Luminous Landscape Forum

Equipment & Techniques => Cameras, Lenses and Shooting gear => Topic started by: rjbrown on December 29, 2012, 04:32:10 AM

Title: Loupe for Nikon D800E liveview
Post by: rjbrown on December 29, 2012, 04:32:10 AM
I was looking into improving my live-view experience with the D800.

I was wondering if anyone had experience of using a loupe and whether it was felt to make a significant improvement ? Was it money well spent ? I have read that there is loupe available called a Hoodman HoodLoupe 3.0 and wondered if this was a worthwhile purchase ?

On a similar theme - are there recommendations for a screen protector for the D800 or is it best leaving the plastic protector on the back (as purchased) ?

I have read that changing the picture control sharpening setting improves the sharpness of Live-View. Does anyone have any further tips ?


Title: Re: Loupe for Nikon D800E liveview
Post by: Paul2660 on December 29, 2012, 07:20:17 AM
The hoodman loupe is a good place to start.  It will also make reading the screen easier in bright light.

On settings for Liveview check out Lloyd chambers site.  He has some recommendations on settings that make the Liveview easier to focus.  It was on the free part of the site. He talks about how to create a custom setting which may help.

Paul

Title: Re: Loupe for Nikon D800E liveview
Post by: Ken Bennett on December 29, 2012, 07:47:04 AM
I use the Hoodloupe all the time,it's an essential part of my kit. It's very useful for Live View focusing and composing, but I also use it for chimping outdoors so I can get a better idea of exposure.
Title: Re: Loupe for Nikon D800E liveview
Post by: stamper on December 29, 2012, 07:55:35 AM
I have one of these which I use on the Nikon D700 & D300. Well made and a lot cheaper than the Hoodman which I have never used. Does the job!

http://photosolve.com/main/product/xtendaview/pro3.0/index.html
Title: Re: Loupe for Nikon D800E liveview
Post by: LawrenceBraunstein on December 29, 2012, 08:27:55 AM
I find the Hoodman loupe (‘HoodLoupe’) very helpful with Live View, particularly in bright sunlight. Though I still use the old HoodLoupe 3.0 (for 3” LCD’s) which was purchased together with my D700, Hoodman is now selling a HoodLoupe 3.2 which presumably better fits the somewhat larger 3.2” LCD of the D800/E. Zacuto also sells a number of LCD loupes (Z-finder) which some photographers claim to be noticeably superior to Hoodman’s offerings (albeit at substantially higher prices).

After increasing the sharpness setting on my D800E I have found finding critical focus considerably easier. I have heard some photographers additionally increase the contrast setting, though I wouldn’t recommend it for fear of detrimentally influencing the already inaccurate (JPEG-based...) histogram. Of course, none of these changes have any influence on the RAW file.
 
Best wishes,

Larry
Title: Re: Loupe for Nikon D800E liveview
Post by: Ellis Vener on December 29, 2012, 09:17:43 PM
I use the Hoodman 3x loupe regularly. It's a good tool but I hate the straps they have for it and also the crane  that fits into the hotshoe so you have hands free viewing. You should also try using it with the "zoom" feature on the D800.
Title: Re: Loupe for Nikon D800E liveview
Post by: msbc on December 30, 2012, 01:34:18 AM
On settings for Liveview check out Lloyd chambers site.  He has some recommendations on settings that make the Liveview easier to focus.  It was on the free part of the site. He talks about how to create a custom setting which may help.

Paul,

I searched diglloyd but only found links to the paid section for Liveview tips. Do you have a link to the free info you mention.

Mark
Title: Re: Loupe for Nikon D800E liveview
Post by: LawrenceBraunstein on December 30, 2012, 03:10:29 AM
Mark,

Diglloyd’s tip is found in the section entitled “D800 / D800E Live View Tip for Better Definition” which is part of his extensive review of the D800 and, unfortunately, is located in his ‘Diglloyd Advanced Photography’ (DAP) section which is in fact only available to subscribers.  However, basically he recommends doing what I mention in my comments above, namely to increase the sharpening setting to ‘9’.  He also suggests creating a custom Picture Control setting (he used Nikon’s Camera Control software to do the editing) with the sharpening set to maximum (9).  Lastly, he offers a .zip file with this custom setting which one can load on to the already existing pre-sets.  Basically that’s it, in a nutshell.  Lest I provoke Lloyd Chambers’ wrath by divulging information which is only available to paying readers, I do find his blog extremely informative and well worth the subscription price.  Hope this helps.

Best wishes,

Larry
Title: Re: Loupe for Nikon D800E liveview
Post by: RFPhotography on December 30, 2012, 08:36:11 AM
The problem with the loupes/magnifiers out there currently is that they don't fit the larger 3.2" LCD of the D800/E.  I don't think there is a decent quality option available yet.  The 3" ones will work but you lose some of the image view.
Title: Re: Loupe for Nikon D800E liveview
Post by: Paul2660 on December 30, 2012, 09:25:50 AM
Larry:

Thanks for posting the info.  It used to be in the free side of Lloyd's site as I had posted it some months ago on the getdpi site.  I have tried the settings Lloyd recommends and they seem to help more on wide angle lenses. 

I just created a new landscape picture control using his settings and go back and forth between them. 

I want to say that the custom settings also effect the view on the LCD when reviewing an image making it appear too sharp.  But I am not 100% sure of that.

I also agree that Lloyd's site has some great info.

Paul
Title: Re: Loupe for Nikon D800E liveview
Post by: Scott O. on December 30, 2012, 04:07:17 PM
The problem with the loupes/magnifiers out there currently is that they don't fit the larger 3.2" LCD of the D800/E.  I don't think there is a decent quality option available yet.  The 3" ones will work but you lose some of the image view.

Both Hoodman and Zacuto have recently come out with 3.2" models. The Hoodman is fine hand-held. The Zacuto works well when attached with their mount, unless you use a tripod bracket. Their stick on frame doesn't clear the Nikon control buttons so it must be used with the stock protective screen, which according to the Nikon manual is optically designed for protection only. There is really no perfect solution, so I have one of each (and am selling a new Zacuto that wife didn't like). I use the Zacuto with Live View so I have my hands free and the Hoodman for everything else.
Title: Re: Loupe for Nikon D800E liveview
Post by: RFPhotography on January 02, 2013, 03:48:54 PM
Didn't know Zacuto now had one.  I don't like the handheld nature of the Hoodman.  As it happens, I was just reading a blog elsewhere and found this one, which is available for the D800,http://www.kinotehnik.com/products/lcdvf/compatibility.  €119 isn't too horrid a price.  No idea if the mounting plate clears all the buttons on the back of the camera.
Title: Re: Loupe for Nikon D800E liveview
Post by: Wayne Fox on January 02, 2013, 06:47:48 PM
Hoodmans are great, especially with mirrorless cameras or for critical live view focusing ... I assume you've seen this article by Michael (http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/accessories/hoodloupe-3.shtml)? 


They really aren't "loupes" per say, they don't magnify the image.  But with digital that's not necessary since you can zoom in on the LCD.  You just need a way to block extra light and be able to focus closely.  They really quite well if you are on a tripod, little more challenging if you try to attach it to the camera for hand held.  The rubber bands are a little odd and on some cameras don't work very well.
Title: Re: Loupe for Nikon D800E liveview
Post by: Ellis Vener on January 02, 2013, 08:25:38 PM
Quote
They really aren't "loupes" per say, they don't magnify the image.

It's not a true magnifier the wat a Schneider, Rodenstock or Fuji 4X loupe is but the lens is focusable so you canplace your eye much closer to the LCD and still be able to see the screen in focus than you could without it. I like that the new 3.2 and Compact Hoodloupes hasa a threaded mount.
Title: Re: Loupe for Nikon D800E liveview
Post by: maxgruzen on January 02, 2013, 10:32:36 PM
So why not just use a cloth over your head? Cheap, easy to carry around your neck, effective and a class act! And the image is not upside down!
Title: Re: Loupe for Nikon D800E liveview
Post by: JeffKohn on January 03, 2013, 12:28:37 AM
The problem with the loupes/magnifiers out there currently is that they don't fit the larger 3.2" LCD of the D800/E.  I don't think there is a decent quality option available yet.  The 3" ones will work but you lose some of the image view.
I used an LCDVF (http://www.kinotehnik.com/products/lcdvf/overview) on my D3x and loved it; much higher quality than the Hoodman IMHO. They're finally shipping a 3.2" version for the newer Nikons, mine is currently in transit, should be here in a few days.
Title: Re: Loupe for Nikon D800E liveview
Post by: Scott O. on January 03, 2013, 02:09:33 AM
I was not aware of this product, and it does look good. They have apparently addressed the mounting problem that Zacuto has ignored. There is not enough room to attach the hood mount on the 800/e without hitting the various bottons. But, the attachment method of the LCDVF for those of us who use l-brackets is very suspect. Zacuto recomends their stick-on bracket be used with the protective screen, which is not satisfactory optically. Note: The 3.2" Hoodman compresses to half size when not in use, good for storage.
Title: Re: Loupe for Nikon D800E liveview
Post by: RFPhotography on January 03, 2013, 07:13:45 AM
Why is the LCDVF suspect when using an L bracket?
Title: Re: Loupe for Nikon D800E liveview
Post by: Scott O. on January 03, 2013, 01:17:24 PM
Because they work in the same way as the stock protector does. If the L-bracket doesn't have an indent for the protector, the bracket will keep some of them from attaching. The stock protector seems to work, but the other thinner ones do not. I use RRS brackets, and it seems like it would be easy to machine in a small grove. Nothing is ever perfect, particularily when dealing with multiple manufacturers. Anyhow, I will be interested to find out if the LCDVF attachment works with an L-bracket.
Title: Re: Loupe for Nikon D800E liveview
Post by: RFPhotography on January 03, 2013, 02:40:54 PM
I still can't see why it wouldn't.  It attaches to the camera via magnets.  The small frame that adheres to the back of the camera is metal and magnets n the loupe attach to that.  The frame uses adhesive to attach to the camera, not the mounting mechanism of the lcd protector.  That is the LCDVF, specifically.  Can't say how others work.
Title: Re: Loupe for Nikon D800E liveview
Post by: Scott O. on January 03, 2013, 04:16:55 PM
If you are dealing with an 800/E, from the LCDVF web site:

"LCDVF 4N, specific to Nikon D800 and D800E cameras, utilizes slightly different mounting though - the metal frame is not glue-on but is housed in a plastic clip-on frame that attaches to the camera in the exact same way as it's original screen protector."

Hopefully it will work, please let us know...
Title: Re: Loupe for Nikon D800E liveview
Post by: RFPhotography on January 03, 2013, 04:29:29 PM
Ah!  I hadn't seen that on their website.  It won't affect me as I made my own L bracket, but yes, now I can see how it might impact others.  I'm going to have to go back to their website to try and find that.
Title: Re: Loupe for Nikon D800E liveview
Post by: LawrenceBraunstein on January 06, 2013, 08:07:21 AM
I purchased an LCDVF loupe for my D800E and can say, Scott Oberle’s reservations are well justified. The use of a RRS L-Bracket does definitely interfere with the LCDVF’s frame which snaps onto the D800 in the same fashion as Nikon’s standard LCD protector. I solved the problem by cutting a piece of cardboard (min. 1.5 mm thick) slightly smaller than the base of the L-Bracket, adding a hole for the screw, and then fastening the L-Bracket (together with the cardboard spacer) to the D800 in its usual position. This helped to clear the small lip at the base of the LCDVF’s frame, allowing it to rest securely in place.  Interestingly enough, I never had such problems with the RRS L-Bracket in conjunction with Nikon’s standard LCD protector.  However...!

If you have poor vision and wear glasses, as I do, you might incur considerable problems with the LCDVF ‘4N’ (the version made specifically for the D800/E) because of its lack of dioptric correction. I have progressive corrective lenses which make it extremely difficult to use the loupe.  If I use my reading glasses, I have no problem at all. However, the ‘reading’ portion of my progressive glasses is at the bottom of the lenses (logically enough) which makes use of the loupe literally a neck-breaking affair! Just a small warning for potential buyers.

Best wishes,

Larry

P.S. I believe only the LCDVF '3C' (the version made for Canon's 5D MkIII and 1DX) offers a diopter correction option.
Title: Re: Loupe for Nikon D800E liveview
Post by: AFairley on January 06, 2013, 12:09:01 PM
I'm not a big LV user, so the investment in a hood type loupe is not worth it for me, but I carry a 2.5x jewelers eye loupe in my bag.  With the thing screwed into your eye you can do magnified LV hand held as with the hoods, of course it does not provide anchor stability or glare shielding.  OTOH it's cheap.
Title: Re: Loupe for Nikon D800E liveview
Post by: RFPhotography on January 06, 2013, 02:50:34 PM
I purchased an LCDVF loupe for my D800E and can say, Scott Oberle’s reservations are well justified. The use of a RRS L-Bracket does definitely interfere with the LCDVF’s frame which snaps onto the D800 in the same fashion as Nikon’s standard LCD protector. I solved the problem by cutting a piece of cardboard (min. 1.5 mm thick) slightly smaller than the base of the L-Bracket, adding a hole for the screw, and then fastening the L-Bracket (together with the cardboard spacer) to the D800 in its usual position. This helped to clear the small lip at the base of the LCDVF’s frame, allowing it to rest securely in place.  Interestingly enough, I never had such problems with the RRS L-Bracket in conjunction with Nikon’s standard LCD protector.  However...!

If you have poor vision and wear glasses, as I do, you might incur considerable problems with the LCDVF ‘4N’ (the version made specifically for the D800/E) because of its lack of dioptric correction. I have progressive corrective lenses which make it extremely difficult to use the loupe.  If I use my reading glasses, I have no problem at all. However, the ‘reading’ portion of my progressive glasses is at the bottom of the lenses (logically enough) which makes use of the loupe literally a neck-breaking affair! Just a small warning for potential buyers.

Best wishes,

Larry

P.S. I believe only the LCDVF '3C' (the version made for Canon's 5D MkIII and 1DX) offers a diopter correction option.

I've ordered the 4n and expect it to be here in a few days.  I do wear glasses so am not thrilled about your comment regarding the viewfinder.  That said, I don't use the diopter correction in the regular Nikon viewfinder but maybe the magnification factor is the issue with the LCDVF?  If it doesn't work, it'll have to be returned.

As far as the RRS bracket, I'd think a piece of rubber adhered to the bottom leg of the bracket would be a more permanent solution than cardboard.
Title: Re: Loupe for Nikon D800E liveview
Post by: RFPhotography on January 07, 2013, 12:43:25 PM
Just received it and it'll have to go back.  Can't determine focus due to wearing glasses.
Title: Re: Loupe for Nikon D800E liveview
Post by: kers on January 07, 2013, 01:25:18 PM
Just received it and it'll have to go back.  Can't determine focus due to wearing glasses.
I use the 3inch Hoodman loop over two years now . I like it a lot. On the d800 it is not a problem at all and you can change the dioptric correction.
The only thing missing is a way to attach it to the body- in some cases (video) that would be very welcome. the optical performance is better than the viewfinder quality...
(i set the dioptric once and put a screw in so it stays put.)

Title: Re: Loupe for Nikon D800E liveview
Post by: LawrenceBraunstein on January 07, 2013, 01:31:53 PM
Sorry to hear that! I'll probably end up returning mine as well. I was wondering, however, if it would be possible to adapt the ‘3C’ version (which does have dioptric correction) for use with the D800/E. I’ve learned my lesson though, and next time I’ll make sure the loupe is ‘usable’ before ordering one!

Best wishes,

Larry
Title: Re: Loupe for Nikon D800E liveview
Post by: RFPhotography on January 07, 2013, 02:37:36 PM
I use the 3inch Hoodman loop over two years now . I like it a lot. On the d800 it is not a problem at all and you can change the dioptric correction.
The only thing missing is a way to attach it to the body- in some cases (video) that would be very welcome. the optical performance is better than the viewfinder quality...
(i set the dioptric once and put a screw in so it stays put.)



The thing I don't like about the Hoodman are the elastic straps that are used to affix it to the camera.  

I had to pay $40 in taxes when it arrived and the shipping will likely be about $50 so the refund won't be all that spiffy when it does come.
Title: Re: Loupe for Nikon D800E liveview
Post by: Scott O. on January 08, 2013, 12:41:51 AM
Here is my summary opinion regarding these things. I have decided to use both a Hoodman Hoodloupe and Zacuto Z-Finder...your experience may vary!

1. For use to check focus or anything else on the LCD when shooting outdoors, I use the Hoodman. Works extremely well if you do not mind holding it up. And when not in use hangs around my neck relatively out of the way.
2. When using LiveView or shooting movies, I use the Zacuto as it is hands-free. I use their stick-on mount rather than their erector set type attachment as I use a RRS L-bracket. The stick-on mount attaches to an LCD protector cover as this allows it to clear the buttons. To avoid problems with the L-bracket knocking the cover off I use a spacer between the camera and the L-bracket as several people on this forum suggested (thanks, great idea!).

Anyhow, no perfect solution. But currently this seems to be the best for me...
Title: Re: Loupe for Nikon D800E liveview
Post by: RFPhotography on January 08, 2013, 08:36:59 AM
Scott, no problems with the plastic LCD protector and seeing critical focus?
Title: Re: Loupe for Nikon D800E liveview
Post by: kers on January 08, 2013, 08:50:26 AM
Cambo  ( www.cambo.com)  has also a loupe in their video lineup.

It is attached to the dDSLR and has Schneider optics that enlarges the viewfinder.
I have looked through it and it is best loupe i have seen.
for the d800 the loupe is called CS-31 Loupe Set

It is ideal for video but has a price ( >300€)
Title: Re: Loupe for Nikon D800E liveview
Post by: RFPhotography on January 09, 2013, 11:03:26 AM
That may well be the price of entry for something that works well.  

I saw the CS-31 on the Cambo website but can't find it for sale anywhere.  I'm also not sure that it can be mounted without the bottom bracket which takes up the tripod socket.
Title: Re: Loupe for Nikon D800E liveview
Post by: JeffKohn on January 09, 2013, 11:17:45 AM
Yeah it looks like Cambo solved the tripod plate problem by integrating their own tripod plate. Not really a solution for L-Bracket users.

I got my LCDVF 4N and I'm pretty annoyed to find out that it's not actually a 3.2" loupe - it's the same 3" loupe they sell as the LCDVF, they only difference is that mounting frame is raised enough to let you see the 3.2" screen. Which means I didn't need to buy another loupe, I just needed the mounting adapter (which they don't sell separately at the moment). Looking again at the product page I see now that it doesn't explicitly state the loupe is larger, but it sure doesn't make it clear that it's the same loupe.

I was actually able to get the mounting adapter installed with my RRS l-bracket, although the extra pressure on the bottom of the adapter causes a small gap between the adapter and the camera at the top so I guess some rubber or something between camera and l-bracket would help. But I'm not exactly thrilled with the mounting adapter because it somewhat obscures the screen edges when not using the loupe. Guess I'm probably gonna send it back, I can just use my existing LCDVF and hold it up to the screen with my hand.
Title: Re: Loupe for Nikon D800E liveview
Post by: Scott O. on January 09, 2013, 11:25:46 AM
Actually, I did use the Zacuto on the stock Nikon LCD protector. It worked very well, but made every imperfection and piece of dirt on the thing really stand out! I will now try attaching the Zacuto via the stick-on mount to the GGS III LCD screen protector. I did have to put a spacer between the camera and the L-bracket as has been discussed previously. I haven't used this setup yet and my only concern is whether the GGS attaches firmly enough to allow the Zacuto to be put off and on. We'll see!
Title: Re: Loupe for Nikon D800E liveview
Post by: RFPhotography on January 09, 2013, 11:58:36 AM
I wonder if the adhesive bracket for the 3.2" Z-Finder could be cut away a bit with an exacto knife or something similar to make it fit around the dial.

I just sent a bunch of questions to Zacuto.  The responded very quickly and said that the 3.2" is the same finder as for all the others, it's just the frame that's bigger.  So no difference there from the Kinotehnik.  Kinotehnik hasn't responded to my RMA request yet.  Zacuto also said that there is a tripod socket on the bottom of their Gorilla bracket so you're still able to mount the camera on a tripod or a rig.  Is that also the case with the Cambo, I wonder?  Zacuto also has a bracket extender for using with a battery grip.  At a princely $105. 
Title: Re: Loupe for Nikon D800E liveview
Post by: Scott O. on January 09, 2013, 01:08:14 PM
Bob, what you say is true re: the Gorilla Bracket. But when used with an L-bracket, you have junk hanging all over the place. The direct attachment to the LCD is preferred. But, if you look closely, there is a small ridge at the top and bottom of the Nikon LCD screen. Guess what affect that has on the stick-on attachment! Right you are...it sacrifices strength. I used it this way at first (even filed down the plastic attachment bracket so it cleared the large button) but it wasn't strong enough. And you do get to see the entire LCD with the 3.2" bracket, doesn't matter that the Zacuto is really 3.0". By the way, if you want to buy a Zacuto, I have one for sale in the "For Sale" section. It belonged to my wife, who used it once (so it is in new condition) and decided she would rather have a Hoodman.
Title: Re: Loupe for Nikon D800E liveview
Post by: RFPhotography on January 09, 2013, 02:12:23 PM
I can see that being a problem, Scott.  I wouldn't be looking to use an L-bracket and the loupe together so not a problem for me.  I am aware of that small lip on the LCD.  Didn't know if it would impact the frame or not.  I use mine with a grip all the time and not sure I want to pay the $105 for the extension.  May have to keep looking.
Title: Re: Loupe for Nikon D800E liveview
Post by: dwswager on December 16, 2014, 10:37:08 AM
I know this thread is old, with respect to the Kinotehnik LCDVF 4N on the Nikon D810 with an RRS L Plate BD-810L, is the issue that it cannot be attached/detached with the L-plate installed or that it is too big on the bottom edge to fit with the L-Plate unless you put some sort of spacer in between the camera body and the L-plate?

I have the $20 wing nut screw and so loosening the L-Plate to put it on and off is less onerous than hunting down an allen key.

I'm still debating between a Hoodman Compact and something more permanently attached.  I shoot a lot in low light  and at night were I don't really NEED a hood, but there are times.

Also, I will recommend the DK-17M 1.2X (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/387769-REG/Nikon_4793_DK_17M_Magnifying_Eyepiece_for.html) viewfinder magnifier in combination with the Nikon DK-19 Eye Cup (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/352124-REG/Nikon_4787_DK_19_Rubber_Eyecup_for.html/prm/alsVwDtl).  As an old fart, viewfinder use dies hard and I find sometimes I use a combination live view and viewfinder.