Luminous Landscape Forum
Raw & Post Processing, Printing => Colour Management => Topic started by: ThDo on April 09, 2012, 03:56:38 am
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The i1Pro 2 is for release this april.
So if you are thinking about buying an i1Pro wait a few days.
Overall it sounds really great.
Main differences to the i1Pro.
minimal patch size: 7mm
Filterless dual scan measurement technology (This technology enables the ability to provide multiple measurement conditions through the combination of the device’s two light sources (tungsten and UV LED)
So no need to decide UVCut or not. One device for all purposes.
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NDA's expire at 9am EST this morning. More then.
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I'm trying to find the upgrade information.
I owned an i1Pro from 2010.
Does anyone has any information about the upgrade?
Thanks
Aaron
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The spec. has been leaked at http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=21875761
Before ordering anything new like this I'd want to know a lot more about what it offers* and if it works.
*Will it need new software to utilise any new features ? If so will the new software be any good ?
How backwards compatible is it ?
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Andrew's nice, short review is now on the LuLa home pages. Must be an excellent meter.
I can understand X-Rite's decision to keep a tungsten light source + the addition of a UV LED as it builds on their expertise with older instruments but I wonder whether there will be D50 full spectrum light sources used in spectrometers from other manufacturers that apply to M1 rules anytime soon. In a sense the SpectroCam already had that with the Xenon flash lamp and I think it should be possible with halogene lamps that come closer to D50. I assume that the X-Rite tungsten lamp did not change compared to the older Eye 1 Pro.
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Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst
340+ paper white spectral plots:
http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
update april 2012: Harman by Hahnemühle, Innova IFA45 and more
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I wonder whether there will be D50 full spectrum light sources used in spectrometers from other manufacturers that apply to M1 rules anytime soon.
Barbieri SpectroPad indicates it produces M1.
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Cheapest upgrade cost I've seen so far is £850 :(
I wonder if the EULA will be even worse than X-Rite's last products ?
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*Will it need new software to utilise any new features ? If so will the new software be any good ?
How backwards compatible is it ?
Yes, i1Profiler v1.3 and newer is required for the i1Pro2 device. i1Profiler v1.3 is backwards compatible and also introduces some new functionality that's available to other i1 devices as well. I've discussed the product roadmap for i1Profiler with the product manager and while I can't comment on it let's just say XRite isn't sitting on their feet. More stuff to come with updates coming out regularly (appx every 7-14 months). All of this will just keep getting better with 1.4, 1.5, etc.
i1Profiler 1.3.1 is supposed to be released sometime today and existing apps should update themselves with the in-app auto update functionality.
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Barbieri SpectroPad indicates it produces M1.
LED lamp(s) so not full spectrum either I guess.
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Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst
340+ paper white spectral plots:
http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
update april 2012: Harman by Hahnemühle, Innova IFA45 and more
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LED lamp(s) so not full spectrum either I guess.
You’ll have to take up with the ISO and perhaps Barbieri how they define full spectrum in terms of producing M1.
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Anybody know what the upgrade price (or free upgrade :)) would be if you bought the “i1Pro Photo” 20 days ago?
I do have a call into x-rite… waiting to hear back.
Thanks
Darren
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Looking at the specs sheet, what worries me most about this (apart from the infamous X-Rite EULA of course) is the so-called "service status indicator".
Not much is said about what this means, I have grave misgivings that the i1Pro2 will reach a point when it deems an expensive service is "necessary" (no doubt pre-determined by X-Rite's Accounting department), and stop working until it has been back to X-Rite to have it reset.
Call me a pessimist if you will, but given X-Rite's track record for being probably THE most unscrupulous OEM I've ever had to deal with (the last sanitized EULA still grants them permission to enter my premises and inspect my business to see if they approve of how I use their software, and to remotely disable software on my computer, for which I must assume they have included a back-door in i1Profiler), I really wouldn't put anything past this company.
We can only hope the new owners of the company are a little more ethical.
There's apparently supposed to be an "upgrade" option but I don't see it anywhere, nor any sign of the iO table retrofit option (surely it's just the cradle part?). Anyone found news on this?
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There's apparently supposed to be an "upgrade" option but I don't see it anywhere,
All dealer have been given a Dealer Guide that has all of this info. Contact your dealer for this info.
nor any sign of the iO table retrofit option (surely it's just the cradle part?). Anyone found news on this?
I've been told (by XRite) that anyone can send in their iO table for the retrofit but I don't know what the cost or availability is. That is the one thing I don't see in the dealer guide.
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Got the upgrade email today.
Basically 2 upgrade options, depending on which unit you have. Upgrade A is $1,499 from Publish Pro (and a list of other packages - Extreme, etc.) to Publish Pro 2. Upgrade B is $1,699 from Photo Pro (and lower - OEM hardware, Basic) to Publish Pro2.
But street price at one site is $1,849 for Pro 2 and $1,449 for Upgrade A. So a savings of $400. Price to buy Photo 2 package is $1,499, so cheaper than upgrading from Photo to Publish if you are happy with the Photo package.
From ColorHQ:
http://www.colorhq.com/i1-Color-Management-s/29.htm
From Xrite:
http://www.xrite.com/product_overview.aspx?id=1951
If you have a product registered at the Xrite site, you can go into your profile and it will tell you which upgrade package you need.
I guess we will have to see when they dead end the software for the Publish Pro 1 version? I have a lot of other things on the list, like a Nikon 800E and Nikon lenses. Don't really see $1,500 for Upgrade A right now. For $750 I would do it.
Let us know what you think as you wade through the options! Sell existing unit and buy outright for $1,850? Upgrade and then sell existing unit? Is that possible?
Thanks!
Michael
(Edited to clarify versions. On my phone - sorry.)
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Basically 2 upgrade options, depending on which unit you have.
The Dealer Guide lists more than two upgrade options. Email me if you want to see it and/or have a verbal conversation with your dealer about what options you have.
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Upgrade and then sell existing unit? Is that possible?
That sounds like a smart way to go.
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Let us know what you think as you wade through the options!
The upgrade option for users who upgraded from PM5 to i1Profiler appears to be buying i1Pro2Basic package.
Sell existing unit and buy outright for $1,850? Upgrade and then sell existing unit? Is that possible?
Yes of course, but here's where it gets really interesting..... BUYER BEWARE. I've seen in the blurb about this release details about license "transfer", which is plugging in old devices (with in-built dongle etc) and "transferring" the license to new device. No mention of whether this license is then removed from the old device or not, this is something which needs clarification, otherwise we could see a lot of unfortunate folks picking up second hand bargains on older spectro Basic/Photo kits and finding out they can't be used because all the licenses have been removed.....
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BUYER BEWARE. I've seen in the blurb about this release details about license "transfer", which is plugging in old devices (with in-built dongle etc)
OK. Looks like the original device you are upgrading from has only basic monitor capability remaining after the upgrade. Plus projector, and printer "QA" - but no printer profile generation.
Step 4: Software walks customer through process of simply plugging in each device and automatically transfers the license flags.
•All i1Match and i1Profiler software functionality will be transferred and ready to use on your new i1Pro 2 device.
•Your original i1Pro device will now have i1Profiler monitor, projector, monitor QA and printer QA modules activated.
So you save $400 on an upgrade from Publish Pro to PP2. Then you have a $100+- display device that uses iProfiler to sell, or keep as an extra device?
No hurry I guess. They could have captured many more $$ by giving us a good break for 60-90 days only, like $800 short term. I need to buy Adobe CS 6.0 Production first at around the same price, along with $5K of cameras and lenses.
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Looking at the specs sheet, what worries me most about this (apart from the infamous X-Rite EULA of course) is the so-called "service status indicator".
Not much is said about what this means, I have grave misgivings that the i1Pro2 will reach a point when it deems an expensive service is "necessary" (no doubt pre-determined by X-Rite's Accounting department), and stop working until it has been back to X-Rite to have it reset.
For me it's one of the biggest benefits of new sensor. i1pro 2 has wavelength compensation feature, that can fix small misalignments of diffraction grating and CCD caused by strikes, shakes, falls etc. If the damage is too serious to be fixed by automatic wavelenght compensation the instrument tells you that it needs a service repair.
Another cool thing is a large, detachable glass filter, and larger calibration tile, that are easy to clean. AFAIK dirt and small misalignments of optic layout were major reasons of potential lack of accuracy in i1pro 1, and these issues seem to be adressed in new sensor.
Of course only time will tell how it works in practice, but technically there's a big chance it will be much more reliable accurate and robust than it's predecessor.
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I spoke to a very knowledgeable salesperson, Michelle, at Xrite yesterday. I was asking about most effective upgrade path from PM5. I have a purple dongle for PM5. She said I'd need to buy the i1Pro 2 basic package at $1199 retail USA, then add upgrade package A. Here's the cool/interesting part depending on your frame of mind. The upgrade A package is going to add newest i1PublishPro activation onto my old PM5 purple dongle while still leaving PM5 active. So, I will be able to use PM5 with my old Spectrolino/spectroscan including full functionality to Measuretool, and the same dongle will also serve as the "dongle" to the i1Pro basic device and enable full use of i1PublishPro. That's my best upgrade path since I only need one seat for i1publishPro. She said if I needed to activate the i1Pro2 spectro on its own independent of the old dongle, then I'd need to buy the more expensive i1Pro2 "photo" or "publish" bundles, but as long as I'm Ok using the old purple PM5 dongle as my i1PublishPro enabler, then I only need the i1Pro2 basic. So, total upgrade cost for me is $1199 for unit, and $599 for upgrade A. Pricey, but I personally do think the new device plus latest profiling software is reasonably priced for such a specialized product.
I'm pretty happy with that news, but that said, it took a fair amount of time to wade through all the options with Michelle, so I forgot to ask whether the latest Eula is going to strip any of my original PM5 rights with respect to distributing PM5 built profiles to others. I personally think it would be illegal to tell me PM5 is still going to function at 100% while failing to say I give up some rights I originally had with the PM5 package. FWIW, I don't really distribute "generic profiles" for others to use, just custom profiles for clients outputting to my own printers which is fair use even with Xrite's most restrictive Eulas AFAIK, so it's somewhat of a moot issue for me. However, for others, it would perhaps be wise to double check the EULA with respect to the latest one stripping out rights from PM5. Or was that big snafu with the original i1Publish upgrade from PM5 Eula resolved some time ago?
What I really like about the new i1Pro2 is that Xrite seems to have reincorporated the full feature set of the original Spectrolino that got lost on the first i1pro model (UV included/excluded capability plus a more rational foot design for hand held spot measurements). It also looks like the ruler scanning mode is going to work much better with accurate positioning coordinates being supplied from the ruler itself and not just relying solely on weird printed lines/gaps and scrambled patches in the target itself.
best,
Mark
http://www.aardenburg-imaging.com
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So, I will be able to use PM5 with my old Spectrolino/spectroscan including full functionality to Measuretool, and tje same dongle will also serve as the "dongle" to the i1Pro basic device and enable full use of i1PublishPro.
You probably DO want to have access to the PMP stuff, especially MeasureTool but maybe ProfileEditor (which while an exercise in frustration, at least somewhat useful). There is a lot of missing functionality in i1Profiler that didn’t make it from ProfileMaker Pro. I often have to use MT or other modules along with i1Profiler. That I have to boot from Lion into 10.6 is a drag. But I’m happy to have the ability to use those legacy tools. Hopefully some day, i1Profiler will have all those options and more.
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...That I have to boot from Lion into 10.6 is a drag. But I’m happy to have the ability to use those legacy tools. Hopefully some day, i1Profiler will have all those options and more.
Amen. Doesn't Xrite understand how incredibly useful MT really is? So much so, that when Apple dumped Rosetta, I picked up a cheap PC and loaded the PC version of MT just to have a safe pathway to continue using MT. Also running MT on legacy Mac OS's.
Apple = arrogant. Xrite = shortsighted.
cheers,
Mark
http://www.aardenburg-imaging.com
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I spoke to a very knowledgeable salesperson, Michelle, at Xrite yesterday. I was asking about most effective upgrade path from PM5. I have a purple dongle for PM5.
You can also buy the full Publish Pro2 kit for $1,849 street price as a new user. No upgrade, no previous kit.
So I don't think you are basically getting anything from the upgrade, as that amounts to $1,800. At least as far as I understand from what you outlined.
I posted a link previously to ColorHQ, who had Publish Pro 2 at the $1,849 price. They were one of only 2 sites I checked. May go lower soon?
No reason to hurry for me - no real breaks by acting now. My prints and profiles are fine, and I am happy. Basically they just dead-ended the current tools (at some point soon) with not much of a break for current users. And reduced the residual value of our older units to almost $0.
Whole lot of "meh" as far as I'm concerned. At least for $1,500 with Adobe CS 6.0 Production I get a whole lot of quality code that has been Beta tested and continously improved. Xrite sounds like a garage shop software developer, based on the interface. At least the underlying profiles are good.
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You can also buy the full Publish Pro2 kit for $1,849 street price as a new user. No upgrade, no previous kit.
So I don't think you are basically getting anything from the upgrade, as that amounts to $1,800. At least as far as I understand from what you outlined.
Yeah, I guess you're right. XRite's different configurations and upgrade policies are as clear as mud >:(
I'm in no hurry, either. PM5 and my venerable old Spectrolino/Spectroscans still deliver excellent results.
cheers,
Mark
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There is a lot of missing functionality in i1Profiler that didn’t make it from ProfileMaker Pro.... Hopefully some day, i1Profiler will have all those options and more.
Can't comment on the roadmap but from what I've discussed with the product manager it's just a matter of time. Dang, we've ALREADY waited so long, right? I like where all of this is going but want to hit the fast forward button. It is exciting that they are getting a chance to rethink all of this and work with new codebase.
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so I forgot to ask whether the latest Eula is going to strip any of my original PM5 rights with respect to distributing PM5 built profiles to others.
That's precisely what the original EULA did, superseded the EULA on your existing X-Rite products.
I personally think it would be illegal to tell me PM5 is still going to function at 100% while failing to say I give up some rights I originally had with the PM5 package.
Unfortunately, if it was in the EULA and you "Agreed" to it, they didn't fail to state it. You have to be really careful, X-Rite's legal team appear to be a law unto themselves.
Or was that big snafu with the original i1Publish upgrade from PM5 Eula resolved some time ago?
My understanding is that they backtracked on the whole superseding of the existing product EULA thing, and one or two minor points. The original EULA was a real piece of work.
Read the new one in full, it's still one of the most insidious I've seen... but regardless; if you're going to buy this (or any!) software and use it for your business, this EULA does restrict what you can do with it, and what X-Rite can do to your computer and your business premises, so you owe it to yourself to be aware.
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Can't comment on the roadmap but from what I've discussed with the product manager it's just a matter of time.
What did you expect the PM to say? Is this time that needs measure using carbon testing? Any idea how long i1P has been in the works? I think we’ve seen at least two rev’s of Photoshop and Lightroom in that time (although to be fair, Adobe has a few more engineers).
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What did you expect the PM to say?
Well I pointedly asked him "Will this be developed, will that be developed, etc" and was told what should show up in 1.4 and 1.5. It was confidence building. Without that, it's hard living in this vague cloud of uncertainty.
Is this time that needs measure using carbon testing?
LOL!
Any idea how long i1P has been in the works?
Painfully aware, yes.
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BUYER BEWARE. I've seen in the blurb about this release details about license "transfer", which is plugging in old devices (with in-built dongle etc) and "transferring" the license to new device.
The license transfer process performs a swap so everything from the old device goes to the new and everything from the new to the old.
I'm working with their marketing group to update the upgrades page to show all the options (beyond just Option A and B) complete with better verbiage and a new upgrade chart. I don't know when it will go live. As it is now it's no wonder everyone is confused.
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My understanding is that they backtracked on the whole superseding of the existing product EULA thing, and one or two minor points. The original EULA was a real piece of work.
Read the new one in full, it's still one of the most insidious I've seen... but regardless; if you're going to buy this (or any!) software and use it for your business, this EULA does restrict what you can do with it, and what X-Rite can do to your computer and your business premises, so you owe it to yourself to be aware.
The i1Profiler 1.31 EULA looks unchanged from the amended on X-Rite sent out last spring. No retroactively changing licensing on previous products; i.e. you cannot use i1Profiler to supply profiles to third parties other than for printers you own or if "Your profiling services involve personalized profile-related customer consultations and are predominantly conducted on-site at a customer location." PMP5 can still be used in these situations.
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The license transfer process performs a swap so everything from the old device goes to the new and everything from the new to the old.
My old i1 Pro used to be licensed for i1 Match printer profiling. I then upgraded it to i1 Publish Upgrade A. If I do a license transfer to an new i1Pro 2 Basic package spectro unit, will my old i1 Pro be rendered unusable for printer profiling in i1 Match? That sounds retrograde to me.
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My old i1 Pro used to be licensed for i1 Match printer profiling. I then upgraded it to i1 Publish Upgrade A. If I do a license transfer to an new i1Pro 2 Basic package spectro unit, will my old i1 Pro be rendered unusable for printer profiling in i1 Match? That sounds retrograde to me.
Yes, I believe that's how it works. But that's not a retrograde - it's progress. :-] You're upgrading to the new improved software and you'll never want to go back. You'll love it.
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Yes, I believe that's how it works. But that's not a retrograde - it's progress. :-] You're upgrading to the new improved software and you'll never want to go back. You'll love it.
But hang on, after the license transfer to the i1 Pro 2, will my old i1Pro be licensed to do printer profiles in:
1: i1 Match;
2: i1 Profiler;
3: Both;
4: None?
Remember, it was originally licensed to do printer profiles in i1 Match before I upgraded it last year. It would be retrograde if I could now no longer use the old i1 Pro even do do i1 Match printer profiles.
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But hang on, after the license transfer to the i1 Pro 2, will my old i1Pro be licensed to do printer profiles in:
4: None?
See http://www.xrite.com/product_overview.aspx?ID=1951 (http://www.xrite.com/product_overview.aspx?ID=1951) - quote:
"All i1Match and i1Profiler software functionality will be transferred and ready to use on your new i1Pro 2 device.
Your original i1Pro device will now have i1Profiler monitor, projector, monitor QA and printer QA modules activated."
So your i1Pro becomes the equivalent of i1 Basic Pro, while the new i1Pro2 becomes the equivalent to the old i1Pro with the i1Match licenses + i1Publish licenses. You'd have to use i1Match with the i1Pro2 in compatibility mode (which I assume is automatic on the new i1Pro2 hardware).