Luminous Landscape Forum

Equipment & Techniques => Cameras, Lenses and Shooting gear => Topic started by: KLaban on February 16, 2013, 12:54:28 pm

Title: High MP Canon anytime soon?
Post by: KLaban on February 16, 2013, 12:54:28 pm
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Title: Re: High MP Canon anytime soon?
Post by: MrSmith on February 16, 2013, 01:35:12 pm
Only canon can answer that.
The revisions being made to lenses and their improved sharpness and resolving power would suggest its a when not if.
My guess would be within 2 years  ;D
Title: Re: High MP Canon anytime soon?
Post by: DaveCurtis on February 16, 2013, 02:22:45 pm
The rumor mill says 2014. But who really knows.

There is also talk of new sensor fabrication technology to come on line to improve DR and banding noise etc. Perhaps similar technology to Sony's exmor
Title: Re: High MP Canon anytime soon?
Post by: Josh-H on February 16, 2013, 04:44:19 pm
dam... thought I had logged onto DPreview when I saw this thread.....
Title: Re: High MP Canon anytime soon?
Post by: Josh-H on February 16, 2013, 05:09:29 pm
DPreview?

Somewhere you hang?

Not likely.... its full of rumour mongering.. here front page (http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3381817) didn't even have to search. Plenty of posts there to wade through for anyone so inclined in rumour...
Title: Re: High MP Canon anytime soon?
Post by: ErikKaffehr on February 16, 2013, 05:27:41 pm
Hi,

My guess is that it may take some time. Canon is said to build a new (0.18 micron fab). I guess they need better than 0.5 microns to catch Nikon.

Canon could make a higher resolution sensor any day, but it would lag Nikon/Sony sensors even more in low ISO DR than the case is now.

Best regards
Erik

Thread title says it all.

When you look into those crystal balls do you see any hope that Canon will introduce a high MP camera to rival the Nikon D800 anytime soon?
Title: Re: High MP Canon anytime soon?
Post by: hjulenissen on February 17, 2013, 04:56:55 am
Thanks to all for your prophecies.

Right, I'm off to join Josh-H on DPreview!
 
If you are so inclined, you might also like to check out the forums at www.canonrumors.com

-h
Title: Re: High MP Canon anytime soon?
Post by: stamper on February 17, 2013, 05:03:11 am
Someone said the other day that this site is not a rumours site and he didn't want it to go that way. I agree. I haven't been on Nikonians for about a year but when I last viewed it the rumours were rife about different lenses/cameras. Hopefully this site won't go that way.
Title: Re: High MP Canon anytime soon?
Post by: stamper on February 17, 2013, 05:38:49 am
Did he post this as a thread with the likelihood that the rumour would multiply out of proportion? Do you honestly think it brightens up a Sunday morning, or any morning?  ;D
Title: Re: High MP Canon anytime soon?
Post by: stamper on February 17, 2013, 06:06:24 am
Only you can answer that. The consequences of starting a rumour is that it usually multiplies out of proportion with a mixture of stirring, half truths or outright fibs. You may have had the best of intentions in mind but rumours being rumours they are rarely truthful.

http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/rumour
Title: Re: High MP Canon anytime soon?
Post by: stamper on February 17, 2013, 06:39:45 am
You are becoming a little bit obtuse now? Look at your first post and you will see the beginnings of a rumour? I think you should move on from this discussion. Others have mentioned the word rumour. I do not wish for this to get out of hand. My initial post was about this site not becoming a place for rumours. 8)

Quote

<Exactly what rumour are you accusing me of spreading?>

Unquote

Quote

<Nothing quite like a bit of rumour and prophecy to brighten up dreary Sunday.>

Unquote
Title: Re: High MP Canon anytime soon? Of course they could...
Post by: ErikKaffehr on February 17, 2013, 10:44:07 am
Hi,

Very obviously Canon could make a 46 MP camera by just upscaling the D7 sensor. I don't know why they don't.

Sony, who makes the sensor for the D800 has not released used the 36 MP sensor in the Alpha 99, for untold reasons. I guess that it has things to do with thermal noise, video capability and things like that.

Best regards
Erik

Then perhaps you should stop mentioning them.

All I did - with Michael's post in mind - was to ask for opinion on the likelihood of a new camera anytime soon.

Thanks to those who replied to my question.


Title: Re: High MP Canon anytime soon?
Post by: MrSmith on February 17, 2013, 10:52:46 am
Somebody was starting rumours in the Medium Format Pentax 645 thread. Do the modarators know about this?
 ::)
Title: Re: High MP Canon anytime soon?
Post by: Rob C on February 17, 2013, 12:42:16 pm
I love Fleetwood Mac.

Rob C
Title: Re: High MP Canon anytime soon?
Post by: John Camp on February 17, 2013, 04:34:03 pm
I love Fleetwood Mac.
Rob C

I've never been a fan of either the Fleetwood or the Mac. The Fleetwood was nearly 20 feet long and got like 10 miles per gallon, if that. The Mac is strictly for people who use computers like a toasters -- Windows is much more flexible. And Windows 8 is definitely more interesting than OSX.
Title: Re: High MP Canon anytime soon?
Post by: BernardLanguillier on February 17, 2013, 07:11:56 pm
Rumors are a fun waste of time.  ;)

Now, they are not always innocent though. Considering the significant migration of high end users to Nikon these past few years, Canon has a huge vested interest in making us believe that they are still in the race.

Their all marketing strategy has been based for years on the notion that a majority of pros use their equipment because it is the best. We all agree that Canon still releases excellent lenses and good cameras, but the gap between the marketing theory of being the best and the reality of the cameras they have released vs the competition since the D3 in 2007 is putting this communication strategy at risk. Now it is DR/resolution, it had been high ISO image quality for years before that.

So every single high end shooter deciding to stay on board with Canon another week because of the belief that something is coming soon probably results in tens of indirect sales to the general public further down the road.

LL is mostly irrelevant because it touches such a small fraction of the photographic crowds that is mostly high end anyway. But Josh is right that DPreview is infested with rumors spreaders. There is no reason to belief that some of those rumors are not driven/orchestrated by companies themselves.

In my mind, the peak of rumoring happened a few months ago when false rumors were spread that the DxOmark DR results of the Canon 1Dx were going to equal those of the Nikon D4. The actual results were very far from confirming these rumors, so there is no doubt whatsoever that someone simply invented this story. As Agatha Christie used to ask... "who does beneft from the crime?".  ;D

This is really interesting, because instead of focusing on product releases, that rumor (attack?) focused on one of the perceived root causes of the demise of Canon as a company seen as a leading sensor provider. DxOMark is of course simply exposing facts, but this is not relevant in a communication war. Facts only have impacts if they are known, so it is just as efficient to communicate falsely about the entity communicating the fact (DxOMark) as it is to communicate falsely about the facts themselves (like implying that something better is coming - which is understood by many as "we already have better technology today").

Why is it so important to win this war now? Well, because more and more photographers really are doing their last camera purchase for years to come. And the company winning the camera war hopes to also secure recurring lens revenue for years to come, with the multiplicative effect described above between pros and the mass public.

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: High MP Canon anytime soon?
Post by: ErikKaffehr on February 18, 2013, 01:24:20 am
Hi,

I don't like big cars.

Regarding operating systems, I have used IBM Mainframes, CDCs, Sun workstations, Silicon Graphics, HP, Linux and Windows since 3.0 and I would say I still prefer the Mac. But, I prefer a computer that works over one that is flexible. I have much more maintenance issues with the PC-s around me than with the three Macs I own.

Best regards
Erik

I've never been a fan of either the Fleetwood or the Mac. The Fleetwood was nearly 20 feet long and got like 10 miles per gallon, if that. The Mac is strictly for people who use computers like a toasters -- Windows is much more flexible. And Windows 8 is definitely more interesting than OSX.
Title: Re: High MP Canon anytime soon?
Post by: hjulenissen on February 18, 2013, 03:06:46 am
I have much more maintenance issues with the PC-s around me than with the three Macs I own.
For me it is the other way around. My recent mac needs frequent forced restarts, slows down to a grind at strange times and needs at least as much attention to all kinds of updates as my PCs.

-h
Title: Re: High MP Canon anytime soon?
Post by: JohnCox123 on February 18, 2013, 06:52:28 pm
Fleetwood Mac (http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=gQbtxVyj36s&feature=endscreen)?
Title: Re: High MP Canon anytime soon?
Post by: KevinA on February 19, 2013, 04:01:10 am
I've never been a fan of either the Fleetwood or the Mac. The Fleetwood was nearly 20 feet long and got like 10 miles per gallon, if that. The Mac is strictly for people who use computers like a toasters -- Windows is much more flexible. And Windows 8 is definitely more interesting than OSX.
Interesting is not a term I would apply to Windows 8, complete rubbish I think more fitting. You need to spend a lot of time finding out how to turn off all those new features just to make it useable.
At which stage in it's development did someone come up with that swipe idea and why did no one tell them it's junk?
It makes using the computer for work impossible.
Why does the main screen come with mostly links to adverts trying to get you to spend money. If I want a link to an online store, I will pick the store not Microsoft. I will pick who I travel with and which newspaper I want to read as well.
Windows 8 is a very bad joke, you do not spend time tweaking it to how you like it, you spend ages fixing/deleting the new features just so you can use it. It's turned computers into android phones. If all you want to do is tweet, Facebook and spend money it is probably the best around as a tool to work with don't go near it.
Title: Re: High MP Canon anytime soon?
Post by: KevinA on February 19, 2013, 04:07:27 am
For me it is the other way around. My recent mac needs frequent forced restarts, slows down to a grind at strange times and needs at least as much attention to all kinds of updates as my PCs.

-h
Then something needs fixing, book it in at a guru session they will test it and sort it for free.
I've Mac's and PC's, I much prefer the Macs for a lot of reasons, I have very few issues with them. A PC is like a child, whatever you ask it to do it produces a list of reasons of why not too. The Macs just do it and say "anything else I can help you with Sir".
Title: Re: High MP Canon anytime soon?
Post by: Rob C on February 19, 2013, 04:43:37 am
Now do you  see what I mean about Golden Ages?

My 'ancient' XP does exactly what I expect it to do, even if it gets very slow in the mornings, but, like its owner, after coffee break it becomes quite normal again.

I watched a lengthy programme on the BBC last night about Google and the World Library venture. What horrified me most of all was a chap with grey hair and beard who, looking meanly into camera, declared with absolute conviction that authors have no right to copyright on their ideas...

So far, authors seem to have the won the initial legal skirmishes.

What a hideous future for creatives out there; lets just buy shovels and get back to the land.

Rob C
Title: Re: High MP Canon anytime soon?
Post by: hjulenissen on February 19, 2013, 05:12:39 am
Then something needs fixing, book it in at a guru session they will test it and sort it for free.
I've Mac's and PC's, I much prefer the Macs for a lot of reasons, I have very few issues with them. A PC is like a child, whatever you ask it to do it produces a list of reasons of why not too. The Macs just do it and say "anything else I can help you with Sir".
Then something needs fixing with your PCs. Mine tend to do just what I need them to. After Windows 7 and stricter demands towards driver manufacturers, Windows has been a treat for me. To bad Microsoft did not do this 10-15 years ago when they had the chance for world domination. Now it seems that the mass consumers will go for iPads and Android boxes instead.

-h
Title: Re: High MP Canon anytime soon?
Post by: BernardLanguillier on February 19, 2013, 05:57:06 am
Then something needs fixing with your PCs. Mine tend to do just what I need them to. After Windows 7 and stricter demands towards driver manufacturers, Windows has been a treat for me. To bad Microsoft did not do this 10-15 years ago when they had the chance for world domination. Now it seems that the mass consumers will go for iPads and Android boxes instead.

MS still very much dominates the world. Besides past issues with win desktop have little to do with the potential market share they did not capture in mobile.

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: High MP Canon anytime soon?
Post by: hjulenissen on February 19, 2013, 07:20:07 am
MS still very much dominates the world.
In number of licenses, yes. In economic power they are still large. But in "mindshare", no. People largely do not want to have a PC in their home anymore. 60 year olds are using iPads to pay their bills, to surf and to watch family pictures. They are open to doing their work on something else (Photoshop jockeys excluded). Companies are letting people do their work on their own, personal computing devices. That is a big thing.
Quote
Besides past issues with win desktop have little to do with the potential market share they did not capture in mobile.

Cheers,
Bernard
What are you saying?

-h
Title: Re: High MP Canon anytime soon?
Post by: BernardLanguillier on February 19, 2013, 07:33:23 am
What are you saying?

I am saying that even if XP had been as stable/fun/productive as Win7, they would still be in the very same position in the mobile market.

Their problem was not default of quality on desktop, it was lack of investement in mobile.

Just my 2 cent.

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: High MP Canon anytime soon?
Post by: dmerger on February 19, 2013, 11:46:20 am
I watched a lengthy programme on the BBC last night about Google and the World Library venture. What horrified me most of all was a chap with grey hair and beard who, looking meanly into camera, declared with absolute conviction that authors have no right to copyright on their ideas...

So far, authors seem to have the won the initial legal skirmishes.

“Copyright does not cover ideas and information themselves, only the form or manner in which they are expressed.  …  Copyright laws are standardized somewhat through international conventions such as the Berne Convention and Universal Copyright Convention. These multilateral treaties have been ratified by nearly all countries, and international organizations such as the European Union or World Trade Organization require their member states to comply with them.”  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright#Scope

Rob, maybe you’re correct for some parts of the world (but I doubt it), but you’re wrong about copyrights in the U.S. and likely most of the world.  This concept is Copyright 101 (or even more basic if there is such a thing).  So, given your reaction, maybe that guy had reason to look so mean.   ;)
Title: Re: High MP Canon anytime soon?
Post by: Rob C on February 19, 2013, 12:15:06 pm
Rob, maybe you’re correct for some parts of the world (but I doubt it), but you’re wrong about copyrights in the U.S. and likely most of the world.  This concept is Copyright 101 (or even more basic if there is such a thing).  So, given your reaction, maybe that guy had reason to look so mean.   ;)





I'm not sure we're on the same wavelength: are you saying that an author doesn't have copyright to his plot, story and use of words?

If not, what's left to defend?

Rob C
Title: Re: High MP Canon anytime soon?
Post by: dmerger on February 19, 2013, 01:58:19 pm
I think it’s clear that we’re not on the same wavelength. :)  What I said is that copyright does not cover ideas themselves, only the form or manner in which they are expressed.  If you’re really interested, you can easily find more information, and the answer to your questions, with a quick Google search.  I don't think we need sidetrack this thread any further. If you still want to pursue a discussion about copyright of ideas, however, perhaps you can start a new thread.   
Title: Re: High MP Canon anytime soon?
Post by: MrSmith on February 19, 2013, 02:29:04 pm
A High MPixel body while a way of keeping a few pro's in the lens buying loop is hardly the arbiter of canons financial health or market share. The best seller lists are all made up of cheaper crop format bodies and the 5D III just gets in to the top ten, the d800 just outside it. I doubt there's a panic to get it to market and thus save the company.
It will be here at some point, I'll not be crying into my beige action vest if has a stop less DR or is slightly more expensive than the 'competition'
Title: Re: High MP Canon anytime soon?
Post by: MrSmith on February 19, 2013, 05:17:52 pm
Looks a bit like this:
(http://ftp.pcworld.com/pub/screencams/pibmugvest1.jpg)

Doesn't every photographer have one? ;D
Title: Re: High MP Canon anytime soon?
Post by: David Watson on February 19, 2013, 05:47:26 pm
Thread title says it all.

When you look into those crystal balls do you see any hope that Canon will introduce a high MP camera to rival the Nikon D800 anytime soon?

I am loving my D800E so who cares if Canon sort of try to catch up - well at least I don't as I have no investment in Canon glass but my Hasselblad stuff is getting kind of dusty.
Title: Re: High MP Canon anytime soon?
Post by: stamper on February 20, 2013, 04:43:34 am
Looks a bit like this:
(http://ftp.pcworld.com/pub/screencams/pibmugvest1.jpg)

Doesn't every photographer have one? ;D
;D

Ideal for street photography. You will blend in well?
Title: Re: High MP Canon anytime soon?
Post by: pwatkins on February 21, 2013, 09:07:54 pm
Hmm.  I see this sentiment from Canon users as more of a keening cry than a rumor.  At least would be if it came from me.

--Paul
Title: Re: High MP Canon anytime soon?
Post by: DanLehman on February 22, 2013, 02:25:41 pm
Quote from the owner of this site, Michael Reichmann, (September 2012).

Medium format backs and cameras used to be where one went for ultimate image quality, especially for high pixel count and wide dynamic range. But the 36 Megapixel Nikon D800 and D800e have thrown that equation into a cocked hat, and now there are rumours of a 46 Megapixel Canon later this year or early next (these rumours are likely true).

The issue of DR has been an interesting one to follow.
Here, over some 3 years [2009-02-04] prior to the above assertion
comes something sounding quite different, IMO:
Quote
[ www.luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?topic=31786.0
 Roman Johnson's OP:  "Quick Question, Michael, about D3X and P65+ DR" ]

Since you have some experience with both.
I see Thom Hogan reporting about 10 stops of usable DR in the D3X files he has worked
with on his test machine.  I see Phase One reporting 12.5 usable stops of DR with the P65+
camera you're testing....and of course the DXO numbers are what they are.

I know you're not an exhaustive tester like DXO or other sites, but in your normal use,
how would you describe the diffrences between the DR of the two cameras from a visual standpoint?

Roman

[MR replies : ]
| No, not in any objective way.  Of all the metrics DR is the hardest to quantify.
| It's very difficult to test and varies depending on a number of variables
| which I am not comfortable in quantifying.
|
| I doubt that anyone could see a noticeable difference between the two though in real world shooting.
|
  [ Yet a year later there came the infamous assertion of not only seeing
    a noticeable difference, but seeing it at ~10 paces in small prints!  :o ]
|
| At base ISO most top-end cameras now are displaying about 12 stops of DR.


 . . .  rumors & ruminations  . . .


--dl*
====