Luminous Landscape Forum
The Art of Photography => The Coffee Corner => Topic started by: Chris Calohan on July 28, 2012, 09:09:16 am
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Sometimes, I like this forum, other times not as much. Sometimes it seems as if only a handful of contributors control all conversations, many of which in the Critique section seem far more interested in creating conflict in place of critique and they tend to be a bit clicquish. This is probably true of most forums, so therefore nothing to get one's panties in a wad over. That all being said, what I generally have discovered regarding this forum is the wealth of information about cameras, lenses, focal distance calculators and "goodies." For gearheads, this place can be a Nirvana sort of experience. I'm not a gearhead, but I do on occasion find nice "extras" to add to my burgeoning carry-all camera bag.
Like today, for instance, I found a site linking me to NPN and from that site I found the Plamp and Litedisc reflectors..whoohoo, while not earth shattering finds, when you live in an area such as I do and there's almost always a breeze, a plamp can be just what the frustration doctor ordered. The Litediscs are more for convenience than not knowing I need them. I do and up until this order relied on cards and other homemade contraptions. In my now retired years (started June 6th), I am starting to like "easy" more and more.
Anywho, I will continue, contributing when I can, learning everything I can get out of those willing to share and watching the catcalling. It is afterall, entertaining whilst I watch it rain - again - like it has for the last 29 days straight. Sheese!
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What you might be seeing as a problem is actually the result of natural forces at work or at play, depending how they feel at the time.
Inevitably, there are people who have something to say, some who have nothing to say and even those who have lots to say but not the means of saying it. There's no way around that, and in general, it all works pretty well. In the years I've been here, I can only think of two writers who've been hoofed out, which is saying something!
A further problem - if it is one - is that there's no level playing field of age, photographic ability, photographic desires, nor even of financial clout in the sense of what it's possible for each member to own in the way of equipment.
In my own case, I'm a retired pro with a reasonably successful career behind me, in that after my start in '60 I never had to do anything else to earn my living than photography. So that places me into some difficult situations, such as having a helluva lot of understanding of what it takes to survive as a snapper, never mind become successful in the iconic sense of success, something that precious few in this business ever achieve, though I'm sure it's a carrot acting as a sort of drug to keep one keeping on truckin' when things look pretty grim. So, it is more than a little bit irritating to read some of the bullshit that some writers contribute on the matter. But that's really their ignorance and one should just sigh and move on.
Gear-talk is sustaining until you reach a point in your experience where you realise that no, it's not doing it for you, that it's you that's doing or not doing the right things by your photographic progress. That point reached, techie chat loses its appeal and crosses over into boredom. If you look at the different, broad divisions of LuLa you'll discover that few (if any) of the regular contributors to the Medium Format/Pro sections ever show their noses in Critique or Coffee Corner zones... these just don't hold relevance to their lives and knowledge. For my part, I contribute very little in Pro sections because being long out of it, it feels wrong to poke in an opinion. Also, there's the phenomenon where so many writers write so convincingly about theory but are able to show almost nothing worth looking at despite all of that theory, which frequently raises the one about those who teach and those who do, etc.etc..
Nothing fits all, unless a mass grave.
(Even if as in your case it's been raining for twenty-nine days, in which event you might be looking at a swimming pool.)
Rob C
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Interesting observations by Chris and Rob.
I think the moment a forum such as this is "perfect" for any particular individual it probably becomes largely useless for most others.
The strength of LuLa is in its very weakness in that it just doesn't perfectly suit anyone.
I confess to being a bit bored and frustrated at times because most of the conversation revolves around a particular camera body that I will likely never own, and there do not appear to be any new images to critique, and I do not have any images or news to contribute myself.
Then after a few days much more interesting posts (for me anyway) start to appear again and I feel much more engaged again.
I am sure that most forum members can recognize a similar pattern of experience on the forum.
Nonetheless, there is also an enormous amount of, usually, entertaining humour that tends to surface when things are bit slow.
Ultimately, photography does not appear to be the preserve of the fool and the intellectually light so there is almost always something to enjoy, even if it is only the humour that I mentioned before.
A great resource made much the greater for the incredible diversity of its contributors.
My humble opinion
Tony Jay
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I think the moment a forum such as this is ‘perfect’ for any particular individual it probably becomes largely useless for most others.
The strength of LuLa is in its very weakness in that it just doesn't perfectly suit anyone.
A great resource made much the greater for the incredible diversity of its contributors.
Tony Jay
Be selective in your reading (better wording of thread titles would help here on occasion!).
Remember the writers who you enjoy reading, even if it can be off-topic for you.
And be patient with those from other countries, where English is often their second, or third, language.
;D
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For better or for worse, this is a fine forum. Everything has its strengths and weaknesses. The net result is that a lot of people from all over the world come here to share their interests in photography. Some forum members are lurkers, some are wallflowers, some are contributors, and some are passionate contributors.
OT--On another note, my thoughts are with MR and his family. Get well soon, Michael. Thank you for all that you do for photohounds worldwide.
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I come here to find answers to specific questions. Sometimes they are questions I ask, sometime others have already ask the right questions. I am perfectly content to find value in knowledgable contributors and ignore others who at times seem to be shouting just to hear the sound of their own voices. That is life on a discussion board. I try to contribute when I have specific, helpful knowledge and tend to stay quiet on topics that I can't make substantive contribution to. I will occasionally have a fit of humor. But it's not unusual for me to be only one who understands my humor. It is rare for me to visit the Coffee Corner. I usually find what I need in two or three of the sub-forums related to my interests or needs. You have to admit this forum has a darn fine name.
I'll take this opportunity to add my voice to those wishing Michael a complete and speedy recovery.
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I come here to find answers to specific questions. Sometimes they are questions I ask, sometime others have already ask the right questions. I am perfectly content to find value in knowledgable contributors and ignore others who at times seem to be shouting just to hear the sound of their own voices. That is life on a discussion board. I try to contribute when I have specific, helpful knowledge and tend to stay quiet on topics that I can't make substantive contribution to. I will occasionally have a fit of humor. But it's not unusual for me to be only one who understands my humor. It is rare for me to visit the Coffee Corner. I usually find what I need in two or three of the sub-forums related to my interests or needs. You have to admit this forum has a darn fine name.
I'll take this opportunity to add my voice to those wishing Michael a complete and speedy recovery.
Dave –
Not a criticism of your attitude in particular, or even at all, but perhaps an illustration of why some think that a minority contributes a little too much.
Where there’s a lack of contributor numbers (as distinct from passive readers) it will always seem as if a few do all the chatting – it’s obvious and has only one solution: more folks should write a little more – might even discover they enjoy it and have more to contribute than they’d imagined.
There’s little need for being an expert on techniques etc. because those people don’t, as a rule (wait for the exceptions!), say very much that’s of interest beyond the little field in which lies their expertise - it’s not going to be conducive to any great exchange of ideas, just of more technical mumbo jumbo that’s light years removed from the actual art of making pretty pictures, something which is open to its own share of abuse, but why shouldn’t folks do what they please with their cameras? It’s the pseudo intellectualization of some of the stuff that can turn folks off – if a picture’s got ‘it’ then no-one needs to describe or explain ‘it’ out loud – folks get it by themselves and if not, then often there’s not a lot to get.
I’ve also learned greatly from the Internet about digital photography – in fact, a lot more than I have managed to glean from books which I find can be somewhat opaque if only because they can assume more prior understanding about the subject than the reader might actually have. So the opportunity of follow-up questions is invaluable to the struggle through the techie maze. However, using that ‘service’ aspect alone makes for a rather dull space; without the added chat etc. I doubt that I’d visit this spot anywhere as regularly as I actually do and, I suspect, more than a few other people would share similar sentiments.
At the end of the day, for me at least, it’s the human content here that makes it worth the repeated visits.
Rob C
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Just a thought: if we didn't have LuLa, where would we go?
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Just a thought: if we didn't have LuLa, where would we go?
I might spend more time photographing, but the results might well not be up to what I get now.
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Just a thought: if we didn't have LuLa, where would we go?
That's a very real fear. I used to be happy in the BJP forum for some time, in fact it was my first foray into Internet chat. There, I met several guys with whom I still have cordial relationships and some of us even continue to exchange views here! However, towards the end of my stay there, there entered a sort of thug element, and I decided that there really wasn't any added value in hanging around to be abused, so I did the sensible thing, for a change. Later, the BJP site seemed to close down its forum, a sad event, considering how good I thought it used to be, and one that could have been prevented via some intervention by the magazine's head honchos.
So yes, I think we'd all be far the more poor by losing LuLa; God forbid it ever happens!
Rob C
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So yes, I think we'd all be far the more poor by losing LuLa; God forbid it ever happens!
Absolutely in agreement Rob
Regards
Tony Jay
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… there entered a sort of thug element, and I decided that there really wasn't any added value in hanging around to be abused, so I did the sensible thing …
Happens (http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/opinion/blogs/blunt-instrument/why-ill-be-kicking-you-off-this-blog-20120808-23u7p.html) in all sorts of places.
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As Rob knows, I have never been a fan of LuLa and, as the cyber world matures and forms into a more definite thing I feel that the era of the internet forum (particularly where photography is concerned) is a total waste of space and well past its use-by date.
I paddle in the shore break here and occasionally participate but if it disappeared I'd have to go back to conversing with Rob via email.
Cheers,
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Walter -
I haven't really been part of many forums - the only two where I spend/spent time are this one and the lamented BJP; however, beyond photography is where I think LuLa offers a lot. I've posted here several times that photography itself really hasn't much to write about: you do it or you chat about it, and seldom have you time for both. (And when you chat about it you inevitable start to go around in the same, perpetual circles.) We've tried smaller groups and they die because of the lack of critical mass and the ease with which things splinter.
I accept that for many technical questions it's the best available source of help, far better (for my sort of head) than a manual. But if you remove the camera/processes part of photography from the equation, it comes down to ideas. However, long ago I discovered that there are always going to be very few people upon whose views you will place much credence, here on the Internet or in life outwith it. So, as I've already stated in these pages, the principal draw (for me, here) is conversation.
This might read a little bit 'sad' and probably is, but it's also my reality: there isn't anyone around where I live who shares remotely similar interests. Without Internet, as expensive as it is here, I'd find myself totally marooned on a desert island inhabited by savages. Not that Mallorca is any desert: it's beautiful and has all any snapper could wish, and that's what brought my wife and me here - the locations for work. What the place doesn't have is the metropolis infrastructure that photographers need: we always imported our models. Wife and work now memory - what the hell's left? ARAT? I tried that, but it didn't salve my soul. Music? Same old faces over and over... So, as many before me have found, photography just isn't enough to sustain - you ned a complete package.
There was a time in our lives when we could have settled anywhere in Europe; why we didn't go to Rome instead is something I have never quite been able to answer fully.
Rob C
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"Just a thought if we did not have LuLa where would we go?"
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Hmm, at least 2 to 3 hours a day spent on LuLa.
Yikes,thats a thousand hours a year.
Heaven forbid,what would I do? :)
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Hmm, at least 2 to 3 hours a day spent on LuLa.
Yikes,thats a thousand hours a year.
Heaven forbid,what would I do? :)
My lame excuse is that I'm usually running prints when I'm here. Or resting my poor aching back between framed pieces.
Has anybody considered going out and taking pictures?
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My lame excuse is that I'm usually running prints when I'm here. Or resting my poor aching back between framed pieces.
Has anybody considered going out and taking pictures?
In order to... ?
Rob C
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In order to... ?
Feel the cool breezes on one's face.
Huff and puff pleasantly over hill and dale.
See the cute little bunnies, birdies, squirrels, and deer. And the not quite so cute coyotes, bears, and cougars. And watch a hawk making lazy circles in the sky.
See the glorious sunset, gawk at majestic cumulus buildups, and smell the sweetly pungent air.
Earn money to buy food and Internet Access, and to generally pay one's bills.
Delay death by boredom, don't neglect that one.
The list goes on. It's all well worth the occasional insect bite.
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In order to... ?
Rob C
In order to spend time posting them to LuLa. :D
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Feel the cool breezes on one's face.
Huff and puff pleasantly over hill and dale.
See the cute little bunnies, birdies, squirrels, and deer. And the not quite so cute coyotes, bears, and cougars. And watch a hawk making lazy circles in the sky.
See the glorious sunset, gawk at majestic cumulus buildups, and smell the sweetly pungent air.
Earn money to buy food and Internet Access, and to generally pay one's bills.
Delay death by boredom, don't neglect that one.
The list goes on. It's all well worth the occasional insect bite.
Admirable, Bill, but you need a camera for that?
;-)
Rob C
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In order to spend time posting them to LuLa. :D
This is an interesting medical conundrum: I do the postprandial walks in order to aid my digestion but, mainly, exercise the heart as every good boy does when his cardio so orders. Now, since the cellpix happen during these hour-long exposures to the world at large, is there not a sort of negative (n.p.i) effect or value being introduced because, as direct result, I then spend hours seated in awe at the feet foot of the monitor defeating the benefits of the walk?
I don't really want to consult the consultant; he might suggest a photography consultant (they keep it in the family, you know, just like lawyers!).
Speaking of which, I know that I shall have to read that Ansel Adams book twice. The second time will be in order to copy down quotations from the man. There's a beatiful one which relates to his 'workshops' run in tandem with Minor White... I'm happy to see my opinions on such influences on students borne out and commented upon by one such guru himself. As revealing as those comments, the one where my theory about having or not having 'it' in the genes is verbalised in relationship to students and the suggestion that there are those who'd be better off doing something quite else.
I had never suspected that AA was such a frank debunker of cant.
A wonderful gift, Patricia!
Rob C
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Indulge a passion, get out more, stave off depression, scratch the creative itch, enjoy, meet people, occupy the mind, give meaning to life, quit forum addiction…
Any one would be worth the effort, who knows where a combination might lead.
Let me tell you where: depression, too many temporary people, false meaning to life; just as you mentioned, but backwards, if you see what I mean.
Passion is okay for kids; with old smokies it's a bit pointless. Just like sex on beta-blockers: best forgotten before it drives you suicidal or insane, or both. Hell, might as well take up photography instead!
But look, Montalbano is scheduled to be back on the Beeb, so I can always indulge my little dreams of seaside Italy. Actually, I don't really have any such dreams, I've already got seaside and it doesn't come without its costs: I suspect that its benign influence is what killed off olde Rusty... but I still like the programme very much. It has charm. Also, his bird is something else!
Anyway, my white blind background is supposed to be available tomorrow, so I can at last boast a natural light, semi-open/covered studio. Or I will if it materialises. Perhaps models will still remain phantom, but I suppose I could always shoot a few dead flowers. Or half-dead musicians... That might be an idea for a self-portrait. Gotta buy a D800 to do myself justice! ;-)
Rob C
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Passion is okay for kids; with old smokies it's a bit pointless. Just like sex on beta-blockers: best forgotten before it drives you suicidal or insane, or both.
It's actually very useful: when people are young they tell you that life is pointless without sex, then when they are old they actually get to make the choice: take the Beta blocker if you want to life a little longer, however dull, or take Viagra for a bit more excitement. Interestingly, most choose to live a little longer, but alas, at what expense...
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That might be an idea for a self-portrait. Gotta buy a D800 to do myself justice! ;-)
Ah, yes, the ultimate sharp image of a fuzzy subject...