Luminous Landscape Forum

Site & Board Matters => About This Site => Topic started by: Tony Jay on April 15, 2012, 12:21:30 am

Title: "Master of Light"
Post by: Tony Jay on April 15, 2012, 12:21:30 am
Hi Michael

Just a thought occuring to me today.
I have been a member of the forum for some months - currently a full member.
At the current rate of my posting it won't be too long before I become a senior member.
However in real terms - given the weight of expertise and experience mustered by the various senior members of the site - it may actually not mean that much, apart from reflecting an accumulated number of posts.

Nonetheless many of the senior members of the forum have decades of experience and expertise (and some of other seniority as well).
Would it be feasible to give at least some of these senior members recognition apart from merely the number posts accumulated that reflects their real ability in the world of photography. I know some individuals are iconic and we know who they are (no cryptic forum names) but some provide truly valuable information without it necessarily being that obvious that they are masters of their craft.

My thought was to give them a title such as "Master of Light" rather than just merely senior member so as give their contributions on the forum added weight.

You and your team could periodically, based on the content of contributions to the forum, elect members as "Masters of Light" or some other distinguishing title.

Obviously this is an initial proposal for consideration rather than a fully polished one.

Kind Regards

Tony Jay
Title: Re: "Master of Light"
Post by: Tony Jay on April 15, 2012, 04:06:50 pm
Well, so much for that idea then.
Title: Re: "Master of Light"
Post by: Eric Myrvaagnes on April 15, 2012, 05:19:35 pm
Well, so much for that idea then.
Give it more than one day before you give up.
Title: Re: "Master of Light"
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on April 15, 2012, 05:22:48 pm
The previous forum software used to have stars next to member names, and people would vote that way. Obviously, any open voting system is open to rigging as well (like multiple voting, phantom voting, etc.). A juried system would make more sense, but then again, there would be no end of complaints of favoritism, unfairness, etc. Not to mention the amount of time it would take for the moderators.  

I am not saying what you are suggesting wouldn't make sense, just that it is rather impractical. As in many other areas of life, it takes a bit of getting to know people, before you could trust their judgment.
Title: Re: "Master of Light"
Post by: Tony Jay on April 15, 2012, 10:54:24 pm
Thank you for the input.

My thought was to have a small committee chosen by Michael to make choices on a periodic basis.
IMHO the picks would need to to be respected by the LuLa community.
Also someone not picked on one occassion could easily be considered on a subsequent occassion.

Although, I think, we all feel part of the LuLa community ultimately this website is owned by Michael and others and so it would be their choice to run with the idea and if they did how to make the picks.
So, it is a suggestion and I would respect the decision if it were ultimately to be found impractical.

Kind Regards

Tony Jay

Title: Re: "Master of Light"
Post by: Sareesh Sudhakaran on April 15, 2012, 11:59:27 pm
When I started visiting forums five years ago I felt the same too. What I've learnt however, is that it doesn't really matter if your query is answered by Ansel Adams or John Doe, as long as the answer is pertinent to your query. Sure, you would be more likely to sit up and notice a post made by the former, but the beauty of this format is that you have the option of reading all sides to a story. Sometimes even the 'dumb' responses can trigger an idea. I am mostly grateful that someone would spend the time and energy to actually reply to one of my posts, even if was just to attack me.

When I first joined Lula, I did so because of the authors' (The two that stood out are Michael and Alain) 'honesty of purpose' (my term, for lack of a better expression).

One other forum I would like to mention is the one run by Roger Deakins, the brilliant cinematographer. He takes pains to answer questions himself, and it is encouraging to know that he is human too! I applaud Michael's efforts to keep this website running, even though I sometimes feel this forum is the most vicious forum I've seen as far as the subject of photography is concerned. I haven't been able to figure out why, yet. Hopefully I'll be able to stick around long enough to get inspired and contribute something useful to it one day.
Title: Re: "Master of Light"
Post by: Tony Jay on April 16, 2012, 12:03:48 am
Interesting point Sareesh.

Regards

Tony Jay
Title: Re: "Master of Light"
Post by: kaelaria on April 16, 2012, 12:22:35 am
Good grief, put down the keyboard, make some friends and go outside to shoot some more LOL
Title: Re: "Master of Light"
Post by: Tony Jay on April 16, 2012, 03:21:57 am
Sadly I don't get the chance to shoot as much as I would like.

I understand the sentiment though.

Tony Jay
Title: Re: "Master of Light"
Post by: stamper on April 16, 2012, 03:52:04 am
Quote

My thought was to give them a title such as "Master of Light" rather than just merely senior member so as give their contributions on the forum added weight.

Unquote

This smacks of elitism imo. Every answer should be judged on it's merits respective from who it comes from. I suspect some of the "experts" just quote others without really understanding what is being stated. Even Michael doesn't get it right all of the time. Just look at the videos with him and Jeff "sparring" with each other.
Title: Re: "Master of Light"
Post by: Rob C on April 16, 2012, 04:00:00 am
Has no-one considered that the moment some grading system is introduced, a further level of anxiety or bitterness is almost guaranteed to follow?

Here we have one or two people who can't spell, have poor grammar and are also capable of wiping the floor with most photographers whom I know. How would they be rated? Those for whom English is not their native language - how would they fare? I also see 'names' whose pictures are forever a repeat of the same shot, who have one standard lighting formula and are about as creative as my late Alsabrador. No, she was a creative big bitch, and I loved her.

Leave well enough alone; this place works!

Rob C
Title: Re: "Master of Light"
Post by: Tony Jay on April 16, 2012, 05:13:10 am
Has no-one considered that the moment some grading system is introduced, a further level of anxiety or bitterness is almost guaranteed to follow?

There is a grading system Rob - you are a senior member and I am a full member.

With respect to the issue of knowledge and ability that is what it is about - not the standard of their grammer and spelling (in English or in any other language.

Thank you for your thoughts.

Tony Jay
Title: Re: "Master of Light"
Post by: stamper on April 16, 2012, 05:21:02 am
There is a grading system Rob - you are a senior member and I am a full member.

In reality....meaningless.
Title: Re: "Master of Light"
Post by: Tony Jay on April 16, 2012, 05:25:05 am
In reality....meaningless.

Precisely the point of my original post - and why I made the proposal that I did.

Regards

Tony Jay
Title: Re: "Master of Light"
Post by: Christoph C. Feldhaim on April 16, 2012, 05:27:36 am
I don't see any reason to change anything.
With the course of time you find out naturally whom to listen to in which matter and whom not, who's trolling and who's not.
If I see someone intellectualizing a lot and I have a look at his/her images and see it is trash I know how to judge.
If I see someone is able to produce good stuff the word counts different for me.
But it would maybe be good if an online representation, be it a flickr or picasa account or a personal website would be mandatory.
Not that I really want to ask for that - I'm against any form of authoritarianism (does this word exist?) - but words on a photography forum without providing a link to the images? Not really, hmm?
So you find your way around.
Title: Re: "Master of Light"
Post by: Tony Jay on April 16, 2012, 05:51:06 am
Christoph you do make some good points.

However, some of the individuals whose opinions on a lot of issues I really trust never post images on any of the forums.
They don't even necessarily have a link to a website even though using Google it isn't hard to find.

It is true if one has some knowledge to begin with, and given time, one can work out whether someone is talking rubbish or not, particularly in ones early days on the forum it might be helpful.
I acknowledge that no system that "governs" an internet forum can be perfect - it is very much a "buyer beware" sort of situation.

The various contributions to this thread have been really interesting - highly intelligent members of a community voicing considered opinions.
I am interested in what Michael thinks - clearly if his opinion is that this is impractical nothing will come of it.
Overall I do think there may be some merit to my proposal.

Regards

Tony Jay
Title: Re: "Master of Light"
Post by: Rob C on April 16, 2012, 09:21:30 am
Tony, I can't for the life of me see what you are hoping to gain from this grading idea. Picture quality? And who is without sin? Stars on the shoulder or chest? Makes it sound like a camera club, God forbid.

The current grading, which is hardly grading at all, is but a count of posts and implies no status beyond a lot of empty time. Would you be happier without any of it on show?

As for taking or not taking equipment advice, that's much the same as seeking critique which I avoid and discourage as detrimental to individual vision and/or growth, and there is no doubt in my mind that making one's own mistakes is the way to fly, as is respecting and trusting one's gut. It certainly was with film and I see little reason to think otherwise with digital. I'm sure I'm missing something in your reasoning, but not sure what.

Rob C
Title: Re: "Master of Light"
Post by: sdwilsonsct on April 16, 2012, 02:43:09 pm
If I see someone is able to produce good stuff the word counts different for me.

This sounds sensible to me.
Scott
Title: Re: "Master of Light"
Post by: framah on April 16, 2012, 03:51:32 pm
Hmmm... now  that Thomas Kinkade is dead, I guess we DO need a new Master!!! ::)



Title: Re: "Master of Light"
Post by: theguywitha645d on April 17, 2012, 12:25:40 am
...Even Michael doesn't get it right all of the time. Just look at the videos with him and Jeff "sparring" with each other...

Maybe Jeff was wrong...
Title: Re: "Master of Light"
Post by: jeremyrh on April 17, 2012, 03:08:49 am
Maybe Jeff was wrong...
NOW you're in for some trouble !!  ;D
Title: Re: "Master of Light"
Post by: theguywitha645d on April 17, 2012, 10:02:33 am
Could I be the "Ruler or Radiance"? Or even the "Lord of Illumination"?
Title: Re: "Master of Light"
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on April 17, 2012, 11:40:52 am
You may have the honor of addressing me as The Luminous Leader!

P.S. The top rank, The Great Luminous Leader , TGLL, or TiGer LuLe, is reserved, of course for MR
Title: Re: "Master of Light"
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on April 17, 2012, 11:55:16 am
 ;D
Title: Re: "Master of Light"
Post by: John R Smith on April 18, 2012, 04:22:18 am
I think that exchange just about sums up why this suggestion from Tony is an idea which is doomed to failure.

Nice one, Slobodan  ;)

John
Title: Re: "Master of Light"
Post by: Tony Jay on April 18, 2012, 05:46:10 am
It was just an idea...

Regards

Tony Jay
Title: Re: "Master of Light"
Post by: Rob C on April 18, 2012, 06:22:34 am
It was just an idea...

Regards

Tony Jay



You're lucky most of mine get strangled at birth!

;-)

Rob C
Title: Re: "Master of Light"
Post by: Tony Jay on April 18, 2012, 07:27:37 am
It was worth putting the thought out there...

Sometimes reasonable ideas fail and sometimes the most counterintuitive ideas pass muster.
I will confess to being a "beginner" in the forum world, LuLu being the first, and so far only, forum to which I contribute.
I don't mind bouncing ideas off individuals here because, by and large, the LuLa community consists of individuals with massive experience and expertise in the art and science that comprises photography and fine art printing.
The reason I was attracted to LuLa was to learn - occasionally I can contribute, but much more frequently I learn.

Regards

Tony Jay
Title: Re: "Master of Light"
Post by: Rob C on April 18, 2012, 09:31:29 am
Tony

I was once quite keen on the BJP site (British Journal of Photography) where I met several people with whom I still correspond, years later. The problem there was that the folks running it didn't really seem to spend any time policing it. I was less than enthusiastic about some of the foul-mouthed people that posted there, and nothing was done to make them polite and not abusive, and I mean truly abusive. In the end, I gave up and a fresh site was created by some of us old BJP members. Problem there, really, I think was one of critical mass and diversity. I think that the chat/forum part of the BJP site has now been closed down...

LuLa has one great advantage, as far as I can make out, and that's that it is run by people who know practical photography inside out. Also, it allows threads to develop without too much interference, and they are also allowed to expand beyond the basic premise of their foundation, often leading to humour, more unexpected information and the sense of a living organism.

I've looked at a few other places, but though they also seem to have some good people, there's just something here that's different in a manner that appeals to me. So, unless I get hoofed out, I hope to stay.

Rob C
Title: Re: "Master of Light"
Post by: Eric Myrvaagnes on April 18, 2012, 09:59:29 am
Tony,

At least the responses you got were friendly and somewhat humorous, which is much nicer, I think, than the "slash and burn" responses some folks get in other threads.

Eric ("Demon of the Dark")
Title: Re: "Master of Light"
Post by: Tony Jay on April 18, 2012, 07:57:10 pm
Eric and Rob

Thank you for the encouragement.

Luckily, while not completely bulletproof, I have not felt as though I have been attacked or anything.
I certainly will not be discouraged from contributing to the forum as and when I feel motivated.

Regards

Tony Jay
Title: Re: "Master of Light"
Post by: Schewe on April 19, 2012, 12:24:09 am
Maybe Jeff was wrong...

You're kidding right?

Mike is a real good shooter (better than I am–although I get some odd stuff he doesn't get) but I know this "tech" stuff a bit better than Mike does (although he knows how to get his images to look the way he wants them to, which, in the grand scheme is all that matters to him).
Title: Re: "Master of Light"
Post by: Tony Jay on April 19, 2012, 04:48:31 am
Well actually we really like the two of you together - makes the witches cauldron bubble just right!

Regards

Tony Jay
Title: Re: "Master of Light"
Post by: Keith Reeder on April 22, 2012, 10:28:45 am
"Master Of Light" tends (to my way of thinking) to be suggestive of certain genres more than others anyway.

I'm primarily a bird 'tog with a bit of sport chucked in for good measure, and although I'd like to think I get by pretty nicely in my bird photography, and I'm quite good at making the best use of the conditions I'm shooting in, I'm absolutely at the mercy of the moods of my subject matter and the weather, neither of which I have any control (and certainly no mastery) over.


Title: Re: "Master of Light"
Post by: Rob C on April 22, 2012, 10:38:34 am
"Master Of Light" tends (to my way of thinking) to be suggestive of certain genres more than others anyway.

I'm primarily a bird 'tog with a bit of sport chucked in for good measure, and although I'd like to think I get by pretty nicely in my bird photography, and I'm quite good at making the best use of the conditions I'm shooting in, I'm absolutely at the mercy of the moods of my subject matter and the weather, neither of which I have any control (and certainly no mastery) over.



Between the two of us, I think you speak for every man Jack of us! We might just like to think otherwise, but I believe you've pegged it. The secret is to claim the happy accident as our own!

;-)

Rob C
Title: Re: "Master of Light"
Post by: Keith Reeder on April 22, 2012, 12:09:04 pm
I'd like to think there's occasionally a grain of truth in my ramblings!

;)

Thing is, if I was a landscape 'tog, I'd be able to go out when the weather and the light were right for the image I had in mind (a landscape isn't likely to be there one day and gone the next): when I'm birding, I'm out when the birds are there (which is frequently during poor weather or in badly lit environments), and the sport photography happens whenever the sport happens.

Likewise if I lived in a studio, I'd get to choose the light I was working with.

Point being that I still reckon that "Master Of Light" is simply not an appropriate tag for some genres of photography.

"Some pretty fast reflexes you've got there" would suit a lot of what I do(!); "you must be good at getting close to birds" would work too!

Actually I'd quite like "Master Of Birdcraft" (even though I'm not that either!)

;)
Title: Re: "Master of Light"
Post by: Eric Myrvaagnes on April 22, 2012, 06:25:24 pm
How about "Master of My Own Personal Genre?"
Title: Re: "Master of Light"
Post by: Keith Reeder on April 22, 2012, 06:59:57 pm
Dunno - seriously, the whole "Master Of..." thing seems a bit presumptuous and self-opinionated to me anyway.
Title: Re: "Master of Light"
Post by: Eric Myrvaagnes on April 22, 2012, 08:30:59 pm
Then let me replace my suggestion with this one: "Supreme Egotistical Master of Whatever I Think I'm Good At."   ;)
Title: Re: "Master of Light"
Post by: jeremyrh on May 05, 2012, 01:41:15 pm
Dunno - seriously, the whole "Master Of..." thing seems a bit presumptuous and self-opinionated to me anyway.
Maybe, but at least it's restricted to "Light". "Master of the Entire Spectrum of Electromagnetic Radiation" would be slightly presumptuous.
Title: Re: "Master of Light"
Post by: AFairley on May 07, 2012, 09:00:25 pm
I dunno, I aspire to more like "Perpetual Neophyte."  Not so much in the technical sense, but in having the same feeling of wonder I had watching the image swim into view on the first print I ever developed in the red light of the darkroom.
Title: Re: "Master of Light"
Post by: Rob C on May 08, 2012, 03:17:46 pm
Funny that, about red lights in darkrooms: unless you were doing stacks of line film it makes no sense at all. It used to be much brighter yellowish/green things: OB or, a bit later, O-something else I can't remember. At the right distance, you fogged nothing, even in a pro darkroom where there were several of those lights, one above each work station, with batch-processing going on which meant paper exposed to several safelights for far longer than the norm.

Oh well, red sounds romantic, or why else would more or less all movie renditions of darkroom prints coming up be in glorious, difficult red? Guess not many Hollwood folks heard of the Purkinje Shift connected with red light.

Rob C
Title: Re: "Master of Light"
Post by: AFairley on May 08, 2012, 03:38:00 pm
Yeah, this was then British East Africa circa 1963 so it was sort of old school.  Amber safelights were a revelation when I go back to the States.