Luminous Landscape Forum

Raw & Post Processing, Printing => Printing: Printers, Papers and Inks => Topic started by: Schewe on November 20, 2012, 01:26:48 am

Title: The Digital Print
Post by: Schewe on November 20, 2012, 01:26:48 am
Folks...

working on the TOC for the next book in the series; The Digital Print...

This is preliminary and subject to change, but I thought it would be useful to get the feedback of interested parties (meaning you all on LuLa).

The relative page count is subject to change as I write and note that I can't cover EVEREYTHING everybody thinks may be important. I've got a limited page count ya know...sorry for the potential formatting issues...LuLa doesn't seem to like tabbed text layouts :-(

So,...to quote Pat Benatar (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pat_Benatar), Hit me with your best shot (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hit_Me_with_Your_Best_Shot)...

:~)


The Digital Print
Preparing Images in Lightroom and Photoshop For Printing
By Jeff Schewe
Preliminary Table Of Contents
Based on 288 editorial pages

Front Matter: Including TOC (12 pages)
Intro: (3 pages)

Chapter 1: A Digital Printer Primer (22 pages)
                       A brief history of digital printing
                       Types of digital printers
                                    Inkjet
                                         Thermal vs Piezoelectric print heads
                                         Pigment vs Dye inks
                                    Dye sublimation
                                    Chromogenic
                                    Halftone
                        Picking a printer
                                    Consumer grade
                                    Professional grade
                                    Printing in-house vs a service bureau or
                                    photo lab
 
Chapter 2: Color Management (52 pages)
                        The basics of color management
                                    What is a color profile?
                                    What is a Working Space?
                                    What is a Rendering Intent?
                                    What is a color management module (CMM)
                        Color management for displays
                                    Calibration
                                    Characterization
                                    Profile generation
                        Color management for printers
                                    Calibration
                                    Characterization
                                    Profile generation
                        Color management in Photoshop
                        Color management in Lightroom
 
Chapter 3: Preparing Images for Printing (70 pages)
                        Soft Proofing
                                    Soft Proofing vs Gamut Warning
                                    Soft Proofing in Photoshop
                                    Soft Proofing in Lightroom
                        Tone and color optimization
                                    In Photoshop
                                    In Lightroom
                        Image sharpening and noise reduction
                                    A sharpening workflow
                                                Capture sharpening
                                                Creative sharpening
                                                Output sharpening
                        Image and output resolution
                                    How much is enough resolution
                                    Image vs printer resolution
                                    Image interpolation
                                                Upsampling
                                                Downsampling
                        Preparing an image for B&W printing
                        Preparing an image for 3rd party printing by a service bureau or photo lab
                        Preparing images for halftone reproduction
                        Preparing images for media devices
 
Chapter 4: Making the Print (60 pages)
                Printing from Photoshop
                            The Print dialog window
                                    Setting up for printing on Mac
                                    Setting up for printing on Windows
                            Printing from a printer plug-in
                Printing from Lightroom
                                The Print module (right panel)
                                        Layout Style
                                        Single Image/Contact Sheet
                                        Picture Package
                                        Custom Package
                                        Image Settings
                                        Layout
                                        Guides
                                        Page
                                        Print Job
                                The Print module (left panel)
                                        Preview
                                        Template Browser
                                        Collections
                                                Unsaved Print
                                                Create Saved Print
                    Print Settings on Mac
                    Print Settings on Windows
                    Printing a B&W image
 
Chapter 5: Attributes of a Perfect Print (48 pages)
                    What is a “Perfect Print”?
                                    Print viewing environment
                                                How to judge the tone and
                                                color of a print
                                                How to judge the detail of a
                                                print
                                    Digital print artifacts
                                                Gloss differential
                                                Metameric failure
                                                Bronzing
                                                Pixilation (lack of
                                                resolution)
                        Print substrates (paper/media)
                                    Photo Papers
                                                Glossy paper
                                                Matte paper
                                    Canvas
                                    Alternative substrates
                                    Picking the right paper for the image
                                    Determining the contrast range of a print
                        Print finishing
                                    Coatings
                                    Matting
                                    Framing
                        Print presentation
                                    Portfolios and bindings
                                    Folios
                        Lighting and displaying the framed print
                        Print storage
                        Print longevity
                                    Impact of OBA's
                                    Acid Free vs. buffered PH neutrality
                                    Environmental factors

Chapter 6: Developing a Printing Workflow (30 pages)
                        When to print in Photoshop vs Lightroom
                                    Photoshop print workflow
                                    Lightroom print workflow
                                    Combining Lightroom and Photoshop print
                                    workflows
                          Jeff’s print workflow
                          Using 3rd party RIPs
                   
Back Matter (Index 15 pages)
Title: Re: The Digital Print
Post by: Onslow on November 20, 2012, 02:48:03 am
I've seen a few things I wanted but then on re-reading it, you have them covered. May I ask the anticipated publication date?

I look forward to purchasing this...
Title: Re: The Digital Print
Post by: Ernst Dinkla on November 20, 2012, 03:39:15 am

                        Color management in Photoshop
                        Color management in Lightroom

                                    Soft Proofing in Photoshop
                                    Soft Proofing in Lightroom
                        Tone and color optimization
                                    In Photoshop
                                    In Lightroom
     
                Printing from Lightroom
                                The Print module (right panel)
                        Print longevity
                                    Impact of OBA's
                                    Acid Free vs. buffered PH neutrality
                                    Environmental factors

Chapter 6: Developing a Printing Workflow (30 pages)
                        When to print in Photoshop vs Lightroom
                                    Photoshop print workflow
                                    Lightroom print workflow
                                    Combining Lightroom and Photoshop print
                                    workflows

                          Using 3rd party RIPs
                   

Although it is not a RIP, is Qimage Ultimate covered in that last chapter or could you add it anywhere where Lightroom gets its explanations? The new DFS, Deep Focus Sharpening, is an interesting option in that program too.

On print longevity are there references to Aardenburg-Imaging, etc so people know where to look for paper properties and fade test results? Mark has some excellent articles on his website.


--
Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
470+ inkjet paper white spectral plots, November 2012:
rearranged categories, Sihl Masterclass papers following soon




Title: Re: The Digital Print
Post by: Tony Jay on November 20, 2012, 03:50:24 am
Looks pretty comprehansive to me.
Already drooling in anticipation - disgustingly Pavlovian of me I know - but I can't help it.

Tony Jay
Title: Re: The Digital Print
Post by: Adam L on November 20, 2012, 07:38:28 am
Will there be a chapter on the Epson advanced B&W process?  That would be helpful to me.
Title: Re: The Digital Print
Post by: Eric Myrvaagnes on November 20, 2012, 08:51:00 am
The topic list looks great. The additional suggestions made so far seem worthy, too.
Don't rush it, as I'm just into Chapter 3 of the Digital Negative, which is the first photo technical book I've seen in years that is in the same quality league as Ansel's Basic Photo Series. Saint Ansel would approve.
Title: Re: The Digital Print
Post by: bjanes on November 20, 2012, 09:17:37 am
Jeff,

The outline appears excellent and I am looking forward to the finished product. The separation of topics in the negative and print stage was much clearer in Adams' day. He could achieve global optimization through exposure and development, but local corrections had to be made at the print stage. With digital, local adjustments can be made in Photoshop and to some degree in Lightroom, and some of these topics are covered in the Digital Negative book. However, much of the art of the print is in rendering tone and color into the relatively narrow gamut of the print as discussed by Karl Lang in his Adobe white paper (http://wwwimages.adobe.com/www.adobe.com/products/photoshop/family/prophotographer/pdfs/pscs3_renderprint.pdf).

I presume that this topic will be covered in Chapter 3 under tone and color, and I would like to see an expanded discussion of these topics along the lines of Karl's white paper. I know that you don't like HDR, but feel that this topic should be addressed.

Regards,

Bill
Title: Re: The Digital Print
Post by: Damir on November 20, 2012, 06:24:51 pm
It is difficult to say just from TOC how will address some topics but what I miss from all books about printing and color management is deeper insight in some facts like what is .oms file, what information you need beside icc profile for optimal print, what is linearization and how to perform it, how to detect ink limit, how to set up printer for various paper thickness, how to test all that and how to change it and optimize if you find that result is not as good as it can be.

There are lots of topic in this forum that are here because no one ever write about them in a book, like difference in measurement and real life perception in gloss and matt paper maximum black or DMax, general difference in gloss and matte surface and paper characteristic like ink comsuption, scratch resistance, media handling.

Than de-rolling of print and storing finished prints. Especially how to handle big prints.

I know that it may be too much for a single book, but most of the books so far are how to navigate through the menus, which is not enough.

Best wishes with a book.
Title: Re: The Digital Print
Post by: KeithR on November 20, 2012, 06:28:50 pm
Will there be a chapter on the Epson advanced B&W process?  That would be helpful to me.
At the bottom of chapter 4 is listed "Printing a B&W image". I'm sure that Mr. Schewe will include the ABW workflow at this time.
Title: Re: The Digital Print
Post by: hugowolf on November 20, 2012, 08:51:12 pm
Wow, a 15 page index, that is old school, and just great.

I would like to see a description of how each of the rendering intents work, particularly perceptual and relative colrimetric and especially covering the differences when there are no colors out of gamut compared to when there are out of gamut areas, I really don't think it is covered well anywhere.

Brian A
Title: Re: The Digital Print
Post by: Schewe on November 20, 2012, 09:13:02 pm
Although it is not a RIP, is Qimage Ultimate covered in that last chapter or could you add it anywhere where Lightroom gets its explanations? The new DFS, Deep Focus Sharpening, is an interesting option in that program too.

On print longevity are there references to Aardenburg-Imaging, etc so people know where to look for paper properties and fade test results? Mark has some excellent articles on his website.

Yes to both questions...but Qimage will only get slight coverage because, well, I don't do Windows :~) I plan on getting a copy and running it in Parallels to talk about the options. With regards to longevity discussion, I'll point to both Aardenburg-Imaging as well as Wilhelm Imaging Research...I may point out some of the differences in the ratings but I doubt I'll get too deep into the nitty-gritty details...
Title: Re: The Digital Print
Post by: Schewe on November 20, 2012, 09:13:28 pm
May I ask the anticipated publication date?


Due April 2013...
Title: Re: The Digital Print
Post by: Schewe on November 20, 2012, 09:15:25 pm
Will there be a chapter on the Epson advanced B&W process?

Not a chapter, but definitely a section. I'll also cover a bit about the QuadToneRIP and B&W. I won't be covering (but will mention) Piezography.
Title: Re: The Digital Print
Post by: Schewe on November 20, 2012, 09:21:35 pm
I presume that this topic will be covered in Chapter 3 under tone and color, and I would like to see an expanded discussion of these topics along the lines of Karl's white paper. I know that you don't like HDR, but feel that this topic should be addressed.

Karl actually wrote that paper for me under contract to Adobe (and I had to help edit a tiny bit and keep pushing him to get it done :~) so I'm familiar with the topics...It's not that I don't like HDR, I do, what I don't like are HDR overdone as an effect...but dealing with high dynamic range from scene to print is a fact of life. I've been dealing with it since school at RIT where I did D log H curves and charted the scene contrast range>the negative density range>print density range...
Title: Re: The Digital Print
Post by: Schewe on November 20, 2012, 09:23:17 pm
I would like to see a description of how each of the rendering intents work, particularly perceptual and relative colrimetric and especially covering the differences when there are no colors out of gamut compared to when there are out of gamut areas, I really don't think it is covered well anywhere.

Thanks...planning on covering that!
Title: Re: The Digital Print
Post by: wolfnowl on November 20, 2012, 09:28:56 pm
After reading through the TOC and suggestions I can't think of anything to add... but definitely looking forward to it!

Mike.
Title: Re: The Digital Print
Post by: Schewe on November 20, 2012, 09:29:37 pm
It is difficult to say just from TOC how will address some topics but what I miss from all books about printing and color management is deeper insight in some facts like what is .oms file, what information you need beside icc profile for optimal print, what is linearization and how to perform it, how to detect ink limit, how to set up printer for various paper thickness, how to test all that and how to change it and optimize if you find that result is not as good as it can be.

Just to let you know in advance, I'm not planning a drill down on using specific printers. I can't, there are simply too many of them. The .oms file is really an HP thing only, and sad to say, HP is really no longer a major player in the current state of the art fine-art printers. I will show both Epson and Canon, pro & consumer, but aside from best practices in dealing with your printer in general, the printers' manuals will need to suffice for the specifics of individual printer models.

Quote
There are lots of topic in this forum that are here because no one ever write about them in a book, like difference in measurement and real life perception in gloss and matt paper maximum black or DMax, general difference in gloss and matte surface and paper characteristic like ink comsuption, scratch resistance, media handling.

That I'll be covering...
Title: Re: The Digital Print
Post by: Schewe on November 20, 2012, 09:32:52 pm
http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
470+ inkjet paper white spectral plots, November 2012:
rearranged categories, Sihl Masterclass papers following soon

I'll also mention this as a resource :~)
Title: Re: The Digital Print
Post by: AaronPhotog on November 20, 2012, 10:03:43 pm
+1 on Qimage.  It's superior in many ways and doesn't have amnesia.  

One of the most important and overlooked tools for selecting papers is Quadtone RIP's calibration page.  Many people are under the mistaken assumption that there is no scientific and accurate way to determine how papers respond to ink (or pigment), but QTR gives you that tool.  No profile or adjustment is involved.  You select only the type of black ink (glossy or matte), and the dpi for the printer (like Epson's 1440x720 or 2880x1440). That's it.  The calibration page simply pushes ink from each cartridge in 5% increments, from 5% to 100%.  Then, you have a direct comparative method for determining ink response from either matte or glossy paper types.  It also makes the color ramps the same way.  You could also compare each of the color cartridge responses, but the blacks tell you all you really need to know in order to select great papers based on their basic inking response instead of rumor, recommendations, reviews, advertisements, and purely subjective judgement.  This tool easily weeds out many of the low-quality papers.  

The different responses can also be compared visually, even without a spectrometer or colorimiter.  When a paper reverses in the top black, there it is for you to see and your spectro will verify that you're not blind.  It's really doing that.  You'll see bronzing at it's best, or worst, and you'll have an idea, unless you have UV cut, when the manufacturer is lying to you about their special bleaching method or substrate that doesn't use any OBA's.  You'll see which papers would give you bumpy curves that would be very hard to linearize.  Then, a visit to Aardenberg and Wilhelm, and Ernst Dinkla's SpectrumViz, and you'll have made your selection task a lot easier.  You'll see when the color gamut is lacking and whent it's good.  Then, you can print to test sharpness, and make subjective surface comparisons (but some of that is taken care of when you compare bronzing on the QTR printouts) without a lot of effort and expense.  There's a technical section that talks about this on my website www.dygartphotography.com.  First, there's a discussion, and second an example of the print-out, followed by charts with some good information, such as the black-to-white difference for each paper-ink combination.

Looking forward to your book,  Happy Thanksgiving, and Aloha (Like your shirt).  

Aaron
 
Title: Re: The Digital Print
Post by: Rand47 on November 20, 2012, 11:32:00 pm
Looks pretty comprehansive to me.
Already drooling in anticipation - disgustingly Pavlovian of me I know - but I can't help it.

Tony Jay

Literally took the words right out of my mouth. +1!
Title: Re: The Digital Print
Post by: jack777 on November 21, 2012, 02:52:19 am
Just wondering if your going to mention common issues with inkjet printers (clogs etc.) and possible ways to handle/prevent them?

Other than that I'm totally looking forward to it. Will it come also as an e-book? Wish I could have read it 3 years ago :D Would have saved me a lot of work and headache.
Title: Re: The Digital Print
Post by: Schewe on November 21, 2012, 02:59:11 am
Just wondering if your going to mention common issues with inkjet printers (clogs etc.) and possible ways to handle/prevent them?

On a printer to printer specific basis? No...again I have to warn you all that I simply don't have the page count to deal with this..

In terms of "best practice" dealing with generic inkjet printers, yes...


Quote
Will it come also as an e-book?

Well, Amazon only sells the Kindle version but Peachpit sells the MOBI (Kindle), EPUB (iPad) and rights managed PDF all for the same price...but yes, there will be electronic versions available...
Title: Re: The Digital Print
Post by: NigelC on November 21, 2012, 09:52:03 am
Possibly section on paper (as opposed to print) handling, common problems like head strikes and how to avoid them.
Title: Re: The Digital Print
Post by: Dan Glynhampton on November 21, 2012, 01:12:36 pm
Hi Jeff - like others I think that the TOC promises a pretty comprehensive coverage of printing, I'm sure to be getting a copy of the book when it's released. Couple of thoughts though - a section on common printing problems could be worth including, possibly as an appendix with cross references to the chapters of the book that address the issue(s), and in the print resolution section please explain the circumstances when one should upsample and/or downsample to get the best results from the printer based on your experience.

Dan
Title: Re: The Digital Print
Post by: GeraldB on November 21, 2012, 01:59:45 pm
What I'd like to see as a novice printer is what kind of information should an artist put on a print, where should it be and how can Lightroom help me. Hopefully its clear I'm talking about information  like tiltles, artist name, dates, image info, print info etc.
Title: Re: The Digital Print
Post by: David Hufford on November 22, 2012, 10:16:43 am
It looks quite interesting so far. Chapter 5 looks like it will be especially useful to me.
Title: Re: The Digital Print
Post by: BarbaraArmstrong on November 24, 2012, 02:46:41 am
Jeff, it seems to me that the section on "Print Substrates" might be better placed in Chapter 4 on Making the Print.  Everything else in Chapter 5 has to do with the print AFTER it has been ejected by the printer.  Also, I (and maybe I misunderstand this) think of my printing workflow as a combination of the aspects of preparing the image (Chapter 3) and actually making the print (Chapter 4).  That would suggest considering putting your chapter on Developing a Printing Workflow before the treatment of Attributes of the Perfect Print.  Putting the workflow discussion last treats it more like a recipe/here's how I do it/ addendum to everything.  In fact, I think you will find a huge interest among your readership in the workflow details.  If you made the workflow discussion Chapter 5, then the culminating chapter would be the final evaluation of the printed result and any further treatment of it -- a fitting ending. --But you are the experienced author, not me.  Many of us will be looking forward to your guidance, and appreciate your giving us a sneak peek at your contents list. --Barbara
Title: Re: The Digital Print
Post by: BarbaraArmstrong on November 24, 2012, 03:38:19 pm
I was surprised by the comment in this thread about rendering intent, particularly perceptual and relative colorimetric, not being covered well anywhere.  I would suggest "Real World Digital Photography," 2nd edition, by Katrin Eismann, Sean Duggan, and Tim Grey (yes, this goes back to 2004), p. 622, for an excellent one-paragraph description with what happens with the two intents when moving from one color space to another.  For an even more nuanced understanding of the implications, one can go to two books by Martin Evening, "Adobe Photoshop 7.0 for Photographers" (an oldie-but-goodie from 2002), p.92-93, and "Adobe Photoshop CS5 for Photographers," (2010) pp.670-673.  I do know there is much to be gained from reading about a difficult or technical topic in more than one treatment of it.  So we could definitely look forward to how Jeff distills this.  Nevertheless, there is good material out there on this. 
     I'll add a way of looking at this which actually sounds like an approach Jeff would enjoy using to describe these rendering intents (he could give me credit!): If we think of a map of the United States as a map of a color space, and everything out of the U.S. as an out-of-gamut color, then with Relative Colorimetric, everything outside of the U.S. gets put in the same place (same color) as the nearest point at the U.S. border.  So Mexico City and Sao Pauo both get mapped to a U.S. border city, appearing with the same color as those border cities, and Paris becomes the same color as a city on the U.S. eastern seaboard.  And nothing changes within the map. With Perceptual, when we want to incorporate out-of-gamut colors (out-of-the-U.S. cities), we compress the locations of existing cities in the U.S. and bring the foreign cities in, maintaining some separation, and therefore the perceptual differences between them, but at the expense of some shift in what started out as in-gamut (in-map).  This gives a worse-than-deserved rap to Relative Colorimetric, as our out-of-gamut colors in photography won't be as out-of-gamut as Sao Paulo or Paris are to the U.S.  But I think this is an interesting way of visualizing what happens.  Photography is fun! --Barbara
Title: Re: The Digital Print
Post by: Schewe on November 24, 2012, 06:40:41 pm
Jeff, it seems to me that the section on "Print Substrates" might be better placed in Chapter 4 on Making the Print.  Everything else in Chapter 5 has to do with the print AFTER it has been ejected by the printer.

I appreciate the feedback...if you take the TOC as a linear thing from front to back, yes, I can see the logic of what you are saying...but (there's always a but), Preparing Images for Printing and Making the Print are really tied together...to me, a discussion of paper before making the print would interrupt that two chapter flow–which is, I think, the heart/meat of the book (based on page count and importance).

Once you learn how to prepare and print, then aspects of what makes a perfect print comes into play after you've learn how to make a print. As far as the workflow, again, it's really not until you've learned the aspects of preparing and printing that you can really understand the importance of workflow. Printing from Photoshop or Lightroom is already covered in Making the Print...it's how to optimize the workflow–particularly if you are combining apps or using 3rd party RIPS that the aspects of tuning a workflow becomes critical.

Again, I appreciate the feedback...I had to think about it, but I think my order is still optimal and heh, there's no rule you must read the chapters in the order I put them into the book :~)
Title: Re: The Digital Print
Post by: hugowolf on November 25, 2012, 09:53:06 pm
I was surprised by the comment in this thread about rendering intent, particularly perceptual and relative colorimetric, not being covered well anywhere.  I would suggest "Real World Digital Photography," 2nd edition, by Katrin Eismann, Sean Duggan, and Tim Grey (yes, this goes back to 2004), p. 622, for an excellent one-paragraph description with what happens with the two intents when moving from one color space to another.  For an even more nuanced understanding of the implications, one can go to two books by Martin Evening, "Adobe Photoshop 7.0 for Photographers" (an oldie-but-goodie from 2002), p.92-93, and "Adobe Photoshop CS5 for Photographers," (2010) pp.670-673.  I do know there is much to be gained from reading about a difficult or technical topic in more than one treatment of it.  So we could definitely look forward to how Jeff distills this.  Nevertheless, there is good material out there on this. 
With due respect, a "one-paragraph description with what happens with the two intents" is exactly what I would argue against. One paragraph for each of relative colorimetric, absolute colorimetric, and saturation, may well suffice. But perceptual is much more complex in its implementational details than the others, and deserves a longer and deeper treatment.

... And, it isn't for the lack of analogies and nuances, which are plentiful.

Brian A
Title: Re: The Digital Print
Post by: Schewe on November 26, 2012, 01:41:00 am
But perceptual is much more complex in its implementational details than the others, and deserves a longer and deeper treatment.

Uh huh, and you realize that "Perceptual' is "secret Sauce (meaning each company's implementation of "Perceptual" is proprietary).

The odds of getting much more that a generic definition of Perceptual is an unrealistic expectation (and truth be told, you prolly wouldn't understand or be able to make use of it if it was totally explained).

Careful what you wish for bud...Perceptual rendering is a black box and your results will vary considerably based on what software/version of a particular Perceptual rending you are using. The rest of the rendering intends are more broadly documented...Perceptual is secret sauce.
Title: Re: The Digital Print
Post by: artobest on November 26, 2012, 04:37:33 am

 I'll add a way of looking at this which actually sounds like an approach Jeff would enjoy using to describe these rendering intents (he could give me credit!): If we think of a map of the United States as a map of a color space, and everything out of the U.S. as an out-of-gamut color ...

I can tell you now, this won't play well outside America.
Title: Re: The Digital Print
Post by: bjanes on November 26, 2012, 08:04:34 am
 
     I'll add a way of looking at this which actually sounds like an approach Jeff would enjoy using to describe these rendering intents (he could give me credit!): If we think of a map of the United States as a map of a color space, and everything out of the U.S. as an out-of-gamut color, then with Relative Colorimetric, everything outside of the U.S. gets put in the same place (same color) as the nearest point at the U.S. border.  So Mexico City and Sao Pauo both get mapped to a U.S. border city, appearing with the same color as those border cities, and Paris becomes the same color as a city on the U.S. eastern seaboard.  And nothing changes within the map. With Perceptual, when we want to incorporate out-of-gamut colors (out-of-the-U.S. cities), we compress the locations of existing cities in the U.S. and bring the foreign cities in, maintaining some separation, and therefore the perceptual differences between them, but at the expense of some shift in what started out as in-gamut (in-map).  This gives a worse-than-deserved rap to Relative Colorimetric, as our out-of-gamut colors in photography won't be as out-of-gamut as Sao Paulo or Paris are to the U.S.  But I think this is an interesting way of visualizing what happens.  Photography is fun! --Barbara

Barbara has brought up an important topic: How does one best handle out of gamut colors when printing (or converting to sRGB for web output). Perceptual rendering can be tried, but it has problems and is not available with matrix profiles. Julieanne Kost (http://tv.adobe.com/watch/whats-new-in-lightroom-4/soft-proofing-images) gives some ideas on this topic in her Lightroom softproofing tutorial. Saturation maksing (http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/restore-clipped.shtml) is another technique. Expanded coverage of this topic would be welcome in the new book.

Regards,

Bill
Title: Re: The Digital Print
Post by: RobinFaichney on November 26, 2012, 08:09:14 am
I can tell you now, this won't play well outside America.

As another Brit I'd just like to flag up that we don't all sweat such small stuff.   8)
Title: Re: The Digital Print
Post by: Ernst Dinkla on November 26, 2012, 08:40:48 am
As another Brit I'd just like to flag up that we don't all sweat such small stuff.   8)

No objection as long as it is not the Pleasantville gamut the US is painted in, the rest will be more colorful.

--
Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

Dinkla Grafische Techniek
Quad,piëzografie,giclée
www.pigment-print.com

Title: Re: The Digital Print
Post by: jrsforums on November 26, 2012, 09:16:48 am
With due respect, a "one-paragraph description with what happens with the two intents" is exactly what I would argue against. One paragraph for each of relative colorimetric, absolute colorimetric, and saturation, may well suffice. But perceptual is much more complex in its implementational details than the others, and deserves a longer and deeper treatment.

... And, it isn't for the lack of analogies and nuances, which are plentiful.

Brian A

Actually, if you are using SpyderPrint as a calibrator the discussion on 'saturation intent' should be longer.

For more detail, contact CD Tobie at Datacolor
Title: Re: The Digital Print
Post by: hugowolf on November 26, 2012, 12:17:54 pm
Careful what you wish for bud...Perceptual rendering is a black box and your results will vary considerably based on what software/version of a particular Perceptual rending you are using. The rest of the rendering intends are more broadly documented...Perceptual is secret sauce.
What I would hold out hope for is a description of how one of the implementations works. An example, in other words.

Brian A
Title: Re: The Digital Print
Post by: BarbaraArmstrong on November 26, 2012, 02:15:54 pm
I would like to add my vote to Bill's asking for guidance converting files to sRGB for Web output.  --Barbara
Title: Re: The Digital Print
Post by: Schewe on November 26, 2012, 06:11:10 pm
Barbara has brought up an important topic: How does one best handle out of gamut colors when printing (or converting to sRGB for web output).

Although I fully plan on covering out of gamut colors in print and media/web, the simple fact is I think the whole issue of "Out of Gamut Colors" is overblown to a large degree. The more important aspect of dealing with out of gamut is seeing what an image will look like when transformed to the final color space and the best way of doing that is by soft proofing.

Clearly, soft proofing is limited by the color space of your display (which isn't a problem for sRGB export), but in my experience, soft proofing in Photoshop or Lightroom (with the edge given to LR) allows you the ability to adjust the way out of gamut colors will look when transformed.

The old PS Out of Gamut warning is pretty old school...(and the LR implementation isn't really an improvement) because it doesn't tell what the colors will look like nor how far out of gamut the colors are. Yes, you can toggle between Perceptual and RelCol and see which works best (for prints, not color space transforms which are hard wired to RelCol–even though the options to use Perceptual is mistakenly offered). For prints, I really only care what the colors are gonna look like...not the fact they may be out of gamut. Then, depending on the appearance under soft proofing, you can manually adjust the image to achieve the appearance at output. There are trick you can use to adjust HSL on a per color basis...but sometimes you just have to live with the reality that some output can't match the appearance in Photoshop or Lightroom and simply work to get the best final output you can...

Now, in the case of CMYK–because the gamut of the color space is so small–that becomes a real challenge...but I'll cover that a bit in the book as well. Sometimes ya just have to live with "it is what it is".
Title: Re: The Digital Print
Post by: BarbaraArmstrong on November 26, 2012, 08:21:02 pm
Jeff, thanks for taking the time to provide that feedback.  Now you can get back to actually writing the book! --Barbara
Title: Re: The Digital Print
Post by: MarkH2 on November 26, 2012, 10:32:25 pm
...For prints, I really only care what the colors are gonna look like...not the fact they may be out of gamut. Then, depending on the appearance under soft proofing, you can manually adjust the image to achieve the appearance at output...

That really sums it up nicely!

The fly in the ointment, as you point out, is if colors are out of your display gamut.  Introduces some guesswork into the process.  Lightroom happily gives us a warning for that when softproofing.  But what is LR giving us a warning for?  It would be most useful if LR is telling us that the colors in the final output color space are unable to be displayed on the monitor.  However, some think that LR is telling us that the colors in its internal processing color space (Melissa RGB, I believe) cannot be displayed.  Is there a definitive answer to this question? 
Title: Re: The Digital Print
Post by: Schewe on November 26, 2012, 11:45:17 pm
Is there a definitive answer to this question? 

There are two different gamut warnings in LR soft proofing...the one on the right side of the histogram tells you what is out of gamut when looking at the output profile shown in red...and the display gamut on the left (of your actual display profile, not LR's working space) in blue...

In both cases, it's a binary in/out of gamut and tells you nothing about how far out of gamut it may be. Using a wide gamut display cuts way down on the display out of gamut warning (blue). The wide gamut of my 900 series Epson printers also shows much less out of gamut color for print. YMMV...(depending on display & printer you are using).
Title: Re: The Digital Print
Post by: MarkH2 on November 27, 2012, 12:43:54 am
There are two different gamut warnings in LR soft proofing...the one on the right side of the histogram tells you what is out of gamut when looking at the output profile shown in red...and the display gamut on the left (of your actual display profile, not LR's working space) in blue...

Not sure I made this clear.

It would be most useful if the gamut warning on the left compared the display profile with the output profile.  But does it?

When Andrew Rodney evaluated softproofing of LR4 Beta he found differently.  See “Lightroom 4 and soft proofing video part 2” at http://www.digitaldog.net/

Rodney learned that the gamut warning on the left compares the gamut of the display with LR’s working space, Melissa RGB.  It does not compare the gamut of the display with the gamut of the output profile.  Hence, its utility is questionable.

Maybe this has been changed since LR4 Beta.  That is the question.
Title: Re: The Digital Print
Post by: Schewe on November 27, 2012, 01:07:19 am
Rodney learned that the gamut warning on the left compares the gamut of the display with LR’s working space, Melissa RGB.  It does not compare the gamut of the display with the gamut of the output profile.  Hence, its utility is questionable.


If what you say about what Andrew thinks, I think Andrew is wrong...the display gamut warning shows colors in the raw image that can not be displayed in the gamut of your display profile. I don't think that 'Melissa RGB" has any impact...and no, of course it doesn't "compare" the gamut of anything...just colors that are technically out of gamut. You have to draw your own conclusion.

BTW, I have a suspicion that you are mistaking Andrew's conclusions...both gamut warnings are taking the image colors and determining whether or not they are in/out of gamut based on the display or output profile. I think you are making things more complicated than they are (or are misunderstanding how LR4 works).

In any case, what you really want to do is learn how to soft proof. Everything else is, well less useful. (I was gonna say bullshyte but resisted, ya know:~)
Title: Re: The Digital Print
Post by: MarkH2 on November 27, 2012, 02:55:33 am
BTW, I have a suspicion that you are mistaking Andrew's conclusions...both gamut warnings are taking the image colors and determining whether or not they are in/out of gamut based on the display or output profile. I think you are making things more complicated than they are (or are misunderstanding how LR4 works).

In any case, what you really want to do is learn how to soft proof. Everything else is, well less useful. (I was gonna say bullshyte but resisted, ya know:~)

Yes, I will have to think this through more carefully.  Kudos for the verbal restraint :)
Title: Re: The Digital Print
Post by: MarkH2 on November 27, 2012, 10:28:11 am
...BTW, I have a suspicion that you are mistaking Andrew's conclusions...both gamut warnings are taking the image colors and determining whether or not they are in/out of gamut based on the display or output profile. I think you are making things more complicated than they are (or are misunderstanding how LR4 works).

In any case, what you really want to do is learn how to soft proof. Everything else is, well less useful. (I was gonna say bullshyte but resisted, ya know:~)

Jeff,

I’m not sure I understand your answer, it’s a bit ambiguous to me, so let me try to make myself  more clear.  I agree some of this is borderline shyte but it does have implications of consequence.

Each pixel in the original image has a color I’ll call Lab(Original).  This value does not change.

During softproofing Lightroom creates a proof copy of the original image.  The pixels change as we make adjustments to the proof.  Label the color of the pixels in the proof Lab(Proof).  The Lab(Proof) values may or may not be the same as the Lab(Original) values, depending on adjustments the user makes.

Using the printer profile, LR can also calculate what each pixel on the print will look like to a standard observer.  Call the calculated color of the printed pixels Lab(Print).

LR calculates the LR(Print) values and uses those to generate the display we see during softproofing.  We are looking at the colors that will be on the print.  (Within limits).

To send an image to the printer or to calculate the Lab(Print) values, LR must bring Lab(Proof) values that fall outside the printer gamut into gamut.  Depending on the rendering intent, Lab(Proof) values within the printer gamut may also be changed.  In fact, nearly all values probably change regardless of rendering intent since tone mapping is required to squeeze the image’s dynamic range into the printer’s smaller dynamic range.  So most, if not all, of the Lab(Print) values are different than the Lab(Proof) values, though not by much in the ideal case.

The gamut warning on the right side of the histogram shows us where the Lab(Proof) values fall outside the printer’s gamut.

The gamut warning on the left shows us what?  It would be nice if it showed where the Lab(Print) values fall outside of the display’s gamut.  But what Andrew Rodney found (as I understood him; forgive me Andrew if I got this wrong) is that this warning instead shows where the Lab(Original) values fall outside the display’s gamut.  Or perhaps the Lab(Proof) values, but certainly not the Lab(Print) values.

Why is this important?  If I knew that I cannot see on my display how some of the colors will print, I might alter my workflow.  If it’s a small print I might just print it and see how it turns out.  If it’s a large print I might print just a small portion.  Or make changes to the proof image.  Etc.  But if I do not know that I’m not seeing the print colors I might be surprised by the print.

I learned several years ago from you and Michael to keep softproofing simple (“From Camera To Print – Fine Art Printing”) and that has worked well for me.  But here is a new tool from Lightroom that could help the process if it is designed to show us when the print colors cannot be displayed.

So that is the question: does the LR gamut warning on the left show us if the Original colors cannot be displayed?  Or the Proof colors?  Or the Print colors?  Or something else?

Mark
Title: Re: The Digital Print
Post by: Schewe on November 27, 2012, 11:55:11 am
So that is the question: does the LR gamut warning on the left show us if the Original colors cannot be displayed?  Or the Proof colors?  Or the Print colors?  Or something else?

The blue out of gamut warning shows the colors of your image (not soft proofed) that are out of gamut from your display...pretty simple (and not all together all that useful). Again, don't get fixated on trying to deal with out of gamut colors, pay attention to what the color will look like by soft proofing.
Title: Re: The Digital Print
Post by: MarkH2 on November 27, 2012, 12:09:02 pm
... not all together all that useful....pay attention to what the color will look like by soft proofing.

And I could do that better if I knew that some of the print colors were not being correctly displayed.  'Nuff said.  Thank you for the clarification.
Title: Re: The Digital Print
Post by: bjanes on November 28, 2012, 04:09:33 pm
Not sure I made this clear.

It would be most useful if the gamut warning on the left compared the display profile with the output profile.  But does it?

When Andrew Rodney evaluated softproofing of LR4 Beta he found differently.  See “Lightroom 4 and soft proofing video part 2” at http://www.digitaldog.net/

Rodney learned that the gamut warning on the left compares the gamut of the display with LR’s working space, Melissa RGB.  It does not compare the gamut of the display with the gamut of the output profile.  Hence, its utility is questionable.

Maybe this has been changed since LR4 Beta.  That is the question.


I don't think you interpreted Andrew's post correctly, but you do raise a valid point. What colors in the print with the rendering intent in use are out of the gamut of the display? The left LR softproof shows colors in the image that are out of the gamut of the monitor and the proof on the right shows the colors in the image that are out of the gamut of the printer with the given paper and rendering intent.

The gamuts in question art those of the display, the printer, and the image. These gamuts will be limited by the working space of LR, which consists of ProPhoto primaries with a linear tone curve. Mellisa is ProPhoto with an sRGB tone curve and is used only to display the RGB info (in percentages) and the histograms. This working space is sufficiently wide so that any real world colors captured by the camera are unlikely to be clipped. One can use Colorthink to examine these gamuts.

I chose an image of a flower with saturated yellows as shown in the LR develop module. The image is exposed to the right with the red and green channels just short of clipping in a 12 bit raw file. Due to white balance, the red channel would be clipped without an exposure adjustment in LR. The raw histogram is shown with Rawdigger.

(http://bjanes.smugmug.com/Photography/LR-Softproofing/i-XTSJLBG/0/L/CBG_062108_0010-Full-4284x2844-L.png)

(http://bjanes.smugmug.com/Photography/LR-Softproofing/i-BxZHwfx/0/O/10_LR_Develop.png)

Here is the soft proof of the highlights for the Epson 3880 using Premium Glossy paper.

(http://bjanes.smugmug.com/Photography/LR-Softproofing/i-MJn4NNq/0/O/10_LR_ProofHighlights.png)

The image was exported in ProPhotoRGB and the gamuts were plotted with Colorthink and the gamuts are shown.

(http://bjanes.smugmug.com/Photography/LR-Softproofing/i-TwrSWJj/0/O/CT_Plot.png)

Discussion is welcome. The chosen photo is not intended to represent any artistic ideal but rather the gamut of an ordinary image.

Regards,

Bill
Title: Re: The Digital Print
Post by: digitaldog on November 28, 2012, 04:36:17 pm
The gamut warning on the left shows us what?  It would be nice if it showed where the Lab(Print) values fall outside of the display’s gamut.  But what Andrew Rodney found (as I understood him; forgive me Andrew if I got this wrong) is that this warning instead shows where the Lab(Original) values fall outside the display’s gamut.  Or perhaps the Lab(Proof) values, but certainly not the Lab(Print) values.

I haven't read all the posts here but just in terms of Out Of Gamut (OOG) overlay:

Before LR 4 shipped (while it was in public beta), the soft proof for display operation didn't make much sense as it didn’t take the actual output profile into account. IOW, it didn't compare the output profile gamut to the display gamut profile. That was fixed in the final release (but I had to work hard to initially convince folks the original behavior wasn't helpful <g>). If memory serves, it compared the display profile to MelissaRGB NOT whatever profile you first selected. Again, it should work properly with the RC.

Both Photoshop AND Lightroom's gamut warnings are not accurate! All you have to do is take an sRGB image into LR, load sRGB and ask to see a gamut overlay. There should be none. But there is some overlay depending on the image. Adobe knows about this tiny disconnect and I don't think they'll do anything to fix it (cause the gamut overlay is kind of worthless anyway). Well it is kind of useful to see what OOG colors are in the image that fall outside display gamut. At least you get some idea on your sRGB display what you're not seeing!

Lastly, if you want to view a gamut plot, if you can, use Colorthink Pro. Other products don't always handle this correctly**

**http://www.colorwiki.com/wiki/Color_Management_Myths_26-28#Myth_26
Title: Re: The Digital Print
Post by: Johnny_Boy on November 28, 2012, 09:24:28 pm
Who  is the intended audience? I bought the Lula printing video and it covers everything that are covered here (I think!), so I won’t personally be purchasing this book. I consider myself “intermediate” level printer.  I was a beginner about a year ago and a book like this would have been awesome rather than scrounging the internet to find bits and pieces of info, or reading thousands of forum threads on various sites with questionable expert information. (so the Lula Printing video was awesome for me).

So, if it is targeted for beginner, and intermediate printer, I would love to see a bit more focus on image processing. “Tone and color optimization” section might cover that, but the whole Chapter 3 seems to assume that you already have great image that is post processed really well.  I realized that if the original image is crappy, no matter how much compensation is made during the printing process, it still looks like crap on paper. (think of in audio term – badly mixed audio tracks will not be saved during the mastering process. But great mixed down audio tracks can be enhanced by great mastering process) 

Also, while people would find chapter 4 useful, things like that gets outdated too quickly as the software gets updated faster than print books. However I do not have alternative solution unless you are publishing this digitally and therefore can update the section frequently. I feel that you should almost focus on what type of generic setting to look out for (i.e. ensure that the profile you selected matches the paper you selected.) rather than walking through a screen shot of a very specific OS and software.

Chapter 5  is called Attributes of a Perfect Print but that is only the first half of the chapter. For lots of beginners selecting what substrates and finishing option to use and why are very useful info. I would much rather see a separate chapter just talking about paper selections, print finishing option and the presentation option. Maybe make that a chapter that comes between Chapter 3 and 4? You will have to talk about paper if you want to talk about gamut warning and output sharpening in which is depends on what substrate you print on.

Also I feel that “Attributes of Perfect Print” should talk more about process of improving the digital file to improve the final print rather than talk about digital artifacts and print viewing environment.
Often I feel that I just printed a “perfect print”. Two days later I make some slight adjustments to the source image and then I can’t believe I call the prints that I made 2 days ago “perfect print”. This is a haphazard process for me, but I would love to hear more about how others do this process.
Title: Re: The Digital Print
Post by: Schewe on November 28, 2012, 10:46:48 pm
So, if it is targeted for beginner, and intermediate printer, I would love to see a bit more focus on image processing. “Tone and color optimization” section might cover that, but the whole Chapter 3 seems to assume that you already have great image that is post processed really well.

I guess you haven't read The Digital Negative (http://www.amazon.com/The-Digital-Negative-Processing-Lightroom/dp/0321839579/ref=zg_bs_132567011_2), huh? If you had, you would realize this book is building on what I wrote in the first book...

As far as whether or not YOU might learn anything useful (having watched the C2PS I assume), well, that's a question you'll have to ask yourself when the book comes out. But, consider this...Mike and I shot C2PS almost two years ago. It's just possible I may have learned a thing or two since then.
Title: Re: The Digital Print
Post by: Johnny_Boy on November 29, 2012, 02:12:31 pm
I guess you haven't read The Digital Negative (http://www.amazon.com/The-Digital-Negative-Processing-Lightroom/dp/0321839579/ref=zg_bs_132567011_2), huh? If you had, you would realize this book is building on what I wrote in the first book...

Ahh! Didn't realize such book existed! This type of book is what I was looking for! Thanks, I will be ordering a copy pretty soon.

(So as far as the feedback on the ToC goes for this new book, it makes sense that you don't focus too much on the post processing itself.)
Title: Re: The Digital Print
Post by: MarkH2 on November 30, 2012, 01:21:35 am
...Before LR 4 shipped (while it was in public beta), the soft proof for display operation didn't make much sense as it didn’t take the actual output profile into account. IOW, it didn't compare the output profile gamut to the display gamut profile. That was fixed in the final release (but I had to work hard to initially convince folks the original behavior wasn't helpful <g>).

Thank you, Rodney, for confirming that the OOG display overlay in LR4 highlights the colors of the print that cannot be displayed.  More useful than highlighting the colors of the original image that cannot be displayed.  Well done fighting that battle.

Non-quantified evidence that this correct: softproof an image (such as a spectrum of fully saturated colors) that has display OOG warning.  The warning areas will change as the output profile is changed, generally enlarging for larger gamut profiles (e.g., resin coated glossy), and shrinking for smaller gamut papers.
Title: Re: The Digital Print
Post by: MarkH2 on November 30, 2012, 01:40:11 am
... The left LR softproof shows colors in the image that are out of the gamut of the monitor and the proof on the right shows the colors in the image that are out of the gamut of the printer with the given paper and rendering intent...

There are three images of concern here: the original image, the proof image (user adjusted during softproofing), and the print image (which you are looking at when softproofing).  The warnng on the right shows pixels in the proof image that are out of the printer’s gamut.  The warning on the left shows pixels in the print image that are out of gamut of your display.
Title: Re: The Digital Print
Post by: Damir on November 30, 2012, 06:27:56 am
I guess you haven't read The Digital Negative (http://www.amazon.com/The-Digital-Negative-Processing-Lightroom/dp/0321839579/ref=zg_bs_132567011_2), huh? If you had, you would realize this book is building on what I wrote in the first book...

As far as whether or not YOU might learn anything useful (having watched the C2PS I assume), well, that's a question you'll have to ask yourself when the book comes out. But, consider this...Mike and I shot C2PS almost two years ago. It's just possible I may have learned a thing or two since then.

Ahhh, another expense. I was not aware of that book, order it yesterday. Thank you for mention it.
Title: Re: The Digital Print
Post by: bjanes on November 30, 2012, 07:48:37 am
There are three images of concern here: the original image, the proof image (user adjusted during softproofing), and the print image (which you are looking at when softproofing).  The warnng on the right shows pixels in the proof image that are out of the printer’s gamut.  The warning on the left shows pixels in the print image that are out of gamut of your display.

Mark,

The behavior that you and Andrew makes sense, but still Jeff Schewe does not seem to agree.


If what you say about what Andrew thinks, I think Andrew is wrong...the display gamut warning shows colors in the raw image that can not be displayed in the gamut of your display profile. I don't think that 'Melissa RGB" has any impact...and no, of course it doesn't "compare" the gamut of anything...just colors that are technically out of gamut. You have to draw your own conclusion.

BTW, I have a suspicion that you are mistaking Andrew's conclusions...both gamut warnings are taking the image colors and determining whether or not they are in/out of gamut based on the display or output profile. I think you are making things more complicated than they are (or are misunderstanding how LR4 works).

In any case, what you really want to do is learn how to soft proof. Everything else is, well less useful. (I was gonna say bullshyte but resisted, ya know:~)

The blue out of gamut warning shows the colors of your image (not soft proofed) that are out of gamut from your display...pretty simple (and not all together all that useful). Again, don't get fixated on trying to deal with out of gamut colors, pay attention to what the color will look like by soft proofing.

I think your concerns are valid and I would like to find out what is really going on. Did you perform the experiment that you suggested?

Regards,

Bill
Title: Re: The Digital Print
Post by: MarkH2 on November 30, 2012, 10:56:09 am
...Did you perform the experiment that you suggested?...

Bill,

I did perform the experiment.  In fact, that is what Andrew noticed and showed in his video referenced earlier – that the display oog warning did not change as the output profile was changed in LR4 beta.  It does change in the release LR4.

Jeff’s emphasis is to not get fixated on what is out of gamut.  He is encouraging us to softproof by adjusting the proof image to look like the original image.  Don’t get sidetracked trying to bring oog colors into gamut, let the software handle that while rendering the proof image to the output profile.  Simply look at the results and adjust to taste.  Go by what you see on screen.  I agree.  However, if what you see on screen is not what will print, that is useful to know.  That is what the display warning tells you.  Jeff also has a very wide gamut display, which helps a bunch.

Andrew’s video also makes a persuasive case that it is better to let Lightroom’s rendering to output profile handle oog colors rather than bringing oog colors into gamut yourself in the proof image.  To paraphrase Andrew:  don’t worry about all the red overlay … you can do an awful lot of work moving sliders around to bring colors in gamut for what is no gain.  “Let the icc profile do the gamut mapping.”

Not everyone appreciates the power of this softproof approach.  They instead tell you to bring oog colors into gamut yourself.  Surprisingly, even Adobe folks -- see, for example, Julieanne Kost’s “Soft Proofing in Lightroom 4” video.  LULA and friends are once again out front!

Mark
Title: Re: The Digital Print
Post by: Onslow on December 02, 2012, 05:31:57 pm
I guess you haven't read The Digital Negative (http://www.amazon.com/The-Digital-Negative-Processing-Lightroom/dp/0321839579/ref=zg_bs_132567011_2), huh? If you had, you would realize this book is building on what I wrote in the first book...

As far as whether or not YOU might learn anything useful (having watched the C2PS I assume), well, that's a question you'll have to ask yourself when the book comes out. But, consider this...Mike and I shot C2PS almost two years ago. It's just possible I may have learned a thing or two since then.

I too was not aware of this book. It is now in the post with me eagerly waiting delivery.... I have the LuLa C2PS and this book will help some of that info settle in.
Title: Re: The Digital Print
Post by: Timein on December 02, 2012, 09:31:18 pm
I'm new to all of this so I would like to see a step by step of what to do to make the print. What settings do I need on my printer - setting print size, selecting paper, margins, etc. I'm also confused about printer profiles - how do I get them and when do you use them in Lightroom and when do you them in the printer and how do you set them.

I realize this may be assumed by many of your members but I sure would appreciate all the basic steps in a how to book. Thanks and looking forward to getting the book - and I need it before my wife starts questing why I bought all this equipment and she doesn't have any pictures of the grandchildren.
Title: Re: The Digital Print
Post by: stormyboy on December 02, 2012, 11:02:29 pm
I see Amazon has the pre-order page up for Jeff's book.
 http://www.amazon.com/Digital-Print-Preparing-Lightroom-Photoshop/dp/0321908457/ref=sr_1_7?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1354507004&sr=1-7&keywords=digital+print (http://www.amazon.com/Digital-Print-Preparing-Lightroom-Photoshop/dp/0321908457/ref=sr_1_7?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1354507004&sr=1-7&keywords=digital+print)
Title: Re: The Digital Print
Post by: Leszek Piotrowski on December 14, 2012, 10:11:16 pm
stormyboy,

Thanks for the notice,.. I placed my preorder for the Digital Print....

Leszek
Title: Re: The Digital Print
Post by: MirekElsner on December 15, 2012, 12:12:06 pm
Two suggestions if it is not too late:
Title: Re: The Digital Print
Post by: JRSmit on December 15, 2012, 03:49:25 pm
Stormboy,

Thanks for the link, placed preorder as well.
Title: Re: The Digital Print
Post by: Rand47 on December 15, 2012, 05:37:39 pm
Stormboy,

Thanks for the link, placed preorder as well.

I also.  Thanks for link.
Rand
Title: Re: The Digital Print
Post by: Nigel Johnson on December 16, 2012, 04:43:08 pm
The book is also available for pre-order on Amazon.co.uk at:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Digital-Print-Preparing-Lightroom/dp/0321908457/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1355693879&sr=8-1 (http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Digital-Print-Preparing-Lightroom/dp/0321908457/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1355693879&sr=8-1)

Unfortunately, as usual, less discount than on Amazon.com >:(, however I have placed my order.

Regards
Nigel

Edited to include correct link - sorry for the confusion.  :-*
Title: Re: The Digital Print
Post by: RobinFaichney on December 17, 2012, 03:48:24 am
The book is also available for pre-order on Amazon.co.uk at:
http://www.amazon.com/Dave-Brubeck/e/B000AQ2AFW/ref=ntt_mus_dp_pel (http://www.amazon.com/Dave-Brubeck/e/B000AQ2AFW/ref=ntt_mus_dp_pel)

Urmm, that's Top Albums by Dave Brubeck on Amazon.com.

Here's The Digital Print on Amazon.co.uk (http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0321908457/), at 15% discount.  :(
Title: Re: The Digital Print
Post by: Josh-H on December 17, 2012, 05:34:14 am
Pre-ordered. Loved The Digital Negative and found it a very fitting tribute to Adams' The Negative.
Title: Re: The Digital Print
Post by: sm906 on December 19, 2012, 03:05:18 am
Hi Jeff,

I am looking for the book to be available in Germany as well, by now it is not announced, but it will...

There are two minor issues I would like to suggest, just in case you haven't planned to have them in the book anyway.


Best regards

Thomas
Title: Re: The Digital Print
Post by: Nigel Johnson on December 19, 2012, 09:10:05 am
Robin,
Thank you for the correction. I must remember to check hyperlinks, especially when copying on an iPad.
Regards,
Nigel
Title: Re: The Digital Print
Post by: Robert-Peter Westphal on December 19, 2012, 12:20:22 pm
Hi Jeff,

I am looking for the book to be available in Germany as well, by now it is not announced, but it will...

[...]


Hello,

you can also preorder this book at Amazon.de - see attached link.

http://www.amazon.de/The-Digital-Print-Preparing-Lightroom/dp/0321908457/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_nC?ie=UTF8&colid=26DDVKJQ5PHUU&coliid=I1UCQ37MSB5CMN (http://www.amazon.de/The-Digital-Print-Preparing-Lightroom/dp/0321908457/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_nC?ie=UTF8&colid=26DDVKJQ5PHUU&coliid=I1UCQ37MSB5CMN)

Best wishes

Robert
Title: Re: The Digital Print
Post by: sm906 on January 11, 2013, 04:23:46 pm
Hello,

you can also preorder this book at Amazon.de - see attached link.

http://www.amazon.de/The-Digital-Print-Preparing-Lightroom/dp/0321908457/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_nC?ie=UTF8&colid=26DDVKJQ5PHUU&coliid=I1UCQ37MSB5CMN (http://www.amazon.de/The-Digital-Print-Preparing-Lightroom/dp/0321908457/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_nC?ie=UTF8&colid=26DDVKJQ5PHUU&coliid=I1UCQ37MSB5CMN)

Robert,

thanks for the link, preordering done. Really nice to meet someone nearby here on LuLa  ;D

Greets to Krefeld from Essen

Thomas
Title: Re: The Digital Print
Post by: howdego on January 29, 2013, 11:17:04 am
Jeff,

I just reviewed two of your books in our local bookstore and I was very impressed.  I have been using LR4 and PS6 since they were introduced. At this time, I think I need to improve my knowledge of sharpening of landscape photos, both capture sharpening in Lightroom4 and output sharpening in PS6.  I mostly produce bluray videos with music, effects, etc. for viewing on my HDTV, but I will be looking to produce prints soon.  Given that Sharpening procedures in both programs is currently my focus, I was about to purchase Real World Image Sharpening....., 2nd edition instead of your Digital Negative book.  However, I noticed that a lot of the advice in RWIS involves the use of much earlier versions of my programs, and I know you have mentioned that you have modified your thoughts on some things since 2009, partly in light of the new Adobe versions. 

So, given my needs, might there be a later book of yours that would better suit me that the RWIS, second edition?
Title: Re: The Digital Print
Post by: Praki on January 29, 2013, 12:16:09 pm
I ordered the Digital Negative it's on it's way .... the TOC for the Digital Print looks great. Can you put in an appendix regarding the basic way PS or LR needs to be set up out of the box, for beginners, so that the proper parameters are chosen? i.e. the bit depth, color workspace etc. so that the software is set up properly to work on the digital negative as well as the digital print that works in most cases (best practices or maybe how it is set up in your case and why). I am sure the info is covered in a distributed manner throughout the books but if it is consolidated at one place it would be of great help to beginners. If there are tips for beginners that are highlighted throughout the book that would be really useful. I look forward to the this book also.
Thanks.
Praki.
Title: Re: The Digital Print
Post by: Schewe on January 29, 2013, 12:45:14 pm
So, given my needs, might there be a later book of yours that would better suit me that the RWIS, second edition?

I would go for The Digital Neg and not the RWIS book...it's up to date and there likely won't be a 3rd edition of RWIS (I worked on the 2nd, Bruce wrote the first).
Title: Re: The Digital Print
Post by: Schewe on January 29, 2013, 12:50:51 pm
I ordered the Digital Negative it's on it's way .... the TOC for the Digital Print looks great. Can you put in an appendix regarding the basic way PS or LR needs to be set up out of the box, for beginners, so that the proper parameters are chosen?

The way the two books are designed, The Digital Negative is how to take your original images and optimize them for your master RGB images. The Digital Print will show how to take those optimized images and prepare them for ideal printed output. Get the first book and read it (and understand it) and you'll be 1/2 the way...when you get the second book, you'll learn how to get the best print you can. But I won't be putting in an "appendix" per se...just an index.
Title: Re: The Digital Print
Post by: howdego on January 29, 2013, 05:38:16 pm
Jeff,

That is what I decided too. 

A thought.  More people are finding that their photo's get more attention if displayed on an HDTV, especially if one can make a show of a photo trip.  Might it be applicable (and lucrative) to add a chapter to the new book to describe the steps to also go from Lightroom to Photoshop to a video production program like Proshow Gold, or just a slideshow using Photoshop, for display on an HDTV?

BTW, I am having a yellow shift issue between Lightroom4 and Photoshop6 on my photos.  Would you welcome a question about that within this thread?
Title: Re: The Digital Print
Post by: Schewe on January 29, 2013, 05:39:26 pm
BTW, I am having a yellow shift issue between Lightroom4 and Photoshop6 on my photos.  Would you welcome a question about that within this thread?

Best to start a new thread..
Title: Re: The Digital Print
Post by: Adam L on May 01, 2013, 01:16:09 pm
Due April 2013...

Jeff, if I remember correctly this book is delayed due to changes associated with LR5 Print Module that you wanted to include in this book.   I see from Amazon that it is now set for release in August.   With the LR5 beta version out, and no known changes to the print module I suspect I mis-interpreted the reason for this delay.   Was I smoking something or is there an enhancement not yet released in LR5?
Title: Re: The Digital Print
Post by: Schewe on May 01, 2013, 01:48:39 pm
Jeff, if I remember correctly this book is delayed due to changes associated with LR5 Print Module that you wanted to include in this book.   I see from Amazon that it is now set for release in August.   With the LR5 beta version out, and no known changes to the print module I suspect I mis-interpreted the reason for this delay.   Was I smoking something or is there an enhancement not yet released in LR5?

Well, there's another application involved called Photoshop...the next version has not been announced yet. Also, even though LR5's Print module hasn't changed, the overall application has. So, it was decided to push things back so I could get the new versions of LR & PS involved.
Title: Re: The Digital Print
Post by: Damir on May 02, 2013, 05:32:47 pm
If Adobe continue to release their updates and new versions so fast, you will never publish that book  :)
Title: Re: The Digital Print
Post by: Schewe on May 02, 2013, 05:41:35 pm
If Adobe continue to release their updates and new versions so fast, you will never publish that book  :)

Oh, it'll get done, but the whole "upgrade cycle" is likely to change in the future...which will make printed books difficult to do if they are version specific.
Title: Re: The Digital Print
Post by: John V. on May 06, 2013, 08:49:29 pm
I use cs5 exclusively, and will for quite a while. Can I get the book now? Can/will individual chapters be purchased online?
Title: Re: The Digital Print
Post by: Schewe on May 06, 2013, 08:53:28 pm
I use cs5 exclusively, and will for quite a while. Can I get the book now? Can/will individual chapters be purchased online?

Nope...sorry, you'll have to wait till the book is released in Aug.
Title: Re: The Digital Print
Post by: StephaneB on June 27, 2013, 11:21:07 am
Hi Jeff

No plan for a third book called The Digital Camera?  :)
Title: Re: The Digital Print
Post by: stormyboy on June 27, 2013, 12:22:37 pm
Hello.  I recall Jeff saying quite a while ago that he was not going to write the third book in the series.
Tom
Title: Re: The Digital Print
Post by: Schewe on June 27, 2013, 05:03:09 pm
No plan for a third book called The Digital Camera?  :)

Not really, I don't want to get too for into the camera hardware side of things...I think there are plenty of books about digital photography already...but hey, you never know. Now that I'm done with The Digital Print, I've got nothing to do :~)
Title: Re: The Digital Print
Post by: Eric Myrvaagnes on June 27, 2013, 07:06:55 pm
Then how about following up on some other of Saint Ansel's books. You could do "Digital Natural Light Photography," or perhaps "Digital Polaroid Photography."   ;)

But don't rush; I still have lots to read and reread in the Digital Negative and looking forward to the Digital Print.

Eric M.
Title: Re: The Digital Print
Post by: Schewe on July 18, 2013, 06:47:53 pm
But don't rush; I still have lots to read and reread in the Digital Negative and looking forward to the Digital Print.

They're HEEEERE!

(http://schewephoto.com/test/TDP-book.jpg)

I got my author's copies today for The Digital Print...

So, it should hit the streets (at least in the US) in the next week or so...
Title: Re: The Digital Print
Post by: Tony Jay on July 18, 2013, 06:59:37 pm
Fabulous...!!!!

Just got to see how long it takes for Amazon to deliver - my copy has been on backorder for months.

Tony Jay
Title: Re: The Digital Print
Post by: Rand47 on July 18, 2013, 07:19:54 pm
Way cool!   I have my pre-order in at Amazon!   How might one go about getting a signed copy?   :-)

Thanks!
Rand
Title: Re: The Digital Print
Post by: Schewe on July 18, 2013, 07:25:06 pm
How might one go about getting a signed copy?   :-)

Buy one, then send it to me...I'll autograph it for $1.00!

(you pay round trip shipping)
Title: Re: The Digital Print
Post by: Rand47 on July 18, 2013, 07:31:39 pm
Buy one, then send it to me...I'll autograph it for $1.00!

(you pay round trip shipping)

You're on!

Rand
Title: Re: The Digital Print
Post by: Schewe on July 18, 2013, 07:46:41 pm
You're on!

I sent you an IM...
Title: Re: The Digital Print
Post by: cortlander on July 19, 2013, 07:30:59 pm
Great! I have had mine on order since Feb 14th, and I do have Digital Negative and the Ultimate Workshop. Can't wait to see this one.

They're HEEEERE!

(http://schewephoto.com/test/TDP-book.jpg)

I got my author's copies today for The Digital Print...

So, it should hit the streets (at least in the US) in the next week or so...
Title: Re: The Digital Print
Post by: mvsoske on July 19, 2013, 11:34:20 pm
Downloaded it to my Kindle today!

Mark
Title: Re: The Digital Print
Post by: bjanes on July 20, 2013, 12:35:04 pm
They're HEEEERE!

(http://schewephoto.com/test/TDP-book.jpg)

I got my author's copies today for The Digital Print...

So, it should hit the streets (at least in the US) in the next week or so...

Jeff,

I have had my copy on order at Amazon.com since April and they are now predicting delivery Aug 7-9. As usual they are clueless. Why don't you have a book signing at your local bookstore? Many of us in the Chicago area would come and would welcome the opportunity to meet you in person.

Regards,

Bill
Title: Re: The Digital Print
Post by: Schewe on July 20, 2013, 04:09:59 pm
Why don't you have a book signing at your local bookstore?

Yeah, ya know, I've thought about that...but I figured if I did that there would only be my wife & daughter and a couple of friends and 1 or 2 strangers show up...(it's actually the strangers that scare me :~) Besides, does anybody actually go to book stores anymore? I think there's still a Borders not too far from me but all the other book stores are long gone, sadly...
Title: Re: The Digital Print
Post by: Tony Jay on July 20, 2013, 05:03:16 pm
...Besides, does anybody actually go to book stores anymore? I think there's still a Borders not too far from me but all the other book stores are long gone, sadly...
That is a very sad commentary unfortunately.
"Real books" IMHO are still a very important part of our society but, it seems, they are becoming increasingly devalued.
For the future I am yet to be convinced that digital media give the same impetus to learning how to read, as well as reading to learn, that a good book (read: real in one's hands kind of book) can.
I can still get excited about going to a good bookstore but as Schewe says there just aren't any left anymore.
Borders made a brief appearance in Australia and then went bankrupt, most other independent bookstores have similarly disappeared.
The two franchise chains left are hopeless - I have not even been inside one in the last five years.
Nearly all my book purchases in the last few years have been through Amazon - not by choice - it appears to be the only place that I can find any of the titles that I want.

All I can hope for is that my pessimism regarding the demise of the "real book" and the bookstores that sold them is misplaced.
The education of generations to come and future economic and political stability will be at stake.

Nonetheless, my hope is that individuals like Jeff Schewe continue to write books on all sorts of topics and that their publishers do not give up on print media.
Just as an aside I see no problem with presenting publications in different forms of media, including digital, at all. I just see those options as complimentary to "real books" and not as an absolute replacement.

Tony Jay
Title: Re: The Digital Print
Post by: bjanes on July 20, 2013, 05:42:51 pm
Yeah, ya know, I've thought about that...but I figured if I did that there would only be my wife & daughter and a couple of friends and 1 or 2 strangers show up...(it's actually the strangers that scare me :~) Besides, does anybody actually go to book stores anymore? I think there's still a Borders not too far from me but all the other book stores are long gone, sadly...

There is also a Borders not far from my house, but their digital photography for the more advanced photographers is rather skimpy and they charge full price. For your new book the list price is $49.99 and it is available from Amazon.com for $31.98. I would like to support local merchants, but if I know what book I want, it is easier to order it from Amazon rather than going to the store to find out that they don't have it or asking the full list price if they do have it.

Bill
Title: Re: The Digital Print
Post by: Schewe on July 20, 2013, 06:05:18 pm
Just as an aside I see no problem with presenting publications in different forms of media, including digital, at all. I just see those options as complimentary to "real books" and not as an absolute replacement.

Well, I've seen my books on Kindle and iBook and they don't look very good...the only ebook version I've seen that I like is the PDF version on an iPad (either size looks good) The original page design remains as do figure placement...with the EPUB & MOBI versions, everything gets reflowed based on font size and page designed goes right out the window. Unfortunately, Amazon doesn't sell the PDF ebook, just the Kindle version so people need to go to Peachpit to get the rights managed PDF version.
Title: Re: The Digital Print
Post by: Tony Jay on July 20, 2013, 09:04:31 pm
Well, I've seen my books on Kindle and iBook and they don't look very good...

That's a pity too! In my case I went with the paper version.

Tony Jay
Title: Re: The Digital Print
Post by: Remo Nonaz on July 22, 2013, 04:49:47 pm
Is that THE copy that's on Amazon for $599.90? I'll have to wait for the 2nd edition ;D.

http://www.amazon.com/The-Digital-Print-Preparing-Lightroom/dp/B00BXOWXAC/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1374525936&sr=8-2&keywords=schewe%2C+the+digital+print (http://www.amazon.com/The-Digital-Print-Preparing-Lightroom/dp/B00BXOWXAC/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1374525936&sr=8-2&keywords=schewe%2C+the+digital+print)
Title: Re: The Digital Print
Post by: Schewe on July 22, 2013, 05:48:58 pm
Is that THE copy that's on Amazon for $599.90? I'll have to wait for the 2nd edition ;D.

Yep, that's the one...sadly, I don't think I would get a royalty beyond the actual list price :~(

So, I would suggest waiting till they are in stock in the regular Amazon store.
Title: Re: The Digital Print
Post by: Remo Nonaz on July 22, 2013, 07:39:55 pm
Then I will wait and buy it later, but I will buy it. I always enjoy your books - and learn stuff, too!  ;)
Title: Re: The Digital Print
Post by: JimAscher on July 23, 2013, 10:10:37 am
I cancelled my pre-order with Amazon for the paperback version and purchased (for one price) the three ebook formats from Peachtree.  I have loaded all three on my Android tablet (Samsung), the pdf, epub and mobi (Kindle) versions, and thus have the option of selecting in each instance of my particular consultation need which one may better serve my immediate purpose.   A bit of overkill, perhaps, but so what!  Now to get on with my reading -- and hopefully benefiting -- from Jeff's latest advice.
Title: Re: The Digital Print
Post by: Salmo22 on July 23, 2013, 10:39:22 am
Jeff - Do you ever anticipate updating the Real World Camera Raw with Adobe Photoshop CS5 and Real World Image Sharpening with Adobe Photoshop, Camera Raw, and Lightroom books that you co-authored with Bruce Fraser? Or, do you feel that this information is covered effectively in your new books?
Title: Re: The Digital Print
Post by: Chairman Bill on July 23, 2013, 11:28:20 am
The book sounds interesting & above all, useful, but I'm using Aperture & a suite of Nik plug-ins, not Lightroom. How much of the book contents are likely to prove irrelevant to me as a result?
Title: Re: The Digital Print
Post by: Schewe on July 24, 2013, 01:38:42 pm
How much of the book contents are likely to prove irrelevant to me as a result?

Some...but not a lot. The book on Amazon has the Look Inside enabled so you can look at the table of contents. In terms of general things like color management and printers, papers and workflow, that's pretty application agnostic. But in terms of soft proofing, and tone/color correction and printing, that's pretty much application specific.
Title: Re: The Digital Print
Post by: Schewe on July 24, 2013, 01:40:02 pm
Or, do you feel that this information is covered effectively in your new books?

No plans on updating those titles...and yes, between The Digital Neg and The Digital Print, I think it's all pretty much there in the new books.
Title: Re: The Digital Print
Post by: Salmo22 on July 24, 2013, 04:11:27 pm
No plans on updating those titles...and yes, between The Digital Neg and The Digital Print, I think it's all pretty much there in the new books.

Thanks Mike, I've ordered both.
Title: Re: The Digital Print
Post by: texshooter on July 24, 2013, 05:25:05 pm
Jeff - Do you ever anticipate updating  Real World Image Sharpening with Adobe Photoshop, Camera Raw, and Lightroom books that you co-authored with Bruce Fraser? Or, do you feel that this information is covered effectively in your new books?

I would rather see a book comparing all sharpening techniques and tools, not just Adobe products. Sharpening can be overwhelming with all the different plug-ins (Topaz, Nik, PKS, etc.) and secret recipes (deconvolution vs USM, highlight/shadow sharpening, etc) out there. Would be nice if someone boiled it all down so one can make an informed choice on which tool/method works best and when. Of course, I doubt Adobe would commission Schewe to author a book such as this. And I don't know what noncompetition agreements Schewe is bound to.
Title: Re: The Digital Print
Post by: Schewe on July 24, 2013, 05:53:58 pm
Of course, I doubt Adobe would commission Schewe to author a book such as this. And I don't know what noncompetition agreements Schewe is bound to.

Adobe has never commissioned me to write a book...I write about Adobe software because that's what I know really well. And, I have no noncompete contracts with anybody but my publishers about the specific book I write. And, truth be told, I don't use those 3rd party products because I don't need them...and I would have zero interest in doing that sort of book anyway.
Title: Re: The Digital Print
Post by: Schewe on July 24, 2013, 05:54:53 pm
Thanks Mike, I've ordered both.

Mike? Who's Mike? My name is Jeff...

:~)
Title: Re: The Digital Print
Post by: Salmo22 on July 24, 2013, 06:23:54 pm
Mike? Who's Mike? My name is Jeff...

:~)

Sorry Jeff, its been a long day. I hope I ordered the right books :∾)
Title: Re: The Digital Print
Post by: Eric Myrvaagnes on July 24, 2013, 08:11:41 pm
Mike? Who's Mike? My name is Jeff...

:~)
I think he confused you with Michael, because your shirts are so similar on the LuLa videos.   ;)

Title: Re: The Digital Print
Post by: Schewe on July 24, 2013, 11:56:45 pm
I think he confused you with Michael, because your shirts are so similar on the LuLa videos.   ;)

Heaven forbid...I even tried to talk Mike into wearing a Hawaiian shirt for the LR5 video...he said no. Wimp! (Canadian)
Title: Re: The Digital Print
Post by: mvsoske on July 27, 2013, 09:29:25 am
Jeff:

Just finished reading the book.  I have consumed a lot of your insight through the various videos you participated in from LULA as well as your other posts and writings, and I have a collection of books going back to the mid '60's from other photographers, but this volume - coupled with The Digital Negative - will become the bible for digital processing.  Yes, the early chapter on color management got a bit geeky, but, I also learned / understood more than I had. Great job!

Mark
Title: Re: The Digital Print
Post by: Schewe on July 27, 2013, 03:49:27 pm
Yes, the early chapter on color management got a bit geeky, but, I also learned / understood more than I had. Great job!

Well, I had a hard time trying to find the sweet-spot between too much geek and too little. I know that the first part of the chapter when talking about color was inspired by Bruce Fraser's Real World Color Management writing but I don't think I equaled Bruce's ability to make the complex, simple :~(

On the other hand, I did give fair warning in the beginning that it was gonna get geeky and to skip it if it got to be too much :~)

But thanks for the feedback and kind words...I appreciate it.
Title: Re: The Digital Print
Post by: stormyboy on July 27, 2013, 05:20:40 pm
Amazon informs me that my copy has been sent.  I guess they are coming out a tad earlier than thought.
Tom
Title: Re: The Digital Print
Post by: cortlander on July 29, 2013, 04:25:43 pm
My copy came in this afternoon, from Amazon.
Title: Re: The Digital Print
Post by: davidgp on July 30, 2013, 01:24:04 am
Amazon is telling me that my copy will arrive around September 11 to September 12... I suppose it takes a bit of time crossing the Atlantic, from the states to Spain...
Title: Re: The Digital Print
Post by: Eric Myrvaagnes on July 30, 2013, 12:55:14 pm
Amazon is telling me that my copy will arrive around September 11 to September 12... I suppose it takes a bit of time crossing the Atlantic, from the states to Spain...
Maybe the paddles (for the crossing) are back-ordered.   ;)
Title: Re: The Digital Print
Post by: rvonmayr on July 31, 2013, 01:25:09 am
Got mine from the big river today.   :)
Title: Re: The Digital Print
Post by: Schewe on July 31, 2013, 02:03:58 am
Maybe the paddles (for the crossing) are back-ordered.   ;)

Well, the books are printed in the good old USA (at least the English version) so those book get shipped from Indiana (where one of the Courier facilities (http://www.courier.com/) are located). I've actually visited the printer for a press proofing the first time I did a Real World Camera Raw update (for Photoshop CS3).

Since then my books have been printed without my attending the press proof because, well, I've gotten really good at preparing the images in my books for CMYK repro...

(hint, I use PhotoKit Sharpening 2 for halftone output for all the figures in the book with screenshot upsampled 200% using Nearest Neighbor then doing a dual separation with normal GCR and a Max K sep). Kinda geeky...sorry!

So, if the books started in Indiana (where my books are printed), they would be trucked to the coast, then loaded into a container, then a container ship and shipped to Europe...so it takes a while to get overseas...

Title: Re: The Digital Print
Post by: Schewe on July 31, 2013, 02:04:26 am
Got mine from the big river today.   :)

Cool!!!

Hope you like it!!!
Title: Re: The Digital Print
Post by: Peter Mellis on July 31, 2013, 04:28:26 pm
My copy (metro NY area) arrived yesterday. Looks good; now I need to sit quietly and absorb it.
Title: Re: The Digital Print
Post by: Dahlmann on July 31, 2013, 05:36:48 pm
I bought the digital version yesterday and i'm looking forward to read it.   

Keep up the good work Jeff


Cheers Daniel

Title: Re: The Digital Print
Post by: JimGoshorn on August 01, 2013, 03:45:31 pm
Mine is scheduled to be delivered Monday 8/5. Looking forward to reading it.

Jim
Title: Re: The Digital Print
Post by: Darkslide on August 01, 2013, 07:55:28 pm
I received my copy yesterday. Awesome book! Wonderful follow up to the Digital Negative. If you are on the fence about getting this, stop and order it now.
Title: Re: The Digital Print
Post by: bjanes on August 01, 2013, 09:17:25 pm
I received my copy yesterday. Awesome book! Wonderful follow up to the Digital Negative. If you are on the fence about getting this, stop and order it now.

I received my copy from Amazon.com today and highly recommend the book. Good job, Jeff! The illustrations are well chosen and are of excellent quality. The section on color management is very good and IMHO not too geeky. One thing to nitpick: page 21-illuminate (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/illuminate) is a transitive verb and the noun is illuminant as in Illuminant A (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_illuminant).

Bill
Title: Re: The Digital Print
Post by: Schewe on August 01, 2013, 09:23:45 pm
One thing to nitpick: page 21-illuminate (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/illuminate) is a transitive verb and the noun is illuminant as in Illuminant A (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_illuminant).

I'll have to yell at my copy editor!

I've actually caught some stupid typos myself...because of the book's delay, things got really tight for time at the end and some stuff got through that shouldn't have...no excuses, just an explanation :~)

But thanks for the kind words...
Title: Re: The Digital Print
Post by: W.T. Jones on August 03, 2013, 08:31:27 am
Mine showed up on Friday Aug 2, I had a quick look before bed last night & it looks pretty good. I'll delve into it further during the week. I do have to say this, the section on color is above my pay grade  :o
Title: Re: The Digital Print
Post by: bigd on August 03, 2013, 10:43:43 am
My copy arrived August 1st also.  I had forgotten I had pre-ordered back in February.  So far have read about 40 pages.  Very interesting and informative.  Jeff, well done.

Darryl  8)
Title: Re: The Digital Print
Post by: JRSmit on August 03, 2013, 11:27:44 am
Just received word from Amazon (NL is served via UK) that my copy will arrive august 12-13. Hmmmm, to wait another 10 days or so, bummer.
Title: Re: The Digital Print
Post by: Ernst Dinkla on August 06, 2013, 10:22:43 am
My copy arrived today. The package mentions Frankfurt Airport as a stop on its way to The Netherlands. Checked page 267 first of course. Thank you Jeff.

--
Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
July 2013, 500+ inkjet media white spectral plots.
Title: Re: The Digital Print
Post by: francois on August 07, 2013, 07:52:12 am
My copy arrived today. The package mentions Frankfurt Airport as a stop on its way to The Netherlands. Checked page 267 first of course. Thank you Jeff.

--
Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
July 2013, 500+ inkjet media white spectral plots.

Good news, I should then receive mine soon.
Title: Re: The Digital Print
Post by: Leszek Piotrowski on August 09, 2013, 07:55:39 pm
Got my copy yesterday,... and today finishing up on Chapter 2. Believe it or not ,.. but I really found Chapter One very informative,... as I can better decide/confirm which type of printer to save up for and buy.

Thanks Jeff , and glad you spent the time in "writing book hell", and got the book written.

Leszek
Title: Re: The Digital Print
Post by: Sunny Alan on August 10, 2013, 02:12:51 am
This book is easy for beginners or for those already using Photoshop and LR?
Again, Photoshop CC is mentioned and in comparison to CS6 ?
Title: Re: The Digital Print
Post by: Schewe on August 10, 2013, 04:08:37 am
This book is easy for beginners or for those already using Photoshop and LR?
Again, Photoshop CC is mentioned and in comparison to CS6 ?

Easy?

Well...the book presumes a degree of understanding of Lightroom / ACR & Photoshop...the screenshots are based on LR 5 & Photoshop CC but would work ok for Photoshop CS6 as well...

The book is not designed for beginners of Lightroom and Photoshop...but you'll learn what you need to learn to print. If you are a newbie to LR or PS, there are better books that cover the basics.

Title: Re: The Digital Print
Post by: JRSmit on August 10, 2013, 09:12:06 am
My copy arrived today! Started reading, but about to have dear friends visiting us, so did a quick peek through the remainder. Very interesting to put it mildly ;-)

Good to see mentioning of Ernst Dinkla and others.

Perhaps a good idea to have you together with Scott Martin and Ernst and some others do a similar publication on how to setup and profile  RGB printers of Epson and Canon  to maximise the output quality? This would complete the path from a well developed digital negative via a well prepared digital print to a well printed and presented endresult.
Title: Re: The Digital Print
Post by: bjanes on August 22, 2013, 11:30:15 am
I'll have to yell at my copy editor!

I've actually caught some stupid typos myself...because of the book's delay, things got really tight for time at the end and some stuff got through that shouldn't have...no excuses, just an explanation :~)

But thanks for the kind words...

Jeff,

Not to nitpick, but there are some typos in Table 5.1 on page 269 of The Digital Print. Some of the contrast ratios are slightly off with the correct values shown below. This does not detract from your masterful condensation of what one needs to know about digital printing, but corrections could be made in another run of the printing. As with The Digital Negative, you manage to cover the essentials of what one needs to know in abundantly illustrated 300 pages. The two books really need to be read together.

Regards,

Bill
Title: Re: The Digital Print
Post by: Schewe on August 22, 2013, 07:38:18 pm
Not to nitpick, but there are some typos in Table 5.1 on page 269 of The Digital Print.

I just reran the calcs and your numbers are correct using the 10^(D-max - D-min) calculations...so, I don't know where the typos came from. I'll check the final text I sent in to see if something got screwed up in the InDesign files...thanks for the alert. At least they are "close"...

:~)
Title: Re: The Digital Print
Post by: Natvander on September 25, 2013, 05:55:43 am
After dramas ordering the book locally I finally received it direct from Peachpit (and on the same day was contacted by the local book shop to say my order arrived - go figure).  IMO The Digital Neg is the book I prefer to read because it's more fun.  The Digital Print is the book I should read because that's all the stuff I'm sure we all neglect because lets face it - colour management isn't that fun (compared to shooting and processing).  I've already found three areas in my print workflow that I did already know, but forgot about because I've been slack and neglected that part.

Thanks Jeff for another great book.  It's a harder book to comprehend than the first, but then the subject is more technical than the first.  What's next?
Title: Re: The Digital Print
Post by: Mike Guilbault on September 25, 2013, 11:04:28 pm
How come the digital version on iTunes (to download to my iPad) costs so much more?
Title: Re: The Digital Print
Post by: Schewe on September 25, 2013, 11:55:05 pm
How come the digital version on iTunes (to download to my iPad) costs so much more?

Because Apple takes 33% so the publisher sells at list (which you don't pay if you buy the electronic versions from Peachpit).

When you buy from Peachpit you get all three formats of ebooks: EPUB, MOBI and rights managed PDF. I really don't suggest buying tech books from iTunes/iBooks!
Title: Re: The Digital Print
Post by: Mike Guilbault on September 26, 2013, 10:32:04 am
Thanks for the tip Jeff... on my way to Peachpit!
Title: Re: The Digital Print
Post by: Paul Ozzello on September 26, 2013, 04:01:47 pm
Just got my copy :)