Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs – and Large Sensor Photography => Topic started by: heinrichvoelkel on September 18, 2012, 08:38:10 am
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http://www.bjp-online.com/british-journal-of-photography/news/2206278/photokina-2012-hasselblad-to-launch-mirrorless-compact-camera (http://www.bjp-online.com/british-journal-of-photography/news/2206278/photokina-2012-hasselblad-to-launch-mirrorless-compact-camera)
this is the major disappointment of Photokina so far. now hasselblad is slapping their logo on some sony cams.
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Agree. Ugly on top of it, but that is a personal observation.
It shows on the other hand, how little money they make that they have to do this.
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It is essentially just an nex 7, but the good part of this is that hasselblad may design some good lenses fot the NEX, that is the one reason I have stayed away.
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True.
"I have long held a desire to enable every fan of the iconic Hasselblad brand to have the opportunity to own one of our cameras. Our mission remains focused on the development of exceptional products at the very top end of the market segments in which we operate. The Lunar camera extends the ongoing partnership and cooperation strategy with leading companies around the world."
Hasselblad CEO
next year they will do tripods, bags and coffee mugs.
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but the good part of this is that hasselblad may design some good lenses fot the NEX
i think they rely on Schneider to do this http://photorumors.com/2012/09/17/schneider-kreuznach-announced-three-micro-four-thirds-lenses/ (http://photorumors.com/2012/09/17/schneider-kreuznach-announced-three-micro-four-thirds-lenses/)
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CaNikon take over MF market share gradually, step by step and Phase One at least has the backs so they can survive somehow.. so Hassy guys thought over and over what can they offer to survive.. and what did they come up with? now they will be selling the TRADEMARK. hats off, clap, clap
Victor is rolling in his grave..
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http://www.hasselblad-lunar.com (http://www.hasselblad-lunar.com)
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I can say only
WOW ;D
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I understand that the native program for Raw files are Phocus 2.7 8)
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There will be nothing NEW this Photokina and this is the proof...
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I'm finding it impossible to reconcile these two statements from that article:
"a camera embracing traditional Hasselblad state-of-the-art image capture"
and
"both compact E-mount and the larger professional A-mount lenses," produced by Sony...The camera will borrow most of its features from Sony's NEX 7 camera, such as its APS-C 24.3-megapixel sensor, the Bionz processor, the Tru-Finder OLED viezfinder, as well as the ultra-bright high-definition three-inch swivel display."
So Sony lenses + Sony sensor + Sony processor + Sony viewfinder + Sony LCD = "traditional Hasselblad state-of-the-art image capture"
???
Ray
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Looking at the pictures online a bit more, it almost looks like there could be an NEX-7 body hiding beneath the Carbon fibre and gold, that wouldn't be a bad mark up for what would essentially be a leaky underwater housing.
The grip does look aewsome though, but something you could probably buy as an accessory for the nex soon enough.....maybe someone in china has the wood mills working right now.
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Reminds me of the Leica (erhm Panasonic) compact cameras
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i think they rely on Schneider to do this http://photorumors.com/2012/09/17/schneider-kreuznach-announced-three-micro-four-thirds-lenses/ (http://photorumors.com/2012/09/17/schneider-kreuznach-announced-three-micro-four-thirds-lenses/)
and Zeiss http://blogs.zeiss.com/photo/en/?p=2864 (http://blogs.zeiss.com/photo/en/?p=2864)
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It is essentially just an nex 7, but the good part of this is that hasselblad may design some good lenses fot the NEX, that is the one reason I have stayed away.
Hasselblad does not really design lenses. They do have form what they have said one lens designer.... it takes far more than one lens designer to compete with today's top
lens manufacturers.
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This announcement is really sad and reveals what is really going on with the Ventiz venture capital purchase of Hasselblad.
They are simply going to cash in on the brand and try to make money selling other peoples cameras with a higher price tag
just for the name and playing games with the skin of the camera.
Those designs look horrible.
The announcement is also funny.... all this hullaballoo to announce that they are dressing up Sony cameras and all they have is
a few drawings.
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I agree with everything except that the camera is ugly.
This camera is ahead of our time. Hasselblad's first camera was as modern. This is come back to roots. (Certainly in terms of approach to the design)
I am sure they will find many buyers. It may not be what I expected. But I like it.
8)
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I agree with everything except that the camera is ugly.
This camera is ahead of our time. Hasselblad's first camera was as modern. This is come back to roots. (Certainly in terms of approach to the design)
I am sure they will find many buyers. It may not be what I expected. But I like it.
8)
Looks are subjective, but I think they are going the wrong way. The trend has been towards a more retro time tested functional design.
More the look of a tool and instrument. I find that the current drawings look no more than a pimped up NEX.
Also I can just imaging in the stores. Hasselblad and a Sony NEX. The Hasselblad all pimped up and with a look that will be subjective.
On the other hand the Sony with it's more functional and neutral design and most likely way less expensive. I think we all know what is going to sell more.
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Very seriously, I think something real bad is happening to the medium format industry. This totally lunatic project from the world's leader of digital medium format crushes my hopes for the survival of this media. A glorified avant-garde Nex 7 for $6k? If this is one Hasselblad's important announcement at the most prestigious show on earth their survival as a camera maker (or possibly just as a brand) is fuzzy. MF is already doomed. It is just a matter of time. My money will go somewhere else.
Meanwhile, I think the Leica M is the most exciting announcement at Photokina this year. The amazing Leica lenses in complicity with a 24 mp sensor and LV focusing, may well be even closer to MF quality than the D800.
It used to be only Canikon. Now we can add Leica. Nice threesome!
:o
Eduardo
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This is pure exploitation of the Hasselblad's brand capital - a classic move by short sighted MBA types who don't plan to be in it for the long haul. HB built this capital up over many generations and the sad thing is that once this capital is spent, it's gone forever.
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http://www.dpreview.com/news/2012/09/18/sony-and-hasselblad-announce-partnership-dslr
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The transition to boutique aspirational brand is complete. I knew this was going to happen as its the only real avenue open to a company that is limited by a dwindling market, what the sensor manufacturers produce and their own vision.
I just failed to guess the finish. I thought it would be ostrich leather and carbon fibre or perhaps titanium.
Edit. Just scrolled down and noticed the carbon weave version. ::)
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I wonder what will be the distribution system. The dealer network, or rather large retail chains ::)
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This is pure exploitation of the Hasselblad's brand capital - a classic move by short sighted MBA types who don't plan to be in it for the long haul. HB built this capital up over many generations and the sad thing is that once this capital is spent, it's gone forever.
Totally agree with this. The idiots (aka accountants and venture capitalists) who run and own the company ought to be shot.
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This combination of colors is not really the happiest. Once I showed something like this ...
(http://2.static.img-dpreview.com/files/news/8207632916/Lunar4.jpg?v=1584)
BUT
Carbon, titanium, wood ....
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I would be embarrassed to show that even as a prototype. The fit and finish is terrible - look at the seam where the leather meets the top. And the lens clearly does not match. This looks worse than a school design project done the night before ( IMHO ). Should we take this seriously?
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Will the leather go the same way of the shoddy rubber grips on H cameras?
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That looks like a cheap prop for a scifi channel low budget production... does it have a phaser ;)
The klingons will be lining up for this one.
(http://2.static.img-dpreview.com/files/news/8207632916/Lunar4.jpg?v=1584)
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Instead of making these aspirational baubles for middle management why don't they develop a MF sized sensor based on Sony technology? A real photographic tool for photographers that would finally deliver real live view and high iso performance to MF.
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I guess the Lunatic will have Viktor make another turn in his grave... ::)
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Wait wait... now I get it... pure genius!
First Hasselblad launched Hasselblad TV
Then they Pimp out Sony Cameras
Next partnership is with MTV and this guy!
(http://mtv.mtvnimages.com/onair/pimp_my_ride/season6/NEW_main_image_6_07/pimp-my-ride_281x211.jpg?quality=0.85)
And Hasselblad enters the world of reality "TV Pimp my Sony" hit show on Hasselblad TV ....
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Class:
(http://media.digitalcameraworld.com/files/2012/02/olympus-omd-front-lens-728-75.jpg)
No class:
(http://2.static.img-dpreview.com/files/news/8207632916/Lunar4.jpg?v=1584)
But the real thing to note is that Olympus made a new camera despite much tougher circumstances that Hasselblad's.
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Agreed. The chrome OM-D is even classier. Just one beautifully designed camera.
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"Lunatic" +1 !
And +1 for OM-D too. Really nice looking camera.
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True.
"I have long held a desire to enable every fan of the iconic Hasselblad brand to have the opportunity to own one of our cameras. Our mission remains focused on the development of exceptional products at the very top end of the market segments in which we operate. The Lunar camera extends the ongoing partnership and cooperation strategy with leading companies around the world."
Hasselblad CEO
next year they will do tripods, bags and coffee mugs.
lol well they already have made bags, just for their cameras....and tripod clamps for their dovetail mount...so I'll start saving up for their coffee mug
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there is only one thing missing...
Diamonds
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I don't know - it looks pretty good compared to some of the rejected prototypes: :o ;D
(http://www.templates.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/Steampunk-Camera-by-Michael-Grote.jpg)
(http://www.oddee.com/_media/imgs/articles2/a97670_g234_5-camera.jpg)
(http://img0.etsystatic.com/000/0/5257064/il_fullxfull.310729356.jpg)
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No - some of swarovsky glass deko......
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People seem to forget that Hasselblad has a long tradition of offering luxurious version of their classic cameras, thus this is nothing new for them. For instance:
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Disappointing. Truly a missed opportunity. Would like to have seen a smart, purposeful photographers' tool -- maybe a serious evolutionary step based on something like the Mamiya 7ii.
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People seem to forget that Hasselblad has a long tradition of offering luxurious version of their classic cameras, thus this is nothing new for them. For instance:
Paint Jobs.
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Man! I had this terrible yet funny dream that Blad took a NEX-7, and used Gorilla Glue to mount all this crap on the camera, and then had the BALLS to charge like $5k for it!
Wait, its real?
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As you can see, even a good design may be disfigured...
Say it was a joke!
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Man! I had this terrible yet funny dream that Blad took a NEX-7, and used Gorilla Glue to mount all this crap on the camera, and then had the BALLS to charge like $5k for it!
Wait, its real?
Don't worry these guys will come up with a fix fro the Lunatic...
http://www.campbellcameras.com/shopping/Departments/Camera-Accessories/Camo-Skins.aspx (http://www.campbellcameras.com/shopping/Departments/Camera-Accessories/Camo-Skins.aspx)
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Gidday,
I would like to know what the guy’s in R&D where smoking when they came up with this monstrosity. Maybe they where on a field trip to Amsterdam when they design it.
Cheers
Simon
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The trend has been towards a more retro time tested functional design.
OTOH our cameras have functionally evolved : no more film spools to hold, no back to open...
And a big grip still makes some functional sense.
(http://photorumors.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/Hasselblad-Lunar-camera.jpg)
That said, that looks a bit like hot rod at its worst (if you read french... (http://www.zejackytouch.com/) caution advisory : some images can hurt).
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Other Pimp My Sony jobs on the way....
(http://photorumors.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/Hasselblad-A-mount-camera.jpg)
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For me the best design for the H system, it just to see a H4D Ferrari with no saturation... in pure BLACK and WHITE !!!
And i call it H4D " VICTOR BLACK MARS" and maybe if was a entry level 31MP kit for 8.000USD and i think that would sell like pancakes!!!
(http://imageshack.us/a/img684/4521/hasselblad.jpg)
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I always thought the Fuji GX645AF cameras looked much better than H1, H2, etc.
-edit-
A few months back I anticipated the Photokina a bit.. now I anticipate it even more but in an ill manner- it will be one big laugh.
Phase guys trying to sell ever so slightly better DF+ camera convincing us that 'hey, it takes 17 years to develop a new camera body! be grateful with what we've done in last few years with this new DF+ beauty!'. Then Leica comes into stage with a camera with the same sensor they had, 2 minute max exposures and no live view, but hey, we'll charge extra because it's 2012. And then the highlight of whole Photokina, Hassy's ugliest camera ever, backed up by H5D a.k.a. 'oh look Phase One, we also revamped our camera!'
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I always thought the Fuji GX645AF cameras looked much better than H1, H2, etc.
I think that "H5D" design is ok. Even Hasselblad Lunar is nice , but I can't understand who allowed to show such bad example combinations of materials and colors, even if it is possible to choose by customer...
How could screw up such a good design
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(http://img826.imageshack.us/img826/5066/photokina1.jpg)
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Hasselblad calls their new pimed out Sony the Lunar and had a H4 edition caller the black Mars or something, all space names... however these days it's Nikons going into space
http://www.petapixel.com/2012/09/07/photographs-of-astronauts-using-dslrs-on-spacewalks/ (http://www.petapixel.com/2012/09/07/photographs-of-astronauts-using-dslrs-on-spacewalks/)
(http://nikonrumors.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/Nikon-gear-in-space.jpg)
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I think we ALL need to send Hassy an email and tell them how disappointed we are. I can't believe they would even release such overpriced crap. Has Hasselblad finally jumped the shark???
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Already done!
What were they thinking???
As for the digital X-pan that never arrived. I believe the original 24x65mm format lenses would cover the 36x56 format of the sensor in the Aptus 10, so the elements exist, whilst I appreciate it would take some effort to bring them to fruition, anything would be better than this.
Jason Berge.
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(http://photorumors.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/Hasselblad-A-mount-camera.jpg)
Let's apply Hasselblad markup percentage to this ugly duckling...
IF...
Sony Nex $1000
Hassy Lunar suggested price $6,000
Would that mean...
Sony a99 $2,800
Hassy A99 Pimped $ 2,800 x 6= $ 16,800
That's twice as much as a Pentax 645D ???
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People seem to forget that Hasselblad has a long tradition of offering luxurious version of their classic cameras, thus this is nothing new for them. For instance:
You're right.
I am not a fan of "Ferrari Edition" but now I think it is beautiful in comparison with some individual combinations of the latest camera. These ugly versions of new cameras are probably destined for the Asian market, Middle East. I'm sure that this is a result of bad taste of people who had lived many years in Asia and England.
I understand that they want to show that every combination is possible. But I think that showing such things in Europe is a little bit stupid.
You just showed a good example of a classic camera in blue. Maybe it would be a more appropriate way - limited versions of classic cameras. Lime, blue , angry yellow - would be really cool.
There is one rule, do not give the customer what they wants - because the clients usually does not know what they want
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I also think that the cooperation of these companies can be really good.
In the end will settle some of the latest technology to MF. I hope so!
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I also think that the cooperation of these companies can be really good.
In the end will settle some of the latest technology to MF. I hope so!
Unfortunately I don't see that as likely, i e MF CMOS sensor from Sony which is what everyone would like to see. Collaboration will probably be isolated to this one product.
There's entirely different economics in rebadging an existing mass-market product to making something unique for the niche market that MF digital is. Sony doesn't need to do much at all for Lunar to happen. Making a CMOS sensor of MF size is something entirely different....
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Unfortunately I don't see that as likely, i e MF CMOS sensor from Sony which is what everyone would like to see. Collaboration will probably be isolated to this one product.
There's entirely different economics in rebadging an existing mass-market product to making something unique for the niche market that MF digital is. Sony doesn't need to do much at all for Lunar to happen. Making a CMOS sensor of MF size is something entirely different....
Sony maybe will do it for the prestige. As Bugatti Veyron, they produce just to show that it is possible. I'd really like that to happen, but if it is as you say - it's definitely the end of the company in my eyes
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Sony maybe will do it for the prestige. As Bugatti Veyron, they produce just to show that it is possible. I'd really like that to happen, but if it is as you say - it's definitely the end of the company in my eyes
I do hope I'm wrong, it's just my best realistic guess...
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I think that this "Lunar Madness" its only target to emerging markets like CHINA/INDIA/RUSSIA with New Fat Wallets Rich's people who just want to show off with the most expensive Camera / watch / Car in there hands !
Maybe this wil became a good thing to us, really people/professionals with passion for the best technical tools, because this can give a big boost in incoming cash from this segment and the Hasselblad can give us in the future the best DMF H6D with cheap prices, and don´t need to pay for 250$ for a lithium battery or charger...
Hasselblad its my love brand, and historical made several revolutions in this segment, but we need to understand that the photomarket its now very very different and some marketing choices have to be done for the survive of every brand !!!
The Leica have done this with panasonic re-brand and money come !!!
I dont like the Lunar Camera, but i would like to see a rich geek with a 5000$ rebrand hasselblad, and thinking - "great ! people like you are giving the money for R&D for my next H6D" !!!!
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The new Hasselblad Lunar camera wins its first award ...
http://htv.hasselblad.com/video/digit-photokina-2012-star-award-hasselblad-lunar?current-channel=all-channels
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I would be OK to give the H5D a design award, but surely not this.
And we were dreaming of a digital XPan !!
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The new Hasselblad Lunar camera wins its first award ...
http://htv.hasselblad.com/video/digit-photokina-2012-star-award-hasselblad-lunar?current-channel=all-channels
German magazine, 'digit!', the professional magazine for digital image makers, awards the Hasselblad Lunar camera with the photokina 2012 Star Award for 'Highlight of photokina 2012'.
Yea... it was f@#king hysterical....
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I was expecting another rebranding, the X-PRO1.
Of course, digital X-Pan is a product that many have been waiting for. On the other hand, I wonder if the limited edition of "X-Pan" would not be a solution for today. (analog) I am convinced that it would sell very well. Certainly the elimination of lead would be much cheaper than the creation of a digital camera.
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I think that this "Lunar Madness" its only target to emerging markets like CHINA/INDIA/RUSSIA with New Fat Wallets Rich's people who just want to show off with the most expensive Camera / watch / Car in there hands !...
Indeed!
Golden cars on Moscow streets (http://www.beautifullife.info/automotive-design/golden-cars-on-moscow-streets/)
From the article:
This Porsche 911 turbo is also from Russia. His owner was not satisfied with the auto at the cost of $200.000 and he decided to cover it with golden plates. Twenty kilograms of pure gold was spent on this Porsche 911 tuning. But even this seemed not enough to the owner and the famous Russian designer Denis Simachiev used Russian traditions in the design of this model having painted it with gold using Khokhloma method. The cost of this unique auto is not being told to public.
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All these comments about stupid rich people buying the Lunar are off the mark in my opinion.
The very rich are not stupid. The current world economy is not a "hicks in the oil rush" economy.
The new rich are manufacturers, designers and bankers.
Do people really think that stores are going to sell these cameras to the ever dwindeling list of clients with deep pockets only to have them come back and say that a friend told them that it's an inexpensive NEX that has been pimped up.
For a 10 percent higher price... well that would be a different story, but the numbers at that price would not do the trick.
While Hasselblad is a respected name to high end enthusiasts and pros it is not a known brand among the general public.
We are not talking about Dior or Lous Vitton.
Why the hell do you think Hasselblad had to make the Ferrari versions.... actually because outside of a small clique Hasselblad means almost nothing.
Leica on the other hand having made "necklaces" for years... (lovely small cameras) they have been seen around far more.
Also another big difference is that the Leica has more of an artists aura while Hasselblad has more of a commercial/pro photographer aura.
The rich do invest in art far more than they buy into pretending to be a pro.
Then the biggest flaw in Hasselblad/Ventiz's plan is that it would take no time at all for Nikon, Fuji, Canon to make "luxury" cameras dressed by the big New York, Milan and Paris designers.
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Indeed!
Golden cars on Moscow streets (http://www.beautifullife.info/automotive-design/golden-cars-on-moscow-streets/)
From the article:
This Porsche 911 turbo is also from Russia. His owner was not satisfied with the auto at the cost of $200.000 and he decided to cover it with golden plates. Twenty kilograms of pure gold was spent on this Porsche 911 tuning. But even this seemed not enough to the owner and the famous Russian designer Denis Simachiev used Russian traditions in the design of this model having painted it with gold using Khokhloma method. The cost of this unique auto is not being told to public.
This is a totally different thing.
This is a one off custom job, but it is also has intrinsic value. Gold remains gold.
On the other hand anyone dumb enough to buy a pimped up overpriced Lunar will be able to get one.
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... clients with deep pockets only to have them come back and say that a friend told them that it's an inexpensive NEX that has been pimped up.
For a 10 percent higher price... well that would be a different story...
You, Sir, apparently do not understand fully the nouveau riche mentality. Perhaps a joke could explain it better:
Two "noviy Russkiy" (i.e., nouveau riche in Russian) drink at a bar and one brags to another that he just paid $1,000 for his new tie. The other is utterly bemused: "Are you crazy!!! Why would you pay $1,000 for a tie!? I know a place where you can get the same tie for $5,000." ;D
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I'm not one but recognize the very well off have different tastes and rationale for purchase that appears outwardly to have no logic fiscally. I'm not saying a Lunar makes sense to me at all, and certainly don't expect to see someone carrying this around the streets, but maybe on the opening night of the opera or the Grammys?
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The new Hasselblad Lunar camera wins its first award ...
http://htv.hasselblad.com/video/digit-photokina-2012-star-award-hasselblad-lunar?current-channel=all-channels
This is astounding! I wonder if Ventiz paid for this?
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I love Hasselblad, and maybe now after 2 days of the "Lunar" my feelings its like my 6 years old kid, i allways forget its mistakes...that its a part of growing...
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The biggest problem with Hasselblad's Lunar project is this...
They think they have a market because of the status symbol effect.
The real problem is that when Mr or Mrs. Status symbol pull out the camera the nearest camera enthusiast will quickly point out that it
is a NEX that is re-branded and that the NEX is available for 1/6th of the price and is lighter, smaller and better looking.
Then what you have is a pissed off camera customer with beep pockets going back to the store and kicking up all hell.
So in conclusion the real problem is that camera stores will not want to sell these cameras.
Camera stores prefer to nurture customers with deep pockets. They will also far prefer to sell the customer a new Sony RX1 and a Nikon D800
seeding for additional sales of lenses, accessories and more... all at the same price as the Lunar.
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For weeks leading up to the actual unveiling of this "lunacy," I kept reading about a mirror-less camera with a sensor much larger than "just" full-frame. Is it possible there will be another shoe dropping in the near future?
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http://www.bjp-online.com/british-journal-of-photography/news/2206781/hasselblad-were-not-robbing-people-off-with-lunar-camera
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http://www.bjp-online.com/british-journal-of-photography/news/2206781/hasselblad-were-not-robbing-people-off-with-lunar-camera
Dear Hasselblad... when in a hole, stop digging!
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The new Hasselblad Lunar camera wins its first award ...
Good for them, because they are already facing competition :
http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2012/09/product-announcement-lensrentals-looney
(via TOP (http://theonlinephotographer.typepad.com/the_online_photographer/2012/09/new-term.html))
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Great idea. I write from the Monaco Yacht Show. Ever visited it? There is a large well-heeled market for "prestige" products of all kinds, something Leica has addressed more effectively that Hasselblad to date. Medium format digital is a tiny niche market, whereas a luxury product like this will sit well on the seat of a Bugatti or on board a yacht. Just like some of the yachts I have been privileged to visit today.
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Tocno!! Funy! Maybe Hasselblad can make that Porches' wooden door handles
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The problem is not making products which sell to more people or rather other people than pro's, but you should do this within the boundaries of your brands heritage.
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Who is the brand manager for Blad now? Is it an outside consultancy or in house? As someone who is involved in "brand stewardship" (yeah its ad speak but accurate), the Lunar is a bad, bad, bad move. The brand equity from the H series, V, X-Pan, 1600, Victor H himself and even the wonderfully produced Victor magazine is being damaged. Lots of people bitch about the shortcomings of the H, but these are (mostly) quibbles that affect individual purchasing decions rather than good will towards the brand. Anybody remember GM in the 80's and 90's? A Cadillac Cimeron was a Chevy Something Small and Ugly with cat leather and power seats, for a 10% premium. Same with all of the GM brands back then, just badge changes. I don't think the Obama administration will bail out Blad and allow them to restructure after Vintizz runs it into the ground.
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http://www.bjp-online.com/british-journal-of-photography/news/2206781/hasselblad-were-not-robbing-people-off-with-lunar-camera
This Alessandrini guy is so full of .....
Refering to the Lunar
"For example, the camera's body is made of aluminum. It takes five hours to machine this down.
You can only produce three or four a day, and it costs €300.
The same part, but made of plastic, would cost 35 cents.
So, you could go to Asia and do a similar product for a few hundred euros,
but you would be using cheap materials. Or you could use the right materials and the right processes, but it will have to be priced at €5000, €6000 or €7000."
So he is dumping on Sony's product implying that it is made of cheap materials...
However respectable reviewers spoke very well of the NEX construction
The NEX-7's build quality is excellent - the metal-shelled body feels solid with no flexing or creaks,
and the handgrip is covered with a thick rubberized coating.
The three control dials and most of the buttons are crafted from metal, giving a real quality feel.
The overall impression is of a camera that's designed to provide as much control as possible at your fingertips, with minimal fripperies or gimmicks.
It's really laughable that he talks about going to Asia and that that would be going cheap.....
yet Hasselblad has been manufacturing in Asia for a long time. Hasselblad lenses, Prisms, film backs and many components
are made by Fuji. Much better than the hand made crap I often had to deal with from Sweden. I once had two new 120 Hasselblad V backs
bite chunks out of film. Both were new.
If you really want to see a great MF camera you need to go to Asia. The Contax 645 at it's time was a fantastic camera and is still sought after today.
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Just looked at this, and what a joke. What were Hassy thinking? It looks awful, and is just a re-badged Sony under that horrible exterior. For heaven's sake, they could at least have made a digital one of these ...
(http://www.luminous-landscape.com/images/xpan.jpg)
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Luca Alessandrini's title is Hasselblad's New Business Development Manager.....
Hasselblad is in trouble.
From Linkedin
Experience
New Business Development Manager
Hasselblad
November 2011 – Present (11 months) Hejrevej 30, Copenhagen, Denmark
Brand Manager
Gitzo
June 2005 – November 2011 (6 years 6 months)
Kitchen Appliances Product Manager
De Longhi
1998 – 2001 (3 years)
Kitchen appliances... that explains things a bit.
His previous experience in the photography world... Tripods ???
And he is supposed to save Hasselblad?
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i look at the x-pan, 500 series/zeiss lenses and the SWC and i see precision tools that were built to last.
the fujiblad was the beginning of the decline, launched with bodged scanner software and a harddrive on a strap with a camcorder battery hanging off it, zoom lenses that broke if you took them on a jet plane and had them orientated front to back on take-off/landing (dealer advised to fly with them orientated sideways to avoid it breaking) bits of rubber that went sticky and fell off (eyepiece/grip rubber) i give them a couple of years before H/blad dies.
surprised they survived the recession TBH, that was probably only because phase had not sorted their camera body out and the d800 didn't exist then.
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Luca Alessandrini's title is Hasselblad's New Business Development Manager.....
Hasselblad is in trouble.
From Linkedin
Kitchen appliances... that explains things a bit.
His previous experience in the photography world... Tripods ???
And he is supposed to save Hasselblad?
It is typical of the VC, the fact that he worked in the industry is a guarantee of success of the project. Even if it were tripods. Of course we know that this does not guarantee anything. But even if someone worked at Kodak, it does not mean that he / she is super professional. As well as the fact that he worked for De Longhi, it does not prove that he is a bad professional. You do not know the man, so do not judge him.
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It is typical of the VC, the fact that he worked in the industry is a guarantee of success of the project. Even if it were tripods. Of course we know that this does not guarantee anything. But even if someone worked at Kodak, it does not mean that he / she is super professional. As well as the fact that he worked for De Longhi, it does not prove that he is a bad professional. You do not know the man, so do not judge him.
My point is this... Hasselblad wants to venture into new CAMERA markets and they hire a guy with ZERO camera or consumer electronics experience or know how.
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My point is this... Hasselblad wants to venture into new CAMERA markets and they hire a guy with ZERO camera or consumer electronics experience or know how.
Maybe you have right...
But
He does not direct this company!!
Management is doing it. CEO has the experience, and what? Marketing also has industry experience, and what? They are responsible for it. They form a strategy, they decide to execute this strategy. They hire him. He got a job from them to do this camera, I doubt that he could do everything he can think of.
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Maybe you have right...
But
He does not direct this company!!
Management is doing it. CEO has the experience, and what? Marketing also has industry experience, and what? They are responsible for it. They form a strategy, they decide to execute this strategy. They hire him. He got a job from them to do this camera, I doubt that he could do everything he can think of.
Management is certainly the root of the problem. I find it a bit unusual and dangerous that the CEO Dr. Larry Hansen is also Chairman of The Board.
Hardly a balanced management choice.
This most likely comes from him as he ran Carl Zeiss's Asian operations that were licensing designs to Japanese manufacturers.
While that work was with the Japanese it was a very different product. German optical design with excellent Japanese manufacturing.
This time around they are taking an excellent Japanese design and manufacturing and ruining the design.... and then gouging whoever they try to sell this too while alienating their
historical clients.
Prior to this his time at Hasselblad was pretty much dedicated to killing off the V system and sloooowly making slight changes to the H system.... the Fujiblad.
Seems since his arrival Hasselblad has been going east more and more.
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While this Hasselblad Sony thing is going on... Sony is on the verge of making a huge investment in Olympus.
50 Billion yen. 630 Million Dollars.
Interesting.
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Maybe Hasselblad need to focus on their core product.
No new sensor and no new functionality in too long.
Principal image quality lead is not there anymore either.
Even a $ 2,000 camera is better in many ways.
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8031/8004893732_715c8bd9a4_b.jpg)
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Here's another marketing "fail" for Hasselblad. Apparently the show prototype at Photokina acutally says "Nex-7" when you pull up the info screen on the rear LCD.
See it in this youtube video...
http://youtu.be/W5O6fYcQipw?t=15s
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The more I think about it, the biggest tragedy of this camera is Hasselblad using their outstanding space legacy to promote such a pile of crap. Up until three days ago, the word "Hasselblad" and "Lunar" actually stood for something when used in the same sentence. Now it represents what is perhaps the biggest faux pas in recent photographic memory.
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... Up until three days ago, the word "Hasselblad" and "Lunar" actually stood for something when used in the same sentence...
How true. I actually thought, when this thread appeared, that it must be yet another thread about Moon landing cameras, given that we already had one about it in August (here (http://www.luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?topic=69786.0), if of interest). Only after this thread reached three or four pages, I asked myself what could be so controversial (or new) about Moon landing to warrant four pages of debate (apart from the usual conspiracy theories, that is). So I clicked on it. And was blinded by the monstrosity.
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. . . So I clicked on it. And was blinded by the monstrosity.
Couldn't have said it better.
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This is a nightmare ...
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Lunar and Nex7 side by side
(http://2.static.img-dpreview.com/files/articles/0103877415/P9180486-001.JPG?v=1584)
image from dpreview hasselblad stand report
How do you defend this?
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Lunar and Nex7 side by side
(http://2.static.img-dpreview.com/files/articles/0103877415/P9180486-001.JPG?v=1584)
image from dpreview hasselblad stand report
How do you defend this?
I just puked.
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I was able to admire the wide range of colors and textures of the Lunar in Cologne today. This is a total horror.
PdF
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I just puked.
[/quote
sorry, my pleasure
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Stupid marketing and terrible ignorance >:(
The sense of taste I will not even mention... :'(
The Management Board should resign
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While I agree this camera caught me off guard, I think many here are not understanding the target market.
**For full disclosure, I'm a dealer who sells Hasselblad, Sinar, Phase and Leaf. **
This may very well be the last time many of us hear about the Lunar. I don't believe Hasselblad will be marketing this towards the average shooter. This camera is most likely geared towards the person wishing to buy into the Hasselblad brand. The entire reason for the purchase is due to the brand. This individual probably isn't very technically proficient in digital capture and just likes to "take pictures".
The other end of the spectrum is the pro shooter on the coasts where perceived image is important. One may call it a novelty item, a boutique purchase..whatever. Hasselblad is trying to capitalize on their brand and diversify. I can't fault a company for that. The real winner here may be Sony.
Hasselblad introduced another item that we seem to be overlooking…the H5D. This body has an improved TrueFocus engine, more robust curtain screen, longer battery life, 24mm lens and an awesome macro converter that I got to play with today.
I'm willing to cut them a little slack because they didn't forget about us and addressed many shortcomings to the H4D body.
Denny
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Lunar and Nex7 side by side
(http://2.static.img-dpreview.com/files/articles/0103877415/P9180486-001.JPG?v=1584)
image from dpreview hasselblad stand report
How do you defend this?
It's like they didn't even bother to disassemble the Nex-7 and put the guts into a new housing; they literally just shoved an Nex-7 into a hideous shell!
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While I agree this camera caught me off guard, I think many here are not understanding the target market.
**For full disclosure, I'm a dealer who sells Hasselblad, Sinar, Phase and Leaf. **
This may very well be the last time many of us hear about the Lunar. I don't believe Hasselblad will be marketing this towards the average shooter. This camera is most likely geared towards the person wishing to buy into the Hasselblad brand. The entire reason for the purchase is due to the brand. This individual probably isn't very technically proficient in digital capture and just likes to "take pictures".
The other end of the spectrum is the pro shooter on the coasts where perceived image is important. One may call it a novelty item, a boutique purchase..whatever. Hasselblad is trying to capitalize on their brand and diversify. I can't fault a company for that. The real winner here may be Sony.
Hasselblad introduced another item that we seem to be overlooking…the H5D. This body has an improved TrueFocus engine, more robust curtain screen, longer battery life, 24mm lens and an awesome macro converter that I got to play with today.
I'm willing to cut them a little slack because they didn't forget about us and addressed many shortcomings to the H4D body.
Denny
There are just some things that a premier brand should know better than to do. Ever. Lunar was one of them. The one thing Hasselblad always had going for them, even in the digital world, was timelessness and staying power. All of their products have always been a cut above the rest in absolute quality and functionality (although some may argue that with the H series...). But lets face it. 10 years from now, people will still seek out V series 'Blads and X-pans. Who knows what innovation will come in MFD but so far even the eldest of digital backs and cameras are still holding relatively amazing value compared to their DSLR counterparts and are still sought after by photographers; no small feat considering the often rapid depreciation and trendiness of digital products.
But now, now they have taken one of those rapidly depreciating (and relatively fragile) commodity consumer products and wrapped it in a $5,000 shell. In 5 years an Nex-7 will be long obsolete and worthless just like all other digital consumer products. The fact that is was stuffed into a $5,000 case isn't going to change that.
Kind of reminds me of those Lamborghini body kits that they sold for Pontiac Fiero's back in the 80's. And you don't see those around any more.
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While I agree this camera caught me off guard, I think many here are not understanding the target market.
**For full disclosure, I'm a dealer who sells Hasselblad, Sinar, Phase and Leaf. **
This may very well be the last time many of us hear about the Lunar. I don't believe Hasselblad will be marketing this towards the average shooter. This camera is most likely geared towards the person wishing to buy into the Hasselblad brand. The entire reason for the purchase is due to the brand. This individual probably isn't very technically proficient in digital capture and just likes to "take pictures".
The other end of the spectrum is the pro shooter on the coasts where perceived image is important. One may call it a novelty item, a boutique purchase..whatever. Hasselblad is trying to capitalize on their brand and diversify. I can't fault a company for that. The real winner here may be Sony.
Hasselblad introduced another item that we seem to be overlooking…the H5D. This body has an improved TrueFocus engine, more robust curtain screen, longer battery life, 24mm lens and an awesome macro converter that I got to play with today.
I'm willing to cut them a little slack because they didn't forget about us and addressed many shortcomings to the H4D body.
Denny
Is this a joke? got a new paint? The buttons on the DB changed positions - by the man who had never used the camera...
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In 5 years an Nex-7 will be long obsolete and worthless just like all other digital consumer products. The fact that is was stuffed into a $5,000 case isn't going to change that.
Your making the assumption that this is a concern to Hasselblad or the target market.
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Dear D Semick,
You write about target market ...
Do you know someone who would like to buy it?
(http://2.static.img-dpreview.com/files/news/8207632916/Lunar4.jpg?v=1584)
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Your making the assumption that this is a concern to Hasselblad or the target market.
I get that you are trying to protect a brand you represent, but like a politician trying to defend a gaff; sometimes you just have to call a pig a pig and walk away. The uproar from the photographic community has been immediate and unanimous. This is NOT the type of product that consumers expect from Hasselblad. This is the reason that so many companies will open a new brand for their second tier products. It's so they can run away from them when this happens.
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Come to think of it...this is a brilliant move for.. Sony! If anyone ever had any doubts about NEX design... after seeing this lunacy, Sony looks like the pinnacle of industrial design ;D
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For a moment I thought that they wanted to take a free advertisement. After announce that it was a joke...
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Oh, I finally got it! It must be that Dwight (Dwight Kurt Schrute III, of The Office fame) finally got promoted to his dream position: Chief Marketing Officer of Hasselblad! ;D
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LOL
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I have been fully committed to Hasselblad for a long time, but after this I think maybe the folks at Hasselblad should be committed.
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(http://2.static.img-dpreview.com/files/articles/0103877415/P9180486-001.JPG?v=1584)
Hey they managed to downgrade the eye cup too..
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http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2012/09/product-announcement-lensrentals-looney
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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I think a lot of people are crazy enough to buy this strange camera.
Hasselblad in good financial shape might also gain the MF industry.
If they hadn't done something new they might have been history soon.
Maybe the Lunar will lead to a new H6?
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I get that you are trying to protect a brand you represent, but like a politician trying to defend a gaff; sometimes you just have to call a pig a pig and walk away. The uproar from the photographic community has been immediate and unanimous. This is NOT the type of product that consumers expect from Hasselblad. This is the reason that so many companies will open a new brand for their second tier products. It's so they can run away from them when this happens.
By no means am I trying to protect any brand. I'm just pointing out a different perspective that's all. I really don't believe that this product is intended for "the photographic community"....it's for a different demographic. Hasselblad has chosen to leverage their brand instead of creating a second tier brand. Whether I believe it will be successful, is an entirely different debate that I will not engage in.
I haven't any misconceptions that this product will sell in my market. If anything, our sales associates will tell customers who are looking at the Sony, " This camera is so good that Hasselblad rebranded it as one of their own". This customer will then buy the Sony.
Different market. Different demographic.
Denny
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A brief history of time, in Victor Hasselblad initials:
V - series
H - series
Hahahaha - series
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Dear D Semick,
You write about target market ...
Do you know someone who would like to buy it?
(http://2.static.img-dpreview.com/files/news/8207632916/Lunar4.jpg?v=1584)
Marcus Klinko! Ha!
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This camera will attract a lot of astronauts... they follow a different trend..
Hmmm, Paul Claesson of Hasselblad still did not shine his light here on his new born baby-alien
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I haven't any misconceptions that this product will sell in my market. If anything, our sales associates will tell customers who are looking at the Sony, " This camera is so good that Hasselblad rebranded it as one of their own". This customer will then buy the Sony.
Different market. Different demographic.
Denny
For the sake of Hasselblad, and for dealers like yourself, I hope you are right. But I still feel even if this product is successful it comes with a great cost. Already there are many a current Hasselblad owner beginning to question the future of the company. That is NOT good for a company that is trying to peddle $30,000+ products! If "success" of the Lunar product comes a the cost of H series sales, I'm not sure this benefits anyone in the industry, including photographers. I understand that in todays high tech marketplace it makes sense to partner up with a high tech company. I'm beginning to become highly curious if the Lunar is more a product of Hasselblad or if it's Hasselblad paying the piper for Sony technology. I'm hoping the latter, as the upshot for MF shooters having access to Sony R&D could be tremendous.
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(http://2.static.img-dpreview.com/files/articles/0103877415/P9180486-001.JPG?v=1584)
When this is what Hasselblad comes up with I think that it is quite clear that they do not develop cameras and have not for quite a long time.
Today Hasselblad is putting an ugly skin on someone else.s camera.
They then lie about it with comments like.. "just because we buy components from Sony"
Hasselblad has been very circumvent and unclear about their products and their origins since the XPan.
Never clear or consistent about the design and production of the H.
The current CEO's previous job was about making Zeiss stuff and licencing the brand to Japanese manufacturers.
I wonder just how much else has to come out for people to realize that for many years Hasselblad has been more about the shell and the brand with others making
the gear or most of it.
A friend of mine... a true photography enthusiast with deep pockets and deep culture in gear told me he saw H bodies on a production line at Fuji in Japan when he visited the plant.
Just the total abandonment of the historic square format should have been clear enough.
I think the cat is out of the bag now that they have gone too far...
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Hasselblad it seems preferred to spend it's money on fancy architecture
for their factory rather than invest the moeny towards the product.
Here is the factory empty after Hasselblad when they had to move to a more conventional where house.
http://www.jornmark.se/places_intro.aspx?placeid=39&lang=eng (http://www.jornmark.se/places_intro.aspx?placeid=39&lang=eng)
It makes you wonder who was at the wheel???
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I don't believe Hasselblad will be marketing this towards the average shooter. This camera is most likely geared towards the person wishing to buy into the Hasselblad brand. The entire reason for the purchase is due to the brand. This individual probably isn't very technically proficient in digital capture and just likes to "take pictures".
The other end of the spectrum is the pro shooter on the coasts where perceived image is important. One may call it a novelty item, a boutique purchase..whatever. Hasselblad is trying to capitalize on their brand and diversify.
Pardon for being straight, do they really believe that target group of people are so stupid as to be happy to/after buy a cosmetic of a cheapish Sony for so much money??? Or to put it more precise, do they really dare to insult a target group as to attempt sell them such an ignorant rip off product???
Thereafter, what will be left of the Hasselblad name in reputation?
Hasselblad introduced another item that we seem to be overlooking…the H5D. This body has an improved TrueFocus engine, more robust curtain screen, longer battery life, 24mm lens and an awesome macro converter that I got to play with today.
The H5D follows along incremental product replacement typical of Japanese products (Fuji??), while preceded by exaggerated PR campaign of that it was something bigger. Notably there was nothing revolutionary new and no new digital back from Hassy... which makes one wonder...
Frankly, if we judge MFD market based on Kina 2012, we have seems Hassy taking route of Kodak, Phase One torturing their users with yet another upgrade of Mamiya 645 AF camera and announcing some toy styled lenses, Leica S following along Japanese with an incremental product replacement, while Rolleiflex was the only one offering a low cost upgrade for existing users to their very excellent body and already top notch lenses with professional look (all made in Europe/Germany)... ah, and Schneider announcing very professional looking lenses for high resolution DSLRs, now that should be a danger to MFD industry if someone made a DSLR that felt and acted as medium format camera...
Just my take of it. I shoot Hy6 and 80MP Leaf back + Shen Hao 4x5
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You forgot ALPA. ALPA came with new products and at least, will never loose his honour by doing such tragic things.
If Hasslebad was Japanese, the boss would commit Seppuku.
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I notice that this thread is placed under Luminous Landscape Forum > Equipment & Techniques > Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs – and Large Sensor Photography. It's where discussion of anything Hasselblad would logically go, until now. The once great Hasselblad is now reduced to producing tacky, tarted-up small-sensor Sony bodies, & touting them as Hassy cameras. It's sad.
Is there a forum section Luminous Landscape Forum > tacky, tarted-up small-sensor Sony bodies>, where this thread could be better placed? Maybe Michael could set one up & move this thread there? ;)
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Hasselblad it seems preferred to spend it's money on fancy architecture
for their factory rather than invest the moeny towards the product.
Here is the factory empty after Hasselblad when they had to move to a more conventional where house.
[url]http://www.jornmark.se/places_intro.aspx?placeid=39&lang=eng[/img]
It makes you wonder who was at the wheel???
Nice building. Why/when did they move? Normally with a building this nice/fancy, if there are cost issues, it happens in the building stage. Moving out after its built is rare....
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You forgot ALPA. ALPA came with new products and at least, will never loose his honour by doing such tragic things.
If Hasslebad was Japanese, the boss would commit Seppuku.
Actually I think that if the boss was from Japan he would not be so full of himself and think the name is big enough to
cover up this rubbish.
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If the CEO was Japanese, tradition would be in the first place. Secondly, he would not permit such a situation.
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Great idea. I write from the Monaco Yacht Show. Ever visited it? There is a large well-heeled market for "prestige" products of all kinds, something Leica has addressed more effectively that Hasselblad to date. Medium format digital is a tiny niche market, whereas a luxury product like this will sit well on the seat of a Bugatti or on board a yacht. Just like some of the yachts I have been privileged to visit today.
Just looked at this thread and I'm not seeing disaster. What I see is the same thing as does Quentin: markets for such items exist in far larger numbers than one might believe. Leica is still going strong and seems to have problems making enough stuff, not in selling it.
Reverting to the boating world - the smaller boats are having a hard time getting made, but generally those builders who used to do smaller (if expensive) boats as well as larger have changed emphasis upmarket. Look at Sunseeker or Fairline and Riva - Riva's small boats are very expensive but, considered as luxury items, they still have a market where most others now aim at the over 65ft world.
In short, the rich are still usually rich, and it's the middle, the huge bunch of us that takes the hit. The lower lot never got anything, anyway, so it probably neither knows nor cares what Hassy or Leica might do.
If Hassy can make it work and make money, that's cool; nobody is forced to buy. It might look like a pig, but that's just opinion. What is it about five grand or over that upsets so many people so much that they feel obliged to knock such products?
Rob C
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... markets for such items exist in far larger numbers than one might believe. Leica is still going strong and seems to have problems making enough stuff, not in selling it...
But Rob, Leica is selling itself in a different, luxurious, package. Huge difference. Leica name (and value) recognition among general public is much better than Hasselblad, which is practically unknown outside photographers. Besides, most luxurious versions of Leica that I remember seing are actually rather good looking.
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But Rob, Leica is selling itself in a different, luxurious, package. Huge difference. Leica name (and value) recognition among general public is much better than Hasselblad, which is practically unknown outside photographers. Besides, most luxurious versions of Leica that I remember seing are actually rather good looking.
I'll add to that.
Whoever you are... if you pick up a Leica it feels luxurious. Just pick up a Leica and focus the lens..... then pick up a NEX. The lenses feel like plastic.
Not a jab at Sony... Sony asks a fair price for the nifty little high IQ camera.
Also Leica cameras that are used by professionals are compact so they are often seen around the neck of people with deep pockets and
a passion for photography. Hasselblad H cameras while just a worthy IQ wise are not fun around the neck.
There is also a luxuray difference.... The Leica even not "pimped up" (not the best word, but you get what I mean).
Is already a luxury item. There are waiting lists for lenses pretty much all the time.
Then when Leica does do a special edition it tends to be with very high end designers that already sell very high level luxury items like Ermes.
They are limited editions and like most Leicas are hand made. I the case of the Hermes so it the bag, box and accessories.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAfSfnykXfo&feature=player_embedded (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAfSfnykXfo&feature=player_embedded)
Notice how the video has no hype voice over or glorifying music.
Ermes Bugatti
(http://www.fazterz.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/Bugatti-Veyron-Fbg-par-Hermes-2008_06-588x441.jpg)
Ferrari didn't make a Hasselblad version of the Dino or anything "that way round".
Hasselblad had just become so conceited and full of themselves.
I think Ventizz stepped out of it's comfort zone or typical type of businesses with Hasselblad.
Only consumer product company in the portfolio.
Buisness and industrial clients are one thing.... consumer merchandising ... luxury or not is another thing.
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You beat me to it! I was about to post this:
The latest one I like is the Edition Hermes (http://us.leica-camera.com/photography/special_editions/m9_edition_hermes/) (just check those gentle curvy lines!)
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Hasselblad Lunar
(http://2.static.img-dpreview.com/files/news/8207632916/Lunar4.jpg?v=1587)
VS
M9-P ‘Edition Hermès'
(http://us.leica-camera.com/assets/media/img21899.jpg)
(http://us.leica-camera.com/assets/media/img21908.jpg)
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I saw the "Lunatic" at the Photokina friday and I hate it (like all the Hasselblad reps I spoke to).
But, if it allows Hasselblad to make more money to survive (in the tiny MF market) or to invest in better MF products, should we be so puritan.
It reminds me of the discussion between Porsche 911 fanatics when the Cayenne came to the market. In reality, the Cayenne saved Porsche (more than 50% of cars produced are now Cayennes) and allowed the 911 drivers to still have a car today.
Will this not be the same with Hasselblad in a couple of years?
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No comparison. Not even close.
The Porsche Cayenne was developed for the American market where the SUV format is so popular.
Porsche entered the SUV segment and established itself as the high performance SUV.
It went on to win the Transsyberia rally.
They took it as far a 550 HP 4.8L twin turbo.
They Put a Porsche into an SUV. New product from the ground up.
Hasselblad is so full of itself that it thinks it can (let me correct that.. thought it could) sell a bastardized pimped out camera for 6 times the price because it's reputation is so high and mighty.
While I did use Hasselblads early in my photo career, I always found their holier than thou attitude annoying.
If Hasselblad had not taken the "gouge the photographer for what he used to pay for film" route and developed MF cameras with more functionality.
I think it is safe to say that they revealed their true nature when they dropped film support. IF they really had respect for their early heritage
they would have kept film compatibility on all their cameras. The H4X is evidence that it was not a big deal to do so. They did so to late
and with some "f@#k-you photographers you have to do some upgrade acrobatics if you want one" business model.
I would also say that you can blame the die hard fans too. Instead of giving Hasselblad a hard time forcing them to shape up...
they just kept on praising and admiring.
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.........
But, if it allows Hasselblad to make more money to survive (in the tiny MF market) or to invest in better MF products, should we be so puritan.
.........
It's not about being puritans. It's about having more of an allegiance with photographer... our colleagues... and those wonderful wealthy people that have
helped keep the prices down and the numbers up of the fine tools we use.
Do you really think we should just bow our heads to the "church of Hasselblad" and see them rip people off with their newly acquired bad taste
and marketing BS.
But just look at this from a very simple practical level. Do you really think that a camera store is going to take a client with deep pockets and sell them this deceitful crap.
Can you imagine a person that buys a camera as a status symbol.... he or she then pulls it out a a dinner or something and a gear head will point out that its a $ 1,000 dollar
pimped out Sony. The status symbol will crumble and the client with deep pockets will be complaining with the store or taking his or her business elsewhere.
It simply isn't going to work.
If Hasselblad needed this to survive... well the end is going to come sooner.
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But Rob, Leica is selling itself in a different, luxurious, package. Huge difference. Leica name (and value) recognition among general public is much better than Hasselblad, which is practically unknown outside photographers. Besides, most luxurious versions of Leica that I remember seing are actually rather good looking.
Hi Slobodan
1. I'm not convinced at all that Leica is more well-known amongst the richer folks than is Hasselblad; that seems to me to be an assumption and nothing more. Because people here repeat it as a mantra doesn't necessarily lend it credibility outwith this forum.
2. Of course Leica's 'luxury' branding for consumer goods is more advanced: they have done little else for generations. It's always been a retro company, which was why I never bought a Leica when I was running the business and could easily afford it - I couldn't justify their slr or rangefinder as being superior to the equiment I already owned. In fact, a rangefinder was the last sort of camera suited to my work. Give Hassy the same time pushing smaller, relatively overpriced cameras, and I see no real reason why they should be less successful. To be blunt, I really am beginning to see what some people mean when they write about an anti-Hassy sentiment on this site; if you don't like the product, there's absolutely no compulsion to purchase - leave them in peace. Why muddy their waters and efforts?
I never found Hassy, as a company, to be difficult to work with and the cameras were exactly what I needed.
Rob C
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Do you really think we should just bow our heads to the "church of Hasselblad" and see them rip people off with their newly acquired bad taste
and marketing BS.
If Hasselblad needed this to survive... well the end is going to come sooner.
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Have a look at the price difference of the standard H4D40 with 80mm (18k) and the Ferrari edition (28k). besides the paint and the box, it is the same camera. Check the price of a Leica M9 and the Leica Hermes M9 ! If a number of rich clients are happy to spend this much extra (for the look / status symbol) why not ?
Hasselblad is run since a couple of years by a private equity firm and their aim is to double profit and sell it again in 5 years (to an investor / management / or another PE firm).
As long as they upgrade the MF from time to time and offer us new lenses like the 24mm, I am not going to complain anymore, despite the fact that I hate the Lunatic.
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It reminds me of the discussion between Porsche 911 fanatics when the Cayenne came to the market. In reality, the Cayenne saved Porsche (more than 50% of cars produced are now Cayennes) and allowed the 911 drivers to still have a car today.
That's not true. Porsche was making a healthy profit pre-Cayenne. What they chose to do was to grow and diversify. That's not the same thing.
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Like a few others I am surprised and amused at the amount of scorn being heaped on Hasselblad here and elsewhere. The demise of MF digital is regularly forecast here, if that's true Hasselblad would be stupid not to enter other market segments and they do have brand capital to exploit.
The Lunar may be unattractive to many, expensive and based on a Sony "enthusiast" camera but Leica seem to do nicely tweaking and rebadging Panasonic compact cameras.
Perhaps those who feel the brand heritage is being betrayed will be critical of whatever Hasselblad does to diversify, as I sense some brand snobbery around the "serious photographer" and "professional" attributes which isn't so different from the desire for prestige that drives the "aspirational" and "luxury brand" purchases which are mocked here.
By the way, can someone explain why the Fuji designed and built Xpan is generally venerated whereas the Hasselblad/Fuji H-Series gets the called by the slightly dismissive "Fujiblad" name?
And am I missing something or was a significant part of the Hasselblad "brand heritage" that people feel so strongly about based on lenses developed and manufactured by Carl Zeiss?
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Leica name (and value) recognition among general public is much better than Hasselblad, which is practically unknown outside photographers.
Not quite sure about that either - I still remember the ads in NGM "XXX used an Hasselblad to shoot YYY", and think too the brand got a huge publicity from its use by the NASA.
That said, I am definitely not the marketing target of this contraption, so who cares! ;D
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... Leica seem to do nicely tweaking and rebadging Panasonic compact cameras...
At least Leica is supplying lenses in that partnership. What is Hasselblad supplying, other than name? Also, the premium Leica charges is orders of magnitude different from the Hasselblad's one. It is a matter of taste, of course, but I find Leica versions of Panasonic simply more elegant (and, for me, worth the premium).
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Not quite sure about that either..
The problem with using two (or more) arguments simultaneously is that opponents usually pounce on the weaker one. The context I used the brand recognition argument went as this: it was initially argued that Hasselbad is doing the same thing as Leica, i.e., selling a luxurious version to the rich. My main argument, however, was that Leica, in contrast to Hasselbad, is selling itself, an already high-end, high-quality, luxurious product.
Speaking of brand recognition among the target market, i think that a fair gauge is the use among celebrities. As an anecdotal evidence, I can come up with a couple off the top of my head: Brad Pitt, Lou Reed... A quick googling unearthed the following list:
"... Other Leica users of fame is Bryan Adams, Seal, Annie Leibovitz [sic], Lenny Kravitz, Eric Clapton, Miles Davis, Ann Curry, Chow Yun Fat, Katie Hoff, Scarlett Johansson, Brendan Fraser, Jeff Bridges, Brad Pitt, Brigitte Bardot, Charles Bronson, Andy Lau, Woody Allen, Jamie Cullum, Paris Hilton, Kanye West, Yul Brynner, Wim Wenders, Bruce Springsteen, Posh Spice ... the list goes on..." as a part of an article on the Leica history here (http://www.overgaard.dk/leica_history.html), with many more examples.
How many do you know that use a Hasselbad?
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The problem with using two (or more) arguments simultaneously is that opponents usually pounce on the weaker one. The context I used the brand recognition argument went as this: it was initially argued that Hasselbad is doing the same thing as Leica, i.e., selling a luxurious version to the rich. My main argument, however, was that Leica, in contrast to Hasselbad, is selling itself, an already high-end, high-quality, luxurious product.
Speaking of brand recognition among the target market, i think that a fair gauge is the use among celebrities. As an anecdotal evidence, I can come up with a couple off the top of my head: Brad Pitt, Lou Reed... A quick googling unearthed the following list:
"... Other Leica users of fame is Bryan Adams, Seal, Annie Leibovitz [sic], Lenny Kravitz, Eric Clapton, Miles Davis, Ann Curry, Chow Yun Fat, Katie Hoff, Scarlett Johansson, Brendan Fraser, Jeff Bridges, Brad Pitt, Brigitte Bardot, Charles Bronson, Andy Lau, Woody Allen, Jamie Cullum, Paris Hilton, Kanye West, Yul Brynner, Wim Wenders, Bruce Springsteen, Posh Spice ... the list goes on..." as a part of an article on the Leica history here (http://www.overgaard.dk/leica_history.html), with many more examples.
How many do you know that use a Hasselbad?
I can confirm this. I do mainly celebrity portrait/fashion photography. From a-list actors, bands, comedians, atheletes, billionaires and politicians.
Many have Leicas.
Above all the Leicas are small and clean designs. The are easy to carry and their design is clean and neutral looking good on everything.
The Hasselblad designs are way to pimped out, make the cameras heavier. It's just so stupid... the whole thing.
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I can confirm this. I do mainly celebrity portrait/fashion photography. From a-list actors, bands, comedians, atheletes, billionaires and politicians.
many have Leicas.
Above all the Leicas are small and clean designs. The are easy to carry and their design is clean and neutral looking good on everything.
The Hasselblad designs are way to pimped out, make the cameras heavier. It's just so stupid... the whole thing.
I have a few contacts in that eco-system and I can add that very few of those Leica owners have actually have paid for their kits :-). And you nailed it about the H design: we have the 1930's Sicilian mafioso version, the 1990s bad boy rapper, the 2000s Russian billionaire and the Kill Bill special whereas Leica is more Benjamin de Rothschild.
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That's not true. Porsche was making a healthy profit pre-Cayenne. What they chose to do was to grow and diversify. That's not the same thing.
Porsche said it still hoped to be in the black in 1994/5 after extensive cost-cutting. According to Wendelin Wiedeking, chief executive, it will not be until 1996/7 when acceptable profits will be made again. By then it should have launched its low-priced, two- seater Boxster sports car. Porsche has cut its production workforce by 40 per cent to counter the problem of uncompetitiveness in its US export market. At its peak in 1986, Porsche sold almost 50,000 cars, half of them in the US. It expects sales of more than 16,000 in the current year.
Porsche was not always that healthy. Profits only increased by launching the Boxster in 1996 and the Cayenne in 2002. Without this diversification, Porsche would still be struggling.
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Porsche said it still hoped to be in the black in 1994/5 after extensive cost-cutting. According to Wendelin Wiedeking, chief executive, it will not be until 1996/7 when acceptable profits will be made again. By then it should have launched its low-priced, two- seater Boxster sports car. Porsche has cut its production workforce by 40 per cent to counter the problem of uncompetitiveness in its US export market. At its peak in 1986, Porsche sold almost 50,000 cars, half of them in the US. It expects sales of more than 16,000 in the current year.
Porsche was not always that healthy. Profits only increased by launching the Boxster in 1996 and the Cayenne in 2002. Without this diversification, Porsche would still be struggling.
It adjusted to changing tastes in the US market with stronger growth in the SUV market.
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This popped up in my news box.....
Rather funny....
HASSELBLAD SPILLS SECRETS BEHIND LEAK-FREE LUNAR LAUNCH
By Chris Cheesman Monday, 24 September 2012
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Last week Swedish camera maker Hasselblad caught most of the photographic industry off-guard when it unveiled a plan to launch its Lunar compact system camera.
Unlike many camera launches of recent years, the firm was able to keep the launch leak-free.
Hasselblad's business development manager Luca Alessandrini has revealed how the Lunar – which is being developed in partnership with Sony – was kept firmly under wraps.
In an interview with Amateur Photographer at last week's photokina in Germany, Alessandrini explained that the firm was able to keep the news secret thanks to a small team and the covert operations surrounding the project.
Hasselblad's new Italian design unit was put into near-lockdown and it seems all communications regarding Lunar were on a strictly need-to-know basis.
‘There was nothing on the [door] bell,' said Alessandrini.
‘All the windows were covered. It looked like a warehouse.
'We didn't give out anything, we didn't print out anything at our office and we used the codename "Pink".'
Alessandrini said printing of all literature shown at photokina was carried out in-house, with nothing leaving the office.
‘We were transporting things [in and out], not in Hasselblad boxes but in [plain] cardboard ones.
‘We couldn't send any pictures or mention the project in emails.
‘No mobile phones were allowed during meetings... We signed NDAs [Non Disclosure Agreements] everywhere.'
Alessandrini said nothing leaked out, despite four teams being involved in the project worldwide – in Denmark, Sweden, Italy and Japan.
Bragging about how they kept this project secret........
Let's see... developing a new REAL new camera requires all sorts of staff and suppliers...
Pimping up a camera with a skin.... totally different story.
And Hasselblad now has an Italian Design Unit..... ::)
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" 'We didn't give out anything, we didn't print out anything at our office and we used the codename "Pink".'"
and pink it was ( a mission impossible)
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THE ALARMISTS ARE COMING!
THE ALARMISTS ARE COMING!
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Hasselblad's business development manager Luca Alessandrini has revealed how the Lunar – which is being developed in partnership with Sony – was kept firmly under wraps.
Ah, that's where they went wrong: they eventually took the wraps off and showed it to the world. It was all going swimmingly prior to that.
Ray
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A leak might just have saved Hasselblad from themselves. Now that they announced, they're much less likely to listen to people's reactions to it. Of course they could still come out with a statement that this was just a big joke, and announce a real camera...
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A leak might just have saved Hasselblad from themselves. Now that they announced, they're much less likely to listen to people's reactions to it. Of course they could still come out with a statement that this was just a big joke, and announce a real camera...
+1000
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A leak might just have saved Hasselblad from themselves. Now that they announced, they're much less likely to listen to people's reactions to it. Of course they could still come out with a statement that this was just a big joke, and announce a real camera...
That was exactly what I thought when I read that article.
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I can't for the world of me understand why they opened an Italian design studio. Hasselblad became iconic thanks to the no nonsense "form follows function" design of the V-series, why would they go the complete opposite direction when trying to regain their previous enthusiast user base as they put it? This whole affair just reeks of a company that's lost touch, and it's a textbook example of what happens when you replace passionate innovators with bean counters if you ask me.
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I can't for the world of me understand why they opened an Italian design studio. Hasselblad became iconic thanks to the no nonsense "form follows function" design of the V-series, why would they go the complete opposite direction when trying to regain their previous enthusiast user base as they put it? This whole affair just reeks of a company that's lost touch, and it's a textbook example of what happens when you replace passionate innovators with bean counters if you ask me.
It's also bizar how they managed to put together such a bad design team. Italy is famous for it's industrial design.
Giorgetto Giugiaro for example designed the Canon 1Ds body shape.
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It's also bizar how they managed to put together such a bad design team. Italy is famous for it's industrial design.
Giorgetto Giugiaro for example designed the Canon 1Ds body shape.
Of course, I'm not saying Italy is not famous for design, I think everyone knows that, but so is Scandinavia. I'm actually half Swedish half Italian myself, and I studied design in Italy, so I'm intimately familiar with both design cultures. Considering Hasselblad's legacy and the many fine industrial designers in Sweden it just seems weird to open a design center in Italy, that's all. Maybe they thought "Designed in Italy" would appeal to the demographic they are targeting with the Lunar ::)
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Giorgetto Giugiaro for example designed the Canon 1Ds body shape.
And such rugged, perfectly functional, totally modular beauties as the Nikon F4 - my favourite SLR design.
Ray
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Yes, it is a blantant rip-off of an existing design, namely, this one:
(http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1033/1033363934_dc44fb5b8f.jpg)
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Chairman and CEO Dr Larry Hansen. I'll refrain from commenting on this one ;D
(https://default.secure.media.ipcdigital.co.uk/11134|000002255|ca82_blad.web.best.jpg)
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Basically just cause its Italian design does not mean its the good Italian designers, looks to me like its the left overs from the fashion, woodworking and metal work club.
When you see it in the flesh nothing meshes. It's like someone scoured the garage and made a tree house and a camera from bits lying around.
I am sure there was a time line and a budget for release. Forget the price this thing I'd an embarrassment, sadly we were al waiting for innovation the digital XPAN ( rebadged Fuji) see its in their DNA. However we got another pointless compact which the iPhone 5 competes with with a bit of effort.
They will sell a few for sure. But probably to cayenne owners and collectors. Good luck Hassleblad I hope u make enough cash to launch a real hasselblad soon with a little innovation not woodwork.
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Chairman and CEO Dr Larry Hansen. I'll refrain from commenting on this one ;D
(https://default.secure.media.ipcdigital.co.uk/11134|000002255|ca82_blad.web.best.jpg)
OMG ...
:o :( >:(
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... Good luck Hassleblad I hope u make enough cash to launch a real hasselblad soon with a little innovation not woodwork.
You expect that from a guy with sausage fingers and golden bracelet*, who doesn't even know how to hold a camera!? ;)
*btw, that surely explains the lunacy design
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You expect that from a guy with sausage fingers and golden bracelet*, who doesn't even know how to hold a camera!? ;)
*btw, that surely explains the lunacy design
Making very public negative comments about a strangers physical appearance is such a great way to make yourself more attractive!
Perhaps we should all follow your example.
Who knows, maybe the subject of your ridicule will read your comments (or his wife or children) and you'll look extra extra smart and chic!
As to the candid snapshot at a public unveiling of a new product... Perhaps it was a momentary gesture to show off the wood grip. Maybe a fraction of a second later he slid his hand up to grip the camera in a normal fashion. Or maybe his fingers are too large or he's clueless about how to hold it.
I don't know. But you obviously have insight and sensitivity that I lack.
Nice tag line you have by the way. "When everybody thinks the same... nobody thinks".
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Well, TechTalk, at least I post under my full name, thus opening myself to whatever backlash my comments might inspire.
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Well, TechTalk, at least I post under my full name, thus opening myself to whatever backlash my comments might inspire.
I admire your courage. You're a better man than I.
I'm afraid some total stranger that knows nothing about me might mock my physical appearance or the way I dress or god knows what else in some vicious manner.
My hat is off to you, Please don't make fun of my hat... my wife gave it to me as an anniversary present and I wear it because I love her... along with that awful gold bracelet she gave me.