Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Cameras, Lenses and Shooting gear => Topic started by: Justan on May 01, 2012, 02:36:12 pm
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There was “A first look” article in the Washington Post about the D3200 that published on 4-19. http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/technology/nikon-d3200-a-first-look/2012/04/19/gIQAvUGqST_story.html
There has been a lot of information about the D800 series recently, yet the 24 MP D3200 looks like a notably elevated “entry level” DSLR for a small fraction of the price of the mighty D800. In fact the D3200 it appears both very capable and extremely affordable.
I've called a few stores and these aren't in stock just yet.....perhaps by plan....
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Two years ago -- maybe one year ago -- this camera would be getting the attention that the D800 is getting now. I'd want to see some tests of the sensor before I bought it, but I expect it'll be very good. And the price is amazing.
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I'm interested in it as a companion for my 300mm f4. The cropped sensor giving an effective 35mm equivalent image to a 450mm telephoto, makes it a better choice for many shots than my D700, and with extra pixels for further cropping if needed. Time maybe to sell on my old D200 back-up body
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My partner is planning to buy one. She can’t hardly go wrong with this choice. Only problem is that we haven’t found a vendor that has stock yet. Not surprising given that Nikon would be essentially shooting itself in the corporate digits to offer the mighty d800 but then, at nearly the same time, to offer about 75% of the megapixels in the d3200 for about 1/5 the cost of the D800.
At this rate, in another year or two it’s logical that the capabilities of the D800 will be packaged for around $600. And, no doubt the SOTA DSLR will be closer to 100 MP.
Moore's law in action.
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This looks like a camera I could buy to keep in the Land Rover. It shares the same battery with the P7000 so I don't have to buy more batteries. So far it doesn't appear to be available without the kit lens.
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Only problem is that we haven’t found a vendor that has stock yet
This camera was scheduled to begin shipping this week, that's why there is not stock. I haven't received an update as to this being delayed so they should start showing up any day now.
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I've heard this camera does not use the 24MP APS-c Exmor. Does anyone know anything about the source and/or architecture of this sensor?
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Two things slow me down about the D3200...
1. No auto bracketing. That's a show-stopper for me.
2. This sample photograph (http://www.flickr.com/photos/nikonfrance/7092819923/sizes/o/in/set-72157629851394125/). While this shot was probably pulled up a few stops out of the murk, it does not bode well for noise performance. But admittedly there are quite a few other much nicer full sized shots on the same site.
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This looks like a camera I could buy to keep in the Land Rover. It shares the same battery with the P7000 so I don't have to buy more batteries. So far it doesn't appear to be available without the kit lens.
If it could share the battery with the Land Rover...
Just thinkin'
Rob C
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I'm interested in it as a companion for my 300mm f4. The cropped sensor giving an effective 35mm equivalent image to a 450mm telephoto, makes it a better choice for many shots than my D700, and with extra pixels for further cropping if needed. Time maybe to sell on my old D200 back-up body
You're convinced you can find a buyer at a worthwhile price?
I tried to get a price for mine last year - the best I was offered was, if memory serves, around 300 quid for a camera that cost me about one-and-a-half grand euros. Best keep it as a reserve reserve!
Rob C
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If it could share the battery with the Land Rover...
Just thinkin'
Rob C
My Rover is new enough that are no Lucas parts. Lucas, Prince of Darkness. A three position switch from Lucas is Off, Dim, and Flicker. :D
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Two years ago -- maybe one year ago -- this camera would be getting the attention that the D800 is getting now. I'd want to see some tests of the sensor before I bought it, but I expect it'll be very good. And the price is amazing.
John, if the sensor in the D3200 is the same as the one in the NEX-7, as many of us suspect, have no fears, it is quite an improvement. I continue to be amazed at the shadow detail which can be pulled from a RAW file. I will admit to using Leica glass, but I use what I have :).
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John, if the sensor in the D3200 is the same as the one in the NEX-7, as many of us suspect, have no fears, it is quite an improvement. I continue to be amazed at the shadow detail which can be pulled from a RAW file. I will admit to using Leica glass, but I use what I have :).
Some people are saying that it's not a Sony sensor too. Does anyone have any real information?
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I'm seriously considering selling my d300 and replacing it with the d3200 or d5100. If I wait too long my d300 will only be worth a couple hundred dollars. I'd really be curious to see how this matches up with the d800. As a landscape person, I don't need auto focus or high iso (although MLU I would welcome). The new rule may be don't ever pay over $1000 for a camera body unless you absolutely have too. I'd go with a d800 if I was convinced that I would find a significant improvement in my 14x21 inch prints but I'm not so sure I would find enough of an improvement to sell my dx lenses. And this camera will be about half the price of a sony nx7.
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My guess is that the sensor of the D3200 will spread to higher spec Nikon DX bodies later this year; call them D5xxx and D7xxx class. So those who want auto-bracketing, MLU, a higher frame rate, a more rugged body, or such might benefit from waiting a bit.
P. S. since Nikon (like Olympus) does not do all the design and fabrication of its sensors in-house, it (like Olympus) is often rather coy about the origins of its sensors, and the internet fills that information vacuum with all kinds of wild speculation, much of it flattered by the name "rumor". Since Nikon (again like Olympus) does do a significant amount of R&D on sensor technologies, as shown by patent searches, it could well be that the sensors used are variants of the core designs from Sony (respectively, Panasonic), but clues like the consistent closeness on pixel counts, pixel sizes and most performance measures suggests at least a close relationship to sensors from Sony (resp. Panasonic).
So why worry about the sensors' origins? The performance measures are both far more important and easier to learn.
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This camera was scheduled to begin shipping this week, that's why there is not stock. I haven't received an update as to this being delayed so they should start showing up any day now.
Some reports i read said they were going to ship around mid April but no one had stock.
No matter, we found one last night at the local Best Buy. The camera guy said the store received 4 of them Wednesday and all but the display were gone the same day.
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I've heard this camera does not use the 24MP APS-c Exmor. Does anyone know anything about the source and/or architecture of this sensor?
Is there any way to tell from the docs that came with the camera?
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So why worry about the sensors' origins? The performance measures are both far more important and easier to learn.
I'm interested in identifying new sensor designs and architecture. When the D3x came out, it was my first introduction to the Exmor. It did some surprising new things, and was a worthy object of study in itself it turned out.
I see with the Nikon 1 sensor, Nikon has adopted a new design, and I was wondering how much of that might get carried into the DSLR line.
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I just received one for testing today. Battery charging.
Michael
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So why worry about the sensors' origins? The performance measures are both far more important and easier to learn.
I'm interested in identifying new sensor designs and architecture. ...
I confess: I am also curious about such things, as shown by my speculations on the subject. The key words in my comment were "why worry". Or more to the point: let us have fun with this but not get into a heated debate like the recurring ones on sensor origins at a certain other website.
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Sensor
D3200 24.2MP SENSOR
Now a days, mega pixels are often disregarded. We nearly have done a 180 and forgotten the importance of pixels. Sure many of us feel that 12MP is plenty, and this is true for some. However, detail is still important. Further, the ability to crop an image, and still retain a decent amount of resolution, is quite useful. The D3200 offers an extraordinary 24MP sensor. Not more than one year ago, the $8000 D3X was the only Nikon camera that offered the equivalent resolution. Now the D3200 provides this on a DX sensor at less than a tenth of the cost! Sure the D3X had great dynamic range, but the D3200 still retains an impressive dynamic range.
The sensor measures 23.2 x 15.4 mm. It is a CMOS sensor with a built in sensor cleaning feature. It has a extensive ISO range from 100 – 6400. Sony developed the D3200’s sensor, and it is the same fundamental design as the Sony NEX-7 sensor, but with Nikon’s own requirements imposed! Nikon is notorious for working with Sony sensors, and does a great job at improving their performance beyond what Sony can.
from: http://www.btobey.com/nikon/d3200-review.php
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Got to admit, this is tempting me as a back up body - I had planned to go with the D7000 but funds are looking tight so the 3200 may get it (unless I take the used route as I am with most/all the glass for the current rig).
Ideally I would get a second D800 to go with the E which has just landed at the dealer (but which I am being forced to wait another 10 days for!) but I really can't run to such extravagances at the moment!
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and it is the same fundamental design as the Sony NEX-7 sensor, but with Nikon’s own requirements imposed! Nikon is notorious for working with Sony sensors, and does a great job at improving their performance beyond what Sony can. [/i]
He doesn't quote his source ... which makes me believe he doesn't have one so he's just speculating. While I agree Nikon seems to get more out of a Sony sensor than Sony, this could easily be explained by better processors in their camera and a better understanding of raw data.
Raw data isn't the pure data from the sensor, and what's done to that data before it reaches the raw state could easily be the reason Nikon gets more out of the sensors.
I'm not saying Nikon isn't involved in the design of the sensor (because I don't know and I've never seen any official word on it), but Sony sensor expertise is what has enabled Nikon to move to the front of the class. Whether Nikon has contributed or is just benefiting I'm not sure. Certainly the relationship seems to be beneficial to both companies ... something Canon should pay attention to.
Our first d3200 just arrived. Hope to fire it up against a NEX 7 today. Looks like a great camera for the price.
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So, what do you think, Wayne?
How does it compare with NEX-7?
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I have been shooting a Nikon 3200 for three weeks now with three Nikkor lenses. AF-S 70-200mm 1:2.8 VR II, AF-S Micro 105mm 1:2.8, and a AF-S 16-35mm 1:4.
I sold a D7000 in February. The D3200 is to use until my D800e gets here in two weeks. I'll take the D3200 over the D7000 any day because of the price and weight. There is a gain in resolution, and no down side in capabilities for me. When the D800e gets here, thanks to Amazons amazing customer service I know when, I will use the D3200 without reservations. The images I am getting are as good or better than the D7000.
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When companies bring out same-size sensors with an increased pixel count, one hopes that there has been some technological improvement so that the smaller pixel has equal or similar performance to the larger pixel of the previous generation, so that there is no loss in quality in any respect when the larger file is downsampled for comparison purposes.
To have the benefits of increased resolution with no downside such as increased noise, is a very worthwhile improvement.
It so happens that DXOMark have now released their test results for the D3200. Comparing those results with the D7000, it seems that the D3200 is a backward step regarding DR.
SNR at 18%, Tonal Range and Color Sensitivity are all on a par with the D7000, but DR at base ISO is almost 2/3rds of a stop worse, at equal print size, and at the pixel level almost one stop worse. (The precise figures are 0.65EV and 0.93EV worse).
This is not a big deal because the D7000 has such stellar DR, and the advantages of the lighter weight, lower cost and higher resolution, compared with the D7000, will still make the D3200 an attractive buy for many. The D3200 still has significantly better DR than the Canon 5D3, although worse SNR at 18%, as one would expect. Larger sensors usually have a noise advantage in the midtones.
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I'm not saying Nikon isn't involved in the design of the sensor (because I don't know and I've never seen any official word on it), but Sony sensor expertise is what has enabled Nikon to move to the front of the class. Whether Nikon has contributed or is just benefiting I'm not sure.
At least Nikon did clearly contribute by funding 90% of development cost and manufacturing cost by being by very far the largest seller of Sony APS sensors.
We need to understand here that Sony's APS camera volume is not high enough to justify the investements made by Sony Semi-Conductors (a different company than Sony Imaging).
So there would probably be no Exmor technology and no Exmor sensors available for sales if Nikon had not been there to commit to sell in huge numbers cameras using them.
A technology like Exmor is not a commodity. It can of course not be looked at in total isolation from the other fundamental research done at Sony semi-conductor, but it is specific enough that billions of dollars of investements were probably required. You just don't do that without somebody signing the check in advance, and tha somebody is Nikon.
What we do not now is the details of the agreement between the 2 companies in terms of IP ownership.
Cheers,
Bernard
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Sorry, but after viewing 3 reviews (Tech-Radar, CameraLabs, DPReview), it appears that in all cases (Raw and Jpeg, Low and High ISO) Green is really unnatural and yellowish, just like first Nikon 10 years ago.
Very sad because other parameters are good.
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When you look at the CameraLab picture comparison between NEX7, T2i, and D3200, there is very little difference in the apparent resolution.
Compared with the other two cameras, I didn't find that D3200's green looked more yellowish.
When I compared D3200 24MP sample images to Canon's T2i 18MP using dpreview's Studio Scene comparison tool, the T2i images (raw and JPG) actually looked more contrasty and sharper.
One would presume that all sample images were shot using the kit lenses. It would be interesting to see how both sensors perform with a 50mm prime lens.
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Dredging up this topic from page three or four. I'm interested if anyone has any experience with it yet? I'm still thinking of getting one to keep under the seat in the truck or as more of a full-time back-up body. Michael? Anyone?
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I have had one for about a month. I had a D7000 before the D3200. I sold it when the D800e was announced. The D3200 is great camera. I prefer it to the D7000 because it is so light and small. I will use it when I want a small light body or the 1.5 magnification factor instead of using a TC 1.7e on my D800e. My wife uses it all the time. It works for me when my D800e is too much camera.
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Dpreview just published Full review of D3200.
The reviewer compares it mainly with the previous D3100 model, but in their Studio comparison, you can substitute D3100 with D5100 (or another model), and compare the IQ between the two cameras. They acknowledge, and it has been also my experience, that on pixel level, D3200's output is slightly soft. I found D5100's output sharper.
They awarded to D3200 total score of only 73%, as compared with 76% for D5100 and 79% for NEX-5N.
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DXOMark has a significantly different story to tell. The D3200 outscores the D7000, D5100, and D3100. The science is in favor of the D3200 in resolution. I find my D3200 and D800E to be just as DXOMark reports them to be.
Have a great day.
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It sounds very good if you are going to go with new lenses.
Won't work well with AI or AIS lenses.
Not sure about Mirror lock up cabilities.
This won't concern many but I have my older lenses that are good performers and I still use them. Manual focus and a mirror that stays locked up while I trip the shutter with a cable release is one thing I need.
We'll see how the expected D600 fares.
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I don't think D3200 offers a mirror lock up. With that high pixel density it would help considerably.
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I wish I had gone this route, rather than spending too much time and money with a SONY NEX5 system.
DaveL
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It sounds very good if you are going to go with new lenses.
Won't work well with AI or AIS lenses.
Not sure about Mirror lock up cabilities.
This won't concern many but I have my older lenses that are good performers and I still use them. Manual focus and a mirror that stays locked up while I trip the shutter with a cable release is one thing I need.
We'll see how the expected D600 fares.
Personally I'd be a little worried as to how any lens fares on it, pretty much all the lenses Photozone tested on the NEX 7 had issues, espeically with boarder sharpness.
To me it seems like ASPC may have hit its resolution ceiling for landscape work at around 16-18 MP just as FF seems to have with the D800.