Luminous Landscape Forum

Raw & Post Processing, Printing => Digital Image Processing => Topic started by: Schewe on March 22, 2012, 12:36:27 am

Title: Photoshop CS6 public beta
Post by: Schewe on March 22, 2012, 12:36:27 am
Adobe has posted a download for the Photoshop CS6 public beta HERE (http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/photoshopcs6/).
Title: Re: Photoshop CS6 public beta
Post by: bill t. on March 22, 2012, 01:06:46 am
Well it's about damned time we had the itty-bitty, tilted-lens, miniature city effect right there in PS!  And video editing, say what?

OK, new interface to learn, doggone it I'm too old for that!

Title: Re: Photoshop CS6 public beta
Post by: Schewe on March 22, 2012, 01:31:46 am
OK, new interface to learn, doggone it I'm too old for that!

Not for nothing, but the CS6 UI is NOT based on Aperture (really, it's Lightroom envy, pure and simple (really, a of of Mac sites are implicating Aperture but they have no friggin' clue)...seriously, LR has literally ZERO to NOTHING to do with Aperture.
Title: Re: Photoshop CS6 public beta
Post by: bill t. on March 22, 2012, 01:56:22 am
Well it looks like this is mainly a paradigm-shift version, more than a feature-added version.  Under-the-hood stuff.  Will be interesting to see how much faster it really is.

Don't give a hoot about Aperture.  But hose darned easy to use Lightroom controls have been making PS look a little shopworn, IMHO.  Wouldn't mind a little tune up in that department.  OK, maybe I'll download the Beta.
Title: Re: Photoshop CS6 public beta
Post by: Steve Weldon on March 22, 2012, 02:01:55 am
I noticed that in CS6 x64, the Nik plugins install manager picks up CS6 x32 and CS6 x64, and installs them both.  However, when you pull up an image in CS6 x64 with the Nik plugins installed the image will not display on the workspace.  It displays in the Navigator and the plugins themselves, but not the workspace.

I realize Nik is probably not certifying their products with CS6 yet, but all my other plugins worked so I thought I'd try.  I'm currently reviewing the Nik suite of programs for Nik and have sent in a query.. but if anyone else notices they're not getting an image displayed on the workspace and they have a Nik plugin installed.. this post might save you a few minutes of trouble shooting.   I'll post Nik's response.
Title: Re: Photoshop CS6 public beta
Post by: Ben Rubinstein on March 22, 2012, 03:24:50 am
Is bridge 64bit yet?
Title: Re: Photoshop CS6 public beta
Post by: Schewe on March 22, 2012, 04:30:07 am
Is bridge 64bit yet?

Yeah, I think so...did you try installing in a 64-bit OS?
Title: Re: Photoshop CS6 public beta
Post by: john beardsworth on March 22, 2012, 10:09:08 am
It is 64 bit, Jeff. I'm not sure there are any other changes though!
Title: Re: Photoshop CS6 public beta
Post by: Ellis Vener on March 22, 2012, 10:12:56 am
Hi Jeff,
While I now do my capture and output sharpening in Lr4 I  really appreciate what the Creative Sharpening tools in PhotoKit Sharpener can do for an image. Does PixelGenius have a timeline for updating PK Sharpener or will the current version work?
Title: Re: Photoshop CS6 public beta
Post by: bjanes on March 22, 2012, 10:42:00 am
Yeah, I think so...did you try installing in a 64-bit OS?

I installed the PSCS6 beta on my Win7 64 bit system, and bridge is installed in the 64 bit Program Files directory [rather than the 32 bit Program Files (x86) directory] and is marked as 64 bit. On opening a Nikon NEF raw file in ACR 7, I was immediately impressed on how much faster the rendering was as compared to PSCS5, although I realize that this is likely not related to Bridge operating in 64 bit mode. The new version appears promising.

Regards,

Bill
Title: Re: Photoshop CS6 public beta
Post by: alfin on March 22, 2012, 11:09:11 am
PSCS6 & ACR 7 cannot open 5DMk3 or D800 raw-files.  ??? Works fine in ACR 6.7
Title: Re: Photoshop CS6 public beta
Post by: walter.sk on March 22, 2012, 11:16:15 am
I'm interested in trying the beta, but have one big question:  Past PS betas have lead to problems with using the pre-beta version of PS, and when uninstalling the beta, having to reinstall the earlier PS.  Anybody run into such problems with CS6 beta?
Title: Re: Photoshop CS6 public beta
Post by: Joe S on March 22, 2012, 01:25:25 pm
Hi Jeff,
While I now do my capture and output sharpening in Lr4 I  really appreciate what the Creative Sharpening tools in PhotoKit Sharpener can do for an image. Does PixelGenius have a timeline for updating PK Sharpener or will the current version work?


The website says it is compatable.   I loaded it and it appears to be fine generally but auto edge capture sharpener seems to have a problem.
Title: Re: Photoshop CS6 public beta
Post by: Schewe on March 22, 2012, 02:14:45 pm
Does PixelGenius have a timeline for updating PK Sharpener or will the current version work?

We've already posted updates for CS6, see the Support (http://www.pixelgenius.com/support.html) page for info. Note, we're not "officially" supporting CS6 till the final shipping version comes out...
Title: Re: Photoshop CS6 public beta
Post by: Colorwave on March 23, 2012, 04:13:18 am
I wish they'd hurry up and update Configurator.  My custom button panel I built with it sure stands out, now that the rest of the interface had the lights dimmed.  Gotta like the new speed, though.  Very zippy.
Title: Re: Photoshop CS6 public beta
Post by: Ellis Vener on March 23, 2012, 10:25:31 am
We've already posted updates for CS6, see the Support (http://www.pixelgenius.com/support.html) page for info. Note, we're not "officially" supporting CS6 till the final shipping version comes out...

Thank you Jeff & Joe. Installed and running.
Title: Re: Photoshop CS6 public beta
Post by: digitaldog on March 23, 2012, 10:41:57 am
Interesting how little discussion there has been here and on most of the photo centric sites on Photoshop 6. It seems Lightroom gets 100X+ more attention these days and that makes sense. But I am surprised after watching Photoshop announcements for decades.
Title: Re: Photoshop CS6 public beta
Post by: Alan Goldhammer on March 23, 2012, 11:12:51 am
Interesting how little discussion there has been here and on most of the photo centric sites on Photoshop 6. It seems Lightroom gets 100X+ more attention these days and that makes sense. But I am surprised after watching Photoshop announcements for decades.
I guess the question is whether PS6 offers anything new and improved beyond 5.  With the dramatic changes to LR, I suspect a lot of users will rethink what used to be an automatic upgrade to PS.  I certainly find myself using PS less and less these days and will probably stay with 5 going forward.
Title: Re: Photoshop CS6 public beta
Post by: Chris_Brown on March 23, 2012, 11:18:21 am
Interesting how little discussion there has been here and on most of the photo centric sites on Photoshop 6. It seems Lightroom gets 100X+ more attention these days and that makes sense. But I am surprised after watching Photoshop announcements for decades.

Yeah, my guess is that there are many casual users who feel the adjustments that LR offers negates any further image enhancement in PS. In addition, professionals who want to spend most of their time in the studio or on location probably out-source their post-production (or let the client deal with retouching). Both these market phenomena keep PS in the hands of fewer, highly skilled users.

As for myself, I was an early adopter for years (a original member of the Mine Sweepers Club) and found myself battling bugs from either a newly installed program, the OS, or both. I don't miss those days.
Title: Re: Photoshop CS6 public beta
Post by: Raw shooter on March 23, 2012, 11:46:39 am
I agree about the lack of chatter about CS6.  I have been using quite a bit over the past 24 hours and flat love it.  I would say the video is the best new feature for my workflow.  Simple but lots of easy production tools that it may replace other video software and Photoshop CS6 may become a single product for everything. 
Camera Raw is clearly much improved - like the Lightroom 4 users have been raving.  The Whites slider, yes.  All the starting positions being centered is great, as is negative edits with Black.  Really a great upgrade all around.
Bridge appears more the same as CS5, although I do appreciate the 64 bit upgrade.  Maybe more there, just haven't found it yet.

So I give CS6 an A+ for my work.  Camera Raw and video are everyday work in my world.  The CS6 beta is now my working machine - can't live without the upgrades now!
Title: Re: Photoshop CS6 public beta
Post by: digitaldog on March 23, 2012, 01:04:33 pm
Adobe should offer customers who own Photoshop and Lightroom a special upgrade price. That would allow better integration between LR and PS for using Smart Objects or the Edit in Photoshop command. Otherwise, I suspect a lot of LR users will simply stick with the version of Photoshop they have until they must upgrade (like those on Mac who have to run Lion and have really old versions). It was smart of Adobe to lower the price of LR. Now they need to give LR users a bit better break on Photoshop as more and more LR users say they user Photoshop so little.
Title: Re: Photoshop CS6 public beta
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on March 23, 2012, 01:58:31 pm
Interesting how little discussion there has been here and on most of the photo centric sites on Photoshop 6. It seems Lightroom gets 100X+ more attention these days and that makes sense. But I am surprised after watching Photoshop announcements for decades.

Maybe because it is as yawn-inducing as Canon's 5Dm3? ;)
Title: Re: Photoshop CS6 public beta
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on March 23, 2012, 02:00:52 pm
Adobe should offer customers who own Photoshop and Lightroom a special upgrade price...

By the way, would it be possible to just upgrade ACR to 7 and keep CS5?
Title: Re: Photoshop CS6 public beta
Post by: Colorwave on March 23, 2012, 02:04:36 pm
Have you tried it, Slobodan?  I've been on board since v2.5, and find this version pretty exciting.  The more I play with it, the more I find to like.  There seem to be little improvements scattered throughout.  

Lynda.com has a very good series of videos that are currently free.  http://www.lynda.com/Photoshop-tutorials/Photoshop-CS6-Beta-Preview/97406-2.html
Deke seems to be a little less cutesy than oftentimes is, and it's a very good introduction to the new features.
Title: Re: Photoshop CS6 public beta
Post by: Steve Weldon on March 23, 2012, 02:08:24 pm
Interesting how little discussion there has been here and on most of the photo centric sites on Photoshop 6. It seems Lightroom gets 100X+ more attention these days and that makes sense. But I am surprised after watching Photoshop announcements for decades.
I dunno..  I use both and can't see ever not using both.  But I look at CS6 as a finished product which I have a high level of confidence in.  No need to discuss such a refined product.   Lightroom on the other hand has miles to go to reach this state.  And it's still forming into what will be it's final or more accurately stable incarnation.  So with LR there's more to discuss.
Title: Re: Photoshop CS6 public beta
Post by: digitaldog on March 23, 2012, 02:45:07 pm
I dunno..  I use both and can't see ever not using both.  

Me either! But that wasn’t my point. The question is, will most LR users upgrade? I’m hearing from a lot of hard core LR users still on CS3. For them it would be a great idea to upgrade for what I consider the one must have feature they are missing: Content Aware technology. Unless you don’t do much clone work (something I depend on Photoshop for), that is a major reason to have a modern copy of Photoshop. Or for Mac users who can’t run a non Intel version.

What do hard core LR users want to complement LR in terms of a Photoshop upgrade? You only need one or two must have features. For example, can you image if you could load an image, and an associated DNG profile and use Photoshop as a profile editor? The current DNG profile editor is OK but imagine having all the tools within Photoshop to tweak color and tone. I think a lot of LR users would upgrade just for that feature. Allow us to edit ICC profiles too. Been asking for that for at least a decade. I bet Adobe could get the Kodak Custom Color ICC technology for pennies on the dollar.

Give me a curve dialog to affect saturation so I can desatruate shadows. Or more than four sampler point (ACR has twice that). Let me read out more than just two color models at a time. Improve soft proofing for CMYK. Those are just a few features that I think would make the next Photoshop a compelling upgrade for hard core LR users.

What else?
Title: Re: Photoshop CS6 public beta
Post by: digitaldog on March 23, 2012, 02:45:45 pm
By the way, would it be possible to just upgrade ACR to 7 and keep CS5?

Nope.
Title: Re: Photoshop CS6 public beta
Post by: Steve Weldon on March 23, 2012, 03:16:31 pm
Me either! But that wasn’t my point. The question is, will most LR users upgrade? I’m hearing from a lot of hard core LR users still on CS3. For them it would be a great idea to upgrade for what I consider the one must have feature they are missing: Content Aware technology. Unless you don’t do much clone work (something I depend on Photoshop for), that is a major reason to have a modern copy of Photoshop. Or for Mac users who can’t run a non Intel version.

What do hard core LR users want to complement LR in terms of a Photoshop upgrade? You only need one or two must have features. For example, can you image if you could load an image, and an associated DNG profile and use Photoshop as a profile editor? The current DNG profile editor is OK but imagine having all the tools within Photoshop to tweak color and tone. I think a lot of LR users would upgrade just for that feature. Allow us to edit ICC profiles too. Been asking for that for at least a decade. I bet Adobe could get the Kodak Custom Color ICC technology for pennies on the dollar.

Give me a curve dialog to affect saturation so I can desatruate shadows. Or more than four sampler point (ACR has twice that). Let me read out more than just two color models at a time. Improve soft proofing for CMYK. Those are just a few features that I think would make the next Photoshop a compelling upgrade for hard core LR users.

What else?
a.  Content Aware is the reason I've been upgrading.  And from a business standpoint they'll get a lot of mileage out of Content Aware as they roll out each new version.    My subjects invariably have tons of urban blight that needs removing.  Beautiful temples surrounded by hundreds of power lines, garbage, and the more than occasional drunk tourist..  It takes a while, but the final product is worth it.

b.  Absolutely.  Sometimes I think software developers think keeping certain areas "magic" somehow benefits them.

c.  I thought I was the only one who wanted that.  And make it gradient capable where you can tie the gradient to levels re: saturation.

d.  Why can't "save as" remember where it saved the last time?  Sometimes I import back to LR, other times I want a separate copy somewhere else.  Sometimes I do that more than once.    Bigger fonts in the menus?  With modern monitors (and the older I get) this is more important than ever.   How about intelligent multiple monitor support?  Maximizing across 2-3-4 monitors at the least?  And last but not least.. why why why can't we reverse our history brush to fix areas we flubbed?   More flexible hardware support to keep up with modern hardware?  Maybe include a performance benchmark so we can see how our hardware selections/setup affects the overall picture?  And why is the price for a new copy still so 1990's?  Are we forever going to be expected to make up for the third world pirates..
Title: Re: Photoshop CS6 public beta
Post by: jrp on March 23, 2012, 07:00:24 pm
Lynda.com has a very good series of videos that are currently free.  http://www.lynda.com/Photoshop-tutorials/Photoshop-CS6-Beta-Preview/97406-2.html

A good tour of the new features, including the remaining quirks.

Nothing much for photographers.   Mainly some refinements / random interface changes, depending on your point of view.
Title: Re: Photoshop CS6 public beta
Post by: bill t. on March 23, 2012, 07:23:28 pm
Lotsa nice little touches in CS6.  For instance, click on a mask symbol in the layers stack and you have non-destructive, fully reversible feathering instantly available.  For me, that's worth the upgrade.  Looks like the biggest feature in 6 is just that it that adds a lot of convenience stuff.

Now if right-clicking in dialogues like Selective Color and Hue Saturation would simply zero out a slider, I would be completely happy.  Except for maybe also having the Arrow drag around an unobtrusive display of the RGB values of whatever pixel it was pointing at.
 
And LR still doesn't do panos.
Title: Re: Photoshop CS6 public beta
Post by: rickk on March 23, 2012, 07:47:30 pm
After just an hour of playing with some old problem images, I'm sold. The engineers have performed more magic in the depths of the code. The ability to open some nasty shadows without obvious side-effects is one of those apparent refinements that could make the upgrade worthwhile all by itself (presumably the same capability exists in LR4 -- just haven't opened these same test cases in the new Lightroom yet). The fixes for panos demo'd in the lynda.com videos sound like another winner.

Regards,

Rick
Title: Re: Photoshop CS6 public beta
Post by: louoates on March 23, 2012, 08:48:57 pm
I've never regretted upgrading Photoshop. I've always found the new version to quickly become indispensable.
Title: Re: Photoshop CS6 public beta
Post by: Farmer on March 23, 2012, 10:00:54 pm
The breadth of the things that have been tweaked, upgraded, enhanced, revised and added is really significant.  Even under the hood type things like 64-bit for Bridge, which don't appear like much on the surface, are substantial code changes and pave the way for future enhancements.
Title: Re: Photoshop CS6 public beta
Post by: tsjanik on March 24, 2012, 12:07:21 pm
After playing with it for an hour, I'm very impressed especially  with ACR and Bridge.  I never have learned LR, since until last year I was working from film scans mostly and saw no real advantage over PS with TIFF files, this lowers my motivation to learn LR even more.
Title: Re: Photoshop CS6 public beta
Post by: shotworldwide on March 24, 2012, 03:57:46 pm
As I work with huge files I need fast performance. Saving on the background is a nice future within new Photoshop.

I prefer manual work over automatic tools so I will stay with Photoshop & ACR. I tried new Lightroom Beta version but I didn't enjoy working with this software. I just used same tools like in ACR and didn't touch the rest.

----------------------------
http://shotworldwide.com
Title: Re: Photoshop CS6 public beta
Post by: Craig Lamson on March 25, 2012, 08:09:47 am
Anyone having problems with the crop tool?

With CS 5 and all older versions pressing enter finished the crop and removed the tool from the image.  I can't make that work in the beta.
Title: Re: Photoshop CS6 public beta
Post by: kjkahn on March 25, 2012, 10:52:49 am
Anyone having problems with the crop tool?

With CS 5 and all older versions pressing enter finished the crop and removed the tool from the image.  I can't make that work in the beta.

I think this video will explain the advantage of the new non-destructive crop tool and why the tool remains.

http://www.lynda.com/home/Player.aspx?lpk4=101527&playChapter=False

Ken
Title: Re: Photoshop CS6 public beta
Post by: Craig Lamson on March 25, 2012, 08:14:03 pm
I think this video will explain the advantage of the new non-destructive crop tool and why the tool remains.

http://www.lynda.com/home/Player.aspx?lpk4=101527&playChapter=False

Ken

Can it be turned off?  I'll take  the old method.
Title: Re: Photoshop CS6 public beta
Post by: smahn on March 26, 2012, 12:24:31 am
Pathing (pen tool) is still very difficult against grays. When will be able to change the path color on the fly?

Changing a layer's name is still such a chore, especially with a stylus, where double clicking with exactitude is challenging. How about anywhere above or below the name opens activates it rather than calling up layer styles, which can continue to reside to the right of the name or at the bottom of the layers pallet?
Title: Re: Photoshop CS6 public beta
Post by: tom b on March 26, 2012, 01:05:25 am
Pathing (pen tool) is still very difficult against grays. When will be able to change the path color on the fly?

Changing a layer's name is still such a chore, especially with a stylus, where double clicking with exactitude is challenging. How about anywhere above or below the name opens activates it rather than calling up layer styles, which can continue to reside to the right of the name or at the bottom of the layers pallet?

Option/alt plus double clicking on the layer thumbnail will let you change the layer name.

For the pen tool just duplicate the layer and change its tonality so that you can see what is happening then delete the duplicate layer.

Cheers,
Title: Re: Photoshop CS6 public beta
Post by: Wayne Fox on March 26, 2012, 01:44:08 am
Anyone having problems with the crop tool?

With CS 5 and all older versions pressing enter finished the crop and removed the tool from the image.  I can't make that work in the beta.
basically they just put LR's crop tool in PS.  It's may be weird to get used to but it is way better than the old crop tool.  Key is to toggle the check box is you want to actually crop, or just turn the tool off if you want to retain the entire image but worked with the cropped portion.
Title: Re: Photoshop CS6 public beta
Post by: tived on March 26, 2012, 03:07:20 am
I am I the only one who see no need for LR?

Photoshop & Bridge does what I expect them to do, cataloging is done with Media Pro/iView/Expression or whatever its called these days ;-)

Now, I have bought the latest LR tut video as i am curious, as to what all the fuss is all about - maybe when I see these I may change my mind - but as I do retouching for others, PS is definately my tool of choice.

Thanks

Henrik
Title: Re: Photoshop CS6 public beta
Post by: Tony Jay on March 26, 2012, 04:07:04 am
The main issue about LR is the integrated package.

Magnificent databasing, organization, searching etc.
Develop has nothing different in terms of effects but is all done with parametric editing (no pixels harmed during this production).
Intuitive print module - sooo much easier to print from (now that soft proofing can be done in LR4 this feature alone is worth the price of the package).
Slide show module and web module for those that need them.
Map module for those that need geotagging.
Book module will likely continue to evolve into an even more robust feature allowing web-based publication and book production.

Don't get me wrong - I use PS for several reasons including HDR, merging, stacks, etc - but LR is most emphatically the cornerstone of my digital workflow. I enjoy PS but feel that LR is fundamental.

There are many different packages out there that when their functionality is combined can sort of emulate what LR does but there is NO other integrated package to match LR.

For the price I would buy it and learn it and then see how you might integrate it into your workflow.

My $0.2 worth.

Regards

Tony Jay
Title: Re: Photoshop CS6 public beta
Post by: john beardsworth on March 26, 2012, 04:43:12 am
Can it [new crop] be turned off?  I'll take  the old method.

The new mode is vastly superior, and you're better off spending time getting used to it. But yes you can switch it off - go to the little cogwheel button and choose classic mode.

John
Title: Re: Photoshop CS6 public beta
Post by: tived on March 26, 2012, 05:17:33 am
Thanks Tony,
I will definately give it try, I am trying to find some time
to get to view the tutorial video in peace and quiet.

Henrik
Title: Re: Photoshop CS6 public beta
Post by: Craig Lamson on March 26, 2012, 06:15:09 am
basically they just put LR's crop tool in PS.  It's may be weird to get used to but it is way better than the old crop tool.  Key is to toggle the check box is you want to actually crop, or just turn the tool off if you want to retain the entire image but worked with the cropped portion.

Thanks,

I'll mess with it a bit but I'm really quite comfortable with the old crop and it fits my workflow for production images.  Change is not always a good thing.

Added on edit.

I see you that even in classic mode you still need one more step to get the crop markers gone after hitting enter. One more step is not an improvement, at least for me, its a bug.

I understand changing the software...they need to do something to somewhat justify the cost of an upgrade.  However changing a well established workflow item with no way to revert to the prior method is is bit discomforting.

And its a deal breaker for me.
Title: Re: Photoshop CS6 public beta
Post by: Chris_Brown on March 26, 2012, 12:47:46 pm
Changing a layer's name is still such a chore, especially with a stylus, where double clicking with exactitude is challenging.

My wish list has the ability to rename the layer within the layer styles dialogue box.
Title: Re: Photoshop CS6 public beta
Post by: tsjanik on March 26, 2012, 10:10:53 pm
I am I the only one who see no need for LR?...............


No. 
Title: Re: Photoshop CS6 public beta
Post by: Schewe on March 26, 2012, 10:56:09 pm
I am I the only one who see no need for LR?

No, but you may be in the minority...

(you might want to re-evaluate your position as many/most photographers have indeed seen the benefit)
Title: Re: Photoshop CS6 public beta
Post by: tom b on March 27, 2012, 12:04:08 am
I've been using Photoshop for 15 years now in my work as an illustrator/graphic artist. Although it's called Photoshop it is much more than a photo editing tool. The below illustration and cartoon by David and Tim were both done using a scanner, Wacom tablet and Photoshop. Photoshop is not just for photographers, there are lots of other uses for it.

Like most employees, 6 months or so after an upgrade I would have an IT worker come along and install the upgrade or just as often they would wheel in a new computer in with the upgrade already installed on it.

(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-TiSBk7M-2Ro/T3E1B-mTrkI/AAAAAAAABEY/qkd2-_L4cI0/s1600/david.jpg)

(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-nWxvrXTJRMw/T3E1PGuc6KI/AAAAAAAABEg/amZe9vvvfI4/s1600/tim.jpg)

Cheers,
Title: Re: Photoshop CS6 public beta
Post by: Craig Lamson on March 27, 2012, 07:14:21 am
No, but you may be in the minority...

(you might want to re-evaluate your position as many/most photographers have indeed seen the benefit)

Its nice to be in the minority...

Lightroom makes nice web galleries at least....
Title: Re: Photoshop CS6 public beta
Post by: Les Sparks on March 27, 2012, 11:31:20 am
I can't decide if LR is needed or not (I have it). Bridge has better search capabilities than LR. LR printing is easier than PhotoShop. In LR I don't need to make copies of photos for different uses I just store different metadata. PhotoShop is needed for fine tuning some images but not needed for all. So if I had to choose, I'd drop LR but would miss it.
Les
Title: Re: Photoshop CS6 public beta
Post by: Ben Rubinstein on March 27, 2012, 11:41:45 am
Bridge search was a slow painful nightmare in the past compared to LR, would be very interested to see if it has been improved. Not installed the beta yet though, up to my eyes in a huge project.
Title: Re: Photoshop CS6 public beta
Post by: RFPhotography on March 27, 2012, 02:02:11 pm
Can it be turned off?  I'll take  the old method.

Check the 'Delete Cropped Pixels' box at the top of the screen and that should give you your old crop functionality.  You can also click on the gear wheel at the top and check Use Classic Mode which reverts to the old style crop tool.
Title: Re: Photoshop CS6 public beta
Post by: RFPhotography on March 27, 2012, 02:06:36 pm
I am I the only one who see no need for LR?

Probably not.

Quote
Photoshop & Bridge does what I expect them to do, cataloging is done with Media Pro/iView/Expression or whatever its called these days ;-)

You've simply adopted a different workflow using different tools to achieve a similar end result.  So you may not have a need for LR in your workflow but for others who choose a different path, the toolset will be different.
Title: Re: Photoshop CS6 public beta
Post by: john beardsworth on March 27, 2012, 03:58:01 pm
Bridge has better search capabilities than LR.
Only if your search is quite limited. Bridge's Find dialog is good, but Lightroom is much better at searching through larger numbers of pictures across folders / drives.
Title: Re: Photoshop CS6 public beta
Post by: Tony Jay on March 27, 2012, 06:21:38 pm
Can't believe that anyone would think that the search/databasing of Bridge is better(!) than LR.

Regards

Tony Jay
Title: Re: Photoshop CS6 public beta
Post by: Craig Lamson on March 27, 2012, 08:47:18 pm
Check the 'Delete Cropped Pixels' box at the top of the screen and that should give you your old crop functionality.  You can also click on the gear wheel at the top and check Use Classic Mode which reverts to the old style crop tool.

Tried that but it still won't release the crop markers on the photo with the enter key.  I have to select another tool to release the image and then I get a dialog box asking if I want to crop. :(

Not production friendly.
Title: Re: Photoshop CS6 public beta
Post by: jjj on March 27, 2012, 10:12:57 pm
Can't believe that anyone would think that the search/databasing of Bridge is better(!) than LR.
The filtering UI in Bridge is smarter. The LR filtering is a poor copy of Br's adaptive filter panel. But because LR is a DB and Br a File Browser, Br will always be slower at searching through large folder numbers. Swings, roundabouts.
Title: Re: Photoshop CS6 public beta
Post by: jjj on March 27, 2012, 10:17:44 pm
Tried that but it still won't release the crop markers on the photo with the enter key.  I have to select another tool to release the image and then I get a dialog box asking if I want to crop. :(

Not production friendly.
It works in a slightly different way from before, which may take some adjusting, but I'm so glad PS has adopted LR's way superior way of cropping. Been asking for that ever since LR appeared.
You may find some useful info here (http://www.lynda.com/Photoshop-tutorials/Photoshop-CS6-Beta-Preview/97406-2.html?utm_medium=viral&utm_source=facebook&utm_campaign=adobecs6beta-likeusonfacebook) which may help you understand why it works differently.
Title: Re: Photoshop CS6 public beta
Post by: Schewe on March 27, 2012, 10:48:20 pm
Tried that but it still won't release the crop markers on the photo with the enter key.

But it does commit the crop and when you change tools you don't get the crop dialog do you?
Title: Re: Photoshop CS6 public beta
Post by: Craig Lamson on March 27, 2012, 11:29:47 pm
But it does commit the crop and when you change tools you don't get the crop dialog do you?

It depends.

If , while in classic mode, you do an enter key to crop, the handles still remain. 

IF you go directly to the toolbar and select a new tool there is no dialog box.

HOWEVER if you click anywhere else before selecting a new tool you get a dialog box asking if you want to crop.
Title: Re: Photoshop CS6 public beta
Post by: Craig Lamson on March 27, 2012, 11:31:43 pm
It works in a slightly different way from before, which may take some adjusting, but I'm so glad PS has adopted LR's way superior way of cropping. Been asking for that ever since LR appeared.
You may find some useful info here (http://www.lynda.com/Photoshop-tutorials/Photoshop-CS6-Beta-Preview/97406-2.html?utm_medium=viral&utm_source=facebook&utm_campaign=adobecs6beta-likeusonfacebook) which may help you understand why it works differently.

I've seen the video, and ...for me... I prefer the old way.  Clearly your mileage may vary. 
Title: Re: Photoshop CS6 public beta
Post by: MHMG on March 28, 2012, 07:17:37 am

...Allow us to edit ICC profiles too. Been asking for that for at least a decade. I bet Adobe could get the Kodak Custom Color ICC technology for pennies on the dollar.

Give me a curve dialog to affect saturation so I can desatruate shadows. Or more than four sampler point (ACR has twice that). Let me read out more than just two color models at a time. Improve soft proofing for CMYK. Those are just a few features that I think would make the next Photoshop a compelling upgrade for hard core LR users.

What else?

I'd like the info tool to display the output (proof) color values in LAB, not just RGB or CMYK. Then we would finally be able to know precisely how source color is converting to destination color without having to resort to slow workarounds like a temporary conversion of the rendered output file to LAB colorspace /w absolute rendering.

cheers,
Mark
http://www.aardenburg-imaging.com
Title: Re: Photoshop CS6 public beta
Post by: RFPhotography on April 02, 2012, 05:35:08 pm
I haven't looked through all the responses again but don't recall this being brought up previously.

In Lightroom, when you hover over one of the exposure controls, the main area affected on the histogram is shaded.  I know this wasn't the case for ACR in the past but wonder why Adobe hasn't made this change in ACR 7 with the new 2012PV.  It's actually a nice little visual cue.
Title: Re: Photoshop CS6 public beta
Post by: stamper on April 03, 2012, 03:20:46 am
I've seen the video, and ...for me... I prefer the old way.  Clearly your mileage may vary. 

A good artisan adapts? :)
Title: Re: Photoshop CS6 public beta
Post by: Craig Lamson on April 03, 2012, 07:57:17 pm
A good artisan adapts? :)

I've adapted to a lot of things and I'm not completely adverse to change, but I'm really happy with my current production workflow.  And for my work I don't see the change as an improvement.

I'm not everyone, so my needs and wants may not align with someone else.
Title: Re: Photoshop CS6 public beta
Post by: Schewe on April 03, 2012, 10:12:46 pm
I've adapted to a lot of things and I'm not completely adverse to change, but I'm really happy with my current production workflow.  And for my work I don't see the change as an improvement.

Uh huh...well the release of CS6 doesn't magically cause your CS5 to quite working...adapt or not, but the new CS6 is different(and there's zero YOU can do to alter that vector). Upgrade, don't upgrade, you choose. If you don't, well, you prolly lose...
Title: Re: Photoshop CS6 public beta
Post by: Craig Lamson on April 03, 2012, 11:27:41 pm
Uh huh...well the release of CS6 doesn't magically cause your CS5 to quite working...adapt or not, but the new CS6 is different(and there's zero YOU can do to alter that vector). Upgrade, don't upgrade, you choose. If you don't, well, you prolly lose...

Wow, that's really deep Schewe, I never would have thought of that.  Thanks .  [/sacrasm]
Title: Re: Photoshop CS6 public beta
Post by: Schewe on April 03, 2012, 11:35:40 pm
Wow, that's really deep Schewe, I never would have thought of that.  Thanks .  [/sacrasm]

You are welcome...just wanted to point out that some peoples' opinions may matter and others' opinions not so much. If you do or don't like the CS6 beta features or functions, you have a choice...upgrade or don't. But nothing the VAST majority of users' complaints will have zero impact. Just a fact of life...some people have influence, some don't. Useful feedback is useful but don't expect wholesale changes...ain't gonna happen.
Title: Re: Photoshop CS6 public beta
Post by: Craig Lamson on April 04, 2012, 09:14:48 am
You are welcome...just wanted to point out that some peoples' opinions may matter and others' opinions not so much. If you do or don't like the CS6 beta features or functions, you have a choice...upgrade or don't. But nothing the VAST majority of users' complaints will have zero impact. Just a fact of life...some people have influence, some don't. Useful feedback is useful but don't expect wholesale changes...ain't gonna happen.

Wow, once again such deep thoughts, and again thanks so much.  [/sarcasm]

Title: Re: Photoshop CS6 public beta
Post by: smahn on April 10, 2012, 04:11:53 pm
Option/alt plus double clicking on the layer thumbnail will let you change the layer name.

For the pen tool just duplicate the layer and change its tonality so that you can see what is happening then delete the duplicate layer.

Cheers,

I appreciate your help, unfortunately "Option/alt plus double clicking on the layer thumbnail" is bringing up the layer styles dialog for me, same as CS 5.

Ditto for the path workaround, same convoluted workaround as for CS 5.

Come on Adobe, just do it.
Title: Re: Photoshop CS6 public beta
Post by: bill t. on April 11, 2012, 12:10:25 am
FWIW have recently experienced a few CS6 program crashes and one PC screen-of-death using the new CS6 crop tool, when cropping a particular 4.5gb file.  Just before the SOD It looked like I had got into some mode where the crop was being copied onto a new window or layer as I was cropping...or something.  Then kabang.  Didn't have time to really see what was going on, but it was interesting.  So be warned.  I presume this will be fixed on the release.

We have parted for now.  But I can still remember the warm embrace of the non-destructive layer mask feathering, way cool.
Title: Re: Photoshop CS6 public beta
Post by: stamper on April 11, 2012, 04:00:20 am
FWIW have recently experienced a few CS6 program crashes and one PC screen-of-death using the new CS6 crop tool, when cropping a particular 4.5gb file. 

Is that a typo? 4.5 gb file. No wonder it crashed. :-\
Title: Re: Photoshop CS6 public beta
Post by: tived on April 11, 2012, 04:13:21 am
FWIW have recently experienced a few CS6 program crashes and one PC screen-of-death using the new CS6 crop tool, when cropping a particular 4.5gb file. 

Is that a typo? 4.5 gb file. No wonder it crashed. :-\

why would that be a typo? these are my normal files :-)

depending on the system config, that 4.5GB could be just fine, but something else could have caused the crash! I would be very sad if CS6 would crash with large file sizes, and or files with many many layers on them, that would to me, render CS6 useless, but I doubt this to be the case.

Henrik
Title: Re: Photoshop CS6 public beta
Post by: stamper on April 11, 2012, 04:27:27 am
I must live in a sheltered world. Is this the file size when loaded into PS? If it is the size after a few edits then cropping at the beginning of the process ( recommended ) would mean a smaller file size further into processing?
Title: Re: Photoshop CS6 public beta
Post by: tived on April 11, 2012, 04:48:09 am
I must live in a sheltered world. Is this the file size when loaded into PS? If it is the size after a few edits then cropping at the beginning of the process ( recommended ) would mean a smaller file size further into processing?

I would not be able to comment on the first part, you could very well be  ;D (sorry jokes apart) <if you really insist on putting yourself out there for comments!> ;) but for people who work with multi-layered files, or high pixel dimentions.

A 4.5GB isn't that hard to achive, you can do your own math, as to how, i have flat files that are 10-14GB in size, which are from stitched panos, some of these were a struggle when i had less ram. You will get there if you work in 16-bit and more so if its in 32-bit. Obviously as you work on a file and start adding layers upon layers the file size will slowly crawl up, if the file size stays at that size when saving depends how you save your file and if you save with compression etc....
But don't let it shake your world, I do have 96gb of ram in the machine now, so its made to handle the load :-) I am about to give CS6 beta a trial run... i'll report back later

I am sure this is all deviating a bit from the actual topic - one persons issue was that he is experiencing crashes, and it happend to be while working on a 4.5GB file, now if we could get more info on that matter, by perhaps look at the memory dump file. Can the error be replicated?

All the best and sorry for the rant

Henrik
Title: Re: Photoshop CS6 public beta
Post by: bill t. on April 11, 2012, 02:37:46 pm
7283 x 14969 pixel stitched pano, 16 bit, 33 fiddly layers.

It crashed on a 8gb machine, as I do not like to test on my larger production machine.

Normally I would have flattened the file, rebooted PS, and reloaded the file before trying anything like cropping or sharpening.  But I didn't, it was late.

I'm not especially worried about this since CS5 can handle that file just fine, even at 8gb.  CS6 does seem to use more ram than CS5, and dragging along things like Mini Bridge etc may or may not be a good thing for some of us.

BTW MiniBridge is pretty glacial in directories full of monster files.

I wonder if the MF guys are getting crashes.

Oh yeah, as long as I'm griping, Adobe you have to restore the little thumbnail preview in the basic File->Open Dialogue!!!!!  It's gone!  And I need it bad!
Title: Re: Photoshop CS6 public beta
Post by: Chris_Brown on April 11, 2012, 10:17:43 pm
Oh yeah, as long as I'm griping, Adobe you have to restore the little thumbnail preview in the basic File->Open Dialogue!!!!!  It's gone!

That's what "Mini-Bridge" is for. yippy.
Title: Re: Photoshop CS6 public beta
Post by: bill t. on April 11, 2012, 10:50:53 pm
That's what "Mini-Bridge" is for. yippy.

I'm thinking I can shoot really exciting time lapse videos of the grass growing while Mini Bridge extracts thumbnails from my folders of big files.

Within a second of invoking CS5 File->Open I can fly through 4 thumbnails per second, regardless of file size, with no pre-crunching required beyond what happened when the file was saved.   Not so in Mini Bridge.

I bet it takes about 2 lines of code to put that old style thumbnail in place.  Please, pretty please.
Title: Re: Photoshop CS6 public beta
Post by: Chris_Brown on April 12, 2012, 12:15:31 am
I'm thinking I can shoot really exciting time lapse videos of the grass growing while Mini Bridge extracts thumbnails from my folders of big files.

I love my lawn, too!

And if you set Bridge's prefs to ignore anything over, say, 50kB, then it will *blip* right across those continent-sized files and show the precious thumbnail (if you have PS prefs to save the magic thumbnail).
Title: Re: Photoshop CS6 public beta
Post by: bill t. on April 12, 2012, 01:01:08 am
And if you set Bridge's prefs to ignore anything over, say, 50kB, then it will *blip* right across those continent-sized files and show the precious thumbnail (if you have PS prefs to save the magic thumbnail).

Oh.  Thanks.  I'm too pretty to be reading manuals.
Title: Re: Photoshop CS6 public beta
Post by: tived on April 12, 2012, 02:59:08 am
Ohh, I set to 10Gb ... Give a little time and it will catch up.
Title: Re: Photoshop CS6 public beta
Post by: Chris_Brown on April 12, 2012, 10:32:43 am
Oh.  Thanks.  I'm too pretty to be reading manuals.

 :D
Title: Re: Photoshop CS6 public beta
Post by: Dinarius on April 13, 2012, 07:33:34 am
I don't want to load CS6 onto my overloaded hard drive.

Could someone please confirm that Adobe Camera Raw is still 0-255/Adobe RGB & hasn't been changed to the Lightroom farce that is %/Melissa RGB?

Thanks in advance. ;-)

D.
Title: Re: Photoshop CS6 public beta
Post by: Chris_Brown on April 13, 2012, 10:27:28 am
Could someone please confirm that Adobe Camera Raw is still 0-255/Adobe RGB & hasn't been changed to the Lightroom farce that is %/Melissa RGB?

I don't know who Melissa is, but she doesn't care about ACR.

Lightroom uses percentages because the output profile has not been selected and soft-proofed by the user. ACR provides RGB values because you must set the output space to something prior to using the program.
Title: Re: Photoshop CS6 public beta
Post by: Dinarius on April 13, 2012, 11:17:05 am
I don't know who Melissa is, but she doesn't care about ACR.

Lightroom uses percentages because the output profile has not been selected and soft-proofed by the user. ACR provides RGB values because you must set the output space to something prior to using the program.

Which is why ACR is very much Pro and LR is Prosumer (at best), IMHO.

Thanks.

D.
Title: Re: Photoshop CS6 public beta
Post by: stamper on April 13, 2012, 11:22:06 am
Does that mean I have to go back to using ACR to boost my placing in the world of photography?
Title: Re: Photoshop CS6 public beta
Post by: Dinarius on April 13, 2012, 11:30:09 am
Hah!  ;D

I just wish that LR took colour as seriously as ACR does. It doesn't, in my opinion. (Melissa RGB??  ??? ) In every other respect, LR is outstanding.

D.
Title: Re: Photoshop CS6 public beta
Post by: digitaldog on April 13, 2012, 11:35:12 am
Could someone please confirm that Adobe Camera Raw is still 0-255/Adobe RGB & hasn't been changed to the Lightroom farce that is %/Melissa RGB?
Which is why ACR is very much Pro and LR is Prosumer (at best), IMHO.

Farce? What has the encoding scale have to do with anything? The data isn’t in 256 steps yet you feel a 0-255 scale is professional but 0-100% isn’t?

FWIW, you can produce 0-255 values in LR4 for Melissa RGB while soft proofing if that is somehow useful. I don’t see how a value of 255 or 100% to define the whitest white is in any way more useful or less professional than the other. In fact, 100% white, 0 black seems to make more sense considering the actual data. Equal values of either is neutral.

Just because someone was brought up with one scale, doesn’t make the others inferior. The metric system, (which I would submit is more intuitive than the US standard system) confuses those brought up with the US system. The opposite should be true. That doesn’t prove that a mile is any less a professional metric to describe a distance than a kilometer!

In Photoshop, 24 bit CMYK is still 0-255 data but represented as 0-100% CMYK ink. That’s logical? Try telling an old time prepress guy that using those values are silly or not professional despite the actual data.

ACR has never been 0-255/Adobe RGB. The primaries are ProPhoto RGB but with a linear gamma encoding. The histogram and numbers are the same primaries but with an sRGB tone curve. You can build this as an ICC profile in Photoshop’s Color Settings, save off an ICC profile and load it into LR4 to get those beloved 0-255 values. Now are you going to export that data in MelissaRGB? And considering that any working space, Melissa RGB, Adobe RGB (1998), ProPhoto will most likely get converted to another space (output or maybe sRGB for web), the numbers are going to change. So what?
Title: Re: Photoshop CS6 public beta
Post by: stamper on April 13, 2012, 11:45:30 am
Hah!  ;D

I just wish that LR took colour as seriously as ACR does.


Fortunately nobody is taking you seriously.  ;)
Title: Re: Photoshop CS6 public beta
Post by: digitaldog on April 13, 2012, 12:02:36 pm
Fortunately nobody is taking you seriously.  ;)

Based on his 'logic" and mindset, that was what I was going to say but didn't. Thanks.
Title: Re: Photoshop CS6 public beta
Post by: Colorwave on April 13, 2012, 12:07:33 pm
0 to 1000 is the most professional, plus the colors are much richer!
Title: Re: Photoshop CS6 public beta
Post by: Eric Myrvaagnes on April 13, 2012, 12:53:00 pm
0 to 1000 is the most professional, plus the colors are much richer!
+1000 :D  :D
Title: Re: Photoshop CS6 public beta printing issues
Post by: tvalleau on April 15, 2012, 06:09:53 pm
Heads up: for some of us, CS6 is a step backwards. There is no way to send an image thru to the printer unmanaged. The old technique of matching the document to the profile is refused. To further make the point, Adobe has removed what it deems inappropriate profiles from the printer profile list. For example, as it now stands, it's not possible to print using Piezography, which requires a Gray Gamma 2.2 document, sent off unaltered to  Quad Tone Rip. (Setting the dialog to "printer manages colors" doesn't work either, since QTR then ignores its own curves, and every print is therefore identical.)

Neither does saving as a TIFF work since ACPU simply crashes when trying to print  to QTR.

While I can print to my other printers, the one I have dedicated to Piezography is useless under CS6. The only solution I can find is to continue to use CS5.

There are lots of wonderful tweaks in CS6, to be sure, and I've been anxiously awaiting its release so I could buy it... but now I have to wonder why I'd buy a photo program I can't use to print !

As I've noted on the Piezography Yahoo group, I'd LOVE to have someone make me look the fool in public by showing me how to print a Piezograph thru CS6.

(And don't get me started on why Adobe insists on dumbing-down a supposedly professional program to the point where professionals can no longer use it. Isn't that what PS Elements is for?   Grrrr.)

Ain't computers wunnerful?  :-)
Title: Re: Photoshop CS6 public beta
Post by: Farmer on April 15, 2012, 06:50:47 pm
I think you need to realise that you're a very, very small subgroup of a small subgroup of PS users.  No disrespect intended, there's nothing wrong or invalid about your workflow, it's just that to cater to the demands of the colour management paradigm being imposed by Apple (and being supported by Microsoft) and which suits the vast, vast majority of users, some changes have been made.

Let me ask, for example, if it's Adobe's fault that ACPU crashes doing something it wasn't designed to do?

I would suggest that asking for support from QTR would be the way to go - it's hanging off Photoshop, not the other way around.

I don't think it's fair to say that Adobe has dumbed things down - they've simply reacted to vendor (OS) and market demands and changes.  Of course, this is a Public Beta, so letting Adobe know where you're having difficulties would also be useful, so if you haven't already (and you probably have), then I'd suggest sending them details or posting on the Adobe forums as well as following up on the QTR side.
Title: Re: Photoshop CS6 public beta
Post by: digitaldog on April 15, 2012, 07:01:12 pm
We are very fortunate that Adobe built a utility to produce prints for a task the profiling software vendors should have done in the first place.
Title: Re: Photoshop CS6 public beta
Post by: tvalleau on April 15, 2012, 07:06:22 pm
Thanks for the prompt reply, but I'll point out that the whole point of ACPU -is- to send an image to the printer without modification. That's what Adobe gave us specifically for that purpose, since many of us (not a "very, very small subgroup of a subgroup") need to make profiles. That's what Adobe themselves suggested I use to get around the fact that CS6 can no longer send unaltered data to the printer.

I'm not so sure that's a minor issue, actually.

And, I'm afraid that I simply cannot accept the "market pressures" argument when dealing with a professional tool. It's too convenient a reply, and is used for everything these days. Sure, mass marketing is the be-all and end-all in some eyes. After all, it's about the money, isn't it? And, even if it is "reacting to vendor and market demands" that doesn't mean it isn't dumbing-down!  :-)

But at $700 - $1000, I don't want the latest iteration of a tool I use to make a living, offered up with -less- features than it had before.

Yes (thanks) I have noted this on the QTR group; The Piezography group and the Adobe Forums (whence I got the "use ACPU" advice.)

But I'd have thought that here on LL, the complete loss of the ability to send a file unaltered to the printer would be at least of modest interest... not to mention that I'll wager there are more than a couple of Piezography users lurking about...  :-)

Thanks again  for the prompt and courteous reply.
Title: Re: Photoshop CS6 public beta
Post by: tvalleau on April 15, 2012, 07:16:02 pm
Quote
We are very fortunate that Adobe built a utility to produce prints for a task the profiling software vendors should have done in the first place.

Indeed we are. Too bad it crashes with a -2582 error.

Perhaps I'm simply in the wrong venue here. I just assumed (and we all know about assumptions...) that this forum would have a fair share of Piezography users, who would be interested to know that their dedicated printers and thousands of dollars invested are useless with CS6 until something is done.

As a programmer, I've suggested possible work arounds to Roy Harrington (who wrote QTR) and have engaged Jon Cone in the conversation as well. I have just spent 48 hours and several hundred $$ trying to find a solution, to no avail.

I'm as big a fan of Photoshop as the next guy. I sell my photos as part of my living. But I'm not an apologist for Adobe, and find their increasingly "any color as long as it's black" attitude disconcerting.

Thanks again.
Title: Re: Photoshop CS6 public beta
Post by: digitaldog on April 15, 2012, 07:24:55 pm
As a programmer, I've suggested possible work arounds to Roy Harrington (who wrote QTR) and have engaged Jon Cone in the conversation as well. I have just spent 48 hours and several hundred $$ trying to find a solution, to no avail.

And I’d submit it is Roy who needs to come up with a solution, not Adobe. Same with X-rite and others who have a product that requires their targets be printed in a very non confirming fashion.
Title: Re: Photoshop CS6 public beta
Post by: tvalleau on April 15, 2012, 07:42:14 pm
And I have no argument with that point, Andy.  But you are missing my point: why -remove- capabilities from the software? Is there some technical, programmatic reason behind it, or are they just trying to cut down on the number of support calls? Are they "saving me from myself" as seems to be the trend these days?

The issue here is art and their tool. There are many reasons I might want to send unmodified data thru to the printer. Perhaps, artistically, I happen to -like- the results of assigning my monitor profile to an image and sending it to the printer as a scanner profile. (Ghastly thought, I know...)

What I have not heard yet is a rational -reason- for the change. Not on the Adobe forum from Adobe employees, or anywhere else. You're well connected, so perhaps there's something you know that I don't.

My point certainly is the several thousand Piezography users this is going to affect... but it's also that a useful technique has been removed from a professional tool.

If Adobe is not willing to put back the capability to send the same profile as the document, (and they emphatically are not interested in doing that, as I've been told) then obviously it falls back to the third-party vendors to fix the situation.

No argument from me on that.  

Perhaps I'm the only person here who uses Piezography... in which case, it served no point to make this post (as a heads up) in the first place. I'm not here to argue, but to discuss.  :-)
Title: Re: Photoshop CS6 public beta
Post by: Schewe on April 15, 2012, 09:06:21 pm
If Adobe is not willing to put back the capability to send the same profile as the document, (and they emphatically are not interested in doing that, as I've been told) then obviously it falls back to the third-party vendors to fix the situation.

No argument from me on that.  

Good, then it's settled...Adobe will adhere to the Apple API's (and Windows which s a bit less draconian) and do the right thing for the 99% of the user base. Using a 3rd party rip with non-standard inks isn't mainstream. I seriously doubt there even 1K users that CS6 has bitten because of print pipeline changes...it's gotta be less that 1% worldwide, do you disagree?

Using non-standard inks is a hack. Any way you look at it (even if it's a good hack) that impacts a very small number of users. Those that have designed the hack that used to work will just have to re-design their hacks. That's what the CS6 "beta" is all about–letting users and developers see what's happening.
Title: Re: Photoshop CS6 public beta
Post by: tvalleau on April 15, 2012, 09:51:53 pm
Do I disagree? No, Jeff, I don't disagree that the vast majority of people don't use the tool to the full extent possible, and that therefore Adobe has every right to eliminate those users who don't like MacDonalds, or don't drive Fords.

(As a programmer of Apple products for 34 years now, I'm not sure how Application Programming Interfaces have anything to do with code that works fine in CS5 and doesn't work in CS6, on the same system, but I'll leave that alone.)

You're entirely correct that it's a small percentage of people that need to profile their printers or use non-standard inking. Apparently I'm the only one on LL that does.

Photoshop is a wonderful tool, and I admire it as a programmer, and a photographer for 55 years. When I got my first Apple ][ in 1978, I intuited that the world was about to change, and Photoshop has lead the way and been a joy to watch evolve.

CS6 continues that tradition... but it's also sneaking in the "iOS-ification" of software; making it easier for the "vast majority" and to whatever extent that is true, it becomes less useful to professionals.

It's because I care passionately about the software that I hate to see its direction change from professional to consumer. I'd much rather see all the coddling happen in Photoshop Elements, and the CS tools continue to expand toward more versatility instead of less.

But I'm talking as a user, and you're talking about marketing, and that conversation could go on for years without resolution (other, of course, than that the marketeers always win.   :-)

I'm sorry to see the change as it lessens the value of the tool, and I'm sorry I bothered to comment on it here. This was obviously the wrong place. (Too many Adobe employees...  :-)


(BTW, thanks to you for all your own contributions to the art and understanding of digital photography over the years. As a programmer, I found it pretty easy to understand, but you do a good job of explaining too, and many of your works line my bookshelves. Without your work with Bruce Fraser, I'd likely not have landed a job teaching digital photography at graduate school, nor had my works rise to the level allowing them to be presented at The Center for Photographic Art. I am in your debt.)

That said, I'll still cast my vote for making PS a more nitty-gritty professional level tool, and splitting off the "softer" software for Joe Sixpack.   :-)

Now: I'm off to see what I can do to get Roy or Jon to step up to the plate, and make it easier on the 1% of us to make the switch to CS6 !
Title: Re: Photoshop CS6 public beta
Post by: Farmer on April 16, 2012, 01:31:31 am
ACPU wasn't designed to send unmanaged data in general, it was specifically designed for targets to be sent to the printer through the standard driver.  Sending it somewhere else (i.e. to QTR) wasn't in the design spec.

The changing colour management paradigm to which Adobe is adhering was implimented by Apple and Microsoft.

The options were removed because it's too hard to keep supporting it within the PS framework - any changes to the OS require changes to PS - that's a big deal.  With ACPU, changes need only be made to that app.

I was fortunate enough to have a lengthy conversation with Dave P. from Adobe on the topic.  Once CS6 is bedded down, it's more likely there will be bandwidth to look for updates or changes to ACPU, but as Andrew and Jeff have mentioned, the onus really is on the vendors of the add-ons.

And, I still maintain that it's a very, very small subset of a subset of users involved.  That doesn't mean you should be ignored, but you can understand that priority is going to be based on demand.
Title: Re: Photoshop CS6 public beta
Post by: tvalleau on April 16, 2012, 01:38:10 am
Quote
ACPU wasn't designed to send unmanaged data in general, it was specifically designed for targets to be sent to the printer through the standard driver.  Sending it somewhere else (i.e. to QTR) wasn't in the design spec.

Aha! So the advice I got on the Adobe forum (to use it) was incorrect.

Thank you for your thoughts, which confirm those of others here. I appreciate your courtesy in taking the time to reply.
Title: Re: Photoshop CS6 public beta
Post by: Schewe on April 16, 2012, 01:45:27 am
I was fortunate enough to have a lengthy conversation with Dave P. from Adobe on the topic.  Once CS6 is bedded down, it's more likely there will be bandwidth to look for updates or changes to ACPU, but as Andrew and Jeff have mentioned, the onus really is on the vendors of the add-ons.

Dave would LOVE to be able to extend and expand on the Photoshop Print dlog..but, he's really not in a position to jump over the standards that are being enforced.

There has been a lot of effort in the work to produce a standard practice regarding print output. There is a standard he's trying to work towards called "Best Print Practices" that all of the OS and print manufacturers have agree to adhere to.

Yes, it adversely impacts a small subset of users (such as those using the Advanced B&W Epson workflow). But that's life...and it's not Photoshop's "fault". It's the reality that Photoshop must live within given the limitations of the print pipeline as dictated by Mac or Widows print processing pipelines.
Title: Re: Photoshop CS6 public beta
Post by: tvalleau on April 16, 2012, 02:20:58 am
Thank you, Jeff. That's the kind of explanation that is useful.
Title: Re: Photoshop CS6 public beta
Post by: Farmer on April 16, 2012, 04:49:51 am
Aha! So the advice I got on the Adobe forum (to use it) was incorrect.

Thank you for your thoughts, which confirm those of others here. I appreciate your courtesy in taking the time to reply.

Hmmm - incorrect?   Maybe not.  There's nothing wrong with finding new uses for things, but we just have to accept that sometimes those workflows will break when changes are made because they're not specifically supported.

I think it's a really conversation that you've started and I suspect that like me, many people appreciate it - this is how we get good information out and thoughts and ideas discussed that often find their way back to the right people :-)
Title: Re: Photoshop CS6 public beta
Post by: Rhossydd on April 16, 2012, 06:17:43 am
.Adobe will adhere to the Apple API's (and Windows which s a bit less draconian) and do the right thing for the 99% of the user base.
That's not quite correct is it ?
It's only the Mac users that have had their OS change how CM works that needed Adobe to change things, not "99%" of the PS's overall user base.

Removing the 'no color management' workflow was unnecessary and unhelpful for Windows users.

Somewhat ironic that one of the boasts about CS6 is that they have returned some features that they'd removed from CS5 !
Title: Re: Photoshop CS6 public beta
Post by: Farmer on April 16, 2012, 06:31:11 am
No, that's not correct.

Windows has the same path, they just don't prevent a user from overriding it, for now, but the workflow that it is trying to follow is valid for the vast, vast majority of users and removing other options will help more people than it hinders by a huge margin.

Which features have returned that were removed from CS5?
Title: Re: Photoshop CS6 public beta
Post by: Rhossydd on April 16, 2012, 06:47:38 am
Which features have returned that were removed from CS5?
Can't remember the fully details, things like the contact sheet facility and something else, it's all detailed in one of their 'sneek peeks' videos.
Quote
removing other options will help more people than it hinders by a huge margin.
You could probably remove 80% of PS's feature set and make it more usable for most users, oh yes they did that and called it Elements.
If they're making the highest level professional software removing features seems just daft.
Title: Re: Photoshop CS6 public beta
Post by: john beardsworth on April 16, 2012, 07:48:19 am
They didn't remove them - they put them in a better place, Bridge. Now they've listened too much to whiners who couldn't get that into their skulls.
Title: Re: Photoshop CS6 public beta
Post by: digitaldog on April 16, 2012, 09:37:57 am
Removing the 'no color management' workflow was unnecessary and unhelpful for Windows users.

And Windows users of this product are using the no color management option in droves because?
Title: Re: Photoshop CS6 public beta
Post by: RFPhotography on April 16, 2012, 09:58:50 am
Dave would LOVE to be able to extend and expand on the Photoshop Print dlog..but, he's really not in a position to jump over the standards that are being enforced.

There has been a lot of effort in the work to produce a standard practice regarding print output. There is a standard he's trying to work towards called "Best Print Practices" that all of the OS and print manufacturers have agree to adhere to.

Yes, it adversely impacts a small subset of users (such as those using the Advanced B&W Epson workflow). But that's life...and it's not Photoshop's "fault". It's the reality that Photoshop must live within given the limitations of the print pipeline as dictated by Mac or Widows print processing pipelines.

Jeff, could you expand on this?  I've got the CS6 beta installed on a Windows machine and the few ABW profiles I've downloaded from Eric's site are still visible and usable in the print workflow. 
Title: Re: Photoshop CS6 public beta
Post by: Rhossydd on April 16, 2012, 10:00:49 am
And Windows users of this product are using the no color management option in droves because?
They were using it for printing profiling targets amongst other things. You of all people should appreciate that.
Yes, they now offer ACPU, but it famously doesn't print as it should in Windows and Adobe can't be bothered to fix it.
Title: Re: Photoshop CS6 public beta
Post by: digitaldog on April 16, 2012, 10:03:34 am
They were using it for printing profiling targets amongst other things.

Amongst what other things specifically? Cause if they are printing profile targets, then the software generating that target should have provisions to print it! It isn’t Adobe’s headache. Nor the huge majority of Photoshop users who don’t create said targets.

Put the responsibility for printing targets where it belongs.

Other than printing targets, why would Windows users suffer from this lack of functionality? What other applications provide this option and why is Photoshop targeted to having to provide this functionality?

I’ll add that Mac users can print targets using Preview a FREE application that comes with the OS. Does Windows provide anything like this and if not, shouldn’t you guys be bitching at Microsoft?
Title: Re: Photoshop CS6 public beta
Post by: RFPhotography on April 16, 2012, 11:07:33 am
That's not quite correct is it ?
It's only the Mac users that have had their OS change how CM works that needed Adobe to change things, not "99%" of the PS's overall user base.

Removing the 'no color management' workflow was unnecessary and unhelpful for Windows users.

Somewhat ironic that one of the boasts about CS6 is that they have returned some features that they'd removed from CS5 !

I'm not sure why people are griping about this now with CS6 because it was gone in CS5.
Title: Re: Photoshop CS6 public beta
Post by: tvalleau on April 16, 2012, 01:08:41 pm
Quote
I'm not sure why people are griping about this now with CS6 because it was gone in CS5.

Because the work-around (printer-profile matches document-profile) is no longer possible in CS6.
Title: Re: Photoshop CS6 public beta
Post by: digitaldog on April 16, 2012, 01:54:12 pm
Because the work-around (printer-profile matches document-profile) is no longer possible in CS6.

For good reason!

The “null-profile trick” does not work in all situations. At best, it won’t actually conduct a transform, and at worst, it will transform through the profile and back out, compressing the gamut.
 
Use ACPU if you want to print targets. Or Preview on the Mac.
Title: Re: Photoshop CS6 public beta - Piezography work-around
Post by: tvalleau on April 16, 2012, 02:01:45 pm
As noted earlier, ACPU won't work with QTR, and just crashes.

Here's a version of the null-transform that does seem to work for Piezography, (which is concerned only with maintaining the 2.2 gamma, and not any colors) courtesy of Jon Cone:


(I had tried converting to sRGB this weekend, but whatever I chose for a printer profile was not accepted. I did not try Wide Gamut, and that's what worked.)

So:

1) work in Gray Gamma 2.2;
2) convert image to sRGB;
3) choose "Photoshop manages colors"
4) choose "Wide Gamut RGB" as the printer profile

all else as usual.

I ran a couple of prints this morning testing this, and eye-balling the output (compared to known good test prints done thru CS5) it looks correct, and as expected.
Title: Re: Photoshop CS6 public beta - Piezography work-around
Post by: digitaldog on April 16, 2012, 02:06:14 pm
As noted earlier, ACPU won't work with QTR, and just crashes.

And as noted earlier, it is the QTR guys that need to form a solution for printing their targets. That the QTR guys expect every one of their users to own Photoshop is kind of stupid IMHO.

As much as I can lay it on X-Rite, at least you can print targets from their applications. They kind of get the concept that this kind of printing is their responsibility, not Adobe’s and specifically with a single product.
Title: Re: Photoshop CS6 public beta
Post by: tvalleau on April 16, 2012, 02:10:10 pm
I'm surprised at the level of hostility here. It's just printmaking, not religion.
Title: Re: Photoshop CS6 public beta
Post by: Farmer on April 16, 2012, 06:45:32 pm
They were using it for printing profiling targets amongst other things. You of all people should appreciate that.
Yes, they now offer ACPU, but it famously doesn't print as it should in Windows and Adobe can't be bothered to fix it.

Can't be bothered?  How about, Dave has been working and doing some major updates to the printing workflow, among other things that he and the other engineers and staff work on?  Can't be bothered?  Honestly, what a load of crap.

Once they have some bandwidth when CS6 is bedded down, I'll bet that some time will be given to addressing many of those issues.

But, let's be clear - as Andrew has stated - the ONLY people who actually have a responsibility for ensuring that their targets can be printed are the vendors of the various packages.  ACPU is a community service - a free package to help folks because the vendors of those colour management solutions haven't taken it upon themselves to ensure that their products actually work.

tvalleau - yes, it is getting a little heated I suppose, but when people make broad accusations such as the above, it deserves to be challenged.  If you ever have the opportunity to discuss or meet with some of these people at Adobe or Apple or Microsoft etc. you'll find they're passionate, intelligent, hard working people and they simply don't deserve rubbish such as being told "they can't be bothered".
Title: Re: Photoshop CS6 public beta
Post by: tvalleau on April 16, 2012, 07:10:36 pm
Quote
If you ever have the opportunity to discuss or meet with some of these people at Adobe or Apple or Microsoft etc. you'll find they're passionate, intelligent, hard working people

Right you are. I started working with Apple in 1978, and when I retired after 30+ years, got a nice phone call from Steve. I went to college with many of the core group (Bill Atkinson, Jef Raskin, et al) so I've had the pleasure of having known them for many, many years now. (I still see Bill now and then, (usually along with Charlie Cramer) at The Center for Photographic Art in Carmel...)
Title: Re: Photoshop CS6 public beta
Post by: Rhossydd on April 17, 2012, 04:36:46 am
Can't be bothered?  How about, Dave has been working and doing some major updates to the printing workflow, among other things that he and the other engineers and staff work on?  Can't be bothered? 
Adobe isn't some one man band shareware outfit run by a guy called 'Dave' it's a huge multi-national. If they could be bothered, fixing the minor issue of print resizing in ACPU would be next to nothing for a software company of this size with it's resources and expertise.
Corporately Adobe can't be bothered, if they were it would have been fixed within weeks of it's original release. They just don't care about this.
Title: Re: Photoshop CS6 public beta
Post by: Farmer on April 17, 2012, 05:34:21 am
You're just so wrong.  They have finite resources which, as with any corporation, are allocated with the intent of generating some benefit to the company (usually revenue, be it directly or indirectly).

The people who run the company are not faceless robots - they are also just real people.  Everyone thinks it's so easy to just "put resources into doing X or Y or Z" but then they'll be the first ones to complain that A or B or C aren't done as a result.

Not being a high priority is not the same as not being bothered and it's just selfish and rude to expect that something "should have been done" just because you think it should have been.

Let's be clear.  It's NOT Adobe's responsibility to provide a tool to let OTHER vendors' software or solutions work.  That they did come up with a tool is a recognition of a need within their customer base and a desire to to help with that need.  Of course it's not just a benevolent society, in so doing they presumably hope to gain some benefit, either through improved customer satisfaction or some other means.  That's fine - that's the point of a company.  It's also possible (and likely) that individuals within the company want to do these sorts of things because of their passion and interest in the industry in which they work.
Title: Re: Photoshop CS6 public beta
Post by: tom b on April 17, 2012, 06:00:53 am
Adobe software:

Acrobat X Pro
Acrobat X Standard
Acrobat X Suite
Acrobat.com
After Effects® CS5.5
AIR®
AudienceManager
AudienceResearch
Audition® CS5.5
Adobe Auditude
Authorware® 7
BrowserLab
Business Catalyst®
Adobe Captivate® 5.5
Central Pro Output Server
Collage
Connect
ColdFusion® 9
ColdFusion Builder™ 2
Color Lava
Content Server 4
Contribute® CS5
CQ Digital Asset Management
CQ Web Content Management
CS Live
CreatePDF
CS Review
Creative Cloud™
Creative Suite Extension Builder 1.5
Creative Suite 5.5 Design Premium
Creative Suite 5.5 Design Standard
Creative Suite 5.5 Master Collection
Creative Suite 5.5 Web Premium
Creative Suite 5.5 Production Premium
CRX
Debut
Digital Publishing Suite, Professional Edition
Digital Editions
Digital Marketing Suite
Digital Publishing Suite, Single Edition
Digital Publishing Suite, Enterprise Edition
Director® 11.5
Discover™
Distiller Server 8
Dreamweaver CS5.5
Drive 3
Eazel
EchoSign®
eLearning Suite 2.5
Encore®
ExportPDF
Fireworks® CS5
Flash Access®
Flash Builder® 4.6
Flash Media Playback
Flash Media Live Encoder
Flash Media Server
FrameMaker® 10
Flash Media Server on Amazon Web Services™
Flash Player
Flash Professional CS5.5
Flash Video Streaming Services
Flex 4.6
Font Folio® 11.1
FormsCentral
FrameMaker Server 10
FreeHand® MX
Genesis™
HTTP Dynamic Streaming
Ideas
Illustrator CS5
InContext Editing
InCopy® CS5.5
InDesign® CS5.5
InDesign CS5.5 Server
Insight
JRun™ 4
Kuler®
Kuler mobile
Adobe LeanPrint
LiveCycle Enterprise Suite 3
Media Encoder
Multi-Channel Advertising Technology
Nav
OnLocation™
Output Designer
Output Pak for mySAP.com
Ovation®
PageMaker® 7.0
Pass
PhoneGap™ Build
Photoshop CS5
Photoshop CS5 Extended
Photoshop Elements 10
Photoshop Elements 10 & Adobe Premiere® Elements 10
Photoshop Lightroom 4
Photoshop Touch
Photoshop.com
Adobe Premiere Elements 10
Adobe Premiere Express
Adobe Premiere Pro CS5.5
Presenter 7
Proto
Publish
Reader® X
Recommendations
Revel™
RoboHelp® 9
RoboHelp Server 9
Scene7®
SearchCenter+
Search&Promote
SendNow
Shockwave® Player
SiteCatalyst®
Social
SocialAnalytics
Soundbooth® CS5
Story
Survey
TagManager
Technical Communication Suite 3.5
Test&Target™
Test&Target 1:1
Typekit
Type products
Visual Communicator® 3
Web Fonts
Web Output Pak

Come on now, you can't please everyone.

Cheers,
Title: Re: Photoshop CS6 public beta
Post by: Rhossydd on April 17, 2012, 06:09:51 am
You're just so wrong.
Why are you such an apologist for them ? Offering something that doesn't work as it should reflects worse of the corporation than not offering anything at all.
Title: Re: Photoshop CS6 public beta
Post by: digitaldog on April 17, 2012, 09:59:16 am
Offering something that doesn't work as it should reflects worse of the corporation than not offering anything at all.

Actually it works exactly as designed and as others have expressed here, for good reason. You don’t like the design decision. But it works. And the idea that implementing a feature used by few, confuses far more, adds extra tech support and documentation issues all to help a 3rd party manufacturer who should be controlling this process seems lost on many.
Title: Re: Photoshop CS6 public beta
Post by: Rhossydd on April 17, 2012, 10:54:29 am
Actually it works exactly as designed
You think it's designed to resize targets then ? never seen that suggested before.
Title: Re: Photoshop CS6 public beta
Post by: Alan Goldhammer on April 17, 2012, 11:45:55 am
ACPU does downsize patch targets by a small amount when used on Win7 systems.  I have no idea what it does on MacOS as I don't have a Mac.  While the change is measurable, it has absolutely no effect at all on the ability of an i1 Pro to read patches.  I use ArgyllCMS to generate & read patches and prepare profiles both for myself and other photographers.  For those who are sending me targets I ask them to print them out using ACPU and I've not received a patch set that I cannot read.  If you have concerns about the 3% change in patch size (which is what I think it is), you can resize your patch set in PS before either using it or sending it out to others.  I don't think this is a big deal.  ACPU was provided as a service to deal with the OS change requirements.  As with a lot of other things this has caused consternation and adaptation.  At least one Adobe engineer has stated a disagreement with this change in terms of the elimination of the use of ABW profiles when printing using MacOS and Epson printers so I don't think there is a big cabal out there trying to dictate things to us.
Title: Re: Photoshop CS6 public beta
Post by: digitaldog on April 17, 2012, 12:15:34 pm
You think it's designed to resize targets then ? never seen that suggested before.

Photoshop’s print dialog? Sure is if you want to. Been that way for years and years. As is design of  the newer CS6 omission of the RGB working spaces and CS5’s No Color Management option. Those who need to print targets don’t like it but they are a tiny subset of users which was my point.
Title: Re: Photoshop CS6 public beta
Post by: Gandalf on April 17, 2012, 02:35:18 pm
I'm too lazy to read the whole thread, so forgive me if this has been discussed, but is anyone else having problems with Photokit crashing CS6? There is something in there making a mess. Also, is there a way to set a tool or a tool preset as part of an action? I need to be able to quickly crop images to specific pixel dimensions for a client and I can't figure out how to select as tool preset as part of an action.
Title: Re: Photoshop CS6 public beta
Post by: Farmer on April 17, 2012, 08:14:43 pm
I'm not an apologist.  I'm a realist.  It's not particularly appropriate to label someone an apologist just because they disagree with you.  It's better not to label others and just deal with the points at hand.
Title: Re: Photoshop CS6 public beta
Post by: Schewe on April 17, 2012, 08:59:07 pm
I'm too lazy to read the whole thread, so forgive me if this has been discussed, but is anyone else having problems with Photokit crashing CS6?

There are a couple of known issues that will be addressed when CS6 actually ships. The current versions of our V2 products should be more or less compatible. What version of PKS are you running?
Title: Re: Photoshop CS6 public beta
Post by: Rhossydd on April 18, 2012, 03:11:53 am
I'm not an apologist.  I'm a realist.  It's not particularly appropriate to label someone an apologist just because they disagree with you. 
Well you've come over as someone who is vigorously defending Adobe as if they are some small operation with very limited resources, maybe as another person with their own commercial interests at stake.
Yes, be a 'realist' and accommodating with the little guys charging small amounts for specialist software that will never be able to incorporate all their users expectations, but if you take that attitude with the companies that charge the really big bucks for their products and dominate the market, they start to dominate their users instead of serving them.
Title: Re: Photoshop CS6 public beta
Post by: john beardsworth on April 18, 2012, 03:29:33 am
Why not just say "sorry"? Putting the boot on the other foot, how would you have liked to have been labelled as a constant whiner? And it's rather tiresome that you keep resorting to insinuations that disagreement with your assertions is motivated by self-interest.
Title: Re: Photoshop CS6 public beta
Post by: Farmer on April 18, 2012, 03:50:19 am
Your views of corporations are, well, interesting.
Title: Re: Photoshop CS6 public beta
Post by: RFPhotography on April 18, 2012, 07:39:10 am
This thread is now 7 pages long and probably 3 or 4 of those pages have dealt with an issue that is faced by very few and one or two of those very few have been pissing and moaning for these 3 or 4 pages.  Face facts:  You're not getting the feature back.  Deal with it and move on.  Let some other people get their questions answered. 
Title: Re: Photoshop CS6 public beta
Post by: stamper on April 18, 2012, 11:03:06 am
Some people enjoy the whining, it is part of their nature and It's important for them not to allow the facts and pertinent answers to detract from the enjoyment.  ::)
Title: Re: Photoshop CS6 public beta
Post by: Gandalf on April 22, 2012, 05:41:04 pm
I'm running V2. The problems I've had were with Photokit, not PKS.  For what it's worth, things seem to go belly up with contrast mask or midtone enhance.
Title: Re: Photoshop CS6 public beta
Post by: Schewe on April 22, 2012, 11:32:51 pm
Go to the PG website and download the most recent versions (varies by product). We just uploaded what we believe to be fixes for all current CS6 issues to all three of our V2 products.
Title: Re: Photoshop CS6 public beta
Post by: Dinarius on April 26, 2012, 05:43:02 am
Farce? What has the encoding scale have to do with anything? The data isn’t in 256 steps yet you feel a 0-255 scale is professional but 0-100% isn’t?

FWIW, you can produce 0-255 values in LR4 for Melissa RGB while soft proofing if that is somehow useful. I don’t see how a value of 255 or 100% to define the whitest white is in any way more useful or less professional than the other. In fact, 100% white, 0 black seems to make more sense considering the actual data. Equal values of either is neutral.

Just because someone was brought up with one scale, doesn’t make the others inferior. The metric system, (which I would submit is more intuitive than the US standard system) confuses those brought up with the US system. The opposite should be true. That doesn’t prove that a mile is any less a professional metric to describe a distance than a kilometer!

In Photoshop, 24 bit CMYK is still 0-255 data but represented as 0-100% CMYK ink. That’s logical? Try telling an old time prepress guy that using those values are silly or not professional despite the actual data.

ACR has never been 0-255/Adobe RGB. The primaries are ProPhoto RGB but with a linear gamma encoding. The histogram and numbers are the same primaries but with an sRGB tone curve. You can build this as an ICC profile in Photoshop’s Color Settings, save off an ICC profile and load it into LR4 to get those beloved 0-255 values. Now are you going to export that data in MelissaRGB? And considering that any working space, Melissa RGB, Adobe RGB (1998), ProPhoto will most likely get converted to another space (output or maybe sRGB for web), the numbers are going to change. So what?

Belatedly, thanks for the feedback. I knew I'd draw you out!  :)

Wonder why they've opted for both 0-255 (when softproofing) and % in LR?

Thanks again.

D.
Title: Re: Photoshop CS6 public beta
Post by: Eric Myrvaagnes on April 26, 2012, 09:14:03 am
If God hadn't wanted us to use a 0-255 scale, (S)He wouldn't have made us with 255 fingers on each hand (or is it 100 fingers???)  :-\
Title: Re: Photoshop CS6 public beta
Post by: eleanorbrown on August 10, 2012, 11:57:02 am
I just upgraded to Photoshop 6 and with the dark gray interface the text is way to small for me to read on my Apple 30 inch display!  Is there any way I can set the text and the little boxes of controls on the left of the screen larger! Thanks for any suggestions, Eleanor
Title: Re: Photoshop CS6 public beta
Post by: ErikKaffehr on August 10, 2012, 01:55:59 pm
Eric,

I'd say it would have been 8 fingers per hand.

8+8 = 16
16*16 = 256

Analogously:

5+5 = 10
10*10 = 100

So, Lightroom is intended for the humans with 5 fingers on each hand while PS is intended for those having eight fingers on each hand. Photoshop users are a minority.

Best regards
Erik


If God hadn't wanted us to use a 0-255 scale, (S)He wouldn't have made us with 255 fingers on each hand (or is it 100 fingers???)  :-\
Title: Re: Photoshop CS6 public beta
Post by: francois on August 11, 2012, 06:32:26 am
I just upgraded to Photoshop 6 and with the dark gray interface the text is way to small for me to read on my Apple 30 inch display!  Is there any way I can set the text and the little boxes of controls on the left of the screen larger! Thanks for any suggestions, Eleanor

Have you tried the different options in the Preferences > Interface…? You can set UI text size to different sizes and change theme colors. Although it's not ideal and only a partial solution, it might make a difference!
Title: Re: Photoshop CS6 public beta
Post by: eleanorbrown on August 11, 2012, 10:56:08 am
Thanks Francios! Am embarrassed to admit that I missed those options when setting my prefs...I will try these today! Eleanor

Have you tried the different options in the Preferences > Interface…? You can set UI text size to different sizes and change theme colors. Although it's not ideal and only a partial solution, it might make a difference!