Luminous Landscape Forum

The Art of Photography => But is it Art? => Topic started by: BobDavid on January 31, 2012, 04:28:45 pm

Title: Is this picture art? Or is it artistic?
Post by: BobDavid on January 31, 2012, 04:28:45 pm
My buddy, whose an engineer by trade and an accomplished amateur photog by night, says that photography is not art. I didn't want to start in with him. I showed him this photo and asked him what he thought. I'll leave his response up to you. Here is some background info about the picture. http://goo.gl/o5spm
Title: Re: Is this picture art? Or is it artistic?
Post by: fotometria gr on January 31, 2012, 05:19:54 pm
My buddy, whose an engineer by trade and an accomplished amateur photog by night, says that photography is not art. I didn't want to start in with him. I showed him this photo and asked him what he thought. I'll leave his response up to you. Here is some background info about the picture. http://goo.gl/o5spm
This is art, the value of it may differ from one person to another, but its art alright. It would be artistic if there was no code into it, but there is and it was an intentional code by the artist. Regards, Theodoros. www.fotometria.gr
Title: Re: Is this picture art? Or is it artistic?
Post by: RSL on January 31, 2012, 05:47:02 pm
As Charlie Brown would say: "Good grief!" Here we go again.
Title: Re: Is this picture art? Or is it artistic?
Post by: degrub on January 31, 2012, 10:13:21 pm
We need Linus.....
Title: Re: Is this picture art? Or is it artistic?
Post by: wolfnowl on February 01, 2012, 01:21:48 am
Or maybe Linux...
Title: Re: Is this picture art? Or is it artistic?
Post by: Rob C on February 01, 2012, 05:28:40 am
All wrong: we need da Vinci to break the "code".

Rob C

 
Title: Re: Is this picture art? Or is it artistic?
Post by: fotometria gr on February 01, 2012, 05:48:00 pm
All wrong: we need da Vinci to break the "code".

Rob C

 
No need for Leonardo in this one Rob..., that's an easy one, even for cartoon admirers!  8) Regards, Theodoros.
Title: Re: Is this picture art? Or is it artistic?
Post by: Rob C on February 02, 2012, 03:59:53 am
No need for Leonardo in this one Rob..., that's an easy one, even for cartoon admirers!  8) Regards, Theodoros.




Guess cartoon admirers are streets ahead of me, then, enjoying a sixth sense of which I know nothing. The only possible thing I can imagine about twa dugs is that one of them may or may not be on heat, a question which appears to be puzzling both of them. I know that where there are two of them, and one is blind or otherwise disabled or infirm, the other will help it across the street or along the pavement by giving it a lift; other than that, I suspect that they inhabit a world of their own.

Old Lennie would still make a good spiritual guide - for me, if not the dugs.

Rob C
Title: Re: Is this picture art? Or is it artistic?
Post by: fotometria gr on February 02, 2012, 04:29:43 am



Guess cartoon admirers are streets ahead of me, then, enjoying a sixth sense of which I know nothing. The only possible thing I can imagine about twa dugs is that one of them may or may not be on heat, a question which appears to be puzzling both of them. I know that where there are two of them, and one is blind or otherwise disabled or infirm, the other will help it across the street or along the pavement by giving it a lift; other than that, I suspect that they inhabit a world of their own.

Old Lennie would still make a good spiritual guide - for me, if not the dugs.

Rob C
The point is not what the dogs are doing, or what they will do next.., it's rather what the photograph does or doesn't. Regards, Theodoros.
Title: Re: Is this picture art? Or is it artistic?
Post by: fotometria gr on February 02, 2012, 07:36:46 am
I thought of adding this into the conversation just to make it more interesting, it's not PS, it's an old (26 years) 35mm negative.... Regards, Theodoros.
Title: Re: Is this picture art? Or is it artistic?
Post by: Rob C on February 02, 2012, 09:01:51 am
The point is not what the dogs are doing, or what they will do next.., it's rather what the photograph does or doesn't. Regards, Theodoros.


I was being kind.

Rob C
Title: Re: Is this picture art? Or is it artistic?
Post by: Rob C on February 02, 2012, 09:05:47 am
I thought of adding this into the conversation just to make it more interesting, it's not PS, it's an old (26 years) 35mm negative.... Regards, Theodoros.



Very much more interesting; I like that kind of thing these days.

There was a time some years ago when the BJP used to publish 'student' images and many of them were, as far as I could see, the first or second wind-on exposures to get the film far enough onto the spool to be safe.

But since digital, stuff in that genre is usually intentional and thus worthy of a second look if only because it's a conscious effort to achieve something.

Ciao -

Rob C
Title: Re: Is this picture art? Or is it artistic?
Post by: fotometria gr on February 02, 2012, 09:13:13 am


Very much moe interesting; I like that kind of thing these days.

There was a time some years ago when the BJP used to publish 'student' images and many of them were, as far as I could see, the first or second wind-on exposures to get the film far enough onto the spool to be safe.

But since digital, stuff in that genre is usually intentional and thus worthy of a second look if only because it's a conscious effort to achieve something.

Ciao -

Rob C
This is no multiple exposure Rob. Nor it is an accident... Regards, Theodoros.
Title: Re: Is this picture art? Or is it artistic?
Post by: Rob C on February 02, 2012, 11:23:22 am
This is no multiple exposure Rob. Nor it is an accident... Regards, Theodoros.


No, I wasn't implying that - I was just reporting on the past...

Rob C
Title: Re: Is this picture art? Or is it artistic?
Post by: JonathanRimmel on February 02, 2012, 02:31:39 pm
I used to think Photography was not art... Until I became a photographer.  :-[  I think unless you really analyze photographs (and any other work of art) and take in their meaning and all the elements that make them up, you will not see the value. Many people own cameras, they have a different experience with photographs than we do.
Title: Re: Is this picture art? Or is it artistic?
Post by: Rob C on February 02, 2012, 02:48:20 pm
As with many things that are a result of some visual skills married with ideas, they may or may not be art and they may, if they are art, be good art or bad art.

The problem is that a tendency exists to classify everything of a type as either art or not art when in fact, it may actually depend upon the purpose for which it, the product, had been made.

Someone makes a print for a classroom wall as an example of how a particular plant looks in its natural environment. Is that art? Another time, that same picture is placed within an exhibition. Is it then art? Does the place where it's being shown create the art, if it exists at all?

The volume of hot air that we have collectively blown here on this topic over the years makes further comment pointless.

;-)

Rob C
Title: Re: Is this picture art? Or is it artistic?
Post by: jalcocer on February 02, 2012, 03:12:12 pm
I think it all depends on the eye of the observer, I've found sometimes in my local galleries work that for most people can be horrendous and classified as nothing out of the ordinary, some times even as junk, but still placed in there as art, so I guess this is one of those subjects where there is no correct answer and can be discussed for ages with good points on either side of the equation.

This world is filled with people with different perspectives about everything, some may have the same perspective or opinion about something, and some may not. So while some may find this one as art, some artistic, some others may not even like it. But hey, that's part of the adventure of being alive :)
Title: Re: Is this picture art? Or is it artistic?
Post by: fotometria gr on February 02, 2012, 06:24:11 pm
I think it all depends on the eye of the observer, I've found sometimes in my local galleries work that for most people can be horrendous and classified as nothing out of the ordinary, some times even as junk, but still placed in there as art, so I guess this is one of those subjects where there is no correct answer and can be discussed for ages with good points on either side of the equation.

This world is filled with people with different perspectives about everything, some may have the same perspective or opinion about something, and some may not. So while some may find this one as art, some artistic, some others may not even like it. But hey, that's part of the adventure of being alive :)
Art is not a "democratical action", it's rather an "elitistic" one..., this simply means that is not a matter of majority or minority acceptance, it's rather a kind of mind acceptance. Suddenly ...this applies to minorities only (through history), but it's the economical system we live that determines its value, not the ones that appreciate it..., yet it's the only possible way for a "real life". Regards, Theodoros.
Title: Re: Is this picture art? Or is it artistic?
Post by: brandtb on March 16, 2012, 05:17:59 pm
Some of the below from a recent post...

Is it art?   Well that is such a subjective question rarely ever answered satisfactorily (to me) in  
the photography world.  I once saw this on a photographers website...his quote was..."it is a fine  
art photograph because it sings". Sings? Well that's not terribly helpful is it...and just what  
exactly does that mean? Does it soar nimbly like the sublime Queen of the Night aria from Mozart's "The Magic Flute", or is it more like a croaking recitative from a fat toothy mountain troll from an imaginary opera by Edvard Grieg. I suppose that you might have to be a musician to really know. (I happened to have a degree in Applied Music so it comes a little easier to me)

In my years living in New York City, I've been fortunate to be aquainted  
with a number of people in the upper levels of the fine art world (Gagosian etc.) - both gallerists,  
curators, and artists...my wife as well is an artist who studied painting at Bennington College. The  
standard maxim is..."it IS art...if you intended to make art".  I've always found this useful.

Once you've settled on the above (or not) - then there is the question of whether others consider your work art...and that is an entirely subjective world which may provide answers (or not)...there will always be as many opinions as there are...well...songs.

(btw I really like the image a lot...I remember sitting at a long dinner one night years ago next to William Wegman and we talked and talked about his work...and his work is considered by a lot of people as...well you know)
Title: Re: Is this picture art? Or is it artistic?
Post by: PeterAit on March 16, 2012, 05:40:24 pm
Photos of pets are never art, they cannot be, it is totally impossible. Period, end of debate.
Title: Re: Is this picture art? Or is it artistic?
Post by: DanLehman on March 26, 2012, 11:41:12 pm
My buddy, [who's] an engineer by trade and an accomplished amateur photog by night,
says that photography is not art.

Hmmm, I'm curious about why he thinks this
--and what he considers to be art.

How about "photorealism" --rendered (ultimately) by painting
(the final stroke), albeit with a photo (presumably --else it's
magic!) in the process.
What (which) is Richard Estes's work?

www.escapeintolife.com/artist-watch/richard-estes/

(I'm guessing that his brushes' dynamic range exceeds
that of any camera's.)

--dl*
====
Title: Re: Is this picture art? Or is it artistic?
Post by: Tony Jay on March 28, 2012, 03:14:55 am
Obviously a lot of photographic images are shot with no artistic intent.
Those that are the question should be: As art are they any good?; not: does it qualify as art?

My $0.02 worth.

Tony Jay
Title: Re: Is this picture art? Or is it artistic?
Post by: popnfresh on March 28, 2012, 07:03:24 pm
Is it art? Of course it is. So are paintings of Elvis on black velvet and the crayon drawings I made when I was 5.

Is it art I would put on my wall? Not in a million years.
Title: Re: Is this picture art? Or is it artistic?
Post by: petermfiore on March 28, 2012, 08:54:04 pm
Those are  art work not works of art.
Title: Re: Is this picture art? Or is it artistic?
Post by: Tony Jay on March 28, 2012, 09:08:36 pm
Poetry in motion as it were!
Title: Re: Is this picture art? Or is it artistic?
Post by: BobDavid on March 29, 2012, 10:56:17 pm
Photos of pets are never art, they cannot be, it is totally impossible. Period, end of debate.

You are joking.
Title: Re: Is this picture art? Or is it artistic?
Post by: popnfresh on March 30, 2012, 01:17:58 pm
You are joking.
I think he must be. Art is in the eye of the beholder.
Title: Re: Is this picture art? Or is it artistic?
Post by: BobDavid on June 08, 2012, 09:09:10 pm
Now how about some cat photos?
Title: Re: Is this picture art? Or is it artistic?
Post by: Rob C on June 10, 2012, 05:48:35 am
We had twenty-three or twenty-five cats at one time, each with its own name and easily recognized. We also had our Alsabrador during that period, and big as she was, the cat's had her measure. 

Cat's have totally different personalities than do dogs, and they are as unique as are dogs. Dying kittens can break your heart as painfully as the dog that you have to take to the vet for the last time. Semi-wild cats can understand when you are attempting to help them and, to quite an extent, will tollerate your handling of them in that direction. The secret with these semies is to let them take the initiative. Our tribe began with two kittens abandoned by their mother. She led them along the edge of the garden and stopped when she saw our dog standing at the edge of the terrace, which is about a yard above ground level. She stared at it, and at us, and then she vanished as quietly as she had come, leaving her pair behind her. She just knew that they would survive with us but probably not with her. Anthropomorphism? Experience tells me not. There is a hell of a lot more communication going on between species than the casual might imagine.

There's also a helluva lot more sex going on with cats than you might imagine: how do you think we got to twenty-three or more?

Rob C
Title: Re: Is this picture art? Or is it artistic?
Post by: Tony Jay on June 10, 2012, 06:30:43 am
Rob you simply can't go on squandering the family silver like this.
Wonderfully related tail, pardon tale.

Regards

Tony Jay
Title: Re: Is this picture art? Or is it artistic?
Post by: Rob C on June 10, 2012, 09:24:30 am
Rob you simply can't go on squandering the family silver like this.
Wonderfully related tail, pardon tale.

Regards

Tony Jay



That's what my wife thought, too: after a while we gave up on buying cat food and discovered that the local butchers had a frozen product that consisted of scraps of meat minced up with fat and other meat side-products. We used to buy this by the kilo and Ann would cook paella pans of it along with rice. This stank to high heavens, and must have been partly why the neighbours tended to eat out a lot at lunchtime... the dangerous part was that once we'd split the bulk onto two large, separate plates, I had the duty of depositing these onto the grass. The cats, of course, had smelled it all along with the neighbours, and it was a bit nerve-wracking delivering the stuff with excited amimals leaping up and down, claws well out.

Interestingly, whenever it was the kitten season, these tiny creatures would be allowed first go at both plates whilst the adult felines held back. Codes of honour exist amongst animals, too, and that's without tutoring, mentoring or going on workshops. No wonder I'm convinced it's all in the genes.

However, all this didn't have a happy end. Every community meeting there would be understandable complaints about the cats, but nobody wanted them removed whilst they or their kids were here on holiday... in the end, we were away on a shoot for a couple of weeks and when we got back we discovered that there were only two males left: both had been neutered, and the rest poisoned, yes, poisoned by a self-declared animal lover and another owner in the community.

;-(

Rob C

P.S. I've sometimes wondered what that frozen product was originally meant to service; tourist restaurants, hamburger joints?
Title: Re: Is this picture art? Or is it artistic?
Post by: canon3 on July 26, 2012, 02:02:22 pm
I think he must be. Art is in the eye of the beholder.

well said, that is true some people will say its art others will say its nothing but tow dogs.
Title: Re: Is this picture art? Or is it artistic?
Post by: Ellis Vener on July 28, 2012, 09:30:00 pm
All photographs, paintings, drawings, sketches, sculpture, poetry, music, and dance  are art. Whether  the piece in question is  emotionally, intellectually, and aesthetically engaging art  that makes me curious and wanting to see more, or leaves me feeling indifferent to it is another question.

Do I think this single photograph of the two dogs is good art? It is good in the commercial and shallow sense. It is a well made photograph that captures and communicates an instant in the lives of the two dogs but it doesn't really engage me very deeply. If they are your dogs or you are partial to the breeds of the dogs depicted you will likely feel differently.

The argument about whether photography is an art form is a curious one. Why should it not be considered a form of art? Because machines are involved? A violin and a piano are also machines. 
Is it because it can be theoretically reproduced ad infinitum? If so does that mean any musical performance  music that has been recorded, any story or poem that has been put into type or distributed over the internet, any movie that has been reproduced means that the particular piece loses its status as art?

In the end whether a work of art is perceived as Art is entirely dependent on the person who encounters it, and that depends on who they are, what they know, and how they live their lives.
Title: Re: Is this picture art? Or is it artistic?
Post by: bill t. on July 29, 2012, 12:07:56 am
These simple stickers on the back of each piece will save your customers a lot of anxiety.


Title: Re: Is this picture art? Or is it artistic?
Post by: Justan on July 29, 2012, 10:35:51 am
^Perfect!^
Title: Re: Is this picture art? Or is it artistic?
Post by: Ellis Vener on July 29, 2012, 11:00:52 am
Biil That is excellent!