Luminous Landscape Forum

Equipment & Techniques => Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs – and Large Sensor Photography => Topic started by: PdF on September 14, 2012, 05:54:38 am

Title: New products from Sinar
Post by: PdF on September 14, 2012, 05:54:38 am
Sinar announces some new products for Photokina. Particularly interesting: Capture Flow, a new processing software. http://www.sinar.ch/en/category/products/capture-flow/ (http://www.sinar.ch/en/category/products/capture-flow/)

Sinar IanTec http://www.sinar.ch/en/category/products/cameras/lantec-en/ (http://www.sinar.ch/en/category/products/cameras/lantec-en/)is a new mobile camera system. And also a new Sinaron Digital HR SW 5,6/90mm.

PdF

Title: Re: New products from Sinar
Post by: Anders_HK on September 14, 2012, 12:45:57 pm
LanTec; Compared to others, funky handles, no tilt.

What would have set it apart would have been +/-25mm shift for max pano with 645 sensors, lesser weight, nice wooden handles bolted direct to body, and optional tilt.

Just my 2c take  ;)
Title: Re: New products from Sinar
Post by: FredBGG on September 14, 2012, 02:31:47 pm
Finally someone came trough on this one....

Quote

3 Focus Points
For quality focus set-up, three active focus points are possible, a single focus point, or in combination displaying three live focus areas.


I made this request to the other MF vendors as well as on public forums. Looks like Sinar came through.

Finally a step in the right direction for supporting tilt shift focusing.
Title: Re: New products from Sinar
Post by: gfsymon on September 14, 2012, 02:37:07 pm
Finally someone came trough on this one....

I made this request to the other MF vendors as well as on public forums. Looks like Sinar came through.

Finally a step in the right direction for supporting tilt shift focusing.

I've been enjoying 3 focus points on MFDB since 1999.

Title: Re: New products from Sinar
Post by: henrikfoto on September 14, 2012, 03:50:14 pm
Any information on when this software will be ready to download?

Henrik
Title: Re: New products from Sinar
Post by: bdp on September 15, 2012, 05:48:16 am
CaptureFlow looks suspiciously like eXposure to me, after looking at that screenshot. Hopefully it has been improved with some new tools and features. Presumably Sinar owns it now. I think Jenoptik owned the rights to eXposure which may have been the reason development of that software stopped.

Ben
Title: Re: New products from Sinar
Post by: FredBGG on September 15, 2012, 11:35:16 am
I've been enjoying 3 focus points on MFDB since 1999.


I don't think you understand the functionality of the new Sinar software.

This is not about three focus points in the viewfinder.

This is three focus points in live view that can be positioned freely in order to achieve fine focus
when using tilt shift with a tethered camera.



I suggested this many times. I have also discussed doing this with the D800 with Nikon both in camera and with software.

In studio with a Nikon I use a large HDMI monitor and live view to shoot shallow depth of field with tilt shift.
it's disgustingly luxurious to do this compared to how I do it with my 8x10 film cameras.

I just bought a Canon 85mm 1.2 that was broken for pennies and tore it apart and built it into the front end of a Fuji gx680 that I will be using on my d800
so I can tilt shift. For focus control really, no perspective control due to the limits of the image circle.

(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8041/7988741559_de38d5d41f_c.jpg)
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8310/7988739731_0183a91afd_c.jpg)
Early "design stages" ;)

What is cool is that the front end of the Fuji gx680 is really easy to remove.

Just these two screws here.

(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8317/7988741913_40c2530332_c.jpg)

The base to mount the Nikon is easy too. you just need one of these and a block of billet aluminum.

(http://www.collectiblecameras.com/images/P/mamiya_PAe.jpg)

Then you need to modify one of these wide angle bellows by Fuji for the Fuji gx680.

(http://www.capturetek.com/media/jpg/h9935-00-web.jpg)
Title: Re: New products from Sinar
Post by: yaya on September 15, 2012, 12:34:28 pm
I don't think you understand the functionality of the new Sinar software.

This is not about three focus points in the viewfinder.

This is three focus points in live view that can be positioned freely in order to achieve fine focus
when using tilt shift with a tethered camera.

gfsymon, like he says, has been using multiple LV windows with a tethered view camera since 1999 and IMO he knows movements (front and rear) more than most folks here
Title: Re: New products from Sinar
Post by: FredBGG on September 15, 2012, 02:44:30 pm
interesting ... with what software and back?
Title: Re: New products from Sinar
Post by: EricWHiss on September 15, 2012, 03:04:31 pm
interesting ... with what software and back?

Probably something Leaf since Yair knows him.... 

Fred, can you show us your completed T/S rig for your nikon with the HDMI viewer?  Looks interesting.
Title: Re: New products from Sinar
Post by: bdp on September 15, 2012, 05:07:07 pm
interesting ... with what software and back?

Jenoptik's Eyelike Capture Pro had it since the early 2000's and Sinar eXposure software has it too. You can only have one of the 3 points active at any one time if I remember correctly, but an assistant can quickly switch between them after they are positioned in the frame.

Ben
Title: Re: New products from Sinar
Post by: FredBGG on September 15, 2012, 05:15:18 pm
Probably something Leaf since Yair knows him....  

Fred, can you show us your completed T/S rig for your nikon with the HDMI viewer?  Looks interesting.

My completed one was snitched.... I'll have another together soon.
Title: Re: New products from Sinar
Post by: gfsymon on September 16, 2012, 08:08:43 am
gfsymon, like he says, has been using multiple LV windows with a tethered view camera since 1999 and IMO he knows movements (front and rear) more than most folks here

Hey Yair!

It's true that almost every shot I've ever made has been with a view camera.  :)

The 3 points (or 2 if you prefer) in Live view are active but only one of their readings can be viewed at any one time in the 100% closeup window. However, you can place them as you wish and click between them freely.

This whilst useful is not what is really needed.  The real time saver would be to have the sharpness/focus confirmation software take all 3 points into account instead of just one, so that you simply place your 3 points, then focus and tilt/swing until you get the highest reading, which would mean you've hit the optimum use of Scheimpflug for your chosen plane of focus.  If you then move 1 of the points and re-adjust the tilt/swing/focus until you get the highest reading then that would be your new plane.  The ideal would be to have 4 sharpness/focus readouts.  Each of the 3 points plus a combined average.
Title: Re: New products from Sinar
Post by: Jeff Weir on September 18, 2012, 07:13:42 pm
Has Sinar announced when Captureflow will be available and which backs will be supported?
Title: Re: New products from Sinar
Post by: PdF on September 23, 2012, 03:56:32 pm
Sinar don't know when the new CaptureFlow program will be ready. I've seen it in Cologne. It is not yet fully operational. The 3-point focus, for example, is not ready. This program will not work with antiques Sinar m, Sinarcam 2, and Hy6. Sinar is turning a new page: old systems will not be supported by the new company. There are no more single-shot backs availables. Only connected (and multishoot) 75H, 86H and eXact are presented. The digital lenses mounted on 4/5 DB disappeared from the catalog, and it seems that Sinarcams will no longer be repaired !!!

PdF

Title: Re: New products from Sinar
Post by: henrikfoto on September 23, 2012, 04:13:47 pm
Sinar don't know when the new CaptureFlow program will be ready. I've seen it in Cologne. It is not yet fully operational. The 3-point focus, for example, is not ready. This program will not work with antiques Sinar m, Sinarcam 2, and Hy6. Sinar is turning a new page: old systems will not be supported by the new company. There are no more single-shot backs availables. Only connected (and multishoot) 75H, 86H and eXact are presented. The digital lenses mounted on 4/5 DB disappeared from the catalog, and it seems that Sinarcams will no longer be repaired !!!

PdF


That is really bad news! I really thought Sinar was getting back on track. I was starting to get some trust back for investig into more Sinar equipment. BUT now they show all of us that Sinar will continue being the worst possible investment. No other brand looses the value as fast as the Sinar. Now this clearly will continue. Look up!!!

Such a shame whan they have very nice products...

Henrik
Title: Re: New products from Sinar
Post by: edwinb on September 24, 2012, 05:54:07 pm
Sinar supports its products years longer than many others - as UK distributors for Sinar we have been well supported by their efforts to repair 20+ year old products on many occasions far exceeding the declared obligations.
It is a fact that electronic components manufacturing cycles are getting shorter and as spare components become unavailable the products cannot be maintained - which is why they have an ongoing upgrade program (http://www.sinar.ch/en/category/products/scp-warranty/scp/) which I though was just as smart and innovative as is the eXact (http://www.image2output.com/image2outputcom/photographic/sinar-digital-camera-back/the-new-sinar-exact-digital-back-p-6063.html) with its single shot, variable size with and without multi-shot, giving the widest range of options on file size and quality capture ever known and yes they are still by far the best by spectral measurement in colour reproduction in the market.
The eShutter system is the replacement for db lens and sinarcam2 equipments - available as conversions and upgrades the same as the p/p2 systems can be upgraded to p3 or used with Canon / Nikons using the P-SLR adaptor.
The new mac/pc software will extend the capability of the current products beyond the capabilities of the old products (and unlike some other manufacturers) still continues to supply free software and software upgrades for many years after a product has been purchased.
I will be happy to assist with any repairs you may need (including Sinarcams and db lens :) )
regards
Edwin
Title: Re: New products from Sinar
Post by: henrikfoto on September 24, 2012, 06:34:36 pm
From most brands used equipment can be sold fast and easy for a decent price.
For Sinar equipment you will normally loose most of the value in just a few months.
Ask anyone who have tried to sell a used Sinar M, CAB, CMV og DB lenses or a Sinar ArTec.
Or maybe the Sinarbacks with the fantastic fiberoptic cables. Couldn't be updated, used or
coudn't be sold.. Nice move!

The Sinar M with some fantastic Zeiss AF lenses lost 90% of it's value in a few days when
Sinar stopped the production. And as usual with Sinar, all components are useless outside the system..

And why should it be so hard to include The M, Hy6 and Sinarcam in the new software? It's just one answer:
You should buy more equipment >:( and loose some more money..

Good luck, Sinar!
I was excited they had new owners, but it seems to continue with more of the same old..



Title: Captureflow
Post by: lowep on October 02, 2012, 09:37:30 am
Sinar’s website points out that CaptureFlow won a Photokina Star but it is not listed among the software available for download?
Title: Re: New products from Sinar
Post by: edwinb on October 02, 2012, 01:25:36 pm
Its being tested by distributors before full release this ensures we can answer the support questions also :)
Edwin
Title: Re: New products from Sinar
Post by: lowep on October 02, 2012, 02:00:05 pm
thanks for update
Title: Re: New products from Sinar
Post by: PdF on October 02, 2012, 02:13:33 pm
<<Sinar’s website points out that CaptureFlow won a Photokina Star but it is not listed among the software available for download?>>

This is all the more surprising that this program was not yet fully operational. The 3-point focusing, for example, did not work ...

PdF
Title: Re: New products from Sinar
Post by: henrikfoto on October 02, 2012, 02:32:50 pm
Do they still don't want to make this software work with 54H?

Henrik
Title: Re: New products from Sinar
Post by: edwinb on October 02, 2012, 02:48:11 pm
The initial release is only supporting the eXact, 86H and 75H (ie current camerabacks in production) as a complete rewrite from version 6 maybe it makes good sense to reward new and upgrade clients with the added benefits?
It doesn't say what future releases may support.
The existing v6 software is still offered free with its considerable number of upgrades- some camera backs have had 3 generations or more softwares and there must come a time when it can't be carried forward.

Edwin
Title: Re: New products from Sinar
Post by: lowep on October 02, 2012, 03:20:28 pm
"Full backward system compatibility – almost all lenses of the Leica M range built since 1954 can still be used on the latest M camera models – is an important factor in the enduring value of the M series."

extract from this (http://www.dpreview.com/news/2012/09/17/Leica-M-E-18MP-stripped-down-full-frame-rangefinder/print) Leica press release

Good to see Captureshop 6.1 continues to be available for free download providing enduring support for legacy products that is not always as good as the above. If it were the value of Contax gear would be a lot higher than it is today.

Even if comparing backward compatibility of cameras & software is like comparing pineapples and ping pong balls
Title: Re: New products from Sinar
Post by: edwinb on October 02, 2012, 03:40:31 pm
... and also you can still convert sinar lens (et al) to eshutters and they would operate fine but I suspect the quality of the lens has changed considerably and the older glass would not cope with the latest resolution of the camera backs. Is this also the reality for the Leica?
Edwin
Title: Re: New products from Sinar
Post by: henrikfoto on October 02, 2012, 05:13:43 pm
... and also you can still convert sinar lens (et al) to eshutters and they would operate fine but I suspect the quality of the lens has changed considerably and the older glass would not cope with the latest resolution of the camera backs. Is this also the reality for the Leica?
Edwin

The lenses are the same as most of the lenses mounted in the CAB and CMV. I got a price from Sinar to put these lenses in the new eshutters. They wanted 1.800$ for each conversion. Nice joke????
And the shutters are doing just the same job.

In comparrison the new Rollei Hy6 cameraupdate is just 400$. This updates I would say are more important than the small updates Phase one are offering on the DF+ which costs thousands of $, and lower the used price of peoples DF-cameras.

I hope and think a lot of people will make the move to Hy6 2 now. It's the best camera on the mf-market, and for sure the best investment in terms of used-prices. I am selling all my Phase gear. I bought into the system because I was told a much better camera was on the way. Now I am tired of waiting while being fed with
microscopic upgrades to a terrible camera.

Henrik
Title: Re: New products from Sinar
Post by: ynp on October 06, 2012, 09:35:40 am
It is a shame that we cannot use those wonderful  Zeiss AF  lenses on a Leica -S or any other modern  camera with an adapter.

Yevgeny
Title: Re: New products from Sinar
Post by: henrikfoto on October 06, 2012, 04:13:57 pm
It is a shame that we cannot use those wonderful  Zeiss AF  lenses on a Leica -S or any other modern  camera with an adapter.

Yevgeny

I totally agree!!
Some of the best lenses ever made, and useless without the M..

Henrik
Title: Re: New products from Sinar
Post by: lowep on October 08, 2012, 10:37:17 am
Some of the best lenses ever made, and useless without the M..

why not ask this (http://72.32.6.157/~rbensonarch/blog/?page_id=247) guy
Title: Re: New products from Sinar
Post by: ynp on October 09, 2012, 08:07:37 am
I am not so sure that it is easy to modify the Sinar-M lenses with its internal  by wire focusing.

I have all the AF  lenses and the 28mm module and thought about converting them. Leica was able to manufacture the Hasselblad-H adapter and it is said that the auto-focus works. I doubt that there are more than 900  AF lenses altogether and nobody wants to invest in a solution.
Title: Re: New products from Sinar
Post by: ynp on October 09, 2012, 08:23:17 am
I am ready to pay $5,000.00 for an Adapter to use the M lenses... ;) ;D
Title: Re: New products from Sinar
Post by: henrikfoto on October 09, 2012, 08:30:37 am
I am ready to pay $5,000.00 for an Adapter to use the M lenses... ;) ;D



Another 5.000 from me!!!
Title: Re: New products from Sinar
Post by: henrikfoto on October 09, 2012, 08:40:57 am
The new software will be ready for download Friday :) :) :)
Title: Re: New products from Sinar
Post by: henrikfoto on October 09, 2012, 09:38:41 am
I just got bad news. Sinar have desided to keep all users of backsolder than 75 and 86 out from the new
software. What a terribly bad desition!! Why not let the users of these older backs pay for the new software and keep them as happy costumers??

Greed!  >:(
Title: Re: New products from Sinar
Post by: Kumar on October 10, 2012, 04:37:53 am
Yesterday, I asked Sinar about using CaptureFlow with the Sinarback 54H. I have just now received a response saying:

a. CaptureFlow currently supports the eXact, eVolution 75H/86H and the eMotion series.
b. It was not possible to support all Sinarbacks at one time.
c. It may be possible to support the 43H and 54H in a future version.
d. Sinar is currently discussing the situation internally.

In my mail, I pointed out that a large number of Sinarback 54H users are museums, cultural institutions and documentation organizations that may not be in a position to upgrade to newer backs in the current economic situation. They would certainly hate to be left out of potential improvements, particularly the color management features.

If any members know photographers using older Sinar backs in museums or other organizations, perhaps they could ask them to write to Sinar, expressing their unhappiness. Maybe Sinar will listen, and implement support faster.

Kumar
Title: Re: New products from Sinar
Post by: henrikfoto on October 10, 2012, 09:10:53 am
I hope they will listen. The mail my dealer got from them was not that promissing.
They told the older backs than 75H would not be supported.

"Unfortunately SB 54H will not be supported with CaptureFlow SW. Sorry not be able to give you a positive answer but on the other hand it could be a great opportunity to realize trade-in's with eVolution back."

Or in other words: We want to force  you all to upgrade...

Title: Re: New products from Sinar
Post by: PdF on October 10, 2012, 10:00:43 am
<<c. It may be possible to support the 43H and 54H in a future version.>>

With Sinarcam 2 ?

PdF
Title: Re: New products from Sinar
Post by: Kumar on October 10, 2012, 11:04:11 am
Sorry, I didn't ask about the SinarCam 2.

Kumar
Title: Re: New products from Sinar
Post by: henrikfoto on October 10, 2012, 12:17:37 pm
As far as have heard Sinarcam 2 is also not supported  :(

Henrik

Title: Re: New products from Sinar
Post by: gfsymon on October 10, 2012, 12:20:03 pm

Or in other words: We want to force  you all to upgrade...



Not sure how much 'force' they are using.  These are pretty impressive upgrade pricings, which are in this month's newsletter.




(http://www.grantsymon.com/Grabs/SinarPromos.png)




Title: Re: New products from Sinar
Post by: henrikfoto on October 10, 2012, 12:42:02 pm

Not sure how much 'force' they are using.  These are pretty impressive upgrade pricings, which are in this month's newsletter.




(http://www.grantsymon.com/Grabs/SinarPromos.png)


If is was an upgrade I would be happy. I have used the 75 and the 86, but I think the 54H is still the best back they have ever made. I have great hope for the Xact, but I would never trade my 54H before I test the new one.
With this deal that is not possible. You have to make the deal before the end of november and hope for the best when the back arrives later.

So this "upgrade" deals is not that great.

Why not let people pay to access the new software if they have an older back?

Henrik




Title: Re: New products from Sinar
Post by: museumbrich4d on October 17, 2012, 10:25:48 am
Sinar CaptureFlow Beta 0.9.14 was posted this morning to:
http://www.sinar.ch/en/category/downloads/software-en/

Compatible with Mac OS X Mountain Lion (10.8) For Sinarbacks eSprit 65, eVolution 75H, 86H and eXact
Title: Re: New products from Sinar
Post by: druryphoto on October 18, 2012, 12:35:31 am
just had a quick play with this... it seems very similar to Exposure. Even a quick shading and processing of an image seems to be the same.

Does anyone know if processing has been improved or of any other improvements over Exposure.

thanks
Title: Re: New products from Sinar
Post by: henrikfoto on October 18, 2012, 02:15:31 am
Did you try to use the new function with more focus-points in live view at the same time?
Title: Re: New products from Sinar
Post by: druryphoto on October 18, 2012, 05:16:39 am
No didn't have time to do that but will give it a go soon.... not something I use a lot though.
Title: Re: New products from Sinar
Post by: lowep on October 19, 2012, 02:58:52 pm
Q: Is it possible to open, process & export a legacy dng file with this version of Captureflow?

A: No.
Title: Re: New products from Sinar
Post by: MHFA on October 23, 2012, 09:38:55 am
A dng File from my Emotion 75LV can be processed, and even slighly better than with Exposure. I only don`t know how to export as dng after shading.
Anyone knows??

Michael
Title: Re: New products from Sinar
Post by: MHFA on October 23, 2012, 09:44:44 am
Only Drag and Drop, not by the Export Menu...
Thank you SINAR, a gratis new software for my "old" back...

Michael
Title: Re: New products from Sinar
Post by: lowep on October 28, 2012, 09:54:27 am
A dng File from my Emotion 75LV can be processed, and even slighly better than with Exposure.

Very good news!

Q: Is it possible to open, process & export a legacy dng file with this version of Captureflow?

A: No.

I downloaded Sinar CaptureFlow Beta 0.9.14 and tried to do same with a .dng file from my eMotion 75 (model before 75LV). But I could not get this software to open a .dng file downloaded from the eMotion 75 using Sinar Captureshop 6.1.1. Given Michael's experience I hope that the problem is me not the software. That would be good news! So will try again.

Don't know if there is any significant difference in how the eMotion 75LV & my older eMotion 75 record and/or output images.