Luminous Landscape Forum

Equipment & Techniques => Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs – and Large Sensor Photography => Topic started by: andreagenor on December 17, 2012, 09:42:49 AM

Title: Please Help Leaf Aptus Frozen!
Post by: andreagenor on December 17, 2012, 09:42:49 AM
My Leaf Aptus 75 is frozen.
I do some test shootings today and everything works right.
After I shutdown the DB and moving camera and computer for new location, when I try to turn on the light is red or orange em blink, but not start anymore.
Please someone can help me?
Sorry my very bad English.
Title: Re: Please Help Leaf Aptus Frozen!
Post by: MarkoRepse on December 17, 2012, 09:55:01 AM
Maybe your CF card got corrupted? Try formatting it again in the computer and see if the back starts up normally.
Title: Re: Please Help Leaf Aptus Frozen!
Post by: Gigi on December 17, 2012, 10:12:47 AM
try: turn off back, pull card and battery too. Wait 1 minute, start up again.
Title: Re: Please Help Leaf Aptus Frozen!
Post by: yaya on December 17, 2012, 10:41:17 AM
Hi Andre, please contact your local dealer (http://www.mamiyaleaf.com/fall_br.asp) or our support team (http://www.phaseone.com/en/SupportMain/ContactSupport.aspx) and make sure you provide as much information as possible: type of back/ camera/ firmware/ software on your PC/ Mac etc.

Sounds like you were shooting tethered so also provide information about the kind of cable you are using and so on. That way we can get you up and running again with the least amount of trouble and time wasting.

BR

Yair
Title: Re: Please Help Leaf Aptus Frozen!
Post by: andreagenor on December 17, 2012, 10:50:20 AM
Yes, I shooting tethered!
No CF Card
Macbook Black - FW 400-400
Leaf Aptus 75 V Mount
Firmware: I can't see now
Mamiya RZ + Leaf Adaptor Plate
Capture One Pro 6
Title: Re: Please Help Leaf Aptus Frozen!
Post by: FredBGG on December 17, 2012, 12:52:24 PM
Take the back off the camera,disconnect from fire wire. Power down and remove battery. Wait a minute and power up again with battery, no firewire.

If that works you may have a bad firewire cable or plugs.

Did you move from dry and cold to a warm and humid location? I'm asking due to the time of the year.
For example street on a cold icy winter day and then inside a warm restaurant. You can get condensation problems that can effect backs, cables and laptop.
Title: Re: Please Help Leaf Aptus Frozen!
Post by: andreagenor on December 17, 2012, 01:05:02 PM
My FW cable is bad, the plugs are little dirt, but works 30 minutes before.
I sent to my dealer now.

Today here is about 32º Celsius with 55% Humidity. But inside the studio is between 19 to 21ºC.
Title: Re: Please Help Leaf Aptus Frozen!
Post by: FredBGG on December 17, 2012, 01:17:53 PM
Today here is about 32º Celsius with 55% Humidity. But inside the studio is between 19 to 21ºC.

That should not be a problem at all.

Does your back start without the cable?

Your fire wire cable needs to be good and nice and clean.

Title: Re: Please Help Leaf Aptus Frozen!
Post by: andreagenor on December 17, 2012, 01:26:21 PM
The back not start anyway.
I tried with FW normal, without CF card
I tried to read CF card
I tried only with CF card and battery
The light only blink orange.
Title: Re: Please Help Leaf Aptus Frozen!
Post by: HarperPhotos on December 17, 2012, 05:27:36 PM
Hello Andrea,

Can you please keep us in the loop with your unfortunate problem.

As I also are a owner of a Leaf Aptus 75 I would be very interested to get your feed back on the cost of repair and the quality of service you will get from Leaf when dealing with a old back like the Leaf Aptus 75.

Merry Christmas,

Simon
Title: Re: Please Help Leaf Aptus Frozen!
Post by: Gel on December 17, 2012, 06:59:01 PM
What was the actuation count on you back?
Title: Re: Please Help Leaf Aptus Frozen!
Post by: andreagenor on December 19, 2012, 01:28:00 PM
Simon, when DB come back I post here the problem and the costs for repair.

Gel,  about 38.000
Title: Re: Please Help Leaf Aptus Frozen!
Post by: HarperPhotos on January 03, 2013, 01:56:42 PM
Hello Andrea,

Any news or developments on your Leaf back repair?

Cheers

Simon
Title: Re: Please Help Leaf Aptus Frozen!
Post by: andreagenor on January 04, 2013, 10:29:38 AM
Hi Simon, the DB not come back yet.
The dealer says that DB need go to the Leaf in Israel.
I'm still waiting. :(

André
Title: Re: Please Help Leaf Aptus Frozen!
Post by: andreagenor on February 01, 2013, 07:55:30 AM
Hi yesterday I got notices about my Aptus 75.
The Firewire board is dead and need a new one. The IR filter has some marks and the change is needed.
The price for all repairs US 3,450.00
I need wait about two weeks because they don't have the IR filter.
Title: Re: Please Help Leaf Aptus Frozen!
Post by: torger on February 01, 2013, 08:48:34 AM
Sounds like a repair very similar to what I recently did with my Aptus 75. The price is the same as mine (pricing should be standardized, i e almost exactly the same regardless of dealer).

I think they will replace the "e-box", i e all electronics except sensor not just the firewire board. If I've understood correctly that is how the back is designed. If some electronics breaks, you replace the e-box, not just some single component. It feels a bit pricey for such an old back, but what you get back is essentially an "as new" digital back with fresh electronics so it's a quite okay deal.

Service time seems to vary *a lot*, and depends both on dealer and Leaf factory (and if you live in a remote area like me the courier :), it took almost a week extra for UPS to deliver the back to me). One must be prepared to wait quite some time, I don't think repair of old backs is the top priority.
Title: Re: Please Help Leaf Aptus Frozen!
Post by: Zachary Goulko on February 01, 2013, 02:33:08 PM
I've had the same exact issue with my Aptus 75, over the past 4 years that I've owned it.
The firewire board has gotten fried twice already, and it cost me around $1,200 to have it replaced by MAC group (if i remember correctly).
I'm not sure why this is a recurring problem, but they were very quick with the repairs, if that helps any.
Title: Re: Please Help Leaf Aptus Frozen!
Post by: torger on February 02, 2013, 07:01:09 AM
Oh, so it seems some dealers are indeed capable of replacing only the broken part rather than the whole e-box, saving a considerable amount of money for the customer.
Title: Re: Please Help Leaf Aptus Frozen!
Post by: eronald on February 02, 2013, 08:09:18 AM
I've had the same exact issue with my Aptus 75, over the past 4 years that I've owned it.
The firewire board has gotten fried twice already, and it cost me around $1,200 to have it replaced by MAC group (if i remember correctly).
I'm not sure why this is a recurring problem, but they were very quick with the repairs, if that helps any.

Either this is a native weakness in the design, or some incompatibility issues with the tethering are burning out the port.

Leaf's robust modular design looks like something inspired by military hardware.

Edmund
Title: Re: Please Help Leaf Aptus Frozen!
Post by: Nigel Bewley on June 29, 2013, 04:26:31 AM
I had similar problems with my Leaf Aptus 65. I took the back into Calumet (in London) the store I bought it from. At first they thought it was corrupt firmware. That was updated but not the problem. The back (coupled to my Hasselblad) worked properly when tethered. As soon as a CF card was installed it froze and stopped working. I left the back with Calumet for further investigation and it was the e-box that was faulty. I got an estimate for repair and just less than 2 weeks later I've got it back, fully repaired, overhauled and 'as new'. That cost GBP1800 (£1800).  Ooooof!!
But what could I do? A new back was financially out of the question for me. A decent second hand back was more than the repair. Shooting tethered was impractical for me. I wanted to keep the Hassy but not to gather dust and not to shoot film with. The only solution was to go ahead with the repair.....
Title: Re: Please Help Leaf Aptus Frozen!
Post by: andreagenor on June 29, 2013, 10:23:00 AM
My back come back this week, after about six months.
At first time they say, I need change the FW card and UV glass. About U$3.400
After some weeks they say there is one scratch in the sensor and is not viable to repair.
I said ok, send me back, I will make trade when I can.

When back arrived I but battery only for test if he is frozen yet and for my surprise he work normaly, turn on, tethered, I only not test with CF yet. there is no sensor scratch....he is works completly fine.

Now I don't know whats happened, but I'm happy! :)

Sorry my bad English.
Title: Re: Please Help Leaf Aptus Frozen!
Post by: ErikKaffehr on June 29, 2013, 11:59:57 AM
Hi,

Do you mean expensive but broken?

Best regards
Erik


Leaf's robust modular design looks like something inspired by military hardware.

Edmund
Title: Re: Please Help Leaf Aptus Frozen!
Post by: sbernthal on June 29, 2013, 02:04:10 PM
FW board repair - you said you used a dirty cable.
This is a very bad idea - the FW board is the most sensitive part of the back.
Since you plug the cable in and out all the time, it is the place most likely to develop wear and failure.
If you want to avoid it, use only Leaf cables with their proprietary connector - they are expensive but using them (clean ones only!) will make the FW board failure much less likely, so they're worth it.

Also, note that you can pay $800 per year for continuing warranty, and then these fixes are for free.
Title: Re: Please Help Leaf Aptus Frozen!
Post by: andreagenor on June 29, 2013, 04:42:22 PM
Yes, I have played my cable in the trash!
I find that my DB not burned the FW, it only frozen, so when they opened and changed boards for testing, it come back to the life.
Title: Re: Please Help Leaf Aptus Frozen!
Post by: HarperPhotos on June 29, 2013, 05:16:26 PM
Hello,

For me I am pleased that I have sold my Leaf Aptus 75 and to get that monkey off my back. My studio is now 100% Nikon D800’s and I couldn’t be more happier.

To have to rely on a piece of equipment which in most cases has to be returned to it country of manufacturer for repair and then get charged the cost of a Nikon D800 for that repair and of course the time to repair it is quite frankly absurd.

Cheers

Simon
Title: Re: Please Help Leaf Aptus Frozen!
Post by: sbernthal on June 29, 2013, 05:39:05 PM
Aptus 75 is a 2005 model.
D800 is a 2012 model.

If you were serious about medium format, you would have kept up, and upgraded to a new model every 3-4 years.
Then you are also always under warranty and don't have any problems with repair cost or replacement unit while waiting for repair.

I don't see how you can compare a 2012 machine to a 2005 machine, in an industry where every 3 years there is a new generation.
Also I don't think a digital back can be the secondary system.
For me I use always the digital back, and I revert to the Canon only when I absolutely must.
Title: Re: Please Help Leaf Aptus Frozen!
Post by: HarperPhotos on June 29, 2013, 06:04:52 PM
Hello,

The reason I never upgraded was in my opinion there was never any major improvements in design or technology with the MFB’s to warrant the expenditure. More pixels and that’s it.

Now the development of 35mm digital has been dramatic and I know the next generation from Nikon will be another leap forward.

In my business I have no room for redundant equipment which the Leaf Aptus 75 represented.

Cheers

Simon
Title: Re: Please Help Leaf Aptus Frozen!
Post by: ErikKaffehr on June 29, 2013, 06:51:53 PM
Hi,

I would say that there has been much more development in DSLR/CMOS than MFD/CCD. It is also easier to justify spending 3000$ than 30000$, right?

But all this has little to do with the original posting, doesn't it?

Best regards
Erik

Aptus 75 is a 2005 model.
D800 is a 2012 model.

If you were serious about medium format, you would have kept up, and upgraded to a new model every 3-4 years.
Then you are also always under warranty and don't have any problems with repair cost or replacement unit while waiting for repair.

I don't see how you can compare a 2012 machine to a 2005 machine, in an industry where every 3 years there is a new generation.
Also I don't think a digital back can be the secondary system.
For me I use always the digital back, and I revert to the Canon only when I absolutely must.
Title: Re: Please Help Leaf Aptus Frozen!
Post by: HarperPhotos on June 29, 2013, 07:29:07 PM
Hello,

I think it does. My point is I think Andrea is flogging a dead horse when it comes to her MFB and should consider a different alternative in what brand of camera equipment she decides to use in the future.

My decisions on what camera system I have chosen is based on the sort of work I do and what I preserve as a good investment in lenses and camera bodies as well as reliability and ease of availability.

Cheers

Simon
Title: Re: Please Help Leaf Aptus Frozen!
Post by: sbernthal on June 30, 2013, 01:10:01 AM
Trust me, there were very major improvements since 2005.
I also started with a 2005 model, and upgraded twice since. The difference is staggering.
Not all the improvements are reported in the specifications.
Image quality is much much better every time a generation changes.
You didn't upgrade because you didn't like the form factor and handling, and maybe it wasn't right for you, but you can't pass judgement on models that you never used.
Title: Re: Please Help Leaf Aptus Frozen!
Post by: HarperPhotos on June 30, 2013, 01:46:47 AM
Hello,

It just wasn’t the MFDB’s that stopped me from up grading but the small selection of lenses and the quality of the MF cameras.

Cheers

Simon
Title: Re: Please Help Leaf Aptus Frozen!
Post by: MrSmith on June 30, 2013, 05:19:26 AM
"If you were serious about medium format, you would have kept up, and upgraded to a new model every 3-4 years."

What a bizarre notion?  Is camera ownership about taking images that satisfy clients expectations (or yourself if an amateur) and fitting in with your fiscal plans or about bragging rights and the acceptance by your peers for your vanity purchase?

having a career as a photographer is a 'serious' business and unless you have a wealthy benefactor is not something to waste money on with bad purchasing decisions. a lot of other advertising photographers i know only upgrade every 5 years if at all or they waited until the first 39mp backs were out and they are still using them today and see little point in spending 20k on something that doesn't change what they deliver to clients apart from bigger files.
Title: Re: Please Help Leaf Aptus Frozen!
Post by: andreagenor on June 30, 2013, 09:22:10 AM
Simon, I have D800 too.
I like the nikon, but I have some nostalgic feeling about work with MFDB and my Mamiya RZ, I love the slow down and thinking more about the picture.
Nikon is good because in my case, auto focus help a lot, but in future I will like change all to a H4x with IQ 260 or some like that.
This config is very expensive, but I feel that new MFDB delivery more 3D and rich images than DSLR.

Other thing, D800 and C1 is very slow, with aptus files C1 works much more fast and consistent.
I think with new generation IQ/Credo is much much better, not only file size, but flexibility for ajustments.
Title: Re: Please Help Leaf Aptus Frozen!
Post by: ErikKaffehr on June 30, 2013, 10:17:26 AM
+1



"If you were serious about medium format, you would have kept up, and upgraded to a new model every 3-4 years."

What a bizarre notion?
Title: Re: Please Help Leaf Aptus Frozen!
Post by: sbernthal on June 30, 2013, 12:52:53 PM
So you know a lot of professional photographers using a digital system from 2005?

Every 5 years that you said, is so drastically different than every 4 years that I said? I find that distinction quite bizarre.


"If you were serious about medium format, you would have kept up, and upgraded to a new model every 3-4 years."

What a bizarre notion?  Is camera ownership about taking images that satisfy clients expectations (or yourself if an amateur) and fitting in with your fiscal plans or about bragging rights and the acceptance by your peers for your vanity purchase?

having a career as a photographer is a 'serious' business and unless you have a wealthy benefactor is not something to waste money on with bad purchasing decisions. a lot of other advertising photographers i know only upgrade every 5 years if at all or they waited until the first 39mp backs were out and they are still using them today and see little point in spending 20k on something that doesn't change what they deliver to clients apart from bigger files.
Title: Re: Please Help Leaf Aptus Frozen!
Post by: ErikKaffehr on June 30, 2013, 01:49:46 PM
Yeah,

Our friend Bcooter (James Russel) does just that. P25 and P30 I think.I also have the impression that he is very professional.

Best regards
Erik

So you know a lot of professional photographers using a digital system from 2005?

Every 5 years that you said, is so drastically different than every 4 years that I said? I find that distinction quite bizarre.


Title: Re: Please Help Leaf Aptus Frozen!
Post by: MrSmith on June 30, 2013, 01:57:21 PM
No interest in arguing over the semantics. My comment still stands that to be serious about MFD you don't have to "keep up" and change your back every 3-4 years.
Title: Re: Please Help Leaf Aptus Frozen!
Post by: sbernthal on June 30, 2013, 03:04:42 PM
Upgrading every 4 years is bizarre.
Upgrading every 5 years is normal.

I get it now.
Title: Re: Please Help Leaf Aptus Frozen!
Post by: MrSmith on June 30, 2013, 03:10:44 PM
Well done.
Title: Re: Please Help Leaf Aptus Frozen!
Post by: Frank Doorhof on July 01, 2013, 12:37:02 AM
Its not about the camera or back of course, it's about what you do with it, what helps me tell my story and solves certain problems I have is the camera I use.

Could I shoot everything with a DSLR?
Yeah of course, but the credo60 I use has a totally different look and feel to the end result, when I shoot film it's the same thing. I will sometimes shoot Minolta, petri, zeiss lenses for their look and feel they give to the shot not because there is one picapixel difference in quality. When you print for publication there is hardly any difference in perceived sharpness, however the look, bokeh, color etc. all stay in tact. For example we have an A2 print from a FujiFilm 400F pro film (35mm) hanging in the studio scanned with an Epson v700 even when looking really close the print is razor sharp and there is hardly any noise, when looking at the screen on 100% it's noisy and soft. If you let the screen guide you you will actually aways pay too much ;)

In the end it boils down to a workflow, (medium format is a beast when shooting tethered, always when I shoot a DSLR I'm slowed down because I will hit a buffer, with medium format there simply isn't a buffer), look and feel of the final image and not unimportant in some cases the use of leaf shutter lenses and the control of DOF when shooting a larger sensor.

That a leaf aptus would be more with the manufacturer than on the camera is weird, I don't know what you do with it, but we travelled a lot with an aptus22 and later aptus7II and I never ever got a problem with the back, I always found the leafs to be build like a tank. But maybe you have been unlucky ?

Title: Re: Please Help Leaf Aptus Frozen!
Post by: Steve Hendrix on July 01, 2013, 05:23:56 PM
Simon, I have D800 too.
I like the nikon, but I have some nostalgic feeling about work with MFDB and my Mamiya RZ, I love the slow down and thinking more about the picture.
Nikon is good because in my case, auto focus help a lot, but in future I will like change all to a H4x with IQ 260 or some like that.
This config is very expensive, but I feel that new MFDB delivery more 3D and rich images than DSLR.

Other thing, D800 and C1 is very slow, with aptus files C1 works much more fast and consistent.
I think with new generation IQ/Credo is much much better, not only file size, but flexibility for ajustments.


Andrea - I'm glad you pointed out your reasons for valuing your Leaf (flogged dead horse?) solution, though you shouldn't have to. I don't understand why someone feels their own personal reasons for not wanting to use a product should supersede someone else's reasons for wanting to use a product.


Steve Hendrix
Capture Integration
Title: Re: Please Help Leaf Aptus Frozen!
Post by: andreagenor on July 01, 2013, 05:48:18 PM
Andrea - I'm glad you pointed out your reasons for valuing your Leaf (flogged dead horse?) solution, though you shouldn't have to. I don't understand why someone feels their own personal reasons for not wanting to use a product should supersede someone else's reasons for wanting to use a product.

I don't know if I understand right, because my English is very bad. Sorry :(
Do you can explain in more simple way?
Title: Re: Please Help Leaf Aptus Frozen!
Post by: HarperPhotos on July 01, 2013, 05:50:36 PM
Hello,

Steve it is not my intention to tell other photographers not to use MFDB’s I am just conveying my reasons why I have decided to stop using them.

At a end of of the day I don’t care what other photographers want to shoot with but as this is a open forum I have the right to voice my opinions on what I think is right for me and my business.

Cheers

Simon
Title: Re: Please Help Leaf Aptus Frozen!
Post by: Steve Hendrix on July 01, 2013, 06:08:52 PM
Hello,

Steve it is not my intention to tell other photographers not to use MFDB’s I am just conveying my reasons why I have decided to stop using them.

At a end of of the day I don’t care what other photographers want to shoot with but as this is a open forum I have the right to voice my opinions on what I think is right for me and my business.

Cheers

Simon


I am totally ok with a photographer choosing to not use MFD - and maybe it was just the way you worded it, but -

"My point is I think Andrea is flogging a dead horse when it comes to her MFB and should consider a different alternative in what brand of camera equipment she decides to use in the future."

This as worded is an opinion - and a pretty strong one at that - but it is based on knowing very little, if anything about her reasons for using MFD. And so it appears by default you inserted your reasons.

I don't talk anyone into MFD. If anything, I talk more people out of it than into it. It's not for everyone. But before I talk them out of it, or agree that they should go forward with it, I have to invest a significant amount of time and discussion over why they are considering it. This just seems to get lost here, sometimes.


Steve Hendrix
Capture Integration
Title: Re: Please Help Leaf Aptus Frozen!
Post by: bcooter on July 02, 2013, 12:44:59 PM

I don't talk anyone into MFD. If anything..........
Steve Hendrix
Capture Integration

Steve,

I think your speaking to deaf ears.

For some reason people that have moved away from one format to another, can't seem to do so happily, without denigrating their previous cameras.

I don't get it, because I can go down the list of cameras I own and except for a few exceptions give a very compelling reason for all formats in certain situations.

There is no holy grail of cameras and it seems the Nikon has raised such emotion I personally wouldn't buy one if it was half price and I have nothing against Nikon since I own most of their newer lenses, I just don't like the d800 that much, though for others they seem to.

As you know I inquired about buying a Hasselblad H5 system earlier this year and that's still on my radar.  The only hold back is the projects were are producing at the time require different cameras from RED's to 4/3's systems cameras.

That doesn't mean I don't like 35mm formats . . . well I guess I should put it another way. 

35mm format cameras have become very physically large and I'm not that wild about modern cmos sensors with continuous lighting sources, but they have their place, just like medium format has a place in the professional world.

With every 35mm new cmos system  I own and use I find the color very global with HMI's and especially softer daylight and I can expand on this, but what's the point?

I could also show in real world use how well even older medium format ccd files hold up but once again, what's the point as it would just be shouted down.

What I do know is from my older Contax/Phase to the new H5d, there is a world of difference in usability, file quality and post production.

The one constant I've seen about this nikon versus the world crusade is I've haven't noticed anyone that uses medium or any other format tell someone not to use the Nikon, though It seems a lot of Nikon users are the exact opposite.

This is just dp review stuff and I probably should not have brought it up.

IMO

BC
Title: Re: Please Help Leaf Aptus Frozen!
Post by: ErikKaffehr on July 02, 2013, 01:04:37 PM
Hi,

I have recently started shooting with a P45+ and a Hasselblad, and it is actually quite fun. Yeah, I bought that stuff used, and I could get a D800E with something like four very decent lenses for the same price. Now, I don't have a Nikon D800E so I cannot compare. Nevertheless I am pretty sure that going Nikon makes a lot of sense, although there have been some reports on issues with Nikon QC recently.

My investment in in MFD was around 15kUSD, and that would buy a lot of brand new Nikon stuff. No way around, MFD is expensive even if entry level prices go down.

From a rational viewpoint, I am a bit with Simon, but if you like working with MFD, the experience may be worth a lot.

Best regards
Erik



I am totally ok with a photographer choosing to not use MFD - and maybe it was just the way you worded it, but -

"My point is I think Andrea is flogging a dead horse when it comes to her MFB and should consider a different alternative in what brand of camera equipment she decides to use in the future."

This as worded is an opinion - and a pretty strong one at that - but it is based on knowing very little, if anything about her reasons for using MFD. And so it appears by default you inserted your reasons.

I don't talk anyone into MFD. If anything, I talk more people out of it than into it. It's not for everyone. But before I talk them out of it, or agree that they should go forward with it, I have to invest a significant amount of time and discussion over why they are considering it. This just seems to get lost here, sometimes.


Steve Hendrix
Capture Integration
Title: Re: Please Help Leaf Aptus Frozen!
Post by: HarperPhotos on July 03, 2013, 01:48:41 AM
Hi Erik,

You summed up my view point perfectly.

“From a rational viewpoint”

Enjoy your summer.

Cheers

Simon
Title: Re: Please Help Leaf Aptus Frozen!
Post by: sbernthal on July 03, 2013, 02:02:25 AM
Hello,

Steve it is not my intention to tell other photographers not to use MFDB’s I am just conveying my reasons why I have decided to stop using them.

At a end of of the day I don’t care what other photographers want to shoot with but as this is a open forum I have the right to voice my opinions on what I think is right for me and my business.

Cheers

Simon

If my memory serves me correctly, you had an RZ system, so very old camera and very old (relatively) back.
RZ is a great system for those who love the form factor and experience, but certainly it is hard to justify in this day and age vs. the modern bodies.
A new 645 body and new back would give you a very different experience than the one you had, although at a very different cost.
It seems you felt uninterested to throw any more money down that path a few years ago already.

The new 645 systems are still not as "flowy" as the newest 35mm's, but many find them quite adequate for their workflow.
It took me a good two years to fully acclimate to a more rigid system than a 35mm.
If you're holding the camera in your hand, or hunting moving subjects, I still think 35mm is the most reasonable way to go.
For static objects in controlled lighting, the MF is for me a delight, and I don't miss the 35mm anymore.
Title: Re: Please Help Leaf Aptus Frozen!
Post by: HarperPhotos on July 03, 2013, 02:37:02 AM
Hello,

I had a Mamiya 645 AFDII system with all the lenses from the fisheye up to the 300mm.

Strangely enough it has taken me now up to two years to sell these relics on EBay where as the Mamiya RZ and Sinar P2 systems sold in a matter of months.

The first lenses to sell from the Mamiya 645 system where the old manual focus lenses.

Cheers

Simon
Title: Re: Please Help Leaf Aptus Frozen!
Post by: sbernthal on July 03, 2013, 02:46:17 AM
AFD II does not support computer shutter release.

That's why it doesn't have high demand, along with slow auto focus and some other problems.

II is not what I meant by a new 645 body - it is four generations behind.

I don't know if you used D lenses, but those give a tangible difference to any 35mm lens, in sharpness at different apertures and parts of the frame.
Admittedly, I still haven't found an MF lens match to Canon 85L.

Lenses have generations too.
For instance:
120mm MF
120mm MF D
120mm AF
Each generation brought a breakthrough in closed aperture sharpness.

I would be surprised if you were using the latest lenses, considering you've already developed a distaste for it. My point is, that the new models of all parts - back, body, lens - give you some value for the upgrade money. Maybe for some users the improvements are not relevant, not worth it, or they actually can't find them, but they're there. It's not a hoax.
Title: Re: Please Help Leaf Aptus Frozen!
Post by: HarperPhotos on July 03, 2013, 03:56:28 AM
Hello,

All my Nikon lenses a G's.

Sbernthal at the end of the day I don’t give a fuck what you thing. If your Mamiya gets you hard in the morning well that’s all good with me.

And yes I know Michael will tell me off.

Ciao

Simon
Title: Re: Please Help Leaf Aptus Frozen!
Post by: ErikKaffehr on July 03, 2013, 04:23:34 AM
Hi,

I guess that Simon says that the Nikon stuff he uses suits him fine, works for him and save a lot of money (bound capital). Nobody needs to argue with that. I think it's pretty good information.

Now, other photographers may have other needs/wants/likes. Everyone chooses how to spend their money.

Best regards
Erik


Hello,

All my Nikon lenses a G's.

Sbernthal at the end of the day I don’t give a fuck what you thing. If your Mamiya gets you hard in the morning well that’s all good with me.

And yes I know Michael will tell me off.

Ciao

Simon
Title: Re: Please Help Leaf Aptus Frozen!
Post by: sgilbert on July 03, 2013, 09:26:03 AM
You just have to love the level of decency and respect on the internet.

I wonder if people behave the same way in person? 
Title: Re: Please Help Leaf Aptus Frozen!
Post by: Steve Hendrix on July 03, 2013, 10:01:04 AM
Well, clearly Shlomi and Simon are at two different extremes.  ;)

But go figure. That's the nature of photography and the equipment choices people make. I would say no two are alike, but unfortunately, that's not true. But there are many, many subjective differences in the approach photographers take to imaging and to the equipment they prefer. I think that's what makes the world go round. I just don't think what does or doesn't work for one applies to someone else, unless you have a detailed sense of what is driving that person and their needs/desires.

Based on the significant amount of feedback Simon has provided right here on this forum, I would say he's made the right choice for himself.

BTW - interestingly, last year I sold more digital backs for RZ than the previous 4-5 years combined. But this year, my RZ fan base is down by comparison. Guess I saturated the market.


....At any rate, I hope Andrea was able to get her situation under control with the help of her (hopefully) trusty dealer.



Steve Hendrix
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