Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Motion & Video => Topic started by: smthopr on April 11, 2012, 03:41:05 pm
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http://www.brucealangreene.com/8datestheater.html (http://www.brucealangreene.com/8datestheater.html)
I just added a sampler from a Feature film I photographed. I would really appreciate any feedback regarding the clip.
Comments regarding: Does it play on your device? Which browser? Hardware?
Too light? Too dark?
Any other comments regarding choice of material etc are also welcome.
The movie was shot with the RedOneMX camera and graded in Iradas (now Adobe) Speedgrade software.
I would also be happy to answer any questions if anyone has any :D
Thanks so much!
-bruce
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This is cheating!
You are up against a few guys learning their way around the step from stills to motion
Just looks like a movie in every way - a well shot one - but maybe a little too feelgood for my personal taste
Plays perfectly - a little bright maybe - the opening shot is a little tungsten
Super fuss - at 21 the ECU of the bloke appears to cross the line with his eyes again his eyeline is wierd in the car shot
Im not sure about the tune
Very nice major project - and I still love that girl - she was in Prisoners Wives here in the UK which was a light but fun watch..
SamMM
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Thanks for the comments Sam.
I didn't mean to cheat or show off...too much :)
I just thought that on this this forum people use a variety of platforms and some have much more technical computer skills than I and just might have good suggestions as to why a display problem might happen.
About the story, it's a romantic comedy chick flick, and I just light and set the camera to match the demands of the script, but I don't write them...
Interesting that you mention that it might be a little bit light. There are density and gamma changes that happen from the conversion from 444 rgb to prosres and from there to h.264. It looks a little bit flat and desaturated on my 2008 MacBook, but a bit better on my iPad1. My calibrated photo monitor is a CRT, and it's not the best to judge movies as most are watching on punchier LCD screens these days. I think that I may darken the mid tones and increase the saturation for the next go round. Unfortunately I can't accurately preview h.264 until it's rendered as there's always some kind of gamma and color shift involved in the process.
And lastly, the tune is in the movie :):):)
Thanks again Sam for the comments. The movie is probably much smaller in scale than you imagine, but much bigger than a few guys and a DSLR.
-Bruce
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Honestly Im not one of those masters of colour - other people here are way better
I am convinced that a render out for a CRT would be different for a LCD render
As for a shift into H264 - Im sure there is a technical solution - I juse go a little heavy in Apple Colour, Im trying to just account for the shift like the days of making prints on a printer not calibrated to the screen - every printer
You can elways export a 10 second chunk - again thats the same as a test strip print when using a printer
All my workflow is based on a 1990s black and white dark room - make a test..
Ive mainly given up on that screen accuracy stuff now - if it looks cool on my Imac - it will look cool on a 'client clients wifes' imac
and thats what matters :)
S
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Bruce,
On Windows there is no sound, whatever the browser used. You need to erase the "volume" parameter in the html code where you embeded the QT. Simply get rid-of it, it's useless and creates a conflict. (it's in 2 locations, line 22 and 26)
On Mac as always the gamma is slightly bright as mentionned Morgan, on windows it is perfect.
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Thanks Fred for the feedback.
At your suggestion, I think I've done this correctly, I removed the volume setting from the source code. Could you please let me know if you get sound now?
Thanks so much. Really appreciated.
I've also shortened the movie and punched up the color a tiny bit. Please let me know if the color and gamma still look ok.
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Weired.
I've opened it again (the link you provided in the OP) and the sound isn't still working, the source code shows that the volume settings haven't been removed. I emptied caché and
I'm still seeing this sound setting in the QT wrapper in every brower.
:o
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Fred,
I opened the new page and checked the source code and the volume settings "volume = 600" were removed. Perhaps I removed the wrong settings?
Would it be possible to email me the source code page with the offending items highlighted? This is not really my area of expertise. And thanks so much for bringing this to my attention!
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http://www.brucealangreene.com/8datestheater.html
Am I watching the right URL ?
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here is a screenshot
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Fred,
It's the right URL, but maybe you're loading the previous version from the browser cache?
If youre looking at the new version it will have a running time of 3:51. The old page runs 5:19.
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Ok,
Bruce, we indeed have a movie theme, kind of "the ghost code".
It's indeed the 3:51 version, I emptied the caché. The conflictive code is still there, no sound in any browser (tried them all).
We are in paranormal UFO activity energy.
I have no clue of what could have happened. Tomorrow I'll check in another studio on other units and report. This is more weired than the Twilight Zone.
(Have you manually erased the HTML code? The source code windows don't lie. It's there.)
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Hi Fred,
I don't see it in the source code I viewed in Safari, but here it is:
<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">
<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html;charset=iso-8859-1">
<meta name="generator" content="Adobe GoLive">
<title>8 First Dates sampler</title>
</head>
<body bgcolor="#ffffff">
<table width="1920" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" bgcolor="#222222" background="original%20art%20folder/generic%20bg%204.png" cool gridx="16" gridy="16" height="1280" showgridx showgridy>
<tr height="112">
<td width="1919" height="112" colspan="7"><spacer type="block" width="1919" height="112"></td>
<td width="1" height="112"><spacer type="block" width="1" height="112"></td>
</tr>
<tr height="368">
<td width="32" height="368"><spacer type="block" width="32" height="368"></td>
<td width="1887" height="368" colspan="6" valign="top" align="left" xpos="32"><object classid="clsid:02BF25D5-8C17-4B23-BC80-D3488ABDDC6B" codebase="http://www.apple.com/qtactivex/qtplugin.cab" height="359" width="772">
<param name="scale" value="1">
<param name="bgcolor" value="#696969">
<param name="src" value="original%20art%20folder/8fd_4min760x330.mov">
<param name="autoplay" value="true">
<param name="controller" value="true">
<embed height="359" pluginspage="http://www.apple.com/quicktime/download/" src="original%20art%20folder/8fd_4min760x330.mov" type="video/quicktime" width="772" controller="true" autoplay="true" bgcolor="#696969" scale="1">
</object></td>
<td width="1" height="368"><spacer type="block" width="1" height="368"></td>
</tr>
<tr height="106">
<td width="48" height="106" colspan="2"><spacer type="block" width="48" height="106"></td>
<td content csheight="61" width="752" height="106" colspan="4" valign="top" xpos="48"><font size="+1" color="#e8e8e8">Sampler from the Russian romantic comedy "8 First Dates" </font>
<p><font size="+1" color="#e8e8e8">Directed by: David Dodson, Sasha Malarevsky</font></p>
</td>
<td width="1119" height="106"><spacer type="block" width="1119" height="106"></td>
<td width="1" height="106"><spacer type="block" width="1" height="106"></td>
</tr>
<tr height="44">
<td width="50" height="44" colspan="3"><spacer type="block" width="50" height="44"></td>
<td content csheight="33" width="749" height="44" colspan="2" valign="top" xpos="50"><font size="+1" color="#e8e8e8"><a href="http://vimeo.com/32825688">can't view the quicktime? see it on Vimeo, password "bruce"</a></font></td>
<td width="1120" height="44" colspan="2"><spacer type="block" width="1120" height="44"></td>
<td width="1" height="44"><spacer type="block" width="1" height="44"></td>
</tr>
<tr height="649">
<td width="48" height="649" colspan="2"><spacer type="block" width="48" height="649"></td>
<td content csheight="21" width="288" height="649" colspan="2" valign="top" xpos="48"><font face="Helvetica, Geneva, Arial, SunSans-Regular, sans-serif"><font size="4" color="#474747"><u><a href="index.html"><strong><em>return to home page</em></strong></a></u></font></font></td>
<td width="1583" height="649" colspan="3"><spacer type="block" width="1583" height="649"></td>
<td width="1" height="649"><spacer type="block" width="1" height="649"></td>
</tr>
<tr height="1" cntrlrow>
<td width="32" height="1"><spacer type="block" width="32" height="1"></td>
<td width="16" height="1"><spacer type="block" width="16" height="1"></td>
<td width="2" height="1"><spacer type="block" width="2" height="1"></td>
<td width="286" height="1"><spacer type="block" width="286" height="1"></td>
<td width="463" height="1"><spacer type="block" width="463" height="1"></td>
<td width="1" height="1"><spacer type="block" width="1" height="1"></td>
<td width="1119" height="1"><spacer type="block" width="1119" height="1"></td>
<td width="1" height="1"><spacer type="block" width="1" height="1"></td>
</tr>
</table>
<p></p>
</body>
</html>
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Bruce,
Ok, more infos. I've never seen such a weired thing. It might be as often a stupid thing forgotten that we don't see.
On older browers it works, the sound is there but on the source code there is still this volume, wich I verify that it isn't operative and doesn't force the volume to be at a dertermined level anyway.
On newer browsers, there is absolutly no sound at all, the volume setting is also on the source code,
while in Safari you don't see this code anymore as you posted. But beleive me, it's there and well there.
With wich program did you trick the HTML ? Also, Safari is a conflictive browser and the programmers avoid it like the plague.
Also, your QT isn't optimized for streaming. Depending on the computer and browser, you'd have to wait the entire clip to be loaded before it would play. It depends on the computer-browser.
More worrying, none of your videos you loaded in QT have the sound on the latest windows-browsers but yes on older windows-browsers. It's important you do an inquiery and fix it IMO.
Why not just embed the Vimeo version ? That's what Recuenco does for hassle-free reasons. Checked your video in Vimeo, it would work on any platform perfectly fine.
Cheers.
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to stop any cashe issues you could make another page .. XXXX2.html
?
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Morgan, it's something more than a caché. None of those videos in QT have the sound in newer windows-browsers. Even the ones that have never been watched before.
There is something in the code.
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I see something, it lacks an embed to end the code. You have this:
<td width="1887" height="368" colspan="6" valign="top" align="left" xpos="32"><object classid="clsid:02BF25D5-8C17-4B23-BC80-D3488ABDDC6B" codebase="http://www.apple.com/qtactivex/qtplugin.cab" height="359" width="772">
<param name="scale" value="1">
<param name="bgcolor" value="#696969">
<param name="src" value="original%20art%20folder/8fd_4min760x330.mov">
<param name="autoplay" value="true">
<param name="controller" value="true">
<embed height="359" pluginspage="http://www.apple.com/quicktime/download/" src="original%20art%20folder/8fd_4min760x330.mov" type="video/quicktime" width="772" controller="true" autoplay="true" bgcolor="#696969" scale="1"> YOU HAVEN'T CLOSED YOUR EMBED CODE HERE
</object></td>
Try this: (copy-paste)
<td width="1887" height="368" colspan="6" valign="top" align="left" xpos="32">
<object CLASSID="clsid:02BF25D5-8C17-4B23-BC80-D3488ABDDC6B" width="772" height="359" CODEBASE="http://www.apple.com/qtactivex/qtplugin.cab">
<param name="src" value="original%20art%20folder/8fd_4min760x330.mov">
<param name="autoplay" value="true">
<param name="loop" value="false">
<param name="controller" value="true">
<param name="bgcolor" value="#696969">
<embed src="original%20art%20folder/8fd_4min760x330.mov" width="772" height="359" loop="false" autoplay="true" controller="true" pluginspage="http://www.apple.com/quicktime/"></embed>
</object>
</td>
Hope it works.
If it does work, well you'll have to re-do all your video codes in your webpage according to this model...A cup of coffee and patience required.
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Thank you so much Fred. Your feedback is exactly why I posted in this forum!
I must say that I designed the page(s) using Adobe GoLive software which is no longer supported by adobe.
I do have a copy of Dreamweaver, but it's rather more difficult to learn.
I guess I could learn to write the code manually, but it's not the way my brain works well...
The reason why I don't embed from Vimeo is that the video doesn't look as well and I don't know of a way to keep the video in the box surrounded by the grey background in a graphically pleasing way. Also, Vimeo is Flash, and is not supported by iPads or iPhones. Many people in the movie business actually watch on an iPad or iPhone.
The Quicktime drives me nuts as well. And look at the problem with the embedding. But these pages do work on iPhones and iPads.
Tell me Fred. If you download the quicktime file to your hard drive, does it play with sound in the Windows Quicktime player? Ie. maybe it's the quicktime player/plug-in and not the source code in the html?
So, is there a newer web video format, that browsers and iPads and iPhones can all play? And what do I need to embed that in my webpage?
Thanks again!
-bruce
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You're welcome Bruce.
Yes the video has the sound, a song I think in russian lenguage (or a strange lenguage for me).
It's the code. You can't open a tag without closing it, it does create conflict.
Check also that in "my" code the QT plug-in direction is slightly different than yours.
I'm not an expert in html but the code I gave you on the previous post is the one we used in the studio and it worked perfectly for us on both Mac-Windows. Try it on one video.
Now we don't use QT anymore but html5 players. It's a little more of an hassle to implement.
I'd stay with the QT, it works, just that you only need a clean code. The compatibility windows-macs and different browsers is a pure hassle even for developers.
About writing html, all you need is the simpliest text editor (no format), or simply stick with your Adobe's program, as soon as it writes html you're good to go.
I'm 99,99999% sure that the problem comes from the fact that you didn't close the open tag: it misses this </embed>
The simpliest way is that you copy-paste the code in your html exactly where your current QT code is, from <td> to </td> , save it and write-over in your ftp.
Let me know if you changed it, I'll report here.
ps: in the case it still doesn't work, you can ad a refresh meta between <head> and </head>
<meta http-equiv="REFRESH" content="your page">
you can also erase this: <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">
or change it to: <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-transitional.dtd">
the more you simplify to the max, the best.
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Looks GREAT on an uncalibrated Windows 7 64 bit laptop, Explorer 9.0.8
Beautiful, bright, saturated, lots of pop, but clean highlights and no color cast.
Some of the interior scenes go a little dark, but that is minor. Some skin tones a little magenta, but the clear glass and Russian dolls look perfect.
I know the default gamma between PC and Mac has always been an issue. Is the Mac still 2.2 and the PC 1.8? No easy way around that, other than detecting browser and playing an alternate edit.
Great stuff! Thanks for sharing! ;D
Michael
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Thanks Michael,
Macs were traditionally gamma 1.8 until recently. Now they come set to gamma 2.2 I think. To make it more complicated, the newer qt players check for the gamma setting of the monitor and make an adjustment, unless it's set in the preferences to "display for dcp compatibility" in which case, no correction is made. Fcp doesn't adjust (at least not the fcp7) and require that the monitor be set to gamma 1.8. iPads and phones play back at gamma 2.2 so it's really unpredictable!
Fred,
I'll try out your code when I figure out how to implement it :)
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Fred,
Tried your code, but the page didn't quite display correctly for me.
I did add "</embed>" to my code. Let me know if this helps. Or makes things worse ???
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Ok, more news.
About the code, you have to close the embed anyway. It can not stay open, it's a code error.
It's correct to add "</embed>" to close an open one.
Something is happening because the source code doesn't change on windows. It seems that you are doing html changes that aren't taken into consideration but only in MNac.
I've checked in different Windows units, with all possible browsers, emptying cachés etc...
But I've discovered something interesting:
I've downloaded your video. Sound plays perfect as I told you before, but... on older QT versions in Windows, not with the latest. If I open your QT video with
old QT or other players, it works. If I use the latest QT updated in Windows, it does not have the sound.
This afternoon, as I got one copy, I'll put your video in our server with my code so we can check what happens. I really hope it's going to work.
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SOLVED !
I tell you what happened.
I realized, doing a quick research in internet, that I was far from being the only one who had suddenly no more sound with QT files when played in QT 7.#. In fact a lot of people experienced it, even in Mac.
So I did an inquiery.
The issue came from a bad implemented auto-up-date. I had to manually re-install the QT player from the Apple page and choose "repair". That explains why on older windows I didn't have issues because this Apple updated wasn't installed yet.
Now it works ! Yeah. Happy end.
However...this is a really bad annoying situation because there must be millions of users (no, there are actually) with this issue without them to even notice it (because the .mov files are viewed perfectly in other viewers). When they want to play the .mov in internet, it would be silent and I'm not sure most of the people will even find the time to check what was involved.
This is not trustable as a professional viewer unless you show yourself the work in a device you know it's working. Otherwise there will be always this doubt that it might not be played properly.
Honestly, it doesn't give a lot of confidence to use the QT player. Thank god we switched to html5 before this Apple hassle. (the sound in QT is prob for commercial reasons).
So if Apple wants people to use this player in other platforms, they need to stop hassleling like that and being serious, included the gamma shift. It reminds me Windows 10 years ago.
The good news is that its working. The bad news is that it's working because I had to repair the QT update. (reminds me of a RCX update).
At least we end to know what was happening. But Bruce, as soon as you can, change all that and get rid of the QT. Not reliable enough to display professionaly.
Ps: and, oh yeah, close this embed tag in the code. ;)
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Bruce,
I had 20min to loose this afternoon. I uploaded your video in our server but using html 5.
So what you see here: http://www.pepe-botella.com/BRUCE/test-bruce.html
is actually html 5.
Let me know if it works on your computer and mobile devices. I am not expert, so it might not work, I've just been playing. (on all my computer units and phones it works)
look how simple is the code:
<!DOCTYPE html>
<html>
<head>
<title>test-bruce</title>
<link href="video-js.css" rel="stylesheet" type="text/css">
<script src="video.js"></script>
</head>
<body>
<video id="example_video_1" class="video-js vjs-default-skin" controls preload="none" width="760" height="330"
poster="bruce.png"
data-setup="{}">
<source src="8fd_4min760x330.mp4" type='video/mp4'>
<source type='video/webm' src="8fd_4min760x330.webmvp8.webm">
</video>
</body>
</html>
--------------
It's very easy to do.
you just have to replace (re-write) the extension .bloody naughty mov by .mp4
then put 4 files I can send to you if you're interested.
I've also done a second version in webM to secure the compatibility. It's very easy to do and understand. Our gran'ma could do it.
please let me know if you can view it properly.
Then I will erase it from our server after you checked it.
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Hi Fred,
Ah, good news. and not so good news about the QT Player fiasco.
About the </embed>, i did add it. Here's is from my Safari browser of the code downloaded from my server. What is interesting to me is that the "<embed" doesn't have a closed ">"
I think the "</embed>" I added is doing nothing....
" <param name="scale" value="1">
<param name="bgcolor" value="#696969">
<param name="src" value="original%20art%20folder/8fd_4min760x330.mov">
<param name="autoplay" value="true">
<param name="controller" value="true">
<embed height="359" pluginspage="http://www.apple.com/quicktime/download/" src="original%20art%20folder/8fd_4min760x330.mov" type="video/quicktime" width="772" controller="true" autoplay="true" bgcolor="#696969" scale="1">
</object></embed></td>"
The page you made plays in Safari, albeit, it plays jerky until enough is downloaded. But I do need to get the video into my page graphics.
Thanks so much for all your research!
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Bruce,
Correct, the embed you added is doing "apparently" nothing but in fact it will avoid possible problems. It was a missing tag. Browsers normally have a sort of tolerance when the code is uncomplete, but it depends. As I pointed, Safari is never used by devs as a base browser because it's problematic. So this tag, although not at first relevant is necesary.
As Cooter likes to say, it's the wild west!
I'm not surprised in the end that people Like Recuenco just embed in Vimeo to avoid compatibility hassles.
There is a Vimeo equivalent but with higher quality call Exposureroom. Lots of filmakers are there. It's more pro-orientated that I've heard.
Best regards and have a nice week-end.
Ps: using the html 5 code on your page, here: http://www.pepe-botella.com/BRUCE/test-bruce2.html. (you'd need 4 files to make the html 5 works, if you want them mail me I send it to you)
Here would be the complete code:
<!DOCTYPE html>
<html>
<head>
<title>8 First Dates sampler</title>
<link href="video-js.css" rel="stylesheet" type="text/css">
<script src="video.js"></script>
</head>
<body bgcolor="#ffffff">
<table width="1920" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" bgcolor="#222222" background="original%20art%20folder/generic%20bg%204.png" cool gridx="16" gridy="16" height="1280" showgridx showgridy>
<tr height="112">
<td width="1919" height="112" colspan="7"><spacer type="block" width="1919" height="112"></td>
<td width="1" height="112"><spacer type="block" width="1" height="112"></td>
</tr>
<tr height="368">
<td width="32" height="368"><spacer type="block" width="32" height="368"></td>
<td width="1887" height="368" colspan="6" valign="top" align="left" xpos="32">
<video id="example_video_1" class="video-js vjs-default-skin" controls preload="none" width="760" height="330"
poster="bruce.png"
data-setup="{}">
<source src="8fd_4min760x330.mp4" type='video/mp4'>
<source type='video/webm' src="8fd_4min760x330.webmvp8.webm">
</video>
</td>
<td width="1" height="368"><spacer type="block" width="1" height="368"></td>
</tr>
<tr height="106">
<td width="48" height="106" colspan="2"><spacer type="block" width="48" height="106"></td>
<td content csheight="61" width="752" height="106" colspan="4" valign="top" xpos="48"><font size="+1" color="#e8e8e8">Sampler from the Russian romantic comedy "8 First Dates" </font>
<p><font size="+1" color="#e8e8e8">Directed by: David Dodson, Sasha Malarevsky</font></p>
</td>
<td width="1119" height="106"><spacer type="block" width="1119" height="106"></td>
<td width="1" height="106"><spacer type="block" width="1" height="106"></td>
</tr>
<tr height="44">
<td width="50" height="44" colspan="3"><spacer type="block" width="50" height="44"></td>
<td content csheight="33" width="749" height="44" colspan="2" valign="top" xpos="50"><font size="+1" color="#e8e8e8"><a href="http://vimeo.com/32825688">can't view the quicktime? see it on Vimeo, password "bruce"</a></font></td>
<td width="1120" height="44" colspan="2"><spacer type="block" width="1120" height="44"></td>
<td width="1" height="44"><spacer type="block" width="1" height="44"></td>
</tr>
<tr height="649">
<td width="48" height="649" colspan="2"><spacer type="block" width="48" height="649"></td>
<td content csheight="21" width="288" height="649" colspan="2" valign="top" xpos="48"><font face="Helvetica, Geneva, Arial, SunSans-Regular, sans-serif"><font size="4" color="#474747"><u><a href="index.html"><strong><em>return to home page</em></strong></a></u></font></font></td>
<td width="1583" height="649" colspan="3"><spacer type="block" width="1583" height="649"></td>
<td width="1" height="649"><spacer type="block" width="1" height="649"></td>
</tr>
<tr height="1" cntrlrow>
<td width="32" height="1"><spacer type="block" width="32" height="1"></td>
<td width="16" height="1"><spacer type="block" width="16" height="1"></td>
<td width="2" height="1"><spacer type="block" width="2" height="1"></td>
<td width="286" height="1"><spacer type="block" width="286" height="1"></td>
<td width="463" height="1"><spacer type="block" width="463" height="1"></td>
<td width="1" height="1"><spacer type="block" width="1" height="1"></td>
<td width="1119" height="1"><spacer type="block" width="1119" height="1"></td>
<td width="1" height="1"><spacer type="block" width="1" height="1"></td>
</tr>
</table>
<p></p>
</body>
</html>
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Fred's version (html5) played on my iPhone with no problem!
Same on laptop. Quicktime there is version 7.7.1, which I think is current. 64 bit Windows Explorer.
Also worked in Safari and Chrome on the Windows 7 laptop.
Sound starts out high, I have to reach for volume in each. Could you ramp the sound a bit over the first few seconds (in your export, not HTML) to give folks a chance to adjust?
Congrats on the project!
Michael