Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Cameras, Lenses and Shooting gear => Topic started by: dgberg on February 13, 2012, 06:00:54 am
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Putting together my poor mans medium format rig for my pano work.
D800e and a tilt shift lens still to be determined.
The Nikon 24 fits my budget but several of the reviews discuss build quality issues. (small knobs,sloppy fit)
The Hartblei and Scheinder both look to be of stellar quality but at twice the price of the Nikon.
Looking for comments from possibly a D3X owner that's been shooting with a tilt shift lens.
Presently shooting my panos with D2Xs and 14-24 and 24-70 on a pano rig. This will be my first time shooting full frame with these lenses.
Hoping to start shooting 3 shot vertical and horizontal panos with the new setup and especially to get rid of that heavy pano head.
Prints go pretty big usually 24x60.
Is their a tilt shift optic I may be missing?
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I do not have the d800 so cannot judge about 36mp. But on 24mp:
the 85mm pce is the best - d8 full shift no problem
the 45pce is also very good - not full shift and d11
the 24pce is also very good -but you have to use it with liveview and check the corners at d9-11
as far as i know Schneider does not have a 24mm TS lens and the 45mm is expensive but not that good
The hartblei's i do not know..
For me it also will be a surprise to see how 36mp does on the PCE lenses- for sure not many Nikon lenses can do 36mp in the corners or even the sides
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Thanks.
You have pretty much confirmed my findings.
My other option is no tilt shift,stay with the pano head and get something like the Zeiss 21 Distagon T.
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I haven't used the Nikon's PC-E lenses, but use Canon's TS-E 24 II extensively. Concerning small knobs and sloppy fit, I guess this is a general problem with 35mm tilt-shift lenses. If you compare to an Arca Swiss large format camera with geared movements, the tilt-shift knobs on the 35mm systems is really crappy and poor feel etc.
However, having used the TS-E 24 I'd say that for actual results there's no problem. Despite the smallness and sloppiness it is good enough to consistently focus/tilt/shift well. All it takes is a good live view. On the Canon, the tilt needs locking down to not come out of position (one hand on the geared adjustment knob, one hand on the locking knob, and the eye on zoomed in live view), but the shift I often use unlocked.
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Looking for comments from possibly a D3X owner that's been shooting with a tilt shift lens.
Presently shooting my panos with D2Xs and 14-24 and 24-70 on a pano rig. This will be my first time shooting full frame with these lenses.
Hoping to start shooting 3 shot vertical and horizontal panos with the new setup and especially to get rid of that heavy pano head.
I have been using the 24 pce on a D3x, very sharp lens but I found it a bit hard to focus with live view for some reason.
Cheers,
Bernard
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Thanks.
You have pretty much confirmed my findings.
My other option is no tilt shift,stay with the pano head and get something like the Zeiss 21 Distagon T.
If that is the case I'd look at the Zeiss 25mm instead of the 21mm. From my (admittedly brief -about an hour or so ) hands on experience with a D800 and looking at a lot of the sample photos that have been posted so far, to get the full image quality out the D800 cameras appear to be capable of will take superior optics and technique.
Like you I do a lot of stitched panoramic work and look forward to the D800 and also wonder if Canon will have something to compete with its sensor resolution and dynamic range within the next year.
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Zeiss.
http://www.hartblei.de/en/srz-set.htm
You could probably put a down payment on a house for the cost of all 3.
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If that is the case I'd look at the Zeiss 25mm instead of the 21mm. From my (admittedly brief -about an hour or so ) hands on experience with a D800 and looking at a lot of the sample photos that have been posted so far, to get the full image quality out the D800 cameras appear to be capable of will take superior optics and technique.
Like you I do a lot of stitched panoramic work and look forward to the D800 and also wonder if Canon will have something to compete with its sensor resolution and dynamic range within the next year.
This opens another can of worms.
I have a Nex 7 with Zeiss 24 f/1.8 on the way for a light weight carry around system. That Zeiss 24mm lens is auto focus on the Nex 7.
Another option would be to buy the Zeiss 21 or 25 mm with nikon mount.
Use it on the D800e and then also get a Nex/Sony adapter so it could be used manually on the Nex7.
I would then have 1 top grade Zeiss lens that could be used for both cameras.
Decisions,decisions?
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If that is the case I'd look at the Zeiss 25mm instead of the 21mm....
Sorry but i just sold my Zeiss 25mm because it was replaced by the much better Nikkor 24mm 1,4G, ;
also the 24mm pce is much better. At d11 the difference becomes small but that is 6 stops away from 1,4...
At 1,4 the nikkor is as good as the zeiss on 2,8
I am in line with the findings of photozone.de in this respect.
The 21mm Zeiss is probably a different story.
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Glad to hear it. it is always good to find more quality at a lower price. I like 24mm f/1.4G myself but have not done the apples to apples testing you apparently did. Thanks for sharing your findings.
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Putting together my poor mans medium format rig for my pano work.
D800e and a tilt shift lens still to be determined.
Is their a tilt shift optic I may be missing?
I believe you pretty well covered it. I have worked with a PC-E 45MM Nikkor the past three years, and as much as I like the lens, the glass, and the focal length; it is of inferior construction. The fittings for Shifting and Tilting are significantly loose. Tightening the nuts to lock movements is imprecise. I know of one user who twisted the knob off a lock nut. In any case, I'll never regret having acquired the Nikon model. But, I'm ready to move on.
After two years of holding back for a Hartblei 40/4.0, I took delivery on one two days ago. My D800E remains on pre-order, but in the meantime, I'm using a D700 to get familiar with the lens. It is of stellar construction, rock solid mechanical function exceeding the quality of Japanese-made Zeiss. It is a beast, weighing 4 pounds! I'm not looking forward to carrying it in a backpack over mountain passes. It comes with a tripod collar, so shift movements are parallax free. Shift and Tilt functions have no need for lock nuts... testament to the mechanical integrity. A large sweet spot comes with a 6 cm diameter making it ideal for full shifts. It is unidirectional shifting, but the direction can be rotated. Focusing in Live View was an eye opener. Live-View focus has never been more precise and quick, a real pleasure! Cost and weight are the most significant negatives, but losing EXIF data is also worth mentioning.
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If you are shooting horizontal panos with tilt-shift lenses, keep in mind that the image quality may not be satisfactory at the far left and right edges. This has been my experience with the older 85mm nikon t/s and the canon t/s lenses (24II,45,90). For this reason, I prefer to shoot panos with a panning head and use t/s lenses for stitching when I need a more square aspect ratio (e.g., 4/3 or 3/2). Also using the 24mm t/s to create a horizontal pano will result in a very wide image (a little too wide for me to use generally).
Stephen
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Thanks for the report Greg, keep us posted as you continue to work with the Hartblei, especially once you get a chance to use it on a higher-res camera.
I share your assessment of the 45mm PC-E, just not sure I want to replace it for solely mechanical reasons, so I've been curious just how much better the Hartlei is optically.
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Sorry but i just sold my Zeiss 25mm because it was replaced by the much better Nikkor 24mm 1,4G, ;
also the 24mm pce is much better. At d11 the difference becomes small but that is 6 stops away from 1,4...
At 1,4 the nikkor is as good as the zeiss on 2,8
I am in line with the findings of photozone.de in this respect.
The 21mm Zeiss is probably a different story.
Would that have been the ZF25/2.8? I have this one as well and agree the AFS24/1.4 is a better lens. However, it seems the ZF25/2.0 is another thing, I cannot say for sure since I have not used the 25/2.0. I sure would like to know.
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I have tried almost all the t/s lenses for Nikon mount. I even went so far as to purchase a 45, but had to return it as it had color bleed issues (bad Nano coating, imo). The Schneider 90 is a superior optic but ergonomically a nightmare to use. If you can master it, I feel sure it would be fantastic on a D800. I rented, then purchased a Zeiss 21. One of these years (hello Nikon) when the D800 is available I hope to use it on that body. Meanwhile I'm using it on my D700 and NEX-7 w/Novoflex adapter.
Ellis, not sure why anyone would choose the 25 over the 21 for landscape unless you are stitching, but YMMV.
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Where can one purchase a Hartblei 4/40 IF TS Superrotator in the US?
Thanks,
Phil
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T/S? Bah!
It will make you crazy in the field and introduce a whole new set of ways to irrecoverably mess up the shot. Those little knobs and their gear trains are ridiculously inadequate for the purpose. And it is not uncommon to find scenes with planes and geometries that can't be adequately solved with T/S. And be prepared for the light to go from great to blah as you are fiddling with springy little knobs and poking at the liveview.
For me it's the fiddle factor. I hate fiddling in the field and nothing is as fiddly as T/S.
And it's also that optical ugliness that will inevitably creep into the corners/tops/bottoms/sides of your image, somewhere. There is no free optical lunch with T/S.
Focus stacking. Ah! It's worth the effort.
And 21mm is too wide for panos. You need 35 to 135mm to keep the horizon from winding up way the heck out there in Never Never Land. Panos shot with long lenses greatly increase the height in the print at which high detail is apparent, and convey much more information about the scene than a wide angle lens approach.
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Where can one purchase a Hartblei 4/40 IF TS Superrotator in the US?
Thanks,
Phil
They are not stocked by a retailer in the US. I ordered mine direct from Germany with the help of Stefan Steib. He can handle all of the details. His email address:
s.steib@hartblei.de
Greg
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T/S? Bah!
It will make you crazy in the field and introduce a whole new set of ways to irrecoverably mess up the shot. Those little knobs and their gear trains are ridiculously inadequate for the purpose. And it is not uncommon to find scenes with planes and geometries that can't be adequately solved with T/S. And be prepared for the light to go from great to blah as you are fiddling with springy little knobs and poking at the liveview.
For me it's the fiddle factor. I hate fiddling in the field and nothing is as fiddly as T/S.
It is a question of an individual demands and style.
I have not mastered tilting, and I'm not all that keen to use it. Tilt takes time to master, if it can be mastered at all, not to mention it demands compositional limitations on its implementation. But it can also make things work when otherwise they would not. Changing the plane of focus is tricky business and definitely not for many of us.
It is the Shift that makes for all the reason to have one. My thing is landscapes, and I love the perspective control. It also aids a great deal in fine tuning a composition without having to mess further with tripod placement and tedious height adjustments on rugged terrain. No soft edges with the Hartlei 40/4, not to mention the precise mechanics. I'm not yet into stitching, but 40/4 is parallax free. Shifting, without question, saves me substantial time with setup.
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Bill
we build the 4/40mm IF TS on order. it takes about 2-3 weeks plus about 1 week to ship it (UPS is even faster).
It should maybe said , that the 4/40 IF is the worldwide only inside focusing shift and tilt lens, basing on the legendary
Carl Zeiss- 4/40mm IF Distagon, with a resolution of 200 lp/mm (Zeiss Data sheet, we have also measured this independently on our barrel)
you can take a look at a full review here:
http://diglloyd.com/articles/Hartblei-pub/Main.html
about operation you´ll find a very good explanation here on the DP-Review test of our 120mm:
http://www.dpreview.com/lensreviews/hartblei_120_4_pc_n10/
i have recently posted full neff raws from the Nikon D800E in this thread here on LL:
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?topic=66409.0
Greetings from Germany
Stefan
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I'm really hoping for some Hartblei 24mm, 21mm or even 14-16mm tilt-shifts - not just for stitching, but for focal plane control when you can't stitch (due to moving subjects) but still want an ultra-ultra-wide-angle shot with foreground-to-horizon sharp focus.
24mm lenses give great results when shifting, but I find that, when shifting isn't an option, it's just not wide enough. Even the Canon TS-E 17 isn't really wide enough without shifting. After all, a 24mm tilt-shift gives you a horizontal angle of view equivalent to a 14.4mm lens on full-frame when used to stitch a panorama.
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How much am I looking at for one of these, in US dollars?
Also, does it require a special ball head? Currently, I'm using a RRS BH-55 and BH 40.
Thanks,
Phil
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How much am I looking at for one of these, in US dollars?
Also, does it require a special ball head? Currently, I'm using a RRS BH-55 and BH 40.
Thanks,
Phil
Both of those ball heads would work fine. In addition to the expense of the lens, it is necessary to purchase a Novoflex QPL1 quick release plate to use with the integrated rotating lens mount: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/269762-REG/Novoflex_QPL_1_Quick_Release_Plate_for.html
I use a BH 40, but recently upgraded to an Arca-Swiss DM4. The DM and DM4 are outstanding performers and work very well with a T/S setup. The Hartblei T/S 40mm f/4 cost 6500 USD, but by the time I paid bank fees (I had to wire the money to Germany) and customs, the total was about 7300 USD. http://www.hartblei.de/en/sr40if.htm
The 80mm goes for around 3000 USD. I'd estimate after bank fees and customs, the total will be closer to 3400: http://www.hartblei.de/en/sr80pl.htm
Those prices were quoted two months ago. If seriously considering a purchase, you would want to contact Stefan Steib to confirm current pricing.
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It is a question of an individual demands and style.
I have not mastered tilting, and I'm not all that keen to use it. Tilt takes time to master, if it can be mastered at all, not to mention it demands compositional limitations on its implementation. But it can also make things work when otherwise they would not. Changing the plane of focus is tricky business and definitely not for many of us.
It is the Shift that makes for all the reason to have one. My thing is landscapes, and I love the perspective control. It also aids a great deal in fine tuning a composition without having to mess further with tripod placement and tedious height adjustments on rugged terrain. No soft edges with the Hartlei 40/4, not to mention the precise mechanics. I'm not yet into stitching, but 40/4 is parallax free. Shifting, without question, saves me substantial time with setup.
Curious if you have received your D800E and had a chance to use it with the Hartblei 40mm? If so, I'm curious how you find the lens performs with the higher res sensor.
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Curious if you have received your D800E and had a chance to use it with the Hartblei 40mm? If so, I'm curious how you find the lens performs with the higher res sensor.
Still waiting for the D800E to ship! Ordered it back in February. I went ahead and placed an order with two more retailers hoping one will deliver more quickly than the other. Apparently, Nikon is not geared to meet the high demand.
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How about an Olympus T/S lens adapted for Nikon:
http://photo.net/gc/view-one?classified_ad_id=1425730
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Still waiting for the D800E to ship! Ordered it back in February. I went ahead and placed an order with two more retailers hoping one will deliver more quickly than the other. Apparently, Nikon is not geared to meet the high demand.
Thanks. Sent you a PM
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My actual combo is the Nikon D800 + Horseman VCC Pro + Pentax 645 Lenses. Pentax 645 lenses are really a surprise.
The Horseman VCC Pro have camera mounts for Nikon and Canon and lens mounts for Mamiya 645 and Pentax 645, Hasselblad, Rodenstock and Schneider.
For panos is great becouse the shifting movement is in the rear mount.
The funny thing is that my Pentax 35mm lens, mounts and have movements enough for shifting and stitching, not to say that the 45-85 and 120 macros are on it too.
Total I spent $4000 for the VCC Pro and lenses and the all tilt and shift.
I think is a good deal.
Hope this helps to anyone trying to work with tilts and shifts.
Pretty soon I'm going to be showing some images of these combo and the actual setup.
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My actual combo is the Nikon D800 + Horseman VCC Pro + Pentax 645 Lenses.
So you´re saying that Pentax-lenses go on the horseman? I thought it only took those expensive Rodagon lenses. What is the range of pentax-lenses that you can use (what´s the widest?). Can you focus them all to infinity? Are you using this setup outdoors, and how is it working for you there?
Cheers!
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Hi erpman,
I too use the Horseman VCC Pro converter be it the old model. The lenses I use are Rodenstock Apo-Rodagon and Rodagon enlarging lenses.
I found these lenses on EBay and where inexpensive. Optically they are superb and combine with new Nikon D800E a joy to use.
The shortest focal length I can use is 80mm so cause of this I will be purchasing a Nikon 45mm PC-E lens soon.
Another lens I have converted by a Mamiya 645 to Nikon adaptor is the Mamiya 645 50mm shift lens which works great.
Cheers
Simon
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'My actual combo is the Nikon D800 + Horseman VCC Pro + Pentax 645 Lenses. Pentax 645 lenses are really a surprise....
The problem is choosing wideangleTS lenses- as far as i know there is no alternative for the 24mm PCE Nikkor...
Canon has an advantage here.. with the 17mm...
Fortunately there is the 14-24mm zoom ; a very good lens that can capture everything you need.
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Horseman sells a Pentax, Mamiya, and Hasselblad mounts. They are kind of expensive, each costing $450.
With the Pentax Mount, focusing the lens at infinity in its own barrel, I can HAVE movement with the 35mm lens. Tilt and shift.
Enough shift to make stitching with out even reaching the vignetted zone yet.
Different than working with the Rodenstocks, the distance from the begging of the bellow to the lens mount is clear, so you have enough space for movements.
My widest lens is the 35mm but if my physics are not wrong, I think the same would happened with the 25mm.
I'll be posting some images pretty soon.
ACH
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For what it worth, I think may be it can be a rather considerable idea to get a 5DIII with TS-E 17/4 just use them as an unit, may be adding a TS-E 24, still under USD 10,000.
Pingang
Shanghai
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Hi kers,
Nikon have applied for a patent for a 17mm PC-E lens so it should be available hopefully soon.
http://nikonrumors.com/2012/04/27/nikon-patents-for-17mm-f4-tilt-and-shift-10mm-f4-16-30mm-f4-5-5-6-and-28mm-f1-4-lenses.aspx/
I will certainly be purchasing one.
Cheers
Simon
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Hi kers,
Nikon have applied for a patent for a 17mm PC-E lens so it should be available hopefully soon.
http://nikonrumors.com/2012/04/27/nikon-patents-for-17mm-f4-tilt-and-shift-10mm-f4-16-30mm-f4-5-5-6-and-28mm-f1-4-lenses.aspx/
I will certainly be purchasing one.
Cheers
Simon
I think it will be easier for Canon to create a 36Mp body competitive with the D800 than it is for Nikon to create a TS lens competitive with the Canon one.
I'm willing to wager a thimble full of my favourite lukewarm beer on this, though I too hope I'm wrong.
I'm keeping the 5D2 and the TS lenses and shooting all my other stuff on the D800E. Its especially nice to have this option as I can use many of the Nikon lenses on the 5D2 with an adapter in MF mode as well, so I can sell off a bunch of my Canon lenses.
While there are exotic ways to add TS to a D800, like some of the suggestions above, my experience trying these with a DSLR is that the depth of the mirror box can make life more complicated than it would be with an MF back. In practice the great benefit of a DSLR is the speed of operation. Trying to use a DSLR body as a sensor for a view camera setup is like putting lipstick on a dwarf pot bellied pig, often charming in a curious way, but one to avoid rather than snog or marry. IMHO you lose the speed and flexibility of a DSLR in the process.
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i have the d800e and all the pce-nikons, used them all extensively on the d3x for years
the 85mm is superb throughout all its apertures and range of movements
the 24 and the 45 are superb at 5.6-f8 but start to loose it in the corners when fully shifted and the 45 can show CA in the corners when tilted
sure they are not as precise as they could be but very light, usable and good value
i was enquiring about the schnieder options to robert white and this is the response:
"would suggest that you wait as Schnieder are to be producing a new wide angle PC E lens ...I suspect details will follow closer to Photokina in September"
i did a lot of this work with them (the book is sold out):
http://adriantyler.net/alhambra.html
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Hi
I have a 28mm f/2.8 Schneider PC-Super-Angulon lens which I use on my D800E. Bought secondhand in mint condition for $1200. It is well made and very sharp. Like all W/A T/S lenses you will get some vignetting at extreme shifts. I have also tried the Schneider TS lens but disliked the unidirectional shift which is a pain for panoramic images and furthermore as another poster said they are big and very expensive.
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If I wasn't having a lens problem (haha), I would now be using the Mirex adapter with a Hasselblad lens. Cost of the combination was about $1200 incl shipping. The Mirex is a German made TS adapter for use with D800 (My model is at least. There are others for Canon too.)
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Perhaps it is cost effective, but using adapters would presumably create another port for entry of dust and another connection allowing for more play in the mount. These are only assumptions on my part, I'd welcome feedback on this issue for those of you using adapters for third-party lenses.
Loosely constructed mechanics are one of the primary reasons I don't like the Nikon options. Also, full shifts get well outside the sweet spot. Lloyd Chambers makes a point on these issues in his lens review. The Hartblei T/S lineup eliminates these issues. The 40mm/4.0 is terribly large, true enough, not to mention the expense! It is my choice for wide angle, although it is clear others desire wider. I remain very satisfied with the Hartblei 40/4.0. The integrated tripod collar makes for possible bidirectional, parallax-free shifting, and due to the massive glass diameters, no vignetting or softening when fully shifted. Last but not least, what is claimed to be 200 line pairs/millimeter resolution makes this option all the more desirable.
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Well some of my findings so far with the Horseman VCC Pro. For tilts and shits works ok with the Pentax lenses except for Rise Shift Limited by camera nose in horizontal position. Left Shift limited by camera nose in vertical position.
At maximun shift there is CA and some smear.
Here you can download full JPG of two stitched images done in vertical with Rise and lateral shifting. There were 2 images only central left and right.
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/10120389/35mmstitched.jpg (https://dl.dropbox.com/u/10120389/35mmstitched.jpg)
In this image the camera is in vertical position.
(https://dl.dropbox.com/u/10120389/Shifting.jpg)
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Here you can Download a NEF file to check sharpness of the Pentax 645 45-85mm FA. @ 85mm F/8.
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/10120389/_DSC0666.NEF (https://dl.dropbox.com/u/10120389/_DSC0666.NEF)
(https://dl.dropbox.com/u/10120389/45-85%4085-f8-normal.jpg)
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Interesting setup. How much shift can you achieve before hitting the camera nose? Does the Horseman VCC Pro have geared shifts and tilts? Also, does the Horseman body have degree markings to indicate the amount of tilt?
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the 24 and the 45 are superb at 5.6-f8 but start to loose it in the corners when fully shifted and the 45 can show CA in the corners when tilted
sure they are not as precise as they could be but very light, usable and good value
i was enquiring about the schnieder options to robert white and this is the response:
"would suggest that you wait as Schnieder are to be producing a new wide angle PC E lens ...I suspect details will follow closer to Photokina in September"
i did a lot of this work with them (the book is sold out):
http://adriantyler.net/alhambra.html
Shame the book is sold out! I was looking for a buy button immediately. Looks wonderful.
I do hope Robert White is correct about some new shift lens/s coming soon.
I'd sound a note of caution on the current Schneider 28 PC as I believe its extremely 'wompy' with a lot of hard to correct distortion. I had the LF version of the same optic and sent it back. I found it's distortion unnacceptable usable on architecture.
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Interesting setup. How much shift can you achieve before hitting the camera nose? Does the Horseman VCC Pro have geared shifts and tilts? Also, does the Horseman body have degree markings to indicate the amount of tilt?
4mm shift before hitting the nose. It has back geared sifts. Frontal lateral non geared shift. Front tilts with no degree marks.
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Is there any way at present to attach the Hartblei tilt-shift lenses to my Phase One 645 camera?
Thanks,
John
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Hi John,
Hartblei make the Hartblei Digital 45mm Super-Rotator F3.5 Tilt Shift Lens Mamiya/Phase 645 mount.
It so happens that I have one in excellent condition for sale so if you are interested go to the link below.
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=492717487
Cheers
Simon
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Thanks for the offer. Two questions: is the Mamiya mount a custom order item? The Hartblei website did not mention a Mamiya mount directly.
Secondly, what is the coverage of the lens? I have not yet come across any coverage charts for these lenses- have to do some more research.
John
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Hi John,
It is factory fitted with a Mamiya 645 mount. From what I have found on the web the Angle of view is 83° (98° with optical unit shifted)
Cheers
Simon
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Hello,
I'm also selling a Mamiya 645 Shift C 50mm F4.0 lens and Nikon lens mount adapter.
Go to the For Sale section if you are keen.
Cheers
Simon
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The Schneider 90 is a very large lens (the size of those movie primes) yet very light weight - almost just like the 90mm Symmar lens for Rolleiflex, I was actually seriously consider to buy one but with no image reference whatsoever I am a bit reserved.
The shop I spotted the lens in Shanghai would not let me running a try and since I also have Canon system and all the 4 TS-E lenses so it is not a top priority for me but thinking of getting the Schneider 90 can use on both my D800E and with adapter to use on 5DIII is a good choice - but the question is "has anyone tried it and compare to the TS-E 90"? It is a 90/4 lens rather than a 90/2.8, but how the optical performance compares?
Pingang
Shanghai
I have tried almost all the t/s lenses for Nikon mount. I even went so far as to purchase a 45, but had to return it as it had color bleed issues (bad Nano coating, imo). The Schneider 90 is a superior optic but ergonomically a nightmare to use. If you can master it, I feel sure it would be fantastic on a D800. I rented, then purchased a Zeiss 21. One of these years (hello Nikon) when the D800 is available I hope to use it on that body. Meanwhile I'm using it on my D700 and NEX-7 w/Novoflex adapter.
Ellis, not sure why anyone would choose the 25 over the 21 for landscape unless you are stitching, but YMMV.
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Hy,
I'm not very happy with the Nikkor 24 PC on my D800. It has terrible color fringes!
I bought it to have something faster/handily than my Cambo WRS, P25+ with the Digitar 35.
It's faster, yes, but the quality is worse.....
The Zeiss 40 IF is stunning. I use the Hasselblad version with an adapter on my WRS.
I use movements of 14 mm with very good results, even at f4. That's why I'm sure
that the Hartblei will perform very good on a D800, but you have to use a compendium.
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I have never used the Nikon 24mm pc-e, but I know several professional photographers who use it regularly for architectural photography and have had no complaints. What reviews are you referring to? If one of the reviewers has the initials KR, I wouldn't put too much stock in that, except perhaps for hobbyist use.
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David,
it's my own, professional experience. I'm not referring to a review.
The Capture One software can't resolve this CA completly.
I will check it with the Nikon software the next days, maybe it's stronger....
Ben
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David,
I will check it with the Nikon software the next days, maybe it's stronger....
Ben
Check and tell us about the results, I am interested in this lens, the DOF of the D800 is... nonexistent.
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David,
it's my own, professional experience. I'm not referring to a review.
The Capture One software can't resolve this CA completly.
I will check it with the Nikon software the next days, maybe it's stronger....
Ben
I was actually referring to the OP's comment about reviews suggesting some shakey mechanical performance with the Nikon 24mm pc lens. Not surprised that the Schneider medium format lens performs better. The original Canon 24mm pc lens also had significant CA that could not be completely subdued, with Lightroom, at least. Have you tried Lightroom with the Nikon 24mm pc, to try to fix CA? In any case, the current wideangle Canon pc lenses are very high quality, with very low CA. However, Canon does not make a camera like the D800 yet.
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David,
it's my own, professional experience. I'm not referring to a review.
The Capture One software can't resolve this CA completly.
I will check it with the Nikon software the next days, maybe it's stronger....
Ben
My experience is the complete opposite. I find the PC-E 24 and my D800 to be sharp and any CA that pops up when shifted/tilted is easily fixed in my experience with Capture 1 or LR 4.1.
I sold an Alpa and Phase One P45+ when about a year ago and although the Alpa/Schneider lenses were absolutely amazing, I am quite satisfied with the D800 / PC-E 24. Could the lens be better? Of course, but for shooting my projects it performs admirably.
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I have had some time to evaluate the Hartblei 40/4 TS on a D800E. A few observations follow.
Fully shifted, this TS lens is a stellar performer with no visible softening or vignetting. It's outstanding "full-shift" performance should make for higher quality stitched images.
F/8 is a stellar aperture when it comes to contrast and minimal diffraction softening... nothing new there. F/11 is acceptable, but I am impressed with the degree of image degradation at f/16. Performance wide open is outstanding.
One significant difference in comparing this lens to the Nikkor 45 PCE is the camera meter goes wacky with a full shift. I realize shooting in Manual mode rectifies this entirely, but if one shoots in Aperture mode, the camera will overexpose by nearly 2 stops with the lens fully shifted. As long as I shoot in Manual mode and set the exposure with the lens in a neutral position, matrix metering works as expected.
Lastly, the mechanical quality of this lens is solid, precise, and without the need for "lock-down" knobs. My only complaint is the weight of the thing, it is 3.9 pounds HEAVY.
Cheers! Greg
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Are you talking about the Zeiss-Hartblei 40/4 or a Hartblei from Hartblei Ukraine lens? There is quite a difference in terms of quality. The name says it all.
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Are you talking about the Zeiss-Hartblei 40/4 or a Hartblei from Hartblei Ukraine lens? There is quite a difference in terms of quality. The name says it all.
It is a Zeiss-Harblei... the glass is made in Germany. However, as I came to find out, even the Zeiss glass is contracted to Ukrainians for barrel construction and mounting. I assume they are the same Ukrainians that make the Ukrainian glass. The Ukrainian-glass variety is also a much smaller lens at about half the weight. The weight aspect and the price are appealing, but Nikon glass would be my choice over the Ukrainian variety, even though the Nikon variety comes without the rotator function. Going with the Zeiss variety comes with substantial penalties in both size and cost.
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Hi
I have a 28mm f/2.8 Schneider PC-Super-Angulon lens which I use on my D800E. Bought secondhand in mint condition for $1200. It is well made and very sharp. Like all W/A T/S lenses you will get some vignetting at extreme shifts. I have also tried the Schneider TS lens but disliked the unidirectional shift which is a pain for panoramic images and furthermore as another poster said they are big and very expensive.
Hi David,
I am considering buying the 28mm Schneider PC Super-Angulon with the D800E. Can you tell us if the lens retains its sharpness & contrast towards the edges and corners when fully shifted on the D800E?
How would you rate its overall performance when shifted, including distortion & CA? Have you come up again any issues with the D800E?
Does anybody know more about the new Schneider wide angle PC E lens that Robert White was referring to?
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I have had some time to evaluate the Hartblei 40/4 TS on a D800E.
Quick question. If you stitch three images, one fully shifted left, one unshifted, one fully shifted right, using your d800E and the Hartblei, what is the final aspect ratio? Is there enough leeway to gain a double width image (ie a 72MP 3x1 instead of the normal 36MP 2x3)?
If such a thing was possible I'd welcome it. I'm into the 3x1 ratio and big prints. At present I'm stitching 8 protrait images on a Canon 5DII, which is a real pain. It can take several minutes to finish one series if the light is low. A nightmare of changing light conditions. Less images, means less time. Also using shifting instead would eliminate potential stitching errors and give me better DOF control via tilt. Tempting - if it can shift far enough for a 3x1.
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This begs the question - have you tried a Canon TSE?
Glenn
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I don't think you're going to get 3:1 without some cropping. Regardless of the lens' image circle size, any shifting beyond about 12mm is pointless, because you'll get shadow from the mirror box.
With my PCE lenses, 3-shot horizontal shift-stitch yields very close to 2.50:1 ratio (which is a ratio I happen to like quite a bit).
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This begs the question - have you tried a Canon TSE?
No, because the Canon TSE's don't allow enough shift for a double width full-frame pano, and the corners when fully shifted are reported to be a tad soft.
I don't think you're going to get 3:1 without some cropping.
That's a pity. Cropping would lower the resolution, defeating the purpose. I'm used to 90MP files now. Guess I'll stick with pano stitching. Maybe someone will invent an affordable digital 6x17 one day.
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Did anyone comment the rumors of a relatively cheap Samyang t&s 24mm? Judging on the optical quality they have delivered previously, they seem interesting, and the lack of electronics in a t&s seems like a non-issue.
-h