Luminous Landscape Forum
Raw & Post Processing, Printing => Printing: Printers, Papers and Inks => Topic started by: Roscolo on July 16, 2012, 01:10:42 pm
-
Look at the photo to see what my problem is. Since I replaced my belt, it's like every paper I use has gotten thicker. I can workaround the problem on matte paper, but trying to calibrate Sunset Select Canvas and the head is hitting the edge of the canvas closest to the carriage pretty good.
Setting up a new paper preset for canvas doesn't allow one the option of adjusting for thickness.
Don't know what caused it. Keep thinking of when I turned that screw during the belt replacement you have to turn to release the carriage. You know, the screw you can't tell if you're actually turning or not. May not be the problem.
Any suggestions on the fix for this?
Thanks
-
How is the platen height set on your printer? Is the head gap set high?
On my 9900 it has to be wider for canvas media or I can have the same problem.
-
How is the platen height set on your printer? Is the head gap set high?
On my 9900 it has to be wider for canvas media or I can have the same problem.
That's just it. I don't know if / how to adjust this on the z3100. Creating a new paper preset, you can adjust it for some papers, but on canvas the option is unavailable. Picking through the Service Manual now to try to diagnose.
-
Actually, I don't know why HP put "Paper Thickness" in the "Change Printing Properties" menu in Color Center...you can't change paper thickness for any paper, or at least none of the 20 or so I've tried so far.
-
Did the Carriage Assembly test in the Service Menu and got error 55:11 for the Line Sensors. So I'll try to calibrate the Line Sensors again.
Anyone else have Line Sensor problems after replacing the belt? Something just needs to be cleaned perhaps, or just replace the Line Sensor?
-
Line Sensor Calibration and I get an Error code 48.
Now on to Scan Axis PRS test. Should have an idea what the problem is soon.
-
During Scan Axis PRS test I get:
PRS Position UNKNOWN
then
Moving PRS to HIGH
then
Moving PRS to LOW
then I get Error 48.
Any idea what I need to replace?
Thanks
-
Well, did some calibrations and diagnostics. Never got it all the way through the Scan Axis PRS test. Got through all the others though. After all that I'm still getting black ink smears on canvas. Looks like I can still use this printer to print on regular paper though, so I'll use it for that until it dies and then toss it. If no one chimes in here with a fix I'll just upgrade to a Canon or a z3200. Based on most other experiences here, looks like 5 years is the lifespan for the original parts on the z3100 anyway. I'm going on 6 years now. Looks like when your belt wears out that's your first warning sign to be ready for downtime. After that it's replace this and replace that. Which is great for the hobbyist, but my customers won't tolerate the downtime or waiting around for HP tech or troubleshooting. As a photographer I really like this printer, and it has worked well for my clients and their demands. Definitely not a speedy workhorse production machine for a busy shop, though, unless you've got some backup.
-
I know how you feel after having the Z3100 go unreliable on me- only 6 months after replacing the belt. I never had your issues with head strikes. You may want to check the star wheel assembly. Possibly the tiny starwheels arnt properly seating and not feeding the thicker canvas thru properly. Just a guess but you shouldn't have these issues.
Also try an HP canvas preset and see if it makes any difference. As for upgrading to the Z3200 I'd do it again. Just not being forced to, as like you, I have customers with deadlines to meet.
Neal
-
It's bizarre, because I can get near perfect results on Matte Litho. Just a little smudge on the first half inch of a print sometimes, so I just add an inch to everything. Unfortunately 2/3 of my work for hire is canvas. I just don't have time to replace every little thing on this printer, at least not until I have a replacement printer and this can be my "project." lol Since I replaced the belt, it's just a little more noisy when it goes to the Ink Station on the right, but only when I turn it on or do diagnostics. When I'm printing normally, it sounds sweet and smooth, like new. Had a noise kinda like a duck call caused by the carriage just barely touching a piece of plastic part of the printer body...fixed that though. Have to say though it was near perfect for the first 5 years. Probably be OK now if I just new exactly what the problem / solution is. Going to try putting a fresh roll of canvas in there and see what that does.
Have to start looking for a deal on z3200. Canon still has no spectro photo on board. Deal killer right there for the type of work I do.
So much for printing on HP Satin photo paper. Head strikes galore on that too.
-
Did the Restore Factory Settings on the menu. Then tried to do the Service level Paper Advance Calibration, the one you have to do on HP Glossy. Here it is! Does that picture tell you anything other than this z3100 is crapping out? Messy. Something's up. It makes a "clunk" sound when it goes to the Station on the Right when doing the calibration. Everything works pretty normal, but you get that clunk sound. Unless you're printing for real and not doing a Service Diagnostic print. Then no "clunk" sound. And head strikes, smears UNLESS the media is HP Matte Litho.
Funny, though. I can totally get away with printing on HP Matte Litho, but that's it. Fortunately the job I had a next day deadline for when I did the belt replacement was a $1,200 job on...yep...HP Matte Litho!
-
For comparison here's a Service Diagnostic done on HP Matte Litho. Pretty close to perfect. Handheld, not so sharp photo, but you get the idea.
-
It sounds like you might have broken one of the plastic bushings putting the unit back on the rail, especially if you tried turning the station lock screw back the other way, which so many people have, even through there's no instruction to do so. The screw simply unlocks the heads but if you then keep turning it starts to flip the station and screws up the auto return. All you have to do is turn it a few times until the heads slide and that's ALL.
I would take it apart and inspect your carriage.
You can see others did the same as you in the comments here: http://bgpictures.com/2011/03/11/hp-z3100-drive-belt-replacement-how-to-video/ (http://bgpictures.com/2011/03/11/hp-z3100-drive-belt-replacement-how-to-video/)
-
Thanks. Don't think that's the problem though. I never felt anything break. I took the right cover off just to double check the screw issue. That screw gives no resistance. Turning the screw will never flip the station. You can turn the screw and see all it does is move the piece where the carriage parks back and forth. Turn one way, it moves it in. Turn the other, it moves it out. The screw is still doing what it's supposed to do, so I think I have eliminated that from the equation. And that doesn't the near perfect results on HP Matte Litho.
I'm thinking Line Sensor. This thing is old enough it's probably like a Volvo - it's at that point where all the parts are going to start failing. Looks like if you get 5-6 years, you did good. After that, just a matter of time. I'll tinker with it in my spare time, but time I fix one thing I'm sure it will be something else. Looks like I'm extraordinarily lucky to still be using my original HD and formatter.
Good news is I can use my ink carts from this in a new z3200. Hope HP improved the belt between 2006 and now. If I can print on a new one for 5-6 years with no probs like this one, I'll be happy.
-
I also have Z3100 old as your. Belt was ehchange last year by official serviceman. Printer works perfectly after that.
-
I had my belt replaced twice, once every three years and have never had any strike issues UNLESS I was using a fiber gloss paper toward the end of the roll and it was curling badly.
I did notice the last time he replaced it the printer sounded different like the belt was too tight but that went away after a day of use.
This does definitely does sound like a problem with the adjustable star wheel assembly that you feed the paper under. I'll bet you the technician didn't put it back properly and do the adjustment. I would call them for support even if you are out of warranty and have to pay for the call, I'll be they can straighten this out. But before that I would delete the software and totally reload it including the most recent firmware. The firmware has an effect on paper thickness settings.
John
-
This does definitely does sound like a problem with the adjustable star wheel assembly that you feed the paper under. I'll bet you the technician didn't put it back properly and do the adjustment. I would call them for support even if you are out of warranty and have to pay for the call, I'll be they can straighten this out. But before that I would delete the software and totally reload it including the most recent firmware. The firmware has an effect on paper thickness settings.
John
Thanks. The star wheel assembly has never been removed. The only HP Diagnostic test my printer fails involves the Line Sensor. Thanks for the tip on the software / firmware reload. Going to do that. Already have a Canon ipf8300 on the way. Couldn't turn down a good deal. Less than half what I paid for my z3100 5 or 6 years ago! At some point I will resolve this problem with my z3100. As it is it still prints PERFECT on HP Matte Litho, and that's my #1 paper so even if I don't resolve the problem it has usefulness.
-
Bingo! Haven't gotten the part yet, but the Carriage Rear Bushing had come off (found it up in the left side of the printer). Unfortunately it's broken (mega el cheapo HP plastic build quality here, but hey, it matches the HP belt!) so I can't put it back on. Looks like a new part that should cost $1 is going to run me about $30-$35. If anyone knows a good place to get the part, let me know.
My belt actually didn't just disintegrate, it shredded and broke in the printer while printing, (went EVERYWHERE) so it probably happened then or when I put the Carriage Assembly back on. Would be very easy for this cheapo plastic to come off or break. Good news is the Canon ipf8300 will be here this week, so I should have both printers up and running eventually. I may just put the Canon rebate towards an i1 pro.
Have gotten lots of mileage from the z3100, but having worked on this thing now and seeing some of the really poor build quality I understand why HP has discontinued both the z3100 and the z3200. Can't imagine how much they have spent sending techs out to replace the pain-in-the-arse ice cream sprinkle littering belt and this piece of bubble-gum machine plastic bushing.
Even more strange to me now that the printer prints perfect on HP Matte Litho without the rear bushing on there at all. That paper must be the PERFECT thickness for a bushing-free carriage!
EDIT: Just ordered the bushing from LPS Computer (same place I got the belt replacement). Didn't find the part on their website, but gave 'em a call and they had it. $29 including shipping.
-
So, just as I got to the stage of assembling the Canon ipf8300 where you need 4 weightlifters to put it on the stand, UPS showed up with my Rear Carriage Bushing for the z3100. Props to LPS Computer for sending not one but two, just in case. Very nice.
So, I just got the Rear Carriage Bushing and put it on. That appears to have been the problem. Printer printed perfect Calibration and Profile pattern on HP Prem ID Satin.
So, any of you who want to convince your spouse that you "need" another wide format printer, just follow my steps here. Now I have a perfect printing z3100 and a brand new Canon ipf8300. Only paid $2500 for the Canon, after rebate.
-------
I'll probably post this little tidbit in its own thread as well just for reference: If you need to replace or install the Rear Carriage Bushing on the z3100 / z3200, the manual tells you to essentially disassemble the ENTIRE printer just like you have to do to replace the belt. YOU DO NOT HAVE TO DO THIS (if you're careful.) Just remove the Right Cover. When you pull the Carriage all the way to the right, (use a bright light shining in there so you can see), you will see where the Bushing goes (look at the diagram in the Service Manual). I just used a pair of needle nose pliers to hold the bushing so I didn't lose it, and using a tiny 4 inch screwdriver (tiny like you could remove the back of a watch with it), was able to gently force the far end of the bushing into the hole. Then HOLD ON TO THE BUSHING WITH YOUR PLIERS, push or pull back that fleshy colored piece of rubber thingy in the way, and you can easily apply tension install the near end of the bushing into the corresponding hole. I just saved you about 8 hours of headache, and the likelihood that you lose/break your bushing again when you put the Carriage back on!
-
Told you so.
-
I have a Z3200 ps, I occasionally get very faint scratches when I print on heavy material and it seems to happen on very curled paper, also sometimes after a print is completed and cut, when I go to do another print, the paper does not feed, so what I am forced to do is do a small paper advance to make sure the paper is advancing before I do a print.
My printer is 3 years old, never had an issue with it.
Curious, how can I optain a service manual ?
Steven
-
I have a Z3200 ps, I occasionally get very faint scratches when I print on heavy material and it seems to happen on very curled paper, also sometimes after a print is completed and cut, when I go to do another print, the paper does not feed, so what I am forced to do is do a small paper advance to make sure the paper is advancing before I do a print.
My printer is 3 years old, never had an issue with it.
Curious, how can I optain a service manual ?
Steven
Steven,
Here is the link to the Service Manual. It's a 6 part PDF download. When you extract the file, those 6 parts will combine into 1 PDF of the Service Manual. Did for me anyway.
http://www.eserviceinfo.com/downloadsm/34193/HP_Z2100%20Z3100.html
On what exact media do you get scratches? Doesn't sound like my problem. I was getting complete smears and lines on canvas and satin photo paper along with a "thunk" sound when the carriage moved all the way to the right. Paper was feeding in OK, but I was getting some snags loading until I replaced the rear carriage bushing. You can look in the Service Manual and see how to do access Service Level calibrations / diagnostics in the printer menu.
If you need to inspect the rear carriage bushing, you do not need to do what the manual says, or what someone here told me to do, which is take the whole printer apart and take the carriage off. Simply remove the right cover and you can inspect the rear carriage bushing from there with a flashlight or lamp and you can even replace it if necessary (see instructions in my previous post or the dedicated thread I created for z3100 Rear Carriage Bushing).
You are 3 years in. Be aware you will start to notice flaking of your carriage belt if you haven't already. Little black flecks in your printer and ON YOUR PRINTS. It's the rubber from the belt coming off. Just a matter of time. My only advice regarding the belt replacement is this:
- Don't wait until it shreds into a bunch of pieces and breaks in the middle of a print like I did before you replace the belt. When this happened, that is likely when the remarkably cheap, flimsy rear carriage bushing was broken.
- Order a Rear Carriage Bushing when you order the belt. I got both from LPS computer. Excellent service. The bushing was only $19 and they sent me two. I did not see the bushing on their site, but I called and they had it. The belt is a pain to replace. It's not hard, mind you. Just a time consuming pain. You should replace the bushing while you have the printer torn down. Save you from having to worry about it later like I did. And you may need the bushing if the old one is already broken or breaks when you remove the carriage, which is apparently quite common.
- No way would I put another HP manufactured belt on there. LPS claims to manufacture their own belts and that they are better than HP's. Only time will tell, and I don't know for sure, but I do know the HP belts are crap, so the ones from LPS certainly can't be any worse. My z3100 is working like new now.