Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Cameras, Lenses and Shooting gear => Topic started by: Andrew Makiejewski on February 22, 2013, 11:13:58 pm
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Hi everyone. I am looking a full frame camera in the near future. It will be used for landscape and macro only. I am looking at either the Canon 5D Mk III or the Nikon D800. The really good images will be printed and I like large prints 16 x 20 and larger. Any really top notch landscapes would like to print at least 48 inches wide. I currently have Canon camera and lenses, but am OK in getting a Nikon camera. Use the best tool for the job.
I would like to hear from landscape photographers who make large prints in regards to which lenses to get the best image quality Which Canon, Nikon or other lenses would you recommend. This is a hobby so $3K + lenses are out of the question. Lenses that are sharp centre to edge mostly or a bit soft at the very edge,
Have been reading a lot on the internet and there is a lot of dribble out there and would like to hear from those that use the right tools in this area of photography.
Thanks very much.
Andrew
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Im using a Canon 5D3 and printing/selling A2 (17"x22").
Lenses 21mm Zeiss, 35mm f1.4 Zeiss, 50mm MP Zeiss and 100MP Zeiss.
Also the Canon 17mm TSE and 24mm TSE are great.
If you want to print larger than this I would go with the Nikon. In fact the Nikon D800E is better period, for landscape.
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The Micro Nikkor 55mm, f2.8 AIS (or is it AI?) is an astonishingly good lens which can be had for peanuts on ebay. Pixel sharp from full frame corner to corner, essentially zero chromatic, high contrast. I use it in full manual mode on a 5D2 with a cheap adapter, and with a D7000. As good as it gets. Manual everything on the 5D2, of course.
If you want sharp landscapes, use stitching. Basically every part of the image is the optical sweet spot, no fuzzy corners, your resolution is limited only by your ambition and patience.
(Hey Peter, I beat you to it this time!)
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If you start from scratch today for landscape work, go D800e.
As far as lenses go, the recommendation will depend on the focal length, there is an amazing line up. I personally stitch a lot with the Zeiss 50mm f2.0. The 24mm ts is also excellent for landscape applications where tilt is the main thing.
Cheers,
Bernard
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I have sometimes been tempted by the Zeiss lenses and maybe one day I will succumb.
At present with my D800 and D800E, however, the lenses that I use most often for landscape are (in order of frequency of use):
Nikkor 24-70mm f/2.8
Nikkor 70-200mm f/2.8 VRII
Nikkor 14-24mm f/2.8
They all perform well.
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I quote myself from another thread:
If DxO is to be trusted, the best primes for D800E would be:
Nikon 85 f:1.8 G, 35 points, the SHARPEST lens they have measured so far (lens + camera combination, D3x). $500.
Sigma 50 f:1.4 DG, 28 points, sharpest normal lens so far. $500.
Sigma 35 f:1.4 DG, 30 points, the sharpest mid-wide so far (measured with canon 5D3, D800 should be better). $900.
Nikon 24 f:1.4 G ED, 29 points, best "landscape-wide" so far. Almost $2000.
Carl Zeiss Distagon T* 15 f:2.8, 23 points, best ultra-wide. $3000.
As we can see, the quality goes down with wider angles but prices explode, so stitching, when possible, is recommended.
Nikon 85 and those Sigmas are real winners in both quality and price. Nikon 14-28 as practically as good as 15mm Zeiss, but $1000 cheaper. It could also replace the 24mm f:1.4.
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Hi,
If you happen to compare DxO measurements you would see that there is very little difference between the 24/1.4 and the 24-70/2.8 if you shoot both at f/5.6. Most decent lenses are sharpest around 5.6 - 8.
It's highly unlikely that f/1.4 would be used for landscape.
Best regards
Erik
I quote myself from another thread:
If DxO is to be trusted, the best primes for D800E would be:
Nikon 85 f:1.8 G, 35 points, the SHARPEST lens they have measured so far (lens + camera combination, D3x). $500.
Sigma 50 f:1.4 DG, 28 points, sharpest normal lens so far. $500.
Sigma 35 f:1.4 DG, 30 points, the sharpest mid-wide so far (measured with canon 5D3, D800 should be better). $900.
Nikon 24 f:1.4 G ED, 29 points, best "landscape-wide" so far. Almost $2000.
Carl Zeiss Distagon T* 15 f:2.8, 23 points, best ultra-wide. $3000.
As we can see, the quality goes down with wider angles but prices explode, so stitching, when possible, is recommended.
Nikon 85 and those Sigmas are real winners in both quality and price. Nikon 14-28 as practically as good as 15mm Zeiss, but $1000 cheaper. It could also replace the 24mm f:1.4.
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Thanks to everyone that replied and for the info.
I have been reading the various reviews and lens tests and are a starting point. Knowing the quality of the print or large print is also a valuable part of lens review (at least if you make prints).
Will take this info to help me narrow down and help what to go with.
Andrew
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(Hey Peter, I beat you to it this time!)
Damn. :)
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It's highly unlikely that f/1.4 would be used for landscape.
That is true, basically also slower & cheaper lenses are likely serve (just as) well if used only stopped down for more DOF, and past f:8 or so they are all diffraction limited anyway. I just have this available light documentary side in me which likes fast glass... Should be getting the f:1.4 Sigma 35 any day now.
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Hi,
My point was mostly that it is a good idea to check out the graphs on DxO-mark. That single figure of merit may not match the priorities that you have.
Best regards
Erik
That is true, basically also slower & cheaper lenses are likely serve (just as) well if used only stopped down for more DOF, and past f:8 or so they are all diffraction limited anyway. I just have this available light documentary side in me which likes fast glass... Should be getting the f:1.4 Sigma 35 any day now.
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Hi Petrus,
I got my new Sigma 35mm F1.4 lens the other day. I did a test outside my studio in the car park and also used my Nikon 35mm F1.4G lens.
After all the fantastic reviews I had read about the Sigma the results I got where so bad I re packed it up and sent it back to the NZ rep for Sigma. The Nikon 35mm F1.4G was clearly superior.
I can You Send some raw shot if you like.
Ciao
Simon
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Another D800E landscape shooter here.
Recently purchased 2 Zeisses,the 21 f/2.8 and 100 f/2.
Stitched panos from the 100 are to die for,so sharp.
For wider shots the Zeiss 21 and Nikon 14-24 f/2.8 are my go to pieces.
The new filter adapter for the 14-24 from Lee is excellent if you go that route.
I wanted mf for years and just could not afford it.
This is as close as it gets output wise with only a 5k outlay.
20"x60" stitched panos shot with D800E/Zeiss really stand out against some shot 5 years ago with the D200 and D2Xs.
Time to reshoot some of the older ones I guess.
Andrew,
The Zeiss 100 f/2 was really purchased by me for macro use. I am finding it to be my most used lens for macro and landscapes,it is that good.
To get to 1:1 I have the Kenko extension tube set which will get me there and further if I want. Awaiting for spring to really try them out.
Someone over at Nikonians has a used one for sale.
* Just take note it is a ZF not the ZF.2 It is listed for $1300
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Thanks once again for the replies from the second group.
All the info is useful to help me decide which lenses to use. Reading the info out there certainly could drive one crazy trying to decide. This site/forum has many persons with lots of useful knowledge.
Another question that I should have asked in relation to the Nikon camera is D800 or D800E? I do fairly well at post processing. So I would like to hear from those here, what your results are.
I know that the D800 will be great for single frame images, but the Canon 5D Mk III would suffice if I stitch a few frames together. So many decisions, so few brain cells.
Also have been looking at the DXO and other specs. Hearing from those who use the lens and the their findings is of great use as well
Thanks again.
Andrew
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question that I should have asked in relation to the Nikon camera is D800 or D800E? I do fairly well at post processing. So I would like to hear from those here, what your results are.
The D800 files are so clean from highlight to shadows that they can pretty much take any processing you throw at them.
I was reworking the other day some old D2X files, themselves very clean I thought, and was amazed at how much progress has been made in a few years.
Cheers,
Bernard
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Apologies for going on a tangent, but what pano head setup are you guys using for your landscape panoramas?
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Hi,
I mostly just just my Arca D4 head, sometimes with a simple nodal slider from RRS.
Before that I used the RRS Pano head, but the Arca makes the same job.
Best regards
Erik
Apologies for going on a tangent, but what pano head setup are you guys using for your landscape panoramas?
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I was reworking the other day some old D2X files, themselves very clean I thought, and was amazed at how much progress has been made in a few years.
Have also been reworking my best D2X work, using the miraculous sliders in LR4. I am reminded how much I miss the abundant, small-sensor DOF in near/far landscape shots. I would need to resort to T/S or focus stacking or egregious cropping to do as good with my FF, as judged by same sized, large prints. Am going to give the D7100 a try before going on to whatever trumps the D800x. But anyway, just as much progress in software as in hardware.
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Have also been reworking my best D2X work, using the miraculous sliders in LR4. I am reminded how much I miss the abundant, small-sensor DOF in near/far landscape shots. I would need to resort to T/S or focus stacking or egregious cropping to do as good with my FF, as judged by same sized, large prints. Am going to give the D7100 a try before going on to whatever trumps the D800x. But anyway, just as much progress in software as in hardware.
Yes, indeed.
Cheers,
Bernard
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Well, from Canon, there are many excellent lenses for landscape: the TSE series (especially the 17mm and 24mm); the new 24-70L f/2.8 MKII zoom (which is excepcionally sharp); the 70-200L f/2.8 MKII zoom; the 100L f/2.8 macro... the zooms are really very good, equivalent to primes, and offer very useful flexibility for landscape shooting.
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Andrew, I use a D800 w/21 Zeiss and Zeiss 50 Makro for stitching. If you want to use t/s lenses the Canon is the only way to go.
Also check out Photozone for lens tests. I believe they rank the Nikon 85 1.4G as the highest resolving lens.
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Bill, you're the only guy whose lens opinions I trust, since you own a 55 Micro Nikkor. : )
Do you have any experience with the 105 Micro Nikkor? Does it have the same magic as the 55? I'm jonesing for one.
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Rather than imparting my opinion, I'll share how Ansel Adams has already responded to this question:
"It is certainly inhibiting to adhere blindly to any existing equipment if one can change to a better selection; it is poor economy to continue the use of equipment on a purely habitual basis." - Ansel Adams (care nothing of brands, be flexible in your approach)
"It is significant that the greatest creative photographers use simple basic equipment - everything of adequate quality, nothing that is unessential. If the photographer will first think of the camera in its most elementary terms, he will better understand what equipment is most suitable for his needs. Rather than work from the complex down, it is better to work up from the simple!" - Ansel Adams
"As the photographer branches out into his chosen fields, his objective should be to acquire the simplest but most efficient equipment for his purposes." - Ansel Adams
The crux of this could be interpreted that equipment can often times act as a barrier to creative seeing, and that getting the hardware aspect of photography out of the way as soon as possible can be of high value. In other words, just choose something of sufficient quality and move on (and ignore the noise of technical chatter).
Graham
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Well, from Canon, there are many excellent lenses for landscape: the TSE series (especially the 17mm and 24mm); the new 24-70L f/2.8 MKII zoom (which is excepcionally sharp); the 70-200L f/2.8 MKII zoom; the 100L f/2.8 macro... the zooms are really very good, equivalent to primes, and offer very useful flexibility for landscape shooting.
I would add the TSE 90mm. Exceptionally sharp and good lens inside the whole image circle, making it ideal for stitching. The image attached is taken with a 5D III and the TSE 90 and is a stitch of three images using the shift of the lens (and some tilt). Only takes me 15 seconds to take and gives me an 40+ mpixels image.
Ronny
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I use the D800E too. I've had it for awhile and tried a number of lenses on it and the 28-300mm pretty much lives on the camera. It probably isn't the sharpest lens made but it's the most versitile of the bunch. I mostly hike and sometimes (most of the time) I'm miles from the car. I simply can't carry a basket of primes. I think the 28-300mm on a D800e will give one of the primes on a D800 a real run for it's money. I also carry the 55mm micro around a lot too. It weighs nothing. Several of the old manual focus primes are really good lenses. I carry a 20mm f3.5 a lot too. I have a 16-35 f4 but don't carry it nearly as much as the 28-300..
If you always shoot from beside your car, never mind.. (-:}
I have done a number of 16x20 prints and feel like the printer is a weaker link than the lens. I haven't found a lens yet that didn't perform better on the D800E than any other camera I own (D50/90/100/200/700). I've shot some pretty decent shots from this camera with a $5 sears zoom I got at a flea market. Maybe not Nat Geo quality at 20x30 but still better than anything from my D700..
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Once again, thanks to everyone for sharing your knowledge and replies to my query.
I have added the relavent information to my spreadsheet. The big step will be deciding between the Nikon D800E and the Canon 5D Mk III. Either way a serious outlay of money for a hobby.
Happy shooting everyone.
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I mostly hike and sometimes (most of the time) I'm miles from the car. I simply can't carry a basket of primes. \
Com'on... I used to do 5,000 feet elevation a day over 10+ miles carrying a D3x, 24mm T/S, Zeiss 100mm f2.0, 300 f2.8 VR + pano head + heaviest Gitzo carbon tripod. ;)
Now... the paste tense is important here. :D
Cheers,
Bernard
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d800 / d800e shooter
using acratec gp-s head
most useful lens so far zeiss 35 f2
most used for pannos 100 makro-planer zeiss
coolest zeiss 15mm zf.2
just ordered the new apo 135
this first image - d800e was set to max ISO - by accident - and i managed to salvage this shot... zeiss 15mm zf.2
bottom some 30+ frames - zeiss 100 makro-planer
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Have been reading a lot on the internet and there is a lot of dribble out there and would like to hear from those that use the right tools in this area of photography.
Canon 17-40mm and 16-35mm 2.8 are great lenses. I prefer the 17-40 for it's lighter weight.
Graham
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The DP2M is a mighty fine small form high image quality fixed lens (30mm f/2.8) APS-C camera. Go take a look at the DP Merrill threads.