Luminous Landscape Forum

The Art of Photography => The Coffee Corner => Topic started by: dreed on February 15, 2013, 09:54:48 PM

Title: Photoshop is a city for everyone
Post by: dreed on February 15, 2013, 09:54:48 PM
http://www.theverge.com/2013/2/13/3959868/photoshop-is-a-city-for-everyone-how-adobe-endlessly-rebuilds-its

``"Computers have changed dramatically since I did Photoshop 1.0," he says. If Photoshop’s a city, Lightroom’s a clean lot, ready to be built up for today’s users.'' - Thomas Knoll
Title: Re: Photoshop is a city for everyone
Post by: Michael West on February 16, 2013, 11:01:10 PM
I still have that old Photoshop 2 Floppy Disk  stored away somewhere.

oh for a MACII to run it on.
Title: Re: Photoshop is a city for everyone
Post by: Schewe on February 17, 2013, 12:09:36 AM
Actually, if you have a G4 with 10.5, you can run Photoshop 1.0 on it....I keep an old laptop around just for that purpose so I can launch PS 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, CS, CS2, CS3, CS4 & CS5 on that machine...and CS5 & CS6 on my current laptop. I did a video of Photoshop 1.0.7 and Photoshop CS3 for Russell Brown to play at a Photoshop World in Japan (Russell didn't have the time to do it).
Title: Re: Photoshop is a city for everyone
Post by: Schewe on February 17, 2013, 12:16:50 AM
Adobe has also given the source code of Photoshop 1 to the Computer History Museum...you can download it here. You can read the original Photoshop User Guide here (http://www.computerhistory.org/collections/accession/102640940). And a Photoshop 1 tutorial here (http://www.computerhistory.org/collections/accession/102640945%20). Note, you'll need something (Pascal) to compile the PS 1 source code...
Title: Re: Photoshop is a city for everyone
Post by: Schewe on February 17, 2013, 12:18:55 AM
"If Photoshop’s a city, Lightroom’s a clean lot, ready to be built up for today’s users.'' - Thomas Knoll

It should be noted that the author got something wrong...Thomas did NOT start Lightroom, that was Mark Hamburg that was the founding engineer. In fact, Thomas wasn't really all that on board with LR...it took a while to convince Thomas that the ACR and LR code could be combined into a single processing pipeline.
Title: Re: Photoshop is a city for everyone
Post by: Eric Myrvaagnes on February 17, 2013, 09:46:07 AM
Jeff,

I think it would be fascinating if LuLa could include a segment in an upcoming video journal on the history of PS and LR, with Michael pumping you and you giving the inside info. These tidbits you dole out here and there are quite tantalizing. Thanks for doing them.

Eric M.
Title: Re: Photoshop is a city for everyone
Post by: Schewe on February 17, 2013, 03:27:05 PM
These tidbits you dole out here and there are quite tantalizing. Thanks for doing them.

Here's another tidbit...a brief history of Photoshop 1 (http://photoshopnews.com/feature-stories/photoshop-profile-thomas-john-knoll-10/). You can also read the article I did for PEI Magazine for the 10th birthday of Photoshop here (http://schewephoto.com/pei/index.html). That 10 year history ended at Photoshop 5.5 (not CS5.5 but version 5.5) So, we've come a long way since then :~)
Title: Re: Photoshop is a city for everyone
Post by: Eric Myrvaagnes on February 17, 2013, 08:26:02 PM
Thanks for those, too. I think my own adventures with PS started around version 6, certainly by 7. I may have skipped one version since then, but never more than 1. But now it's LR for 95% of what I do, largely thanks to you and Michael.
Title: Re: Photoshop is a city for everyone
Post by: Rob C on February 18, 2013, 10:36:02 AM
Actually, if you have a G4 with 10.5, you can run Photoshop 1.0 on it....I keep an old laptop around just for that purpose so I can launch PS 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, CS, CS2, CS3, CS4 & CS5 on that machine...and CS5 & CS6 on my current laptop. I did a video of Photoshop 1.0.7 and Photoshop CS3 for Russell Brown to play at a Photoshop World in Japan (Russell didn't have the time to do it).



More pertinent to my position: I use PS6 on Windows XP and worry about the time when the machine dies. As far as I can discover, the new versions of Windows won't accept PS6 because it's too ancient, and my other computer, running on Vista, certainly won't either, as I have tried out  'just in case'...

However, I seem to remember mention of something that does permit this retro-fitting of old PS6 with new Windows, but don't know if the info. was for real or just another wild, internet guess.

Is there no solution other than buying a new version of Photoshop?  As the crisis would indicate purchase of a new computer as well as Photoshop, I look at that in terms of monthly pension, and it isn't pretty!

;-)

Rob C
Title: Re: Photoshop is a city for everyone
Post by: Vladimirovich on February 18, 2013, 01:38:26 PM
It should be noted that the author got something wrong...Thomas did NOT start Lightroom, that was Mark Hamburg that was the founding engineer. In fact, Thomas wasn't really all that on board with LR...it took a while to convince Thomas that the ACR and LR code could be combined into a single processing pipeline.

victory has many fathers...
Title: Re: Photoshop is a city for everyone
Post by: Rob C on February 18, 2013, 04:35:03 PM
My guess is that question would be better posted in the Computers & Peripherals (http://www.luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?board=34.0) section.

My guess is that ancient version of Photoshop should run on newer computers with hard drives smaller than 1TB -- but PS6 would still only be able to use 2GB memory.

A new computer with a 64bit OS and lots GBs of memory seems the affordable part of the overall upgrade -- maybe the new computer would be a good time to try a one month free trial of Lightroom and see if that fits your needs.


Thanks - in the meantime I'll keep my fingers crossed!

:-)

Rob C
Title: Re: Photoshop is a city for everyone
Post by: Ed B on February 18, 2013, 07:33:30 PM


More pertinent to my position: I use PS6 on Windows XP and worry about the time when the machine dies. As far as I can discover, the new versions of Windows won't accept PS6 because it's too ancient, and my other computer, running on Vista, certainly won't either, as I have tried out  'just in case'...

However, I seem to remember mention of something that does permit this retro-fitting of old PS6 with new Windows, but don't know if the info. was for real or just another wild, internet guess.

Is there no solution other than buying a new version of Photoshop?  As the crisis would indicate purchase of a new computer as well as Photoshop, I look at that in terms of monthly pension, and it isn't pretty!

;-)

Rob C

I've run PS 7 upgraded from 5.5 on Vista and Windows 7 without any problems, I'm not sure if they would work with Win 8 though.
Title: Re: Photoshop is a city for everyone
Post by: RSL on February 19, 2013, 03:41:51 PM
Rob, if your machine dies and you have to buy a Windows 8 machine (Heaven forfend), you can run an XP emulation in Oracle's VirtualBox utility. Here's the poop: http://liliputing.com/2012/12/run-windows-xp-in-a-window-on-windows-8-without-paying-an-extra-cent.html. Thank Heaven for Oracle. Their version of Word is at least as good as Microsoft's, and same thing for their presentation tool (formerly Impress), which is as good as PowerPoint. Year before last I did a series of lectures on the history of photography and street photography using Impress. There was a computer in the hall where I made the pitches that was connected to a projector and loaded with PowerPoint. All I had to do was save the stuff out of Presentation on a DVD in PP format, and I was in business.
Title: Re: Photoshop is a city for everyone
Post by: Rob C on February 19, 2013, 04:56:53 PM
Rob, if your machine dies and you have to buy a Windows 8 machine (Heaven forfend), you can run an XP emulation in Oracle's VirtualBox utility. Here's the poop: http://liliputing.com/2012/12/run-windows-xp-in-a-window-on-windows-8-without-paying-an-extra-cent.html. Thank Heaven for Oracle. Their version of Word is at least as good as Microsoft's, and same thing for their presentation tool (formerly Impress), which is as good as PowerPoint. Year before last I did a series of lectures on the history of photography and street photography using Impress. There was a computer in the hall where I made the pitches that was connected to a projector and loaded with PowerPoint. All I had to do was save the stuff out of Presentation on a DVD in PP format, and I was in business.


Thanks Riuss - I've copied that down unto the day!

Watched a programme just now where a lady tries to rescue a family photography business. I had to give up: too painful to watch on many different levels. Thank God I gave up on working for members of the public very, very quickly!

Rob C
Title: Re: Photoshop is a city for everyone
Post by: Rhossydd on February 20, 2013, 03:32:30 AM
Is there no solution other than buying a new version of Photoshop? 
Yes, try The Gimp. This now has a better feature set than PS6 and is totally free.
Anyone who knows the basics of digital image editing shouldn't find the transition too steep. It's mainly just learning the slightly different icons.

Yes, PS CS6 has more features, but for people with more time than money almost everything can be worked round.
Title: Re: Photoshop is a city for everyone
Post by: Rob C on February 20, 2013, 04:58:26 AM
Yes, try The Gimp. This now has a better feature set than PS6 and is totally free.
Anyone who knows the basics of digital image editing shouldn't find the transition too steep. It's mainly just learning the slightly different icons.

Yes, PS CS6 has more features, but for people with more time than money almost everything can be worked round.


Gimp. I can't remember which computer, but I do remember that when long, long ago I took one in for repair, the shop installed Gimp as a goodwill gesture. I think I did use it a few times, but didn't feel that it offered very much at all, but things may be very different today.

Thanks for the suggestion - better to have alternatives available than not!

;-)

Rob C
Title: Re: Photoshop is a city for everyone
Post by: Rhossydd on February 20, 2013, 05:03:59 AM
things may be very different today.
Yes, the early versions weren't that clever, but they've improved things a lot in the last few years. Adding full colour management a year or two ago transformed it into a credible option.
Title: Re: Photoshop is a city for everyone
Post by: RSL on February 20, 2013, 09:33:43 AM
Rob, I hate to suggest it since I know it's a painful transition, but in the long run the best thing to do is buy a copy of Lightroom and learn to use it. It's far superior to early versions of Photoshop, and has everything any photographer really needs without the confusion of the bells and whistles in Photoshop for people doing things like prepress work.
Title: Re: Photoshop is a city for everyone
Post by: RSL on February 20, 2013, 02:15:55 PM
Right, Lightroom is for when Rob's current computer gives up the ghost.
Title: Re: Photoshop is a city for everyone
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on February 20, 2013, 02:31:17 PM
Damn it, Rob! Forget about PS and switch already to the only tool a photographer like you needs: Lightroom.

I keep upgrading by inertia: I processed exactly 1 (one) photograph in CS4 (at least a major photograph, and as much I can remember -- which by itself says a lot: if I can't remember, it probably either did not happen or does not really matter). I then upgraded to CS5 as Adobe threatened to shorten the generation you can upgrade from to one: I NEVER EVEN OPENED CS5, and CS6 was there. I upgraded to it and, yes, opened it, but have not processed a single major photograph in it yet. There you go: why would you have to learn from your own mistakes, when you can learn from mine?
Title: Re: Photoshop is a city for everyone
Post by: Rob C on February 20, 2013, 03:05:15 PM
Damn it, Rob! Forget about PS and switch already to the only tool a photographer like you needs: Lightroom.

I keep upgrading by inertia: I processed exactly 1 (one) photograph in CS4 (at least a major photograph, and as much I can remember -- which by itself says a lot: if I can't remember, it probably either did not happen or does not really matter). I then upgraded to CS5 as Adobe threatened to shorten the generation you can upgrade from to one: I NEVER EVEN OPENED CS5, and CS6 was there. I upgraded to it and, yes, opened it, but have not processed a single major photograph in it yet. There you go: why would you have to learn from your own mistakes, when you can learn from mine?


Hi,

I am of the belief that only Photoshop allows the use of Layers. I could be totally mistaken, and I repeat that my concern at the moment is for when the current XP machine flops onto its back, legs up in the air, but dead. Obviously, being of normal disposition, I shall simply have to walk away.

I’m not really at all in love with computers and programmes and stuff like that; I use PS6 because it does all I need or can think of needing, and as a consequence I just don’t read up on new stuff very often, so perhaps there are other systems out there that do Layers etc. but I also know that I’m a pretty slow learner at things such as Photoshop and learning curves aren’t things I approach with love. Were there courses available where I could see what's being done and ask questions in real time, it would be a different matter. Basically, that’s why I was so in love with the film version of photography: I found it extremely easy to bend to my needs and it just didn’t cause me any anxiety at all, which digital usually has with each new phase.

However, something that Isaac has just written offers a novel prospect: my other computer, this one on which I do my Internet travels, is Vista, so if the worst comes to the worst, it could move sideways across the bench…  

Thanks for you collective concerns, anyhow; I realise that I must be quite a technically frustrating prospect at times, but that’s the nature of the lad. I use ‘lad’ in a tongue-in-cheek way, as you no doubt guessed.

;-)

Rob C



Title: Re: Photoshop is a city for everyone
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on February 20, 2013, 05:29:52 PM
Just to clarify: for your type of photography, and frankly, for 95% of photographs, layers are not necessary. In Lightroom, there are several other options that achieve practically the same result.
Title: Re: Photoshop is a city for everyone
Post by: Eric Myrvaagnes on February 20, 2013, 09:22:41 PM
Just to clarify: for your type of photography, and frankly, for 95% of photographs, layers are not necessary. In Lightroom, there are several other options that achieve practically the same result.
SB said it more genteely than I was about to. I was going to say, "We don't need no stinkin' layers!!!"  :)

Eric
Title: Re: Photoshop is a city for everyone
Post by: tom b on February 20, 2013, 09:52:18 PM
I've been using Photoshop since 1997 (Version 3) in my job as an illustrator. Yes we need layers and you can do great things with them. Although it is called photoshop it is more of a tool for graphic artists and illustrators. I worked alongside David Stanley whose website Whimsical Wood (http://whimsicalwood.com/index.html) is a testament to the statement 'Photoshop is a city for everyone'. If you are using Photoshop just for photography you are only using a fraction of what it is capable of in the right hands.

Cheers,
Title: Re: Photoshop is a city for everyone
Post by: Rhossydd on February 21, 2013, 03:24:35 AM
I am of the belief that only Photoshop allows the use of Layers. I could be totally mistaken,
You are. Most modern image editors have layer options.

Why you make such silly, ill informed comments when you've spent so much time here beats me. It's not clever to pretend to live in the past.
Title: Re: Photoshop is a city for everyone
Post by: Rob C on February 21, 2013, 04:38:07 AM
You are. Most modern image editors have layer options.

Why you make such silly, ill informed comments when you've spent so much time here beats me. It's not clever to pretend to live in the past.



I ask you the same question. My comment is real, and a true representation of my interest in computers and allied games. I am not interested in the latest and greatest toys; you should be able to accept that some people do actually prefer to think about images rather than programmes.

Frankly, I find your post gratuitously hurtful.

Thanks for nothing.

Rob C
Title: Re: Photoshop is a city for everyone
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on February 21, 2013, 11:34:44 AM
You are. Most modern image editors have layer options.

Why you make such silly, ill informed comments when you've spent so much time here beats me. It's not clever to pretend to live in the past.

Now you really got me mad. If I have a natural predisposition to anything, it would be against stupidity.

There was nothing wrong in Rob's reply. He replied in the context of my question. The question which mentioned ONLY TWO PRODUCTS in this world: PS and LR. In that context, between those two products, it is absolutely correct to state that only PS has layers.

Why you make such silly, ill informed comments when your mother tongue is English beats me. But then again, English doesn't come with Logic 101, does it now?

 ??? ??? ???
Title: Re: Photoshop is a city for everyone
Post by: Rob C on February 22, 2013, 02:02:37 PM
Now that's touché, I think!

Also shows that one can sometimes be right, even when from a position of simply knowing no better...

;-)

Rob C
Title: Re: Photoshop is a city for everyone
Post by: Dave (Isle of Skye) on March 09, 2013, 07:22:13 PM
Now that's touché, I think!

Also shows that one can sometimes be right, even when from a position of simply knowing no better...

;-)

Rob C

Rob,

Adobe used to give away older but fully working versions of PS on magazine front cover disks, at least up to PS7 back in 1999 if I remember correctly. I am also fairly sure that PS7 will run on Vista and there must be sites out there that still have copies of these legitamely free versions you can access.

Dave
Title: Re: Photoshop is a city for everyone
Post by: Rob C on March 10, 2013, 06:11:55 AM
Rob,

Adobe used to give away older but fully working versions of PS on magazine front cover disks, at least up to PS7 back in 1999 if I remember correctly. I am also fairly sure that PS7 will run on Vista and there must be sites out there that still have copies of these legitamely free versions you can access.

Dave


Hi Dave,

Now that's a thunderbolt! I never imagined Adobe would be doing anything like that - maybe they understood before the rest of us that licensing updates would turn out to be very lucrative, especially as the price of buying into a totally new PS from scratch would be so high. I say 'so high' but that's from the point of view of a retired person with dwindling resources about to dwindle even further as the pound plummets against the lousy Euro! I find that incredible: 24% unemployment in mainland Spain, and over 60% every winter on the Balearics... families living off soup kitchens, many cases of suicide because of mortgage default and eviction... Italy with no government that isn't either part of the mafia or of the looney left; Greece so sick it's already a forgotten basket case with Portugal helping carry the basket, but it's the quid that dives!

Oh well - c'est la vie, as I find myself having to say so often these days!

Ciao -

Rob C
Title: Re: Photoshop is a city for everyone
Post by: Rhossydd on March 10, 2013, 09:21:32 AM
Adobe used to give away older but fully working versions of PS on magazine front cover disks, at least up to PS7 back in 1999 if I remember correctly.
I'm sure you're wrong.
I've never seen a fully working version of Photoshop on any magazine cover disk in the UK.
They possibly put the trial versions on for a while back around PS 5/6/7.
They also bundled(so not really free) Photoshop LE, a cut down version of PS3, with various products in the late 90s too. This was the precursor to PS Elements and for a long time was a slightly cheaper upgrade route to a full version.

The closest thing to a "free version of Photoshop" being offered anywhere has been the recent chaos of openly publishing serial numbers for CS2. This was down to the Adobe shutting down the authentication servers for CS2 leaving CS2 licence holders unable to use new installations of that version, so a serial number that works without authentication was released. Some people took that to mean CS2 was being released for free, which promptly went viral on the net, but it's only meant for existing licence holders.
Title: Re: Photoshop is a city for everyone
Post by: Dave (Isle of Skye) on March 14, 2013, 06:23:31 PM
I'm sure you're wrong.
I've never seen a fully working version of Photoshop on any magazine cover disk in the UK.
They possibly put the trial versions on for a while back around PS 5/6/7.
They also bundled(so not really free) Photoshop LE, a cut down version of PS3, with various products in the late 90s too. This was the precursor to PS Elements and for a long time was a slightly cheaper upgrade route to a full version.

The closest thing to a "free version of Photoshop" being offered anywhere has been the recent chaos of openly publishing serial numbers for CS2. This was down to the Adobe shutting down the authentication servers for CS2 leaving CS2 licence holders unable to use new installations of that version, so a serial number that works without authentication was released. Some people took that to mean CS2 was being released for free, which promptly went viral on the net, but it's only meant for existing licence holders.

I can only tell it as I remember it, but maybe you are right and perhaps it was an earlier version than PS7 I am referring to, but I do definitely remember there was a magazine front cover disk freebie. It probably also needed internet authentication etc, but it was a fully working version of Photoshop.

Dave