Luminous Landscape Forum

Equipment & Techniques => Cameras, Lenses and Shooting gear => Topic started by: brandtb on February 08, 2013, 09:12:13 am

Title: Pano Rig Component Set Recommendations
Post by: brandtb on February 08, 2013, 09:12:13 am
I would like to get some recommendations on complete pano rig components/component set for use with a D800 body and Nik. 24-70 lens OR similar (will most likely be using with leveling tripod) for single or multi-row. One important criteria is that it is very quick/easy to use in the field/bad outdoor terrain etc.. I like the concept of of "click detent" as well as I've seen on some of the "rotators". Note - I don't need just the manufact. name - I'm interested in all the specific components/component set that one is currently using.  Thanks much for the help
Title: Re: Pano Rig Component Set Recommendations
Post by: Bart_van_der_Wolf on February 08, 2013, 10:27:57 am
I would like to get some recommendations on complete pano rig components/component set for use with a D800 body and Nik. 24-70 lens OR similar (will most likely be using with leveling tripod) for single or multi-row. One important criteria is that it is very quick/easy to use in the field/bad outdoor terrain etc.. This would possible be used for I like the concept of of "click detent" as well as I've seen on some of the "rotators". Note - I don't need just the manufact. name - I'm interested in all the specific components/component set that one is currently using.  Thanks much for the help

Hi Brandt,

After a lot of experimentation, and with portability, stability, flexibility, and ease of setup in mind, I've settled for the following myself:

Item 2 can be skipped if the tripod has a leveling base already. Items 2 and 3 can be swapped for the Really Right Stuff BH-55 PCL: Full-sized ballhead with Panning Clamp, when the quick precision positioning and repeatable horizontal intervals are not required. When the tripod already has a leveling base and repeatable intervals are not necessary, item 3 can be replaced by a Really Right Stuff PCL-1: Panning Clamp (without clickstops) which can also be mounted directly on the leveling plate.

Start planning for the required budget ...

Cheers,
Bart
Title: Re: Pano Rig Component Set Recommendations
Post by: Ellis Vener on February 08, 2013, 11:05:25 am
Really Right Stuff PG-02 Pro Omni-Pivot Package: http://reallyrightstuff.com/ProductDesc.aspx?code=PG-02-Pro-OPP&type=3&eq=&desc=PG-02-Pro-Omni-Pivot-Package&key=it

Very fast to configure the way you want although it helps to  either mark,have notes about, or memorize  the nodal slide and lateral centering positions for your specific lens and camera combination.  I used this for camera lens packages from large and heavy (1Ds Mark III +  70-200mm f/2.8L)  down to moderate (D800 and 50mm f/1.8 AI-S).

Other attributes:
- very robust.
- easy to keep clean.
- modular, so you can use only the components you need (like just the  PCL-1 clamp)
- versatile, individually or combined the components can be used for non-panoramic work. In my case that is macros, some portraits, and studio work.
- precise.

The weak point (for my usage) is the PCL-1 - I have work one out -  but no one makes a better alternative. Supposedly, RRS has prototyped a heavier duty replacement but they have been saying that for at least a year.

Edit: for taller cameras like the EOS 1Ds and D3X I use the CB-18 camera bar instead of the CB-10 that is included in the PG-02 Pro Omni-Pivot Package. It is nice to have the longer length
Title: Re: Pano Rig Component Set Recommendations
Post by: Craig Lamson on February 08, 2013, 11:31:23 am
I use the Manfrotto 303sph and the leveling base.  I shoot hundreds of close quarters vr's each year this is a rock solid setup.
Title: Re: Pano Rig Component Set Recommendations
Post by: brandtb on February 08, 2013, 02:10:48 pm
thanks all for feedback...appreciated!
Title: Re: Pano Rig Component Set Recommendations
Post by: OldRoy on February 08, 2013, 05:29:20 pm
I'm still waiting for someone to explain why you need a levelling base when you're going to be stitching.
Roy
Title: Re: Pano Rig Component Set Recommendations
Post by: Bart_van_der_Wolf on February 08, 2013, 07:56:09 pm
I'm still waiting for someone to explain why you need a levelling base when you're going to be stitching.

Hi Roy,

To minimize cropping on wide landscape/cityscape panos.

Cheers,
Bart
Title: Re: Pano Rig Component Set Recommendations
Post by: theguywitha645d on February 08, 2013, 08:54:09 pm
My most used setup is simply handheld.

The next is a Manfrotto Corbone One tripod with an Arca Swiss P0 head and Manfrotto macro rail as a nodal slide.
Title: Re: Pano Rig Component Set Recommendations
Post by: OldRoy on February 09, 2013, 06:16:37 am
Hi Roy,

To minimize cropping on wide landscape/cityscape panos.

Cheers,
Bart
Thanks Bart, but... cropping is, er, difficult?
I've found that if you shoot slightly wider you give yourself the option to crop. Adding unintentionally un-shot portions of the scene is somewhat more problematic.
Roy
Title: Re: Pano Rig Component Set Recommendations
Post by: Bart_van_der_Wolf on February 09, 2013, 08:46:29 am
Thanks Bart, but... cropping is, er, difficult?

Hi Roy,

No, not difficult, but why crop (=waste) pixels that could otherwise be used?

Quote
I've found that if you shoot slightly wider you give yourself the option to crop.

Shooting wider to crop later is an option but, it will take longer to process due to having more tiles, or reduce resolution if a wider angle lens is used. More tiles may not be available in a single row pano.

Cheers,
Bart
Title: Re: Pano Rig Component Set Recommendations
Post by: Alan Smallbone on February 09, 2013, 10:47:14 am
I use a setup similar to Ellis's. The RRS stuff is really great and rock solid.

Alan
Title: Re: Pano Rig Component Set Recommendations
Post by: muntanela on February 09, 2013, 05:19:51 pm
My most used setup is simply handheld.

The next is a Manfrotto Corbone One tripod with an Arca Swiss P0 head and Manfrotto macro rail as a nodal slide.

You need a L-bracket too if the camera is in portrait mode.
Title: Re: Pano Rig Component Set Recommendations
Post by: theguywitha645d on February 09, 2013, 05:45:09 pm
You need a L-bracket too if the camera is in portrait mode.

Personally, I don't as the 645D has two tripod sockets, but for a D800, you would if you wanted to do that. But a pano setup just has a built-in L bracket. But I consider what I have is one of the smallest and lightest solutions
Title: Re: Pano Rig Component Set Recommendations
Post by: BrianWJH on February 09, 2013, 06:49:09 pm
But I consider what I have is one of the smallest and lightest solutions

Is it still capable of doing multi-row with that setup?
Title: Re: Pano Rig Component Set Recommendations
Post by: theguywitha645d on February 09, 2013, 11:30:17 pm
Is it still capable of doing multi-row with that setup?

Easy for single row, trickier for multi, but I prefer simple, light gear and I willing to put up with more work. I also don't find panos that hard and am willing to even shoot them handheld (I have a gridded screen in my viewfinder which helps with that). Others like the feeling of precision you can get from more complex setups. I need to cary my gear all day in all kinds of conditions and through all kind of terrain (and still have the energy to use it). I really only use a nodal slide when I have complex scenes with foreground and background objects like in the middle of a forest.
Title: Re: Pano Rig Component Set Recommendations
Post by: bill t. on February 10, 2013, 01:10:31 am
Just call me a curmudgeon or an inverse gearhead snob, or whatever you like.

This is my faithful panohead of the last 8 years.  Home Depot technology at it's best, using bolts originally designed to hold together horse-drawn carriages.  Oak is the poor-man's aluminum, and has served me well on numerous devices that were quite sophisticated in function if not in appearance.

The pano head builds up from an ebay Gitzo G1270 head, which has the virtue of tilting sideways and being otherwise very rigid.  There are many other possible candidates, all of them unlovely enough to be had for a song at auction. The long camera bolt slot on the G1270 serves to support two long carriage bolts that prevent the vertical beam from rotating. Highly stable in winds up to about 40 mph.  Superb damping characteristics.  The long lever that would normally have tilted the camera now serves as a sort of rough approximation nodal point adjuster, working hand in hand with a series to pre-drilled holes on the piece of oak supporting the camera.  Note the Photoshop-created paper bands just under the Gitzo head, it's just a matter of positioning the band appropriate to the lens in use to its friction-fit near the base of the Gitzo pan axis.

I eschew sophisticated leveling devices for a tripod with easily adjustable legs, where the highest adjustment nuts are within easy reach, and which is well maintained for smooth operation.  15 minutes of practice, and who needs a leveler?  A basic problem with a simple solution not requiring additional hardware.  A simple magic marker dot on the existing Gitzo bubble level shows me where the true bubble center is, which is of course slightly away from the old factory markings.  Better to spend the weight of a leveler on an extra-rigid camera support.

Anyway, I am uncommonly pleased by ad hoc devices of this type, perhaps because of the way they allow design and engineering to leapfrog the quagmire of sophisticated fabrication and it's attendant stylistic diseases.  How's that for spin doctoring?
Title: Re: Pano Rig Component Set Recommendations
Post by: K.C. on February 10, 2013, 05:53:05 am
Anyway, I am uncommonly pleased by ad hoc devices of this type, perhaps because of the way they allow design and engineering to leapfrog the quagmire of sophisticated fabrication and it's attendant stylistic diseases.  How's that for spin doctoring?

If your design and build quality are as good as your spin doctoring you're good to go!

But I do have to say that once you're used a leveling base you'll never want to work without one. I can setup and shoot with confidence quickly and efficiently.
Title: Re: Pano Rig Component Set Recommendations
Post by: OldRoy on February 10, 2013, 06:23:36 am
If your design and build quality are as good as your spin doctoring you're good to go!

But I do have to say that once you're used a leveling base you'll never want to work without one. I can setup and shoot with confidence quickly and efficiently.
I beg to differ. When I first started stitching I bought a Manfrotto levelling plate  (admittedly not the most convenient example of the type). I used it a couple of times before I realised it was an unnecessary additional  weight to carry and have never subsequently encountered a situation where I wished I'd had it with me.
What I do miss, from the days when I shot moving images, where levelling is vital, is the standard levelling bowl tripod/head arrangement found on all video/film legs; it makes for very rapid adjustment compared to altering leg settings - albeit at a weight penalty.
Roy
Title: Re: Pano Rig Component Set Recommendations
Post by: K.C. on February 11, 2013, 03:58:59 am
What I do miss, from the days when I shot moving images, where levelling is vital, is the standard levelling bowl tripod/head arrangement found on all video/film legs; it makes for very rapid adjustment compared to altering leg settings - albeit at a weight penalty.
Roy

Well I guess it's just a matter of terminology because what you're describing is exactly what I'm using and Gitzo calls it a leveling base (http://www.gitzo.co.uk/series-3-4-5-systematic-leveling-base). So that's what I called it.
Title: Re: Pano Rig Component Set Recommendations
Post by: NancyP on February 11, 2013, 04:21:59 pm
Nothing wrong with the do-it-yourself approach. The advantage of a nodal rail with markings is that it can be used with different lenses. The advantage of a nodal rail with just a single hole for your camera is pure simplicity, excellent if you use only one lens/camera combo.

I am looking into making a do-it-yourself barndoor equatorial mount for wide-field astrophotography. Plenty of plans out there. If I can get the two wooden flaps cut elsewhere, I should be golden (I don't own a band saw, and the one I have access to, well, yech.) . I last made stuff when I was a teenager, and have lost most of the handy implements.
Title: Re: Pano Rig Component Set Recommendations
Post by: bill t. on February 11, 2013, 06:02:26 pm
The advantage of a nodal rail with just a single hole for your camera is pure simplicity, excellent if you use only one lens/camera combo.

Nancy, you underestimate my design!   :)

Notice the sophisticated series of precision holes, allowing a multiplicity of camera locations to accommodate a wide variety of lenses.  That and a little nudging and shifting with the re-purposed tripod movements and I'm home free in the mis-named nodal department.

All you need to make those barndoors is a screwdriver, drill, a bottle o'Titebond Glue, and that most wonderful of all woodworking ever devised...the Japanese Saw!  Hint...you pull it towards you to make the cut.  Other than that, while the hardware sections down at Lowes and Home Depot are now a pale shadow of what they used to be, all the parts you need for a barndoor tracker are there and shouldn't add up to more than about 5 bucks.  Be courageous!
Title: Re: Pano Rig Component Set Recommendations
Post by: FredBGG on February 12, 2013, 03:57:50 am
(http://www.gigapan.com/images/store_pro_main.jpg)

GigaPan EPIC Pro

Set top left and bottom right and the motorized head does the rest. Also allows for HDR bracketting
Title: BillT's DIY
Post by: NancyP on February 12, 2013, 03:39:56 pm
Hmm. Japanese saws - not familiar with them. Are these the ones you mean? I take it that they do straight cuts only.
http://americanwoodworker.com/blogs/tools/archive/2008/09/01/Japanese-Dozuki-Saws.aspx
 I will have to give it a try. I love Japanese tools in general.

I didn't intend to diss your DIY pano rig, simple is a great thing.  I didn't see the multiple holes. It is still pleasantly simple. No peering at tiny markings, just stick the camera/lens combo on the correct hole.

The barn door tracker I am thinking about making has a high torque motor driving geared nut along a curved screw as shown in the following article, but maybe I will just stick with the crank-it-yourself model for now.
http://www.dpreview.com/articles/2705562354/building-using-a-tracking-mount-for-astrophotography
Title: Re: Pano Rig Component Set Recommendations
Post by: theguywitha645d on February 12, 2013, 11:21:49 pm
+1 on the Japanese saw, but I prefer the ones without the spine on the back. They are pull saws and so if you are doing the stoke properly, it can only be straight. They make a very narrow kerf.
Title: Re: Pano Rig Component Set Recommendations
Post by: bill t. on February 12, 2013, 11:53:49 pm
Well that's a pretty sophisticated barn door tracker.  I was thinking something more along these lines, which is towards the down and dirty side of the many variations you can find on the web...

http://www.astropix.com/BGDA/SAMPLE2/SAMPLE2.HTM

It's the sort that will get you up into the 5 or so minute total exposures needed for relatively clean skies.  The trick to astrophotography of this type is that you are best off taking a large number of sequential exposures, then "stacking" them in PS or one of many image averaging programs available.  "Stacking" averages several different exposures.  It has the advantage of removing a lot of the noise that creeps into long exposure digital photos. And you can just throw away exposures with unexpected airplane trails.  It also means that you can advance the crank on the barn doors only between say 15 or 30 second exposures if you want, which might be good if your setup is kind of wobbly.  But technically it would be best to slowly creep the crank it you can.  Don't want to make it sound too easy, the success or failure of hand advanced barn doors has a lot to do with getting the distance from the hinge to the screw just right relative to the the screw pitch so the rate of rotation of the screw has some sane relationship to a clock's second hand.

FWIW, I just looked on my local Craigslist.com and found a small telescope with a motor driven equatorial mount for very cheap.  That would probably be a good way to go as well, just somehow attach the camera to the mount and away you go.  And for about $380 you can buy a brand new Celestron CG-4 equatorial mount with the optional motor drive.  Had one a long time ago.  It was a beautifully made unit that could run unattended for hours with tracking good enough for a normal focal length lens, once you got it tweaked in on the rate control.

If I could spare gobs of time I'd be out there shooting stars beginning when the gorgeous summer Milky Way gets high in the sky at reasonable hours starting about mid July.  What a sight!  In a truly dark sky location is just takes your breath away.

And the Japanese saws they sell at Lowes for about $15 are all you would need, although you can spend a lot more.  Really any saw will do, but the Japanese saws make really clean cuts that don't need much finishing.
Title: Re: woodworking and barn door tracker
Post by: NancyP on February 13, 2013, 01:41:52 pm
Yep, there are several plain tracker plans out there, and I will try these hand-cranked versions first. Advantage: cheap! Wood, piano hinge, bolt and nuts, polar "sighter" / guesstimator (straw laid along hinge). My first need is to get a software or firmware intervalometer, so I can sit inside the warm car...... froze my fingers and toes (not frostbite, just cooooold) Monday to get a series. Remote options include iShutter vs. the more complicated but free Magic Lantern firmware. Now to decipher the stacking software.
Title: Re: woodworking and barn door tracker
Post by: Ellis Vener on February 13, 2013, 02:09:08 pm
Yep, there are several plain tracker plans out there, and I will try these hand-cranked versions first. Advantage: cheap! Wood, piano hinge, bolt and nuts, polar "sighter" / guesstimator (straw laid along hinge). My first need is to get a software or firmware intervalometer, so I can sit inside the warm car...... froze my fingers and toes (not frostbite, just cooooold) Monday to get a series. Remote options include iShutter vs. the more complicated but free Magic Lantern firmware. Now to decipher the stacking software.

Also look at the CamRanger http://www.camranger.com
Title: "Astrotrac" 1 kg equatorial mount; thanks, Elliott, for intervalometer info
Post by: NancyP on February 13, 2013, 06:08:54 pm
http://www.astrotrac.com/Default.aspx?p=tt320x-ag
This little beauty will be mine if I get really serious about astro-landscapes and star field photos, but it is a bit expensive for a beginner. It is the talk of the DSLR astrophotography fora, at ~$650.00 including polar sighting scope. There's a cheaper and lighter/smaller small-format commercial equatorial mount, Vixen Polarie, at approximately $450.00 including polar sighting scope. People tend to mount these on heavy tripods with Manfrotto 410 geared head, and add their own ball head to the top of the mount.

Another local 60D user, a pro who teaches a popular Lightroom class and other post-processing workshops, swears by Magic Lantern for intervalometer and for extended exposure bracketing. Canon 60D allows you exactly 3 exposures per bracketing. I try not to take on learning too many programs at once. ;)
Title: Re: Pano Rig Component Set Recommendations
Post by: theguywitha645d on February 13, 2013, 08:11:57 pm
The AstroTrac is a great mount--I had one. I traded it in for one of these:

http://www.vixenoptics.com/mounts/polarie.html

This is a similar tracker and a good price:

http://www.ioptron.com/index.cfm?select=productdetails&phid=6fffc3fe-5b3c-4489-9b45-e6f6fd972a55

This is a very nice mount:

http://www.toast-tech.com/en/features.html

And to round this off, you need something from Takahashi:

http://www.buytelescopes.com/Products/1733-takahashi-teegul-sky-patrol-iii-mount.aspx
Title: Re: All those equatorial mounts
Post by: NancyP on February 14, 2013, 03:56:51 pm
guywitha645d, Why did you settle on the Polarie vs the Astrotrac or one of the others mentioned? What maximum weight and focal length do you use? Have you used tripod footed telephotos on the EqMs?

I am going to build a hand-cranked one for a few bux, before committing to More Gear.
Title: Re: Pano Rig Component Set Recommendations
Post by: theguywitha645d on February 14, 2013, 05:58:16 pm
I wanted the smallest, most portable package. The AstroTrac is portable, but still a bit too much for me. The max payload on the Polarie is 4KG which can carry just about any camera. I have the polar scope for the Polarie which should allow me to use my 645D with focal length up to 120mm--I am not sure the 300mm will ride nicely, mostly do to the size. But the Polarie is new to me and I have not had any really good chance to put it through its paces. The AstroTrac is a fine mount and can handle a much larger load.
Title: Re: Pano Rig Component Set Recommendations
Post by: epatsellis on February 17, 2013, 12:27:56 am
I'm pretty partial to my Gigapan Pro. When you get to multi row/ multi column stitches, it just works. Mounted on top of a set of Lisand video sticks, with a 100mm ball, leveling is trivial and doesn't add to the height of the tripod.

With the proper post capture workflow, shooting raw and processing with either Microsoft ICE for smaller stitches, or Autopano Gigapan for larger, the entire process is painless. I've shot 300 image stitches that automagically went together with little fuss.
Title: Re: Pano Rig Component Set Recommendations
Post by: jgbowerman on February 18, 2013, 10:46:49 am
My preference is a tilt/shift lens with a built-in tripod clamp. In the field, it is very fast and in PP, there is almost zero loss of information. Granted, I am limited to stitching three images... right shift, left, and center.