Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs – and Large Sensor Photography => Topic started by: FredBGG on November 28, 2012, 01:12:54 am
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Recently discussing lenses with a couple of other photographers the German glass discussion came up.
One mentioned how he prefers the German glass such as Phase One Schneider over Japanese Glass.
I pointed out that the Phase One lenses have made in Japan and they are also made under the Mamiya Sekor name.
http://chubandigital.jp/download/Campaign2012_11.pdf
(http://www.fotolusio.jp/business/phaseone/img/img08.jpg)
There is this video on the Phase One website:
With this description:
"The making of LS lenses
Phase One and Schneider Kreuznach work closely to provide high quality lenses to the demanding
professional medium format photographers. Go behind the scenes and see how the leaf shutter lenses are made"
http://youtu.be/SESZUZKQvAE (http://youtu.be/SESZUZKQvAE)
No mention of Japan in the video...
In the video they mention Schneider buys the best glass. Hmmm who do they buy from... is their supplier German?
The Mamiya branded LS lenses are also less expensive than the Schneider/Phase One branded lenses.
In this Phase One video Adrian Weinbrecht goes on about the differences between "German glass" and Mamiya lenses.
http://youtu.be/SESZUZKQvAE (http://youtu.be/SESZUZKQvAE)
So where's the glass from?
Why are Mamiya LS lenses less expensive?
Lenses are labeled Lens Made In Japan...... so isn't that where they are made?
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Hello,
This is what is written on the B&H website.
The Mamiya Sekor 80mm f/2.8 LS D Lens is a leaf shutter, normal digital lens with a 35mm equivalent focal length of 50mm. This lens is designed by Schneider-Kreuznach and manufactured by Mamiya specifically for the 645DF camera. With 645DF series cameras, you can be assured that this lens will deliver superior high-resolution images that are required for commercial, product, portraiture, fine art and a wide variety of other professional applications.
With top flash sync speeds of up to 1/1600 second (depending upon digital back), this 80mm, like the other LS series lenses, allows for effective use of professional strobe equipment in even the brightest of conditions. The f/2.8 maximum aperture makes this lens also ideal for existing light photography.
Cheers
Simon
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OMG!! Another conspiracy theory! We've been had! Another misleading video! ::)
From someone who actually owns and uses Phase, Mamiya, Schneider, and Rodenstock lenses on a Phase One MFDB----I really don't care where the lenses are made. My personal and professional experience is that they work. They work very well. Now if child labor were involved and they slapped on a Nike or Walmart label, maybe we can talk conspiracy theory.... :o
I guess if it really really bothers you, you could refuse to buy or use those offending lenses. Oh, wait, never mind... :P
::)
So much negative energy here. Imagine the possibilities of moving forward in life with a simple smile. Move on. :)
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I agree with KD, they work, they are great, move on. We all know they are made by Mamiya in Japan, its no secret. If you don't want to pay the extra for a PhaseOne branded one, buy the Mamiya (***SPOILER*** they work the same)
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Only the high-end designs are made in Germany, it's simply a way for these manufacturers (same as Zeiss or Leica) to earn additional money by licensing their name for 3rd party products. No investments in design (although, some designs are SK-originated) or manufacturing needed. If this is actually a good idea? Well, if the price/performance-ratio is okay and certain standards are met (I guess the actual manufacturers here are capable of decent quality) I can personally live with it. But you shouldn't make the mistake to expect superior quality because of a brand. Actual design, material, manufacturing and testing standards make the difference.
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I think the LS lenses are good, but it's not a secret that they are overpriced.
Much because of the Schneider name they use. And they are not much better than
the non-Schneider lenses.
Thats just the way the makets work today. Not only in photography,
but more or less everywhere. If your brand is not respected enough,
rent anothers brand to sell "the same shit"..
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Hey Fred,
How's that home made 680 to D800 franken tilt shift coming along. You wrote earlier you'd share some photos of it. That would be much more interesting than another rehash.
Eric
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I have a bunch of LS lenses and always thought they were great and made in Germany. However, one day, one of the "made in Germany" labels peeled off, and holy cow, it says made in N.Korea by Army veterans. I guess they still work, so I will keep them for now -- but am talking to Schneider about getting some spare "made in Germany" stickers.
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Hi,
I'm not involved as I shoot neither Mamiya nor Schneider, but I can mention some thoughts about the issue anyway.
To begin with, I don't think lenses care about where they are made, nor do they care about where the glass they use is made.
Lenses care about the way they were designed and assembled and the way they are coated.
A bit related, but I tried to check out some of my lenses for Zeissness. I have set up a session with 5 different lenses around 70 mm on a Sony Alpha 77 SLT (24 MP APS-C camera).
The lenses were:
Minolta 80-200/2.8 APO
Sony 28-70/2.8 ZA (having Zeiss label, T* coating and Zeiss serial number and with a QC certificate signed by a Zeiss employee)
Sony 16-80/3.5-4.5ZA (having Zeiss label, T* coating and Zeiss serial number and with a QC certificate signed by a Zeiss employee)
Sony 70-300/3.5-4.5G
Sony 70-400/4.0-5.6G
Test subject was a pelargon and a small USAF test target. Also included was a slanted edge and a mini color checker. As far as I can recall f/5.6 was used for all and focus was in live view at highest magnification.
Once the five images were matched so white balance was set on the second brightest gray CC patch and exposure adjusted I was not able to tell the five images apart at actual pixels. I have not done MTF evaluation on the slanted edges yet.
This test was done near to the optical axis, so corner performance was not tested. But I wouldn't say that special Zeiss characteritics were obvious to me.
Best regards
Erik
Recently discussing lenses with a couple of other photographers the German glass discussion came up.
One mentioned how he prefers the German glass such as Phase One Schneider over Japanese Glass.
I pointed out that the Phase One lenses have made in Japan and they are also made under the Mamiya Sekor name.
http://chubandigital.jp/download/Campaign2012_11.pdf
(http://www.fotolusio.jp/business/phaseone/img/img08.jpg)
There is this video on the Phase One website:
With this description:
"The making of LS lenses
Phase One and Schneider Kreuznach work closely to provide high quality lenses to the demanding
professional medium format photographers. Go behind the scenes and see how the leaf shutter lenses are made"
http://youtu.be/SESZUZKQvAE (http://youtu.be/SESZUZKQvAE)
No mention of Japan in the video...
In the video they mention Schneider buys the best glass. Hmmm who do they buy from... is their supplier German?
The Mamiya branded LS lenses are also less expensive than the Schneider/Phase One branded lenses.
In this Phase One video Adrian Weinbrecht goes on about the differences between "German glass" and Mamiya lenses.
http://youtu.be/SESZUZKQvAE (http://youtu.be/SESZUZKQvAE)
So where's the glass from?
Why are Mamiya LS lenses less expensive?
Lenses are labeled Lens Made In Japan...... so isn't that where they are made?
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From someone who actually owns and uses Phase, Mamiya, Schneider, and Rodenstock lenses on a Phase One MFDB----I really don't care where the lenses are made. My personal and professional experience is that they work. They work very well.
First of all as many know I owned Phase and Mamiya.
Second lets look at an example of someone else that owned a Phase One "Schneider" LS lens. A fellow called Heiko.
He had a bad lens and made a comment about it being made on Japan.
He was attacked on the Phase one forum by Drew of Phase One and accused of making inaccurate comments about where the lenses
were made.
HEIKO121 wrote:
You claim that the leaf shutter will work over 100000 actuations and do not repair mine after only 4000?
kind of ridiculous isn´t it? And regarding to my new Nikon, there is a much bigger variety of lenses that you can carry with you and they do not cost a fortune. On top they do not cost fortunes for repairing them.
And they do not sell me "Schneider" lenses made in Japan.
Heiko,
Again, I apologize if there was a communication issue in regard to the repair policy of our hardware. If the 1 Year OR 100,000 Shutter Actuations (as outlined in the link above) was not clear at the time of your purchase then I can only now apologize and as you have sold your products I cannot offer anything further. As your lens was well over the 1 year term of the warranty, there was no coverage for your repair at the time of service but any cost certainly could have been evaluated after the repair was performed if you found it unsatisfactory. Again, as the equipment has been sold I cannot offer any further assistance in this regard.
As there seem to be some discrepancies listed in the forum regarding the cost of our repairs, services provide by Phase One, the shutter count you believe the lens to have had and the location of our hardware production I would kindly ask that you refrain from further posts on our forum as they do not seem to lend themselves to a constructive discussion.
I am again sorry if there was any confusion or misinformation regarding all the aspects listed above. I wish you luck with your Nikon system.
Kind Regards,
Drew
Phase One
I find it both sad and rather funny that this Drew fellow apologizes for misinformation while including some fresh misinformation in the very same post.
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Last Comment: Not everyone is in the PR department and fact checks everything and the confers with the legal department before posting on the internet.
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I agree with KD, they work, they are great, move on.
Actually they don't work that great.... many people have issues with leaf shutters and have had issues regarding service:
Can anybody tell me what is the sign that I need to change the lens or send it to be repaired? the shutter stopped working today and I'm really frostraited about it!
Thanks!
http://forum.phaseone.com/En/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=11964&start=0&st=0&sk=t&sd=a (http://forum.phaseone.com/En/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=11964&start=0&st=0&sk=t&sd=a)
http://forum.phaseone.com/En/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=11088&start=0&st=0&sk=t&sd=a (http://forum.phaseone.com/En/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=11088&start=0&st=0&sk=t&sd=a)
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Last Comment: Not everyone is in the PR department and fact checks everything and the confers with the legal department before posting on the internet.
So you think it's OK to accuse a customer with a broken product of theirs of lying when he says the lens was Made in Japan.
Maybe they should put more effort into making the LS shutter more reliable.
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Hey Fred,
How's that home made 680 to D800 franken tilt shift coming along. You wrote earlier you'd share some photos of it. That would be much more interesting than another rehash.
Eric
It's become a wee bit more than home made. I will be going to a friends machine shot to make a part... should be fun... he makes parts for JPL and worked on the Mars rovers.
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I'm also working on a compact hack to make an electronic finder and focus assist for my 8x10.
We are trying to use a compact sony as an electronic viewfinder for my 8x10 and hacking the software to extract focus distance values.
The compact will sit ontop of the 8x10 lens. The monitor will be a Samsung Note and the app will give the assistant/photographer
bellows extension values. This is for a portrait project of mine using paper negatives. The face recognition in the compact will make things work nicely.
I'm also designing the app to adjust paralax based on the focus so as to give accurate framing.
I may be handing this off to Fuji as they have shown some interest in it.
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Fred,
A little bored today? It seems your hobby is sturing up senseless acrimony. Perhaps you should try a different hobby, like photography. Might I suggest you put down the keyboard and go out and take some pictures:)
Yours truly...
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+1
I am getting tired of the endless troll posting as well.
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Tired of Fred; how can that be?
Keep up the good work, Fred. Inquiring minds want to know all this good stuff.
Go Fuji.
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Some find the discussion worth discussing. Personally I do.
I also would like to add that I have often spoken highly of Mamiya lenses.
I think that many would agree with me that the all Mamiya made 150mm 2.8 IF is the finest
MF SLR lens ever made.
I also find that there is too much hype around the german glass myth.
I think the fine Japanese craftsmen deserve more credit than the get.
Phase One certainly left them out of their how they are made video.... ;)
Oh and buy the way my family is from Stuttgart in Germany
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Some find the discussion worth discussing. Personally I do.
I also would like to add that I have often spoken highly of Mamiya lenses
Not me, especially since this topic has been hashed through the forums multiple times in the past. You should search before you post.
And btw - forget the 150, the rollei schneider 90mm apo macro is the best MF lens ever.
Here's what I do want to discuss:
Fred, I saw an AE lupe style finder for the 680. Can you tell me if that works with the 680 III or just the first two versions?
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Not me, especially since this topic has been hashed through the forums multiple times in the past. You should search before you post.
And btw - forget the 150, the rollei schneider 90mm apo macro is the best MF lens ever.
Here's what I do want to discuss:
Fred, I saw an AE lupe style finder for the 680. Can you tell me if that works with the 680 III or just the first two versions?
Regarding the Fuji GX680 AE loup finder:
I know for a fact that it works with the version I camera.
I have heard that it works with the version II camera, but I have not tried myself.
It will fit on the GX680, but will not work due to a different contact layout.
However I do not recommend it for a couple of reasons.
First it does not show you speed or aperture settings in the viewfinder. It does show them on the top of the finder, but not in the finder when looking at the image
on the screen.
Second because it uses a semi silvered mirror to send light to the meter sensor. As a result it is not a nice bright finder.
There is another AE finder. The AE angle finder III.
While it is the best prism viewing I have ever used... bright and huge... the AE side of things is limited too.
No info in the finder... It's on the side... No indication of exposure or setting inside the angle finder.
It's very rare and expensive if you find one. I had to pay more than the new price for my second one.
(http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6091/6242494779_e6cf765002_z.jpg)
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Thanks Fred for the 680 info. If you see one come up for sale....
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Not me, especially since this topic has been hashed through the forums multiple times in the past. You should search before you post.
I did search, but did not find anything definitive and actually not much from Phase, Leaf or the dealers.
Due to your suggestion I did another search and came across this interesting stuff on the Japanese Mamiya website:
English is from the English pages on the Japanese site.
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8209/8227433903_fd34e39fab_o.jpg)
larger text
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8200/8227451495_bd1db7a5bd_o.jpg)
It says approved by Schnieder... no mention of Schneider designing it.
Here is the Japanese page. Slightly different wording, but same thing.
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8206/8227433857_d993b33ac6_b.jpg)
and here there is no mention of Schneider
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8340/8227433777_2601497047_o.jpg)
larger text
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8200/8227451495_bd1db7a5bd_o.jpg)
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I always thought Schneider designed the leaf shutters. I'm sure there must have been consultation between Mamiya and Schneider during the design stage of optically incorporating a large LS into the traditional Mamiya lenses and is probably where the marketing BS get the Schneider design from.
However, I for one have never thought the lenses were built by Schneider in Germany and if anyone does (Fred), they must be pretty gullible.
Anyway who cares, Phase versions of mamiya lenses have always costed more and is to be expected that Schneider versions with leaf shutters would cost even more. Are they worth the extra is very debatable but that depends on the individual IMO.
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I always thought Schneider designed the leaf shutters. I'm sure there must have been consultation between Mamiya and Schneider during the design stage of optically incorporating a large LS into the traditional Mamiya lenses and is probably where the marketing BS get the Schneider design from.
However, I for one have never thought the lenses were built by Schneider in Germany and if anyone does (Fred), they must be pretty gullible.
Anyway who cares, Phase versions of mamiya lenses have always costed more and is to be expected that Schneider versions with leaf shutters would cost even more. Are they worth the extra is very debatable but that depends on the individual IMO.
Actually I didn't the LS lenses were made or designed by Schneider, because the first one to be seen with an LS shutter were announced 2008/09/16 about a year before the Schneider agreement was even announced in Sept. 28, 2009
The first LS announcement by Mamiya also stated that the shutter was designed in house. What is also interesting is that it was designed for the AFD III. Compatible with "645AFDII & III, ZD camera".
http://www.mamiya.co.jp/news_mdinr08090015_eng.html (http://www.mamiya.co.jp/news_mdinr08090015_eng.html)
Photokina 2008
Interchangeable Lenses for Use with Mamiya ZD and Mamiya 645AFDIII
Mamiya Sekor AF 80mm F2.8 D/LS
Mamiya Sekor AF 45mm F2.8 D
2008/09/16
Mamiya Digital Imaging is pleased to announce at Photokina 2008 two new interchangeable lenses, the Mamiya Sekor AF 80mm F2.8 D/LS lens, and Mamiya Sekor AF 45mm D lens, the latest additions to our Sekor D range. These lenses can be used in conjunction with our 22 megapixel single lens reflex camera, the Mamiya ZD, or with models of our 6 x 4.5 format cameras, the 645AFDIII or AFDII. The lenses are designed for professional use and sure to be highly valued by professional photographers globally.
The lenses will be on display from the 23rd of September at the Mamiya booth. Come down for a sneak preview!
Mamiya Sekor AF 80mm F2.8 D L/S (Prototype)
# Features
The Mamiya Sekor AF 80mm F2.8 D L/S will be the first leaf shutter lens in Mamiya’s AF lens lineup.
The leaf shutter, which has been developed and manufactured in-house, is capable of shutter speeds from 1/800 second to 16 seconds, and has flash synchronization at all speeds. It allows more control for shooting during the day on location where daylight flash synchronization is required as well as for flash photography in studios. It has also been designed for easy and simple operation when used with the focal-plane shutter system of the 645AFDIII.
The lens has an angle of view of 47 degrees in the 6 x 4.5 format, the equivalent of a 50mm lens in the 35mm format.
As the occurrence of aberration is minimal and balance is of high quality, natural depictions are effectively portrayed. Switching between manual and auto focusing is achieved by simply moving the focusing ring back and forward.
Compatible cameras: 645AFDII & III, ZD camera
Optical construction: 6 elements 5 groups
Angle of view: 47°
Minimum aperture: 22
Minimum focusing distance: 70cm
Maximum magnification ratio: 0.15
Area covered: 377 x 279mm
Equivalent focal length for 35mm: 50mm
Filter size: 72mm
Lens hood: Bayonet type
Dimensions: 51.5 x 80.5mm
Weight: 330g
Shutter speed: 1/800-16 seconds
Flash sync: Full speed synchronization
Focal length when attached to the Mamiya ZD: 93mm for the 645 format
(equivalent to 58mm in the 35mm format)
Date of first sales: To be announced
Price: To be announced
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Then what are you asking??
If the lens says "Made in Japan", why would it be made in Germany??
Is it me or do you answer all your own questions??
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I always thought Schneider designed the leaf shutters. I'm sure there must have been consultation between Mamiya and Schneider during the design stage of optically incorporating a large LS into the traditional Mamiya lenses and is probably where the marketing BS get the Schneider design from.
However, I for one have never thought the lenses were built by Schneider in Germany and if anyone does (Fred), they must be pretty gullible.
Anyway who cares, Phase versions of mamiya lenses have always costed more and is to be expected that Schneider versions with leaf shutters would cost even more. Are they worth the extra is very debatable but that depends on the individual IMO.
Just for clarity sake - and I am speaking only of the USA here - Phase One and Mamiya branded versions of the same lens cost the exact same thing. Ditto for Schneider branded lenses, there is no difference in price whether they are distributed through Mamiya America Corporation or through Phase One USA.
In my experience, I have generally found the Phase One/Mamiya D lenses to be slightly higher resolving than the Mamiya AF lenses, and the same for the Schneider branded versions. More or less (except for a very few instances, like the 150mm), to a small degree (which may be a critical difference for some). And in all cases, chromatic aberrations are reduced, at least when compared to the Mamiya AF versions.
As a result, you could consider the Mamiya MF and AF glass a bargain, by comparison. Whether the new lenses are "overpriced" is for the market to decide. If they sell in good numbers, they are not overpriced. If they do not, they are. Anything else is only your own personal opinion on whether the price is worth it to you. Whether you're compelled optically, the new lenses offer extended warranties or high speed Leaf Shutters, and the value for these features is encompassed within the new pricing, as well as any optical improvements. The market decides.
Whenever the topic of Schneider branded lenses comes up, "who makes the glass?" always seems to be the question. I would pose that the design of the lenses themselves, as well as the relative positioning, spacing, and angle pitch of the optics is the more critical question, and in that case, Schneider handles that part of the equation, all of the design, calculations, and measurements. If you don't believe that, then you're telling me the Schneider Product Manager is lying to me.
I think if it means so much to someone to know, that they should take the opportunity to tour each facility and satisfy their own curiosity.
Steve Hendrix
Capture Integration
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Then what are you asking??
If the lens says "Made in Japan", why would it be made in Germany??
Is it me or do you answer all your own questions??
Various videos on the Phase One website and you tube account babbling on about German Glass... like this one are a bit confusing:
http://youtu.be/SESZUZKQvAE (http://youtu.be/SESZUZKQvAE)
and Phase One has a video on it's website with the following description:
"The making of LS lenses
Phase One and Schneider Kreuznach work closely to provide high quality lenses to the demanding professional medium format photographers.
Go behind the scenes and see how the leaf shutter lenses are made"
and the video at the Schneider plant never mentions Japan or shows any LS lenses being made.
The only lens you see in the shop is the Schneider Tilt Shift lens that is a Schneider product with a Mamiya mount and it's not a leaf shutter lens.
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Just for clarity sake - and I am speaking only of the USA here - Phase One and Mamiya branded versions of the same lens cost the exact same thing. Ditto for Schneider branded lenses, there is no difference in price whether they are distributed through Mamiya America Corporation or through Phase One USA.
Steve Hendrix
Capture Integration
Hmm
"Phase One and Mamiya branded versions of the same lens cost the exact same thing" Nope...
Mamiya Sekor 110mm f/2.8 LS D Lens for 645DF (only) Series Cameras $4,490.00 BH Photo
Mamiya Sekor AF 110mm f/2.8 LS D Lens for DM-33/56 DSLR Cameras $4,490.00 Adorama
PHASE ONE - SCHNEIDER KREUZNACH AF 110MM F2.8 LEAF SHUTTER LENS PRICE: $4,790.00 Samy's
Phase One Schneider 110mm f/2.8 LS AF Lens $4,790.00 Calumet
Phase One Schneider 110mm f/2.8 LS AF Lens $4,790 Digital transitions
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"Phase One and Mamiya branded versions of the same lens cost the exact same thing" Nope...
You are trying to compare a Mamiya/Phase 150 mm lens to a Schneider 150 mm lens...two different animals. What Steve said holds, a Mamiya branded Sekor lens and a Phase One branded Sekor lens should retail for a very similar prince...the Schneider lens has a leaf shutter, the Sekor lens does not.
BTW, as far as I know, B&H and Adorama are not even Phase One dealers...so can't even sell the Phase One branded Mamiya lens nor the Schneider...
Actually, I checked and Calumet is selling the Phase One AF 150mm f/2.8 IF Lens for $3,490 a (same'ish as the Mamiya) and the Phase One Schneider 150mm f/3.5 LS Auto Focus Lens (a totally different lens) for $4,990.
Edit...ooops, I noticed you were talking about a 110mm lens...seems Phase One doesn't even offer a Phase One branded lens but you could use the Mamiya branded lens on a Phase One camera.
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Edit...ooops, I noticed you were talking about a 110mm lens...seems Phase One doesn't even offer a Phase One branded lens but you could use the Mamiya branded lens on a Phase One camera.
Yes they do:
(http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/attachments/gear-fs-wtb/56665d1333050634-sale-phase-one-schneider-kreuznach-ls-110mm-f2-8-af-lens-img_0857.jpg)
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Hmm
"Phase One and Mamiya branded versions of the same lens cost the exact same thing" Nope...
Mamiya Sekor 110mm f/2.8 LS D Lens for 645DF (only) Series Cameras $4,490.00 BH Photo
Mamiya Sekor AF 110mm f/2.8 LS D Lens for DM-33/56 DSLR Cameras $4,490.00 Adorama
PHASE ONE - SCHNEIDER KREUZNACH AF 110MM F2.8 LEAF SHUTTER LENS PRICE: $4,790.00 Samy's
Phase One Schneider 110mm f/2.8 LS AF Lens $4,790.00 Calumet
Phase One Schneider 110mm f/2.8 LS AF Lens $4,790 Digital transitions
Fred -
You've validated my statement although you've misunderstood my point.
The same "D" Lens, whether it is branded Mamiya or Phase One - costs the same (in the USA). The same Schneider LS lens (whether it also carries an additional Mamiya/Phase branding, and regardless of whether it is imported and distributed in the USA via Mamiya America or Phase One USA), also costs the same amount (not as the Mamiya D lenses - not what I was stating). Of course the Schneider LS lenses cost more than the "D" lenses. That wasn't the point. You made the statement that the "Mamiya branded LS lenses were less expensive than the Phase One/Schneider branded lenses. This is false - as you just proved yourself with your last response.
Steve Hendrix
Capture Integration
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Fred -
You've validated my statement although you've misunderstood my point.
The same "D" Lens, whether it is branded Mamiya or Phase One - costs the same (in the USA). The same Schneider LS lens (whether it also carries an additional Mamiya/Phase branding, and regardless of whether it is imported and distributed in the USA via Mamiya America or Phase One USA), also costs the same amount (not as the Mamiya D lenses - not what I was stating). Of course the Schneider LS lenses cost more than the "D" lenses. That wasn't the point. You made the statement that the "Mamiya branded LS lenses were less expensive than the Phase One/Schneider branded lenses. This is false - as you just proved yourself with your last response.
Steve Hendrix
Capture Integration
The prices I listed are for LS lenses. Both identical models except for the branding. Read the post again.... sloooowly ;)
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The same "D" Lens, whether it is branded Mamiya or Phase One - costs the same (in the USA).
Steve Hendrix
Capture Integration
You are wrong here too.
Mamiya Normal 80mm f/2.8 Autofocus "D" Lens for 645AF $1,490.00 B+H Photo
Phase One 80mm f/2.8 AF D Lens $1,590.00 Calumet
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The prices I listed are for LS lenses. Both identical models except for the branding. Read the post again.... sloooowly ;)
You can be forgiven for not knowing this, but both the the Mamiya/Schneider and Phase One/Schneider branded lenses have had a price increase in this year. It is not surprising that the two "fulfillment-oriented" companies - who do not sell Phase One, by the way - have either neglected or decided not to adjust their pricing to reflect the new higher pricing. This is commonplace for B&H/Adorama. I can tell you that the dealer pricing as well as the proposed list pricing is the same for both Mamiya/Schneider and Phase One/Schneider lenses.
I am only hoping beyond hope that you don't somehow find yet more energy - which truly would be better spent dedicated to producing some more of those wonderful images you show - on disregarding the truth of the matter so as to reinforce whatever critically important and relevant position you were attempting to declare on....whatever it is....that seems so important to you. And I further hope that in your reckless pursuit of of the clearly elusive resolution of your itch, that you somehow find it within yourself to spare those who would be caught up in the wake of your um, journey. I don't feel confident that mercy and selflessness are within you, however.
I don't mind spending time to correct misinformation if it has been produced innocently. But no, I do not appreciate the need to spend time correcting misinformation that is spread willfully and recklessly. And your attempt and desires to do so are a disservice to the other members of this forum, IMO.
Steve Hendrix
Capture Integration
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Yes they do:
No, they don't...the image you showed is a Phase One branded "Schneider" lens...what part os the Schneider lens don't you understand? The Phase One/Mamiya lenses (without leaf shutter) are different lenses than the Phase One Schneider lenses with a leaf shutter. Fact is, Phase One doesn't even offer a 110mm lens that isn't Schneider and Mamiya doesn't offer a Schneider 110mm version with a leaf shutter.
As far as different retailers selling the same thing for different prices, why are you surprised? B&H routinely sells stuff for less than Calumet and note, B&H can't even sell Phase One branded anything because they aren't a dealer and Calumet lists only the Mamiya 110 lens for the RZ, not the 645 camera. Apple & oranges bud...
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Agree. One needs to remember Phase One owns three brands . Leaf, Mamiya and Phase One which are branded for different markets. Only Phase One dealers can sell Phase One branded products. B&H sells only Mamiya branded lenses distributed I think still by the MAC group. Companies like Capture integration. Digital transitions, Bear Imaging and Calumet and a few others can only sell the Phase brand. These companies offer full support of the product line. B&h sells Mamiya and offers Zero, Zlitch support for Mamiya they are a discount t house which has different pricing and offers no service support on ANY brand. Completely different animals. Now change of subject buy a Hassy from B&H and ask for service support. You want to get laughed at just ask them. I buy all my Phase gear from CI and DT as well and I get total sales, service and repair not to mention complete care and advice from these folks. Now tell me why the hell would I buy anywhere else when it comes to Phase One products that is what I am paying for. That comes at some costs not to mention Phase one lenses come with a longer warranty if I'm not mistaken
Fred I will be kind here and offer a bit of advice as a working Pro. You are seriously killing any credibility you have with this constant trolling towards Phase. I own a forum and been on them for years . Trust me I am offering you a friendly piece of advice. You may want to seriously consider your reputation on several levels. Someone needs to actually say this. Take it in the spirit is given. I will not respond further to this thread as it is just feeding negatively to a company I admire and have owned a lot of there products.
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As said before my sales of my gear where of a very serious personal nature , has nothing to do with photography and since your really a ass on this one. How's this my wife has 2 primary cancers. Is that fucking good enough for ya. Fred once again I banned you from GetDPI for exactly this same misinformed comments and spreading rumors. I suggest the owners and mods do the same.
Phase one does not advertise on GetDPI at all and makes no money from the forum from them. Jack and I are both PODAS instructors though but that is as individuals. Those are facts you can actually use.
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As said before my sales of my gear where of a very serious personal nature , has nothing to do with photography and since your really a ass on this one. How's this my wife has 2 primary cancers. Is that fucking good enough for ya. Fred once again I banned you from GetDPI for exactly this same misinformed comments and spreading rumors. I suggest the owners and mods do the same.
Very sorry to hear that, but I remember at the time when you sold the Phase One DF it was to go to 35mm and tech cam combination. A bit like my choice at the same time of going with 35mm DSLR and MF film.
That was what I was referring to.
http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/gear-fs-wtb/34817-sold-phase-one-df-kit-lenses-accessories.html (http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/gear-fs-wtb/34817-sold-phase-one-df-kit-lenses-accessories.html)
I wish your wife the very best. There has been Cancer in my family too. My wife's best friend just beat it too. Best of luck to you both!
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Hey all I did was quote the published prices of authorized dealers that include Adorama and B+H.
But, neither Adorama nor B+H are authorized Phase One dealers (unless somebody bribed somebody some where). Again apples and oranges...by thins point you should "get it", right? If you don't, then something else is going on...right?
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But, neither Adorama nor B+H are authorized Phase One dealers (unless somebody bribed somebody some where). Again apples and oranges...by thins point you should "get it", right? If you don't, then something else is going on...right?
They are both Mamiya Leaf dealers and I quoted their published Mamiya Leaf prices....
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http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/gear-fs-wtb/34817-sold-phase-one-df-kit-lenses-accessories.html (http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/gear-fs-wtb/34817-sold-phase-one-df-kit-lenses-accessories.html)
I wish your wife the very best. There has been Cancer in my family too. My wife's best friend just beat it too. Best of luck to you both!
The link is dead now. Please do not ban Fred from this. He is very informative. I am a MFB user but I always like to hear about DSLR.
Kitty
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mhm, I've got the LS lenzes, labeled shneider. - And my equipment is used everyday all day -
- Phase one DB's are absolutely perfect
BUT
- After some time of use of the Shneider LS lenses, i though, what a Poor build quality for a "german" lens, that plastic focus ring and/or switch to AF-MF is realy not that well build, if you compare with 30 year old Hassy lenses wich are SPOT on perfect, precize, no feeling of :" it can break appart at any moment".
- Also the Phase/Mamiya Body isn't that trust worthy, i can't get out to shoot without being scared it breaks... Just the clumbsy feeling of the body, don't trust it at all, like i could trust my old Hasselblad 500...
IF
I thus changed to some thing more "thrust worthy" for most things, and bought a Rm3di, with the " real " shneiders , and immidiatly you see the quality difference of these lenses compaired to the Phase Shneider LS lenses.. at more or less the same cost..
On the one hand, they are sharper, they give more image for the same buck, and the build quality is waaaaayyyyyy better..
So dunno, i am thinkin still to change my M645 phase one, for ah Hasselblad V version and go back to Hassies ..
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The link is dead now. Please do not ban Fred from this. He is very informative. I am a MFB user but I always like to hear about DSLR.
Kitty
Yup it's been deleted. Link worked earlier today.....
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And don't even talk about the 28 mm Mamiya lens, seriously, that one is real shit build quality..
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And don't even talk about the 28 mm Mamiya lens, seriously, that one is real shit build quality..
I saw an youtube video an german photographer photos architecture said the new Schneider 28 mm on DF body is the best lens.
May be it is the difference one. So many lens version now.
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Enough already. Please move on.
Topic Locked
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My suggestion is that people voluntarily back off this topic as it seems to have run its course. Otherwise I'll close it.
Michael