Luminous Landscape Forum
Raw & Post Processing, Printing => Printing: Printers, Papers and Inks => Topic started by: Mike Guilbault on December 12, 2012, 07:27:56 am
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My recent post (http://www.luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?topic=73083.0) about the scroll style of displaying a print (mounting bar across only the top and bottom) revealed that this style seems to have been diluted by the mass production of 'cheap' reproductions available at big-box stores and such and used for advertising displays. At least that was what I got out of the conversation.
So my question is, what is the trend in display techniques? For example, everyone is doing canvas wraps. It has many benefits, weight, cost, frameless (if you want it that way), etc., but is it heading the way of the scroll too? The 'art' aisle at Walmart is full of gallery wraps in every shape and size - some of it with rather nice imagery. Is this watering down this form of display?
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I offer two products to my portrait clients, 2"thick canvas wraps (thicker separates them from the shutterfly crap) and prints framed with a 6ply or more white mat. I only offer white and I use a wide and thick mat to make it feel more like a museum presentation and generally more special than anything off the shelf.
all kinds of things interest me, but those two methods fit a contemporary and a classic niche and they fit my workflow. I don't have time or space to offer 32 options.
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I probably have a different opinion than most on this site. I am a painter and most of my work is oil on linen canvas. Photos on canvas just don't work for me. Visually that is. It's not only my opinion but many artists. Presentation should always enhance the work not get in the way. Just saying.
Peter
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prints framed with a 6ply or more white mat
I've wondered about that versus double matting with thinner mat. Cost has pushed me to double matting. I need to try the really thick mats.
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my wholesale cost on a 6ply cotton mat is something like $7.80. my cost on a 4ply cotton mat is something like $4.90. 8ply is something like $9.90
not to be snide cause we all try to save where we can, but the cost of the mat of any thickness should be fairly irrelevant to your profit margin.
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Profit margin? I'll have to google that :)
I'm an amateur not a pro so I have not tried to sell my images, not yet anyway. At the retail level, say buying from American Frame, the cost of 8 ply versus 4 ply is something like 4:1 if I recall from the last time I looked.
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As only semi-pro, largely doing this for fun, I should probably recuse myself from opining. That said, one thing some of my small audience really do like is the Gatorfoam mounting and laminating method for large prints. My post-printing cost on a complete canvas is 12-16$ per square foot, and this permits large pieces to be hung without much fanfare or fear of breakage. Sometimes the images are turned into a poster-style piece that suits the presentation style pretty well, like the example shot by my wife Deanna below. I'm possibly discussing an orange, rather than the apple, Mike brought to his OP...
John Caldwell
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I don't have time or space to offer 32 options.
I feel the same way and offer canvas on large portraits, or, mat/framing or lamination/pro-texture spray on smaller 'wall' prints (up to 20x24).
What I was more interested in though, were thoughts on whether the trend may be shying away from 'Fine Art' canvas gallery wraps because of the over-abundance of gallery wraps at big-box and dollar stores. There are many of Peter's opinion that canvas just doesn't work on photography and I'm wondering if this is becoming more of an issue because of the over-abundance in the marketplace.
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The trend in the southwest is definitely shifting away from gallery wrapped photo canvases. I have always presented very simply framed, Gator mounted canvases with no mattes, no liners, no glazing. Wide frames, oh yeah! People love it and are thrilled to have such things over their sofas and beds and in their offices.
But the point is, whereas a year ago I was getting requests for gallery wraps, over the last three holiday shows nobody has even inquired! And not one moron has uttered "oh, a frame would diminish that piece" which is good because I swore I was going to punch out the first person who did that.
And don't ask me to apologize for photos on canvas. I make big photo canvases not to be copying painting, but rather for the same rationals as with paintings, which is to have a large, relatively manageable piece that participates directly in the location where it resides. Prissy little glazed over rectangles don't do that, no matter how many mattes they have.
PS Lowes has huge piles of cartons of 3x3 foot gallery wraps in their center aisles right now, near the Home Decor Dept. Pre-faded, pre-sagged, pre-ugly. The kind of stuff you find in $49.00 rooms in unpopular Vegas hotels. Doesn't help the genre. You can buy 4 bags of steer manure, 2 bags of Quickcrete, and a couple gallery wraps all in one trip!
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As Bill T pointed outin your other thread , scroll types presentations have been around for centuries.
I think that the commercial (scroll type) store displays are simply a cheaper and easier method of displaying advertising media that is usually seasonal or temporary. It is far easier,cost effective, and labor saving to remove and replace them, than putting the ads in frames, or gluing to walls. They should not be compared to fine art, but unfortunately people will associate it as similar.
I have been a custom framer for over 20 years, and call me old fashioned ,but I still prefer to see a good photograph in a matted frame that properly presents the art without overpowering it.
I do print many canvas wraps for customers, but the majority still request the time tested look of matting and framing.
David
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Scroll types presentations may look cheap, but I really like the look of Canon Roll-up Gloss Film itself. It gives specific, eye-catching opalescence, especially in vivid color prints. By any chance - did anyone try to face-mount it to acrylic?
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Czornyj,
Display film is the best stuff to use when face mounting IMHO.
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Is the Canon Roll-Up Film compatible with aqueous printers? A lot of media in the banner and commercial display category is intended for solvent printers.
Edit, you asked WHAT I use. A $3 paint roller, the cardboard core tube from a roll of canvas, and a cotton glove.
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Bill, are you saying that they're shying away from gallery wraps, but still purchasing canvas prints? So is it the 'wrap' that they're moving away from?
Personally, I like canvas prints, but thinking of going with a frame, something like yours Bill, rather than the wrap (no frame) style. So far though, I've only done paper prints myself (and canvas from my pro lab) and framed traditionally like David.
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Is the Canon Roll-Up Film compatible with aqueous printers? A lot of media in the banner and commercial display category is intended for solvent printers.
Canon doesn't even make solvent printers, so all Canon media are compatible with aqueous printers. I also wouldn't care about the results if I didn't try it on my iPF ;)
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Mike, for whatever reason the gallery wrap fad seems to have lost wind for my particular customers. Maybe it's because I finally figured out the right kind of moulding to use, or maybe it's because all my competitors at the shows are still doing wraps, and I somehow look classier or at least stand out with the frames. "Can you do it without a frame" has been replaced by "does that price include the frame? Wow!"
Whatever else, it's not much harder to mount the canvas on gator and build a simply moulding-only frame, as it is to gallery wrap, and the small extra effort commands a considerably higher price. And there are other things too...without having to allow for "wrapping wings" I can pretty easily make Gator mounted prints up to about 43" tall by 100" wide, which when framed gives me a jaw-dropping 51" x 108" piece as beloved by lawyers, architects, and boardroom designers. The profit margins for those babies are through the roof, for about the same amount of time and effort as for a primly matted, glazed, and framed 24 x 36 selling for 1/8 the price. And mounted canvas never sags. And if you do your own printing, mount your own canvas, and build your own frames, the per square foot cost of your finished product will be less than the cost of a decent, farmed out print only.
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Bill, what do you use to mount something that large?
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Print glued with Muck or LaminAll to 1/2" Gator. Although 3/16" Gator will do with wood bracing frame on the back, but that's too hard for one so work-adverse as me. For moulding with shallow rabbets the 1/2" Gator forces to use offset clips instead of Fletcher points, bummer.
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Bill, I assume you glue the entire surface? Does your canvas wrap around to the back of the board or do you trim it to the edge which would then be hidden in the frame?
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I mount the canvas with at least about 1/8" of canvas overhanging the Gator on all sides. Prevents glue from creeping up onto the surface of the canvas. Then I immediately trim off any excess canvas to the edge with a utility knife, otherwise there will be ripple problems along the edge. I glue the entire surface underneath the canvas, no Gator wrapped around the back or sides whatsoever. Very roughly about 0.08 ml of glue per square inch of glued surface, + a couple of ounces to prime the roller but only if it's dry. On a large piece the glued canvas + Gator will warp alarmingly for as long as 12 hours, but will wind up as flat as you could like. Don't freak out and try to counter mount something on the back during the warping phase, just lean it against the wall and have a good night's sleep.
Tonight's helpful hint...print a 3 or 4 pixel outline all around the print about 0.19" outside the image. Use the "File->Stroke..." feature. Very handy to have those lines as cutting guides when you trim the mounted canvas. You want the line to be a little more out there than the trim point, so you can see the line when you make the cut by callously laying your weighted straight edge on top of the coated print area. Canvas is delightfully forgiving!
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Print glued with Muck or LaminAll to 1/2" Gator. Although 3/16" Gator will do with wood bracing frame on the back, but that's too hard for one so work-adverse as me. For moulding with shallow rabbets the 1/2" Gator forces to use offset clips instead of Fletcher points, bummer.
Bill,
I had been using 1/2" gator for my larger work but was running into the small rabbet problem (1/2" depth) just like you.
Moved to the 3/8" product and that works really well. Price is similar,a couple of bucks less. $57.00 here in eastern Pa.
Don't you just love those small 1/4" x1/2" rabbets when working with a large pano.
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thanks for the explanation Bill. I'm going to try some in the new year once things settle down from the holidays.
cheers
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Yes those little rabbet holes are frustrating sometimes. I have one fabulous looking 4.25" moulding with a 3/8 rabbet and which is also a little too thin overall for its own good. But it looks even better than Peter Liks ugly 4" Tabacchino moulding. Naturally it's the one everybody wants, and of course I'll do anything for money. When using wimpy moulding I basically pick a Gator thickness sufficient to become the main structural element in the frame, then just sort of hang the frame on the art. The good news is that makes for huge pieces that can hang on the wall with nothing but a pair of triple pin hangers or molly bolts in the drywall, no stud location required.
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Tonight's helpful hint...print a 3 or 4 pixel outline all around the print about 0.19" outside the image. Use the "File->Stroke..." feature. Very handy to have those lines as cutting guides when you trim the mounted canvas. You want the line to be a little more out there than the trim point, so you can see the line when you make the cut by callously laying your weighted straight edge on top of the coated print area. Canvas is delightfully forgiving!
So you cut off the 1/8 inch overhang, and again cut, but this time print side up?
Brian A
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The 0.19" outline is intended for trimming the already mounted print for placement in a frame. It's just a convenience thing that saves some time.
When actually gluing down the print, just allow a generous amount of extra canvas that will go past the edge of the Gator and leave the 0.19" outline marks mounted on the gator, The purpose of that is to shield glue from being picked up onto the face of print, about 1/8" overhang is the minimum that does that properly. If you get glue on the face of the print, wipe if off IMMEDIATELY with moist paper towel.
Just after the print is glued down, trim off the excess canvas by running a utility knife along the edge of the gator, with the print face up. Be careful not to lift the knife too far and gouge the surface of the print. The purpose of this just-after-mounting trim is to get rid of dry canvas which would cause ripple at the edge of the glued, wet canvas during drying. Never lay the print face down on the work table because it will probably get contaminated with glue.
PS There are dozens of lengthy posts about gluing canvas on this forum!