Luminous Landscape Forum
Raw & Post Processing, Printing => Adobe Lightroom Q&A => Topic started by: John Caldwell on September 11, 2012, 06:43:24 am
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My wife and I are still using the mouse or trackpad for all our LR and PS work. We'd like to try something along the lines of an Intuos 4, principally for brush work. Reviews are a little mixed regarding tablet usefulness in LR; much less so for PS. Several have offered that using the tablet to call up programmed LR shortcuts isn't reliable. We use Mac OS.
Does anyone care to share recent experience, meaning LR4, CS5 or 6, and OS 10.7 or 10.8?
Many thanks,
John Caldwell
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I'm using a large Intuos 3 with Mac OSX 10.7.4 and LR4.1. Using the tablet does help with fine control when using brushes and gradients. I do find myself switching back and forth with the mouse when adjusting sliders in the Develop module, as I don't like the feel of trying to use the pen to make small slider adjustments.
Using a tablet with Photoshop is a huge advantage. With Lightroom it's nice, but for me it doesn't make as big a difference. Note that, in either case, knowing all the keyboard commands will greatly improve your efficiency - place the keyboard above the tablet, and use your left hand to change tools, brush sizes, hardness, etc., while your right hand uses the pen and tablet. (Or vice versa for left-hand-dominant persons.)
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I toyed with the idea of using a tablet for my, mainly, LR work but decided against it having searched many forums. In the end I settled with a Logitech Performance MX mouse. It allows you to set up two separate cursor speeds which gives you good control over tricky areas.
Malcolm
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Thanks to both of you. Is it the case that no aspect of the tablet interface can be programmed to call up LR shortcuts or presets?
John Caldwell
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Hello John
I cannot imagine not using my Wacom tablet for Lightroom. Sometimes I am using it for 8 hours or more and the idea of using a mouse for that time does not appeal. For instance I am typing this with four fingers and I have the Wacom pen in my right hand at the same time. Besides the pen tool/stylus, the express keys on the Intuos 4 are really good. They can be programmed for many of the shortcuts used often, and of course they can be different things for LR and Photoshop too. For instance with LR I have the top four keys set up as Crop (r), Pick (p), Unpick (u), and Next (Right arrow).
These are the keystrokes I make most often initially. I have the A5 size pad with the keyboard above. I am on Mac OS.
Jim
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Interesting, Jim; thank you. Do you own the Intuos 4 medium or large size, please?
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The active area is 9x6 inches - so probably the medium. Anything bigger would not be so practical I think with the keyboard etc.
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I use a large Wacom Intuos daily with LR4 and CS6 and wouldnt be without them.
In terms of set-up it takes a bit of space, but I like the real estate the Large pad offers. YMMV.
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I'd say a yes, but only just, for using one with Lightroom - and only really with the brush tool. With Photoshop, more uses can be found. But don't feel you simply must have one.
The programmable buttons are OK, but no big deal.
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No, no, no - you just HAVE to have one! My mouse is in a cupboard somewhere - really.
I will warn you though that learning to use it is like trying to draw holding a pencil with your toes - but hang in there because it does quickly get easier.
Jim
(Note - I have not tried drawing with my toes, but I imagine it would be quite a challenge at first).
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I was fine without one for the first 4 years of using Lightroom. It's only of any real use for the adjustment brush.
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Mine is about 12 inches wide in the active area, so I think it's a large. (The label has completely rubbed off the back.)
I turned off all the active buttons and sliders on the tablet, and the button on the pen. Hate them -- I was always accidentally touching one of them and changing things. Using the keyboard commands is just as fast and easier for me to handle.
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I was fine without one for the first 4 years of using Lightroom. It's only of any real use for the adjustment brush.
John, it's like anything - it is what you get used to really. I just find using a mouse very fatiguing for the back of my hand. Using the Wacom has transformed my comfort.
Jim
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Wrong kind of mouse then!
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I really only use mine for the adjustment brush in LR/ACR, and in painting masks and drawing selections in Photoshop. For everything else, a trackball is way faster for me, though I suppose I could train myself to use only the pen and it would be about the same.
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Wrong kind of mouse then!
That could be the case, but I have used the Wacom exclusively for so long it just feels like an extension to my body now and I cannot imagine not using it. Because I use it for everything I have developed extremely fine control. Having the hot keys just under my left hand when it is resting is also a huge benefit. I edit a lot of weddings and for much of the time my left hand can rest on the side of the tablet and just my index finger moves between the keys. I use the hot-keys for shortcuts in all programmes including Safari when web browsing.
Jim
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I'm glad I asked and this has been a nice discussion. Based upon this, I'll go with a Intuos4 Medium Size and see if I can learn to use the pencil to cover, at the least, LR adjustment brush function.
Thanks everyone,
John Caldwell
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I actually changed my mind a couple of years ago after years of trying to get used to tablets. It only happened when I forced myself to use a tablet that Adobe leant to me for a trade show. After 4 days demoing PS/LR with this Intuos 4 / medium (and having lots of visitors asking exactly your question), I wasn't totally hooked but I'd found enough uses to make me get out my wallet. Two years later, I'm still using it for specific tasks - and using the mouse for everything else. But the point is - when you do get the tablet, force yourself to use it for a while and keep the mouse out of reach. If you still don't adapt to it....
John
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One other thing to consider regarding the size - I have an Intuos 4 medium, and got tired of chasing the pen all around the surface.
I noted in the current issue of NAPP's Photoshop User magazine (Sept-2012) that on page 84 Corey Barker (the NAPP tablet guru!) makes a case for the SMALL tablet. He says "I like the small tablet because I don't like to use big arm gestures when I'm working. The small tablet allows me to pivot on my wrist and cover the entire screen with small movements."
This makes sense to me and I will retry my hate-love of tablets with an Intuos 5 small wireless tablet.
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Thank you, jpgman. But can't you calibrate pen movement so that a small pen displacement translates to a large on-screen movement? You know, like we can with a mouse.
John
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Absolutely, but , remember, the calibration is full tablet area = full monitor area, so a smaller tablet requires smaller movements for the same screen movements. Unlike a mouse which can be "speeded up" the tablet maps the monitor to it's full surface area - or else how would it know where you are?
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Good point. You can tell I've never used a tablet I guess..
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I guess one could "calibrate" the tablet to only use "part of the surface" (tape off an area?) - I don't know if the tablet calibration SW will allow this! I'm going out for the night, so I can't try now, but, the other issue is desk real estate - if you have a large empty desktop (I don't) then there would be plenty of room for any size tablet and your keyboard, but if not, then the small tablet will have an added benefit to sit side by side or below your keyboard. The tablet can eliminate the mouse (if you let it) but, it cannot replace any keyboard functions.
I found it interesting that the current touch sensitive Intuos 5 tablets no longer include a Wacom mouse (which all previous Wacom tablets did!) - but it seems to be an extra cost ($70) accessory if wanted for certain tasks.
Don't worry, with adequate desk space your present mouse will continue to work with both the keyboard and tablet loaded.
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I have a small tablet at home (the Bamboo -- run screaming in the other direction if you see one) and the large Intuos 3 at work. I MUCH prefer the larger table in part because of the whole arm movements -- this helps with my wrist and hand problems. YMMV.
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I should have checked earlier - scaling for a smaller active area is possible (and recommended by Wacom - Technical Note: Setting a small active area within the tablet can help in reducing repetitive motion injuries to your wrist and elbow (See: Workspace Ergonomics).
Apparently, this was necessary for those with multiple monitors of different sizes!
http://www.automotiveillustrations.com/tutorials/wacom-drawing-tablet-tutorial.html
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I used to use the more basic Wacom in a small A6 size many years ago, and this was always alongside my keyboard where the mouse would have been. When I changed over to a bigger Intuos 3 that was not practical and so I put the Tablet in front of the screen with the keyboardbehind it. This almost put me back to square one with getting the coordination right again! Now I could not revert back. Funny thing learning motor skills. As John said though, when you start off put the mouse away and do everything with the tablet and pen. It will be painful but it is the only way to learn I think.
Jim
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Here's my history. NEC 27" monitor (lots of real estate). My first tablet was an Intuos 4 medium. What I discovered quickly is that the pad is very much too large, even for "fine work" with the brush tool. I ended up rescaling to an area that (quite by accident) is about exactly the size of the "small" Intuos tablets. Lesson learned. There's more to be gained by changing the image magnification than there is in having a large pad where it takes a lot of hand/pen movement.
BUT WAIT! I then read about the Intuos 5, that can be used wirelessly with an extra little module from Wacom. I bought the small size. REVOLUTION. The 5 models use "gestures" so that in addition to the pen / brush you also have what amounts to a huge "mouse pad." This eliminates for me the back and forth from mouse for "some things" and pen for brushes. I couldn't live w/o my I-5 now, and I wasn't particularly a fan of the I-4 due to its limited used for fine brush work w/ the adjustment brushes.
When I now add the greater range of controls available in LR4 "as brushes" (e.g. selective noise reduction) I find the I-5 being used even more than previously. Mind you, all of this commentary coming from a "non-tablet" guy in general.
Before you pull the trigger on an I-4, be sure to check out the 5. As for the buttons, another feature of the 5 that I like better is that when you hover/light press a button (all customizable, by the way for almost any key-stroke / function in LR) you get an "on screen display" of what action that button will produce if you actually push it. At first I thought the lack of LCD labels on the buttons of the 5 a "take away" from the 4 model, but in actual use keeping my eye on the monitor turns out to be way better.
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I use a Wacom Intuous 5 with Lightroom everytime I use Lightroom... and Photoshop... and Word...and Chrome... and PTGui... and the list goes on.
The Intuous 5 is extremelyprogrammable and control input be either with the stylus and with both a single and multi-finger "gestures". In fact you use fingers and stylus simultaneously. Of course brush size and width are easily controlled.
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Great to hear of a use for your "non-stylus hand" on the Intuos 5 models. Would sure love to see a video of an experienced user working with both hands on a model 5.
Regarding 5 users, have you found it worth buying the mouse accessory, or any other Wacom accessories?
Thanks to all for such a good discussion.
John Caldwell
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John
The answer depends on what other programs you use other than ones like Phototshop/Lightroom, which are more suitable to the tablet, and you don't say that.
Also, I'd recommend buying the mouse you want, not one that happens to come from Wacom.
John
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John
The answer depends on what other programs you use other than ones like Phototshop/Lightroom, which are more suitable to the tablet, and you don't say that.
Also, I'd recommend buying the mouse you want, not one that happens to come from Wacom.
John
I'll second this. I use a Logitech mouse. Works fine in conjunction w/ the I-5 when needed. No need to spend money on the Wacom mouse if you already have one you like.
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Joe, Can you please list and describe the customizations that you have done with the tablet. It would help me figure out some other uses for it when working in LR/PS. Right now I only use the pen as a brush, but it sounds like you have taken more control of it for other uses that I would like to hear about. It might inspire me to use it more.
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For starters re customization, can stylus pressure be mapped to Adjustment Brush Flow in LR?
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You can in the sense that you can customize what the computer recognizes as you pressing hard or pressing soft. It's not specifically-mapped to Lightroom.
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Thanks. I'll just need to start fooling with this to understand I'm sure. I was hoping that pressing hard vs. soft could be recognized as different in a PS or LR brush sense.
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Sorry, I think it may be possible. I was just setting the Express Keys (button on the tablet) for Lightroom 4.2 and saw that you can also set an application-specific "tip feel". I'm not sure why one would do so - for something intended to be intuitive, I think I'd want the tool to have similar responsiveness wherever I'm "painting".
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One more opinion (not mine)
http://www.mattk.com/2012/08/24/the-wacom-pen-tablet-that-i-swear-by/
Mike.
P.S. I'm left-handed but I taught myself from day one (the original Macs, remember those?) to use a mouse right-handed. It works fine, but for mask selection in LR, I'd probably be better with a tablet and my left hand. Been meaning to give one a shot.
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One more opinion (not mine)
http://www.mattk.com/2012/08/24/the-wacom-pen-tablet-that-i-swear-by/
Mike.
P.S. I'm left-handed but I taught myself from day one (the original Macs, remember those?) to use a mouse right-handed. It works fine, but for mask selection in LR, I'd probably be better with a tablet and my left hand. Been meaning to give one a shot.
I work the same way as the author in the link, anchor the heel of my hand and move the wrist to draw, move the hand carefully at the end of the stroke (unless I am painting or selecting a large area where accuracy is not required). So for me the small tablet is the best choice.
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One more opinion (not mine)
http://www.mattk.com/2012/08/24/the-wacom-pen-tablet-that-i-swear-by/
Mike.
Pretty much sums up how I feel about and use the tablet.
Jim
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John, it's like anything - it is what you get used to really. I just find using a mouse very fatiguing for the back of my hand. Using the Wacom has transformed my comfort.
Jim
Same here, if I were to use the Mouse for 3h straight on Lightroom, my wrist would start straining, switching between the pen and mouse works for me.
There are slight advantages for both the mouse and pen, a combination of both is the best.
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After living with the Intuos5 Small for a month, I thought I'd give an update.
The only addition the tablet brings to Lightroom for me resides in the brush and the rotary dial. Let me state what I couldn't find stated explicitly online, or what Wacom never answered in my written inquiry: The pen defaults to pressure-sensitivity when using the adjustment brush. This allows Flow to be numerically set at 100% in the LR Brush dialog, a setting I'd rarely use with a mouse. This permits stylus pressure to deliver 0% flow at minimum pressure, and 100 flow at "maximum" pressure. If your Flow had been numerically programmed instead to 49%, then maximum pressure would stroke at only a 49% flow. You could define minimum and maximum stylus pressure to instead deliver "full flow all the time" if you preferred.
The rotary dial, which I operate with my non-dominant hand, allows modulation of brush size or zoom ratio on the fly. This pen-dial combo is, for me, valuable in a way that a mouse or trackpad isn't. The programmable buttons on the pad itself, or the side buttons on the pen, haven't replaced what single keystrokes offer my workflow. The pad's gesture surface is nice, but I'm still reaching for my trackpad out of habit. Using the stylus to click and point, meaning unrelated to brush function, is OK and probably fine once your brain is trained to understand the "absolute mapping" of stylus location and screen location.
I can't imagine using anything larger than a Small Intuos, as pen movements would become very large in scale to cover the monitor real estate. In fact, I have experimented with calibrating the pad surface area to less than what's available on the size small pad with the goal of economy of wrist motion.
Stylus function in Photoshop is different, and grander, and it's easy to see why the Photoshop artists use these pads.
I'm enjoying the Intuos5 with Lightroom and imagine I'll continue to use it. I could not, through, claim to have found the pad as quickly irreplaceable as I'd hoped it would be. It is understood that the learning curve to, in particular, stylus location and movements makes incorporation of the Wacom into the workflow of the uninitiated (like me) not an over-night process. In no way to I discount the testimony of other users in their finding the Wacom Intuos of tremendous value.
John Caldwell