Luminous Landscape Forum

Equipment & Techniques => Cameras, Lenses and Shooting gear => Topic started by: Josh-H on June 26, 2012, 07:28:46 am

Title: Battle of the Big Stoppers - LEE vs. Hi-Tech
Post by: Josh-H on June 26, 2012, 07:28:46 am

Results of a weekend test of the LEE vs. Hi-Tech (http://blog.jholko.com/2012/06/24/battle-of-the-big-stoppers-lee-vs-hi-tech-10-stop-nd-filter-showdown/)

Title: Re: Battle of the Big Stoppers - LEE vs. Hi-Tech
Post by: Paul2660 on June 26, 2012, 08:42:00 am

Great shot of London Bridge. 

I have used some of the High Tech ND resin filters, not the 10x but the 1.2 and 0.9.  Both had a slight issue with a magenta cast,
not the blue issue you discovered.  I also found that the Tiffen and Schneider glass ND 1.8 and 1.2 seemed to have some color cast
issues, again mainly on the magenta side.  I just wish Lee would make the Big Stopper for the kit that fits the Nikon 14-24. 

Thanks for article.
Paul

Title: Re: Battle of the Big Stoppers - LEE vs. Hi-Tech
Post by: francois on June 26, 2012, 08:59:26 am

Thanks for sharing the results of your test. I did experience similar issues with Cokin GNDs. Switching to another brand solved the problem...
I would be interested to see whether the Singh Ray Vari ND is affected or not by color cast.

Title: Re: Battle of the Big Stoppers - LEE vs. Hi-Tech
Post by: Chairman Bill on June 26, 2012, 10:41:13 am

My Hi-tech also produces a blue cast. I'd assumed it was a feature of all such filters & hadn't thought of returning it as faulty. I might just have to get in touch with them.

Title: Re: Battle of the Big Stoppers - LEE vs. Hi-Tech
Post by: Bjørn J on June 27, 2012, 04:29:24 pm

Thank you for the link to the test. It convinced me to order the Big Stopper, I found a store in UK who actually had it in stock.
I have the B+W 10-stop ND, but it gives a noticeable magenta cast. I also have the Singh-Ray vari-ND, which has very little colour cast, but is limited to around 7-8 stops.

Title: Re: Battle of the Big Stoppers - LEE vs. Hi-Tech
Post by: ternst on June 27, 2012, 04:51:44 pm

Did I miss the results with the B+W?

Title: Re: Battle of the Big Stoppers - LEE vs. Hi-Tech
Post by: Josh-H on June 27, 2012, 07:50:22 pm

Quote from: ternst on June 27, 2012, 04:51:44 pm

Did I miss the results with the B+W?

No, I didn't bother posting them since I only used the B&W as a comparison to make sure I wasn't seeing things. The B&W I had to hand was a screw in 10 stop for the M9; hence I could not try it on the Canon to be fair. Its performance however was as good as the LEE.

Title: Re: Battle of the Big Stoppers - LEE vs. Hi-Tech
Post by: Sheldon N on June 27, 2012, 08:01:55 pm

I don't know if this was an issue with earlier production or a variation in lots of ND glass, but I had a Lee Big Stopper that was just as wildly blue as your Hitech. I ended up selling it... this was about a year ago.

Title: Re: Battle of the Big Stoppers - LEE vs. Hi-Tech
Post by: PhotoEcosse on June 30, 2012, 03:04:40 pm

I think the big problem with Lee (and maybe other brands), if the reports are to be believed, is inconsistency between batches. Some folk swear by them and others swear at them.Some seem to have very little colour cast, some a blue tinge and some a magenta tinge. Given that it is so easy to produce a Lightroom preset to correct whichever (if any) colour cast a particular filter produces, it probably does not matter too much. Apart from snob value, the £5 cheapos from China via eBay are probably as good as anything more expensive. Certainly for landscape work.

Title: Re: Battle of the Big Stoppers - LEE vs. Hi-Tech
Post by: Josh-H on June 30, 2012, 07:34:39 pm

Quote

Given that it is so easy to produce a Lightroom preset to correct whichever (if any) colour cast a particular filter produces, it probably does not matter too much. Apart from snob value, the £5 cheapos from China via eBay are probably as good as anything more expensive. Certainly for landscape work.

Actually - thats not true. The colour caste is so severe in the Hi-Tech that I tested  that correcting it by adjusting the white balance actually creates other problems - making the filter useless.

Title: Re: Battle of the Big Stoppers - LEE vs. Hi-Tech
Post by: Bart_van_der_Wolf on June 30, 2012, 08:48:29 pm

Quote from: PhotoEcosse on June 30, 2012, 03:04:40 pm

I think the big problem with Lee (and maybe other brands), if the reports are to be believed, is inconsistency between batches.

Maybe, maybe not. I purchased my Lee version after reading a review showing its rendering was on the cool side, but easily corrected. Indeed, mine is rendering on the cool side, but correctable with a boost of the color temperature control :

(http://bvdwolf.home.xs4all.nl/temp/OPF/7852_S.jpg)

Only one quick dash for the camera bag was required to save it from being soaked by the high tide ...

Cheers,
Bart

P.S. I left in the light fall-off of the more oblique rays through the filter, because I liked its effect. I used a TS-E 24mm for this shot. A filter with a thickness of any relevance will show such exaggerated effects on wide angle lenses, which ends the lesson for today ;) .

Title: Re: Battle of the Big Stoppers - LEE vs. Hi-Tech
Post by: ternst on June 30, 2012, 09:41:59 pm

<< Its performance however was as good as the LEE.>>

I think B+Ws are cheaper and a LOT easier to find than Lees, glad to hear they are just as good...

Title: Re: Battle of the Big Stoppers - LEE vs. Hi-Tech
Post by: Bart_van_der_Wolf on June 30, 2012, 10:16:35 pm

Quote from: ternst on June 30, 2012, 09:41:59 pm

<< Its performance however was as good as the LEE.>>

I think B+Ws are cheaper and a LOT easier to find than Lees, glad to hear they are just as good...

They aren't necessarily. The dyes used have a relatively high transmission for near-IR wavelengths.

Cheers,
Bart

Title: Re: Battle of the Big Stoppers - LEE vs. Hi-Tech
Post by: ternst on July 01, 2012, 06:38:19 am

I guess I don't get it -  you JUST said that the B+W filter was "as good as the Lee" - what else is there?

Title: Re: Battle of the Big Stoppers - LEE vs. Hi-Tech
Post by: Bart_van_der_Wolf on July 01, 2012, 09:57:21 am

Quote from: ternst on July 01, 2012, 06:38:19 am

I guess I don't get it -  you JUST said that the B+W filter was "as good as the Lee" - what else is there?

Who? Me? I never said that the B+W was as good, but that its dyes are transparent to near-IR. That's not good, and the Lee 'BigStopper' performs much better in that respect. It is not perfectly neutral in the visible spectrum though, but then none of them are.

To make it even clearer, IR will contaminate all color channels (the Bayer CFAs are also transparent for IR) and produce something like a brown veil that is had to get rid of. A non-neutrality in the visible spectrum though can be removed by colorbalancing or color correcting without the need for an overall saturation (and noise) boost.

Cheers,
Bart

Title: Re: Battle of the Big Stoppers - LEE vs. Hi-Tech
Post by: uaiomex on July 01, 2012, 02:47:30 pm

It is my own personal conclusion that a square 10-stop ND sometimes is a real pain in the butt. If a strong light or direct sunlight strikes on one of the sides, the flare produced can make the picture unusable. You have to watch for this and cover the entire holder with an opaque object to make a sort of a seal.
Next time I buy another 10-stop ND is definitely going to be circular and threaded.
Eduardo  

Title: Re: Battle of the Big Stoppers - LEE vs. Hi-Tech
Post by: ternst on July 01, 2012, 05:14:36 pm

<<Who? Me? I never said that the B+W was as good>>

Oops, I meant that Josh had said that - he was the one doing the testing....happy keyboard fingers replied to the wrong guy I guess! Bottom line is that I think B+Ws are every bit as good as Lees, are cheaper, and a lot easier to find.

Title: Re: Battle of the Big Stoppers - LEE vs. Hi-Tech
Post by: Nacnud on July 03, 2012, 09:01:05 am

Quote from: Sheldon N on June 27, 2012, 08:01:55 pm

I don't know if this was an issue with earlier production or a variation in lots of ND glass, but I had a Lee Big Stopper that was just as wildly blue as your Hitech. I ended up selling it... this was about a year ago.

Odd that nobody picked up on this.
My Lee Big Stopper also has a blue cast.

However, mine is no where near as bad as the Hi-Tech.
All this example taken recently (http://www.wild-landscapes.co.uk/Blog/2012-06-23-TP-Red-Kites/23882385_CMH4xp#!i=1936818458&k=pPDbxXJ&lb=1&s=A) needed to correct the cast was in LR4 setting the white balance to Shade.

(http://www.wild-landscapes.co.uk/Blog/2012-06-23-TP-Red-Kites/i-pPDbxXJ/0/S/20120623-120137-IMG7017-S.jpg)

Title: Re: Battle of the Big Stoppers - LEE vs. Hi-Tech
Post by: Sheldon N on July 03, 2012, 11:45:40 am

Here's what I experienced with the Big Stopper. Both images taken back to back within a minute or so of each other. Left and right sides are the same image with different WB adjustments.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v483/sheldonnalos/BigStopperComparison.jpg)

Title: Re: Battle of the Big Stoppers - LEE vs. Hi-Tech
Post by: jrsforums on July 03, 2012, 11:14:57 pm

Quote from: BartvanderWolf on June 30, 2012, 10:16:35 pm

They aren't necessarily. The dyes used have a relatively high transmission for near-IR wavelengths.

Cheers,
Bart

Would a IR-cut filter "fix" that...such as a http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/718009-REG/B_W_66_098703_66098703_77mm_UV_IR_Cut.html

John

Title: Re: Battle of the Big Stoppers - LEE vs. Hi-Tech
Post by: Bart_van_der_Wolf on July 04, 2012, 05:58:13 am

Quote from: jrsforums on July 03, 2012, 11:14:57 pm

Would a IR-cut filter "fix" that...such as a http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/718009-REG/B_W_66_098703_66098703_77mm_UV_IR_Cut.html

Hi John,

Not necessarily, since the camera already has an IR filter. Perhaps the B+W filter cuts of a little closer to the visual spectrum, in that case it could make a difference.

However, in my experience with these filters (their effect is based on multiple interference coatings), the effect is not uniform across the Field of View. The more oblique rays at the edges and corners, have a longer traveling distance through the coatings and they will therefore attenuate different wavelengths than the chief rays. This results is a significant color cast from the center towards the corners. For Raw converters that allow to correct for such a color cast (e.g. Capture One, RawTherapee), that is less of a problem.

Cheers,
Bart

Title: Re: Battle of the Big Stoppers - LEE vs. Hi-Tech
Post by: rgs on July 10, 2012, 09:47:23 pm

After a good deal of thought about IQ, adaptability, cost, availability and other things, I have just received a Formatt 77mm round glass 8 stop filter. I also intend to get a 3 stop one to use alone or stack with the 8 stop. One of my big concerns was the possibility of light leaks with squares. Also I could not see any reason I need a square for this type of filter (as opposed to grads). 77mm is the largest lens I ever expect to use and step down rings are cheap.   

My initial, very subjective test of the filter revealed no immediately noticeable color cast but some loss of contrast. I also found that my 50D will not meter accurately through it. Overall, I am eager to give it a more through shake down soon.