Luminous Landscape Forum

Equipment & Techniques => Cameras, Lenses and Shooting gear => Topic started by: HarperPhotos on September 18, 2012, 04:28:08 PM

Title: Nikon 17mm PC-E Lens
Post by: HarperPhotos on September 18, 2012, 04:28:08 PM
Hello,

Well this morning all excited I went to the Photokina website to see if my dream had come true but alas no Nikon 17mm PC-E tilt shift lens.

Cheers

Simon
Title: Re: Nikon 17mm PC-E Lens
Post by: JeffKohn on September 18, 2012, 04:48:42 PM
I'd rather have a 30mm PC-E lens, personally.
Title: Re: Nikon 17mm PC-E Lens
Post by: heinrichvoelkel on September 18, 2012, 05:01:45 PM
here we go: announced at Photokina

(http://www.photoscala.de/grafik/2012/SK-PCTS4528_stehend.jpg)
Title: Re: Nikon 17mm PC-E Lens
Post by: MrSmith on September 18, 2012, 05:27:05 PM
I'd rather have a 30mm PC-E lens, personally.

1.4 converter and a 24 is roughly a 33mm (canon, I presume Nikon have a similar converter?)
Title: Re: Nikon 17mm PC-E Lens
Post by: RobbieV on September 18, 2012, 05:49:00 PM
What about this?
(http://nikonrumors.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/Samyang-24mm-f3.5-tilt-shift-lens.jpeg)
Image source:NikonRumors
Title: Re: Nikon 17mm PC-E Lens
Post by: JeffKohn on September 18, 2012, 06:02:03 PM
here we go: announced at Photokina

http://www.photoscala.de/grafik/2012/SK-PCTS4528_stehend.jpg (http://www.photoscala.de/grafik/2012/SK-PCTS4528_stehend.jpg)

Looks interesting, I will be eagerly awaiting early reviews. But if this is a recycled design of some old MF lens (and I suspect it is given the f/4.5 aperture), the performance may not be up to snuff for today's DSLR's. I was pretty disappointed with the performance and ergonomics of their 50mm T/S I rented (the 90mm T/S is supposed to be spectacular from what I hear, though).
Title: Re: Nikon 17mm PC-E Lens
Post by: heinrichvoelkel on September 19, 2012, 06:19:02 AM
I was pretty disappointed with the performance and ergonomics of their 50mm T/S I rented

why so? care to elaborate
Title: Re: Nikon 17mm PC-E Lens
Post by: free1000 on September 19, 2012, 08:59:48 AM
Apparently will be available 'at the end of the year' according to the staff on the stand at Photokina.  I always treat such projections with suspicion where optics are concerned, there are so many I can think of from over the years that never ended up in production.  However the fact that the optical spec is so very similar to a certain other lens means that probably it is at least technically feasible to be made.

Looking at the other lenses in their range, they don't inspire the sort of confidence of a Canon or Nikon lens. 

Many of them have a shiny red metallic strip that reminds me of the sort of metallic plastic used for Christmas ornaments or candy wrappers.  Luckily I think the TS lens lacks that.

An endless stream of people gather round the prototype in its plexiglass box, but I guess there is nothing much to say about it because the workers on the stand don't come over and say hello.

Title: Re: Nikon 17mm PC-E Lens
Post by: JeffKohn on September 19, 2012, 10:26:46 AM
why so? care to elaborate
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?topic=46473.msg474704#msg474704
Title: Re: Nikon 17mm PC-E Lens
Post by: ACH DIGITAL on September 19, 2012, 02:28:50 PM
More info on the Schneider 28mm TS

http://digitaljournalofphotography.blogspot.com/2012/09/schneider-kreuznach-announces-four.html (http://digitaljournalofphotography.blogspot.com/2012/09/schneider-kreuznach-announces-four.html)
Title: Re: Nikon 17mm PC-E Lens
Post by: heinrichvoelkel on September 19, 2012, 05:03:25 PM
thank you, Jeff
Title: Re: Nikon 17mm PC-E Lens
Post by: archman on September 24, 2012, 06:14:19 AM
So no Nikon 17mm PC-E Lens at Photokina.  Will Nikon just release it whenever they have it ready or wait till the next photo industry event? It is coming I hope!!
Title: Re: Nikon 17mm PC-E Lens
Post by: archman on October 09, 2012, 04:03:27 AM
When is the next Nikon 'event' where this lens might be released or is such a niche lens they will just make it available when they are good and ready.?  I just wish they would hurry up!
Title: Re: Nikon 17mm PC-E Lens
Post by: BernardLanguillier on October 09, 2012, 07:20:36 AM
When is the next Nikon 'event' where this lens might be released or is such a niche lens they will just make it available when they are good and ready.?  I just wish they would hurry up!

Their releases have been pretty much random but it seems that the alignment of mars and jupiter might influence.  ;D

Now, last year events did obviously impact their roadmap tremendously so who knows.

They may as well have released this patent just to entice some Canon shooters lurked by the D800.  ;)

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: Nikon 17mm PC-E Lens
Post by: archman on November 12, 2012, 06:18:37 PM
Come on Nikon, where's the 17mm PC-E Lens!
Title: Re: Nikon 17mm PC-E Lens
Post by: HarperPhotos on November 12, 2012, 06:23:20 PM
Hello,

I will second that.

Cheers

Simon
Title: Re: Nikon 17mm PC-E Lens
Post by: archman on December 07, 2012, 08:18:19 PM
still nothing >:(
Title: Re: Nikon 17mm PC-E Lens
Post by: spotmeter on December 09, 2012, 06:08:26 PM
Coming over from Canon, which has its spectacular new 24mm tilt-shift, to Nikon D800E, my first thought was to purchase the Nikon version.

What a disappointment. It had the worst corners of any 24 or 25mm lens I have ever tested.  Full of CA, smeary, distorted--just pathetic.

And this was unshifted!  Lord knows what the corners would look like once it is shifted.

But I will never find out, as I returned it before it infected any of my other Nikon lens.

I, for one, could care less if Nikon came out with 17mm tilt-shift. If they can't build a decent 24mm, what chance do they have at 17mm?

My old f2.8 Zeiss 25mm and the new Zeiss f2 25mm were also not good in the corners--but not nearly as bad as the Nikon.  The new Zeiss got high ratings from LensRental, but my copy was returned as unusable.

Surprisingly, the Nikon 24mm is really good all over and is a keeper.

Shows once again you have to test every lens.
Title: Re: Nikon 17mm PC-E Lens
Post by: Ellis Vener on December 09, 2012, 06:26:28 PM
"It had the worst corners of any 24 or 25mm lens I have ever tested.  Full of CA, smeary, distorted--just pathetic.

And this was unshifted!  Lord knows what the corners would look like once it is shifted."

Did you try more than one example or are you blasting all 24mm PCE lenses to Perdition based on a single sample?
Title: Re: Nikon 17mm PC-E Lens
Post by: BernardLanguillier on December 09, 2012, 06:50:24 PM
"It had the worst corners of any 24 or 25mm lens I have ever tested.  Full of CA, smeary, distorted--just pathetic.

And this was unshifted!  Lord knows what the corners would look like once it is shifted."

Did you try more than one example or are you blasting all 24mm PCE lenses to Perdition based on a single sample?

Same question here... I own both the 24mm f1.4 and the 24mm T/S. Both are through the roof good with a slight edge for the T/S at landscape apertures which makes sense since the f1.4 was optimized for shooting close to wide open.

It is true that the T/S is weak in the corners shifted though.
Title: Re: Nikon 17mm PC-E Lens
Post by: spotmeter on December 09, 2012, 07:17:23 PM
I was so shocked by the poor corner performance of the 24 PC (considering that I wasn't really looking at the corners of the lens since it was unshifted) that I returned it without ordering another sample. Other reviewers were not happy with their copy either. And what good is a PC lens when the corners on presumably a good sample are poor when it is shifted, as noted by the reviewer above.

If only we could adapt Canon TS lenses to the Nikon D800E!
Title: Re: Nikon 17mm PC-E Lens
Post by: kers on December 09, 2012, 07:43:05 PM
Still using this 24PCE for a long time.. i would suggest to use it with liveview - control the whole image for sharpness at d8 ( reflecting you have to choose sharpness more around the corners than in the centre) and shoot at d9-10..
I admit it is not the most quick procedure getting a shot, but the results will be a lot better. The lens has a problem with field curvature but can be very sharp.
From tests i see that the Canon is more straightforward with less Ca shifted but for sure they did not put the focus on the edges...ergo follow the procedure i just mentioned.
Yes it is a difficult lens to use and could be updated in my opinion with a better (more expensive) lens.



Title: Re: Nikon 17mm PC-E Lens
Post by: archman on February 20, 2013, 08:45:45 PM
Is this lens EVER going to be released?
Title: Re: Nikon 17mm PC-E Lens
Post by: Rob C on February 21, 2013, 04:11:20 AM
"It had the worst corners of any 24 or 25mm lens I have ever tested.  Full of CA, smeary, distorted--just pathetic.

And this was unshifted!  Lord knows what the corners would look like once it is shifted."

Did you try more than one example or are you blasting all 24mm PCE lenses to Perdition based on a single sample?


Just come across this thread.

I think that would be a justified stance.

I don’t now what sort of city some of you folks live in, but I’ve never been in one where a dealer would be perfectly happy to accept back from the purchaser lens after lens. Especially specialist, hgh value lenses such as these. Apart from it looking as if the purchaser is just renting for the occasion, who carries such stock? Almost everyone appears unable to stock much of anything at all, and waiting times are the apparent norm.

The problem doesn’t lie with the buyer or the dealer: the problem is the responsibility of the manufacturer.

It is totally unacceptable that a lens leaves the factory without a final quality inspection. Period. That photographers accept this, even think it normal, does little to push manufacturers to resolve problems.

It certainly does the makers no good at all. I bought a 24mm-70mm G Nikkor, designed for FF, and returned it very soon because tested on a D200 (cut-frame) it was hopeless. I shall never buy another zoom. Now, who loses? Both of us. Reports suggest one of two things: my copy was a lemon; other photographers have lower expectational standards. Either way, Nikon has lost another ‘perhaps’ purchaser of a zoom of any range.

Rob C



Title: Re: Nikon 17mm PC-E Lens
Post by: archman on June 13, 2013, 12:46:24 AM
Still no 17mm T/S.  Is this lens EVER going to be released?
Title: Re: Nikon 17mm PC-E Lens
Post by: stevesanacore on June 14, 2013, 08:57:45 AM

I've rented the Nikon 24 PCE many times recently on architectural jobs and found the performance acceptable on the D800E. It's not as good as Canon's version but the final images are at least equal probably because of the superior sensor in the Nikon. Nikon certainly needs to upgrade this lens and release a super 17mm version. Until they do, I'll continue to carry my Canon 5D3 with it's 17mm along also. What will come first - a 17mm Nikon PCE? Or a 40+MP Canon with no AA filter? These are exciting times!

Title: Re: Nikon 17mm PC-E Lens
Post by: Kirk Gittings on June 14, 2013, 10:21:17 AM

Did you try more than one example or are you blasting all 24mm PCE lenses to Perdition based on a single sample?

Not picking on you as I am guilty of this too.

I have to say that I HATE the fact that quality control is so bad that hunting for a good sample of a lens that costs a pretty penny is even necessary! WTF! What suckers we are to accept this as NORMAL and berate someone for not doing it! Ridiculous!
Title: Re: Nikon 17mm PC-E Lens
Post by: RomanN. on June 14, 2013, 04:22:04 PM
My experiances with the Nikon 24 mm are as the most people: it is simply poor lens, for what it is made and when it is made.
The unsharp corners for a shift lens even without movements  it is simply no go! The center is sharp, but it is not a portrait lens.
I use no a second copy, it is not good, but I can use it. I still wait for the new schneider 28 mm-it should be available soon.
The optik quality similar to sigma 1,4-35 mm ( not the poor and not working AF), but as a wider shift lens would be a real dream.
Nikon and 17 mm shift lens- this is really funny imagination, maybe first make a usable 24 mm.

Title: Re: Nikon 17mm PC-E Lens
Post by: archman on February 19, 2014, 03:16:40 AM
It pains me to realise that this is what I posted nearly one year ago!
Is this lens EVER going to be released?
Title: Re: Nikon 17mm PC-E Lens
Post by: rainer_v on February 19, 2014, 02:13:41 PM
i just sold all my nikon stuff including the 45 and 24PC-e lenses.
the 24pc-e is acceptable, but no comparison with the canon 24tse. now, after the sony a7r finally i can use the canon shifts again on a good sensor. time to leave the nikon boat which i just entered for the great 36mp sensor of the d800e.
Title: Re: Nikon 17mm PC-E Lens
Post by: rethmeier on February 21, 2014, 05:49:27 AM
Rainer,
good to see you're still around at the forums.
All this brings me back to the first days of trying non Canon lenses on the Canon 1Ds, Mk2Mk3 5D 1-2-3.
Main reason is for this, Nikon didn't have a good full frame digital.
Then Nikon had the D3x, which I'm still using and does the job.
Now the Sony is the king of the hill.

What will happen next :)

Nikon 4DX  with a new Sony sensor that will kill the rest.
New Nikkors  PC lenses 17 - 24 - 35-45-85 ( Now that would be nice!)
Actually, the PC-E 85 is stellar anyway. I use it for all my product shoots.
Even the 45 PC-E is very usable,once you remove the CA.
The current 24 PC-E is certainly good enough, however the lens I use the most is the 14-24 Nikkor.
Love!
Happy shooting!
W



Title: Re: Nikon 17mm PC-E Lens
Post by: JohnBrew on February 21, 2014, 07:27:36 AM
While there are those who argue for a 17 in F-mount, I'm on record as wishing for a total re-design of the existing PC-E line-up. They don't offer much for the money, imo. I've shot the 24, 45 (two separate times) and the 90 Schneider. The Nikon's knobs are too small, don't work well and in a well-used example will not hold a setting and they have much sample variation. The Schneider which certainly resembles the Leica 120 TS for S series, was extremely difficult to work with and impossible to use with gloves, also my example back-focused. The shift worked well, but the tilt was reluctant to work in concert with the shift. You have to try it to see what I mean. Therefore I don't have any great expectations for the new 28.
For me the old Ai and Ais Nikon shift lenses work the best.
Title: Re: Nikon 17mm PC-E Lens
Post by: archman on June 03, 2014, 10:12:38 PM
Two years since the patent news and no lens. Comments anyone?
Title: Re: Nikon 17mm PC-E Lens
Post by: jwstl on June 04, 2014, 12:59:18 AM
Two years since the patent news and no lens. Comments anyone?

It's a Photokina year.
Title: Re: Nikon 17mm PC-E Lens
Post by: rainer_v on June 07, 2014, 04:59:47 AM
just bought two hartblei-zeiss lenses, the 80 and the 120 pc ts .
they have a great handling and image quality.
zero ca, very good bokeh, sharp at f11 till the shifted corners.
Title: Re: Nikon 17mm PC-E Lens
Post by: David Eichler on June 07, 2014, 02:22:10 PM
From what I have read about the 24mm PCE Nikor, I think Nikon and its customers would be better served if Nikon improved this lens before attempting a 17mm pc lens.

Also, I think I would find a 20mm pc much more useful than a 17mm pc lens. Then, the next step up in focal length should be 28mm, which I think I would find a little more practical as a "standard" wideangle lens for architectural or landscape photography. Naturally, tastes will differ.
Title: Re: Nikon 17mm PC-E Lens
Post by: nik on June 07, 2014, 11:15:47 PM
I'm considering doing the same thing.

Nikon simply are not thinking correctly regarding lenses. They have done themselves damage by releasing a good sensor camera (d800e) which makes the 24 and the rest of the PC-e lenses look average (performance wise) and not refreshing the PC-e range by now. For me, the existing focal lengths are more useful than the 17mm, but it would be good to be able to rent the 17 for when needed. The newer canon's simply are better lenses when coupled with a good sensor and the 17mm exists today.

I did consider the 3 Hartblei T/S lenses for a while but wanted to try them before I paid 10k+ euro but could not do so being on the USA west coast. I think a high MP non-AA filter Canon will be released before Nikon releases a 17 PC-e. Even if Nikon do, they still need to refresh the rest of the PC-e line - which will take them years. I hope, for the benefit of all, they prove me wrong.

I think you did the right thing.


i just sold all my nikon stuff including the 45 and 24PC-e lenses.
the 24pc-e is acceptable, but no comparison with the canon 24tse. now, after the sony a7r finally i can use the canon shifts again on a good sensor. time to leave the nikon boat which i just entered for the great 36mp sensor of the d800e.
Title: Re: Nikon 17mm PC-E Lens
Post by: David Anderson on June 17, 2014, 08:03:52 PM
"It had the worst corners of any 24 or 25mm lens I have ever tested.  Full of CA, smeary, distorted--just pathetic.

And this was unshifted!  Lord knows what the corners would look like once it is shifted."

Did you try more than one example or are you blasting all 24mm PCE lenses to Perdition based on a single sample?

To be fair, all example of lenses in this price range should be good right out of the box IMHO.
Is it our job or Nikons to test the build quality of there products ?

Title: Re: Nikon 17mm PC-E Lens
Post by: stevesanacore on June 25, 2014, 09:19:30 AM
i just sold all my nikon stuff including the 45 and 24PC-e lenses.
the 24pc-e is acceptable, but no comparison with the canon 24tse. now, after the sony a7r finally i can use the canon shifts again on a good sensor. time to leave the nikon boat which i just entered for the great 36mp sensor of the d800e.

I think it's our only choice at the moment. I hope Nikon doesn't miss us because it's their fault for not building the few lenses we needed when they had all us Canon users back again. I shot Nikon for many years before Canon introduced the 1Ds which changed everything. The D800 was a game changer but they needed to follow it up with new shift lenses. The Sony is the best option for sure as it can use almost any lens ever made with adapters. I just hope C1 will get their software to work tethered with it and offer live view!
Title: Re: Nikon 17mm PC-E Lens
Post by: John MacLean on July 01, 2014, 03:08:56 AM
To be fair, all example of lenses in this price range should be good right out of the box IMHO.
Is it our job or Nikons to test the build quality of there products ?



I just sent back a TS-E 24mm MkII because it had soft sides. I've owned the TS-E 17mm since it came out, and it's beautiful. From the tests I've seen, I was expecting this 24 to be even better. And now I wait, because it's on back-order, again…

http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/ISO-12233-Sample-Crops.aspx?Lens=486&Camera=453&Sample=0&FLI=0&API=3&LensComp=487&CameraComp=453&SampleComp=0&FLIComp=0&APIComp=3
Title: Re: Nikon 17mm PC-E Lens
Post by: trevarthan on August 11, 2014, 12:45:27 AM
I probably don't know what I'm doing still, but I've owned both the 85mm PC-e and the 24mm PC-e for about four years. I've just started shooting landscapes (night cityscapes really) and I really like my 24mm PC-e for this. I do notice softness in the corners a bit, sometimes. And the shift lock knob is a joke. It's useless.

But optically, it's very similar to my 24mm 1.4g stopped down to f5.6. If canon makes them considerably better, they must be really amazing. Maybe I lucked out and got a good one. Or maybe I just remember how crappy my little 24mm f2.8 AI-S was in the corners and I just can't complain.

I'd like to see a 17mm t/s. I'd buy it. I'm not sure how often I'd use it, but probably pretty often if it was good optically and I could get a polarizer on there.

I'm not sure what all of this 28mm and 30mm talk is about. I love 24mm. Those other lengths are really really close. I don't understand why they matter. But then, I mostly shoot primes, and 24mm and 85mm are the only two focal lengths I really love. Well, I love 200mm too, but I need a ham radio to direct the model at that length.
Title: Re: Nikon 17mm PC-E Lens
Post by: John MacLean on August 11, 2014, 01:00:39 AM
Well, I love 200mm too, but I need a ham radio to direct the model at that length.

I have my Amateur Radio General license, so let me know if you ever need a model wrangler!  ;)

John
KC5JIA
Title: Re: Nikon 17mm PC-E Lens
Post by: alan_b on August 11, 2014, 02:24:55 AM
 >:(

Dammit! Every time this thread gets bumped, I get excited thinking I'll actually be able to buy one soon.

Fool me once... er... 41 times!
Title: Re: Nikon 17mm PC-E Lens
Post by: alan_b on July 27, 2016, 02:33:41 AM
Is it really going to happen this time?  :o
http://nikonrumors.com/2016/07/25/more-nikon-rumors-new-nikkor-19mm-tilt-shift-lens.aspx/ (http://nikonrumors.com/2016/07/25/more-nikon-rumors-new-nikkor-19mm-tilt-shift-lens.aspx/)

I wonder why the change to 19mm? Better performance? Cheaper? Filter threads?
Title: Re: Nikon 17mm PC-E Lens
Post by: BernardLanguillier on July 27, 2016, 11:48:52 AM
My guess would in depth market research with architecture photographers looking ino the % of images shot with 17mm T/S lenses that end up being cropped significantly?

I'd be interested to hear comments from our resident experts?

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: Nikon 17mm PC-E Lens
Post by: MoreOrLess on July 27, 2016, 02:04:28 PM
I have seen quite a few people express an interest in a 20mm tilt/shift lens in the past to cover a lot of the work done with a 17mm and 24mm, a bit two birds with one stone for Nikon as well as along with covering the UWA gap the 24mm they have now doesn't seem that well regarded.
Title: Re: Nikon 17mm PC-E Lens
Post by: Jan K. on July 28, 2016, 10:02:41 AM
Not a word of independent tilt and shift movements?
Title: Re: Nikon 17mm PC-E Lens
Post by: BernardLanguillier on July 28, 2016, 10:09:45 AM
Not a word of independent tilt and shift movements?

Releasing a new T/S design in 2016 without this would be idiotic.

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: Nikon 17mm PC-E Lens
Post by: Jan K. on July 28, 2016, 11:02:45 AM
So... probably not?  ::)
Title: Re: Nikon 17mm PC-E Lens
Post by: BernardLanguillier on July 28, 2016, 11:08:13 AM
So... probably not?  ::)

Exactly! :)

Cheers,
Bernard