Luminous Landscape Forum

Equipment & Techniques => Cameras, Lenses and Shooting gear => Topic started by: BernardLanguillier on January 29, 2013, 01:36:37 am

Title: Nikon 800mm f5.6 announced...
Post by: BernardLanguillier on January 29, 2013, 01:36:37 am
http://imaging.nikon.com/lineup/lens/singlefocal/Telephoto/af-s_800mmf_56g_fl_ed_vr/

I guess that, at that price point, I'll buy a car instead... but image quality should be OK judging from the computed MTF chart (it seems totally amazing in fact).

Now... the tele-converter comes for free... so it may be a good deal after all.  ???

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: Nikon 800mm f5.6 announced...
Post by: Brian Hirschfeld on January 29, 2013, 11:24:38 am
Thats surprising for a 35mm lens, but for any lens in general really....I guess when you have a D800e with 36.3 megapixels you need to start producing even better glass...which costs more....

My answer, buy a MFDB and Crop! Crop! Crop! (Just kidding)

http://brianhirschfeldphotography.com/category/hasselblad/hasselblad-lenses/
If you look at the first example, the Lizard, which I bring up a lot because I think that it illustrates what is great about medium format and the things its capable of....the final 40x24inch image was a 275% crop of the original image which was 60mp, I believe I am allowed to do this math but a 300mm*2.75 = 825mm lens .... so bam, medium format 825mm lens which is a stop or so faster then this 17k monster!

^^^I jest a little bit, but still^^^
Title: Re: Nikon 800mm f5.6 announced...
Post by: NancyP on January 29, 2013, 03:28:26 pm
Nikon $17,900.00 vs Canon $13,250.00 vs. Sigma $7,600.00
All of these are individually way more valuable than my 16 year old car. Eight of my cars equals one Nikon or Canon 800mm lens? Add a Nikon to part of a Sigma, and there's the current "new" price for my brand and model car.
Any way you look at it, if you want 800 mm and auto-focus and high IQ, you are going to pay. On the other hand, if you just want to have an 800mm lens, you could go for one of the RoBoSamyang 800mm mirror lenses for a mere $180.00 (if you don't mind "Donut" bokeh), or one of their pretty primitive T mount refractors for a similar price. I have used the T mount refractor, and you could get $180.00 worth of fun out of it.
Title: Re: Nikon 800mm f5.6 announced...
Post by: ErikKaffehr on January 29, 2013, 03:56:09 pm
Hi,

I have a 400 mm wich I use with a 1.4x or 2x extender. Not like Nikon, Canon or the Sigmonster, but I make pictures with it.

Best regards
Erik

Nikon $17,900.00 vs Canon $13,250.00 vs. Sigma $7,600.00
All of these are individually way more valuable than my 16 year old car. Eight of my cars equals one Nikon or Canon 800mm lens? Add a Nikon to part of a Sigma, and there's the current "new" price for my brand and model car.
Any way you look at it, if you want 800 mm and auto-focus and high IQ, you are going to pay. On the other hand, if you just want to have an 800mm lens, you could go for one of the RoBoSamyang 800mm mirror lenses for a mere $180.00 (if you don't mind "Donut" bokeh), or one of their pretty primitive T mount refractors for a similar price. I have used the T mount refractor, and you could get $180.00 worth of fun out of it.
Title: Re: Nikon 800mm f5.6 announced...
Post by: joneil on January 29, 2013, 06:24:43 pm
     Considering that astronomy has been an interest of mine for just a long as photography has been, for that kind of money, I could go out and get a top of a line APO refractor with field flattener, all camera attachments needed, and a top of the line EQ mount, and still have some $$$ left over.
     So yeah, even if I win the lottery this weekend, don't think it's gonna happen too fast.
:D
Title: Re: Nikon 800mm f5.6 announced...
Post by: tom b on January 29, 2013, 06:44:55 pm
Not so expensive… Canon 1200mm f/5.6 Super Telephoto Lens For Just $120,000 (http://www.inthemix.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=249647).

I remember seeing what looked to be a photographer with a ~900mm Nikon lens on a monopod. I thought he was getting shots of American warships at Garden Island, Sydney. When I got up level with him it became all too obvious. His camera was aimed at Russel Crowe's apartment.

Cheers,
Title: Re: Nikon 800mm f5.6 announced...
Post by: risedal on January 29, 2013, 10:07:28 pm
http://imaging.nikon.com/lineup/lens/singlefocal/Telephoto/af-s_800mmf_56g_fl_ed_vr/

I guess that, at that price point, I'll buy a car instead... but image quality should be OK judging from the computed MTF chart (it seems totally amazing in fact).

Now... the tele-converter comes for free... so it may be a good deal after all.  ???

Cheers,
Bernard


I think the street price will be much lower
Title: Re: Nikon 800mm f5.6 announced...
Post by: BernardLanguillier on January 29, 2013, 10:18:10 pm

I think the street price will be much lower

Really?

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/918849-REG/nikon_2205_af_s_nikkor_800mm_f_5_6e.html

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: Nikon 800mm f5.6 announced...
Post by: risedal on January 30, 2013, 08:28:58 am
It is the  Introductions price, we'll see how the market  reacts  after some time.
Title: Re: Nikon 800mm f5.6 announced...
Post by: Derry on January 30, 2013, 01:41:20 pm
no need for this length and the DW would not allow regardless of what I wanted it for,,

Derry
Title: Re: Nikon 800mm f5.6 announced...
Post by: Fine_Art on January 30, 2013, 01:50:26 pm
Nikon $17,900.00 vs Canon $13,250.00 vs. Sigma $7,600.00
All of these are individually way more valuable than my 16 year old car. Eight of my cars equals one Nikon or Canon 800mm lens? Add a Nikon to part of a Sigma, and there's the current "new" price for my brand and model car.
Any way you look at it, if you want 800 mm and auto-focus and high IQ, you are going to pay. On the other hand, if you just want to have an 800mm lens, you could go for one of the RoBoSamyang 800mm mirror lenses for a mere $180.00 (if you don't mind "Donut" bokeh), or one of their pretty primitive T mount refractors for a similar price. I have used the T mount refractor, and you could get $180.00 worth of fun out of it.

Here is a 900mm for $1459 at f9
http://ca.skywatcher.com/_english/01_products/02_detail.php?sid=364 (http://ca.skywatcher.com/_english/01_products/02_detail.php?sid=364)

Here is a 900mm for$1799 at f7.5 A real APO triplet.
http://ca.skywatcher.com/_english/01_products/02_detail.php?sid=348 (http://ca.skywatcher.com/_english/01_products/02_detail.php?sid=348)
Title: Re: Nikon 800mm f5.6 announced...
Post by: BernardLanguillier on January 30, 2013, 03:24:18 pm
no need for this length and the DW would not allow regardless of what I wanted it for,,

DW AI
Title: Re: Nikon 800mm f5.6 announced...
Post by: BJL on January 30, 2013, 06:22:33 pm
Those far slower, non auto-focus telescopes with far more limited close focusing abilities are hardly comparable, but what I find strange about the Canon and Nikon 800mm, f/5.6 lenses is how much more they cost than the 700mm and 840mm f/5.6 alternatives that Canon amd Nikon already offer: pairing their 500/4 and 600/4 lenses with a 1.4x TC.

After all, any true telephoto lens, meaning one that is physically less long than its focal length, already effectively consists of a shorter lens of proportionately shorter aperture ratio (same effective aperture diameter) with a matched TC permanently attached behind it, the so-called "telephoto group" of lens elements: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telephoto_lens
Title: Re: Nikon 800mm f5.6 announced...
Post by: NancyP on January 30, 2013, 07:33:29 pm
FWIW, Art Morris of Birds As Art blog has switched from the Canon 800mm f/5.6 to the Canon 600mm F/4 plus 1.4x TC III (840mm). More flexibility, similar performance.

There's an Italian amateur photographer who wrote an article in Nature Photographer about shooting birds manual focus with refractor telescopes. Manual focus of BIF with perhaps ergonomically not-ideal controls = hard!

A few people have figured out how to attach certain Canon FD lenses to EF mounts. You too could have a vintage manual focus Big White for under $3,000.00. That would be the talk of the town at the school football or soccer meets.
Title: Re: Nikon 800mm f5.6 announced...
Post by: jonathanlung on January 30, 2013, 11:07:42 pm
Not so expensive… Canon 1200mm f/5.6 Super Telephoto Lens For Just $120,000 (http://www.inthemix.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=249647).

You're right! That's a bargain at $100/mm compared to about $150/mm for the 14mm!  ;D It pays to buy in bulk.
Title: Re: Nikon 800mm f5.6 announced...
Post by: telyt on January 31, 2013, 12:38:57 pm
20 elements and nearly $18,000 is insane.

There's an Italian amateur photographer who wrote an article in Nature Photographer about shooting birds manual focus with refractor telescopes. Manual focus of BIF with perhaps ergonomically not-ideal controls = hard!

agreed- but manual focus BIF with good ergonomic controls is not difficult.  These were made with a 2-element 560mm lens on a cropped camera giving a field of view equivalent to an 800mm lens on a full-frame camera:

(http://wildlightphoto.com/birds/anatidae/noshov03.jpg)

(http://wildlightphoto.com/birds/anatidae/gwgoos05.jpg)

(http://wildlightphoto.com/birds/anatidae/sngoos05.jpg)

This lens cost about 8% of the new Nikon 800mm f/5.6.  The Nikon 800's MTF plot is better but for BIF where subject motion requires a fast shutter speed (VR's usefulness is limited) would anyone see a difference?  For distant subjects where dust, heat waves, clouds of mosquitoes and atmospheric crud degrade the image would anyone see the difference?  On long hikes I know I'd see a diffrerence... I can carry the 560 all day.  This 800 would be left in the truck.  As I see it the 800 is useful in a very limited set of conditions.  I'd have to have a very good reason to spend that much on limited-use equipment.
Title: Re: Nikon 800mm f5.6 announced...
Post by: joneil on January 31, 2013, 02:28:03 pm
  For what it is worth, I use my 80mm, F7 (works out to 560mm)  ED refractor on my Nikons not uncommonly.     I am quite sure it is not as good as the 800mm Nikkor, and my telescope has a fixed aperture (no internal diaphram like a  camera lens has), but you know something - for the price of the 800mm, I could buy 18 of these ED refractors.

   Again, your mileage can and will vary,  but once you get 300mm and beyond in any brand of camera lens, IMO, you are getting into a real specialty market.   I have a beautiful 300mm Nikkor, but I seldom use it outside of birding, which is not all that often.  If you are covering the Olympics or the  Super Bowl, I can see where that 800mm lens (or something similar) will come in handy, but how many of us actually are doing that kind of photography on a regular basis?
Title: Re: Nikon 800mm f5.6 announced...
Post by: Fine_Art on January 31, 2013, 02:53:41 pm
Those far slower, non auto-focus telescopes with far more limited close focusing abilities are hardly comparable, but what I find strange about the Canon and Nikon 800mm, f/5.6 lenses is how much more they cost than the 700mm and 840mm f/5.6 alternatives that Canon amd Nikon already offer: pairing their 500/4 and 600/4 lenses with a 1.4x TC.

After all, any true telephoto lens, meaning one that is physically less long than its focal length, already effectively consists of a shorter lens of proportionately shorter aperture ratio (same effective aperture diameter) with a matched TC permanently attached behind it, the so-called "telephoto group" of lens elements: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telephoto_lens


The price is hardly comparable as well. I'm not knocking the Nikon lens, that MTF chart (which is usually the software model not the actual manufactured part) is amazing. I'd say its an engineering masterpiece. At that price it better be.

The brightness out of the f7.5 scope will probably be similar. 6 surfaces reflecting 1/2% vs 40. It adds up.

There is a guy Fernando Batista in Portugal that has outstanding birds in flight shots with a manual focus telescope.
http://fernandobatista.pt.vu/ (http://fernandobatista.pt.vu/)
He uses focus trap, where the camera is set to release the shutter when it detects focus. He turns the scope focuser in front of where the bird is going (distance wise) so it flies into focus.

So what is autofocus worth? To Nat Geo it is probably worth having a couple of these. To most photographers it may be worth re-learning manual focus skills.
Title: Re: Nikon 800mm f5.6 announced...
Post by: Petrus on January 31, 2013, 03:00:21 pm
I once attended a seminar where a famous sports photographer gave a lecture about his work (pushing Nikon D3), and he was still using manual focus only. He also said he practiced focusing with telephoto lenses at least 20-30 minutes every day. That is one way of approaching it, like a musician...
Title: Re: Nikon 800mm f5.6 announced...
Post by: Dustbak on February 01, 2013, 09:51:56 am
I would love to have an excuse to own this 800mm and use it.... unfortunately  even 400, 500 or 600mm lenses would be a mere indulgence. I am pretty sure there will not be made a very lot of these but they will certainly find some happy owners.
Title: Re: Nikon 800mm f5.6 announced...
Post by: Petrus on February 01, 2013, 01:01:13 pm
I believe I am allowed to do this math but a 300mm*2.75 = 825mm lens .... so bam, medium format 825mm lens which is a stop or so faster then this 17k monster!

^^^I jest a little bit, but still^^^

Well, if you have a 300mm lens on a mid format camera, and make a 135 sized crop from the middle of the sensor, you get the same result as with a FF with 300mm lens...
Title: Re: Nikon 800mm f5.6 announced...
Post by: risedal on February 01, 2013, 05:59:39 pm
Well, if you have a 300mm lens on a mid format camera, and make a 135 sized crop from the middle of the sensor, you get the same result as with a FF with 300mm lens...

no, we would not have the same results because  the MF lens has much lower resolution and contrast / surface area compared to a 24x36mm 300 lens
Title: Re: Nikon 800mm f5.6 announced...
Post by: Petrus on February 02, 2013, 02:22:17 am
Same result = same picture angle........

 ::)
Title: Cropping from a 300mm lens instead
Post by: BJL on February 02, 2013, 06:26:28 pm
...  a 275% crop of the original image which was 60mp, I believe I am allowed to do this math but a 300mm*2.75 = 825mm lens .... so bam, medium format 825mm lens which is a stop or so faster then this 17k monster!
So you are cropping from a 300mm, f/4.5 lens to a portion of the image smaller than 36x24mm? Then you might as well use a 300mm lens on a 36x24mm format camera, still allowing a crop to the same FOV. And with more pixels on the same subject matter if the camera is a D800(E), for which there are 300mm lenses far less expensive than the Hasslebald one (and faster).
Title: Re: Nikon 800mm f5.6 announced...
Post by: Fine_Art on February 02, 2013, 07:22:09 pm
You will need the smallest crop, for any lens FL, on the Sony A77 or NEX 7, 24MP on APS-C.
Title: Re: Nikon 800mm f5.6 announced...
Post by: Fine_Art on February 02, 2013, 07:44:32 pm
I just stumbled upon the Nikon D5200. It is also 24MP on a crop sensor so it is more relevant for this thread.
I don't know the Nikon lineup otherwise I would have mentioned it first.
Title: Re: Nikon 800mm f5.6 announced...
Post by: BJL on February 02, 2013, 08:42:02 pm
You will need the smallest crop, for any lens FL, on the Sony A77 or NEX 7, 24MP on APS-C.
Yes, I thought of that after I posted: the cheapest and highest resolution alternative to that massive 2.75x crop from a 300mm lens on a DMF body is using a 300mm lens on a sub-35mm format body like the Nikon D5200.

By the way, as an alternative to my previous idea of replacing the 800/5.6 with a 600/4 lens and 1.4x on an FX body, one could replace the TC by a DX format body, and so use half the ISO speed.
Title: Re: Nikon 800mm f5.6 announced...
Post by: Brian Hirschfeld on February 02, 2013, 09:19:00 pm
I was being somewhat light hearted....since it decidedly was not the right tool for that job, but it was what I happened to have with me when I was in this situation, D3s was back at the hotel....but fact remains that sometimes medium format cropping helps and can still give you something great.

My numbers were based off how I cropped the original P65+ image to get to the final result.
Title: Re: Nikon 800mm f5.6 announced...
Post by: joneil on February 09, 2013, 07:22:32 am
  Just to add to those old thread, and interesting tidbit form Nikon rumours at:
http://nikonrumors.com/2013/02/07/the-new-nikkor-af-s-800mm-f5-6e-fl-ed-vr-lens.aspx/#more-53302

   This is the line that caught my eye:
The lens hood for the 800mm f/5.6 lens (model: HK-38, product number: 4985) costs $1,078.96!

  Now the lens hood IS included when buy the lens for the $18 thousand, but if you ever lose or damage the lens hood, another grand for replacement?  :(
Title: Re: Nikon 800mm f5.6 announced...
Post by: Fine_Art on February 09, 2013, 02:18:16 pm
 Just to add to those old thread, and interesting tidbit form Nikon rumours at:
http://nikonrumors.com/2013/02/07/the-new-nikkor-af-s-800mm-f5-6e-fl-ed-vr-lens.aspx/#more-53302

   This is the line that caught my eye:
The lens hood for the 800mm f/5.6 lens (model: HK-38, product number: 4985) costs $1,078.96!

  Now the lens hood IS included when buy the lens for the $18 thousand, but if you ever lose or damage the lens hood, another grand for replacement?  :(


Can they throw in a $500 rocket blower?
Title: Re: Nikon 800mm f5.6 announced...
Post by: Brian Hirschfeld on February 10, 2013, 11:20:52 pm
I'm sorry but I think we should all be far more appalled that the Pentax 560mm lens is $7,000 dollars...that seems far more ridiculous then this beeing 17,000 in my mind.....
Title: Re: Nikon 800mm f5.6 announced...
Post by: tsjanik on March 10, 2013, 08:33:32 pm


I'm sorry but I think we should all be far more appalled that the Pentax 560mm lens is $7,000 dollars...that seems far more ridiculous then this beeing 17,000 in my mind.....

No one is pleased with the price, but the Nikon and Canon equivalents are at 10k and up, although a stop faster.

I would prefer this Pentax Lens:


http://www.ebay.com/itm/321087370585?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
Title: Re: Nikon 800mm f5.6 announced...
Post by: wolfnowl on March 10, 2013, 09:35:35 pm
Very few of these were ever made: Hasselblad 300mm f/2.8 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Rare-Hasselblad-Tele-Superachromat-T-FE-300mm-F-2-8-SA-1-7x-205FCC-203FE-/310448034759?pt=Camera_Lenses&hash=item48482513c7&ssPageName=RSS:B:SHOP:GB:101) - mostly because of the limited availability of the glass.  I think they were only $25K when they came out, so the price has gone up some.

Mike.