful, and the professional who finds himself in the position of the amateur, after retirement, without that strong motivation to take photos to earn a living.
I am still the working photographer, and hopefully will be until I reach my 70's (because I'll need the money). But because I genuinely love the work I do, photographing people, I feel sure I could fill my days photographing even if no money were needed or offered. That is because my clients are mostly families, and there are no shortage of them who cherish good photographs of their loved ones. I can see the difference though if your clients are purely commercial - as I believe Rob's may have been. I have had my pictures occasionally used in national press, and do have quite a lot of work used in brochures and the like, but these have a much shorter shelf life usually and soon after appearing they quickly drift into obscurity. Unless of course you have one of those iconic images.
Jim
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Ray,
“That sounds just awful, Rob. Who would want to be like that! That's pure slavery, or complete addiction.”
I could not agree more; and that’s where I found myself in my teens. That’s the place I imagine pretty much all professional painters (art), writers and similar professional types find themselves: it isn’t driven by rational thought or fear but out of mindset. The simply is no choice other than in theory. That’s why I claim there is no viable or acceptable option. It’s the choice of doing something other than the art that’s the self-inflicted slavery.
“I think a distinction has to be made between the amateur who has always taken pictures to record events, subjects and situations simply because they are personally interesting and meaningful, and the professional who finds himself in the position of the amateur, after retirement, without that strong motivation to take photos to earn a living.”
No distinction needs be drawn: the distinction is so self-evident that it removes that category of snapper from the discussion. That category is not an amateur photographer at all; he’s a snapshot merchant and removed from the level of commitment at which the people in the original link were operating, and to which the logic of the thinking applied.
“The meaning I'm getting from this is that the prime motivation of the professional photographer is to produce a picture which pleases the client to the extent that the client pays for the job. Remove that motivation and the professional photographer, like yourself, struggles to find an alternative motivation to continue taking pictures.”
You understood my point. It’s very easy to make photographs, and when you know perfectly well that you can make any photograph that you wish to make, then you have no doubts about your capability. With that doubt removed, had it ever existed, there has to be something more to drive you to do it. Were it otherwise, you’d be like a car speeding down an empty motorway with an unconscious driver at the wheel; like a heavyweight boxer unable to stop fighting his own shadow all day long. There has to be something more. Art/skill needs motive beyond expression of ability: it requires purpose. And it’s the lack of realistic purpose that creates the difficulty to which Donovan referred, and which I now unfortunately share.
Photography, of itself, is not enough; it cannot and will not sustain your spiritual life.
Rob C
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“I think a distinction has to be made between the amateur who has always taken pictures to record events, subjects and situations simply because they are personally interesting and meaningful, and the professional who finds himself in the position of the amateur, after retirement, without that strong motivation to take photos to earn a living.”
No distinction needs be drawn: the distinction is so self-evident that it removes that category of snapper from the discussion. That category is not an amateur photographer at all; he’s a snapshot merchant and removed from the level of commitment at which the people in the original link were operating, and to which the logic of the thinking applied.
I must admit you've got me confused here, Rob. Why have you presumed that someone who records events, subjects and situations is a mere 'snapper'? Doesn't a professional wedding photographer record events? Doesn't a news photographer or a sports photographer record events? Doesn't an advertising or glamour photographer, who may arrange a scene in a creative way, record a 'situation'?
The distinction I'm making is between people who engage in those activities at least partly for monetary gain and/or fame, and those who are sufficiently motivated to do them solely for the meaning and the pleasure and the interest they derive from the activities.
You understood my point. It’s very easy to make photographs, and when you know perfectly well that you can make any photograph that you wish to make, then you have no doubts about your capability.
It's not necessarily very easy to make photographs that are to one's complete satisfaction, Rob. That's the challenge, surely.
Photography, of itself, is not enough; it cannot and will not sustain your spiritual life.
Photography doesn't have to exist in a vacuum, Rob. As mentioned before somewhere, being motivated to take photographs can, or should, result on one looking and observing more carefully than one otherwise might. There's a whole lot of assocated activities involved in photography that can have a spiritual dimension.
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You understood my point. It’s very easy to make photographs, and when you know perfectly well that you can make any photograph that you wish to make, then you have no doubts about your capability. With that doubt removed, had it ever existed, there has to be something more to drive you to do it. Were it otherwise, you’d be like a car speeding down an empty motorway with an unconscious driver at the wheel; like a heavyweight boxer unable to stop fighting his own shadow all day long. There has to be something more. Art/skill needs motive beyond expression of ability: it requires purpose. And it’s the lack of realistic purpose that creates the difficulty to which Donovan referred, and which I now unfortunately share.
Photography, of itself, is not enough; it cannot and will not sustain your spiritual life.
Rob C
Rob, I enjoy photography both as a professional and as an amateur, and I don't think I feel the same as you on this point. While I consider myself competent, I never tire of trying to improve my photography (some might say I have plenty of scope). It was only when first starting out as a keen amateur 30 years ago that I would struggle to think of what to photograph. Now, even if I never had to make another penny from photography, I would never run out of motivation, inspiration or ideas. I am more excited now by photography than I have ever been. It has to come from the heart though, and I can quite understand how some loose motivation.
Jim
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Rob, I enjoy photography both as a professional and as an amateur, and I don't think I feel the same as you on this point. While I consider myself competent, I never tire of trying to improve my photography (some might say I have plenty of scope). It was only when first starting out as a keen amateur 30 years ago that I would struggle to think of what to photograph. Now, even if I never had to make another penny from photography, I would never run out of motivation, inspiration or ideas. I am more excited now by photography than I have ever been. It has to come from the heart though, and I can quite understand how some loose motivation.
Jim
Indeed, and loss of motivation isn’t as simple as my post might make it appear. In fact, motivation doesn’t come alone: it comes accompanied – or not – by possibility, at least when sanity is an official referee.
That’s my personal slough of despond: the prime mover/motivator for me is sharing the creative experience with a wonderfully talented model. What that can do for the psyche is without compare. But there lies the rub: when such a person, a vital part (the most vital part?) of the equation can’t be bought, what’s left? What’s left is frustration, aimless wanderings around the place carrying a cellphone camera. And, if there is anything worse, it’s finding oneself in the desperate position of working with a model who hasn’t the slightest idea of what her rôle is supposed to be. I know: I have been forced there sometimes.
In attempts to shatter that grim status quo and take turnings off in other directions, I have bought this lens and the other, and yesterday I collected yet a further such item from the post office. It boils down to trying to buy oneself out of stagnation. And who knows: it might just work!
That’s why I discount the ability to make images as being the solution, and the attempt at reaching that position of abilty as being the possible/probable motivation that drives some others along their path. But, once there…? Once there the problems begin. It’s much like owning that beautiful car and finding yourself with nowhere that you honestly want to go.
Saw an item on the news at breakfast about the psychological problems associated with lack of sunlight… winter has a lot for which to answer.
;-)
Rob C
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Rob, may I humbly suggest that you go and chat up some attractive woman, doesn't have to be a supermodel, and say you would love to make some beautiful pictures of her. Show some of your portfolio, (perhaps not the naked/topless ones, that might come later) and I'm sure you will be taking pictures in no time. You get a model and subject, she gets some great pictures, and you both get the satisfaction of having purpose. I almost always photograph non professional models, and they are really appreciative of flattering pictures.
But I detect a general dispirited feeling from you, and I'm sure that's not good. You remember the glory days and they can't be re-created, only remembered. You just have to find a new direction.
Jim
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Rob, may I humbly suggest that you go and chat up some attractive woman, doesn't have to be a supermodel, and say you would love to make some beautiful pictures of her. Show some of your portfolio, (perhaps not the naked/topless ones, that might come later) and I'm sure you will be taking pictures in no time. You get a model and subject, she gets some great pictures, and you both get the satisfaction of having purpose. I almost always photograph non professional models, and they are really appreciative of flattering pictures.
But I detect a general dispirited feeling from you, and I'm sure that's not good. You remember the glory days and they can't be re-created, only remembered. You just have to find a new direction.
Jim
Jim, you have unintentionally given me the best laugh of the year and last year, and the year before that... you have no idea about Mallorcan island mentality. In Sicily their brother would shoot you, here they just look the other way if you approach, and, if cornered say yes, never show up and studiously avoid you ever after as some sort of freak. Shall I send you the T-shirt? The T-shirts?
I currently have a single wench interested - she is, I am not - and that is problem enough because though she lives safely sixty kliks away, our mutual friend who made the pitch lives in my own little town. Now I shall have to avoid him in order to avoid offending his sense of taste in women and hers by being rejected. A video link I was sent was all it took to ruin my day...
Matchmakers!
;-)
Rob C
To cheer you up:
http://youtu.be/1k9Ncs5YSPw
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Obviously this is a call for help...
THE KILLER!!!
AGAIN?!!
yeah Rob,
Bukowski was resplendent in his older if somewhat less genteel persona,
warts, balding, object of emasculating forces,
the guy had just about had it in his sixties-
his tombstone epitaph reads:
"Don't Try"
the guy was pure brain set adrift
not unlike many artsy types he was so a product of his relevance;
My fascination with self destructive poet types only begins there
I mean Jerry Lee is in fact a great no doubt'
but I far prefer Brautigan's early if less composed demise...
The cowboy drifter, spirit of this world -one foot in the next...
racing toward glory
At least you got a whiff...
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Obviously this is a call for help...
THE KILLER!!!
AGAIN?!!
yeah Rob,
Bukowski was resplendent in his older if somewhat less genteel persona,
warts, balding, object of emasculating forces,
the guy had just about had it in his sixties-
his tombstone epitaph reads:
"Don't Try"
the guy was pure brain set adrift
not unlike many artsy types he was so a product of his relevance;
My fascination with self destructive poet types only begins there
I mean Jerry Lee is in fact a great no doubt'
but I far prefer Brautigan's early if less composed demise...
The cowboy drifter, spirit of this world -one foot in the next...
racing toward glory
At least you got a whiff...
Rocco, baby, there are no calls for help. Help only exists where there are problems that have solution and to call for help in the desert is pointless. There is no solution to broken hearts and dreams – these are parts of life in meltdown, and I have met none who doesn’t eventually find himself/herself right there. The only way to evade the situation is to live in a cave by yourself and love bears and wolves, spiders and snakes. Or never to have thought.
That’s the unavoidable appeal of the blues, country and possibly much Scottish/Irish music: the knowledge that it always ends in tears, and the better it was the more bitter the sob is going to be. Get ready for it – no, forget it – it’ll be there unbid, in time enough. Buy some Kleenex.
Nope, it’s not pretty and only the commercials promised you otherwise.
http://youtu.be/3kzeCjluvxU
Bright little ditty at first sight, then think about it.
It’s all like that eventually – you leave the movie as you came in.
Thank God for coffee and a shower and someone else cooking lunch until the weekends!
;-)
Rob C
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Jim, you have unintentionally given me the best laugh of the year and last year, and the year before that...
;-)
Rob C
So it was worth me putting finger to keyboard! By the way, It's snowing here. Yes, Easter in the New Forest and it's snowing. I could do with some Mallorcan sun - it would no doubt cheer me up :)
Jim
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Crikey! Rob. You paint a sad picture. Has your family abandoned you? You have a daughter, don't you?
Have you considered retiring in a country where you get more bang for your buck, such as Thailand? You could probably live comfortably there on $1,000 a month and have a maid to do all the house cleaning and washing. Thailand also has excellent hospitals, and the cost of dental care is a fraction of what it is in Australia.
Try taking some Saffron on a regular basis. I believe Spain grows the stuff. It should lift your spirits.
Best of luck!
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what I was really thinking,
if you get a chance to do the things worth doing,
you somehow rode that wave,
you know, really went deeper and found places you only dreamed of,
it seems like it is better than treasure,
better than a candy bar when you were six, better than holding your old Da's hand on the way out the nave,
I mean better than anything...
My friend never got off heroin because of that feeling...
As to crying for love...
well yes, over and over, once down to loving myself I realized my lapses in personality were as delusional as pretending I become more like someone I emulate by emulation...
I yam what I yam...
You is what you is...
damn maudlin...
curmudgeons club women accepted begrudgingly...
I pictured you in a studio splattered with the detritus of creation somehow in a dolly -Italian singer blasting in the background- assistant at the ready, "yes Sir Mr. C, here's your coffee, just how you like it, buffalo fat and beeswax added,,,,
We had a bonfire here last Saturday night,
howling and all...
you could come to our next party if you want Rob, you'll be a guest of hono5r
there'll be a mix and a few hotties past 50 (really)
they're interesting too,
My own Grandma, (92) still comes to them occasionally and gets a little tight here or there, sweet as hell until she has that 3rd 1
We'll have a Passionetta Regata----
I'll end up having to listen to some old maid reciting the ten reasons...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBH8o8XXnVM
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Thailand? Good grief, Ray! I lived in India for around seven years - there's nothing mystical about the East, just fr¡ggin' poverty, ignorance on a massive scale, amazing wealth, corruption and disease.
Spain is paradise as long as you remain part of the solidarity of a couple; take that away and you discover drunks, lost souls (I see and recognize them everywhere now!) and folks with the intelligence to make pots of money and realise nothing about the deadness of their own life; I can only envy them their tunnel vision. These places, stripped of the veneer, are pathetic elephants' graveyards.
Sure I have kids, but the responsibility isn't theirs: I'd hate it to be! That's one of the glitches to going back - the fear of turning into an obligation. Far better they come here for a brief holiday when they feel like it than the routine of Sunday lunches and Christmas en famille! Hell, that was someting we all escaped over thirty years ago, in a mild way!
But the thing is, it's not an individual problem: we all face it sooner or later, and the only way to avoid it is making a pact and hitting a concrete bridge on the motorway at the first signs of decline. But that, to me, not a conventionally religious person, is a sin of the deepest stain. Life is a gift and to end it yourself an insult to the power that gave it to you. It is not an option. Speaking personally, the only way I could entertain the idea is via a gun; anything else would inevitably end in regret: I just know I'd have changed my mind five minutes after slitting those wrists and feeling the bath cool down a degree or two. No way, thank you very much, I know myself too damned well!
Rocco, thank you for the invitation, but I live too far away and could never get affordable travel insurance outwith Europe! Anyway, DVT would probably take me out before the end of the flight. (We actually had a guy die in the row behind us on a BA flight from Nice some years ago. We had a long delay on the runway and it was damned hot; after we took off he had his attack and the crew hadn’t a friggin’ clue what to do. They eventually called for a doctor and by the time a guy owned up, it was too late. Had I known what I know now, I could at least have popped one of my nitroglycerine pills under his tongue and bought him a few minutes more.) Which is quite fortunate for some of you folks, because otherwise, despite my fear of being butchered in a motel, I might have been tempted to do that Route 66 number in a rented old Corvette à la tv series. Who knows – if the eyes hold out a bit longer and the lottery comes up…
But I think you’re safe.
;-)
Rob C
P.S. Joss Stone: with that dress and hair she reminds me of my wife at a certain era in her life; so does Ms McBride. Hair, a crowning glory, and to think how many cut it off. I think it was Ms Stone just had two guys arrested for plotting to kill her at home in England. What is it with these guys? How do they stay out of jail so long?
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Rocco:
Do you like swamp pop rock? I love it.
http://youtu.be/QcriNmPyY-Q
http://youtu.be/FStRkTOP81s
.......................................
http://www.klrzfm.com
is a good station if you do.
Something completely different:
http://youtu.be/9j-hXBEmimY
Rob C
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yes Rob,
blues tinted white...
I like Tom Waites Linda Ronstadt and Billy Bragg
A far cry from the synco pop blue hour sweet midnite riff flower rip off hippy sh-- of my childhood,
limelighters had a place next to monk, had a place next to Cash had a place next to ray charles and little richard,
my favorite from then was indeed bum bumbummun munbum bum bum mumubum
oh suziq bap bom bom bodopomdopum bople dum
hey whatdayawant from an 8 y/o
now it helps that Sasha plays the uke and sings like an angel,
bette midler songs mostly...
bette midler is pretty good I think
what were you asking again-
oh yeah doing instead of thinking-
that's the problem right there,
not enough thinking
hahahahahahahah
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Thailand? Good grief, Ray! I lived in India for around seven years - there's nothing mystical about the East, just fr¡ggin' poverty, ignorance on a massive scale, amazing wealth, corruption and disease.
Don't paint the whole of the East with one brush, Rob. I haven't lived in India for any significant period of time, but I did spend a few months there many years ago. Thailand is in a completely different category. They have some of the best hospitals in the region, and sometimes Australian politicians get into trouble using their expense accounts to fly over there to get their teeth fixed.
If you want to get back to making glamour and nude photos, just for the experience of course, as an amateur, then Thailand is the place where you could do it quite affordably. ;)
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Don't paint the whole of the East with one brush, Rob. I haven't lived in India for any significant period of time, but I did spend a few months there many years ago. Thailand is in a completely different category. They have some of the best hospitals in the region, and sometimes Australian politicians get into trouble using their expense accounts to fly over there to get their teeth fixed.
If you want to get back to making glamour and nude photos, just for the experience of course, as an amateur, then Thailand is the place where you could do it quite affordably. ;)
Ray, why do I feel you are trying to push me into Garry Glitter territory? Is it my tiny rat's tail masquerading as pony?
;-)
Rob C
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I feel wary of turning this too personal, but perhaps it has general interest to lots of folk anyway. Rob, you cannot assume that your presence would be a burden on your children, unless of course you know better!
My father who is now 72 and in failing health is not a particularly great man. He has spent his life as a taker, and rarely a giver, and so it is not really much fun seeing him. On the other hand my Mother in Law who is a sprightly 80 is great to be around. She is always inviting us over for lunch or getting involved in her large family. Yes, she can be slightly irritating at times (especially the selective deafness), but actually everyone loves her and while putting ourselves out for her can be a headache, actually none of us resents it. I can see it must be awful to loose a long-term partner and face life alone - we have quite a few male friends who are in exactly that position, and I feel sure in some ways they find it harder than women in the same position. Women often have good networks of friends already, but men often seem to just have their wives, and when they are gone the men are lost. I cannot imagine anything more lonely then living in a 'foreign' country on my own.
Hey, the sun has come out this morning, though Easter weekend is going to be cold.
Don't be too harsh on Ray's idea about Thailand. Though personally I would feel I was being exploitive, and would rather shoot for the girls than myself. My enjoyment would come from making pictures they enjoy.
Jim
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I feel wary of turning this too personal, but perhaps it has general interest to lots of folk anyway. Rob, you cannot assume that your presence would be a burden on your children, unless of course you know better!
My father who is now 72 and in failing health is not a particularly great man. He has spent his life as a taker, and rarely a giver, and so it is not really much fun seeing him. On the other hand my Mother in Law who is a sprightly 80 is great to be around. She is always inviting us over for lunch or getting involved in her large family. Yes, she can be slightly irritating at times (especially the selective deafness), but actually everyone loves her and while putting ourselves out for her can be a headache, actually none of us resents it. I can see it must be awful to loose a long-term partner and face life alone - we have quite a few male friends who are in exactly that position, and I feel sure in some ways they find it harder than women in the same position. Women often have good networks of friends already, but men often seem to just have their wives, and when they are gone the men are lost. I cannot imagine anything more lonely then living in a 'foreign' country on my own.
Hey, the sun has come out this morning, though Easter weekend is going to be cold.
Don't be too harsh on Ray's idea about Thailand. Though personally I would feel I was being exploitive, and would rather shoot for the girls than myself. My enjoyment would come from making pictures they enjoy.
Jim
I can’t ague the points: you are correct in most of them, but I’m not sure you can be gender-specific in the matter of widows: some rejoice in ‘liberation’ from the old bugger where others mourn for the rest of their days. ;-)
For the widowers, I think that it can be like being orphaned young: at a stroke you lose all the moral support system that keeps you keepin’ on truckin’ even when the rest of the world hopes that you stop. And time. There never seems to be any if you want to do anything other than keep the house clean. Mornings are absolutely hopeless – lunchtime is just about reachable in respectable state: washed, shaved (okay, sometimes) and in clean clothes. That’s winter: come summer, ironing a visible T-shirt takes forever! Either season, the lost best friend is always being missed and nothing compensates. You cope, but you never feel the same again. Also, I find that I now avoid some favourite places because the thrill is gone, and only the blues are evoked if I go there. There used to be a couple of favourite beach restaurants that are now out of bounds: went with the kids a couple of times after their Mum died, and I could see it broke them up too. Ghosts…
Models and Thailand. Actually, it wouldn’t matter even if I found myself back in the U.K. because it isn’t just about finding a wench willing to pose: it’s about working with the best that exist within your client’s budget. And when you are the client, pre-lottery win, there’s not much scope. Guess I was spoiled!
To be brutally frank, I have no wish to spend time shooting girls without that something special that the best can give. To me, the girl is the greater part of the final picture, and my part as snapper is to provide a frame whithin which she can reign. It’s a great experience doing that together, but without somebody skilled, it’s just hard work and sometimes anger is all that you get from it. Were it just about looking at someone without their clothes on, it would be one thing, but that’s not where it’s at for me. That would be easy. Hookers advertise over two pages of personal ads here; just a call and a few euros away. With a camera, I would be an easy John.
I also think that I haven’t really thought well enough and deeply enough about the thing. I realise that my likes are shifting away from what I used to do as featured in the web site; I keep thinking of a shot Cooter posted a couple of times of a ballet school in Moscow (I think that’s the location) and those moods and ambiences I find very attractive – much more so than beaches of which I’ve had more than my share. I’d really enjoy shooting in a ballet school, drama college; muscians rehearsing, that sort of thing. Maybe I’m just getting older than I thought! But it’s restful.
;-)
Rob C
-
I also think that I haven’t really thought well enough and deeply enough about the thing. I realise that my likes are shifting away from what I used to do as featured in the web site; I keep thinking of a shot Cooter posted a couple of times of a ballet school in Moscow (I think that’s the location) and those moods and ambiences I find very attractive – much more so than beaches of which I’ve had more than my share. I’d really enjoy shooting in a ballet school, drama college; muscians rehearsing, that sort of thing. Maybe I’m just getting older than I thought! But it’s restful.
;-)
Rob C
Now you're talking Rob! A new direction. Nicky my wife has always had a wish to photograph in a ballet school - but she was a bit apprehensive about approaching them. Recently she has started going to one on a Monday evening and starting to shoot. Problem is that it's just a small town school and not very attractive inside. However we chatted to mum and daughter on a train to London in December - having noted the girl looked as if she might be going to a ballet school. It turns out that they live just a few miles from us and the girl- Gigi (of course) attends the Royal Ballet on Saturdays. Nicky now has a model and has completed one shoot with another booked next week. The theme will be ballet dancer on location (beach, woods etc). Just a personal project which may or may not lead to commissions.
Jim
-
you see, it's easy for me to recognize hours-
we could count them if we wanted
Sasha just got back from the desert and says the sad thing about ocatillo bushes are the border jumper's chamis...
She's searching for phenolic compounds in Californian Native flora- Alexandra Pendragon's Magical Elixir- containing wonders of the botanical primogeniture, secrets of the mystics and staff of life to those most fierce and hardy
If the cops raid my house they would arrest everyone first and ask questions later-
It is littered with interesting paraphernalia of compound extraction.
Like Madam Curie she'll probably kick from absorbing too much yapple...
-
Hi Jim,
Hope it works out for your wife - those dancer/actor personalities can be quite interesting to get to grips with - if you can! Some years before I managed to break from the industrial photo-unit I trained in and go my own way, I was able to find a seam in the Glasgow College of Dramatic Art. I met some young actresses courtesy the secretary there and enjoyed making a couple of them 'books' for their future. I sometimes wonder what became of them these many years later; maybe they just grew out of it or became famous - who knows... Pleasant and rewarding experiences at the time.
Rob C
-
you see, it's easy for me to recognize hours-
we could count them if we wanted
Sasha just got back from the desert and says the sad thing about ocatillo bushes are the border jumper's chamis...She's searching for phenolic compounds in Californian Native flora- Alexandra Pendragon's Magical Elixir- containing wonders of the botanical primogeniture, secrets of the mystics and staff of life to those most fierce and hardy
If the cops raid my house they would arrest everyone first and ask questions later-
It is littered with interesting paraphernalia of compound extraction.
Like Madam Curie she'll probably kick from absorbing too much yapple...
Just the tonic for Sasha:
http://youtu.be/Ua9DN8ZXmOw
Rob C
-
hahha
forever reminds me of "you can check out anytime you like but....."
Hughes Mearns
http://www.poets.org/viewmedia.php/prmMID/22064
-
Although it is pretty rare nowadays I don't achieve exactly the result I want when I decide to take a picture, there are some pictures I like looking at much more than others among mines and obviously among those of other photographers.
This is both very bad and very good:
- on the plus side, it means that I have clearly identified my challenge (vision and concept) and that this challenge is probably without limits but that of the time I'll be given to think about what images I want to create,
- on the minus side, it means that I actually don't really need to take pictures anymore. I'd rather stop wasting time pressing the shutter... and spend more time thinking. The obvious consequence being that I don't need more megapixels, lenses,...
Now I am saying that this is a bad news because I probably find photography relaxing precisely because I don't need to think much to achieve what I come up with today... So it looks like I have a problem also Rob... ;)
Cheers,
Bernard
-
The thinking, is what elevates common art work to a "Work of Art".
Peter
-
Although it is pretty rare nowadays I don't achieve exactly the result I want when I decide to take a picture, there are some pictures I like looking at much more than others among mines and obviously among those of other photographers.
This is both very bad and very good:
- on the plus side, it means that I have clearly identified my challenge (vision and concept) and that this challenge is probably without limits but that of the time I'll be given to think about what images I want to create,
- on the minus side, it means that I actually don't really need to take pictures anymore. I'd rather stop wasting time pressing the shutter... and spend more time thinking. The obvious consequence being that I don't need more megapixels, lenses,...Now I am saying that this is a bad news because I probably find photography relaxing precisely because I don't need to think much to achieve what I come up with today... So it looks like I have a problem also Rob... ;)
Cheers,
Bernard
I hate to tell you, but I've been there for quite some time and not a lot is changing for the better. In fact, the main driver to shooting at all is to find something to do other than to sit and think. When you don't find pleasant thoughts, you're best distracting yourself in any way you can.
But it's true: when you know how to do what you want to do, you need more than that if it doesn't really matter anymore. And that's the frustration with pretty much everything: I wander about every day, and some days something interesting crops up, and other days zilch. The problem is that it's all out of my control: I see or I do not see. This stuff about 'challenges' I simply can't understand: it's just up to nature and happenstance, unlike paid work where it's all up to skill and money to achieve the result required.
However, I don't want to presume to name names, but I'm fairly sure I am not 100% alone in this frustration! In fact, perhaps it has nothing to do with frustration at all; perhaps it's just the way things are.
Rob C
-
Photography, of itself, is not enough; it cannot and will not sustain your spiritual life.
Nor anything else... I think a guy named Solomon wrote a whole treatise on this very subject.
Something about vanity and chasing after the wind...
Rand
-
creators and creation
what would you have?
No vision, metaphorically speaking
or dried up vision?
I ran around w/ an heiress,
all I had to do was shut up and tow the line...
really she adored me- I loved her -no one could've mapped the rotten outcome more clearly than I did.
Broke, hard from the road, lacking even rudimentary skills to deal with the blow that couldn't come soon enough,
I just don't want to be remembered as a miserable old creepster
THAT'S why,
that even when faced with destiny and forces that chose ME not so much the other way around,
I'm a sore loser,
will find that spark
mantra for the new millennium
everything is greeeaatttt
don't lift your head, the roar means nothing...
-
The problem is that it's all out of my control: I see or I do not see. This stuff about 'challenges' I simply can't understand: it's just up to nature and happenstance, unlike paid work where it's all up to skill and money to achieve the result required.
I am not sure in fact. I think there is a clear methodology to the creative process or the expensipn/re-birth of the vision. But somehow I don't seem to be able/willing to force myself to apply it consistently.
Cheers,
Bernard
-
Bernard -
Possibly there is a system, but in my own experience it only exists within a working situation because, then, there is no time to swan around thinking great thoughts: you just get on with whatever there is needs doing. Remove the financial imperative and it sinks into something much softer - a sort of maybe, maybe not space where it doesn't really matter and might just be a waste of time doing whatever just in case it doesn't work. And should it work, so what?
Perhaps it comes down to personality, but I'm not sure about that, because if it did, then failure would be staring one in the face all the time. Now that I think about it, doesn't that measure the freelance situation? Isn't disaster always but an assignment away? I've known several guys in this business constantly talk up their situation, yet a month later the doors are closed. I had a printer cl¡ent like that: stock reply to any question was 'no problem! We can do it" Except that they couldn't.
Rob C
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I was looking at the words of "King Henry" last night, and had forgotten the other meaning of "woo" is "to seek to achieve".
Let never a man a wooing wend
That lacketh things three.
A store of gold an open heart
And full of charity.
-
I was looking at the words of "King Henry" last night, and had forgotten the other meaning of "woo" is "to seek to achieve".
Let never a man a wooing wend
That lacketh things three.
A store of gold an open heart
And full of charity.
Warning from a metropolitan divorcé?
Rob C
-
Warning from a metropolitan divorcé?
Rob C
For starters, more a warning from my bank manager when I mention my next photography purchase. ;)
-
For starters, more a warning from my bank manager when I mention my next photography purchase. ;)
I didn't know you lived in Cyprus!
Rob bC
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Rob C, you seem to be running into "photographer's block".
"(fill in the blank) block afflicts a lot of people in a lot of areas, particularly people who work solo much of the time. I have had the same phenomenon, in scientific research.
Sometimes teaching your subject to talented or curious beginners is a way to get the zest back in your pursuit of the subject.
Do you have hobbies or interests outside of photography? Might there be some way to combine hobbies and photography? Or just pursue the hobby and forget about photography for a while.
Do you have a writer friend you could collaborate with for a project? Is there a non-profit organization that needs some photographs in order to explain or perform its mission?
Go for a hike or a car trip with outdoor walking excursions, and just look around sans camera. Fresh air and exercise help elevate lousy moods.
-
farbeitfromme to say whats what especially in the case of humans,
but have you seen robs cell phone snaps?
Go look,
um I wouldn't call it "photographer's block"
hey rob justa shout...
:):D
-
Nancy, Rocco –
Well, there are problems, but probably no more so than for anybody else. In most ways I know I’m damned fortunate to be where I am, to have achieved whatever I have, etc. but perhaps it’s that none of the past seems to count for much in the present: it’s the thought of tomorrow that used to drive, but when there’s no professional tomorrow, then what? It wasn’t just photography – it was very much the entire photographic environment – life-style, I suppose – that was the buzz. The planning of shoots, pricing – casting, recce work and all of that; seeing different countries in high style on a client’s tab, all of it gave a huge sense of being alive, of being part of something exciting, something different to the guy next door. Especially to my guys next door in suburbia, no offence meant!
Then of course, it’s the missing half of the personal equation, and nothing, even work, could replace her, so I guess it’s the road we all travel in one way or the other - the credits roll up, the music fades, the audience gets up…
Creativity doesn’t ever die: one day it just finds itself without a home.
;-)
Rob C
-
... in high style on a client’s tab...
So, not doing it, but being paid for doing it is key? Or, to extend the metaphor, to find joy in sex one needs to... ;D
-
yukyuk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97IBY8cQ5fs
-
yukyuk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97IBY8cQ5fs
http://youtu.be/MJ_bkuAZD8A
Rob C
-
So, not doing it, but being paid for doing it is key? Or, to extend the metaphor, to find joy in sex one needs to... ;D
Almost there but not quite: without the peripheral buzz it's just a wank. Anyone can do that.
Shit! maybe that's where the glaucoma came from: they always did say "it's bad for your eyes, darling!" Oh well, could have been worse.
;-)
Rob C
-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08e9k-c91E8
check
-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08e9k-c91E8
check
http://youtu.be/f3k7ZrKHRIg
mate.
Rob C
-
Rob C., you aren't alone. Grief and depression and "stuckness" happen to most people. If you can join a non-photography hobbyists' group (eg, community chorus), or go to church/temple/mosque and work on a community assistance project with fellow congregants, or volunteer as docent at a museum or zoo, or... any activity that isn't photography and gets you out among people, it might help with the depression and stuckness. I am not being a pollyanna, this is what I have done in the past and present to get out of major depression and stay out. Sciemtific research, or photography, or any single pursuit, can't provide everything to a person's spirit.
-
Rob C., you aren't alone. Grief and depression and "stuckness" happen to most people. If you can join a non-photography hobbyists' group (eg, community chorus), or go to church/temple/mosque and work on a community assistance project with fellow congregants, or volunteer as docent at a museum or zoo, or... any activity that isn't photography and gets you out among people, it might help with the depression and stuckness. I am not being a pollyanna, this is what I have done in the past and present to get out of major depression and stay out. Sciemtific research, or photography, or any single pursuit, can't provide everything to a person's spirit.
Hi Nancy
Thanks for the interest, and it really is appreciated, but the trouble is that I’ve never been much of a ‘joiner’ and this LuLa thing is about as far as I’ve ever gone into habit! I did find myself invited to join a local ‘art’ group a few year ago, and I did so along with maybe eighty other people. Within a year the numbers had fallen to a core of perhaps twenty or fifteen, the eighty never turned up at any meeting, just on paper prior to the inauguration, and even the original president walked out at the end of the first year: the reason was language. The guy was from Madrid and didn’t speak the local patois which is a version of Catalan. The ‘official’ language is supposed to be Castilian but on this island there is the same heady sense of isolation and nationalism that affects many other tiny groupings who find themselves washed up on the edges of the main national identity, and they take refuge in being difficult. In effect, though most local people speak both versions of Spanish perfectly, they refused to continue with the lingua franca everyone else foreign to the island understood… so, when the second year began I realised it was all going right over my head – intentionally. I didn’t return after the first meeting of that second year, and left them to carry on speaking in code.
I didn’t leave much. During the first year they organized a series of shows and absurd events over a couple of weeks of peak tourist season. At the first meeting post-events, the folks at the helm were praising the shows as a success. When I asked how many painting, photographs, sculptures etc. had been sold, the answer was one. I replied that in my sense of definition, that wasn’t success, it was financial disaster. I was greeted by a nervous giggle… who needs this crap? Fantasists.
Actually, one of the greatest problems faced is time: it takes forever to get out of the apartment every day, and I don’t really want to venture forth unwashed, a mess of breakfast dishes and unmade bed (hmm… sounds an idea) awaiting my return! That leaves half a day to think self, and I do my best with some luck at times and often none at all. The thing is, working for a living is a thing that brings its own unavoidable disciplines, but messing about as a retired old geezer is something very else! For a start, one no longer has the energy or physical strength to cart stuff around very far. But anyway, on that score, I long ago concluded that it made more sense to venture forth with a single lens and do what one could with it without the distractions of ‘choice’.
I understand your point about looking for something outwith snaps, but to tell the truth, I have a limited set of abilites, and though I’d enjoy getting into music, I have no talent for that, and even the pros that I used to photograph have had next to no gigs this winter nor yet this summer. The crisis. Nobody spends anything they can avoid spending. Not much MFD about these parts, but I could be mistaken and have just never seen it.
Ciao –
Rob C
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One aspect that is essential in this discussion, yet has not been mentioned yet, is the aspect of publication. Taking pictures (or producing any form of art) is only half of the equation: you also need a public. Without somebody to actually watch the picture, the picture itself is meaningless. You also want to communicate what you have seen to somebody else. Without the ability to show your pictures, without someone to appreciate them, taking pictures becomes a pointless exercise. As somebody told me once: "I take pictures because I enjoy taking pictures, but sometimes I wonder why I put a film in the camera. It would be much easier without it". Yet, taking pictures that nobody ever sees is like throwing bottles into the sea and never getting any message back.
Some amateurs, probably a lot more than one would believe, still take pictures and never show them. Think about Vivian Mayer and 50 years of undeveloped film in cardboard boxes. That is a good illustration to your saying: "you do it because you have no option".
Of course undeveloped film does not exist with a digital camera. And, in our modern world, it would appear at first sight that the problem of publishing pictures is largely solved: the Internet makes it easy to publish.
The problem has not been solved, the second part of the journey is still no completed. It is easy to put up pictures for people to see. It is still difficult to have people actually watch them. For that, the pictures need to be of interest to them. Now, "interest" or "interesting" are overused words in the English language, but I am using the word in its original meaning here: the viewer needs to find something in the picture that belongs to what he or she is interested in. For a pro, that problem does not exist: if someone is hiring you to take a picture, that person is per definition interested in the result. A pro photographer is someone producing pictures of interest to the clients (and not necessarily of interest to him or her). For an amateur, the opposite is true: you are producing pictures which interest you, but there is no reason that they would be of interest to anyone else. And it has nothing with the photograph being aesthetically pleasing, impressive, artistic or anything of that kind. The world is full of very nice pictures which interest nobody.
Bridging the other half of the journey is dependent on finding people interested in what interests you. A bit like the Bechers did: they liked to photograph water towers and found out that there were people regretting that those disappeared without leaving a trace. Could you do that? Could you find people interested in what interests you? What are you interested in?
-
One aspect that is essential in this discussion, yet has not been mentioned yet, is the aspect of publication. Taking pictures (or producing any form of art) is only half of the equation: you also need a public. Without somebody to actually watch the picture, the picture itself is meaningless. You also want to communicate what you have seen to somebody else. Without the ability to show your pictures, without someone to appreciate them, taking pictures becomes a pointless exercise. As somebody told me once: "I take pictures because I enjoy taking pictures, but sometimes I wonder why I put a film in the camera. It would be much easier without it". Yet, taking pictures that nobody ever sees is like throwing bottles into the sea and never getting any message back.
Some amateurs, probably a lot more than one would believe, still take pictures and never show them. Think about Vivian Mayer and 50 years of undeveloped film in cardboard boxes. That is a good illustration to your saying: "you do it because you have no option".
Of course undeveloped film does not exist with a digital camera. And, in our modern world, it would appear at first sight that the problem of publishing pictures is largely solved: the Internet makes it easy to publish.
The problem has not been solved, the second part of the journey is still no completed. It is easy to put up pictures for people to see. It is still difficult to have people actually watch them. For that, the pictures need to be of interest to them. Now, "interest" or "interesting" are overused words in the English language, but I am using the word in its original meaning here: the viewer needs to find something in the picture that belongs to what he or she is interested in. For a pro, that problem does not exist: if someone is hiring you to take a picture, that person is per definition interested in the result. A pro photographer is someone producing pictures of interest to the clients (and not necessarily of interest to him or her). For an amateur, the opposite is true: you are producing pictures which interest you, but there is no reason that they would be of interest to anyone else. And it has nothing with the photograph being aesthetically pleasing, impressive, artistic or anything of that kind. The world is full of very nice pictures which interest nobody.
Bridging the other half of the journey is dependent on finding people interested in what interests you. A bit like the Bechers did: they liked to photograph water towers and found out that there were people regretting that those disappeared without leaving a trace. Could you do that? Could you find people interested in what interests you? What are you interested in?
jerome_m
You are right, of course, and it’s exactly the same thing I’ve said repeatedly: there has to be a purpose to make it worthwhile. Which also fits in nicely with Terence Donovan’s dictum about the greatest problem facing the amateur being a reason why to take a picture. I don’t think that, in isolation, it brings its own reward for either pro or am. Something more is required, and used as therapy for the overcoming of anything else, I imagine it simply adds a further level of tension or even angst. It can’t be a lot of fun shooting stuff nobody sees or, if they do, brings no response. And even response needs to come from someone the author respects for his views on the matter in hand.
So yeah, at the end of the day, the best praise or ego-massage is money changing hands.
;-)
Rob C
-
I agree with Nancy, Rob. For me, for example, part of the interest in photography is associated with travel to exotic locations. Without the motive to take photographs, I probably wouldn't visit certain locations, or spend as much time there interacting with the locals or waiting for the light to be right, and without the motive to travel and get about, I probably wouldn't be so interested in taking photos.
When I return to home base with several gigabytes of RAW data, the processing of such images becomes another interesting activity in itself, selecting and cropping, manipulating and stitching etc, and whilst I'm doing that I feel as though I'm reliving the experiences I had on my travels when I initially captured the shots. It's almost like getting two holidays for the price of one.
Whilst I've always been interested in photography, the activity of processing my own images in a literally dark room, never appealed to me. When it became possible to process my images in a literally light room, sitting comfortably in a chair in a room with a view, my interest in photography increased.
I find it fantastic that my digital negatives can potentially be processed again and again in so many different ways with increasingly more options as time goes by and as software becomes more sophisticated.
However, it's perhaps easy to offer advice when one is still active and fit. If you are really having so much physical difficulty in getting around, and making your bed, and are reluctant to even visit the beach in case you bring sand into your house, I can appreciate that photography might not be much of a priority.
I also find it a bit of a pain attending to basic chores like cleaning the house, washing the bed sheets, weeding the garden etc. It's why I suggested a move to a place like Thailand might help in your situation. I don't know what the cost of living is in Spain, but in Thailand one can rent a fully serviced apartment for about the same cost as the rent of a small unserviced room in Australia.
As I get older I would prefer to be as free as possible from time-consuming chores.
Ciao!
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Hi Rob,
How about a body of work that eventually becomes a book project.
That can give you purpose and frustration all at the same time, and as well a commercial venture. This will consume your life, in a good way. It grows at your pace, whatever that may be, at any given time.
Best,
Peter
-
“However, it's perhaps easy to offer advice when one is still active and fit. If you are really having so much physical difficulty in getting around, and making your bed, and are reluctant to even visit the beach in case you bring sand into your house, I can appreciate that photography might not be much of a priority. – Ray”
Not quite as bad as that yet, Ray, but it does take me a helluva lot of time to do domestic because I am not the most organized of people that I know… and it always keeps on building up: got a wooden shutter taken away for repair yesterday (window, not camera), and to my utter amazement, the joiner brought it back, fixed, this morning. And it started to rain. So, I have the shutter sitting in the office because I can’t hang bare wood outside; I now have to seal it and then paint several layers of nogal varnish over it in order to match thirty years of annual applications of said joy. Then, when that’s done, it needs to be further sealed with a coat or two of marine varnish. Varnish takes at least a day between coats; this simple job could easily consume more than a week! You perceive the domestic distractions?
As for the excitement of living in the Far East: didn’t you note what happened to the photographer and general in Apocalypse Now?
“How about a body of work that eventually becomes a book project.
That can give you purpose and frustration all at the same time, and as well a commercial venture. This will consume your life, in a good way. It grows at your pace, whatever that may be, at any given time. – petermfiore”
Peter, frustration is something I have by the truck-load; I don’t need any more! Yes, you are right in principle and I have often thought of this very thing, but always end up looking either too far ahead at the logistics, the cost and the likelihood of ever selling anything. Even worked out a fiendish plot a couple of years ago and pitched it to a couple of companies that played around with the idea for a month or so and then went mute. However, should that lottery thing happen, it’s part of the projected master plan, which entails a leisurely tour of the Relais & Châteaux, possibly a Canal du Midi trip on a luxo-barge, and things of that nature. I didn’t mind too much some ten years ago, but I no longer feel inclined to travel second-class. Damn, that would probably mean another car. You see the problems that come with thought?
Most of the mental things still work; the problem lies more in the infamous ‘reasons to make a snap and get paid for it’ zone: the Photographer's Triangle.
;-)
Rob C
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Another great film:
http://youtu.be/mkQklk_cfVs (http://youtu.be/mkQklk_cfVs)
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dude
Peter Sellers without a shoe hasn't had an easier chance for an audience-
you realize you get some thousands of views on your threads right?
probably 30 views each from a bunch of geeks but,
that doesn't explain all of it.
Not by a longshot,
if I had access to a thousand people what would I say???
I hope something good...
-
Not quite as bad as that yet, Ray, but it does take me a helluva lot of time to do domestic because I am not the most organized of people that I know… and it always keeps on building up: got a wooden shutter taken away for repair yesterday (window, not camera), and to my utter amazement, the joiner brought it back, fixed, this morning. And it started to rain. So, I have the shutter sitting in the office because I can’t hang bare wood outside; I now have to seal it and then paint several layers of nogal varnish over it in order to match thirty years of annual applications of said joy. Then, when that’s done, it needs to be further sealed with a coat or two of marine varnish. Varnish takes at least a day between coats; this simple job could easily consume more than a week! You perceive the domestic distractions?
That's exactly what I mean, Rob. When one is young and energetic, such menial tasks are no problem. Sometimes they might even be a novelty and an interesting challenge.
However, as one gets older, and with repetition, the novelty wears off and the tasks can become tedious chores that take up too much of the valuable remaining time one has on this earth.
When I travel overseas, I prefer to stay in serviced apartments rather than hotel rooms because they are generally better value and more spacious, usually featuring a separate bedroom and a reasonably large living/dining area with small kitchen.
With buffet-style breakfast included, which becomes the main meal of the day, I feel a wonderful sense of liberation from tedious chores.
As for the excitement of living in the Far East: didn’t you note what happened to the photographer and general in Apocalypse Now?
I hope, Rob, that I am always able to distinguish between fiction and reality. ;)
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I hope, Rob, that I am always able to distinguish between fiction and reality. ;)
Sheeesh, Ray, you mean they aren't the same?
There's only time for one go round, so live the best version you can - just like that cat in North Korea! Had I two missiles I'd move them too; I'd march my men up and down the hill, just like York! Of course, I don't really wish to have an army of men, but a small platoon of ladies out of Elite might be cool... fairly redundant, in bulk, but cool nonetheless.
;-)
Rob C