Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Cameras, Lenses and Shooting gear => Topic started by: ymc226 on April 06, 2012, 03:47:51 pm
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Coming from film (using F6, Leica MP/7 as well as MF film), wanting to trade in F6 for digital. This is a hobby and I shoot a variety of styles (sports, portrait, street, landscape) and have lots of Nikon lenses.
What would be the advantages of the D3x over the D800/E?
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I have an M7 and F100 and 503CW so I know where you are coming from with the whole film thing. I do this as a hobby as well and shoot sports, portraits and landscape. While the D800 has a bigger and more highly rated sensor then the D3x at this point. If those are the two choices, I would get the D3x. However, if you are more into the portrait side of things, I would look for a medium format digital back, which in refurbished condition can run lower then a D3x or some even new are around a D3x in price and will blow D3x results out of the water. But if you are more on the sports side of things, of the two cameras, I would say the D800, since I believe it has a better AF system (*check this I could be wrong) but frankly if sports is the bigger of the two then I would look at a D3s or D4 since they have higher frame rates then the D3x. But overall if you dabble in sports, portrait and landscape (street too) then I would suggest the D3x, since it has more pro controls and is laid out in a more user-friendly ergonomic way (if you ask me). I had a D700 before moving to D3s and then D3s and D4 so I have some idea of what the D800 will be like without ever holding one. I think they are about equal in the frame rate side of things since they have such large files to process and the buffer's can't really do high fps. If sports and street are the least relevant I would look at a medium format digital back, even a 22mp back will blow a 36mp 35mm sensor out of the water. But I believe a D3 series camera (or D4) would fulfill your needs or desires better.
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This is your hobby. I would go for the D800. It is really a nice camera and it will produce really nice results. It is also the latest in sensor technology. You have lenses and the camera will do all the types of photography you do.
Whether you want the D800 or D800E, it is a personal choice. Both cameras will be excellent. The D800E will just be more prone to moire, which can be annoying. The added resolving power might be fun for you.
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The added resolving power might be fun for you.
Fun counts too!
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Thanks Brian,
Though I shoot just about everyting, portraits and candid portraits of my kids are my main interest.
I've thought about a MF digital back but didn't look into it as I assumed the expense and techincal expertise might both be too steep.
I use both a Hasselblad 203FE and 205FCC. Can you give me brands and models as well as sites which would be good to start looking?
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If you are in love with Hasselbald, the of course make the H system, which I used to own but moved away from since I did not enjoy the ergonomics or functionality. They do still make the 503Cw and there are numerous CFI / CFE lenses available as well as CF and some others wihc can be used with this system. Of course no autofocus so sports is out, but they make a couple of CVF digital backs, an older 16mp version, and more modern CFV39 and CFV50 with respective MP counts that are slightly trimmed since those are 645 megapixel counts but you can shoot square with slightly fewer MP. All of PhaseOne's backs worth with V system but Hasselblad's work without flash sync cables which is certainly a marketable feature. I personally use the PhaseOne 645DF, its slightly bulkier but different then a D3x but still manageable and functions very similar to any other japanese camera so there really isn't a learning curve. The biggest adjustment is the less flexible ISO range, but on the newer DB's like the Phase IQ series this is a non issue, and even on the P+ backs from PhaseOne ISO performance is pleasing. Personally I have had bad experiences with leaf, and they are less designed for being out and about and more designed for studio work.....
http://www.phaseone.com/en/Camera-Systems.aspx
http://www.hasselbladusa.com/products/v-system.aspx
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After 3 years with a D3X and one week witha D800, I would go with the D800.
The reason why should be clear in a few hours.
Cheers,
Bernard
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After 3 years with a D3X and one week witha D800, I would go with the D800.
The reason why should be clear in a few hours.
Cheers,
Bernard
I won't be awake then, is it ergonomics or resolution?
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I won't be awake then, is it ergonomics or resolution?
A wide combination of factors.
Sorry, no time to write more now.
Cheers,
Bernard
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I've been using a D3x for about 3 years now and I'm not selling it to get a D800.
I don't need bigger files,I don't do movies and I doubt the D800 will give me better files.
Not after it's printed in a magazine anyway.
Also now the D3x is discontinued ,it is very clear there will be an upgrade coming of the D3x.
That might be a camera I would be interested in.
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Hi,
The D3X is 3.5 year old technology in a very robust body. The D800 is brand new technology in a body that probably is less robust.
If you are into Nikon, the D800/D800E is probably the best choice, unless you are shooting a lot of sports. I'd presume that the D800 is a better camera for portraits, street and landscape than the D3X. For sports you probably don't need the resolution of the D800/D800E and may lack the frame rate of a D4. On the street a smaller camera is preferable.
In my humble opinion the 36 MP feature of the D800 is a bit overblown. In linear resolution it is about 22% advantage, it may be noticable but not much more. Certainly an advantage but no game changer. Also, keep in mind that whatever the sensor, optimum performance may need be hard to achieve. Other factors like focusing, vibrations, stabilization may matter a lot.
Bernard's article sums it up pretty nicely.
Best regards
Erik
Coming from film (using F6, Leica MP/7 as well as MF film), wanting to trade in F6 for digital. This is a hobby and I shoot a variety of styles (sports, portrait, street, landscape) and have lots of Nikon lenses.
What would be the advantages of the D3x over the D800/E?
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Why don't we wait what Bernard has to say?
Because of him,I got myself a D3x and I'm still very happy with it.
What you can pull out of the shadows with that thing is pretty amazing.
Best,
Willem.
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I would go D800E but since it is not available yet so I am waiting for some more words on D800 vs D800E to make final move. But sure, my D3X will become a back-up camera adn I guess after more field works I may just do with 2 D800/E. The pro camera was always that heavy since the Nikon F days perhaps because they cannot be made lighter and still strong enough. This is 2012, they can now produce camera as strong, and more powerful at friendly weight, even the D4 is lighter now but I find more pexels more appealing - for what I shoot.
Pingang
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How much does a D800 weigh with a battery pack?
Compared to a D4 or D3x,come on guys!
Go to the gym LOL,
W
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The answer is easy. The D800! It will make you a 50% better photographer than a D3x. Ask any of the people who place advanced orders.
However, if you're more based on reality than fantasy, then the answer may be different. The D3x has many advantages over the D800, body build, as someone said earlier, being foremost among them. I've dropped my D3x twice, from 3-4 feet, onto asphalt and rock. Both times it emerged unscathed (though scared the crap out of me). If the D800 is anything like the D7000, I am sure the outcome would have been different.
Also, the D3x can use all three PC-E lenses without limitations. The D800 should be able to use the 45mm and 85mm, but will have somewhat limited use with the 24mm.
My biggest complaint with the D800 is the external batter pack/grip. Not matter how well made it will be, it will never be as solid as an integral batter pack like D3x. And, as it will be what sits on the tripod, that means there is an increased potential for camera movement. I've seen this on the D7000.
The bottom line is that the D3x is made for professional work. It is tough and and it is reliable. The D800 is made for advanced amateurs, thus is made less robust. However, a new D800 is probably less expensive than a used D3x and money is almost always an issue.
As others have said, I see no reason to trade in my D3x for a D800.
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I think the question is here: Do you need a pro body.
I shoot Canon and have a 1DS3 and the new 5D3. The main difference for me is weight and ergonomics.
From a technology point of view the D800 is better being the current iteration.
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Also, the D3x can use all three PC-E lenses without limitations. The D800 should be able to use the 45mm and 85mm, but will have somewhat limited use with the 24mm.
not true
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=nehkWWCRWZE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=nehkWWCRWZE)
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Also, the D3x can use all three PC-E lenses without limitations. The D800 should be able to use the 45mm and 85mm, but will have somewhat limited use with the 24mm.
??? You mean to say that the 24mm will make sharp images in the D3x, but because the D800 divides the image into more pixels the resulting image will then appear soft? Sorry, even if what you say is true that the 24mm is somehow inferior, the images will look just as good if not a little better on the D800 than the D3x. Unless you are going to install monitors in your exhibition and allow the audience to pixel peep.
;) :D ;D
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As others have said, I see no reason to trade in my D3x for a D800.
I think the d800 is in every aspect the better camera:( and i have the D3x for three years)
Nikon will not produce a crappy body for this camera: this one is too important for them- leaves one pound of weight i do not have to carry around all day(- also you drop one pound less if you drop it)
about two stop more sensitive- almost clean 3200 asa
more dynamic range
a silence mode + and no shaking ( live view makes it possible only to reduce the sound to only the shutter-no the mirror slab)
12mp pixels more information
a possibly better autofocus - as they say
a possibly better light metering - as they say
and good quality HD video
these are all basic improvements- the only thing i do not like is the smaller battery.
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not true
Ummmm....did you even watch the video? It expressly states that rotation is limited, which is exactly what I inferred. That limitation, which is pretty much the same as when mounted on the D7000, can sometimes be a bit of a pain, especially when one needs to have either the tilt or rise on an odd angle, such as 45-degrees on the offending side. Also, it can be problematic when rotating the camera from horizontal to vertical and wanting to use the same tilt/shift settings, as the lens hits the flash housing and prevents rotation to one side. I know because, unlike you, I have real world experience with the issue. It can usually be worked out, but not as easily as when using on the D3x. So yes, my statement IS most definitely true.
??? You mean to say that the 24mm will make sharp images in the D3x, but because the D800 divides the image into more pixels the resulting image will then appear soft?
What are you talking about? Really, I don't get it. Where the hell did I say, or even hint, that the 24mm PC-E lens will be softer on the D800? There is simply no sane way you could have read than in my post. I said there will be some LIMITATIONS, and there are. Rotation LIMITATIONS. Jeesh. Next time you might actually read a post before you respond.
Chuck (the guy without a 645d, and even if he did he wouldn't brag about it) Kimmerle
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Ummmm....did you even watch the video? It expressly states that rotation is limited, which is exactly what I inferred. That limitation, which is pretty much the same as when mounted on the D7000, can sometimes be a bit of a pain, especially when one needs to have either the tilt or rise on an odd angle, such as 45-degrees on the offending side. Also, it can be problematic when rotating the camera from horizontal to vertical and wanting to use the same tilt/shift settings, as the lens hits the flash housing and prevents rotation to one side. I know because, unlike you, I have real world experience with the issue. It can usually be worked out, but not as easily as when using on the D3x. So yes, my statement IS most definitely true.
This is indeed correct. The inconvenience is close to zero for my personnal shooting style, but there are indeed some limitations compared to the D3x.
Cheers,
Bernard
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So yes, my statement IS most definitely true.
cool down Mr.Kimmerle, nobody is questioning your merits as photographer, it's just some small talk about cameras and lenses.
yes I watched the video and I think the "limitations" ("the Nikkor 24mm PC-E lens works without any problems on the D800 - it just clears the prism housing, to use the camera in portrait mode however, you have to rotate the lens the "wrong" way (clockwise) so the adjustment knob is on the right-hand side of the camera as you operate it. If you rotate the lens to the counter-clockwise the shift adjustment knob fouls the prism housing. It's not a major issue, more a different way of working, for me at least") are minor compared to the possibilities.
And I was thinking you refer to this: http://nikonrumors.com/2012/03/10/nikon-support-nikkor-pc-e-24mm-f3-5d-ed-lens-cannot-be-used-with-shifting-and-tilting-on-the-d800.aspx/#more-35516
I'm happy you love your D3x so much. Congratulations.
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Also, the D3x can use all three PC-E lenses without limitations. The D800 should be able to use the 45mm and 85mm, but will have somewhat limited use with the 24mm.
Not so fast my friend. :)
I got my D800 last week and it works perfectly with the Nikon 24mm PC-E.....
SS
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Also now the D3x is discontinued ,it is very clear there will be an upgrade coming of the D3x.
If by that you mean a big, heavy, super-rugged body with integrated vertical grip, and also with high resolution like the D800, it is not at all clear to me that such a camera is coming from either Nikon or Canon. The recent product announcements from both Nikon and Canon seem to say that those "super heavy duty" bodies are now being offered only in high speed "press cameras" like the Nikon D4 and Canon 1DX, because now that those high speed models exceed the resolution needs of even the great majority of professional and advanced amateur usage, it is probably the case that most customers needing even higher resolution (for landscapes, architecture, studio work and such) prefer lighter and far less expensive bodies like the D800. Maybe when a camera can offer both 10fps and 30MP+, you will see that in a super heavy duty body.
And after all, back when this high resolution market was served exclusively by medium format (along with view cameras), none of those cameras offered greater ruggedness than the D800. Or integrated vertical grips!
P. S. I premise this on the understanding that the D800 (and the D700 before it) are of build quality significantly greater than the D7000 referred to in some posts here. At the very least, it is weather sealed.
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Not so fast my friend. :)
I got my D800 last week and it works perfectly with the Nikon 24mm PC-E.....
SS
so it doesn't hit the camera housing at all when rotating?
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What would be the advantages of the D3x over the D800/E?
The chief advantage for me is that I have an underwater housing for the D3x- an admittedly specialized advantage. It's just not worthwhile to look at the two cameras comparatively at this time given the fact an Aquatica housing represents nearly $4k. I am impressed with the D800 and actually placed a pre-order but cancelled it. I'm going with what I have for the time being; investing in a larger tripod, the 24TE lens, and additional underwater lighting makes more sense for me at this time. Maybe in a year or so but in the meantime, I need to shoot and dive more with the core system I have.
I applaud Nikon for coming out with the D800/800e. If I didn't have the D3x, I wouldn't think twice about purchasing one.
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so it doesn't hit the camera housing at all when rotating?
to repeat it till you listen
"the Nikkor 24mm PC-E lens works without any problems on the D800 - it just clears the prism housing, to use the camera in portrait mode however, you have to rotate the lens the "wrong" way (clockwise) so the adjustment knob is on the right-hand side of the camera as you operate it. If you rotate the lens to the counter-clockwise the shift adjustment knob fouls the prism housing. It's not a major issue, more a different way of working, for me at least"
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to repeat it till you listen
"the Nikkor 24mm PC-E lens works without any problems on the D800 - it just clears the prism housing, to use the camera in portrait mode however, you have to rotate the lens the "wrong" way (clockwise) so the adjustment knob is on the right-hand side of the camera as you operate it. If you rotate the lens to the counter-clockwise the shift adjustment knob fouls the prism housing. It's not a major issue, more a different way of working, for me at least"
also at Nikon they will give you a smaller knob to replace it if you like
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to repeat it till you listen......you have to rotate the lens the "wrong" way (clockwise)
which is EXACTLY what I was saying all along. Quit being so damned argumentative as you evidently have no idea what you are talking about.
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The D3x has many advantages over the D800, body build, as someone said earlier, being foremost among them. I've dropped my D3x twice, from 3-4 feet, onto asphalt and rock. Both times it emerged unscathed (though scared the crap out of me). If the D800 is anything like the D7000, I am sure the outcome would have been different.
The D800 is at the oft'-called "semi-pro" X00 level,
as for D200, D300, & D700. Is there reasonable evidence
from usage of some manifestation of this supposed lesser
build? --even along the anecdotal lines of the alleged
weakness of the 5DmkII from that Antarctica field trip?!
Or is whatever difference might exist on the order of minor
difference such that it would be tricky to find cases where
the D<X> body would survive better than the D<XNN> one?
--e.g., dropping the camera into the drink : all hopes sink!
As for the integration or not of the grip, that can be seen
as a possibility for lighter vs. heavier --and I've seen many
folks wanting and acting on getting the D700 vs. D3 because
of this.
--dl*
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Why don't we wait what Bernard has to say?
Because of him,I got myself a D3x and I'm still very happy with it.
Also,for that bloody exchange rate at the time,the thing cost me $12.340 AUD
However in the 3 years I've had it , it's paid for itself over and over.
What you can pull out of the shadows with that thing is pretty amazing.
Best,
Willem.
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Why don't we wait what Bernard has to say?
Because of him,I got myself a D3x and I'm still very happy with it.
Also,for that bloody exchange rate at the time,the thing cost me $12.340 AUD
However in the 3 years I've had it , it's paid for itself over and over.
What you can pull out of the shadows with that thing is pretty amazing.
Well, in terms of physical build I won't have much to say. ;)
I have indeed been able to keep shooting with a D2x that had suffered a direct hit following a fall from the top of a 1.7m high tripod into a rock. It turned out the mount had been bent out of alignement, but the camera did keep working besides the pretty deep dent in the lower corner. Would the camera have survived had it fallen from the same height on its prism, I doubt it but will never know for sure.
Would a D800 survive a similar fall? No idea really.
The D800 seems to be very well built, I would say F100 class for those who remember. Now, the amount of padding around key organs is of course less than with the D3/D4 series simply because the body is physically smaller. I am unable to tell whether it would impact actual fall resistance or not.
Cheers,
Bernard
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The D800 ...
Will it blend?
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I am unable to tell whether it would impact actual fall resistance or not.
You could, if you really wanted. It be a sacrifice for science.
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You could, if you really wanted. It be a sacrifice for science.
We would have to sacrifice your D3x at the same time to make the comparison significant... ;)
1.5 meter fall on concrete, prism first,... I bet the D800 would fare better because the destruction of the built-in flash would dissipate enough energy to preserve the prism though. ;D
Cheers,
Bernard
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Shot a series of interiors late last week. Not a single issue with fouling the prism/flash.
If I were shooting in Portrait configuration, I would rotate the lens clockwise rather than counter clockwise. Becomes a methodology of working and certainly not an issue that presents any type of problems.
So, as I said, the 24 PC-E works perfectly with the D800.
Steve